Unpopular Opinions: "The Post-Lotto Episodes Were the Best!"

[beckie]

12 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

I never got why so much energy went into her relationship with Mark. He was cute but I never felt they fit particularly well especially given how miserable they seemed for so much of the relationship. David and Darlene I understood for the most part, Mark and Becky not so much.

I didn't much like Becky anyway, but I loathed Mark. I thought they made a terrible couple, and wondered why they chose to bring back Becky AND Mark, instead of a freshly divorced Becky.   

[Chas411]

3 minutes ago, beckie said:

I didn't much like Becky anyway, but I loathed Mark. I thought they made a terrible couple, and wondered why they chose to bring back Becky AND Mark, instead of a freshly divorced Becky.   

It definetly would have provided them with a lot more material for Becky besides "Becky and Mark fight over money, Roseanne tries to interfere, Mark stomps out and Becky screams at her and stomps out after him." I never even felt he spoke much - he definetly didn't get the development David did.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Chas411

[Dee]

Mark actually got a lot of development. In a lot of ways he was a lot like Dan. Not book smart, but incredibly hard working, intensely loving and very loyal.

No, he wasn't as sensitive as David, but David had a tendency to turn into a creepy jerk if/when he didn't get his way. With Mark, what you saw was primarily what you got.

[Rebecca]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Sarah has the look of someone who was raised by educated , successful parents. She's obviously had dental care, good nutrition and training in good manners and social graces. Lecy looks like someone raised by Roseanne. I think that's why I never bought Sarah as Becky. YMMV

Sarah looks like an actress, Lecy looks like an average person. No one else (except maybe Mark, and the stupidity  of the character kind of overrode it) on the show had “Hollywood good looks” and that made new addition Sarah stick out even more. One of the great things about the show, imo, is that no one was too “Hollywood perfect” and Sarah kind of ruined that.

53 minutes ago, beckie said:

I didn't much like Becky anyway, but I loathed Mark. I thought they made a terrible couple, and wondered why they chose to bring back Becky AND Mark, instead of a freshly divorced Becky.   

Yeah, I could buy their relationship and marriage at first but I definitely think a divorce would’ve been more realistic considering they weren’t happy for long and were so young when they got married. It just never felt like a lifelong relationship to me.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Rebecca

[UYI]

I guess my UO is that, despite the rocky beginning of their marriage, I bought Mark and Becky's relationship completely by the time the original series ended. Maybe part of the reason is because the focus on them lessened over the years, but I saw them as another Dan and Roseanne, and in a positive way, too. It's why I love Mark's line at the end of "Becky Howser, M.D." He's worried about Becky leaving him if she goes back to college, but when Roseanne asks him if he would leave her over her returning to school, he immediately says, "I would never leave your daughter for anything." And he says it in such a quiet, sincere way, that I completely buy it. 

[CherithCutestory]

My UO is that for all Roseanne's bluster and noise she was really pretty much a giant pushover. There was pretty much nothing her kids or Jackie could do that she wouldn't get over in one fight (which is why all politics aside her and Jackie not speaking was unrealistic for them to me.) Dan was the terrifying one you'd never want to cross. 

And I thought Darlene and David were more like Roseanne and Dan than Becky and Mark. Except Darlene was Dan with Roseanne's mouth and David was Roseanne with Dan's quietness. Like Dan Darlene could be genuinely terrifying and would cut you off if you crossed her. Like Roseanne David was ultimately a people pleaser and peacemaker. 

I don't have strong feelings about Mark and Becky. But they never just liked each other the way Roseanne and Dan did. Roseanne and Dan genuinely enjoyed each other's company and were always supportive. Supportive to a fault on occasion. (Roseanne would never be the wife to drag down her husband's dreams. Even when his dreams were unrealistic and doomed. And Dan enabled some of her worst impulses.) You never got the impression that Mark and Becky just really loved spending time with each other. Or that they made each other laugh the way Roseanne and Dan did. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[Rap541]

On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 9:28 AM, HeySandyStrange said:

Honestly, it is a bit hard for me to feel sorry for Becky regarding her college fund. Realistically, even if there was one, how much did she really think her parents could've saved for her? $5,000 to $10,000 maybe, which is pretty damn generous for two working class people with bills and two other kids to support. And $5,000-10,000 would've only maybe bought her a few semesters at he local community college, assuming Becky would've even deigned to go to a community college.

