Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

And I wonder if the Nazi's aren't compatible  with E1's atmosphere and that's the reason for their masks?

That would be pretty cool, although I'm pretty sure Dark Arrow is wearing one while he's heil-ing with the piece of shit Nazi troops on Earth X, too. Maybe the more garbage a human you are the less you can process natural oxygen because the atmosphere is trying to kill you off so you can rot in the ground where you belong? Hopefully there's a stated reason for it.

[way2interested]

If the spoilers are correct, PB would be at the very end of Arrow's and then mostly in Flash's.

[leopardprint]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

That would be pretty cool, although I'm pretty sure Dark Arrow is wearing one while he's heil-ing with the piece of shit Nazi troops on Earth X, too. Maybe the more garbage a human you are the less you can process natural oxygen because the atmosphere is trying to kill you off so you can rot in the ground where you belong? Hopefully there's a stated reason for it.

Their planet is literally trying to kill them. I could get behind that. 

I think the masks are just for the surprise! It's evil Kara! and to make filming easier. 

[JamieLynn832002]

Okay, I wasn't really upset about the Nazi thing but the comedy  worries me. Especially since in the interview he specifically mentions The Flash episode sticks with comedy so it's definitely not only pre-Nazi. They are aware Nazis are sensitive issue, right? I'm beginning to wonder.

Edited November 23, 2017 by JamieLynn832002

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, leopardprint said:

I think the masks are just for the surprise! It's evil Kara! and to make filming easier. 

Oh definitely. I would just like if if they came up for an in-show reason for them as well.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Which does not square with what GG is saying at all.

Maybe GG meant stuff involving The Flash characters, specifically before the Nazis show up/not in scenes with Nazis? 

[tv echo]

I hope the latest Reddit 'spoilers' are not true (though the latest promo/pic is making me lose that hope). I hate the "Young Nazis In Love" storyline with the heat of a thousand suns. However, if they are true, then it looks like they're going to try to make XOliver a 'sympathetic' character - though isn't "sympathetic Nazi" an oxymoron? Double ugh.

If our Oliver isn't the man under the black hood in that promo pic, then my guess is that it's XOliver - in A Tale of Two Cities -type switcheroo.* Maybe XOliver frees Oliver and switches places with him?

(* In Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities, Sydney Carton took the place of his double, a French aristocrat who was sentenced to be executed by guillotine. His sacrifice allowed the aristocrat to escape with the woman that both men loved. Carton's famous last words were quoted in A Dark Knight Rises: "It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest I go to than I have ever known.")

Also, if these latest reddit spoilers are true, it just reinforces the disparate treatment given to Olicity and WestAllen. The Flash has built this narrative where Barry & Iris are OTP on very Earth and in every reality. But Arrow has built this narrative where Oliver's OTP apparently changes with the circumstances. If he never got on The Queen's Gambit, his OTP would be Laurel. If Nazis won WW2, his OTP would be Kara. Maybe this is the EPs' way of appeasing fans of the GA/BC comics romance. But again, Nazis?! Triple ugh.

As long as I'm looking at classical allusions, I'm reminded that JH compared the crossover to The Odyssey: “I’m so excited... It’s epic and the story is Odyssey-like and I’m excited for people to see that too.” (Nov. 10, 2017 Nerdist article, page 10 of New Spoilers thread and page 1656 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

Quite frankly, I don't see the comparison. In The Odyssey, Odysseus takes 10 years to return home to Ithaca after the 10-year Trojan War. During this 20-year period of time, his wife Penelope waited faithfully and chastely for him to return, refusing all suitors.  IIRC, Odysseus was not quite as faithful to her.

Or maybe JH just got her classics confused.

Edited November 23, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Oh definitely. I would just like if if they came up for an in-show reason for them as well.

Maybe that's why the Earth-1 people have to leave Earth-X as well? They can't stay there either. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

I see even Nazi Oliver manages to visit his girlfriend in the hospital. 

LOL. Geez, I mean I get not liking Oliver but seriously? You're gonna die on the hill that Nazi Oliver is a better boyfriend than regular Oliver by this standard?

46 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Okay, I wasn't really upset about the Nazi thing but the comedy  worries me. Especially since in the interview he specifically mentions The Flash episode sticks with comedy so it's definitely not only pre-Nazi. They are aware Nazis are sensitive issue, right? I'm beginning to wonder.

I know this is not a great comparison but Mel Brooks did use humor to mock Nazis with The Producers. Maybe it will be some humor that mock the Nazis?

