Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[Mick Lady]

First, I want to say to 7kstar, I admire your openness here! You are NOT responsible for what happened to your sister, but just the fact you still feel guilt just shows how much of a truly good person you are! I'm SURE your sister feels the same way I do!

 

As for Sam vs Dean, I'm amazed on how much thought you all have put into this. I watch this show and just roll with the story, and haven't really pondered the relationship! Now I'm obsessing! THANKS guys! Now my husband thinks I've gone insane!

 

I use too many exclamation points too, I know. I'm working on it! 

Edited April 23, 2015 by Mick Lady

[catrox14]

MickLady, we're here to help. #SPNFamily

[Mick Lady]

Thanks catrox14!  And there I go again...

[Demented Daisy]

From the media thread:

 

I'm confused about what you want for the character. 

Without describing how Jensen performed in the role, why do you want Dean to be a demon again?

 

 

And I'll add: for what character/story reasons do you want Dean to be a demon again or the King of Hell?

[Aeryn13]

I know the question wasn`t adressed to me but at this point, I wouldn`t want Dean to become a demon again only because it would be redundant. He was one and they did NOTHING with it storywise so the time has come and passed. I loved when he got the Mark of Cain because hell yes, a story of his own finally. But once again, they more or less did nothing with it. And this time they even did nothing twice, pre-demon and post-demon.

 

They should have revealed this Darkness thing beginning Season 10 and then Dean carrying the Mark over the Season would have held so much more mythological weight and story potential.

 

What would interest me now story-wise would be Dean becoming Death or being a vessel for Michael after all or having some sort of supernatural specialness/mytharc to him. They have proven they can`t write "just human" as important or interesting or even pretend they care about it so I`m not interested in any of that. By and large, I want interesting things to happen to my favourite characters a lot more than I want good things happening to them. Sure, the latter should occassionally happen to not make it to bleak but my main interest lies in my viewing enjoyment.  And as an added bonus, it would give Jensen something different to play than the same thing over and over. 

 

That`s why I loved Dean going to hell. The story potential was just too great, even if it was bad for the character himself. I prefer Happy Ends as endings but only when a story actually ends. In between, it`s like the old Chinese curse; may you live in interesting times.   

[bethy]

I was actually relieved that they didn't go any darker with Demon Dean. I can understand an actor's desire to be challenged, but, for me, making a character I love and want the best for evil would have been heart-breaking. If Dean had been possessed, I'd say, go for it, Jensen. But since they made it clear (or as clear as they're able to make anything for me these days) that this wasn't possession, but actually Dean as a demon, then, for me, no and no and no.

[Aeryn13]

I think they could have made him badass more. I understand that they didn`t want to make him dime-a-dozen demon and I`m fully on board but they already had a certain template in Cain. Making Demon!Dean muhahaha-evil, I would have found distasteful and one-dimensional too and in theory the mixture of nihilism and hedonism is quite interesting, they just didn`t make much of it. 

 

In the end, it made Sam`s quest to undemony him a lot less urgent as well. What, is Sam that bothered by bad karaoke? Other than that, Demon!Dean only seemed to kill other demons and he actually saved that one schmuck Sam led into deal-making from going to hell by nulling and voiding his deal. 

 

Certainly, it takes some finesse to write badass bad guy vs. just mustache-twirling but it can be done. And since they went with Demon!Dean, I at least wanted something exciting to come from it. Instead it was like the Star Wars prequels (and I`m not someone who hates them) in that I knew Anakin Skywalker would inevitably fall to evil but at least I would get to see Darth Vader in his prime, fighting Jedi masters all over the place. Instead they only show him going for the kids. Gee, George, thanks for nothing. 

[bethy]

I would have loved a bad-ass Dean that went right up to the line, but didn't cross it. It would have created some lovely will-he-or-won't-he tension that could also have played with whether there was still some good left in a demon that was Dean. But I think (this is my memory anyway) they wanted to say "No, he's all demon, all the time; there's no 'Dean' left," but were too chicken to actually take him to that place. Which, as I said above, I'm glad for. But if they'd left it a little more ambiguous and had there be some question about Demon Dean's nature, it might have been interesting.  

 

But as you note, that would require finesse and that's not in these writers' wheelhouse. 

[SueB]

I thought Dean was pretty badass AND just "bad" in The Prisoner.  He was over the line and there was a definite "will he or won't he" feel to the final Styne killed.  He wasn't a demon but he was well on the way IMO.

