Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wingster55]

Malcolm, Deadshot and Slade were never dead. That's the difference. 

[HighHopes]

Malcolm, Deadshot and Slade were never dead. That's the difference. 

Malcolm was dead. He was dead to the audience and the characters. I believe it was MG who said they would never explain how he survived- which to me means "we killed him but then we thought of a storyline that we needed him for so SURPRISE! he's back!!"

[ban1o]

Malcolm was dead. He was dead to the audience and the characters. I believe it was MG who said they would never explain how he survived- which to me means "we killed him but then we thought of a storyline that we needed him for so SURPRISE! he's back!!"

John Barrowman said he was never intended to be dead and even asked the writers if Malcolm was dead and they were like "oh god no you're not dead. What are you stupid, You're male"

Ok maybe I changed that last part up lol.

[statsgirl]

I think it doesn't matter whether someone was intended to be dead or not, as long as the audience saw that person die in front of us.  We saw Robert die, and Malcolm, and Tommy, and then Shado, Moira and Sara in quick succession.  So whoever comes back a few episodes down the line and the EPs look!  not dead!, it's still going to feel the same kind of cheat.  When the characters who come back are all male (except for Sara and now she really is dead), it feels like even more of a cheat.

 

I really like Tommy and I wish they hadn't killed him off but if yet another person is going to come back from the dead, I'd rather it was Sara than Tommy.

[Chaser]

I'm not sure I'm remembering all the spoilers right. We are supposed to find out the killer is in Ep.9. Which would be Thea. However, Sin comes back to play an important role in finding Sara's killer. I was thinking about Laurel's mother telling her to get Sara's killer. Could Thea be a huge red-herring so Laurel finds the real killer while Oliver is gone and Team Arrow believes they have the answer. Or is Thea the real killer, and Ep.12 is just when Laurel finds out?

[ban1o]

I'm not sure I'm remembering all the spoilers right. We are supposed to find out the killer is in Ep.9. Which would be Thea. However, Sin comes back to play an important role in finding Sara's killer. I was thinking about Laurel's mother telling her to get Sara's killer. Could Thea be a huge red-herring so Laurel finds the real killer while Oliver is gone and Team Arrow believes they have the answer. Or is Thea the real killer, and Ep.12 is just when Laurel finds out?

I think Thea is the killer. The writers said we would definitely find out in this episode. Maybe sin finds out in episode 12 and hates her? Thea and sin were friends right?

[BkWurm1]

Have we confirmed that we're not getting any kind of stupid time jump or anything?  Someone please tell me for certain there is no time jump before Oliver comes home. 

[calliope1975]

Even the regular time will be about 7 weeks. That's a pretty long ass time plus an additional 3 weeks (episodes)? Aww, this is going to suck. 

Edited December 11, 2014 by calliope1975

[wonderwall]

You know what??? I may not watch Arrow live, but I'm perfectly happy fast forwarding Laurel's scenes and getting to Team Arrow scenes because I'm SO INTERESTED and PUMPED to see them without Oliver and to see how they react to his 'death'. BRING IT. 

[BkWurm1]

It sounds like we are going to see Felicity's reaction to thinking Oliver is dead, but is that after seven weeks of them  looking or the show picking up where is left off  and then doing a two month fast forward to when the city is starting to fall apart.  Two months is still not a very long time but I can see them trying to push a Ray/Felicity relationship after two months.

 

Of course it isn't the two months of time I'm worried about.  Anyone ever seen Alias?  Then you know what I'm talking about. 

[ostentatious]

I think that Ray/Felicity interaction will be about losing the love of their life, like the Diggle/Laurel interaction will probably be about losing a sibling to violence and being unable to bring the killer to justice.

[Password]

So I'm listening to "Total eclipse of the heart" and I'm pretty sure Felicity NEEDS TO LISTEN TO THIS SONG ON THE SHOW!

Yeah the whole Ray lost his love to death thing will definitely bring Felicity and he closer. They set it up like that this episode.

And OMG she totally grabs and pulls his shirt down!!

[wingster55]

Malcolm was dead. He was dead to the audience and the characters. I believe it was MG who said they would never explain how he survived- which to me means "we killed him but then we thought of a storyline that we needed him for so SURPRISE! he's back!!"

Only to the characters...don't ever think the (most of) audience really believed..especially not after Barrowman's 2013 SDCC appearance. 