[leopardprint]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

LOL. Geez, I mean I get not liking Oliver but seriously? You're gonna die on the hill that Nazi Oliver is a better boyfriend than regular Oliver by this standard?

Hey now, I didn't come up with the Nazi dark romance teaching Oliver some nonsense about true love that WM is pushing. 

I will make my final stand on Hill "I don't care about Nazi romances because they are Nazis and should all be sucked into a black hole but first punched repeatedly."

Edited November 23, 2017 by leopardprint

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, leopardprint said:

Hey now, I didn't come up with the Nazi dark romance teaching Oliver some nonsense about true love that WM pushing. 

She never said Nazi Oliver taught E1Oliver true love. She just said Oliver learns the meaning of true love from a surprising source. We don't have a clue yet who that could be and how that will be taught and what that means. All we've got right now is variations of wild and solid speculations.

 

And making claims that Nazi Oliver is a better person/boyfriend/guy then Oliver is one of those speculations that has very little to go on. Also NAZI. 

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Hey now, I didn't come up with the Nazi dark romance teaching Oliver some nonsense about true love that WM is pushing. 

Be that as it may, I don't think she said Nazi Oliver actually teaches our Oliver anything. It might be the other way around. Maybe our Oliver tells Nazi Oliver to visit his GF. How bout that for a SWAG?

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

She never said Nazi Oliver taught E1Oliver true love. She just said Oliver learns the meaning of true love from a surprising source. We don't have a clue yet who that could be and how that will be taught and what that means. All we've got right now is variations of wild and solid speculations.

I think that if the true love story isn't a Wendy Mericle special (why would Oliver need a lesson about love when - if the spoilers are true - it's Felicity who doesn't want to get married? She needs a reason to change his mind, he doesn't - unless the lesson is that it doesn't matter if they get married, etc), then the surprising source will probably be someone not surprising at all, like idiot Barry. Especially given the happy ending convo the two of them have when they're putting on their tuxes, which I'm guessing comes after the rehearsal dinner (for some reason) and after Felicity's given some indication that she's not gonna be tying the knot with him anytime soon.

[leopardprint]

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Be that as it may, I don't think she said Nazi Oliver actually teaches our Oliver anything. It might be the other way around. Maybe our Oliver tells Nazi Oliver to visit his GF. How bout that for a SWAG?

Omg, ahhhh no. Oliver should only get close enough to punch him or shoot him with an arrow. I really, truly hope they spend very little time on the gross Nazi romance. 

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

She needs a reason to change his mind, he doesn't - unless the lesson is that it doesn't matter if they get married, etc), then the surprising source will probably be someone not surprising at all, like idiot Barry

Maybe the surprising source is Joe West? 

Edited November 23, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

hehe after you guys explained to me how the term "happy ending" is often used these days I can't help but giggle when I see Barry say it or read it typed up!

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

 

Also, if these latest reddit spoilers are true, it just reinforces the disparate treatment given to Olicity and WestAllen. The Flash has built this narrative where Barry & Iris are OTP on very Earth and in every reality. But Arrow has built this narrative where Oliver's OTP apparently changes with the circumstances. If he never got on The Queen's Gambit, his OTP would be Laurel. If Nazis won WW2, his OTP would be Kara. Maybe this is the EPs' way of appeasing fans of the GA/BC comics romance. But again, Nazis?! Triple ugh.

This is just a personal stand, but I don't think the relationships an alternate evil Oliver has changes the perception of how our Oliver is made, who he loves and how he relates to them. I am fine thinking that if our Felicity had never met Oliver, she'd probably be pretty content with Ray. That doesn't make me think she's any less crazy about Oliver, so I don't see why there being another Oliver in the multiverse in a relationship with someone else should color the relationship between the two of them either.

On another note, nothing about Oliver and Laurel's pre-Gambit relationship makes me think OTP. Sure, they could have ended up together, but I see that resulting in years and decades of making each other miserable because Ollie wasn't decisive enough to go after what he wanted and make a clean break instead of self-sabotaging, and Laurel was too stubborn for her own good.

That's not how I picture OTP.

[calliope1975]

If Barry and Iris are OTP on every Earth, that just makes me feel bad for Iris. No version of her gets to escape him.

[Mellowyellow]

@tv echo I know how you feel because I too would have loved the notion of Olicity on every earth (although I am a bit of a hypocrite because I do love the notion of Raylicity on some Earths, maybe like 20% of them) but don't forget an ACTUAL version of Barry tried to KILL Iris for an entire season! He wasn't a doppleganger from another earth or a clone. He had the same memories as Barry.

