S11.E04: Baby

[roctavia]

I think the "in the nick of time" change purse/hair pin/machete was meant to be a wink that Baby takes care of Dean.

My favorite line: "Where's the rest of the beer?"

I thought the whole thing was great.

 

Definitely... like Baby was collecting things knowing that Dean was going to need them... At least that's the impression I thought we were supposed to get from all of the stuff going missing or being shown disappearing into the car.

 

This episode was a lot of fun once you adjusted to the 'perspective of the car'.

[SueB]

Have you met us?! - I loved that line and I think that is the point of the Sam in the backseat scene:

 

I know but I didn't consider that as normal!Sam behavior since he'd been emboldened by demon blood. Same for when he was soulless.

Either way,I don't think the Sam we have right now, would do it in Dean's car.

 

Actually, I think this is a sign Sam is changing.  He still did Sam things - asked for her number, got a blanket to cover them up as they were getting busy.  But it was Piper who went into it as totally a one night stand (I'm presuming Sam asked for her number in the morning).  I think they had a great conversation in the diner (typical Sam), it got romantic and she was off-duty, she wanted to get busy right then and he figured Dean wasn't using the car so... why the heck not.  As he said, he needed that and she apparently did too.  It was probably the best choice given the time of night.

 

And then there's the followup where Dean is talking about Sam losing his virginity.  Which is obviously Dean just having fun... but he's also essentially encouraging Sam to give up any relationship thoughts ever ("Have you met us?!").  So (excluding Kara due to potential demon blood influence), Piper was apparently Sam's first one night stand in the backseat of the Impala.  Hence, the virgin comment.  He even played "Night Moves".  IDK... I guess it makes sense in a totally SAD AND DEPRESSING WAY (as PTV's review suggests).  This is Dean encouraging living for the now.  I think it's a sign Dean (who still remains mystified that he's made it to this age), is convinced now more than ever that they are going out Butch and Sundance style and probably soon in this fight against the Darkness.  Dean used to want Sam to have the apple-pie life.  But I think, after S9-10, he's kinda given up on that for Sam as well. Maybe if Kevin and Charlie hadn't died he would still see some light at the end of the tunnel for Sam. But I think Dean knows they're living until they are tossed into the Empty - and he's accepted that Sam is going to be with him (S8 finale "you and me, come what may").  

 

Finally, we've got Sam apparently starting to embrace this new philosophy as he flirts up the mini-mart attendant while Dean gets into a brawl with the ghoulpire soccer mom.  When was the last time we saw Sam (with a soul) give a girl the "hey, how ya doing" flirty body vibe that Sam had in that store?  I'm not saying that Sam's going to go horn-dog on us.  But sometimes when you do a thing, you kinda want to do it again.  Piper is in the box of "good times memories" for Sam.  And I think he's okay with that.  

 

As for Dean's night -- I can't believe drinking too much comes under the category of "mistakes were made".  He does that most nights.  So...I presume we're left to fill in the blank with whatever comes to mind.  Whatever the mistakes were, he didn't seem to fussed about it.  As you said - Zen!Dean.  

 

Coda: Regarding Bob Seger.  He is the ROAD KING of Rock and Roll and One Night Stands:

-Against The Wind

- Her Strut
- Hollywood Nights
- Katmandu
- Lookin' Back
- Mainstreet
- Night Moves
- Old Time Rock And Roll
- Ramblin' Gamblin' Man
- Rock And Roll Never Forgets

- Still The Same
- The Fire Down Below
- Turn The Page
- We've Got Tonight

This is Dean.  Substitute hunter vs musician for motivation and Bob could be singing about Dean Winchester.  

[catrox14]

I'm going to have to re-watch the episode and figure out why I felt....I dunno a bit disappointed.  Perhaps my enjoyment level was reduced significantly from outset with having to see those damn toy soldiers which triggered my "Forever Stack o Bittercakes" about Swan Song.   I thought it had some wonderful moments, like the head in the cooler and Dean's fight and reverse 180 and the sudden appearance of not!John and the conversation between Sam and Dean in the car, even though I have a few issues with the conversation itself it was nice to have it.

 

As to the conversation in the car.  This was another Pod!Dean thing for me (as in the Invasion of the Body Snatchers pod people thing).  So Sam reveals that he was infected with this darkness thing and could have died but it's all good now and Dean just sits there not outwardly or really all that inwardly upset by the idea that Sam could have died? Maybe I missed some nuance in the performance I'll see upon rewatch.

 

He just kind of acknowledges it happened and seems annoyed but there is not even a voice raised angry "Dammit Sam!" He didn't follow up with any questions about how being infected made Sam feel or any details that I would think Dean would typically ask about. He seemed more interested in why Sam was praying vs anything else which seemed odd.

 

Interesting thing I caught upon rewatch was the joyrider saying "Spider caught a fly" which is what Frank said to Sam and Dean first met Frank in s7.

[Linderhill]

 

One reason I think this looks real to me is that Jensen is blinking with each trigger pull. I'm also wondering if that is dust being kicked up from bullets hitting the dirt vs smoke from the gun or both.  Either way it looked pretty amazing.

Even when shooting blanks or simunitions (real bullets are replaced by a paint capsule in real round fired thru real weapons) there is still a (small) explosion caused by the gun powder igniting and propelling the round thru the barrel of the gun.  Its also the work of a really good EFX team to make it all look real.  The show Justified had a great scene at the end of the series with a shoot off.  Someone made a gif of the scene and you can see the blow back of both weapons the and the "bullets" impacting).

