Spoiler Discussion Thread

[lemotomato]

It has to be related to the Arrow, presumably the fact that Felicity hasn't told Ray that she both knows and works with him. Yeah, that's a real great relationship. 

 

Is it over yet?

Right? There's nothing as romantic as lying to the person you're dating about a huge part of your life. See: Oliver/Laurel, Thea/Roy

 

And even if Felicity discloses that she's working with the Arrow, would she reveal Oliver's identity too? (I hope not!)

 

Why are they wasting time trying to convince us that Raylicity is a "serious" relationship rather than a rebound hookup?

Edited March 6, 2015 by lemotomato

[Scribbles]

Things that could make Oliver meeting Ray again really work:

 1.  People have wanted to know when Atom will shrink.

 2.  Oliver offers to introduce Ray to a certain redhead the spoiler says will be there.

 3.  Felicity decides to babble about Oliver's ability to penetrate again.

 4.  Ray talks about his suit, Oliver snaps his suspenders...end of discussion

still mulling others....

[Password]

Is it over yet?

So. Much.

I'm sure Ray will be the epitome of understanding though because he trusts her. Agh.

[Guest]

Right? There's nothing as romantic as lying to the person you're dating about a huge part of your life. See: Oliver/Laurel, Thea/Roy

 

And even if Felicity discloses that she's working with the Arrow, would she reveal Oliver's identity too? (I hope not!)

 

Why are they wasting time trying to convince us that Raylicity is a "serious" relationship rather than a rebound hookup?

 

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, they were over before they even begun. I don't even care anymore, just that I hope it's over soon because the more time they waste on them, the more scenes of Felicity I skip. Granted, I'm not actually watching the episodes right now but I could be persuaded if something good was happening. It's not.

 

I can't imagine Felicity would tell Ray Oliver's identity without his permission first. With Barry it was different because that was a life or death situation but even when Wells asked who the Arrow was in the crossovers, Felicity refused to tell him. I hope that same loyalty still applies, even while she's dating Ray. It should have no bearing on it tbh. I'll be really disappointed if she does tell Ray. That would actually taint things for me.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Ray hasn't already guessed that Felicity works with the Arrow, given the amount of times she's run off or been on the phone with one of them when he's in the room. He's supposedly a genius after all. 

 

 

So. Much.

I'm sure Ray will be the epitome of understanding though because he trusts her. Agh.

 

Of course. Gotta show everyone how wonderful and understanding Ray is. He can do no wrong. Bleugh.

[quarks]

Well, Felicity and Ray are presumably breaking up in episode 19 or 20, if not earlier, so episode 17 seems like a good place to lay the groundwork for that - more or less what season 2B did by having Oliver and Sara argue about killing and so on prior to their breakup in episode 20. 

 

If I recall correctly, the original timeline was supposed to be:

 

Episode 16 Arrow.  "The Offer"

 

Episode 17 Arrow. "Suicidal Tendencies." The Diggle-Lyla episode, with some sort of Oliver/Felicity scene.

 

Episode 18 Flash: All Star Team-Up, which will probably include a scene where one of the Flash characters (probably Barry, possibly Caitlin, Iris, Wells or even Cisco) says something meaningful about where Felicity's heart actually belongs. There is some sort of awkward double date with Barry, Eddie, Iris, Felicity and Ray.

 

Episode 18 Arrow. "Public Enemy"; Felicity and Ray return from Flash; Felicity has a hospital scene with Donna Smoak. 

 

Episode 19 Arrow, "Broken Arrow."  Felicity cheerfully sings "Who else is gonna bring you, a BROKEN ARROW! Who else is going to bring you, a bottle of rain!" Ray realizes he can never be with anyone who does Rod Stewart impressions and takes off.  Laurel forgets to water the fern. It's all very sad. 

 

Episode 20 Arrow, "The Fallen."  Good/bad news for Oliver/Felicity.  Diggle replaces the fern before Oliver can get angsty about it, but then, the lair blows up. It finally occurs to the group that maybe the fern brought them bad luck.

