Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[bethy]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

1. Nightmare- This was a good ep.  I thought it helped set up the mystery of the season nicely.  But I always felt so bad for Dean.  His reaction at the end was the first time I wondered if John might have been physically abusive towards Dean.  I never felt he was anything like Max's dad but I do believe there were times he reacted in a physical manner towards Dean.  It also shows how much Sam didn't realize exactly how much Dean did for him, when Dean tells Sam that he has something Max never had, and Sam said Dad, and Dean had to point out Sam had him.  It also a big clue, IMO that Sam and Dean were not close growing up and that is really fan fiction. 

This was a great ep, and it's one of my favorites. For me, Sam saying "Dad's not here, Dean," wasn't necessarily an indication that the boys weren't close growing up, but that John was more present and more of a force in Sam's life than he's often given credit for in fan fiction. I loved that Sam's first reaction was to think about his father - that's typical, I think, even when siblings are close. Parents are and should be who kids first think of when it comes to protection. I think Sam had often taken Dean's protection for granted, or maybe even thought of it as part of John's protection of him. I felt like that statement by Dean gave Sam a new - or maybe slightly more mature - understanding of Dean and their relationship. 

[Pondlass1]

Anyone have a gif of Dean or Jensen saying Merry Christmas? 

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Anyone have a gif of Dean or Jensen saying Merry Christmas? 

I feel like I just saw a gif of this on tumblr, since he said it in the last episode. I'll see if I can find it.

Lol, now that I see it, it's probably not what you had in mind. 

http://hunenka.tumblr.com/post/181362280602/spn-14x09-the-spear

From our very own @hunenka

[Pondlass1]

Thanks gonzo 🎄🎄

[Cambion]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I feel like I just saw a gif of this on tumblr, since he said it in the last episode. I'll see if I can find it.

Lol, now that I see it, it's probably not what you had in mind. 

http://hunenka.tumblr.com/post/181362280602/spn-14x09-the-spear

From our very own @hunenka

That's a great one!  Snagged!  Thanks Gonzo.  :)

[ILoveReading]

From @Aeryn13 in the social media thread.

Quote

ntil SPN ends my tiny dream that Dean will get the equivalent of the SGA episode "Sateda" will never die. *sniff*

I never watched SGA.  I've seen this ep mentioned before.  What was it about?

[Aeryn13]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

From @Aeryn13 in the social media thread.

I never watched SGA.  I've seen this ep mentioned before.  What was it about?

If you`re into Sci-Fi at all, I would recommend SGA, it was a good show. In Sateda, the featured character Ronon Dex gets captured by the enemy, a species called Wraith, and ìmplanted with a tracking system to be a "runner". The enemy sometimes picks the strongest captives to hunt for sport instead of usually just for, well, food. Ronon already was a runner for several years which speaks highly to his survival skills , before the Atlantis team freed him and took him in. Now the Wraith take him back to his destroyed home world and hunt him. However Ronon is a super-strategic badass and he outwits and outfights them at every turn. It`s the ultimate badass episode with just the right amount of drama because he flashes back to the destruction and the final stand occassionally. Even when his friends from Atlantis show up to help him, he keeps the "lead" of that particular mission even if he isn`t normally team leader. His friends then provide back-up and he takes on the head Wraith. Yes, ultimately with technological help from the team but Ronon was so mega-badass that episode, nothing detracted from that. 

SPN only ever teases stuff like that. I mean, Dean taking out the vamp nest while fighting against his own bloodlust? Great in concept but we hardly got to see him do it onscreen, just the aftermath. 

To make the above analogy with Sateda and previously being a "runner" work, you could harken back to Purgatory where Dean would have been just that. Then build on it and give him a in-depth badass episode. If there is time for three episodes of saccharine drama for Jack, instead of giving Dean goofy comedy episodes (if give him something at all for one-offs these days) would prefer a Sateda-like one. 

Of course SGA as just about every show had better stunt work and choreography than SPN but Jensen can do it. He has shown that in the meagre scaps of opportunity provided so I would love to see a full episode of it. And as Jensen seems to love stunt work and fight scenes, I`m sure he`d make do with having to work extra on one feature episode. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

32 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

If you`re into Sci-Fi at all, I would recommend SGA, it was a good show. In Sateda, the featured character Ronon Dex gets captured by the enemy, a special called Wraith, and ìmplanted with a tracking system to be a "runner". The enemy sometimes picks the strongest captives to hunt for sport instead of usually just for, well, food. Ronon already was a runner for several years which speaks highly to his survival skills , before the Atlantis team freed him and took him in. Now the Wraith take him back to his destroyed home world and hunt him. However is a super-strategic badass and he outwits and outfights them at every turn. It`s the ultimate badass episode with just the right amount of drama because he flashes back to the destruction and the final stand occassionally. Even when his friends from Atlantis show up to help him, he keeps the "lead" of that particular mission even if he isn`t normally team leader. His friends then provide back-up and he takes on the head Wraith. Yes, ultimately with technological help from the team but Ronon was so mega-badass that episode, nothing detracted from that. 

SPN only ever teases stuff like that. I mean, Dean taking out the vamp nest while fighting against his own bloodlust? Great in concept but we hardly got to see him do it onscreen, just the aftermath. 

To make the above analogy with Sateda and previously being a "runner" work, you could harken back to Purgatory where Dean would have been just that. Then build on it and give him a in-depth badass episode. If there is time for three episodes of saccharine drama for Jack, instead of giving Dean goofy comedy episodes (if give him something at all for one-offs these days) would prefer a Sateda-like one. 