 

 

Regarding Bob Seger.  He is the ROAD KING of Rock and Roll and One Night Stands:

Simply those songs alone would make Seger appeal to Dean. 

 

I loved this episode!  my one nitpick was the way the blood looked on the window -- too translucent.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Sam And Dean Will Never Have Normal Relationships For So Many Reasons
The hunter problem is really the least of it.

[catrox14]

 

This is Dean.  Substitute hunter vs musician for motivation and Bob could be singing about Dean Winchester.

 

Yes, all those songs can be used to  describe Dean's life but that's not the same as having Dean himself say that Bob Seger is Dean's  philosopher of life, if you will, which is what this episode essentially did vs his lifetime commitment to Led Zeppelin.

 

FWIW, I seem to remember from an interview with either Robert Singer or Jeremy Carver, I forget which one, said his favorite artist is Bob Seger vs Eric Kripke's favorite band being Led Zeppelin. Make of that what you will.

 

Simply those songs alone would make Seger appeal to Dean.

 

It's interesting to me how differently viewers perceive what Dean would like or not like.

 

I don't think any of those songs would speak to Dean on some deeper level. But hey maybe Bob Seger will lead Dean to happiness. But to me, IMO Dean would rank Bob Seger as 'pseudo rock'  more than his hard rock like Dean has always enjoyed. I consider Taylor Swift to be an anomaly caused by Dean being  14 LOL.

 

"Long Black Road" seems like the most fitting song for Dean's life right now.  

Edited October 29, 2015 by catrox14

[txwatcher]

The wierd is what made this episode good. Baby is the constant in the Winchester universe. When I saw the title, I thought this would be the end for Baby. The writers pleasantly surprised me. KUDOS for figuring out the logistics of filming in a car. A shout out to one room plays?

[catrox14]

The wierd is what made this episode good. Baby is the constant in the Winchester universe. When I saw the title, I thought this would be the end for Baby. The writers pleasantly surprised me. KUDOS for figuring out the logistics of filming in a car. A shout out to one room plays?

 

Honestly, I have been fearing for Baby's demise.  I'm so happy they didn't kill her off.  And yes I agree that Baby is the Winchester's constant.  Yeah, I hope this episode gets some Emmy love for sound design and cinematography. They had to mount like 6 cameras on the dash for most of the scenes.  And I think one of the camera guys had to sit in the trunk for some of the filming. I'm really looking forward to a BTS on the making of this episode.

 

And I really really really really need to see a cut of the reverse 180 from outside the car from a distance.

Edited October 29, 2015 by catrox14

[Omegamom]

More pics of Jensen in short shorts, washing Baby, would be nice. ;-)

[catrox14]

just can't with the idea of Dean running around in short shorts. Just seems like a stupid joke that I don't get. I mean I want to see Dean in less clothing, but not that! Jensen wearing them on the gag reel? Yes I can see that because he's a dork.

 

But Dean? "It's a free bunker" does not suffice as to why Dean would don short shorts.  Skivvies, board shorts, NOTHING at all I would buy Dean wearing to wash the car before short shorts. LOL.

[GirlyGeek]

WOW, loved every freaking minute of it.  Old-school Supernatural feels, brother banter, singing in the car, and a good old hunt.  Hey! they actually saved people.

I think this is my favorite episode in... well at least a few seasons.  In terms of being good from start to finish.  And I can't recall the last time I wanted to rematch an episode right after 1st viewing.  There were some scenes where I was legitimately covering my mouth not sure what was gonna happen, and then Dean's dream totally made me get something in my eye, all the brother talks and them actually liking each other's company... its been too long.  It was really nice.

 

Great MOTW, too.  Of course I thought a great crossover moment was missed with the WerePire Hybrids (The Originals?!), but I'll let it slide ;)

I, too, thought it was weird that Dean called him Samuel and then Sam said "its Sam" when it used to be his answer to when Dean called him "Sammy".  Was it a purposeful comment (made slightly in jest) on Dean no longer seeing Sam as 'little brother needing protection'?  Not sure, but it threw me for a second... and now I think I like it.

 

Great episode, beginning to end.  Love

edited to add:
I forgot to mention, there were moments in the car (1st half) where I was having trouble differentiating between Sam and JP, and even some of Dean's faces looked a little like Jensen peeking through.  It sounds dumb, but when we see them laughing and having fun, its on outtakes and such... maybe its just weird cause I don't remember what Sam or Dean look like having a good time together?

[catrox14]

Re the head in the cooler.  I cannot believe ...and am sorely disappointed that Dean did not make the

 

"What's in the boooooxxx" joke.

 

 

I mean come on! Yeah he made that joke back in what s4, but hell they called back to ERRYTHING from early seasons and they even went back to the 'I shot the sheriff' joke.  Come on show.

 

edited to add:
 

I forgot to mention, there were moments in the car (1st half) where I was having trouble differentiating between Sam and JP, and even some of Dean's faces looked a little like Jensen peeking through.  It sounds dumb, but when we see them laughing and having fun, its on outtakes and such... maybe its just weird cause I don't remember what Sam or Dean look like having a good time together?

 

 

 

I actually had a couple of those moments myself. Mostly with Jared. Like I know they did ad-lib some things but yeah I kind of felt that way too at times.  I know the scene when they are eating burritos and they got the lens flare was actually from them setting up. The part when Sam tries to grab the steering wheel I thought was totally Jared not Sam LOL. I did think Dean kissing Baby and saying thank you was really a Jensen moment because it took him three tries to get the reverse 180 down.