At least we don't have to face that *prays she doesn't bait TPTB into writing a season where one half of Olicity tries to kill the other*

[tangerine95]

I don't really care if Oliver and Felicity are together on every earth or take it as some sort of validation for the ship or something.It's something I don't like on the flash the way they do it with Barry and Iris because it's used as a reason why they're meant to be way too much and imo sometimes instead of actual earth 1 reasons or development.So in that sense I'm glad it's not as important on Arrow and for olicity.The only reason I'd like to see another earth's version of olicity is because it would be fun to see SA and EBR play different characters.I do think it's gross that they're giving us a visual of Oliver and Kara both because it's so random and I never wanted to see it and because it's the episode olicity gets married in and I think that's kinda ugly of them.But then again it's way more gross that they're doing nazi versions of heroes in the first place so I already wrote off that part and don't want Felicity near that Oliver anyway.

[Simba122504]

Since Barry and Iris are supposed to be a thing on every earth. Do TPTB plan on being realistic with that? Nazis would never accept a white guy and a black girl going out together. Was Earth X Joe killed before he ever conceived Iris? 

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, Simba122504 said:

Since Barry and Iris are supposed to be a thing on every earth. Do TPTB plan on being realistic with that? Nazis would never accept a white guy and a black girl going out together. Was Earth X Joe killed before he ever conceived Iris? 

At this point there doesn't seem to be an E-X Barry or Iris, so that doesn't seem to be an issue.

[SmallScreenDiva]

13 hours ago, tv echo said:

If he never got on The Queen's Gambit, his OTP would be Laurel. 

Uh, no. He was brainwashed by aliens, remember? His OTP was still Felicity, who provided the way out literally as a Smoak Technologies beacon/gateway.

Anyway, I'm OK with them not being OTP on a Nazi planet. Really, I don't need them to be OTP in the multiverse. It'd be nice but not a validation I need. Just need them to be together on our Earth. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

Since Barry and Iris are supposed to be a thing on every earth. Do TPTB plan on being realistic with that? Nazis would never accept a white guy and a black girl going out together. Was Earth X Joe killed before he ever conceived Iris? 

Are they?

[KenyaJ]

4 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

I don't really care if Oliver and Felicity are together on every earth or take it as some sort of validation for the ship or something.It's something I don't like on the flash the way they do it with Barry and Iris because it's used as a reason why they're meant to be way too much and imo sometimes instead of actual earth 1 reasons or development.So in that sense I'm glad it's not as important on Arrow and for olicity.

Exactly. Oliver and Felicity aren't together because they're predestined to be together; they're together because they choose each other. That's way more romantic to me.

[Balaclava]

Spoiler

 

Legends xover episode spoilers, seems legit. Not sure if this is the right place but read at your own risk 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Balaclava

[Velocity23]

So Felicity takes a journey from 

Spoiler

not wanting to marry to proposing to Oliver during the crossover. 

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

So Felicity takes a journey from 

  Hide contents

not wanting to marry to proposing to Oliver during the crossover. 

It seems to me the earlier part is there to set this up. 

[way2interested]

So Felicity's speech is her saying that to E-X Oliver then.

[Primal Slayer]

Well nothing in that really surprised me besides Cold staying on Earth 1 which would be great if Wentworth hadn't quit.

[leopardprint]

I think it was a misstep to give the Nazi dopplegangers that kind of motivation and backstory. I still don't get what they are trying to go for here, are we supposed to feel bad for them? Whenever they tried this with the season villains it was just eyeroll worthy and cringey. Also, it looks like Evil Kara does die so I guess she's not in the cartoon? 

Edited November 23, 2017 by leopardprint

[apinknightmare]

I forgot that there was The Ray and not just a Ray and got really confused for a sec.

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, leopardprint said:

I think it was a misstep to give the Nazi dopplegangers that kind of motivation and backstory. I stil don't get what they are trying to go for here, are we supposed to feel bad for them? Whenever they tried this with the season villains it was just eyeroll worthy and cringey. Also, it looks like Evil Kara does die so I guess she's not in the cartoon? 

Even evil Barry is in the cartoon.  They just dont want their golden boy character to be associated with  nazis at least on the tV screen. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I think it was a misstep to give the Nazi dopplegangers that kind of motivation and backstory. I stil don't get what they are trying to go for here, are we supposed to feel bad for them? Whenever they tried this with the season villains it was just eyeroll worthy and cringey. Also, it looks like Evil Kara does die so I guess she's not in the cartoon? 