Of course SGA as just about every show had better stunt work and choreography than SPN but Jensen can do it. He has shown that in the meagre scaps of opportunity provided so I would love to see a full episode of it. And as Jensen seems to love stunt work and fight scenes, I`m sure he`d make do with having to work extra on one feature episode. 

Thanks.  That does sound like a great ep, especially one for Dean.  They had the perfect opportunity with the Michael story where Michael was constantly coming after Dean and Dean being strong enough to resist.  Such a wasted opportunity to really showcase Dean's strengths. 

[Pondlass1]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Of course SGA as just about every show had better stunt work and choreography than SPN but Jensen can do it. He has shown that in the meagre scaps of opportunity provided so I would love to see a full episode of it. And as Jensen seems to love stunt work and fight scenes, I`m sure he`d make do with having to work extra on one feature episode

Fights are expensive and take time to film and the Js want more time off to be with family.  

This is the go-to response we'd get.  Thing is, it's not that expensive or time consuming.  And we need to see the brothers in action at least once a season or the whole scenario doesn't work.  Why would they still be alive?  Two humans up against all kinds of supernatural evil that can kill them with a blink of the eye.  Well, they're badass that's why they're still alive.  

But they're not badass anymore are they?  Especially not Dean who once took out a house full of demons while Cain watched. Who survived a year in purgatory, etc. etc.  Dean used to be badass. Now he swaggers a bit.  But Dabb has made him a joke ... plus there's always a spell or spear that will take out the supernatural baddie, so no need to outwit or fight... just a lazy computer generated light show. (Don't get me started on the high-wire debacle.)

I agree that given the chance Jensen would jump at the opportunity for something like the SGA episode mentioned above. He's strong and muscled in appearance and coordinated and would enjoy the experience .  Standing about spouting exposition is not Jensen's thing.  And the show needs a fight scene every once in a while - like we used to get in the past.

I'm beginning to forget Dean is a cool down and dirty street fighter actually.  So much of his screen time is spent sitting down these days.  Sitting is the new smoking.

[hunenka]

Oh yes, a Sateda-like episode for Dean would be so good!

And while we’re talking about inspiration from other TV shows, here’s what I’d love to see: for Dean to have a moment like Buffy in her with Angelus in Becoming, Part Two:

ANGELUS: Now that’s everything, huh? No weapons... No friends... No hope. Take all that away and what’s left?

BUFFY: Me.

(Nice gifset of the scene here.)

[Casseiopeia]

There were more but this one stood out

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

There were more but this one stood out

Where is that originally from?  

[Casseiopeia]

49 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Where is that originally from?  

The Tough Mudder competition that Jensen Jared Richard Rob Osric and Jason ran a few years ago.

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

The Tough Mudder competition that Jensen Jared Richard Rob Osric and Jason ran a few years ago.

Sorry should have clarified, I mean who posted the video originally.  Did that tweeter take part in the same tough mudder or are they reposting someone else's video.

[Casseiopeia]

52 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Sorry should have clarified, I mean who posted the video originally.  Did that tweeter take part in the same tough mudder or are they reposting someone else's video.

I think the guys were video taping their run (maybe Osric?).  It was on YT.  

[falltime]

1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

Sorry should have clarified, I mean who posted the video originally.  Did that tweeter take part in the same tough mudder or are they reposting someone else's video.

from this video at 12 min. mark

[gonzosgirrl]

Say what you will about Tumblr,  there are some gems to be found there. 

I hope this link works....

http://winchesterandwinchester.tumblr.com/post/181725030389/dean-winchester-im-dangerous

[Pondlass1]

Love the I'm Dangerous video.  I remember when Dean was badass.  I remember there used to be a saying that monsters check under their bed for Dean Winchester. LOL.

No action shots from recent seasons you'll notice.

[Casseiopeia]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Say what you will about Tumblr,  there are some gems to be found there. 

I hope this link works....

http://winchesterandwinchester.tumblr.com/post/181725030389/dean-winchester-im-dangerous

Hmmm...dangerous when watching caffeinated. 

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Hmmm...dangerous when watching caffeinated. 

Dangerous watching while female.

Or male.

Or, you know, existing.

[FlickChick]

What I loved about the video besides all the action was all the facial expressions. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why TPTB wouldn't take full advantage of the gift that is Jensen Ackles' talent.

[devlin]

Was watching a season 6 video and it was so painful. Gamble took absolutely everything from dean but what I am sure she didn’t mean proved him to be the strongest character. Everyone betrayed dean or abandoned him, he had absolutely no support. He couldn’t even have Lisa who was showing support at the beginning. In ep where he mind wiped them at the hospital, he was a broken man. That was seriously all hurt and no comfort and then in season 7 he had to turn around and be all about sam yet again! It is majorly heartbreaking, I often find dean so hard to watch coz it is so difficult to watch someone experience so much pain and get nothing in my return 

[gonzosgirrl]

First of all, dat back! *heart eyes*

Secondly - spoilers for 14.10 here, so beware.

I find it very interesting that in Dean's dream life v.2019, he owns a bar, which implies living in one place, and seems more content than we've ever seen him. He's killing the monsters that come to him, while Cas and Sam are off hunting as a team, and he seems not only fine with that, but happy. He's not worried about them. He grins like a little kid over the fact he's 'famous' among the monster community. He won't trade (sell) his life for any amount of money.

Pretty much flies in the face of 'needy, can't live without hunting, can't live without my brother, sad-sack Dean', doesn't it?

*lights a cigarette*

Now that's satisfying.

