Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Password]

I don't even know how Oliver can get more defeated. But Arrow will show me things. He's already a Debbie Downer, so being more defeated causes him to open up? Incredible.

Maybe it's a last resort.

[apinknightmare]

Well, Thea, Felicity, Diggle, Roy and Laurel are still alive, so I suppose he could get more defeated if one or more of them bit it. And maybe if everything he owns burns to ashes and like, someone manages to steal the remainder of his bank account. Then he could get his facial hair singed off for good measure. 

[JenMD]

There's a shot at just around 1:27 of what appears to be an unconscious Roy, perhaps pointing to it being him who bites it.  Or do you all think they wouldn't put that in a trailer?

[Password]

Don't go near the stubble! It keeps me holding on.

[apinknightmare]

There's a shot at just around 1:27 of what appears to be an unconscious Roy, perhaps pointing to it being him who bites it.  Or do you all think they wouldn't put that in a trailer?

 

Impossible to know. Surely they were aware of the speculation about Roy when they cut the trailer, so either they included him dying because they figure we'd think they'd never spoil such a thing, or they would because they're trolling bastards.

[Password]

Huh! If Felicity watches Oliver get arrested it'd be the second time someone she loves is taken in in front of her.

Who do you associate with Felicity?

[calliope1975]

Then he could get his facial hair singed off for good measure. 

 

Then we'll finally get the iconic goatee. BecauseComics!

[SleepDeprived]

Do you happen to remember who it is that rescues Laurel from the gunfire (I think) on the street? Is it Oliver or Nyssa? Seems like someone shot an arrow with a cable up to lift them.

 

It was Oliver as the Arrow grappling down to grab Laurel then back up away from the gunfire coming from Murmur (3x16 villain), firing from the back of a van. Or, that's what I remember, anyway.

[wonderwall]

I'm probably going to be in the minority but I kind of liked it. I wonder if the show will explain the turns though. Ray turning against the Arrow as well as Quentin. I hope so, and if they do then that would be awesome. If they don't that would be terrible and so blah. 

 

Also, I don't mind Felicity needing a hand if someone is physically hurting her. Felicity doesn't have any combat skills and the life she purposefully leads is dangerous. I don't think that makes her into the classic DiD. But that's just me. 

Then we'll finally get the iconic goatee. BecauseComics!

Stephen Amell is vehemently against this idea. God bless him

[statsgirl]

It looked like Oliver to me on that LQ clip.

 

Listening to the Paley panel again,  "she' s essentially turned her back on him emotionally, she like "I'm done".  What does that mean for Felicity, what does that mean for Team Arrow?" Emily replies that it shows how much she's been changing over the two seasons that "hell no, I'm not going to deal with someone emotionally whose only going to give half of your emotions  as a love interest    but she still cares deeply for him and is concerned about him going out" and "she explores other options because she does need that nourishment and love"

 

So there's nothing to suggest she's quitting Team Arrow, just talking about Ray as an alternative love interest because she's not getting what she needs from Oliver.

[DrSpaceman10]

To be honest, nothing about these next four episodes (16-19) sounds like something I really want to watch. I hope the show can turn around in the last few episodes like they did last season. 

 

As for Felicity potentially being a DiD, I get why they would want to hurt Felicity for Ray's development (because it parallels his fiancee getting killed and the fact that he couldn't stop it), but I don't see what it does for Felicity. I really wish they'd think about Felicity's development too.

[wonderwall]

I think the theory is that Ray is saying that ("stay away from her") to Oliver/the Arrow and not the cop because the little clips don't seem to match??? 

Edited March 15, 2015 by wonderwall

[looptab]

Then he could get his facial hair singed off for good measure. 

They'd better not do that. 

Anyway, IDK what this pseudo-journalists are talking about, I thought Stephen meant all this crap he is going through and subsequential introspectivity would lead eventually to him understanding he can't act as he has been acting for the past three years. 

 

My crazy theory: there is some sort of shape-shifter going around. He attacks Palmer as the Arrow, he mindfucks Oliver as Quentin, he gets captured as Roy. (I don't know why Roy of all people if the angle is to ruin Oliver, but whatever).

 

Laurel, why would you ever be in Central City? And why would you ever reveal your secret identity to a guy you just met?/SMH/

 

Finally, I think when Oliver Felicity and Diggle enter the Foundry they just find it messed up, not with Quentin waiting for them there.