Edited October 29, 2015 by catrox14

[kricka]

Loved it. Those are the beautiful boys I love, and seeing it all from the perspective of Baby gave us some insight into Sam and Dean's relationship that we don't always get to see. THANK GOD Sam finally confessed about being smoked. I thought the choice of Young John was a good one, as someone else mentioned, putting Sammy in an uncomfortable position, keeping him off kilter about what may or may not have happened. 

 

Robbie Thompson gets the way I see these guys, and having Castiel be doofy Castiel on the phone made me super happy. 

[missbonnie]

Behind the Scenes factoid: parts for a '67 Impala cost more because it's become a collector's items due to #Supernatural. Drives the car master batty.

Oh I'm sure that it does. I wonder how many of these Impala's this show has went through in 11 years. I would kill to own one myself.

[bethy]

Re the head in the cooler.  I cannot believe ...and am sorely disappointed that Dean did not make the

 

"What's in the boooooxxx" joke.

 

 

You're right. Dean IS a pod person this year. No way he would have let that one pass. No. Way. 

 

I actually said it in my head with Dean's attempt to mimic Brad Pitt.

Edited October 29, 2015 by bethy

[SueB]

 

"It's a free bunker"

I gotta ask, cause I'm slow on the uptake sometimes.  Does this mean anything? Other than he's free to do what he wants in the bunker?

[DittyDotDot]

Hello there show, I feel like I haven't seen you in such a very long time. 

 

IMO, the writing was the weak spot here--I could've done with less dialogue and more just driving around while silent or singing or eating burgers; all the coincidences seemed way overplayed and there where some definite out-of-character moments for both Sam and Dean, IMO--but a minor nitpick in an otherwise mostly imaginative episode. It's been ever so long since I've felt like I could use the word creative when talking about this show.

 

The obvious care and effort put in to pulling off the camera work, fight scenes and look of the episode makes me hope they have a featurette on the DVDs on how they shot this episode. I so do like to know how things work.

 

Sam has a Netflix ready TV in the Bunker? That's new LOL.

 

Sam had a TV in his room back in Slumber Party when they were watching Game of Thrones with Charlie. I have no idea if it's Netflix ready or not, but it looked modern enough that it could be. 

[catrox14]

 

Sam had a TV in his room back in Slumber Party when they were watching Game of Thrones with Charlie. I have no idea if it's Netflix ready or not, but it looked modern enough that it could be.

 

Oh it wasn't a criticism, I just thought it funny. Dean always seemed like more of the Netflix TV having type.

I gotta ask, cause I'm slow on the uptake sometimes.  Does this mean anything? Other than he's free to do what he wants in the bunker?

 

Not as far as I know. I think it was just Dean saying "It's a free world! I can do what I want! I'm an adult!" or something. LOL

[DittyDotDot]

Oh it wasn't a criticism, I just thought it funny. Dean always seemed like more of the Netflix TV having type.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't think it was a criticism. I thought you were asking a legitimate question. TBH, I thought it was weird Sam had a TV--of all things--and basically nothing else in his room anyway. I agree, it would've made more sense for it to have been Dean's, but the show does love it's convenient contrivances, so...

[catrox14]

I figure they didn't have Cas hang out in Dean's bedroom so they can keep stalling the Destiel or something. LOL. Can you imagine the fanfic that would have come out of that!?

[AwesomO4000]

It was played for laughs but I really did roll my eyes because I just thought, "Nah, man. Sam wouldn't have sex in public much less in DEAN's car".

 

It kind of pissed me off because it felt like Sam having sex in Dean's car is infringing on something that was pretty much Dean's thing. Yes,  I get that Dean was happy for Sam to have gotten laid but I really think he would have been indignant with a "Reallly?? In MY car?" after the girl left.

 

A few thoughts on this 1) As Sam says at the end of the episode. For him now, the car is pretty much home. It's Dean's car, but considering Dean doesn't generally like Sam having his own car - and was actually happy that Sam's Prius (?) got smashed - I think he's pretty much going to have to share Baby. And this isn't the first time in recent seasons we've seen Sam also show affection towards Baby.  At the end of "Reichenbach" Sam was fairly disturbed that DemonDean had let Baby become a mess, and couldn't believe Dean said "it's just a car." 2) Sam put a blanket down on Baby's seat, so there's that 3) Sam wasn't about to take off with Baby to find a hotel - if he even had the keys which I'm suspecting Dean had - and leave Dean carless - and depending on the potential motels in the area, maybe the car was a better option than a walk to a dive hotel (at least the Impala would be potentially exciting/daring) 4) In my headcanon - since Sam went to a diner to eat, and it probably had a big front window - Piper saw the Impala, Sam saw Piper see the Impala, and mentioned it was his/theirs as part of his flirtation, and Piper wanted to do it in the car. Not that Sam wouldn't necessarily - see Sam and Kara in the office - but logistically it might be a little cramped. But if Piper asked, Sam could entirely be persuaded I think. So he might be a little awkward at first - which would explain that and the blanket* - but he'd still go along with it and be happy he did in the end. So that's my theory of how Sam ended up with Piper in the back seat of the car.

 

* Which I'm betting was part Sam "being ever the gentleman" and part his being respectful of Dean's Baby.

I think the "in the nick of time" change purse/hair pin/machete was meant to be a wink that Baby takes care of Dean.

 

That was my take as well. It would seem difficult to me lose a purse in a car, and that hairpin didn't seem that "hidden." I think it was a nod to Baby working her magic so that Dean would have what he needed... or a supernatural force of some kind working through Baby.