[PAForrest]

22 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

First of all, dat back! *heart eyes*

Secondly - spoilers for 14.10 here, so beware.

I find it very interesting that in Dean's dream life v.2019, he owns a bar, which implies living in one place, and seems more content than we've ever seen him. He's killing the monsters that come to him, while Cas and Sam are off hunting as a team, and he seems not only fine with that, but happy. He's not worried about them. He grins like a little kid over the fact he's 'famous' among the monster community. He won't trade (sell) his life for any amount of money.

Pretty much flies in the face of 'needy, can't live without hunting, can't live without my brother, sad-sack Dean', doesn't it?

*lights a cigarette*

Now that's satisfying.

YES YES YES, thank you! I thought that was very interesting, that Michael tapped into something in Dean's mind showing us that his happy place was working for himself and not having to worry about Sam and Cas or anyone else, and being perfectly content with them teaming up for the fight while he took care of that which was brought to his doorstep.

And that fits with what Michael was saying about Dean being tired of having to worry about everyone, or believing still that Sam will bolt and Cas and Jack will continue to screw up and always be a concern for him. I know Michael was twisting everything for the maximum benefit of causing a rift between Dean and the others, but when he was saying all that in the bar-scape, Dean never once said he was wrong. All he said was, "shut up" - in other words, stop talking, stop saying it out loud.

It's not that I don't believe Dean loves Sam and Cas, maybe Jack, etc., because I know he does. But I also believe peace for Dean means not having to worry about all these people, and maybe getting a chance for the first time in his entire life, since he was four years old and had to take care of daddy and Sam, to go off and be on his own and do his own thing. And that's only fair and imminently believable given the life Dean has led.

[ILoveReading]

11 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

And that fits with what Michael was saying about Dean being tired of having to worry about everyone, or believing still that Sam will bolt and Cas and Jack will continue to screw up and always be a concern for him. I know Michael was twisting everything for the maximum benefit of causing a rift between Dean and the others, but when he was saying all that in the bar-scape, Dean never once said he was wrong. All he said was, "shut up" - in other words, stop talking, stop saying it out loud.

responding in bitch/jerk

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, PAForrest said:

YES YES YES, thank you! I thought that was very interesting, that Michael tapped into something in Dean's mind showing us that his happy place was working for himself and not having to worry about Sam and Cas or anyone else, and being perfectly content with them teaming up for the fight while he took care of that which was brought to his doorstep.

And that fits with what Michael was saying about Dean being tired of having to worry about everyone, or believing still that Sam will bolt and Cas and Jack will continue to screw up and always be a concern for him. I know Michael was twisting everything for the maximum benefit of causing a rift between Dean and the others, but when he was saying all that in the bar-scape, Dean never once said he was wrong. All he said was, "shut up" - in other words, stop talking, stop saying it out loud.

It's not that I don't believe Dean loves Sam and Cas, maybe Jack, etc., because I know he does. But I also believe peace for Dean means not having to worry about all these people, and maybe getting a chance for the first time in his entire life, since he was four years old and had to take care of daddy and Sam, to go off and be on his own and do his own thing. And that's only fair and imminently believable given the life Dean has led.

Yup!

I posted pretty much the same thing (as my post here) on Twitter, and someone responded that this was all Michael's construct, and as soon as Dean saw Cas & Sam he remembered (he didn't) and he really does need to be attached at the hip to survive, can't live without his Sammeh (I may have paraphrased that part -oops). Nope. The situation may have been cobbled together by Michael's interpretation of Dean's memories, but the fact remains, he was happy in it. Not just going along to get along, happy to the point he defended it. He stated out right he'd never had anything so nice. He wouldn't 'sell' it for any amount of money. And he was just fine with Cas and Sam off hunting (safely) on their own, just like he was happy to see them return.

Edited January 19, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Pondlass1]

Thing is - this is just one writer's version of 'unfettered' Dean.  Some other writer will have him needy and guilt ridden soon enough.

But I believe if all was well with the world, Dean would own a bar and be content.  Even when he was Demon Dean and relieved of all responsibility, he didn't chase wealth or luxury or power or even evil.  He dragged Crowley around on a pub crawl and sang karaoke. 

[Pondlass1]

It's just so intriguing to me that no one comments on Michael's choice in wardrobe.  Everyone's so grim all the time. 

If it was Sam that was possessed and he wore the Peaky Blinder's outfit - you can bet your sweet bippy that Dean would make a comment (even if it wasn't in the script).

Like when Meg (Rachel) went from auburn to blond.  In the middle of the usual peril and crisis Dean couldn't help himself.  His first words were "What's with the hair?"

[DeeDee79]

Quote

No one on Supernatural is ever going to win an Emmy or anything. They are soap stars after all. I remember Jensen doing a decent job on Smallville but he's not going to be a star outside of this show after. I had always thought Jared was the better of the two in terms of ability but again honestly... Jensen has never really had the opportunity to act outside his character for long unlike Jared and Misha. And we all know Misha can't act that well outside of Castel. The only great recurring guest star on this show was Mark Shepherd. Jensen does a good on the show. Whether he does anything after the show ends might be due to typecasting or something else. Again, I'm a big fan of the show and have watched it since season 1. 

Oh wow; I can't stress how much I disagree with this. While I think that all 3 of the leads are great in their roles on the show IMHO Jensen is a very good actor and the clear standout; the most recent episode proves this.  In addition when you factor in the accolades that he's received from his peers in the industry I'm fairly confident in saying that SPN will not be the last stop for him acting wise.