 

If I understand things correctly, however, since Flash is now an episode behind (their episode 15 is airing the same week as Arrow's 16), the sequence will be like this.

 

March 17/March 18: Flash, Episode 15, "Out of Time,"; followed by Arrow, Episode 16 "The Offer."  These two episodes are unconnected, so no problem.

 

March 24/March 25: Flash, Episode 16; followed by Arrow, Episode 17, "Suicidal Tendencies."  These two episodes are unconnected, so no problem.  

 

March 31/April 1 or April 7/8: Flash, Episode 17; followed by  Arrow, Episode 18, "Public Enemy."  This is the episode where Felicity is in the hospital, a bit of a problem because:

 

April 7/8 or later: Flash, episode 18, "All Star Team-Up." 

 

Guggenheim has stated that this has created an issue and that some things with the crossovers will feel a bit odd.  That suggests all kinds of things:

 

1. Ray's Atom suit is working just fine at the end of Arrow 18, so there's no reason for them to head to Central City the following week for Flash 18, especially given that Team Flash will presumably be dealing with their own issues.

 

2. Felicity and Ray break up by the end of Arrow 18, which would make it odd for them to be back on a double date in Flash the following week.  This fits in with having a bad patch by episode 17, and gives the show a full five episodes to get Oliver/Felicity back to something for the finale without a complete repeat of the "Tommy just broke up with me and I'm really upset let's bang" speed, or the three episodes between "You need to find someone who can harness that light inside of you" "I love you" which many viewers understandably criticized for happening way too fast. 

 

3. Felicity is in the hospital at the end of Arrow 18, which explains why it's a bit odd to see her out on a date with Ray the following week and fits in with theories that she dies in episode 19 and gets resurrected by Lazarus Pit in episode 20.

 

4. Absolutely nothing about Ray/Felicity will be odd, but quite a lot about Quentin, Joe and Cisco will be odd. 

[Genki]

On the flip side of Felicity not telling Ray about the Arrow, is the fact that Felicity won't have told Team Arrow about "Atom".

So her chat with Laurel could be about why she didn't warn them a new vigilante was out there. Why she was encouraging and supporting Ray's quest. It will probably come back to Oliver and his mission and what her feelings are about it nowadays.

Felicity should definitely NOT reveal Oliver's identity to Ray. I'm sure there will be enough Ray pimpage and him being in the right while Oliver is wrong.

If they do go with *gag* Felicity and Ray being ok after the "rough patch" I'm sure there will be a shot of them hugging and Felicity looking worried because....[insert romantic cliche here]

Is it just me or was that episode description oddly specific?

[Starfish35]

What episodes are Quentin, Joe, and Cisco crossing over in? Do we know?

[Morrigan2575]

Unless something has changed

3/17-3/18 - 115/316

3/24-3/25 - 116/317

3/31-4/1 - 117/318 Joe/Cisco?

week break

4/14-4/15 - 118/319 - Felicity crossover in 118, maybe Cisco/Joe crossover in 319?

4/21-4/22 - 119/320 - Lance crossover in 119

Edited March 6, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Thanks. It is weird that the network did that to them with The Flash though, especially since from the looks of it 115 would have been a better episode to go into the break on (and was probably intended that way).

[Scribbles]

The parallel between Laurel trying to be BC and Ray becoming a guy in a suit that makes him have heroic level abilities is very close.  Without the costumes, what are they at this point?  Oliver doesn't need a hood to perform with heroic abilities (as he has reminded Diggle, he doesn't need a bow either). 

 

Oliver wore the hood to protect those close to him from blowback incurred by being Arrow.  Ray has to have the suit to do the job and at this point Laurel is more of a symbol in the suit than a person with heroic abilities that wears a suit.

[Guest]

Is it just me or was that episode description oddly specific?

 

I thought the same thing. It made me laugh how they tacked on 'Ray and Felicity hit a rough patch' on the end, like it was important or something. They could have just left it at Ray and Oliver's heated standoff. 