 

"Long Black Road" seems like the most fitting song for Dean's life right now.  

 

I love ELO - their 1978 greatest hits is often one of my road trip selections - but Dean would entirely make fun of me for listening to them.

 

 

just can't with the idea of Dean running around in short shorts. Just seems like a stupid joke that I don't get. I mean I want to see Dean in less clothing, but not that! Jensen wearing them on the gag reel? Yes I can see that because he's a dork.

 

But Dean? "It's a free bunker" does not suffice as to why Dean would don short shorts.  Skivvies, board shorts, NOTHING at all I would buy Dean wearing to wash the car before short shorts. LOL.

 

I thought Sam just said shorts. Considering that Dean "doesn't do shorts" I would think that would be a legitimate question on Sam's part. He might not even have known Dean owned a pair of shorts... Also sometimes men's underwear was called "shorts" in our house (short for "undershorts"), so underwear might've been an option. Or sleep shorts; since I think at one point we saw Dean sleeping in some kind of sweatshirt type shorts - which now if he pulled out an old pair, might fit him more like short shorts. I'll have to rewatch, but I didn't think Sam said short shorts.

 

Oh it wasn't a criticism, I just thought it funny. Dean always seemed like more of the Netflix TV having type.

 

I'm of two minds about this, because Dean for some things - like his cassette tapes - does seem to be a bit of a "purist." I could see him insisting on having DVDs - which he could also potentially watch on his computer if he wanted. And as many times as he wanted - such as the many many times he must've watched those Clint Eastwood movies. I could actually see him making fun of Sam with Netflix - "that's for weird, arty movies and stuff," but then secretly enjoying "accidentally" walking by and ending up watching Game of Thrones with Sam and laughing about spilling popcorn on Sam's bed.

 

But I can't be sure about that, because I don't have Netflix, and I myself tend to be a DVD person. (Hell, I still have a VCR. That I use. To tape shows.), so I admit to not knowing much about Netflix.

 

TBH, I thought it was weird Sam had a TV--of all things--and basically nothing else in his room anyway. I agree, it would've made more sense for it to have been Dean's, but the show does love it's convenient contrivances, so...

 

Habit? They spent so much time in motels - likely most with TV's in them - that maybe Sam is used to having a TV to fall asleep to. After being with my hubby so many years, I picked up his running fan to sleep to habit. So much so that when we travel, I have a 6 inch metal fan to put in my bag so we can have a fan for noise when we travel. I don't sleep very well without one now. Without that white noise, I hear all the house or hotel noises - the ice machine, the neighbor's dog barking, the hotel elevator, the hotel mini-fridge, etc. - and it keeps me awake sometimes. That little fan is a huge convenience... and hubby is so thankful every time I bring it.

[mertensia]

I thought the episode was really very good and I liked that the Darkness being unleashed even has monsters worried.

Never thought I'd hear Judy Collins on Supernatural!

Loved Dean being up on the Bible- and being rightfully skeptically of the visions. For all he knows Sam's visions are coming from the Darkness too.

I wonder if Dean thinks healing him will somehow expose Castiel to the Darkness? Taint Cas?

[catrox14]

Re Dean's shorts.

Jensen and Jared both commented on them being short shorts. Jared said they showed more thigh than he cared to see.

[millennium]

Story wasn't as tight as it might have been, but who's complaining?  I've long held that Night Moves is the best rock song ever made, so that was gratifying.   Definitely was an old school feel to this episode.

 

Maybe God is listening -- there was no Crowley in this episode and no Cas on screen!   Praise be!

 

I propose turning Cass into a 21st-century KITT, never again to appear on screen, only to be a voice presence that dispenses information and advice while Sam and Dean are in the field.

[AwesomO4000]

Re Dean's shorts.

Jensen and Jared both commented on them being short shorts. Jared said they showed more thigh than he cared to see.

 

But we didn't see them onscreen. And Sam said shorts, not short shorts... and he didn't say "Dude, you expecting some dollar bills in those things" or "Dude, too much skin. You're gonna blind me" or "Dude, really?" in mock disgust or any other comment indicating they were anything but normal shorts - which generally Dean doesn't wear, so I could imagine short shorts would really be begging for some serious brotherly ribbing. So for me what Jensen wore and Jared saw doesn't necessarily equal what Dean wore and Sam saw.

 

Without anything onscreen to say otherwise, my canon can be regular shorts, and the dialogue still makes sense for regular shorts, especially with Dean's canon "I don't do shorts." So for me, Dean was in regular shorts... or his flannel sleep shorts, which is actually the thing that makes the most sense to me, because why change to wash the car if you've got flannel sleep shorts on and it's a "free (country) bunker"?

 

And apparently Sam doesn't do shorts either, since he was in jeans while washing the car. (And SoullessSam even wears jeans to exercise - I'm gonna guess because he's just that vain. Regular Sam wears sweatpants if I remember correctly.)

[Irq16]

I agree with above poster that car takes care of them, it a home thats what they do.   I am not sure who Sam was talking to but I would tend to think Its Michael from Pit speaking with Sam (possibly under Gods orders).  Backup for this was Dean used an Angel Pin to escape from death and girl was specifically looking for it and her purse (who had the coin) Dean needed.  If thats not divine intervention its some next level things like Leviathans that know possible futures. Demon tablet is for sure important all thats going on as well.