Edited January 20, 2019 by DeeDee79

[ILoveReading]

From @sino8r

Quote

No one on Supernatural is ever going to win an Emmy or anything. They are soap stars after all. I remember Jensen doing a decent job on Smallville but he's not going to be a star outside of this show after. I had always thought Jared was the better of the two in terms of ability but again honestly... Jensen has never really had the opportunity to act outside his character for long unlike Jared and Misha. And we all know Misha can't act that well outside of Castel. The only great recurring guest star on this show was Mark Shepherd. Jensen does a good on the show. Whether he does anything after the show ends might be due to typecasting or something else. Again, I'm a big fan of the show and have watched it since season 1. No offense meant to anyone. 

Marvel would disagree with you, they've been after Jensen for years.  He was short listed for Captain America and then he was offered the role of Hawkeye.  Then they wanted him for Ajax on Deadpool, the only reason it didn't happen was because the WB woudln't let Jensen out of his contract to film it.   Jensen has been nominated for daytime emmys.  The producer of 50 Shades of Grey actually drove to Jensen's house to discuss the role of Christian Grey. 

Jensen is just too loyal.  That's the only reason he hasn't been cast in anything else.

I first noticed Jensen on Dark Angel.  I watched for another character (Logan) but really started to become an ALec fan.  I'd never heard of Jensen before than since I didn't watch Days.  It had very little to do with his looks.

I disagree that just because Jensen hasn't been given much chance to play characters outside of Dean that it doesn't show his range.  I feel like Jensen has the hardest job out of all three actors because in the early seasons, his character wasn't the focal point.  Jensen made use us notice Dean.  He blew away Kripke and has on more than one occasion made the crew cry. 

Plus, Dean's primary storyline, is guilt.  Jensen has found different ways to play it every single time.  His storyline last season was being depressed over Cas's death which was the exact same thing as season 7.  In s7, he played Dean more as at the end of his rope, depressed alcoholic.  Whereas last year he played last season as more angry and resentful at everyone and everything around him.

Jensen seems to have a sixth sense about how to play a scene.  A good example is the scene with God.  Dean was supposed to be angry but Jensen played it as more emotional.  The little things he adds into his performances, like Dean stealing the candy in Ladies Drink Free, or tones, looks and facial expressions all show us different sides of Dean and help us peal back those layers.

A good example is Dean's face when Mary said, John was a good dad.  It spoke volumes without Jensen saying a single word.

So I think Jensen has shown to be a very strong actor whose shown us so many shades of Dean.  The End, with Dean vs Dean. Or demon Dean, or shifter Dean, or Dean Smith.  This are all totally different versions of Dean.  An acting professor said she even uses Jensen's performance in The End in her college class as a way to demonstrate how to play different, but similar characters.   Just because its the same character doesn't mean there isn't a lot of range.  We've seen Dean high and giddy and depressed and broken and every shade in between and every one feels real, organic and makes me laugh want to laugh and cry right alongside Dean.  Jensen makes me feel.

When I see Dean, I can see every bit of trauma, and hardship he's gone through.  The way Jensen carries him self when he plays Dean is totally different than when he's Jensen.  There is this weariness that is a part of Dean that just isn't' there with Jensen.  

Just playing a different character doesn't mean your a great actor/actress.  Everything I see Kathryn Newton is she plays Claire.  This might be more unpopular opinion, but  I found souless Sam and demon blood Sam pretty interchangeable, they were both douches who said/did what they want, consequences be damned.  Souless Sam wasn't' even consistent. One episode he was a puppy, the next up a hardened killer. 

IMO, it isn't lack of talent that that the writers don't' give Jensen the opportunities they give others, its that Dean is the heart and soul of show, (My opinion, of course) but backed up by the writers when every they give an opportunity for Dean to be other the writers panic and say "we need Dean back."  They don't' say that for Sam or Cas.  Dabb even admitted that Dean had to be removed to give other characters breathing room.

That Dean is so consistent with all the show runner, writer changes is a real testament to Jensen.

IMO, Jensen's biggest strength is character building. 

TL:/DR version  Playing multiple characters doesn't automatically make you a good actor, any more than playing one character makes you a bad one.

Edited January 20, 2019 by ILoveReading

[DeeDee79]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

From @sino8r

Marvel would disagree with you, they've been after Jensen for years.  He was short listed for Captain America and then he was offered the role of Hawkeye.  Then they wanted him for Ajax on Deadpool, the only reason it didn't happen was because the WB woudln't let Jensen out of his contract to film it.   Jensen has been nominated for daytime emmys.  The producer of 50 Shades of Grey actually drove to Jensen's house to discuss the role of Christian Grey. 

Jensen is just too loyal.  That's the only reason he hasn't been cast in anything else.

I first noticed Jensen on Dark Angel.  I watched for another character (Logan) but really started to become an ALec fan.  I'd never heard of Jensen before than since I didn't watch Days.  It had very little to do with his looks.

I disagree that just because Jensen hasn't been given much chance to play characters outside of Dean that it doesn't show his range.  I feel like Jensen has the hardest job out of all three actors because in the early seasons, his character wasn't the focal point.  Jensen made use us notice Dean.  He blew away Kripke and has on more than one occasion made the crew cry. 

Plus, Dean's primary storyline, is guilt.  Jensen has found different ways to play it every single time.  His storyline last season was being depressed over Cas's death which was the exact same thing as season 7.  In s7, he played Dean more as at the end of his rope, depressed alcoholic.  Whereas last year he played last season as more angry and resentful at everyone and everything around him.