[AwesomO4000]

In the end, it made Sam`s quest to undemony him a lot less urgent as well. What, is Sam that bothered by bad karaoke? Other than that, Demon!Dean only seemed to kill other demons and he actually saved that one schmuck Sam led into deal-making from going to hell by nulling and voiding his deal.

 

I get that you are most likely being wry here and not serious, but based on what the story showed, I think there had to be urgency on Sam's part in order for the narrative to make sense. We eventually found out that demon Dean was just killing other demons, but Sam didn't know that - I'm not sure if Sam even found out that detail later on. Sam only knew that Dean was gone, Crowley was a likely suspect, and what he saw on the video: Dean over-enthusiastically killing someone who had attacked him and then flashing black eyes. So for all Sam knew, that someone was a person: albeit one who had tried to kill/harm Dean, so not a good someone, but Sam didn't know it was a demon. So the way Dean killed the demon - though appropriate for killing a demon - likely looked like a whole lot of overkill to Sam if it the dead guy was just a bad guy, so that added to the already anxiety inducing "guess what: Dean is a demon" factor. Not only that, Sam was under the impression at first that that was a demon Crowley had put into Dean's body rather than Dean himself, and Sam wasn't going to tolerate that kind of disrespect of Dean a minute longer than he had to.

 

So maybe for us the viewer, we realized that the mission wasn't perhaps as urgent and could've waited a little longer, but for Sam, there were a few reasons for urgency, because he didn't have all of the details that we as viewers did... and likely it would've looked like Sam was being nonchalant in not trying to fix Dean sooner with only the clues he had. It made sense to me - especially based on how desperate and hard-core Sam had become over time just trying to find Dean before that - that once Sam saw a Dean with black eyes hard-core killing what looked like a person, he was going to go full-tilt, batshit full speed ahead on finding and curing Dean after that (though I'm suspecting Sam's first tactic was going to be exorcism until he found out that Dean was the demon).

[Aeryn13]

 

I get that you are most likely being wry here and not serious, but based on what the story showed, I think there had to be urgency on Sam's part in order for the narrative to make sense.

 

I understood technically why Sam did what did he and why it would feel urgent to him but the writing undermined the whole narrative by showing Demon!Dean basically only doing bad karaoke to the audience.

 

Ever since the brief blips we got of Cain`s power with the red light and everything, I was looking forward to Knight of Hell with Mark of Cain Demon!Dean showing some demon uber-powers but once again, they were loathe to give Dean even the flimsiest shows of supernatural powers. Other than a quick shot of him healing, there was just nothing there. And with the Mark, you only got the Jedi the Blade into his hand and being impervious to Rowena`s spell.

 

Sam got two Seasons of visions and one of the hand of Ipecac. Was it too much to ask to give Dean one year of visible supernatural powers? Apparently yes. It`s always too much to ask, looks like. Too much to ask that he get his turn as Michael, too much to ask that Purgatory is a real storyline for him, too much to ask that Demon!Dean is not dropped after three measly episodes, too much to ask that the MOC plays out epically for him and now too much to ask that he retains a direct link to the mytharc. 

[catrox14]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEAN WINCHESTER!

[catrox14]

So I just want to put this here to demonstrate Jensen Fucking Ackles and his talent. This isn't just Jensen face..this is an attitude that he tracks in Dean FROM Wendigo to Soul Survivor. Fucking Hell. This is amazing
Look at this sassy little shit. I just love this.

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by catrox14

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

I was actually relieved that they didn't go any darker with Demon Dean. I can understand an actor's desire to be challenged, but, for me, making a character I love and want the best for evil would have been heart-breaking. If Dean had been possessed, I'd say, go for it, Jensen. But since they made it clear (or as clear as they're able to make anything for me these days) that this wasn't possession, but actually Dean as a demon, then, for me, no and no and no.

I TOTALLY agree with this. I want my Dean to be human!

[catrox14]

So Jensen confirmed at JIBcon what most of us saw, that the hesitation before Dean descended the stairs to Hell /Limbo in 11.10 was Dean thinking about Hell again.

These writers do not deserve the talents of Jensen Ackles. Thank fuck HE remembers the formative aspects of Dean. And I swear to Gods, Jensen should get a lifetime Emmy award for making Dean more than a caricature or a stereotype and doesn't wait for the fucking writers to create the character.

[MysteryGuest]

I think the writers rely quite a bit on Jensen's talents to just fill in the blanks of their scripts.  It's great that he can do that, but it would be nice if the writing were better so he wouldn't always have to.  Maybe with the influx of new writers we'll be pleasantly surprised.  I'm going to try to remain optimistic until they prove otherwise.