 

That CW PR Susanna Gomez (?) who tweeted teasers the other day, does she write the synopsis' by any chance? Makes sense. She watched the episode and then the description appears a couple days later.

[Genki]

I feel like they were ticking boxes trying to get as many things in that might rally the fanbase because many are not enjoying the current direction.

Wedding!

Dead shot!

Suicide squad!!

Cupid!

Oliver Ray standoff!!!

Raylicity rough patch!!!

[Carrie Ann]

I'm sorry, but if you've been dating for all of two weeks, you don't have a "rough patch." You have a problem.

 

And yeah, I don't expect it to end things between them. But I'm relieved to hear it--not actually for Olicity reasons, but for Oliver reasons. I am hoping against hope that they really will allow other people (RAY especially) to be wrong, and to screw up, and to have Oliver be right or better, preferably before the last minutes of the finale. I'm hoping that conflict between R/F may include some things about Ray not being an expert at this vigilante thing.

[Password]

I'm sorry, but if you've been dating for all of two weeks, you don't have a "rough patch." You have a problem.

 

I laughed so hard.

[jay741982]

I'm wondering how much im gonna hate Ray by the end of the season. It's not just Raylicity. It's getting every single thing he wants. Being able to do everything! He's so awesome!! I hope Oliver punches his smug punchable face I'm not even sorry.

[statsgirl]

Why are they wasting time trying to convince us that Raylicity is a "serious" relationship rather than a rebound hookup?

I don't think they are. Hitting 'a rough patch' two episodes into the relationship is a sign saying "Don't take this seriously. We have to do it because we're on the CW but we'll get it out of the way as soon as we can."

 

Still not looking forward to it.  Although if Felicity's talk with Laurel is about the problems of becoming an Instant Superhero, I may laugh my way through that.

Edited March 6, 2015 by statsgirl

[catrox14]

I'm wondering how much im gonna hate Ray by the end of the season. It's not just Raylicity. It's getting every single thing he wants. Being able to do everything! He's so awesome!! I hope Oliver punches his smug punchable face I'm not even sorry.

 

Well I already hate him for ALL the reasons. And I actively root for Oliver to smash his smug, bug eyed face

[JenMcSnark]

That picture of Lance and Arrow is for 3x16 "The Offer." I don't think it has anything to do with the dying speculation for 3x19. If you look to the side, the glass from Lance's office window is shattered (yay, more jobs for the Window Guy!) so my guess is the villain of the episode, Murmur, and his gang might attack the precinct and Lance gets thrown onto his desk. Seems like Murmur and his gang might have a beef with authority figures since I seem to remember a dead policeman by his patrol car in the promo for the same episode.

 

I'm almost certain, now, that it will be Roy who'll die in 3x19. David Ramsey just posted a potentially troll-y photo of SA, EBR, CH, and himself with the caption "Long Live... TEAM ARROW!" in the foundry. A foundry that most definitely looks trashed from what you can see in the background. Also, they all look like they either just had a big crying session or are very, very tired.

 

Ah, okay.  Thank you.  I've been semi-checked out from the show so I don't really know what's going on.  :-)  I agree that Emily, especially looks to me like she's been crying a bit.

[AyChihuahua]

 

I'm wondering how much im gonna hate Ray by the end of the season. It's not just Raylicity. It's getting every single thing he wants. Being able to do everything! He's so awesome!! I hope Oliver punches his smug punchable face I'm not even sorry.

So wait, does that mean you WON'T be tuning in for his spinoff?

[lemotomato]

I don't think they are. Hitting 'a rough patch' two episodes into the relationship is a sign saying "Don't take this seriously. We have to do it because we're on the CW but we'll get it out of the way as soon as we can."

 

Still not looking forward to it.  Although if Felicity's talk with Laurel is about the problems of becoming an Instant Superhero, I may laugh my way through that.