Edited March 15, 2015 by looptab

[Sunshine]

If Roy is dying in 3.19, perhaps Oliver starts opening up to someone in 3.20 instead of shutting down all emotions like he did in 3.02 after Sara died.  MG did say he thought 3.20 would be the most emotional episode of the season.

[lemotomato]

I think the theory is that Ray is saying that ("stay away from her") to Oliver/the Arrow and not the cop because the little clips don't seem to match???

That's what it looks like to me too.

I agree with an earlier comment about how it's harder to remember the details of the Arrow sizzle reel as opposed to the one for Flash. I can't decide if it's because I'm totally not interested in the Ra's/let's keep torturing Oliver storyline, or if it's just not as well put together as the Flash one.

[HighHopes]

My crazy theory: there is some sort of shape-shifter going around. He attacks Palmer as the Arrow, he mindfucks Oliver as Quentin, he gets captured as Roy. (I don't know why Roy of all people if the angle is to ruin Oliver, but whatever).

 

OOH. Maybe that's part of the Flashback Virus too? (I know it has a name.. Omega? Do we know what it does yet?). It would explain how Shado is alive... she's not. It's just the shapeshifter/virus. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm afraid that one of the eleventy hundred game changers this season will be Arrow going full on balls to the wall with superpowers/crazy shit like shapeshifting.  That's fine on The Flash, where all of that was introduced immediately.  Here, it's going to feel like season four of Felicity where suddenly this reality based show was dealing in time travel.  Like, WTH?!

[catrox14]

 

My crazy theory: there is some sort of shape-shifter going around. He attacks Palmer as the Arrow, he mindfucks Oliver as Quentin, he gets captured as Roy. (I don't know why Roy of all people if the angle is to ruin Oliver, but whatever).

 

Oh gods! Yes. Let there be a shapeshifter and I'll have the excuse for the Arrow/SPN crossover. 

[catrox14]

I don't see how Oliver could be more introspective and defeated than he has been all along.  I mean short of him actually literally sitting there gazing at his own navel (which is a good enough reason for me to get his shirt off)....

 

The guy will be suicidal by then I would think.  Sheesh

[Starfish35]

It looks like Matt Mitovich edited his Flash article to clarify that Laurel is not actually crossing over to The Flash. The meeting between her and Cisco happens when he and Joe cross over to Arrow in the crossover we already knew about.

That makes a little more sense. I could see no reason whatsoever for Laurel to go over to The Flash.

[Password]

She must have quite a reputation by then if Cisco loves her.

[Morrigan2575]

So, I guess Matt M got clarification from one of the EPs in a post panel interview?

Edited March 15, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

What if Ray only goes after Arrow, suit to suit and they hash it out and come to terms because Felicity would step between them?

What if Ra's takes a page from Slade's playbook and drops a truth bomb on Quentin about the identity of Arrow after having sullied his rep? Maybe Ray isn't the one to sic the police on Team Arrow. Ra's and Quentin do get scenes together, right?

[MarDelSol]

There's a shot at just around 1:27 of what appears to be an unconscious Roy, perhaps pointing to it being him who bites it.  Or do you all think they wouldn't put that in a trailer?

Unless you're referring to something else I don't see, that's Malcolm. You can see it in the next episode's preview

[JenMD]

She must have quite a reputation by then if Cisco loves her.

Sure, but wouldn't it be mostly Sara's reputation?  (I haven't seen the clip, so I don't know how it comes off...) 

 

Unless you're referring to something else I don't see, that's Malcolm. You can see it in the next episode's preview

 

Ah, thanks!  That fuzzy, tilted shot from the panel last night so doesn't look like Malcolm to me, but that's definitely him.  Appreciate the clarification.

[apinknightmare]

Sure, but wouldn't it be mostly Sara's reputation?  (I haven't seen the clip, so I don't know how it comes off...) 

 

No - Cisco knows Sara's dead. Caitlyn and Felicity have discussed the "Canary's murder" in front of him. If he says he loves Black Canary, then he's talking about Laurel. 

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[JenMD]

I completely forgot the Flash folks were involved in Sara's murder investigation.  That seems like ages ago.  Thanks for the reminder, apinknightmare.

[tarotx]

It will just be that she accepts being a named costumed hero. His thing is naming heros and villains.

[Belinea]

How is Shado alive? Is it another hallucination inside a flashback? Because looking back on S2 and how Oliver saw her ghost and in his nightmares and even in his speech to Slade about how he remembers her, there was nothing that might have indicated that she survived her injuries in any sort of way. Maybe that is just me but I thought she was dead dead. 

