Spoiler Discussion Thread

[KenyaJ]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So, we are actually going to go full on Civil War with OTA vs. NTA? Oh wow, wont this be an evenly matched battle of titans! Who will the audience possibly root for...oh wait a second...

*Doubles over laughing hysterically until I cannot breath*

I swear to god, if the writers try to pretend that Oliver couldn't put those fools down in under a minute, I will rage.

[tennisgurl]

The idea of the newbies beating Oliver, let alone Oliver and John, with an assist from Felicity freezing their accounts and such, is the most ridiculous thing in this entire franchise. And that includes the telepathic time traveling gorilla. 

[calliope1975]

I just found some leaked footage of Oliver fighting NTA. 

[kes0704]

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

That he's 46 and has an alter ego that he hashtags whenever he thinks he's being a badass is LOL.

Is that #KidVicious hashtag his own thing and not show related? I thought it was something related to his character from the comics that I didn’t understand, but if it’s not then LOL forever. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

Is that #KidVicious hashtag his own thing and not show related? I thought it was something related to his character from the comics that I didn’t understand, but if it’s not then LOL forever. 

 No, that is his own alter ego and hashtag. 

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

So, we are actually going to go full on Civil War with OTA vs. NTA? Oh wow, wont this be an evenly matched battle of titans! Who will the audience possibly root for...oh wait a second...

*Doubles over laughing hysterically until I cannot breath*

I just realized that OTA is supposed to be Cap, the newbies are supposed to be Tony, and BS is supposed to be Bucky. And now I suspect the Arrow writers must have been drunk or high when they came up with this parallel and thought it would work out the way CA: Civil War did.

[insomniadreams88]

I wish 614 would really be an intervention for Lance. “Quentin, we’re worried about you. She’s not your daughter.” 

I’d rather see that than any more of this OTA/NTA nonsense. I’m expecting Rene to throw out a “This doesn’t change anything, hoss,” mid-fight as OTA and NTA fight each other, when it wouldn’t make sense since it hasn’t made sense the other times he’s said it. 

[bijoux]

4 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Speaking of, looks like KA is taking promotion of his character into his own hands, staging his own photoshoot and everything (think he tagged enough people or nah?) ?

He sure loves his cotton candy.

[Belinea]

6 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I just realized that OTA is supposed to be Cap, the newbies are supposed to be Tony, and BS is supposed to be Bucky

I can't even with the logic of the writers. Regardless of whether you are Team Tony or Team Cap, you cared about them and saw where they were both coming from. I could care less about NTA. So, I don't even care about their side. They are behaving in such a childish manner that it has come to a point where they annoy me when opening their mouths. 

And while Bucky did truly awful things, he was still Bucky somewhere inside. He wasn't/isn't another Bucky from another earth who has no relations to any of the people. He is the OG Bucky. Which makes their Laurel logic hard for me to understand. She isn't Laurel 1.0. She doesn't know you. She doesn't have any memory of you. She isn't the same person. What is the reason for redeeming her? I really dislike this storyline. 

And finally, watch them making Oliver struggle to beat NTA. He should be able to do it in his sleep. He beat Slade, he beat Ra's, he even dealt with Barry. But watch him having a hard time fighting those 3. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Belinea

[Featherhat]

Well I give KA props for doing is own promotion I guess, looks like he's farted a cloud of fairy dust but whatever. 

9 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I can't even with the logic of the writers. Regardless of whether you are Team Tony or Team Cap, you cared about them and saw where they were both coming from. I could care less about NTA. So, I don't even care about their side. They are behaving in such a childish manner that it has come to a point where they annoy me when opening their mouths. 

And while Bucky did truly awful things, he was still Bucky somewhere inside. He wasn't/isn't another Bucky from another earth who has no relations to any of the people. He is the OG Bucky. Which makes their Laurel logic hard for me to understand. She isn't Laurel 1.0. She doesn't know you. She doesn't have any memory of you. She isn't the same person. What is the reason for redeeming her? I really dislike this storyline. 