Eh, I'm pretty sure they're going to make up by the end of the episode. Just like Oliver and Sara "fought" when he tried pushing her away in 2x16 and made up by the end. (Coincidentally, that was last season's Suicide Squad episode. Also when Laurel gave Sara dating advice. These guys really are unoriginal.)  Unfortunately, since they go to Central City together in Flash 1x18 and 3x19 is the big ATOM episode, I don't think they'll break up until at then at the earliest.

Edited March 6, 2015 by lemotomato

[formerlyfreedom]

Okay, here's the friendly check in from the moderators! Let's keep to the topic in here please - that's SPOILER DISCUSSION. Talking about quitting/not watching the show, or spinoff discussion does not go here. Your admiration or dislike of particular characters ALSO does not go here.

 

Most importantly, if you've expressed yourself on a particular issue two or three times, there is no need to repeat it. Again. And again. (Yes, we're talking about "who is going to 'die'" with this one!). When new Spoilers show up, yes, discussion is fine. But there's only so much that can be said.

 

As always, if you have questions, please PM one or all of us - you can click on our names and it will take you to a spot that you can send us a PM.

 

Thanks!

 

, @SilverStormm, @MostlyC, and @Lisin

[Hook75]

Will SA really use these words for Roy?
 

It features one of the most emotional, touching and heartfelt scenes we've ever produced. Everyone was equal to the task. Long day, but a good one.

 

Did he used the same words when Oliver's mom died? or Sara?

 

I still think Akiro is going to die in the flashbacks- but again, will it make SA post something like that?

 

So IMO, it is a BIG death (like Thea, Diggle, Lance or maybe even Lila) or something else like him going back to being a killer or something to do with Felicity.

[jay741982]

So wait, does that mean you WON'T be tuning in for his spinoff?

Not for him

Well I already hate him for ALL the reasons. And I actively root for Oliver to smash his smug, bug eyed face

Me too!

[quarks]

Tommy and Laurel broke up in episode 19, and Oliver and Sara broke up in Episode 20, so if Arrow sticks with this pattern, episodes 19/20 look like the Ray/Felicity breakup episodes. If Arrow decides to tweak the pattern, Felicity and Ray could well break up by episode 18 - that originally would have been post their Flash crossover.  Basically: episode 17 is their rough patch; they survive it, but during the two episode 18s, they break up.

 

After all, by Arrow standards for temporary relationships (not normal standards, Arrow standards) this relationship has already gone on for awhile:

 

1. Kiss in episode 7
2. Kiss explanation in episode 9/reveal of suit design.
3. "My friend - more than a friend - just died, so I can't help you with this" in episode 10.
4. "I care about you" in episode 11.
5. Sex in episode 15.
6. Plus one at the Diggle/Lyla wedding in episode 17.
7. An awkward double date in episode 18 of Flash.

 

Seven episodes. Contrast:

 

Oliver/Helena met in episode 7 and broke up in episode 8.  

Oliver/McKenna met in episode 12 and broke up in episode 17.

Oliver/Sara hooked up in episode 13 and broke up in episode 20.

Isabel/Oliver hooked up for one episode.

Laurel/the assistant DA lasted for one dinner.

Laurel/Sebastian Blood met in episode 1, sorta dated in episode 9, and broke up in episode 10. (I'm counting the murder accusations as a breakup.) 

Thea/that DJ met in episode 7, a relationship so annoying to everyone that he committed suicide in episode 13.

Felicity/Barry is a "depends on how you count the coma" episodes: they met in episode 8 and sorta broke up in episode 19 when Caitlin mentioned Iris, but counting episodes where Barry was actually alert, 3 episodes, with Felicity going on a date with Oliver in between that.

Laurel/Ted Grant, assuming they were dating, went out for dinner in episode 6; by episode 12 they apparently hadn't spoken in some weeks. 

 

The two exceptions are Oliver/Shado and Laurel/Tommy. Oliver/Shado hooked up in episode 1 (probably earlier); she died in episode 9. Between times, though, they had onscreen sex once since they were extremely busy doing other things or, in Oliver's case, captured and in a cage. The actual "relationship" stuff was confined to about three episodes.