 

I don't know how much time Felicity and Ray have to grow closer and closer...Maybe that was partially in retroperspective. Because you have 3x16 and then Ray already goes after Oliver in 3x17. (Which is dumb on so many levels. Everybody who was helping Oliver could be an accessory to murder. His girlfriend inlcuded) Since people will supposedly like this episode, I choose to believe that Felicity won't leave Oliver behind completely. Then Ray, because of his awesomeness, gets himself seriously injured right away. Probably because of the suit. Then in 1x18 of the Flash he needs help with it. In 3x19 he already has his identity crises and Felicity gets attacked. Oliver will deal with that and the fact the Lance will (probably) try to out him. Then the gang minus Ray will be somewhat on the move for parts of the episode in 3x20. At this point there are 3 episodes left and if Oliver doesn't get any development at this point then what would have been the point of the whole season. He needs to change at some point. Even if it is just a little. So, the last 3 episodes should lead go in that direction. Shouldn't they?

 

I wonder if Laurel outs herself as well. Because as much as Lance is probably and rightfully mad, I doubt he'd let Laurel go to jail for doing what Sara did. 

 

And I still believe that something will happen to Roy. Maybe someone tries to shoot the Arrow and it is Roy in the costume. Therefore the public will believe the vigilante is dead and Oliver doesn't have any other choice as to be Oliver for a while. Probably not, but at this point I am not sure what they wouldn't do.

 

Does SA have a panel today as well or not? 

[apinknightmare]

So, easiest explanation is that Shado's a hallucination. 

 

If she's really alive, then she must die again at some point in the flashbacks since Oliver never mentioned to Slade that the woman he was ruining Oliver's life to get revenge for was, you know, not actually dead. 

 

Or, she's a clone of some sort (why specifically she'd be cloned and how anyone would have her DNA to be cloned is beyond me, unless ARGUS did some kind of grave robbing on the island for test subjects - maybe that's how this OMEGA virus comes into play? IDK). And if she is a clone, then maybe that's how Sara manages to come back.

[wonderwall]

Or Arrow is going to take a page out of Jane the Virgin and that person is actually Shado's twin :p

[apinknightmare]

Or Arrow is going to take a page out of Jane the Virgin and that person is actually Shado's twin :p

 

Haha, that too. They are in China, so I suppose the odds of him running into her twin are Arrow-level reasonable at one in a billion!

 

My best case scenario is that she's a hallucination of sorts, although that doesn't sound likely. If they're going to kill someone off, they need to commit to it. Don't bring them back as undeads, don't show them in flashbacks, don't make them have evil/non-evil twins. Just commit to the decision you made that they don't have any story left to tell or whatever. Ugh. 

[tv echo]

The new spoilers just confirm that the rest of this season is going to be dark and depressing... doesn't make me want to watch at all.

 

In the category of things that make me go 'ugh'...
- A more 'defeated' and 'introspective' Oliver going forward.
- Ray/Atom saving Felicity.
- Cisco telling Laurel "ILY" upon learning she's the BC (Cisco's turn at prop duty).

[Guest]

Shado got shot in the head and they buried her. She's got to be a hallucination or a twin sister. I will call bullshit if she's alive. It makes her death meaningless.

Cisco tells Laurel he loves BC?! But she hasn't done anything yet. Maybe he just loves the name? Haha, now I'm reaching. So much propping. Everyone must be exhausted by all this heavy lifting going on.

Of course Ray will save Felicity. I don't mind that. I do mind that she needs saving in the first place. Stop using women for men's stories 2k15.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

I thought that Ray saying, "stay away from her" was to Oliver/Arrow, not the guy choking her? It doesn't seem like she gets rescued from the choking/stabbing/whatever it is (I think it might be a different scene), from what I could tell from the various quality clips I've seen. 

 

Could be wrong though, because of quality and fast-moving clip reasons. 

[Danny Franks]

The new spoilers just confirm that the rest of this season is going to be dark and depressing... doesn't make me want to watch at all.

 

In the category of things that make me go 'ugh'...

- A more 'defeated' and 'introspective' Oliver going forward.

- Ray/Atom saving Felicity.

- Cisco telling Laurel "ILY" upon learning she's the BC (Cisco's turn at prop duty).

 

Sounds super awesome. Just the sort of spoilers to whet the appetite, huh?