And finally, watch them making Oliver struggle to be beat NTA. He should be able to do it in his sleep. He beat Slade, he beat Ra's, he even dealt with Barry. But watch him having a hard time fighting those 3. 

Oh, I'm sure of it. Team Incompetance have done some truly dumb stuff in the last few weeks but all of a sudden Curtis will out Felicity Felicity and Dinah will suddenly be revealed to be 100% as good/better fighter than Oliver, cue "Comics Canon Canary" cries to try and sell this. 

But yeah. I care  about Cap and Tony and everyone else who picked a side. I did side eye some of their reasons but they mostly made some sense and of course they wanted Clint and Nat on different sides etc. Point is, they both had understandable reasons for their POV and were not simply whining about not being part of the cool kids. Plus again, cannot be stated enough, I already cared about these characters so them fighting hurts. It's not used to try and (utterly fail) to showcase new teams and gain them popularity unless it was minor characters/characters waiting for their own POV films (who also had better reasons for their choices). 

[thegirlsleuth]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

 No, that is his own alter ego and hashtag. 

I think I assumed that KidVicious was a reference to some past character he played that was memorable.  Kid Vicious is the nickname he gave himself?  This man is absurd.

[Trisha]

9 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Huh? So they are redeeming her?

Cayden (and then Lance) made a big deal about how she hesitated before killing Vince. There was also a scene in which she looked lovingly at an old photo of E1 Laurel & Lance (that she stole, I guess?) which she then packed with her when she was planning to leave town. If we don’t get a full-on redemption, I think we’re going to get something close. Maybe she ends up like Deadshot - person with a complicated past who has done terrible things but there’s still some good there.  I hate it, but all the hints of softness/hesitation have made me give up hope that they’ll completely avoid at least partial redemption. 

[Mellowyellow]

5 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Cayden (and then Lance) made a big deal about how she hesitated before killing Vince. There was also a scene in which she looked lovingly at an old photo of E1 Laurel & Lance (that she stole, I guess?) which she then packed with her when she was planning to leave town. If we don’t get a full-on redemption, I think we’re going to get something close. Maybe she ends up like Deadshot - person with a complicated past who has done terrible things but there’s still some good there.  I hate it, but all the hints of softness/hesitation have made me give up hope that they’ll completely avoid at least partial redemption. 

Gross! She murdered a father in cold blood! I do not know why they needed to show that if they planned to redeem her! It's nasty and plain bad writing!

[Chaser]

Cayden: You hesitated to kill Vince.

ME: She still turned his brain to soup. She was killing mercilessly for 10 episodes before. She hesitated killing Teammate, so what?

I get these writers aren't good but if this is a Redemption it's...not.

BS isn't struggling to be good, she didn't have hesitations about destroying a city, what she is a very confused psycho being stalked by the doppelgänger of her dead father who is trying to make her his daughter. It's bad when Lance is crazier then BS. It seems they are writing a horror story and calling it Redemption.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Chaser

[Featherhat]

38 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Cayden (and then Lance) made a big deal about how she hesitated before killing Vince. There was also a scene in which she looked lovingly at an old photo of E1 Laurel & Lance (that she stole, I guess?) which she then packed with her when she was planning to leave town. If we don’t get a full-on redemption, I think we’re going to get something close. Maybe she ends up like Deadshot - person with a complicated past who has done terrible things but there’s still some good there.  I hate it, but all the hints of softness/hesitation have made me give up hope that they’ll completely avoid at least partial redemption. 

Yeah, and plus the teams are going to come to blows over her, despite OTA never really sharing any screen time whatsoever this season and having loads of reasons to hate someone who is poisoning the memory of their friends. I think after this episode the calls for her to rejoin  join Team Arrow will grow, or at least to be a long term ally/antagonist ala Deadshot/Nyssa/Malcolm etc. Though I guess that depends on where the episode ends up. Ugh, on the hiatus, I want to see where their going with this to see if the rest of the season is worth bothering about, especially with Dick Dragon taking over the reigns at least until Alena or Athena are revealed to be the Bigger Bad Prime.