Speaking as someone who went to college during that time, at a state university, 10k would have been a year of tuition at my school. I got a four year degree with absolutely no parental help and about 14k in loans that were paid off by 2003 - and I didn't end up in some super high pay career either.

I will take the unpopular view that Becky in a lot of ways does take after Roseanne. She doesn't think when she's mad, she does dumb things without considering the long term consequences and she can't ever admit that she was wrong or made a bad decision. Just like her mom. Most of her dumb dumb decisions happened when she was pissed about something, and I don't recall either version of Becky ever conceding that dropping out of school her senior year was pretty damn dumb in retrospect.

I will also take the unpopular opinion that the new shows were pretty damn depressing. Twenty one years later, the Connor family is mired in poverty with little to no hope of ever escaping. I have too many family members who seriously cant afford their medications they need to live to have found the opening scenes anything but dark, and I thought it was pretty dark all around.

[Chas411]

5 hours ago, CherithCutestory said:

But they never just liked each other the way Roseanne and Dan did.

This! 

Id actually say the same for Darlene and David in that although I felt there was more of a friendship there i never felt there was mutual respect/companionship the way there was between Roseanne/Dan. I always felt they got back together because her family liked him and she panicked that she couldn't find a guy she liked straight away even though she didn't really give herself anytime. Then he just took her back without question even though she treated him pretty badly when they first split. I just didn't feel he was enough for her. 

I thought both relationships were perfect examples of settling too soon and it holds up for me that neither marriage worked out. I know Mark died and were not sure how they'll address it but I could buy years of ups and downs for him and Becky before he passed. 

[Chas411]

Quote

No, he wasn't as sensitive as David, but David had a tendency to turn into a creepy jerk if/when he didn't get his way. With Mark, what you saw was primarily what you got.

Oh absolutely 100% with you. David was so clingy in the latter years. 

For the record while I didn't think there was much about Mark, I do agree he loved Becky and was loyal etc. I'd imagine a lot of their marital issues came down to Becky im that she was bratty and acted like a child a lot of the time in that relationship. I also felt that she used her relationship with Mark as a means to hide from bettering herself, finishing school, starting a career etc. Her thinking seemed to be shed get him sorted and once he was earning money etc than she'd be able to sort herself out. I saw Mark growing tired of that in OR and I could see him getting sick of it as the years went by if they continued to struggle.

[qtpye]

11 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Speaking as someone who went to college during that time, at a state university, 10k would have been a year of tuition at my school. I got a four year degree with absolutely no parental help and about 14k in loans that were paid off by 2003 - and I didn't end up in some super high pay career either.

I will take the unpopular view that Becky in a lot of ways does take after Roseanne. She doesn't think when she's mad, she does dumb things without considering the long term consequences and she can't ever admit that she was wrong or made a bad decision. Just like her mom. Most of her dumb dumb decisions happened when she was pissed about something, and I don't recall either version of Becky ever conceding that dropping out of school her senior year was pretty damn dumb in retrospect.

I will also take the unpopular opinion that the new shows were pretty damn depressing. Twenty one years later, the Connor family is mired in poverty with little to no hope of ever escaping. I have too many family members who seriously cant afford their medications they need to live to have found the opening scenes anything but dark, and I thought it was pretty dark all around.

When the show premiered Roseanne was 36 to 38 and way ahead of both of her daughters who were in their 40's. She had a fantastic marriage, a house, three kids that were relatively happy, a decent job a the factory, and a loving husband who was doing well in the drywall business.  I am a little younger than DJ and when this show premiered I was sure that the kids (particularly Becky) would go on to be better off. I expected Becky to have a fairly middle-class lifestyle with a great job by the time she was 36. I appreciate that the show is being so realistic, even though it is depressing.

5 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Oh absolutely 100% with you. David was so clingy in the latter years. 