Jensen seems to have a sixth sense about how to play a scene.  A good example is the scene with God.  Dean was supposed to be angry but Jensen played it as more emotional.  The little things he adds into his performances, like Dean stealing the candy in Ladies Drink Free, or tones, looks and facial expressions all show us different sides of Dean and help us peal back those layers.

A good example is Dean's face when Mary said, John was a good dad.  It spoke volumes without Jensen saying a single word.

So I think Jensen has shown to be a very strong actor whose shown us so many shades of Dean.  The End, with Dean vs Dean. Or demon Dean, or shifter Dean, or Dean Smith.  This are all totally different versions of Dean.  An acting professor said she even uses it in her college class as a way to demonstrate how to play different, but similar characters.   Just because its the same character doesn't mean there isn't a lot of range.  We've seen Dean high and giddy and depressed and broken and every shade in between and every one feels real, organic and makes me laugh want to laugh and cry right alongside Dean.  Jensen makes me feel.

When I see Dean, I can see every bit of trauma, and hardship he's gone through.  The way Jensen carries him self when he plays Dean is totally different than when he's Jensen.  There is this weariness that is a part of Dean that just isnt' there with Jensen.   In Dea

Just playing a different character doesn't mean your a great actor/actress.  Everything I see Kathryn Newton is she plays Claire.  This might be more unpopular opinion, but  I found souless Sam and demon blood Sam pretty interchangeable, they were both douches who said/did what they want, consequences be damned.  Souless Sam wasn't' even consistent. One episode he was a puppy, the next up a hardened killer. 

IMO, it isnt lack of talent that that the writers dont' give Jensen the opportunities they give others, its that Dean is the heart and soul of show, (My opinion, of course) but backed up by the writers when every they give an opportunity for Dean to be other the writers panic and say "we need Dean back."  They dont' say that for Sam or Cas. 

That Dean is so consistent with all the show runner, writer changes is a real testament to Jensen.

IMO, Jensen's biggest strength is character building. 

TL:/DR version  Playing multiple characters doesn't automatically make you a good actor, any more than playing one character makes you a bad one.

Great, great post @ILoveReading. I agree with every word.

[FlickChick]

Fabulous post, @ILoveReading, everything you said and more is true. I personally believe that Jensen's talent rivals not only TV actors, but movie actors as well. I also firmly believe that if this show had ended in S5 as originally planned by Kripke, Jensen would have been in several projects by now. And it breaks my heart that he is fed mostly garbage by this current regime.

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

And it breaks my heart that he is fed mostly garbage by this current regime.

Co-sign this statement so much.

[sino8r]

24 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Fabulous post, @ILoveReading, everything you said and more is true. I personally believe that Jensen's talent rivals not only TV actors, but movie actors as well. I also firmly believe that if this show had ended in S5 as originally planned by Kripke, Jensen would have been in several projects by now. And it breaks my heart that he is fed mostly garbage by this current regime.

 

19 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Co-sign this statement so much.

I believe y'all are missing my point. The last episode was so good and felt like the older seasons, I feel like some of the blame for the bad writing falls to Jensen & Jared. They have alot of pull and should have put up more of a fight with the bad story arcs and inconsistencies. We always tend to blame the showrunners and writers (don't get me wrong here. Most of them suck big time) but the boys most have some say about what happens with their show. Am I crazy to think this? 

49 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

From @sino8r

Marvel would disagree with you, they've been after Jensen for years.  He was short listed for Captain America and then he was offered the role of Hawkeye.  Then they wanted him for Ajax on Deadpool, the only reason it didn't happen was because the WB woudln't let Jensen out of his contract to film it.   Jensen has been nominated for daytime emmys.  The producer of 50 Shades of Grey actually drove to Jensen's house to discuss the role of Christian Grey. 

Jensen is just too loyal.  That's the only reason he hasn't been cast in anything else.

I first noticed Jensen on Dark Angel.  I watched for another character (Logan) but really started to become an ALec fan.  I'd never heard of Jensen before than since I didn't watch Days.  It had very little to do with his looks.

I disagree that just because Jensen hasn't been given much chance to play characters outside of Dean that it doesn't show his range.  I feel like Jensen has the hardest job out of all three actors because in the early seasons, his character wasn't the focal point.  Jensen made use us notice Dean.  He blew away Kripke and has on more than one occasion made the crew cry. 

Plus, Dean's primary storyline, is guilt.  Jensen has found different ways to play it every single time.  His storyline last season was being depressed over Cas's death which was the exact same thing as season 7.  In s7, he played Dean more as at the end of his rope, depressed alcoholic.  Whereas last year he played last season as more angry and resentful at everyone and everything around him.

Jensen seems to have a sixth sense about how to play a scene.  A good example is the scene with God.  Dean was supposed to be angry but Jensen played it as more emotional.  The little things he adds into his performances, like Dean stealing the candy in Ladies Drink Free, or tones, looks and facial expressions all show us different sides of Dean and help us peal back those layers.

A good example is Dean's face when Mary said, John was a good dad.  It spoke volumes without Jensen saying a single word.

So I think Jensen has shown to be a very strong actor whose shown us so many shades of Dean.  The End, with Dean vs Dean. Or demon Dean, or shifter Dean, or Dean Smith.  This are all totally different versions of Dean.  An acting professor said she even uses Jensen's performance in The End in her college class as a way to demonstrate how to play different, but similar characters.   Just because its the same character doesn't mean there isn't a lot of range.  We've seen Dean high and giddy and depressed and broken and every shade in between and every one feels real, organic and makes me laugh want to laugh and cry right alongside Dean.  Jensen makes me feel.