[catrox14]

So I was just reading the Tiger Mommy thread and saw my post about the episode. I put this gif in and suddenly was struck by just how consistent and smart Jensen is with Dean's emotions and reactions to things. I mean look at the hug here when he reunites with Cas.  He's so happy to see him and then his face changes from happiness to something much deeper and he's overwhelmed with IMO I think a mixture of "Thank Gods you are here.Please don't be away from me again" I mean it just guts me.

And in the 2nd gif of him hugging Cas goodbye, he's trying to smile to bring comfort to Cas but his face changes to IMO almost the same look of "Thank Gods you're here and I don't want to be away". Ugh.  It's overwhelming how Jensen can make me feel so deeply about Dean.

[Boopsahoy]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So I was just reading the Tiger Mommy thread and saw my post about the episode. I put this gif in and suddenly was struck by just how consistent and smart Jensen is with Dean's emotions and reactions to things. I mean look at the hug here when he reunites with Cas.  He's so happy to see him and then his face changes from happiness to something much deeper and he's overwhelmed with IMO I think a mixture of "Thank Gods you are here.Please don't be away from me again" I mean it just guts me.

And in the 2nd gif of him hugging Cas goodbye, he's trying to smile to bring comfort to Cas but his face changes to IMO almost the same look of "Thank Gods you're here and I don't want to be away". Ugh.  It's overwhelming how Jensen can make me feel so deeply about Dean.

That's why I watch the show.  Jensen has made Dean is almost as real for me as my friends and family. He has made him into a flesh and blood person. Amazing accomplishment, especially to be this consistent for so many years.

[ahrtee]

I was reading a book on adult-sibling relationships called "Mom Still Likes You Best" and came across this section on children who take over as the adult in the family (she calls them "keepers of the keys") and it seemed a tad familiar:

These keepers of the keys not only provided for their siblings but also exemplified a sense of mission and rightness for the family.  Many of them remain dedicated caregivers all their lives, but they are often unable to get their own needs satisfied.  The younger siblings sometimes carry resentment toward the bossy sister or brother, and there is no way under heaven or on earth for the keeper of the keys to get sufficient gratitude.  We might think of this as an example of the ironic statement, “No good deed goes unpunished,” but something much deeper is operating here: it’s called survival, and even though the surface is pockmarked with conflict, love, loyalty, and gratitude are always just below.  The pull and push of gratitude and annoyance, autonomy and dependence roils these siblings for life.  But they know, and everybody around them knows, the incredible strength of their bond.

(emphasis mine).

I'm not sure if this should go in the Sam thread as well...

[Diane]

10 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I was reading a book on adult-sibling relationships called "Mom Still Likes You Best" and came across this section on children who take over as the adult in the family (she calls them "keepers of the keys") and it seemed a tad familiar:

These keepers of the keys not only provided for their siblings but also exemplified a sense of mission and rightness for the family.  Many of them remain dedicated caregivers all their lives, but they are often unable to get their own needs satisfied.  The younger siblings sometimes carry resentment toward the bossy sister or brother, and there is no way under heaven or on earth for the keeper of the keys to get sufficient gratitude.  We might think of this as an example of the ironic statement, “No good deed goes unpunished,” but something much deeper is operating here: it’s called survival, and even though the surface is pockmarked with conflict, love, loyalty, and gratitude are always just below.  The pull and push of gratitude and annoyance, autonomy and dependence roils these siblings for life.  But they know, and everybody around them knows, the incredible strength of their bond.

(emphasis mine).

I'm not sure if this should go in the Sam thread as well...

This is very familiar, I am 12 and 15 years older than my brothers and this is very much our relationship. Ugh.

[catrox14]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEAN!

?????

 

[gonzosgirrl]

Ahhh, Dean! So happy you're here. :)

Be prepared folks.  IMDb announced today they are shutting down their message boards. Here we come!

[bsquared41]

@gonzosgirrl thanks for posting about this site on the SPN board.  I haven't posted there in a long time but read the threads every now and again and just happened to see the IMDb message board-implosion announcement.  Bummer.  Hopefully this site can be a nice replacement for much of the excellent SPN discussions that were had over there. 

[AwesomO4000]

Welcome @gonzosgirrl and @bsquared41. Many of us here are also refugees from another board - TelevisionWithoutPity - that closed down a couple of years ago. This is actually a friendlier place than it was there, so it's nice here. I hope you will feel free to join us often.