 

So Felicity is scared of what Ray will do to Oliver? Wow. Way to show confidence in Oliver there, Felicity. But I guess, in her defence, he is just some tatty old vigilante with a bow, not a guy with a really cool flying suit that probably has blasters and a HUD like Iron Man. How about this: Felicity learns Ray is going to go after Oliver, so she just tells Oliver, along with dropping some info about how to take out Ray's silly suit, believing he'll be able to handle it. But you know that won't happen.

 

I imagine this will barely be a blip in the epic Felicity/Ray romance. He'll go after the Arrow due to the fake Arrow causing havoc. He'll realise that the real Arrow is okay, and Felicity will forgive him for putting himself in place as the moral authority of a city he's only just moved to.

 

Bringing Shado back? Are they stupid enough to do it? Oh yeah. Will it totally invalidate everything that happened in season 2 in regards to Slade and Oliver and Sara? Oh yeah. But who cares about what happened on the show in the past? That clearly doesn't matter to these writers as long as they can continue to create moments they think are cool.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Danny Franks

[wonderwall]

Yep, Ray wasn't saying that to the person choking Felicity because the cuts are all off. He's probably saying that to Oliver as the Arrow. 

 

So no, Ray/ATOM isn't saving Felicity. He's just being delusional. 

[apinknightmare]

Not to defend what is probably ultimately going to be shitty writing, but Felicity does have a legit reason to be scared about Ray wanting to take Oliver down, and it's got nothing to do with his fighting ability. Considering he wouldn't have to know that Oliver is the Arrow in order to best him, saying that he knows that Oliver is the Arrow and that he's going to do something about it implies that he's going to a) out him or b) turn him in, both things Felicity has reason to be genuinely fearful of. Not only for Oliver but also for herself. 

[looptab]

I'm not  totally convinced that Ray will actually go after Oliver and that it's not just an editing-derived misdirection. Maybe he says he'll go after whatever enemy they'll face in 317, and they assembled the trailer that way for effect but they're just going to have a  difference of opinions?

[KirkB]

That's why I don't pay much attention to promos. They're designed to catch your attention. At least some of the stuff is always shown out of order or context.

Edited March 15, 2015 by KirkB

[Danny Franks]

Not to defend what is probably ultimately going to be shitty writing, but Felicity does have a legit reason to be scared about Ray wanting to take Oliver down, and it's got nothing to do with his fighting ability. Considering he wouldn't have to know that Oliver is the Arrow in order to best him, saying that he knows that Oliver is the Arrow and that he's going to do something about it implies that he's going to a) out him or b) turn him in, both things Felicity has reason to be genuinely fearful of. Not only for Oliver but also for herself. 

 

You're probably right. It makes Ray something of a staggering hypocrite to turn in a vigilante once he discovers his identity, while still planning to become a vigilante himself. But then, it seems like these writers have no desire to make the guy likeable at all, which is baffling to me, given that they're forcing him into a spinoff (that's doomed to failure).

 

The best way to deal with this character is for Oliver to fire an arrow up the suit's exhaust port, and watch the guy explode when he tries to take off.

[apinknightmare]

I'm not  totally convinced that Ray will actually go after Oliver and that it's not just an editing-derived misdirection. Maybe he says he'll go after whatever enemy they'll face in 317, and they assembled the trailer that way for effect but they're just going to have a  difference of opinions?

 

True. The only thing we know for sure about that scene that's definitely not a trick is that Ray knows Oliver is the Arrow. What comes after that, nada. 

So, with Lance on the rampage against the Arrow, and knowing that Felicity is in cahoots with him, I wonder where that leaves her? Is he going to go after her as well, or leave her out of it (even though she'll most definitely be in it if Oliver gets caught and prosecuted, but this is Starling City, so maybe not)? I have to imagine that Laurel will be safe from his legal wrath. Just wondering if they're going to address the fact that legally speaking, Felicity is the most exposed since the Captain of the police force knows her identity. 

 

ETA: I forgot that he knows about Roy as well. So, him too.

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

 

The best way to deal with this character is for Oliver to fire an arrow up the suit's exhaust port, and watch the guy explode when he tries to take off.

 

This is by far, my favorite comment about Oliver vs Ray. I laughed a silly amount. And this really needs to happen.

 

Sadly, I think the writers actually do think Ray is likeable.  They didn't think he is/was a stalker. They love BR himself and he's their Phony Stark, unless their grand plan is to make the Atom a villain in the spinoff, which I can't imagine.