When I see Dean, I can see every bit of trauma, and hardship he's gone through.  The way Jensen carries him self when he plays Dean is totally different than when he's Jensen.  There is this weariness that is a part of Dean that just isn't' there with Jensen.  

Just playing a different character doesn't mean your a great actor/actress.  Everything I see Kathryn Newton is she plays Claire.  This might be more unpopular opinion, but  I found souless Sam and demon blood Sam pretty interchangeable, they were both douches who said/did what they want, consequences be damned.  Souless Sam wasn't' even consistent. One episode he was a puppy, the next up a hardened killer. 

IMO, it isn't lack of talent that that the writers don't' give Jensen the opportunities they give others, its that Dean is the heart and soul of show, (My opinion, of course) but backed up by the writers when every they give an opportunity for Dean to be other the writers panic and say "we need Dean back."  They don't' say that for Sam or Cas.  Dabb even admitted that Dean had to be removed to give other characters breathing room.

That Dean is so consistent with all the show runner, writer changes is a real testament to Jensen.

IMO, Jensen's biggest strength is character building. 

TL:/DR version  Playing multiple characters doesn't automatically make you a good actor, any more than playing one character makes you a bad one.

I've never heard that part about the Marvel movies shortlist. That's very interesting! I do hope our heros get work after the show is done. I just figured they've been typecasted for being on Supernatural for so long. I never truly thought that Jensen (or Jared) are bad actors. Just thought they weren't exceptional. Maybe the fact that the show has gone downhill for so long now has made me a bit blinded to their abilities. 

 

Even though I really loved the last episode, it does make me question as to why there such wild swings in quality when it can be still awesome as shown to us all last week? It's almost frustrating... 

[devlin]

I don’t understand when people equate playing a multitude of characters with being a good actor. To me being a great actor is being able to create a believable 3D character with layers. They have the ability to draw an emotional response from you. In this case quality trumps quantity. I have seen a more complicated, varied performance from Jensen playing one character than I have seen from Jared playing 4. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by devlin

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, sino8r said:

I believe y'all are missing my point. The last episode was so good and felt like the older seasons, I feel like some of the blame for the bad writing falls to Jensen & Jared. They have alot of pull and should have put up more of a fight with the bad story arcs and inconsistencies. We always tend to blame the showrunners and writers (don't get me wrong here. Most of them suck big time) but the boys most have some say about what happens with their show. Am I crazy to think this? 

Seems like you are giving the boys more power over the show that I don't think they have. They do have input with  characterization and IMO, they get involved when something goes off the rails like in s11 when Sheppard right along with J2M had input into the final few episodes.   The ultimate responsibility for the final product that ends up on screen still falls solely on the producers and the network who make the final edit that hits the screen. Not even the director has that edit. 

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, sino8r said:

I feel like some of the blame for the bad writing falls to Jensen & Jared. They have alot of pull and should have put up more of a fight with the bad story arcs and inconsistencies. We always tend to blame the showrunners and writers (don't get me wrong here. Most of them suck big time) but the boys most have some say about what happens with their show. Am I crazy to think this? 

Listening, to their con stories and interviews, they seem to have very little say.  They can change a tone or some lines but they can't change major plot points.   They also say that they leave it up to the writers.

I remember a story Jensen told about the end of of About a Boy (I think that was the name, it was the one where Dean was deaged), and Glass wanted Dean to listen to Taylor Swift at the end.  They even had to come back to Van to film it, despite Jensen's protests.  There was a line that Jared was completely opposed to, which was the wrascally wabbit line.  The writers was insistent it stay.  Major changes have to be writer approved.   Like when Jensen wanted Michael to use his powers in the premier.  The scene was originally written with a fist fight.  Jensen called Dabb.

Jensen's main complaint that was that he wanted Purgatory and DemonDean to last longer.  If they have pull with the show runners, why didn't both those stoylines last longer.

As for the writers/Show runners, I think they deserve most of the criticism they get.  A prime example is this season.  Jensen called Dabb and asked how he wanted him to play Michael.  Dabb blew him off. Jensen said, he was an island unto himself.  He said Richard really helped him find Michael's voice.

So it seems sometimes the writers, are no help.

10 minutes ago, sino8r said:

Even though I really loved the last episode, it does make me question as to why there such wild swings in quality when it can be still awesome as shown to us all last week? It's almost frustrating... 

IMO, there is a lack of leadership in the writers room and no communication.  There are too many people wanting to be in charge.  Dabb, BuckLemming, and Berens all seem to have different directions they want the story to go in.  There is no one at the top pull it all together.  I seriously question whether they read each others scripts.   They seem to write in a vacuum.

I think Dabb and Berens are petty and resentful Wayward wasn't picked up, and IMO it shows in both their writing of the main storyline this season.

I think there are a lot of factors, but I mostly think the problem lies with Dabb.

[devlin]

10 minutes ago, sino8r said:

 

 

 

Even though I really loved the last episode, it does make me question as to why there such wild swings in quality when it can be still awesome as shown to us all last week? It's almost frustrating... 

The quality was so good  coz they finally gave the best actor something to actually work with.

[DeeDee79]

17 minutes ago, sino8r said:

I believe y'all are missing my point.

I took your point to be that Jensen isn't much of an actor and is less of an actor than Jared and Misha because he hasn't been able to play multiple characters. IMO that was basically the gist of your two posts which is what my reply was in response to. 