 

Laurel and Tommy is the one genuine exception, lasting more or less from episodes 1 through 23, but they didn't really start dating until episode 7 (up until that point, he was pursuing her), breaking up by episode 19, or 12 episodes - a couple of which Tommy wasn't in. But as it turned out, that was because this was also one of the two temporary relationships with long lasting plot consequences (Oliver/Shado as the other).

 

The Ray/Felicity relationship is in some ways meant to mirror/replay the Laurel/Tommy relationship, a serious alternative relationship for the main love interest with another rival billionaire. But what Arrow means by "serious alternative" and what people on this forum mean by "serious alternative" aren't always the same thing.  Interestingly, Ray and Felicity also had their first date in episode 7 (up until that point, he was pursuing her.) Given that the Flash crossovers provide extra episodes, a Ray/Felicity breakup in episode 18 more or less fits the timeline of the Oliver/Laurel breakup in episode 19.

 

Sure, Arrow could deviate from the pattern here, and it's possible the show will want to drag out the suspense. But I also think it's possible that Ray/Felicity break up by episode 18.

[statsgirl]

The Ray/Felicity relationship is in some ways meant to mirror/replay the Laurel/Tommy relationship, a serious alternative relationship for the main love interest with another rival billionaire. But what Arrow means by "serious alternative" and what people on this forum mean by "serious alternative" aren't always the same thing.  Interestingly, Ray and Felicity also had their first date in episode 7 (up until that point, he was pursuing her.) Given that the Flash crossovers provide extra episodes, a Ray/Felicity breakup in episode 18 more or less fits the timeline of the Oliver/Laurel breakup in episode 19.

 

Because I love your whole explanation so much, I'm not going to try to argue that Tommy/Laurel was more than a temporary ship to deflect the OTP, it was an attempt to end the OTP.

 

Could it really be that easy?  Break-up by 19/20?

[Password]

Well AK said Felicity will have a real choice between Ray and Oliver. Right now there's (literally) no choice to make because Oliver isn't in the game. I don't know when that will change, so I'm actually put off by an ep 19/20 break up.

If she breaks up with him by then, wouldn't her choice be made? Even if she isn't with Oliver yet.

[Belinea]

Well at least Oliver will find out about the Iron Man suit. I have a feeling that won't cause problems at all. Because while I don't believe you have to tell your friends every little thing that goes on in your life it irritates me that Felicity never mentioned to her team that Ray plans on being another vigilante. I know she doesn't have to but wouldn't that be information that the crime fighting team of SC might appreciate? It just bugs me that there are so many things left unsaid this season. And you just know that Oliver is going to be super pissed off. But Ray's awesomeness will make look Oliver like an idiot yet again and on top off it the rough patch will be resolved because this very seriously relationship has problems. That what happens to every power couple that has been together for 500 years. But seriously, if you are newly together and happy and in love you don't hit rough patches easily. The honeymoon period at the beginning mostly eclipses all the problems you might have later on. So I don't know what to make of it. Are R/F in love or is it convenient for one of them? 

 

And you just know Laurel will say something to Felicity that will make her want to work things out with Ray...Something that shows Oliver as unfit candidate. Why on earth would anyone get relationship advice from the woman who let the guy walk all over her but the moment he showed interest climbed him again. 

[tv echo]

Regarding the spoiler of Oliver running around a hospital (that looks curiously empty) and MG's comment about Mama Smoak not interacting with any of the other characters...

 

Here's my current theory - Oliver accepts Ra's offer to become the next Ra's and goes to Nanda Parbat.  While there, he has an herb or LP-induced hallucination or vision of what happens to his friends in his absence.  Roy impersonates the Arrow and is arrested and then either killed or jailed.  The foundry blows up and Felicity is critically injured.  Etc.  So Oliver sees bad things happening to everyone he cares about because he wasn't there.  After that, he tells Ra's he's changed his mind and returns to Starling City.  Then Ra's decides to wreak vengeance on Oliver.