She is.

So I think that the animated series is a prequel leading up to the crossover. 

[lemotomato]

Assuming the spoilers are accurate, the Earth X Oliver/Earth X Kara relationship subplot seems completely unnecessary. Earth X Kara-needs-a-heart-transplant plot point could have been done without it.

Edited November 23, 2017 by lemotomato

[Guest]

They're really doing the Nazi love story. My biggest concern is a reality. WTF is even the point of that?! 

I also really didn't want Felicity to be the one to suggest they get married at the same time as WA because I can already imagine the hate she's gonna get for "stealing WA's moment."

Ugh. 

[Balaclava]

Anyone else feels trolled by Wendy Mericles words about the xover? What was she even talking about? 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Balaclava said:

Anyone else feels trolled by Wendy Mericles words about the xover? What was she even talking about? 

A crossover between her brain cells, I guess.

[Guest]

Just now, Balaclava said:

Anyone else feels trolled by Wendy Mericles words about the xover? What was she even talking about? 

She was talking out of her ass, as usual. Because it seems like Felicity is the one who goes on a "journey" from not wanting to marry to proposing. So IDK what she was talking about with the journey about true love. 

[lemotomato]

I didn't realize this until it was pointed out to me, but the reddit guy only spoiled the Arrow (part 2) and LoT (part 4) parts of the crossover. So we still don't know what happens in part 3.

[insomniadreams88]

[SmallScreenDiva]

The part about Felicity being the only girl for Oliver, who is making that speech? It's gonna be a bit weird if it's Felicity because it'll sound like she's trying to convince him when she's the one who was turning him down earlier. I'm not a fan of the Felicity proposes speech, but if Oliver had asked her earlier in the crossover I think I'm OK with it. Only the actual episodes I guess would explain why the heck they felt they needed to tell a Nazi love story. BTW, do both DA and Overgirl die then?

[leopardprint]

1 minute ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

The part about Felicity being the only girl for Oliver, who is making that speech? It's gonna be a bit weird if it's Felicity because it'll sound like she's trying to convince him when she's the one who was turning him down earlier. I'm not a fan of the Felicity proposes speech, but if Oliver had asked her earlier in the crossover I think I'm OK with it. Only the actual episodes I guess would explain why the heck they felt they needed to tell a Nazi love story. BTW, do both DA and Overgirl die then?

I'm thinking Oliver is basically at the just tell me the time and place stage so it's up to her. It would be hilarious if it was Barry and Diggle making that speech to Oliver. 

@Primal Slayer pointed out that OG is in the cartoon and DA and evil Flash are as well so unless it's a prequel, then no. 

The dark romance is just baffling. But then they do a lot of baffling stuff that doesn't land the way they think it will. 

[way2interested]

Pretty sure being stabbed in the heart and exploding is dying and that they don't care about the continuity of the cartoon.

[SmallScreenDiva]

19 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

But then they do a lot of baffling stuff that doesn't land the way they think it will. 

This is one of the major things that baffle me about Arrow. They do this shit all the time and then Guggenheim acts all surprised that the viewers hated it. And most of them are no-brainers. Like, why do a Nazi love story? Or why have your hero trust a reporter you've shown is shady AF? (Yeah, I'm not letting that go ... ever) 

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

So Felicity's speech is her saying that to E-X Oliver then.

What speech?

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What speech?

The get the hell off our earth one?

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What speech?

Her telling them to get the hell off of the Earth. With that timeline, it looks like she's saying that to evil Oliver and then the real Oliver comes to rescue her and Kara.

[Balaclava]

Here's something else that is odd, so this reddit dude watched the xover but only the Arrow and LoT part? This is day 3 or 4 of reddit spoilers about the xover (fake or not) and yet no one seems to have anything on the SG and Flash episodes. Mind you, his/her spoilers seem legit to me but i'm curious why nothing about the first 2 eps. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Thanks! I forgot all about that speech, LOL! I was still in Olicity mode thinking there was an Olicity speech from either Felicity or Oliver :)

[wingster55]

11 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Her telling them to get the hell off of the Earth. With that timeline, it looks like she's saying that to evil Oliver and then the real Oliver comes to rescue her and Kara.

To be fair...that doesn't sound so much like a speech but rather...a line. 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

To be fair...that doesn't sound so much like a speech but rather...a line. 

They wouldn't put the entirety of a speech in a promo, so it could be either.