10 minutes ago, devlin said:

It drives me insane when people equate playing a multitude of characters with being a good actor. To me being a great actor is being able to create a believable 3D character with layers. They have the ability to draw an emotional response from you. In this case quality trumps quantity. I have seen a more complicated, varied performance from Jensen playing one character than I have seen from Jared playing 4. 

Excellent point.

[sino8r]

35 minutes ago, devlin said:

I don’t understand when people equate playing a multitude of characters with being a good actor. To me being a great actor is being able to create a believable 3D character with layers. They have the ability to draw an emotional response from you. In this case quality trumps quantity. I have seen a more complicated, varied performance from Jensen playing one character than I have seen from Jared playing 4. 

Well, that's how most people think of actors. Playing different characters well is typically the sign of one's range and ability. And of course you want someone to be able to play a fully fleshed out character but alot of that is up the writing and lines as well. Some folks criticize Jack Nicholson for allegedly playing the same guy in all his roles. Some praise him for it. I don't make the rules. 

30 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I took your point to be that Jensen isn't much of an actor and is less of an actor than Jared and Misha because he hasn't been able to play multiple characters. IMO that was basically the gist of your two posts which is what my reply was in response to.

Not really, I was asking if it was his acting abilities or the writing because the last episode showed something we rarely see. 

37 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Listening, to their con stories and interviews, they seem to have very little say.  They can change a tone or some lines but they can't change major plot points.   They also say that they leave it up to the writers.

I remember a story Jensen told about the end of of About a Boy (I think that was the name, it was the one where Dean was deaged), and Glass wanted Dean to listen to Taylor Swift at the end.  They even had to come back to Van to film it, despite Jensen's protests.  There was a line that Jared was completely opposed to, which was the wrascally wabbit line.  The writers was insistent it stay.  Major changes have to be writer approved.   Like when Jensen wanted Michael to use his powers in the premier.  The scene was originally written with a fist fight.  Jensen called Dabb.

Jensen's main complaint that was that he wanted Purgatory and DemonDean to last longer.  If they have pull with the show runners, why didn't both those stoylines last longer.

As for the writers/Show runners, I think they deserve most of the criticism they get.  A prime example is this season.  Jensen called Dabb and asked how he wanted him to play Michael.  Dabb blew him off. Jensen said, he was an island unto himself.  He said Richard really helped him find Michael's voice.

So it seems sometimes the writers, are no help.

IMO, there is a lack of leadership in the writers room and no communication.  There are too many people wanting to be in charge.  Dabb, BuckLemming, and Berens all seem to have different directions they want the story to go in.  There is no one at the top pull it all together.  I seriously question whether they read each others scripts.   They seem to write in a vacuum.

I think Dabb and Berens are petty and resentful Wayward wasn't picked up, and IMO it shows in both their writing of the main storyline this season.

I think there are a lot of factors, but I mostly think the problem lies with Dabb.

Maybe they have been too passive about their jobs? I'd think they'd have more say after 14 years. That's very sad and I feel bad for them. 

[DeeDee79]

5 minutes ago, sino8r said:

Not really, I was asking if it was his acting abilities or the writing because the last episode showed something we rarely see. 

My reply was to the posts from the Nihilism thread:

Quote

I remember Jensen doing a decent job on Smallville but he's not going to be a star outside of this show after. I had always thought Jared was the better of the two in terms of ability but again honestly... Jensen has never really had the opportunity to act outside his character for long unlike Jared and Misha.

and 

Quote

For years, I always thought it was because he couldn't do other characters due to his limited acting ability

[Res]

43 minutes ago, sino8r said:

Well, that's how most people think of actors. Playing different characters well is typically the sign of one's range and ability. And of course you want someone to be able to play a fully fleshed out character but alot of that is up the writing and lines as well. Some folks criticize Jack Nicholson for allegedly playing the same guy in all his roles. Some praise him for it. I don't make the rules. 

Not really, I was asking if it was his acting abilities or the writing because the last episode showed something we rarely see. 

Maybe they have been too passive about their jobs? I'd think they'd have more say after 14 years. That's very sad and I feel bad for them. 

Plus, you should see him in the "My Bloody Valentine" reboot. That was some really good acting there as well and he received several compliments from the actors and directors of that project as well. There is also "10-inch Hero" which is definitely a different genre. 

[ILoveReading]

Only Jensen can make me feel sympathy for a Serial Killer.

When I watch Jensen, I stop seeing Jensen.  He doesn't just play Dean, he becomes Dean.  He feels real.

Give me 300 episodes of Jensen playing Dean, rather than other actors playing 300 characters.

I get why Jensen stays but at this point the show is definitely holding him back.

[Aeryn13]

5 hours ago, sino8r said:

Well, that's how most people think of actors. Playing different characters well is typically the sign of one's range and ability. And of course you want someone to be able to play a fully fleshed out character but alot of that is up the writing and lines as well. Some folks criticize Jack Nicholson for allegedly playing the same guy in all his roles. Some praise him for it. I don't make the rules.

There are no "rules" like that. And Jensen's acting was IMO the standout in the earlier Seasons. Even people who didn't like Dean acknowledged that. 

I actually thought he showed he can do very distinct characters well in Dark Angel so I never questioned his ability to do so.

He didn't get much opportunity on SPN because Dean was supposed to be way more of a sidekick with the mytharc revolving solely around Sam.  

[7kstar]

7 hours ago, sino8r said:

Not really, I was asking if it was his acting abilities or the writing because the last episode showed something we rarely see. 