I just don't think the stance that Arrow only ever kills (major) female characters holds true. 

[Ariah]

Stephen (I just love the guy!) posted on FB a little tidbit:

 

 

Seriously though: Despite the title, our show is bigger than any one character. We're going to prove that to you.

 

If I haven't seen those photos of him filming from after the break, I would start to get really worried. (Though there was also the original Canary there, so ... dead hero walking?)

[Starfish35]

I've referred to this before, but I found the actual quote (italics mine). This was right after the season one finale aired, from MG.

Is Malcolm Merlyn really dead? “Well, it certainly looks that way. John Barrowman is amazing and we love him and the one thing I will say with respect to both Tommy’s death and Malcolm Merlyn’s death is this is a show that does flashbacks.”

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/05/16/arrow-season-finale-post-mortem/

To me, when he said "it looks that way" instead of saying "yes he's dead", I knew that Malcolm wasn't really dead. They just wanted us to think he was. So I was not at all surprised when Malcolm turned up again.

This thing with them possibly resurrecting Tommy though? I really didn't think they would ever do that. Tommy was actually totally dead, not just "looks dead". But now....I don't know. With Lazarus Pits possibly in the equation now (Ra's age), with Colin on set, and MG saying that "The Return" doesn't refer to either Oliver or Slade? Yeah. I don't even know anymore. So thanks writers, for lowering my expectations of you once again! :(

Edited December 11, 2014 by Starfish35

[Password]

I guess if they introduce Lazarus Pits they've completely abandoned the whole set in realism thing. I guess one could argue they did that with the Mirakuru, but as someone up thread mentioned it really just seemed like advanced stages of using some kind of steroid. Super strength, hallucinations, didn't seem that far fetched. But the Pits is definitely bye bye to realism.

If they bring back Tommy I won't be happy. If they bring back anyone, let it be Queen B, Moira. Imagine how deranged Moira would be after going through the Pits. "Must protect children at all costs", ten times worse than her already mama bear tendencies.

If Oliver does go through the Pit, I don't know if I want him to be unhinged or the same because I think out of control Oliver would be out of this world BAD. All I know is I want him to have win in his life. Come on show.

[Guest]

Seriously though: Despite the title, our show is bigger than any one character. We're going to prove that to you.

 

 

Oh Stephen. I don't want you to prove it to me. I watch this show for Oliver and his journey to Green Arrow. Everyone else comes second to that. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Quick question, do Lazarus Pits erase older scars?  Like if they do, the only good thing that would come from using it on Oliver would be that we'd see him shirtless more often.

 

They need to come out with some good spoilers soon.  I'm don't want to see the emotional fallout from Oliver's "death" (especially where it concerns Felicity.  That will be so painful), I don't want to see Roy leading the team, I don't care at all about Laurel suiting up, I don't want to see Roy and Felicity grow closer, and I'm not even looking forward to Thea/Felicity after what went down in the mid-season finale.

[Ariah]

I wonder what the marketing for the second half of the season will be now: will they keep telling us that Oliver is dead? Will they promote the Arrow sans-Arrow?

 

What do the people who never read spoilers think?...

 

Oliver did die in the comics

- was blown up on a plane, actually nd then brought back to life by the Green Lantern... With an amnesia

.

 

Also, with what went down on the romantic front, I can't think of reasons the writers will pull out to keep Oliver and Felicity apart once he gets back. Unless he gets back with amnesia. Damn, I might be correct.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think he has amnesia - there are BTS pics of him suited up with Roy for 3x13 - unless maybe it's selective amnesia.

 

"Felicity? Felicity who?"

 

why did I do that to myself

[NumberCruncher]

 

Also, with what went down on the romantic front, I can't think of reasons the writers will pull out to keep Oliver and Felicity apart once he gets back. Unless he gets back with amnesia. Damn, I might be correct.

For the love of everything holy "NO!" to an amnesia storyline. I do take some comfort that it looks like Oliver is back in the Arrow costume in some of the spoiler pics floating around.

[apinknightmare]

So, Oliver told Felicity that they were meeting at a neutral site and she never asked where it was (that is the freaking obvious question to ask, Felicity). MG said she wouldn't be looking for him because she'd know where he was (or where he wasn't). She put a tracker in his shoes or something, right? Or somewhere on his person that was not his shirt?