[catrox14]

I second @AwesomO4000's welcome. Good peeps here!

[dambsk80]

hello. coming from imdb boards, not that posted often there, more like larked due to lack of time, so one of the same here I guess.

some Jensen goodies, now that have some time

Jensen & misha shenanigans & favorite friendship

 

[gonzosgirrl]

16 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Welcome @gonzosgirrl and @bsquared41. Many of us here are also refugees from another board - TelevisionWithoutPity - that closed down a couple of years ago. This is actually a friendlier place than it was there, so it's nice here. I hope you will feel free to join us often.

 

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I second @AwesomO4000's welcome. Good peeps here!

Thanks for the welcome! I've been a member since TWoP closed (a refugee for the Doctor Who discussions) but I haven't been active for a long while. Lots of changes here, too. It will be fun learning to navigate!

[PAForrest]

Popping in just to say hi, another refugee from the soon to be defunct imdb boards.

[Icarus]

Another IMBD refugee, don't post a lot but hopefully will do a bit more.

[DittyDotDot]

Welcome to all the newbies! Always good to have fresh blood. No, I didn't mean we were going to be drawing blood, most of us are actually pretty harmless. ;)

Just so you all know, we have a Small Talk thread that's designed for off-topic chatter between posters--like introductions and all. Also, there's the SuperNormal thread for the more actory-stuff about the actors themselves. And a Drooling thread for photos and, well, that one might be self-explanatory.

Edited February 4, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[bearcatfan]

22 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Welcome @gonzosgirrl and @bsquared41. Many of us here are also refugees from another board - TelevisionWithoutPity - that closed down a couple of years ago. This is actually a friendlier place than it was there, so it's nice here. I hope you will feel free to join us often.

One of the reasons I gravitated here rather than the imdb boards was because this place is much more brother friendly. That is, while many have a brother they prefer, bashing of the other brother and/or the actor who portrays him does not occur.

[FlickChick]

Welcome one and all! I think you'll like this board. :)

[DeeDee79]

10 hours ago, bearcatfan said:

One of the reasons I gravitated here rather than the imdb boards was because this place is much more brother friendly. That is, while many have a brother they prefer, bashing of the other brother and/or the actor who portrays him does not occur.

Welcome! After posting on other boards and lurking on this one I was encouraged to post because of the friendly conversation. As you stated most people have their preference regarding the brothers but everyone has a sincere appreciation for both of them and that was what made me happy to join in on the discussion. I have an IMDB account but I mostly posted on the Grimm board but stopped due to all of the bickering :(

[PAForrest]

20 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Welcome to all the newbies! Always good to have fresh blood. No, I didn't mean we were going to be drawing blood, most of us are actually pretty harmless. ;)

Just so you all know, we have a Small Talk thread that's designed for off-topic chatter between posters--like introductions and all. Also, there's the SuperNormal thread for the more actory-stuff about the actors themselves. And a Drooling thread for photos and, well, that one might be self-explanatory.

Thanks, and I will attempt to look around the forum in the next few days. I introduced myself here first because I am predominantly a Dean and Jensen fan, and the forum was suggested by another Dean-fan poster on imdb. I always gravitate to the Dean-positive threads first in whatever forum I test out, and hope to find the forum in general is Dean-positive - or, at least, not a Dean-bashing site. If it is, I'll move on. I'm happy to engage in overall interesting show/episodic conversation as well, and hope that's what I find at this forum as well.

[MysteryGuest]

You will find that we don't bash either character on this site.  We all have our personal favorites, but mainly we're fans of the show.  And there is no show without Sam and Dean.  We may have occasional discussions over our perceptions of how our favorites have been treated by the other characters, and by the writers, but 99.9% of those conversations are well articulated and very civil.  It makes for a fun discussion and we welcome you to join in.

[Boopsahoy]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

Thanks, and I will attempt to look around the forum in the next few days. I introduced myself here first because I am predominantly a Dean and Jensen fan, and the forum was suggested by another Dean-fan poster on imdb. I always gravitate to the Dean-positive threads first in whatever forum I test out, and hope to find the forum in general is Dean-positive - or, at least, not a Dean-bashing site. If it is, I'll move on. I'm happy to engage in overall interesting show/episodic conversation as well, and hope that's what I find at this forum as well.