But it is horrible writing if its a redemption. Sara struggled with being an assassin in S2 and again with her blood lust and the monster she felt she was in LOT, BS hesitating is not that struggle and its not as if they're writing it and she isn't bringing the layers, the layers just aren't there in the writing either. Then again they do seem to think they're writing a proper civil war storyline where everyone has a point and that's completely flopped so......

Edited February 9, 2018 by Featherhat

[Guest]

I always thought they’d redeem her so this is not surprising to me tbh. Not even the half-assed way they’re doing it. ?

I still think she’s gonna be a Malcolm Merlyn type though, and not suddenly gonna be good and take over the BC mantle, like some of her fans hope. They’re shoving Dinah as BC down our throats too much for that.

[way2interested]

Wait, I just realized, I know that we thought that the newbies would want to kill BS while OTA would just want to arrest her and that would be what gets them to fight, but in 613 they had Curtis and Rene be against Dinah killing BS? Heck they even had them realize the bigger picture in needing to capture her to save the city and recognize that they aren't straight murderers. So, what, do Curtis and Rene just change their minds?

[bijoux]

Nothing changed, hoss.

Seriously, I was shocked at them prioritizing the city over their bestie's feelings. The fact that doesn't last would surprise me far less.

[Guest]

They’re probably just gonna go against OTA. So whatever OTA want to do, the newbies will want to do the opposite, just to be vindictive little assfaces.

[way2interested]

Even if they want to do the opposite, opposite enough to fight all of them seems really far out there, even for them. I guess if they are trying to fight through them to get to BS that kind of makes sense (in their messed up logic way) kind of like how Dinah pushed aside and attacked Lance to get to BS.

[Morrigan2575]

I give Dinah a pass on that Lance drew on her first.

[way2interested]

Ugh that almost makes it worse because then idk why they would fight if Oliver and Diggle wouldn't draw on them and if Felicity is tangentially involved in the fight. 

[Cleanqueen]

I dont know what episode 14 has in store but I truly understand where OTA is coming from, they're not killers, they dont just kill so it makes sense that they dont want BS dead. But I better not have them say shes their Laurel and she deserves to roam the streets, no they either lock her up or find a way to send her back to her earth.

I am hoping that 15 does indeed end with her at the argus hospital and locked up. They can claim she got rehabilitated and then send her back E2 at the end of the season.

[Mellowyellow]

I like the idea of sending BS off but realistically doesn't KC have a contract with the CW for a zillion years? They cannot get rid of her so she will likely roam around.....forever!!!!!!!

[way2interested]

13 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

But I better not have them say shes their Laurel and she deserves to roam the streets,

I don't think OTA's been in a scene with her long enough this season to even see that she looks like Laurel.

14 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I am hoping that 15 does indeed end with her at the argus hospital and locked up.

I think 614 might actually end with that, at least with BS in Argus custody after the fight between OTA and the newbies

[Cleanqueen]

11 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I like the idea of sending BS off but realistically doesn't KC have a contract with the CW for a zillion years? They cannot get rid of her so she will likely roam around.....forever!!!!!!!

I dont think she has a contract with the CW but she might have some ppl on her side. The announcement only said she was a series regular for season 6 so if they can get out of not bringing her back I doubt they will.

They also promised her a 3 show deal last year and didnt give it to her and its partly why shes back this year so now that theyve given her this SR status for S6 and promoted the heck out of her, she has no clout anymore.

[Mellowyellow]

I just saw the trailer for the next ep! JH's acting in the clip.....yiiikes!

Can someone just shoot Feral Dog in the face and call it a day please? I can't work out who is more unbearable! Him or Curtis! And they need to get rid of Alena in the bunker! My Felicity is a genius she does not need help! In S3 they managed to have her work with Ray and not take away from her skillset. I resent her having all these people working with her!!!! GET RID OF THEM!!!!!!!

Unless Alena is the big bad because she is Noah's secret love child that he DOESN'T know about and she's hell bent on revenge MUHAHAHAHAH style against Felicity for MyFather reasons!