 

I am sure its been said in other forums I think evidence points to they need Michael, and Lucifer to lock the darkness away again.   They are going to have to make some choices they dont like because they caused this.  Sam is going to say yes to Lucy again, and we will finally see Dean actually accept Michael or Dad might?  Michael would be more powerful with Dean as host.  Also I believe that Chuck the Prophet (who is WAY more than just a Prophet we all know, and boys dont know he is alive dont think cas knows this yet either.)  There is also a chance we will see Raphael again.  just because of the casa erotica started playing on same ep Sam prays.  Also Death said that it took God and the archangels to stop the darkness in the first place.  Megatron also said is really old magic like Lucy level....

 

Side note would Darkness get re-locked up if someone was cursed with the Mark of Cain again?  I think she would.  Some will have to bear the weight of the mark.  Thats where we will probably Dean and Sam becoming the Immortal protectors of the Darkness and keeping it bound possibly sharing the burden with others.

[Demented Daisy]

So, for those of you who read the Spec w/Spoilers thread, does this episode confirm my "Baby is like home base in a game of Tag" spec?  ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

I figure they didn't have Cas hang out in Dean's bedroom so they can keep stalling the Destiel or something. LOL. Can you imagine the fanfic that would have come out of that!?

 

 

Habit? They spent so much time in motels - likely most with TV's in them - that maybe Sam is used to having a TV to fall asleep to. After being with my hubby so many years, I picked up his running fan to sleep to habit. So much so that when we travel, I have a 6 inch metal fan to put in my bag so we can have a fan for noise when we travel. I don't sleep very well without one now. Without that white noise, I hear all the house or hotel noises - the ice machine, the neighbor's dog barking, the hotel elevator, the hotel mini-fridge, etc. - and it keeps me awake sometimes. That little fan is a huge convenience... and hubby is so thankful every time I bring it.

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I guess. I meant that I thought it was strange back in Slumber Party that he had a TV but not much else in the room.  It was a contrived convenience, IMO, because they needed a reason to be in Sam's room so Charlie could comment on how sparse the room was and Dean could say this was their home and so Sam could utter the "this isn't our home, it's where we work" bit. Seems like if Sam hadn't bothered with anything else, I would think he wouldn't have bothered with a TV either. Sam's made his room more his own now so it doesn't seem strange at all to me now nor have I even thought about it since Slumber Party.

 

Basically, I was just pointing out that the TV wasn't something new. Nothing more.

[Aeryn13]

I liked parts of this episode. Dean getting smart and badass moments was great.

 

Also, the dreaded "talk" thankfully turned out to be pretty largely inoffensive. I didn`t care about it but it didn`t make me stark raving mad either. So that`s a plus. Reminiscing over normal is just so whatever to me at this point. Everyone knows it`s not gonna happen while the show is going on so while I get that the characters would still occasionally have certain hopes and dreams, it`s been 11 years so I as a viewer just don`t care about it anymore. 

 

Was not happy with that vision crap. If it`s actually God, the writers have fallen over the cliff because that would be more Sueing than anyone in the history of ever. So this entire scene made me queasy. Hopefully it`s Lucifer or heck, Gabriel. 

 

The gimmick effect of the episode being centered on the car worked more or less. 

 

I just don`t really have an emotional investment anymore in lots of stuff this episode featured. Somewhere along the line the Impala became just a car to me. Back in Season 1 when it got T-boned, it was shocking and heartbreaking. And the brother`s relationship is so dead to me after everything that happened, they can paint a happy clown face on it for an episode all they want, this doesn`t even remotely get in the vicinity of what I would find necessary to satisfying or engaging writing.

 

In the end, compared to Fanfiction, I did like it better. Because I thought Fanfiction sucked all throughout, this one had some obnoxious stuff but also a very solid part. 

[Diane]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I guess. I meant that I thought it was strange back in Slumber Party that he had a TV but not much else in the room.  It was a contrived convenience, IMO, because they needed a reason to be in Sam's room so Charlie could comment on how sparse the room was and Dean could say this was their home and so Sam could utter the "this isn't our home, it's where we work" bit. Seems like if Sam hadn't bothered with anything else, I would think he wouldn't have bothered with a TV either. Sam's made his room more his own now so it doesn't seem strange at all to me now nor have I even thought about it since Slumber Party.

 

Basically, I was just pointing out that the TV wasn't something new. Nothing more.

I think the reason that Sam had the TV and not much else, is the bunker is not his home,  He wasn't excited to have a room like Dean was.  It's just a place to work and do research.  Dean was the one that nested and hung stuff and got the memory foam mattress, it was important to Dean, but never shown as important to Sam.  At least that is my take on it.  To Sam its like a hotel room, not much personal stuff.

[Omegamom]

Sam has never had a permanent home. The closest he came was with (sigh) Amelia, and that one was pretty damned short-lived, like, we move in, and, whoops, dead husband turns up alive that very same night. A TV does not a "my room" make...I'm trying to think what personal touches Sam could put in that said "Sam" to me, and I'm coming up blank.

[DittyDotDot]

Sorry, I seem to really not be clear somehow. I understand why Sam had a TV in Slumber Party, even though I thought it was a weird contrivance of the plot at the time--I get it, I do, I really, really do. No explanations are needed. 

 

I was just answering catrox's question as to whether it was new or not. Which apparently she wasn't asking anyway and I misunderstood.

[Diane]

Sorry, I seem to really not be clear somehow. I understand why Sam had a TV in Slumber Party, even though I thought it was a weird contrivance of the plot at the time--I get it, I do, I really, really do. No explanations are needed. 

 

I was just answering catrox's question as to whether it was new or not. Which apparently she wasn't asking anyway and I misunderstood.