For the record while I didn't think there was much about Mark, I do agree he loved Becky and was loyal etc. I'd imagine a lot of their marital issues came down to Becky im that she was bratty and acted like a child a lot of the time in that relationship. I also felt that she used her relationship with Mark as a means to hide from bettering herself, finishing school, starting a career etc. Her thinking seemed to be shed get him sorted and once he was earning money etc than she'd be able to sort herself out. I saw Mark growing tired of that in OR and I could see him getting sick of it as the years went by if they continued to struggle.

Quote

I guess my UO is that, despite the rocky beginning of their marriage, I bought Mark and Becky's relationship completely by the time the original series ended. Maybe part of the reason is because the focus on them lessened over the years, but I saw them as another Dan and Roseanne, and in a positive way, too. It's why I love Mark's line at the end of "Becky Howser, M.D." He's worried about Becky leaving him if she goes back to college, but when Roseanne asks him if he would leave her over her returning to school, he immediately says, "I would never leave your daughter for anything." And he says it in such a quiet, sincere way, that I completely buy

One of the big problems was that it was canon in everyone's head that "Beck married down" or "Becky would be awesome but she threw away her life for Mark" and I am sure Mark began to believe this as well. He was a punk who was abandoned by his own family and the Connors did not think he was good enough for his daughter, at least at first. Of course, he did make the worst first impression possible when they went out on their first date.

When he says he would never leave Becky, I think it is a combination of he really thinks he cannot ever do any better and by that point, the Conners are the only real family he has known.

Again, when Becky got over her immense physical attraction to him and they settled into real marriage, she realized that she was not satisfied and really wanted to "lift him up" to be worthy of her. She was shocked when he flunked out of trade school because she was married to a guy who flunked out of trade school.

Neither David or Mark were anywhere near the awesome but often flawed husband material that was Dan Conner. When I was growing up everyone wanted Dan to be either their husband or father (depending on your age).

I never saw Mark and Becky being a great match. I imagine when she stopped being dazzled by his good looks and him being great in bed, she began to also think " I really don't want to be stuck with this type of guy for the rest of my life".  In Becky Houser Md, she just shrugs off her and Mark breaking up if she becomes succesful. At this point, she is okay to leave him behind.

Edited March 29, 2018 by qtpye

[UYI]

7 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Id actually say the same for Darlene and David in that although I felt there was more of a friendship there i never felt there was mutual respect/companionship the way there was between Roseanne/Dan. I always felt they got back together because her family liked him and she panicked that she couldn't find a guy she liked straight away even though she didn't really give herself anytime. Then he just took her back without question even though she treated him pretty badly when they first split. I just didn't feel he was enough for her. 

 

Yeah, I understand that he wound up living with her family (and why that happened), but that had to make moving on from their relationship that much harder and more awkward. 

[Rap541]

(looks at topic description)

(looks about nervously)

I really did like the post lotto season....

[BitterApple]

On 3/30/2018 at 3:56 PM, Rap541 said:

(looks at topic description)

(looks about nervously)

I really did like the post lotto season....

You...liked...the...post...lotto...episodes?

 

 

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

You...liked...the...post...lotto...episodes?

So did I.  This is one of a handful of long-running series I enjoyed the entire way through; season nine is my least-favorite season of the series, and my impression was more favorable upon rewatch a few years ago than it was originally, but, yes, I like them on the whole.  They could have done a far better job exploring the fish out of water aspect of New Money trying and failing to fit into these various spheres to which they suddenly have access and the change in the way friends interact with them after they strike it rich, but what's there I like.  I appreciate the experimenting with different ways of storytelling in what's known to be a final season.  I love the spa episode, really like the AbFab crossover, like the much-maligned Roseambo episode, and can find something to appreciate in most of them.  And I fucking love the finale voiceover almost in its entirety (other than the husband switch).

Edited April 6, 2018 by Bastet

[Dee]

On 3/30/2018 at 6:56 PM, Rap541 said:

(looks at topic description)

(looks about nervously)

I really did like the post lotto season....

I did too. Except Roseambo and the two episode James Brolin arc.