 

P.S.  I'm not worried about an Arrow v. Atom fight.  I'm sure Oliver has a trick arrow that can short-circuit Ray's exosuit.

Edited March 6, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

Regarding the spoiler of Oliver running around a hospital (that looks curiously empty) and MG's comment about Mama Smoak not interacting with any of the other characters...

 

They are, I believe, two different episodes.  Mama Smoak/the hospital/the phrase "hospital sex" is 18.  The picture of SA with the camera attached to him in the hospital is 20, 19 at the earliest.

[tv echo]

You may be right.  At least two articles - this one and this one - put that pic of Oliver in the hospital as being part of shooting for 3x20 ("The Fallen").  Oh well, shoot that theory.

Edited March 6, 2015 by tv echo

[Scribbles]

The trailer for 3-16 features Ras Al Ghul saying "Oliver Queen is a a man destined to be alone, you're city will turn on you, your closest allies will call you a criminal, you will be scorned, hunted and then killed".  The use of "you" indicates he says this to Oliver.  I suppose we will find out what is behind door number 2 in ep. 3-16.

 

Haven't all these things already happened to Oliver?  I can almost imagine him sniping back with "If that's all you've got, bring it!"  I would enjoy hearing him say "Back at ya, btw you can keep your pool I never liked swimming." 

 

We spent a whole season watching Oliver reject the ends/means bit.  We know he doesn't believe in replacing evil with death at this point in his archery adventure.  Can someone with a bit of comics history help me understand why a man who want to beat em, not join em, would be persuaded to give serious consideration to the offer in the next episode? 

[Sakura12]

The trailer for 3-16 features Ras Al Ghul saying "Oliver Queen is a a man destined to be alone, you're city will turn on you, your closest allies will call you a criminal, you will be scorned, hunted and then killed".  The use of "you" indicates he says this to Oliver.  I suppose we will find out what is behind door number 2 in ep. 3-16.

 

Haven't all these things already happened to Oliver?  I can almost imagine him sniping back with "If that's all you've got, bring it!"  I would enjoy hearing him say "Back at ya, btw you can keep your pool I never liked swimming." 

 

We spent a whole season watching Oliver reject the ends/means bit.  We know he doesn't believe in replacing evil with death at this point in his archery adventure.  Can someone with a bit of comics history help me understand why a man who want to beat em, not join em, would be persuaded to give serious consideration to the offer in the next episode? 

 

Because reasons. 

 

This whole show is written on that excuse. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Wasn't there a spoiler awhile back with Stephen (or maybe it was one of the EPs) talking about how Oliver would almost wish for the Slade kind of mayhem because of how bad Ra's wrath is going to be? So maybe Oliver spurns Ra's offer (but why would that make Ra's want to attack Starling?) Or Oliver accepts Ra's offer, but turns on him (stupid, but this is Oliver) and Ra's wrath rains down on Starling.

[Carrie Ann]

Yes, SA or MG made some statement to that effect (which annoyed me because like, Slade killed Moira, no need to minimize that in order to prop up your new bad guy), but then there is also something out there (from one of the EPs?) about how it can't always be Starling itself that is the target. So it could just be more personally-focused, but I just fail to see the point of that, from Ra's perspective. If you have to force someone to take over for you, they're probably not going to be the best leader of your organization after that, right?

 

I can understand his offer to Oliver at this stage--his rationale and actions hang together for me a little better than Malcolm's do (though I still don't see why he doesn't want Nyssa to do it, unless he honestly wants her to have a better life). You know, he thinks Oliver is full of mental and physical fortitude, willing to sacrifice his life and happiness, etc. But once you get to the stage where you're killing this guy's friends and family and putting a flamethrower to his life in order to get his compliance? Why would that person still seem like a good candidate to you? If he agrees before all of that, it shows he's the type of person you think he is. If he refuses, he's probably not, and even if you get him after you've completely broken him, he's not the same person.