Sorry, my bad.

[DittyDotDot]

No worries, i just wanted to nip it in the bud before everything derailed. I've obviously been hanging around the Supernatural boards for too long.

[Omegamom]

My comment was more to catrox, I think. Mainly, my point, when you think about it, is it's sad how pared down Sam's life is. Baby really *is* home to him, the most permanent physical feature in his life.

'Scuse me while I go off and have a weep fest for the boys...

[Jediknight]

I don't think any of those songs would speak to Dean on some deeper level. But hey maybe Bob Seger will lead Dean to happiness. But to me, IMO Dean would rank Bob Seger as 'pseudo rock'  more than his hard rock like Dean has always enjoyed. I consider Taylor Swift to be an anomaly caused by Dean being  14 LOL.

 

"Long Black Road" seems like the most fitting song for Dean's life right now.  

Dean also belted out REO Speedwagon in season 2, and somehow Cas knew the words to "Believe It or Not", which I'm guessing he would have picked up from Dean.  Also I say this as a Def Leppard fan, Def Leppard isn't exactly hard rock.

[catrox14]

But we didn't see them onscreen. And Sam said shorts, not short shorts... and he didn't say "Dude, you expecting some dollar bills in those things" or "Dude, too much skin. You're gonna blind me" or "Dude, really?" in mock disgust or any other comment indicating they were anything but normal shorts - which generally Dean doesn't wear, so I could imagine short shorts would really be begging for some serious brotherly ribbing. So for me what Jensen wore and Jared saw doesn't necessarily equal what Dean wore and Sam saw.

 

Without anything onscreen to say otherwise, my canon can be regular shorts, and the dialogue still makes sense for regular shorts, especially with Dean's canon "I don't do shorts." So for me, Dean was in regular shorts... or his flannel sleep shorts, which is actually the thing that makes the most sense to me, because why change to wash the car if you've got flannel sleep shorts on and it's a "free (country) bunker"?

 

I think Dean wearing shorts is not at all a common or expected thing. He said back in s1  'Oh honey I don't do shorts'. And the only other time Dean was in shorts was when he was the undercover gym teacher and whilst unconscious was put into  Lederhosen by Dracula. Why have Sam even say "Dude, what's with the shorts?" if it's just normal shorts.

FWIW, there is a picture of Jensen in the short shorts that was posted by a crew member to instagram so we know that it exists.

But yes, you are correct, it never happened on camera so it's not canon that it was short shorts.

As to Sam and the Impala.

My point was really more that I am defensive about the writers putting Sam into Dean's milieu, for lack of a better word. I don't even care how it came about. The fact that it came about at all pisses me off, because it's the ONE THING Dean has had throughout the show that was definably HIS. He lived in that car more than Sam because he was hunting without Sam for those years Sam was in college.  Sam understood and respected that Baby was Dean's car and knew those boundaries. Demon!Dean neglecting the Impala was not about Sam caring about the car, it was to show how far gone Demon!Dean was.

 

I never felt that Sam had any real connection to the car other than as honoring Dean in death. Dean told Sam to take care of her when he went to Hell. Then Sam took care of Baby, because he didn't know what else to do after Dean went missing. It was the attachment to Dean just like it was with Dean as an attachment to John, but once John bitched about how Dean took care of it, that was when it truly became Dean's car. Dean didn't need the attachment to John anymore. 

 

So, why now? Why have Sam have sex in Dean's car? Horny reasons aside? There is more to this episode IMO than meets the eye.

[catrox14]

My comment was more to catrox, I think. Mainly, my point, when you think about it, is it's sad how pared down Sam's life is. Baby really *is* home to him, the most permanent physical feature in his life.

'Scuse me while I go off and have a weep fest for the boys...

 

The thing is that Sam has kind of always known that home was the car. I mean isn't that what the whole speech in Swan Song was about? That both boys considered it home...even though it's really Dean's car? (Sorry, if I offend anyone but I do consider that Dean's car no matter how many times Sam as BabySat her when Dean was in Hell or Purgatory see my prior comment).

 

I had a thought upon rewatching last night that showing the boys in the car separated by the car seat was foreshadowing Lucifer and Michael in the cage...side by side. 

[AwesomO4000]

I think Dean wearing shorts is not at all a common or expected thing. He said back in s1  'Oh honey I don't do shorts'. And the only other time Dean was in shorts was when he was the undercover gym teacher and whilst unconscious was put into  Lederhosen by Dracula. Why have Sam even say "Dude, what's with the shorts?" if it's just normal shorts.

 

I think because of exactly what you said - Dean wearing shorts isn't at all an expected thing. Even when Dean had to wear them in his undercover stint as a gym teacher, Sam still said snarkily "Nice shorts."  He also teased Dean with being Hansel when he was in the lederhosen, so to me, Dean wearing shorts on purpose rather than being forced to wear them for some reason (or as sleep attire) would readily make Sam ask "What's with the shorts?" as in "You're wearing shorts? Voluntarily?"

 

As for the instagram photo - are we sure that's Jensen's butt? I thought Jensen's butt was a little more rounded than that. Maybe he's lost weight? Bummer (heh) as I personally rather like a bit of a booty (I'm also a leg gal).

 

 

As to Sam and the Impala.

My point was really more that I am defensive about the writers putting Sam into Dean's milieu, for lack of a better word. I don't even care how it came about. The fact that it came about at all pisses me off, because it's the ONE THING Dean has had throughout the show that was definably HIS. He lived in that car more than Sam because he was hunting without Sam for those years Sam was in college.  Sam understood and respected that Baby was Dean's car and knew those boundaries. Demon!Dean neglecting the Impala was not about Sam caring about the car, it was to show how far gone Demon!Dean was.