[Rap541]

Yeah - I loved the idea that they WON the lottery. I loved the way Jackie found out and walked into the house and Roseanne ran out in her bra and everyone was all "we have to tell Dan gently" and then shrieked "WE WON THE LOTTO!" and rode his bitch ass like a horse all over the living room. 

I loved Leon being horrified :)

I loved that they gave Leon and Nancy the restaurant. 

Most of the episodes were funny fish out of water stories that made me laugh. Yes, it wasn't the BEST season and the Rambo  and James Brolin things were stupid... But it was fun and I knew it was the last season and they were having fun.

And then the final episode... I got it. I totally got the idea of writing the book to set things right. No, I didn't like the husband swap, but that was about the only thing I didn't like. I thought the whole season was a way to have fun but to also send off the show with that final bit of honesty, that things rarely end with "and then we won the lottery". It was a punch to the gut but a good punch to the gut. It was daring and different to concede the reality that things don't always end happily ever after. I loved Family Ties as a kid, for example, but the finale episode was pure treacle and this? Was bluntly real. 

[chocolatine]

19 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Yeah - I loved the idea that they WON the lottery. I loved the way Jackie found out and walked into the house and Roseanne ran out in her bra and everyone was all "we have to tell Dan gently" and then shrieked "WE WON THE LOTTO!" and rode his bitch ass like a horse all over the living room. 

I loved Leon being horrified :)

I loved that they gave Leon and Nancy the restaurant. 

Those parts were great, but it was the absurd stuff like hanging out with eccentric rich people in NYC and the terrorists on the train that lost me. The worst was the "Prince of Moldavia" because I'm actually from Moldavia (now Moldova) and I couldn't get over what a load of crap that whole story was, starting with the fact there hasn't been a prince of Moldavia since 1862.

I wouldn't have minded the lotto win and "it was all a book" ending if the season had still been about the Conners but with money, but Roseanne turned it into a completely different show.

Edited April 6, 2018 by chocolatine

[Mmmfloorpie]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Those parts were great, but it was the absurd stuff like hanging out with eccentric rich people in NYC and the terrorists on the train that lost me. The worst was the "Prince of Moldavia" because I'm actually from Moldavia (now Moldova) and I couldn't get over what a load of crap that whole story was, starting with the fact there hasn't been a prince of Moldavia since 1862.

I wouldn't have minded the lotto win and "it was all a book" ending if the season had still been about the Conners but with money, but Roseanne turned it into a completely different show.

I'm not from Moldova but I can't stand Jim Varney. Imagine how I feel!

[Mu Shu]

On 3/28/2018 at 9:42 PM, Rap541 said:

Speaking as someone who went to college during that time, at a state university, 10k would have been a year of tuition at my school. I got a four year degree with absolutely no parental help and about 14k in loans that were paid off by 2003 - and I didn't end up in some super high pay career either.

I will take the unpopular view that Becky in a lot of ways does take after Roseanne. She doesn't think when she's mad, she does dumb things without considering the long term consequences and she can't ever admit that she was wrong or made a bad decision. Just like her mom. Most of her dumb dumb decisions happened when she was pissed about something, and I don't recall either version of Becky ever conceding that dropping out of school her senior year was pretty damn dumb in retrospect.

I will also take the unpopular opinion that the new shows were pretty damn depressing. Twenty one years later, the Connor family is mired in poverty with little to no hope of ever escaping. I have too many family members who seriously cant afford their medications they need to live to have found the opening scenes anything but dark, and I thought it was pretty dark all around.

It’s dark on paper, but the show pulls it off without being overly depressive so far, I think.

i wish they had presented Dan and Roseanne as having paid the house off, on social security, with part time jobs to maintain a modest standard of living.  It’s hard to believe 21 years later they couldn’t get their shit together.  All of their kids left home, and they had two incomes.  They had some tough breaks, but they’re intelligent resilient people.  Worse case scenario they let the damn house go and rent an apartment/buy a senior condo.

Having them all in bad financial straits is pretty miserable. I hope they address that with the girls getting decent jobs.  