 

And also, this would cover the exact same ground already covered in 2B. Slade was targeting everyone and everything around Oliver in order to break him down (before he would kill him too), and Oliver wanted to give himself up, just to stop the destruction. I have no interest in seeing that play out again. So I'm still not convinced that Ra's is the big bad of the season, though I suppose I shouldn't see lack of logic as an argument against it anymore.

[Morrigan2575]

The trailer for 3-16 features Ras Al Ghul saying "Oliver Queen is a a man destined to be alone, you're city will turn on you, your closest allies will call you a criminal, you will be scorned, hunted and then killed".  The use of "you" indicates he says this to Oliver.  I suppose we will find out what is behind door number 2 in ep. 3-16.

 

Haven't all these things already happened to Oliver?  I can almost imagine him sniping back with "If that's all you've got, bring it!"  I would enjoy hearing him say "Back at ya, btw you can keep your pool I never liked swimming." 

 

We spent a whole season watching Oliver reject the ends/means bit.  We know he doesn't believe in replacing evil with death at this point in his archery adventure.  Can someone with a bit of comics history help me understand why a man who want to beat em, not join em, would be persuaded to give serious consideration to the offer in the next episode? 

Sounds to me like that speech from Slade in 209 where he was going to turn his people against Oliver, and corrupt those he loved and kill those who followed him.  So now we're going for a redo?  

Edited March 6, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

MG said that, which made me think Oliver must turn Ra's down since just the threat of 50 innocent citizens of SC getting it was enough for Oliver to turn himself over for Sara's murder. I guess if he does, Ra's is going to make sure Oliver rues the day and all that? I don't know.

[Sakura12]

We all know how much they love having the 2.0 version why not in storylines as well. 

[AyChihuahua]

The lack of sense this all makes is frigging killing me. Pretty much what Carrie Ann said, except also I don't see why Ra's even wants him. At least when they did this EXACT SAME STORYLINE in Batman you could see why Ra's would want Batman as an heir, and he turned Ra's down and stuck to it.

Wait, I've figured it out!

Ra's bullies Oliver into taking the job as heir. Ra's drops dead of a massive beer-and-yak burger-related heart attack. No one LPs him, because everyone secretly thinks he's a dbag in Liberace robes. Oliver is now Ra's. Oliver/Ra's disbands the LOA, ordering the assassins to get real jobs and girlfriends. Oliver returns to Starling, and everyone learns that bullying someone into taking over your job is pretty stupid, when the job-taking-over can't really take effect until after you're dead, and therefore unable to force continued compliance.

Edited March 6, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Scribbles]

Ok, so we have two rivals set up to challenge Oliver personally.  Ray to challenge Oliver as the big hero in town and heartwinner of the girl prize.  Ras to challenge Oliver as a foe in combat and threat to Oliver's life, status/reputation in the community and personal relationships.  

 

At this point, Ray is closer to taking Oliver down than Ras is.  Slade went through a whole lot of trouble to get what Ray has achieved with a goofy smile, some cash and a suit.

 

Ras can kill Oliver (as long as no one takes dead Oliver to Tatsu's tea house), but we are suppose to believe fear of his own death doesn't move Oliver to action with the same force fear of harm coming to those he cares about does.  Now if Ras could strip Oliver of his humanity, he could have real victory over Oliver.  Taking a job you don't want under fear of harm to those you love does not make you inhumane, so what is the offer suppose to do?  ....

[KirkB]

As has been said by others, Ra's offer to Oliver makes no sense on a number of levels. In theory beating a guy down, killing off everyone and everything he loves so he has no real choice left but to turn to you is easy enough, though you're not getting a worthy successor so much as a dejected shell of a man. One who is likely to be somewhat resentful and perhaps a bit angry about you ruining his life's work, which in turn would more than likely only lead him to agreeing to take control of your organization so he can, in fact, ruin YOUR life's work. And this is all on top of choosing a guy with terrible decision making and leadership skills.

Edited March 6, 2015 by KirkB

[Morrigan2575]

Ra's turning everyone against Oliver/Arrow to try and force him to accept the deal doesn't make sense.  I'm not saying they won't do it but it's a fairly stupid storyline...for all the reasons KirkB pointed out.