See who says I am just an Olicity shipper! Olicity are happily married and I'm still b@tching over this stupid show! 

[Cleanqueen]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I don't think OTA's been in a scene with her long enough this season to even see that she looks like Laurel.

I think 614 might actually end with that, at least with BS in Argus custody after the fight between OTA and the newbies

I thought it was 6x15 because the director for 6x15 posted a pic of KC and complimented her. 

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

I thought it was 6x15 because the director for 6x15 posted a pic of KC and complimented her. 

Oh the actual hospital stuff I think is in 615, but I think they lock her up under Argus custody in 614.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

I dont think she has a contract with the CW but she might have some ppl on her side. The announcement only said she was a series regular for season 6 so if they can get out of not bringing her back I doubt they will.

They also promised her a 3 show deal last year and didnt give it to her and its partly why shes back this year so now that theyve given her this SR status for S6 and promoted the heck out of her, she has no clout anymore.

I REALLY hope you're right!

I just think something shady is afoot as far as she is concerned! She doesn't seem to want to move on from Arrow for whatever reason so I imagine if she can hold something over them she will because this seems like it is her only means of employment! 

[insomniadreams88]

I'm kind of hoping OTA gets involved in the BC/BS drama partly because they're worried about Lance (and Thea, if perhaps he brings her in to help first? Could explain her standing next to BS behind the lamp in that photo?) getting caught in the middle and hurt/killed? 

I don't see anyone from OTA going, "She's our Laurel!" Oliver and Felicity should have a pretty good understanding of doppelgangers and the fact that they're not the same people after the crossover. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

15 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

And they need to get rid of Alena in the bunker! My Felicity is a genius she does not need help!

Thank you, Jesus! I'm seeing these tweets asking that Alena replace the n00bs and I'm just like how can you not see it's the same damn thing?!?! It's like Curtis taking away roles from Felicity. They have the same skills (although Felicity's are superior, of course). I for one don't need replacement characters. Or even new team members. Get everybody out of that damn bunker except for OTA. I know, I know, it's not realistic but I'm sick and tired of other characters co-opting the show. 

In one of the promo pics, it looks like Diggle's arm is hurting ... Curtis wouldn't sabotage his chip, would he? Or Felicity's? 

Edited February 9, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, SmallScreenDiva said:

In one of the promo pics, it looks like Diggle's arm is hurting ... Curtis wouldn't sabotage his chip, would he? Or Felicity's? 

I have to admit I've thought this is possible. Could be why Oliver holds Felicity back? But would they really have Curtis do that? If he does, I don't see how OTA would ever accept him back so the split would have to be permanent. 

[Guest]

I assumed Diggle’s chip might get damaged in one of the BC vs BS fights because I’m pretty sure there’s yet another one of those snoreworthy squawking matches in 614, too. 

I can’t imagine they’d have Curtis sabotage Diggle’s chip. There would be absolutely no coming back from that with him. Might as well just sign his death warrant if that happens. And if they do go there...wow. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Guest

[SmallScreenDiva]

12 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I have to admit I've thought this is possible. Could be why Oliver holds Felicity back? But would they really have Curtis do that? If he does, I don't see how OTA would ever accept him back so the split would have to be permanent. 

That's what I'm thinking, too, but these are the same writers who seem like they are setting up a redemption for a damn murderer. At this point, crazy ideas don't seem so crazy anymore. 

Because in a fight where Oliver's skills are not diminished, there's no way NTA, even with their meta, can handle him, much less Oliver & Digg with Felicity providing tech backup (I hope she has a sonic dampener or something). 

[tv echo]

So I did a little research on the two new female Arrow directors...

I found no social media accounts or IMDb page for Alexa Larouche (620 director). There's a twitter account for an "Alexandra Larouche", but that doesn't appear to be the right person. And there's an IMDB page for an "Alexandra Laroche", but again, it doesn't appear to be the right person.

I found an instagram account and an IMDB page for Andi Armagian (621 director), but no twitter account. I also found a 2014 tweet by Glen Winter about her - she's worked as an editor on both Arrow and Supergirl.