[Annber03]

The part that always gets to me from Roseanne's series finale voiceover thing is her comment about how, when you're a blue collar woman and your husband dies, you feel a bit lost, and feel like your stability's been shaken. That really hit home, because I'm pretty sure that's how my mom felt after my dad passed away a number of years back. We had a rough period there as we were slowly working to put our lives back together, and I remember seeing my mom go through some very stressful moments. I do agree that whole bit of the finale is really well done, and very emotional. 

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

i wish they had presented Dan and Roseanne as having paid the house off, on social security, with part time jobs to maintain a modest standard of living.

I wish that too, but I don't think it's unrealistic. I know people in their mid-60s who've refinanced and borrowed against their house so often that they're still not close to paying it off. 

[LadyintheLoop]

4 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

It’s hard to believe 21 years later they couldn’t get their shit together.  All of their kids left home, and they had two incomes.  

I'd been thinking that they should have gained some ground once all three kids left home. 

 

Then I remembered Jerry.

[SparklesBitch]

On 4/5/2018 at 11:45 PM, chocolatine said:

Those parts were great, but it was the absurd stuff like hanging out with eccentric rich people in NYC and the terrorists on the train that lost me. The worst was the "Prince of Moldavia" because I'm actually from Moldavia (now Moldova) and I couldn't get over what a load of crap that whole story was, starting with the fact there hasn't been a prince of Moldavia since 1862.

I wouldn't have minded the lotto win and "it was all a book" ending if the season had still been about the Conners but with money, but Roseanne turned it into a completely different show.

Same here except for the part about being from Moldova. :) 

To expand upon this point....for me, I didn’t like the lotto win because after it, the show felt like a retailer sitcom instead of like hanging out with friends from down the street that you’ve known for 20 years. It didn’t feel like it was about real people anymore. 

[UYI]

I think I'm one of the few people who isn't super-bothered by Lecy's voice. She sounded like this in interviews a decade ago, and I would argue that she even sounded a bit like this way back in 1995, when she came back for the eighth season. It could just be that her voice got a little deeper after she left the show, which was in 1993, when she was still a fairly young teenager, around 17 or 18 (and yes, it's possible she smoked and that did some damage, too, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and leave it at that--she has SEEMED high at times in past interviews, but we don't actually KNOW she did drugs/had addiction issues, so I'll leave it alone unless she says something herself). 

Edited April 11, 2018 by UYI

[HoboClayton]

Yeah. It doesn't bother me. But, I have noticed it. It has seemed to go back and forth a little. This episode, it seemed like it had mellowed out a bit. But, I'm with you on your post.  And my forever unpopular opinion is that I still hate David, and wish he wasn't coming back. 

[methodwriter85]

I really don't mind that they won't mention what Mark's death was from. It very clearly took place a long time ago (Darlene has hinted that it happened in Becky's 20's and that's why she's mentally stuck at that age), and it's kind of a "damned if they don't, damned if they don't" situation. If they say Mark died from a heroin overdose, it could be seen as exploiting a family's real tragedy for ratings and to make a PSA about the dangers of drug use. If they try to give Mark a hero's death or something (like Jack on This Is Us), then it could be seen as trying to "rewrite" Glenn's death or something and giving into the social stigma that exists about heroin addicts. And then you get the people who are angry that they AREN'T using Mark's death to make a social statement about the cost of heroin addiction, which is a very, very hot topic right now.

It might just be the Glee route where they basically went, "Yes, the character of Finn is dead. He is gone. And we are not going to mention how or why because it doesn't matter in the end. He's just gone. Now let's see the characters dealt with this loss."

Edited April 13, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Rap541]

I guess I just don't see why Mark would have to have died of a drug overdose. I know Glenn died that way but from a character standpoint, Mark was a bit dim, but not into drugs. He was in a stable relationship, he was working, and he seemed to drink beer for the most part. The actor's tragedy doesn't have to be reflected. Honestly "keeled over from a brain aneurysm" really works here. 

[Chas411]

Agreed, they're honouring him by not recasting and having him mentioned on the show. I don't think they need to turn Mark into Glenn though for it to work.