[KirkB]

You can read the whole thing here  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Pit  but the most relevant part for those with questions is:

 

Powers and composition

Lazarus Pits are composed of a unique unknown chemical blend that bubbles up somewhere within the Earth's crust to the surface at key points on Earth, typically at the junction of ley lines. The substance possesses the ability to rejuvenate the sick and injured, and even resurrect the dead. The pits also decrease the age of the user depending on how long they stay submerged in the pit. If a healthy person goes into the pits, they will be killed in most instances.

 

Side effects

Though Lazarus Pits are undeniably powerful and useful, they come with side effects, both of which happen immediately after the user emerges. The user both becomes temporarily insane (although when it was used on the Joker, it temporarily rendered him sane[4]) and gains increased strength for a brief period.

Edited December 11, 2014 by KirkB

[SonofaBiscuit]

That would be great if Felicity put a tracker on Oliver (hopefully in his pants, shoes, or undies), and it appears that he's moving around because someone (Malcolm) drags his body to like a secret cave or something.  If the team thinks he's still alive, that would be much easier for me to stomach. 

 

Speaking of this "neutral site", would the LoA even keep a Lazarus Pit there if this is where people go to battle to the death?  And how would one just have access to it?  I know, I really need to let this go!

[KirkB]

Even if Felicity and Diggle and Roy want to go looking for Oliver, did he actually tell them WHERE he was going? Knowing them Oliver might figure they would try and follow or track him so he probably went out of his way to hide his destination.

[writersblock51]

I don't know how non-comic book viewers are doing today or what they're expecting.  If they don't know what a Lazarus Pit is or how they work, then the show is taking a big risk going the route of using one to save Oliver.  Take away, for a moment, the show's earlier proclamation that they will be more grounded in reality (than, say, Agents of SHIELD), then using a Pit to save the title hero is a HUGE step away from reality.

 

Maybe those non-comic book viewers will like it, I have no idea. But I do think it will be confusing. I also think the show will need to spend some explaining it, too.  So either we see scenes or someone will be the Exposition Role and talk the viewers through it while something else is being shown.

 

Couple that with the Atom suit (which looks an awful lot like an Iron Man knock off) and the show is losing it's reality-based premise.

 

And those meta-human or whatever elements will likely work against Oliver.  How can the title hero be the best when all of this stuff is happening in his world?

 

As for SA's comment about the show being more than just Arrow's story, ummm.... ok, but why?  Arrow still has a looooooooooooong way to go, heck he's not even "Green Arrow" yet, so why so much focus on a guest star's origin story and a divisive Canary 2.0 arc?

 

There's just not much happening in the next few episodes that I'm at all interested in.

 

Felicity's reaction, whenever we see it, maybe be "Epic" per MG but he's the guy who considers last night's Olicity scene as a 9.  I disagree with that rating, so, once again, I'm prepared to be very underwhelmed.

 

And we'll likely see her reaction nearly 2 months after so what happened to the team immediately after Oliver left?  Will there be more comics about that or will the show have 'recent flashbacks' to deal with it?

[KirkB]

If they go that route, maybe it won't be a lazarus pit per se. The show has already introduced herbs and toxins to cause mind control and amnesia, drugs which turn people into super strong psychos, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say Nanda Parbat has access to a flower or a potion which can cause rapid healing. Maybe you can't use too much of it or too often because it causes psychosis. They could even call it the lazarus plant.

[apinknightmare]

Even if Felicity and Diggle and Roy want to go looking for Oliver, did he actually tell them WHERE he was going? Knowing them Oliver might figure they would try and follow or track him so he probably went out of his way to hide his destination.

 

He didn't tell them where he was going - he just told Felicity that they were going to a neutral site, and she didn't even ask him where it was (granted, it could be because she knew he wouldn't tell him), but that's why I was hoping she might've put a tracker somewhere on him without him knowing about it.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know how non-comic book viewers are doing today or what they're expecting. If they don't know what a Lazarus Pit is or how they work, then the show is taking a big risk going the route of using one to save Oliver. Take away, for a moment, the show's earlier proclamation that they will be more grounded in reality (than, say, Agents of SHIELD), then using a Pit to save the title hero is a HUGE step away from reality.

My co-worker doesn't read comics and her comment this morning was he's not really dead

She doesn't know anything about comics or follow forums we don't really even talk about Arrow or Flash because she's only an occasional viewer. She doesn't know how he'll survive but she figured out there's no way the show will kill off their main character.