Edited February 9, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah, and plus the teams are going to come to blows over her, despite OTA never really sharing any screen time whatsoever this season and having loads of reasons to hate someone who is poisoning the memory of their friends.

Whatever reason OTA has for not wanting BS dead, I'd be really surprised if it had anything to do with BS herself. Oliver and Felicity's conversation about BS and Tommy's doppleganger in 608 proved that they don't see her as Laurel at all. I imagine it either has to do with pulling Quentin back from the edge or needing to keep BS in play for pragmatic reasons, just like last night.

I'm most interested to see if Oliver even acknowledges BS's presence next week.  The lack of meaningful interaction between them has become one of my favorite running jokes of the season.

[Mellowyellow]

5 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

I'm most interested to see if Oliver even acknowledges BS's presence next week.  The lack of meaningful interaction between them has become one of my favorite running jokes of the season.

Hey they stood in the same room this ep! Oliver is totes on his way to falling in love with her and divorcing Felicity! Didn't you get the memo?

[Trisha]

So once again the Reddit spoilers were bang on, huh? I was kind of side-eyeing the post about this ep because I couldn't believe Oliver would call Barry for such a minor assist, but there we go. Since we have a long break, I'm guessing the next episode will be fully spoiled way before it airs.

On the plus side, as bored I am by NTA/Dragon, I'm not actively hating the show like I was around this time last year during the Billy/Susan/gun control madness. So (lukewarm) yay?

[darkestboy]

I feel the way some people snark about other characters is often how I feel about Felicity. I don't hate her but I don't get why people on here are obsessed with her being so front and centre and hostile toweards any character that isn't the OTA getting any screen time. She's an okay character but too often very Mary Sue esque and the Olicity relationship smacks of bad fanfic writing at times.

Shame we lost Cayden, and I'm not expecting Dragon to be much better. He feels too generic villain wise. Alena is clearly a traitor in the midst as well.

I'm going against the grain here but fuck it, I want a Black Siren redemption arc and I do think they'll go there, even if it's similar to Malcolm in a way.

As for Curtis, Dinah and Rene, all three of them need to go. They've been on the show long enough and they don't gel. Just kill them off and be done with it.  Next season have Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, E2 Laurel and another vigilante (Rory maybe) be Team Arrow and leave it at that. 

[Chaser]

I like Alena and I wouldn't mind more of the character. I don't feel the Team needs her on a regular basis with Felicity though.

I do think she could be a Villainess. I'm kind of hoping Noah turns up and is like "Alena HONEY?!" And we find out that Alena's target wasn't Oliver but Felicity and it's Felicity and Friends again.

[KenyaJ]

26 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I like Alena and I wouldn't mind more of the character. I don't feel the Team needs her on a regular basis with Felicity though.

Nope, not at all. That's why I was excited when the show raised the prospect of her working with Felicity at Helix Dynamics. Her presence in the bunker didn't bother me too much last night, because I can wank that when you're under a four-hour deadline, two hackers are better than one. But a little of that goes a long way.

I'm kind of hoping Noah turns up and is like "Alena HONEY?!"

LOL. You made me realize that this is the very rare occasion where I would be perfectly fine with a long-lost sister story, regardless of whether Alena is good or evil.

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I like Alena and I wouldn't mind more of the character. I don't feel the Team needs her on a regular basis with Felicity though.

I do think she could be a Villainess. I'm kind of hoping Noah turns up and is like "Alena HONEY?!" And we find out that Alena's target wasn't Oliver but Felicity and it's Felicity and Friends again.

I think it’d be cool if she was more of a gray area information broker? Like the tech version of Nyssa maybe? Not evil but with her own motivations that are sometimes at cross purposes with TA? They need more gray characters. 

IDK, sometimes I feel like the writers have completely abandoned all nuance and that they just switch characters back and forth between being good or evil as needed for plot and the show has become very jumbled because of it. It’s weird because I think that was something they managed well in S1 and S2.