 

It would make more sense if Oliver turned Ra's down and Ra's decided to wreak havoc on Oliver/Arrow as punishment for rejecting the offer.  That at least makes sense, trying to destroy Oliver/Arrow in a petty attempt at revenge and the arrogance/ego of a megalomaniac.  However, this just basically puts us right back to Slade in S2, who wanted to destroy Oliver in every way possible before finally killing him out of revenge for Shado.

[Sunshine]

MG just said on tumblr that he said Mama Smoak wouldn't interact with Oliver in 3.18. So she must interact with someone else.  Any chance he's the injured party or is it because of him being hunted?

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sunshine

[lemotomato]

I think Oliver's in jail in 3x18, based on the BTS photos Paul Blackthorne posted. That could be why Mama Smoak doesn't interact with him.

I guess MG's clarification means she's going to interact with Ray, though. More fodder for the "well, Oliver's not there when Felicity needs him, so of course Ray is!" theme.

Edited March 6, 2015 by lemotomato

[Sunshine]

I think Oliver's in jail in 3x18, based on the BTS photos Paul Blackthorne posted. That could be why Mama Smoak doesn't interact with him.

I guess MG's clarification means she's going to interact with Ray, though. ::sigh::

It's more than likely but the "cell" was in the Foundry in 3.15 holding Nyssa so I don't know.  EBR & CH also took a picture a while back with the cell in the background.  I guess I'm just curious as to why MamaSmoak is coming back at all.

 

I also don't understand how Quentin can go after the Arrow knowing what he does about both his own daughters unless he's planning on taking Laurel down too.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sunshine

[Scribbles]

 I guess I'm just curious as to why MamaSmoak is coming back at all.

 

 

Felicity needs help propping up Ray to get through 8 more episodes?

[Scribbles]

I also don't understand how Quentin can go after the Arrow knowing what he does about both his own daughters unless he's planning on taking Laurel down too.

Snarky answer...  Quentin is a good guy and knows having Laurel as she is currently the Black Canary is a danger to the people of Starling.

Real answer:  The Arrow has murdered people and could be taken off the streets.  Laurel would face charges, but nothing that would cripple her for life.  It would be understandable for Quentin to blame Oliver for the vigilante boom in Starling and see this as the best way to protect his last living daughter from herself and the influence of the Arrow.

[AyChihuahua]

 

The trailer for 3-16 features Ra's Al Ghul saying "Oliver Queen is a a man destined to be alone, your city will turn on you, your closest allies will call you a criminal, you will be scorned, hunted and then killed."

Could this be just a prediction, rather than a threat?

[Scribbles]

Could this be just a prediction, rather than a threat?

Maybe?  I just keep coming back to the idea that Ras' offer doesn't make sense relative to where Oliver as a person is at the time it is made. 

 

Options:

1.  Oliver declines, Ras goes two-year old didn't get their toy tantrum and stomps all over Oliver's toys...and then....

2.  Oliver accepts, because he is not himself, drugged, or the writers forgot they didn't tell us something that explains the man who would say yes versus the one we have come to know

3.  The offer itself is a ruse in the greater scheme of things  --  why kill a man who covets death when you can make him wiggle like a worm on a spit in life - in other words the new vertigo Ras version (mind games the sequel)

 

This has been a rather bleak season.  Other than Baby Sara I feel like Oliver did when he said "they were five years where nothing good happened!"  We are beyond angst and into dread and doom territory.  In a wierd, surreal way, spoilers that Oliver is breathing from one episode to the next are like nuclear explosions of joy.  I am looking for some way Oliver leaves Nanda Parbat without Slade winning from a jail cell on Lian Yu while napping on his cot.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Scribbles

[jay741982]

So the best part of the Oliver and Ray standoff is what Oliver calls Ray? Aww I wanted Oliver to punch that douche in the face

[Kromm]

Who the fuck is Damien Darhk?  Someone from the shitty post-52 reboot?