I know people think the audience is stupid/gullible but I think people are smart enough to figure out or feel things out on their own.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Artsda]

May be he has amnesia just about the 2 things he knew for sure? Thea and Felicity? 

[apinknightmare]

And we'll likely see her reaction nearly 2 months after so what happened to the team immediately after Oliver left?  Will there be more comics about that or will the show have 'recent flashbacks' to deal with it?

 

Maybe the time jump isn't as long? It was already Christmas in their timeline (per the article Felicity was reading about the attack at STAR Labs, which happened a couple of days before Christmas IIRC), so they're already a couple of weeks ahead of us. So it's not quite a month when they come back from the hiatus.  

[blixie]

I think the Pits are in play, but I'm not convinced they'll need to throw Oliver in one, I only want it for Zombie!Tommy and clearly Ra's has made use of them since he's at least almost 80 and looks late 40's. He's obviously going to be found and nursed back to health weather that's by Ancient Nanda Parbat secret pits, or by magic herbs, or extraordinary medical miracle treatment of a broken back and neck and legs as well as potentially mortal wound to his lung, well..I do not care. 

 

The only other benefit of the Pits is the symbolic rebirth of Oliver, the literal healing of his external  *scars*, that he can really let the Waller/Island stuff GO. Despite the great Regression of this season re: romance, he's still evolving and this could be what puts him past the hump.

 

I think most modern viewers of genre television are aware that nobody is dead dead on TV, they can always be resurrected.

[writersblock51]

Good point. I'm sure the timeline will be known by Jan. 21st, because I think one of the EPs will clarify it via Twitter.

 

That would be a better time jump in terms of Team Arrow but would work against Laurel's readiness as Canary 2.0.

[dtissagirl]

I've been thinking maybe the time jump happens between 310 and 311. Or we start 310 in present time, see Team Arrowless + Laurel in action *dun dun dun Black Canary tile credits*, and then they go with the "two months earlier" trope, and we see Team Arrow's reactions to the news that Oliver is dead.

Also, in the 310 promo, is that Malcolm saying "Oliver Queen is dead" while a leg approaches Oliver's body?

I'm guessing it's gotta be Malcolm that finds Oliver because Barrowman said he had to film the night scene up at the mountains. I was assuming that would be in 309, but now it's gotta be for 310.

Edited December 11, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Carrie Ann]

My preference would be Oliver survived the wounds and the fall, barely, and is nursed back to health using various methods, but not primarily healed via Lazarus Pit. I don't want him magically, even symbolically, healed of his scars because they're a part of him. Clearing him of his scars and tattoos (?) would make shirtless scenes easier for SA and the show, I know, but I'm willing to sacrifice that.

 

I don't want Oliver to come back "wrong" a la Angel or Buffy on BtVS, and I don't want a new, clean version of Oliver either. I want the same Oliver, because that's the journey I've been invested in from S1, and I don't want a shortcut through it, and I'd prefer not to have a huge regression either.

 

As for the idea of a tracker, I just don't think the writers would pass on the chance to have Team Arrow believe Oliver is dead. Felicity in particular. So I don't think she put a tracker on him, because if she did and they were led to believe that he died, she wouldn't stop until they buried that body.The other option is that they know he's alive, and surviving somehow, and are content to leave him there to get better on his own, and I just don't think that makes sense for what the show is trying to do with everyone.

 

No, what I think is going to happen is that they think he's dead. Nyssa communicates that to them and they believe her. We don't even get to see their acute grief stage because this show loves to skip over those kinds of things, and by the time we join them, they are trying to live without Oliver.

 

So question one: are they going to tell Thea? If so, what are they going to tell her exactly? Will they tell her that Oliver dead? That he was the Arrow and that he died to protect her? Will they tell her about Malcolm and that she killed Sara? Seems doubtful on all counts.

 

Two: how much time will pass between now and when Oliver returns to Starling, whatever episode that is? Is it two months, like it should be if we're following real time? Or are they going to take a bigger jump? Because the EPs said that there are no crossovers in the works for this season.