 

I never felt that Sam had any real connection to the car other than as honoring Dean in death. Dean told Sam to take care of her when he went to Hell. Then Sam took care of Baby, because he didn't know what else to do after Dean went missing. It was the attachment to Dean just like it was with Dean as an attachment to John, but once John bitched about how Dean took care of it, that was when it truly became Dean's car. Dean didn't need the attachment to John anymore. 

 

So, why now? Why have Sam have sex in Dean's car? Horny reasons aside? There is more to this episode IMO than meets the eye.

 

I see what you're saying. I just think that the writers have thrown the what is the characters' "milieu" out the window a while ago. Sam doesn't have a "thing" any more either - except for maybe his bitchface. It used to be Sam was the one who knew geeky facts and was the reader, but as was pointed out in this episode by Dean, he "reads" too, and he's almost as often shown to know the geeky facts now as Sam is. (They switch off). Dean also listens to "sappy" music. He also dreams of "normal." He also had a long term relationship (with Lisa). Etc. Generally the only thing Sam has is his gun - though as was noted last episode, even that was different. Sam didn't have an amulet. He didn't have a leather jacket. Only SoullessSam had his own car - for a short time anyway. Sam prefers to ride in Dean's car - which says something right there, in my opinion - and when given the opportunity, he ditches whatever replacement he's got at the time to join Dean back in Baby, even if they've had a disagreement. In contrast, Castiel has kept his pimpmoblie, and was even hurt that Sam would call it crappy (Well of course Sam did. It's not Baby.)

 

As for it meaning something - I think someone else here in this thread said it. It's maybe meaning that Sam is more embracing the life. He's trying to become the brother Dean has always wanted? Less hung up on relationships and less hung up in general? And Sam did still show some respect, I think... he did put down a blanket. Besides, Dean can't complain too much. He certainly enjoyed bopping into Sam's room last season to play merry mischief with Sam's stuff ; ) (I know, I know - Sam doesn't see it as home anyway). And Sam likely figured Dean wouldn't mind letting him borrow Baby to get laid. Especially since Dean's generally had an interest in Sam's sex life when they are on good terms - that's one of those things that lets me know that the brothers are "good"... when Dean's a little nosy about Sam's sex life. I like that about their relationship actually. It's a little inappropriate and yet awesome, in my opinion. (And there's enough canon for me to know that they share at least some details. Imo, there's little way Dean could've known/guessed about Sam's biting tendency, for example, unless they shared details at some point.) And Sam being all casual "that's my brother, Dean," and not freaking out - even though he did ask for a minute, so not entirely unSam-like - to me shows that Sam is trying to be what he said he wanted to be at the end of last season, a hunter, and that Dean was who he wanted to hunt with. And part of that is going with the flow along with Dean.

[SueB]

 

Sam's biting tendency

Sam bites? How did I miss this and when did Dean mention it?  Enquiring minds want to know....

[catrox14]

Dean also belted out REO Speedwagon in season 2, and somehow Cas knew the words to "Believe It or Not", which I'm guessing he would have picked up from Dean.  Also I say this as a Def Leppard fan, Def Leppard isn't exactly hard rock.

 

I'm not saying Dean doesn't enjoy Bob Seger. Or other types of music. What I am nitpicking the shit out of is this exchange.

 

Sam: "Is everything a Bob Seger song to you?"

Dean: 'Yes'. 

 

Since when? The show made the shift to use those songs as a narrative. But now they want me to believe that over the past 3 seasons, Dean is really all about Bob Seger at heart and not Led Zeppelin as the soundtrack of his life? Nah, man.  That's what's irking me. No one has to be irked with me :)

[Goldmoon]

I just realized that when Sam and Dean were head to toe with the seat barrier in between them it looked a lot like a Ying/Yang symbol.  That is all.

[DittyDotDot]

I'm not saying Dean doesn't enjoy Bob Seger. Or other types of music. What I am nitpicking the shit out of is this exchange.

 

Sam: "Is everything a Bob Seger song to you?"

Dean: 'Yes'. 

 

Since when? The show made the shift to use those songs as a narrative. But now they want me to believe that over the past 3 seasons, Dean is really all about Bob Seger at heart and not Led Zeppelin as the soundtrack of his life? Nah, man.  That's what's irking me. No one has to be irked with me :)

 

Personally, I think it's the shift in showrunner. Kripke loved Zeppelin, I think Carver must be more into lighter rock music...maybe he's more of a country fan even? In general the music selections have been lighter since he took over running the show, IMO.

[SueB]

I just realized that when Sam and Dean were head to toe with the seat barrier in between them it looked a lot like a Ying/Yang symbol.  That is all.

EVERTHING about that scene was juxtaposition. Sam's face is lit completely, Dean's is mostly shadow. Dean getting visions from The Darkness, Sam getting visions from maybe NOT the Darkness. And the way it's framed as side by side in a confined space... well, that's on purpose.  It has to be.  

[catrox14]

Personally, I think it's the shift in showrunner. Kripke loved Zeppelin, I think Carver must be more into lighter rock music...maybe he's more of a country fan even? In general the music selections have been lighter since he took over running the show, IMO.

 

Right, I mentioned that very thing a few posts upthread. 