[chocolatine]

Mark's death could have been from something as banal as a car crash or workplace accident. There are many things besides drug addiction that can lead to an untimely death. FWIW, I don't think that saying that Mark died from a drug overdose is necessarily disrespectful to his family if it's handled in a sensitive manner. What would be more disrespectful IMO is if Mark's death is played for laughs, like the death of Crystal's first husband Sonny.

[Rap541]

Unpopular opinion but I rather thought that Crystal's acknowledgement at the bridge that Sonny was poured into (it was something stupid like that) that she loved him and she knew he cheated and she needed to move on was pretty touching.

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Unpopular opinion but I rather thought that Crystal's acknowledgement at the bridge that Sonny was poured into (it was something stupid like that) that she loved him and she knew he cheated and she needed to move on was pretty touching.

Yes, but the story of how he died, and then Crystal, Roseanne, and Dan looking for the right pillar, was played for laughs. I hope they don't do anything like that with Mark.

[JAYJAY1979]

I actually didn't like David and Darlene together... and wish when they had broken up in the 7th season.. they had stayed broken up and co existed as friends.  Roseanne seemed to interfere more with Darlene's life then with Becky's.. and that's because Roseanne was secretly jealous that Darlene was going to potentially have the life she'd always wanted.. and figured her being with David would ensure Darlene wouldn't totally cut her off.

 

For as much as Roseanne talked about wanting her kids to do better, she certainly went out of her way to make sure the kid with the best chance didn't accomplish that goal.  However, Darlene operated more on logic and reasoning then emotion.. which Roseanne hadn't anticipated.  I've often wondered if Darlene growing up in a fairly functional household without all the angst that Roseanne did gave her the tools?

[Bastet]

7 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I actually didn't like David and Darlene together

I think they met at just the right time and were very good for each other as first loves, but when she went to Chicago that should have been the natural end to the romantic aspect of the relationship.  They were horrible for each other after that, and kept forcing a relationship that had run its course.  Not only would it have been healthier for them, but it would have been far more interesting for me to watch had they learned how to develop a friendship that took into account their history and the fact he was now part of the family.

[peacheslatour]

What the hell was wrong with David anyway? When he lived with Darlene in Chicago all he did was sit in that crummy apartment all day long. No TV, no internet not, even any books. And why didn't he get a fucking job? And he's supposed to be an artist? Why didn't he do something with that apartment? It had some potential. A little paint, some posters and for gawds sake why didn't he paint the fireplace? That's the first thing I would have done.

Edited April 17, 2018 by peacheslatour

[tomvilchez1999]

29 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I actually didn't like David and Darlene together... and wish when they had broken up in the 7th season.. they had stayed broken up and co existed as friends.  Roseanne seemed to interfere more with Darlene's life then with Becky's.. and that's because Roseanne was secretly jealous that Darlene was going to potentially have the life she'd always wanted.. and figured her being with David would ensure Darlene wouldn't totally cut her off.

 

For as much as Roseanne talked about wanting her kids to do better, she certainly went out of her way to make sure the kid with the best chance didn't accomplish that goal.  However, Darlene operated more on logic and reasoning then emotion.. which Roseanne hadn't anticipated.  I've often wondered if Darlene growing up in a fairly functional household without all the angst that Roseanne did gave her the tools?

Hmm, I feel Roseanne sabotaged Becky's chances at success more. It's just that after Becky left, she focused all of her attention on Darlene.

[chocolatine]

14 minutes ago, tomvilchez1999 said:

Hmm, I feel Roseanne sabotaged Becky's chances at success more.

Becky sabotaged her chances at success all on her own by running off with Mark and not pursuing any education after that. Roseanne and Dan even gave her money later to go to community college and Becky chose instead to send Mark to trade school.

[peacheslatour]

When she thought Darlene was doing drugs she was going to make her drop out of school. If it hadn't been for the strenuous objections of Dan and Jackie she would have ruined Darlene's life too.

Edited April 17, 2018 by peacheslatour

[chocolatine]

6 minutes ago, tomvilchez1999 said:

Roseanne and Dan squandered Becky's college money without a second thought and then did absolutely nothing to come to a solution.