 

Three: how do Oliver and Felicity proceed when he returns? In one way, a lot depends on Question 2, but in another way it doesn't. Because I would not believe that she would date Ray while grieving Oliver and I don't believe that two months would be long enough. But the writers probably do, and that's the problem. Regardless, it's my belief that something romantic will be going on with Ray by the time Oliver gets back. And again, I will not find it believable that Felicity would not just drop Ray on his ass the minute the love of her life returns from the dead, but you know, the writers...I doubt they agree with me there.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Hmm.  Just had another thought.  If Oliver is healed using the Lazarus Pits, wouldn't he immediately be good to go on his merry (possibly crazy) way?  Like there'd be no reason for him to disappear for two months if he's healed, right?  But I imagine that knife wounds, internal bleeding, and broken bones take a while to nurse back to health.  So maybe that's the route we're taking here, after all (fingers crossed). 

 

And while Oliver is being nursed back to health, he can take the time to get even more clarity on how he feels about Felicity.  Because I'm going to need him to actually start pursuing her romantically the second that he gets back.  No more "guys like us don't get the girl" crap.  I don't want them to drag this out until the season finale where the two get together and then we miss all of their relationship again over the summer hiatus.  No.  Just no.  I want smiling, happy, in love Oliver from the time he returns to the end of the season!

[Danny Franks]

 

I just don't think the stance that Arrow only ever kills (major) female characters holds true. 

 

If they ever bring Tommy back to life, it bloody does!

 

Shado, Moira, Sara, even Isabel. All dead. Permanently, irrevocably dead.

 

Malcolm survived an arrow through the heart. Slade survived extensive burns and nasty looking wounds. Oliver will now apparently survive being stabbed and falling off a cliff. Quentin survived whatever the hell was wrong with him at the end of season 2. If Tommy proves to have survived an iron bar through the torso, then the message is inescapable.

 

'If you die, you'd better hope you've got a dick swinging between your legs. Because then you've got a good shot of being brought back to life. If you haven't, then I don't even want to know you.'

 

What, Yao Fei and Robert Queen stayed dead? Robert Queen wasn't even a character, he was a plot device, and Yao Fei was about as disposable a character as they could come up with.

 

And it looks like even those who haven't been killed, not even once, are getting their characters assassinated quite effectively.

[Sakura12]

That's why when I see everyone saying the Lazarus pits will save Oliver. My only thought was they don't need that, his penis will save him.

[calliope1975]

I agree that this show's track record with women is sad and disturbing. TPTB can talk about how it was necessary for the story, but to me, that just means they aren't very good writers and have little to no imagination and creativity. 

 

I'm not even against bringing in the Lazarus Pits, but to use it on Oliver and not even bring it up for Sara is bullshit. I suppose it all hinges on who that leg belongs to that finds Oliver. Malcolm would probably lock him away somewhere and brain wash him like Thea and oh lord, I'm sorry that is now out in the universe.

 

And while Oliver is being nursed back to health, he can take the time to get even more clarity on how he feels about Felicity.  Because I'm going to need him to actually start pursuing her romantically the second that he gets back.  No more "guys like us don't get the girl" crap.  I don't want them to drag this out until the season finale where the two get together and then we miss all of their relationship again over the summer hiatus.  No.  Just no.  I want smiling, happy, in love Oliver from the time he returns to the end of the season!

 

When Oliver finally begins to pursue Felicity (and it shall be so,) he'll need to call up Barry and be all, "Hey bro, remember that thing I said about not getting the girl? That was dumb. I'm an idiot. You might not get Iris, but you don't have to be forever alone."

[blixie]

 

I don't want Oliver to come back "wrong" a la Angel or Buffy on BtVS, and I don't want a new, clean version of Oliver either.

 

I don't think it has to be either/or and I'm not saying the Pit makes him new and clean, just that on genre show Oliver is not likely to work out his ish with a damn theapist like he should, and personally I'm way past tired of his inability to let his pain and his past go, let it go doesn't insinuate it's no longer a part of who you are, just that you've stopped letting that experience and that pain hold you back and fuck you up, I'm ready for Oliver to be defined by more than that freaking Island and his scars, if it takes a Lazarus Pit to bring that out, than BRING IT ON.

 

BUT I still prefer nursed back to health by someone, and then a Tommy reveal later in the season.

Edited December 11, 2014 by blixie

[Genki]

The reason I might be cool about the Lazarus pits coming into play is Oliver's lifestyle cannot be sustained with the amount of punishment his body takes. In 3.05 he got hit by a car and walked away like it was nothing. So healing him (especially that knee) of some of the punishment his body has been taking the last 8 years, makes sense to me.