Edited March 15, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

You're probably right. It makes Ray something of a staggering hypocrite to turn in a vigilante once he discovers his identity, while still planning to become a vigilante himself. But then, it seems like these writers have no desire to make the guy likeable at all, which is baffling to me, given that they're forcing him into a spinoff (that's doomed to failure).

 

I guess it depends on how Ray's going to play vigilante. He funds part of the police force (as mentioned in one of the eps in the "Black Canary" trilogy) and is in with the mayor so maybe his vigilantism will be "sanctioned" so to speak? So he probably wouldn't consider himself a hypocrite although he definitely would be one. 

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

True. The only thing we know for sure about that scene that's definitely not a trick is that Ray knows Oliver is the Arrow. What comes after that, nada. 

Exactly. Also, that makes me genuinely curious, because it's not how I thought it would play out at all. I expected  Felicity at first just admitting she's working with the Arrow, and Ray would find out at a later time in some dramatic way. That he seems to find out on his own is a welcome surprise-to a certain point, shouldn't he be the smart one? OTOH we don't even know whether the scene of Ray telling her Oliver is the Arrow is in 317 or in another one, so..who knows!

Edited March 15, 2015 by looptab

[tarotx]

If your guys's guess about some shape shifter virus or whatnot is true, that could be what Caity is in the Spin off? :(

[Ariah]

If your guys's guess about some shape shifter virus or whatnot is true, that could be what Caity is in the Spin off? :(

 

I just had the most terrible thought - a reformed killer taking on the face of his victim... No! Get out of my mind, foul thought! Begone!

[statsgirl]

I was trying to think why I have zero interest in what the sizzle reel was about -- more Ra's threats, more unconnected action scenes, more characters I don't care about -- and I realized that since MG disconnected Felicity and the core O/D/F team, I don't care about Oliver's manpain any more and i don't give two f's about Ra's or the MM/Ra's storyline.

 

 

 That's fine on The Flash, where all of that was introduced immediately.  Here, it's going to feel like season four of Felicity where suddenly this reality based show was dealing in time travel.  Like, WTH?!

 

That's exactly the problem.  Flash told you from the start that it was going to be about super powers and metahumans.  With Arrow, it was a show about morality and flawed characters.  This season has been a bait and switch

 

I wonder if Laurel outs herself as well. Because as much as Lance is probably and rightfully mad, I doubt he'd let Laurel go to jail for doing what Sara did.

Quentin already knows.  He told her that he knew she was the one in the black leather and wig when she started to confess about Sara.

[apinknightmare]

Quentin basically turned a blind eye to vigilantism in the season premiere by calling off the Arrow task force, and he's been working with Felicity, Arrow and Arsenal all season. If he goes after Arrow, he's going after him for something specific. So I'm thinking that while Ra's has him kidnapped he's going to tell Quentin that hanging with the Arrow is what got Sara killed and maybe appeal to him as a father to go the extra mile in making Quentin believe him. Then, couple that with this other dude in the hood wreaking havoc on the city, I'm guessing he's going to be responsible for attacking the mayor's office along with a string of other terrible things that will sic Quentin after him and him alone - leaving the others safe through some weird Starling City kind of law where they don't look for accessories or something. Because he saw Laurel out with Roy back when he thought she was Sara, so he knows she's working with the Arrow too. 

 

Or maybe he just doesn't give a shit and will consider Laurel collateral damage because he's so pissed about her lying to him. Now, why Quentin wouldn't question a guy he knows is good all of a sudden doing shitty things, I don't know. Maybe the team is able to appeal to his sensibilities somehow and manage to get him to call off the dogs at some point before the end of the season?

 

Also, any chance that Malcolm drugs Roy with whatever he gave Thea to take the fall for Oliver, and that's why we see him dressed as Arrow with Quentin pointing a gun at him? That'd keep his character ambiguous since he'd sacrifice Roy (a dick move) to get the heat off of Oliver (a not-so-dick move). 

Edited March 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[KenyaJ]

In the category of things that make me go 'ugh'...

- A more 'defeated' and 'introspective' Oliver going forward.

 

It's been 18 hours since the panel, so I could be remembering this wrong, but the way Stephen talked about this sounded like he's more introspective and defeated temporarily, but the introspection is the impetus for him to finally get his head out of his ass. Was that anyone else's understanding? I remember feeling relieved that it sounded like sad-sack Oliver's days are numbered.

Edited March 15, 2015 by KenyaJ