They needed the money for living expenses - that's not "squandering." Becky wasn't entitled to a college fund, and if she'd been even a fraction as smart as everyone said she was, she would have figured out how to put herself through school, like millions of people do every year. She was accepted by a state university, which still had affordable tuition in the 90s. All she had to do was talk to her high school guidance counselor and/or the university's financial aid office, and they'd have told her exactly what she needed to do to make it work. The choices to quit high school, run off with Mark, work at the faux-Hooters instead of going back to school, etc., were all Becky's. Roseanne is a meddler, but she didn't force anyone into anything.

[UYI]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

What the hell was wrong with David anyway? When he lived with Darlene in Chicago all he did was sit in that crummy apartment all day long. No TV, no internet not, even any books. And why didn't he get a fucking job? And he's supposed to be an artist? Why didn't he do something with that apartment? It had some potential. A little paint, some posters and for gawds sake why didn't he paint the fireplace? That's the first thing I would have done.

Well to be fair, the Internet hadn't taken over the world yet in 1993-1994. 1995 was its first big year on an national/international scale. ;)

[methodwriter85]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

What the hell was wrong with David anyway? When he lived with Darlene in Chicago all he did was sit in that crummy apartment all day long. No TV, no internet not, even any books. And why didn't he get a fucking job? And he's supposed to be an artist? Why didn't he do something with that apartment? It had some potential. A little paint, some posters and for gawds sake why didn't he paint the fireplace? That's the first thing I would have done.

See, and this is EXACTLY why I'm not surprised David ended bailing on his kids and Darlene. He always came off like a dreamer who didn't really know how to deal with the realities of life. I don't see how this is out of character for him at all. He bailed when things got too tough. It happens.

[tessaray]

This topic is for UO - extended character discussions should be taken to the appropriate character thread. 

[qtpye]

18 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I actually didn't like David and Darlene together... and wish when they had broken up in the 7th season.. they had stayed broken up and co existed as friends.  Roseanne seemed to interfere more with Darlene's life then with Becky's.. and that's because Roseanne was secretly jealous that Darlene was going to potentially have the life she'd always wanted.. and figured her being with David would ensure Darlene wouldn't totally cut her off.

 

For as much as Roseanne talked about wanting her kids to do better, she certainly went out of her way to make sure the kid with the best chance didn't accomplish that goal.  However, Darlene operated more on logic and reasoning then emotion.. which Roseanne hadn't anticipated.  I've often wondered if Darlene growing up in a fairly functional household without all the angst that Roseanne did gave her the tools?

 

16 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

When she thought Darlene was doing drugs she was going to make her drop out of school. If it hadn't been for the strenuous objections of Dan and Jackie she would have ruined Darlene's life too.

My unpopular opinion is that sometimes even loving mothers actually sabotage their kids and do not even realize it. Roseanne was a very possessive person when it came to her family. Her codependent relationship with Jackie and her daughters is based on her love, but fearing their abandonment and all three ladies making stupid decisions where they blame Roseanne instead of taking agency for their own lives.

I also have a UO that if any of the former three had gone on to bigger and better things Roseanne probably would be at least a little jealous.

In one hand, Roseanne and David's relationship has always been very touching and JG is doing a great job reprising his role. On the other hand,  Roseanne's love for David helped put Darlene in the current situations that she is in. If Roseanne had just let David go, Darlene and he would have broken up naturally and she would not be stuck with the burden of raising two kids on her own because her husband abandoned his family. If Darlene was childless, like Becky, her life probably would have been easier. Or if she had married a man who lived up to his responsibilities and not left her holding the bag.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

I also have a UO that if any of the former three had gone on to bigger and better things Roseanne probably would be at least a little jealous.

We saw that on the show.  The "Don't get above your raising" phenomenon is real, and it played out when Darlene was offered and turned down the copywriting job because she wanted to do something more meaningful with her writing skills.  Darlene became a "them" rather than an "us," and suddenly all her sarcastic remarks about the house and the town - the same things they'd all been saying for years - stung and pissed them off.  They wanted better for their kids (their whole motto about their parenting goal being to make life 50% easier for their kids than they'd had it) but there was also a layer of resentment and jealousy that popped up against their will when it happened.  It was another way the show reflected a common reality.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

The "Don't get above your raising" phenomenon is real,

I've never heard of such a thing. Is that real?