It’s been brought up many times here but I don’t see what the endgame is for a Black Siren redemption arc because then what? There are going to be two Canaries on the team? She’s going out in a blaze of glory in the season finale to atone for her sins like Merlyn? I do think they made a mistake making her a henchlady and not an independent operator, it’d be cool if she broke off from Dragon and decided to stop throwing in with whichever random bad man father figure is around. 

She’s never had a personal reason to go after OTA in the first place so I don’t understand if deep down she is a good person why she was so easily talked into it in the first place? Like she could have peaced out at anytime and run around robbing banks and buying wigs and going on dates or you know, helped Team Arrow. 

30 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

LOL. You made me realize that this is the very rare occasion where I would be perfectly fine with a long-lost sister story, regardless of whether Alena is good or evil.

As long as it’s not a long-lost son. 

Now that 3Dragon (tm @apinknightmare ) is the Big Bad, if he has a son...I fear for this board. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by leopardprint

[calliope1975]

29 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

You made me realize that this is the very rare occasion where I would be perfectly fine with a long-lost sister story, regardless of whether Alena is good or evil.

I'd be okay with that, too. Have we had a long lost sibling story yet? Tommy died before the Thea reveal. And who knows what Noah was up to after he left the Smoaks. 

[Velocity23]

Confirmation that Thea suits up in 615

[BkWurm1]

14 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

I swear to god, if the writers try to pretend that Oliver couldn't put those fools down in under a minute, I will rage.

If he's still of the mindset of not fighting them, they might get the advantage but otherwise, yeah, they will have to jump through a lot of hoops to explain why he doesn't knock them all out.  

16 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'd be okay with that, too. Have we had a long lost sibling story yet? Tommy died before the Thea reveal. And who knows what Noah was up to after he left the Smoaks. 

Well if the theme of the season is family, both made and found, maybe they would really go there.  It would make Alena's obsession with Felicity make even more sense as was her initial kind of snarkiness about never meeting your heroes.  

[KenyaJ]

29 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I think it’d be cool if she was more of a gray area information broker? Like the tech version of Nyssa maybe? Not evil but with her own motivations that are sometimes at cross purposes with TA? They need more gray characters. 

 

Yeah, I'd love that. She seemed pretty gray to me last year. I don't think a hacker can ever be a totally "white hat" character. As fundamentally good as Felicity is, she's not afraid of a little moral ambiguity, and she's very "ends justify the means."  (Ask that guy from the Russian phone company in 512.)  I feel like Alena was the same way last season, and I could very much see the two of them being at cross-purposes if they each felt that what they were doing was justified.

26 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'd be okay with that, too. Have we had a long lost sibling story yet? Tommy died before the Thea reveal. And who knows what Noah was up to after he left the Smoaks. 

Yeah, I could totally see Noah having another child after he left, and hacking does seem to run in the genes. I think that would add another interesting layer to Alena and Felicity maybe sometimes being aligned with each other and sometimes not.

Edited February 9, 2018 by KenyaJ

[Featherhat]

I could go with a long lost sibling storyline, it would make a break from all these MySon histrionics from everyone else (and Quentin's mental breakdown over BS). And it would explain why Noah briefly popped up at the reception to remind us who he was, you know except for it being his daughter's reception. I'm not sure it's likely but I'd take it. 

[Primal Slayer]

I just wonder what Curtis will bring to the fight. Are his balls going to work like they did for Diggle/Felicity? Actually be worthwhile 

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I could go with a long lost sibling storyline, it would make a break from all these MySon histrionics from everyone else (and Quentin's mental breakdown over BS). And it would explain why Noah briefly popped up at the reception to remind us who he was, you know except for it being his daughter's reception. I'm not sure it's likely but I'd take it. 

I suspect Noah showing up at the reception was probably just a favor since the actor had such a good working relationship leftover from Everwood but it would be really cool if something came of it.  On one hand it feels there isn't' room in the season for that kind of revelation but on the other hand, I wouldn't put it past these writers to lay it all out in one episode.  Or even as the B or C story in an episode.