Theres no bashing here of characters, actors, and other posters. You will love it here. I am boopsahoy on IMDB.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, juppschmitz said:

Actually, I do find the title of this Dean thread kind of disrespectful of Dean, and by extension Jensen. (And the people who prefer him over Sam/Jared.)

I know it's a quote from Crowley's phone, but of all the titles one could have come up with to go for, basically, "not Sam"??

I felt the same way the moment that I saw this thread title.

[ILoveReading]

I actually feel the same way about the thread title, but since I don't post a lot I didn't feel comfortable speaking up. 

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, juppschmitz said:

Actually, I do find the title of this Dean thread kind of disrespectful of Dean, and by extension Jensen. (And the people who prefer him over Sam/Jared.)

I know it's a quote from Crowley's phone, but of all the titles one could have come up with to go for, basically, "not Sam"??

Well....

Then again, I don't come here often enough to have the right to complain.

If you dig back through the thread, you'll see there was some discussion about the title of the thread when it was started, but there didn't seem to be a consensus at the time. I wasn't too keen on it either, but also mostly indifferent to thread titles. I'm not sure I like the idea Crowley named Dean's thread...he is the king of rotten, after all ;)

A mod can change the title if we come up with one we can agree on. I can start a poll if everyone wants to throw out some options. I'm not very good with thread titles myself, but liked one that was thrown out when the thread was created: "Dean Winchester: A GED and  a Give 'em Hell Attitude."

What say you all?

[ILoveReading]

A poll is a good idea. 

I also suggest, Dean Winchester, saving the world since 1983

It was the thread title of our old Dean squad.

[PAForrest]

10 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

If you dig back through the thread, you'll see there was some discussion about the title of the thread when it was started, but there didn't seem to be a consensus at the time. I wasn't too keen on it either, but also mostly indifferent to thread titles. I'm not sure I like the idea Crowley named Dean's thread...he is the king of rotten, after all ;)

A mod can change the title if we come up with one we can agree on. I can start a poll if everyone wants to throw out some options. I'm not very good with thread titles myself, but liked one that was thrown out when the thread was created: "Dean Winchester: A GED and  a Give 'em Hell Attitude."

What say you all?

I say that's a good idea, because I hate the title name too as it's not really about Dean. But, again, I'm another newbie who didn't think I could say anything about it. But I'm definitely up for a poll for new names. Nothing springs to mind at the moment, I'll give it a think. However, I like your suggestion of "Dean Winchester: A GED and a Give 'em Hell Attitude".

[juppschmitz]

14 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean Winchester, saving the world since 1983

 

26 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Dean Winchester: A GED and  a Give 'em Hell Attitude.

I like both of these, and I'd also like to suggest just for diversity's sake, and to keep it kind of in line with the Sam thread: "Dean Winchester aka The Righteous Man"

[DittyDotDot]

11 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

Dean Winchester aka The Righteous Man

I like that one too!

28 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean Winchester, saving the world since 1983

And, this one!

 

I'll give it till tomorrow morning then compile all the options into a poll, if that's agreeable?

[Icarus]

Only a newbie on this board but my vote would go for Dean Winchester, saving the world since 1983 since that title can stay for as long as people want it too - I guess the righteous Man one could as well but my vote is for Saving the world etc. 

[Demented Daisy]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

A poll is a good idea. 

I also suggest, Dean Winchester, saving the world since 1983

It was the thread title of our old Dean squad.

Personally, I object to transferring thread titles from one place to another.  No offense to imdb refugees (as many of us are TWoP refugees), but we've created our own space over the past few years and I don't think we really want to be the "new TWoP" or "new imdb".

If we want to keep it in line with the Sam thread, then shouldn't this one be "Dean aka Squirrel"?

[ILoveReading]

If we're keeping it in line I do like Dean Winchester, AKA The Righteous Man

[catrox14]

I dont if we change the name or not but Moose and Squirrel are still Crowley given nicknames.

Off the top of my head.

Dean Winchester : He Killed Hitler. Really

Dean Winchester: A Man of His Word

Dean Winchester: Defying Expectations since 1979

Dean Winchester: He Kills Gods

[ILoveReading]

Quote

Dean Winchester: Defying Expectations since 1979

I really like this one.  It's so true to who Dean is

[juppschmitz]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

I'll give it till tomorrow morning then compile all the options into a poll, if that's agreeable?

Sounds cool :)

[juppschmitz]

1 hour ago, Demented Daisy said:

If we want to keep it in line with the Sam thread, then shouldn't this one be "Dean aka Squirrel"?

Sounds cool, too :D