[Bastet]

Yep, often written as don't get above your raisin'

In addition to academic discussion - not to mention that going on among those who "got out" of their small/poor towns - there have been songs, and apparently even a documentary, about the subject over the years. 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Bastet

[peacheslatour]

Bizarre. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Yep, often written as don't get above your raisin'

In addition to academic discussion - not to mention that going on among those who "got out" of their small/poor towns - there have been songs, and apparently even a documentary, about the subject over the years. 

Very true and it is even more pronounced in countries with more rigid class structures like the U.K.

 

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

We saw that on the show.  The "Don't get above your raising" phenomenon is real, and it played out when Darlene was offered and turned down the copywriting job because she wanted to do something more meaningful with her writing skills.  Darlene became a "them" rather than an "us," and suddenly all her sarcastic remarks about the house and the town - the same things they'd all been saying for years - stung and pissed them off.  They wanted better for their kids (their whole motto about their parenting goal being to make life 50% easier for their kids than they'd had it) but there was also a layer of resentment and jealousy that popped up against their will when it happened.  It was another way the show reflected a common reality.

Another example was when Darlene got an excellent opportunity to go to writing school in Chicago and Roseanne was upset because "Darlene was going to leave her". I remember being a kid and totally shocked at Roseanne's attitude. We all knew that Darlene was not a great student, like Becky, so a traditional college was probably not the right path for her, though she was smart. It was kind of amazing that she got into this type of writing school based on her raw talent. Roseanne was only thinking about herself and how this decision would affect her. 

The horrible cousin Ronnie episode, Rosanne is openly jealous of Ronnie for getting out of Landford and making something of herself. Roseanne subliminally has convinced herself that no one can make it out of Landford and when someone succeeds it forces her to look at her own shortcomings and fears.

[Bastet]

55 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Another example was when Darlene got an excellent opportunity to go to writing school in Chicago and Roseanne was upset because "Darlene was going to leave her". I remember being a kid and totally shocked at Roseanne's attitude. We all knew that Darlene was not a great student, like Becky, so a traditional college was probably not the right path for her, though she was smart. It was kind of amazing that she got into this type of writing school based on her raw talent. Roseanne was only thinking about herself and how this decision would affect her. 

Her initial reaction that that situation doesn't surprise me, without even getting into the "don't get above your raising" issue, given Darlene's age and the fact Becky had run off not too long before.  "Why do all my kids want to leave me [before the typical age kids leave]?" was but one of her reactions, resistance is a typical first response to the idea of your high-school-aged kid moving to another city, and they realize in fairly short order they should let her take this opportunity.  (And I love when Darlene says never mind, she's decided not to go, and Roseanne says, "Staying here against her will is one thing.  But staying here because she wants to - that's sick.")

[methodwriter85]

On 3/28/2018 at 7:35 PM, beckie said:

I didn't much like Becky anyway, but I loathed Mark. I thought they made a terrible couple, and wondered why they chose to bring back Becky AND Mark, instead of a freshly divorced Becky.   

I thought it was really obvious that Glenn Quinn was pretty beloved by the cast. Mark was probably kept for that reason even though it would have made more sense for Becky to have divorced Mark. I think if Lecy had stayed in the role, they would have gotten or been on their way to divorce.

Edited April 19, 2018 by methodwriter85

[chocolatine]

18 minutes ago, Bastet said:

resistance is a typical first response to the idea of your high-school-aged kid moving to another city, and they realize in fairly short order they should let her take this opportunity.

That's exactly how I see it as well. Roseanne's gut instinct is to be overprotective and to meddle, but at no point does she try to thwart her daughters' ambitions. She might have had some conflicting emotions if her kids had become much more successful than her, but I'm sure she'd still have been immensely proud of them (phew, that was a lot of conditional clauses).

Edited April 19, 2018 by chocolatine