 

Also if they need a reason for Oliver to stay away for 3 freaking episodes, the pits are a good way of doing that. Either he is a little cray cray and can't make it back just yet (and all the emphasis on Felicity harnessing his light and being the 1st person he saw as a person can come into play), or Zombie Tommy, is there and really insane and Oliver wants to save him Steve Roger/Bucky Barnes style.

 

I know I would like Sara back to stop the awfulness that is Laurel's umpteenth island, but in terms of character connections and driving the story forward Zombie Tommy makes the most sense. 

 

I know I was not looking forward to the insta-canary opus and the Atom whatever origin, but I now have to watch to see what happens in 3.10...damn you show!!

[Carrie Ann]

I don't think it has to be either/or and I'm not saying the Pit makes him new and clean, just that on genre show Oliver is not likely to work out his ish with a damn theapist like he should, and personally I'm way past tired of his inability to let his pain and his past go, let it go doesn't insinuate it's no longer a part of who you are, just that you've stopped letting that experience and that pain hold you back and fuck you up, I'm ready for Oliver to be defined by more than that freaking Island and his scars, if it takes a Lazarus Pit to bring that out, than BRING IT ON.

 

BUT I still prefer nursed back to health by someone, and then a Tommy reveal later in the season.

 

Okay, totally got you there. I was thinking about a sudden personality modification situation, and those drive me crazy. Because it feels like the character I love died, and I never fully feel like I understand the "new" character, ever again. And it just feels cheap. Like the writers couldn't figure out a way to get him over that hump naturally, so they just drop him in the magic pit.

 

What you're looking for out of this scenario is the same thing I'm looking for. I want him to come out of this struggle to survive with a powerful motivation to heal himself and to go back and fight for a full, real life. I would prefer it happen organically, as you describe in your last line, but if the Lazarus Pits have to play a role, then that's as far as I want it to go.

[Danny Franks]

I agree that this show's track record with women is sad and disturbing. TPTB can talk about how it was necessary for the story, but to me, that just means they aren't very good writers and have little to no imagination and creativity. 

 

I'm not even against bringing in the Lazarus Pits, but to use it on Oliver and not even bring it up for Sara is bullshit. I suppose it all hinges on who that leg belongs to that finds Oliver. Malcolm would probably lock him away somewhere and brain wash him like Thea and oh lord, I'm sorry that is now out in the universe.

 

 

When Oliver finally begins to pursue Felicity (and it shall be so,) he'll need to call up Barry and be all, "Hey bro, remember that thing I said about not getting the girl? That was dumb. I'm an idiot. You might not get Iris, but you don't have to be forever alone."

 

He should add, 'in fact, still stay away from Iris, because that shit is creepy, dude. She's your pseudo-sister.'

 

But yeah, if they actually introduce the Lazarus Pit as a plot device to resurrect Oliver, after never even mentioning it for Sara? Biggest pile of complete bullshit I'll have seen from this show. Unforgivably shabby way to treat a character that many people cared about. But after how they treated Shado, it would sadly be little surprise.

 

As for Oliver pursuing Felicity? I reckon they'll have two 'organically' built-in roadblocks to that when he returns. One, the death-induced trauma, and two Felicity dating 50 Shades. Have fun with that.

[blixie]

 

Okay, totally got you there. I was thinking about a sudden personality modification situation,

 

And now I'm laughing thinking of SA going for soak and emerging as Justin Hartley. I can't say I would totally hate it. Ha!

[wingster55]

Shado, Moira, Sara, even Isabel. All dead. Permanently, irrevocably dead.

 

Who's to say that?

 

Also if Yao Fei is just a plot device..than so are Shado and Isabel. 

 

I get that s2 and 3 haven't been kind to the female characters..but I don't think they're never gonna permanently kill a male character again. Silly to say/think that I believe.

[statsgirl]

John Barrowman's voice on the V/O for the promo plus the shot of someone approaching Oliver makes me wonder if this was an elaborate plan by Malcolm to find the Lazarus Pits so that he could use them for Tommy. And then I remember he was with the LoA for years so he probably already knows where they are.

 

Do we know that Ray will actually be miniaturized himself? From how he was explaining it to Felicity, it sounded to me like he was going to create a miniature android to do the fighting.

 

I think that Ray/Felicity interaction will be about losing the love of their life, like the Diggle/Laurel interaction will probably be about losing a sibling to violence and being unable to bring the killer to justice.

I hope so because is spite of what the guys on the ArrowAfterShow are predicting, it is way, way, way too soon for Felicity to start getting romantic about Ray.   Oliver's just told her that loving her is one of the two things he knows.  Love of your life guys, remember that.