 

I'm perfectly fine with the show using the music to highlight things about Dean, but I'm not okay with putting the words into a character's mouth without an explanation from the character's mouth. All I needed was a stupid line of dialogue that tells me why Dean shifted his lifetime commitment to something that had been so important to him.  I mean something as simple as

 

Sam: "Wow, really? I thought Zeppelin was your thing all this time"

Dean: 'Yeah well, things change". 

 

I would have rolled my eyes but I would have accepted it.

 

Anyway, that's my gripe. LOL

Edited October 30, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

No, no, I griped plenty about the shift in music back in S8. At some point I made my peace with it, but I understand the frustration. ;)

[SueB]

Did anyone else notice that the boys went at least 48hrs without a SHOWER.  It's implied that they never stayed in a motel because they were looking for suggestions. And they seemed to have gone to Aunt Mel's that day.  It's POSSIBLE that they checked in, had a shower and THEN headed over for food... but IDK.. why put on the same dirty shirts they slept in the night before if they went to a motel.  

 

Which means.... in addition to a busted front end, broken windows, ghoulpire and human blood... the boys also contributed some serious odors to the Impala this episode.  I doubt that bitty pine tree freshner could keep up.

[7kstar]

Right, I mentioned that very thing a few posts upthread. 

 

I'm perfectly fine with the show using the music to highlight things about Dean, but I'm not okay with putting the words into a character's mouth without an explanation from the character's mouth. All I needed was a stupid line of dialogue that tells me why Dean shifted his lifetime commitment to something that had been so important to him.  I mean something as simple as

 

Sam: "Wow, really? I thought Zeppelin was your thing all this time"

Dean: 'Yeah well, things change". 

 

I would have rolled my eyes but I would have accepted it.

 

Anyway, that's my gripe. LOL

For me, Dean has a wide range of music.  Not that he will admit to it.  I can see him liking Seger and Zeppelin.  I happen to like both.   I also love country, the newer stuff, 90's forward.  It could also be a budget thing.  It is music they can afford.  So it isn't a biggie for me. 

 

On the whole I'm not having any big expectations.  I don't expect much for the darkness story.  I don't expect a satisfying arch to the ending.  So I'm finding myself enjoying the show more.  I liked the attempt with the Baby story.  It has a new creative energy which could lead to something better down the road. 

 

EWWWWWW  on the boys not taking a shower...poor baby.

[AwesomO4000]

Sam bites? How did I miss this and when did Dean mention it?  Enquiring minds want to know....

 

My memory might have been faulty in regards to cause and effect, but the elements are there...

 

Dean insinuates it in "Shadow" with this phone exchange while Sam is on surveillance watching Meg:

 

Dean: [exposition about what he found out about Daevas] ... Now why don't you go up and give that girl a private strip-o-gram. *

Sam: Bite me.

Dean: No, bite her. Don't leave teeth marks though. [sam hangs up on Dean before he can elaborate further].

 

That Sam actually does bite during sex - and in the way that Dean suggested: not hard enough to leave teeth marks - we don't see until he sleeps with Madison, where both of them tend to get bitey, but Sam initiates it - first her bottom lip, then her ear and/or neck, then her cheek/face/jaw. It looks from Sam's expression when Madison bites that she bites a little harder than he does. Sam's into it though. Based on the angles, there might've been some biting in his first sex scene with Ruby, too, but that one's a bit more chaotic (If that's even possible) than Sam/Madison.

 

I think maybe you dislike the episode "Heart" (?) which might be the reason you missed the clearest examples of Sam's tendency to get bitey.

 

* In typical Dean interest in Sam's sex life. This happens more in the early seasons - see also Dean watching Sam/Sarah make out - when their relationship is better. When their relationship is strained, Dean isn't interested in Sam's romantic life, and even seems turned off and/or preachy about it. For example in season 4 when he told Sam "too much information" when Sam was relating his Ruby story and his almost indignance (and rudeness) when Dean found out about Sam and Kara. I don't recall if Dean showed any interest in Sam/Amelia, because I try not to remember much about the first half of season 8, but I'm guessing not, because again, strained relationship.

 

So I think this Dean interest - and even an "I'm proud of you" - is, for me, a throwback to season 1/2 times in their relationship. It didn't really click for me until this episode these differences in Dean's reaction, but seeing it again here, made me think back to when Dean used to be more like this with respect to Sam. The difference this time seems to be that Sam is less uptight about and even more accepting of Dean's "involvement." Maybe in a strange way, he missed it, too?

[AwesomO4000]

Did anyone else notice that the boys went at least 48hrs without a SHOWER.  It's implied that they never stayed in a motel because they were looking for suggestions. And they seemed to have gone to Aunt Mel's that day.  It's POSSIBLE that they checked in, had a shower and THEN headed over for food... but IDK.. why put on the same dirty shirts they slept in the night before if they went to a motel.  

 

Which means.... in addition to a busted front end, broken windows, ghoulpire and human blood... the boys also contributed some serious odors to the Impala this episode.  I doubt that bitty pine tree freshner could keep up.

 

EWWWWWW  on the boys not taking a shower...poor baby.

 

I would hope that they'd at least "freshen up" in various rest stops. Also with all of the traveling they do, they should at least know which truck and rest stops have areas to shower. One time hubby and I were on the road, we stopped to get gas at a gas station / rest stop / McDonald's that also had shower facilities. They appeared to be well visited, because there was an announcement letting those waiting know when and which shower facilities were ready for use, and the announcements were fairly constant. So the boys shouldn't have much of an excuse unless this is less of a thing in the Western states. And I also would think they wouldn't have much luck pretending to be FBI agents if they smelled unkempt.