For an actor to shine the most, the writing and acting ability has to be there with a good director.  It is a true partnership for the best results to be there.  As one head writer said in another show, every season you will have some good, bad and great eps.  The writers especially the head writer has the last word.  Because they shoot in Canada, they get a little more freedom than in LA.  The writers, not the director, can say they have to say this line as they are getting paid for their words.  The actor's job is to breathe life into those words. 

By the way, if they become known as being too difficult about not saying the lines as written it will kill their career when they leave their hit show.  All shows end.  The writers talk to other writers.  Jensen was sought after and they even flew him in for the interview, Jared said they didn't do that for him????

To be honest a BAD script will show off a great actor's talent if they can turn it into gold.  Jensen does this in spades.  Like any actor, he has improved over time but he knows how to layer.  I don't always agree with his over the top comedy because I would tone it down but sometimes it can be really well done.  But I've seen enough interviews to see them pushing him to go bigger.

There was even a moment when they told him if you were on another show you would win but because you're on Supernatural you won't.  It's true because the bias against certain shows most likely will never change.  Dramas will be considered harder than comedy.  I deal with this every One Act competition. 

Most of the time Jared is what you see is what you get.  Yes, he's had a few really strong moments but he is still the weaker actor.  We can agree to disagree as you won't get me to your viewpoint.  I direct, I teach acting every day.  I help students learn how to improve and Jensen would be so fun to work with.  

Just because actors are doing movies doesn't mean they are sooooo great.  Tom Cruise is Tom Cruise.  Jensen is having fun playing the character because if he really truly hated it he would have left.  He has the freedom to explore many different settings that he wouldn't get to do if it was a cop show or etc. 

I would love to see Jensen do something else, because yes he has the chops to be an A list actor.  Is Supernatural considered a A list acting gig, nope, never.  It's the little show that should have been canceled but keeps going on.

The first time I saw his talent was in Home, then the speech where sam dies the first time.  I even showed it my students and the actors wanting to learn were like wow.  So for a clip to work on students that don't watch the show, what does that say?   Taking a scene out of context when you don't know the show really shows the weaknesses of the scene. 

 

If it was just the writing a bad actor will still be a bad actor.  Jensen takes bad writing and makes the audience feel things the writers never intended.  Thus they had to change the direction because the audience didn't react the way they expected.  If an actor gets a strong script it helps them to do their job easier.  I do this all the time trying to teach my students why this script is so awful when they think it is so great at first.  Then they start working on it and they have trouble making it work.  Also, remember they put a show together in 8 days.  That really fast compared to movies. 

Sorry but as you can see acting is a passion of mine and I had to learn as much about the business so my students that want to become actors can know at least how to start.

Edited January 21, 2019 by 7kstar
stupid typos.

[AwesomO4000]

9 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

Jensen takes bad writing and makes the audience feel things the writers never intended. 

I have to disagree on this point since we don't agree on what the writers intend.

[PAForrest]

7 hours ago, 7kstar said:

The first time I saw his talent was in Home, then the speech where sam dies the first time.  I even showed it my students and the actors wanting to learn were like wow.  So for a clip to work on students that don't watch the show, what does that say?   Taking a scene out of context when you don't know the show really shows the weaknesses of the scene. 

 

If it was just the writing a bad actor will still be a bad actor.  Jensen takes bad writing and makes the audience feel things the writers never intended.  Thus they had to change the direction because the audience didn't react the way they expected.  If an actor gets a strong script it helps them to do their job easier. 

 

That specific scene in Home is exactly when it jumped out at me that this Jensen Ackles guy was really good and Dean was the character to watch. Up to that point the episodes were mostly pedantic - watchable, entertaining enough, but something was missing. And Home was a pretty terrible episode IMO, it's one of my least favorites. But that scene with Dean making the phone call was pure gold, and things really did change after that episode. I believe Asylum was the following episode, and the feel of the whole show was radically different after that because Dean was given a much stronger voice and started to command the screen, and the series became so much more, stronger, and layered.

Even Kripke has gone on record as saying that it was Jensen who really molded Dean, turned Dean into a far more layered character than Kripke had originally imagined.

Edited January 21, 2019 by PAForrest

[trudysmom]

January 21 is National Squirrel Day.  If anyone deserves his own day, it's our beloved squirrel, just sayin'. 

[Myrelle]

9 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

There are no "rules" like that. And Jensen's acting was IMO the standout in the earlier Seasons. Even people who didn't like Dean acknowledged that.

Jensen was the one who TV Guide named as the break out actor of this show in that first year, but yes, he wasn't given as many opportunities as JP to play any thing or anyone "other" than Dean in those first years because of this

 

9 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

He didn't get much opportunity on SPN because Dean was supposed to be way more of a sidekick with the mytharc revolving solely around Sam.

which, while being somewhat limiting to his range, he made the best of by giving the Dean character all those many layers and nuances(Dean's "walls", for instance) that, yes, even Kripke admitted he hadn't seen coming to such a degree. What I found interesting was that, IIRC, Kripke also at one time said that he felt that JP, from the beginning, added more anger to the Sam character than they had originally intended and they went with that-which I've always, always felt was more of a mistake than a help to the Sam character.

And it's also a pretty well-known fandom fact by now that right from the Pilot, those making this show realized that JA was going to be more of an acting force in the Dean role than they ever could have anticipated or imagined.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Myrelle

[Myrelle]

14 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Only Jensen can make me feel sympathy for a Serial Killer.

When I watch Jensen, I stop seeing Jensen.  He doesn't just play Dean, he becomes Dean.  He feels real.

So Real.

 

14 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I get why Jensen stays but at this point the show is definitely holding him back.

I could not agree more.