 

 

As for SA's comment about the show being more than just Arrow's story, ummm.... ok, but why?  Arrow still has a looooooooooooong way to go, heck he's not even "Green Arrow" yet, so why so much focus on a guest star's origin story and a divisive Canary 2.0 arc?

 

There's just not much happening in the next few episodes that I'm at all interested in.

 

That's probably why SA tweeted that there was more to the show than just Arrow's story.  Even if people believe Oliver is still alive, when he doesn't show up in 3x10, they don't want viewers not to come back for 3x11.

 

He didn't tell them where he was going - he just told Felicity that they were going to a neutral site, and she didn't even ask him where it was (granted, it could be because she knew he wouldn't tell him), but that's why I was hoping she might've put a tracker somewhere on him without him knowing about it.

I love the tracker idea.  Guggenheim said Felicity wouldn't be looking for Oliver because "she knows where he is and where he isn't."  The Felicity I have got to know, the only person actually looking for Sara's killer, would be moving heaven and earth to get Oliver back even if it's only his body.

 

 

 

Also if Yao Fei is just a plot device..than so are Shado and Isabel.

I get that s2 and 3 haven't been kind to the female characters..but I don't think they're never gonna permanently kill a male character again. Silly to say/think that I believe.

Isabel, like Blood, was a plot device.  (And like the Count, Blood will be back in another version.)

 

Yao Fei I'd argue was somewhat of a plot device because Oliver felt grateful to him, not emotionally close. Shado was Oliver's lover but more than that, she was Slade's love and his motivation to go crazy on Oliver.  Real feelings from both the guys she was fridged for.

 

The only male character that Oliver has been emotionally close to who has died permanently was Robert, and that was back in the pilot.  Since then, there's been Shado, Moira and Sara.

Edited December 11, 2014 by statsgirl

[Danny Franks]

Who's to say that?

 

Also if Yao Fei is just a plot device..than so are Shado and Isabel. 

 

I get that s2 and 3 haven't been kind to the female characters..but I don't think they're never gonna permanently kill a male character again. Silly to say/think that I believe.

 

If they're going to start bringing people back after they get their brains blown out or filled full of arrows and dropped head first into the garbage, and then buried, then the 'creative minds' on this show are even more bankrupt than I thought they were.  But yeah, maybe they will, and the show can circle the drain even faster. Perhaps it's not Batman they want to write, but The Walking Dead. Corpses wandering about everywhere! My hunch though, based on all the evidence, is that women in this world exist for the benefit or detriment of men, and will live or die as it suits the 'journeys' of those men.

 

Yao Fei was a plot device. The purpose he served was to keep Oliver alive until he could meet Slade, and to introduce Shado. He was little more than that, and after those two things had happened, Yao Fei was a goner. And it was blindingly obvious to me from his first appearance that he was not going to make it off the island alive.

[Password]

Is Ray actually going to have much time soon after the return?

[apinknightmare]

So, Malcolm saying "Oliver Queen is dead," in the preview...is this the part of the season where we finally get down to the "a man cannot live by two names" business? So he's going to let go of Oliver and devote himself to being Arrow? Even though I thought he had already tried doing that? Or maybe he hadn't really given it his best shot?

 

I guess that makes any personal growth over the last 9 eps null and void? Or...maybe that's not where they're going with it? Is Malcolm going to give him the same stuff he gave Thea to get him to do his bidding?

[Danny Franks]

So, Malcolm saying "Oliver Queen is dead," in the preview...is this the part of the season where we finally get down to the "a man cannot live by two names" business? So he's going to let go of Oliver and devote himself to being Arrow? Even though I thought he had already tried doing that? Or maybe he hadn't really given it his best shot?

 

I guess that makes any personal growth over the last 9 eps null and void? Or...maybe that's not where they're going with it? Is Malcolm going to give him the same stuff he gave Thea to get him to do his bidding?

 

I think it's a safe bet that this will all either leave Oliver brainwashed and 'evil', or it will make him even more determined to be strong and above all earthly desires. Because maybe if he hadn't loved anyone, he might have beaten Ra's. Because that makes sense. But really, it's a way of stopping him and Felicity getting together for a while longer.

 

Apparently she said nothing in return when he said he loved her. No coincidence, I'm sure. They'll hold off on that until the season finale, is my guess.