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Unpopular Opinions: "The Post-Lotto Episodes Were the Best!"

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My ultimate Roseanne UO is I don't hate the "It was all a book" reveal.  In fact, I kind of love it.  I hate the husband switch, where Darlene was actually with Mark and Becky with David, but I love the basic idea of Roseanne Conner regaining a sense of control over her life by writing it down and changing what she didn't like along the way. I like the voice-over - when it first aired, and Roseanne said "I lost Dan" as the camera panned to an empty chair, I got chills - and I like Roseanne walking back into the real living room.

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I don't know if this is considered an unpopular opinion, but I liked the character of Kathy Bowman. Yes, that lady was a snob, but I felt like she was a good foil for Roseanne. Someone who didn't give into being Roseanne's friend, and simply didn't care to even be neighborly to her. Even though her husband and son had friendships with Dan and D.J. 

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I liked Kathy Bowman too! I wish she had been on longer. Imagine if over time they had somehow become friends (or friendlier). Imagine if the two of them ended up at the Lobo and made peace. Would have made for an interesting storyline. I'd trade Nancy for Kathy in a heart beat. 

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I wonder why the Bowman's were written off. I felt they were an interesting contrast to the Connor's, but perhaps the writers felt they'd served their purpose and it was time to move on. Regardless, I did enjoy Kathy. 

I'd trade Nancy for Kathy in a heart beat.

 

I never really warmed up to Nancy. She didn't really bring anything to the table. 

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I think the bowmans were written off because of the darlene/david storyline.  Since the Bowmans only had a young son that was DJ's friend, the family didn't really contribute to the story.  Although they could have written some GREAT storylines between Kathy and Roseanne, but didn't.  But David came along, and they needed an attractive girl to be Darlene's "rival" and all that.

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But then they should have brought back Molly and Charlotte. I liked them too. Imagine if Mark would have been attracted to Molly the way he was to the bus girl at the Lunchbox (can't remember her name, she was played by the ex porn girl). Darlene was a bitch but imagine a girl fight with Becky and Molly. 

They could have had Kathy's son and DJ get into a lot of trouble. They wrote DJ originally as a pretty normal kid but after a while he ended up being such a weirdo (on purpose). 

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imagine a girl fight with Becky and Molly.

I now need this to happen.  Those two Heathers going after each other would be epic!

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(can't remember her name, she was played by the ex porn girl).

Traci Lords. what ever happened to her?

I am chiming in the the Bowman love. Their Halloween episode is the best.  I posted a video of the opening prank last Halloween and  and grossed out all my friends

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 Traci Lords. what ever happened to her?

 

I know she (weirdly) popped up randomly on an episode of Gilmore Girls in the late 90s, but I haven't spotted her since. Not that I've been looking.

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My UO is that I absolutely *hated* it when Sandra Bernhardt was added to the cast as a regular.  For some stupid reason, TIIC decided to get rid of Crystal as one of Roseanne's and Jackie's BFFs and replace her with Nancy.  Big mistake.  

Even though Nancy was supposed to be self-absorbed and obnoxious, the way SB played the character wasn't remotely funny or entertaining, and IMO she dragged down every scene she was in.

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My UO is that I absolutely *hated* it when Sandra Bernhardt was added to the cast as a regular. For some stupid reason, TIIC decided to get rid of Crystal as one of Roseanne's and Jackie's BFFs and replace her with Nancy. Big mistake.

Even though Nancy was supposed to be self-absorbed and obnoxious, the way SB played the character wasn't remotely funny or entertaining, and IMO she dragged down every scene she was in.

What is TIIC?

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I actually kind of found Tom Arnold funny as Arnie. I love the episode where he tries to host Bingo Night.

 

Season 8 is the latter-year season I hate the least (in fact, it may not be right to even say I hate it), if only because Lecy came back as Becky. And December Bride is one of my favorite episodes of the series.

 

BTW, I'm UseYourIllusion from TWOP, I just go by the initials now :) .

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Season one is not my favorite -- I think the show at that stage was a very funny, somewhat unique twist on a generic family sitcom, but hadn't yet become something truly special -- but I do love it, a lot more than many fans I know, so I can largely relate to that one.

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Thought David should have dumped Darlene.  She was so mean to him & it was not fun to watch.  Darlene was my favorite when she was a child and became my least favorite character.

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I feel like the show jumped the shark way before the Conners won the lottery. I feel like it jumped around the time Darlene went off to college. There may be a few good episodes here or there but I thought it was mostly crap.

 

Aside from the episodes that set up Roseanne and partners being restaurant owners, I didn't like the lunchbox. 

 

I always wanted to bitch slap Crystal when she got to complaining on what an absentee husband and father Ed was. Um, everyone, especially, Dan told your ass this before you got married. So shut it!

 

I loved Beverly. 

 

Hated Jackie's baby daddy.

 

Sarah Gilbert's acting got really bad the last couple of seasons. That deadpan delivery worked as a child but as an adult? Not so much. Especially when she supposedly softened up a bit and embraced love, marriage and parenthood. 

 

Dan was a total cuties!

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Thought David should have dumped Darlene.  She was so mean to him & it was not fun to watch.  Darlene was my favorite when she was a child and became my least favorite character.

 

I agree. Darlene was a bully. David was a wimp. Oh, how I wanted him to break up with Darlene when she made him choose between his dream of going to Paris or her.

 

I think Roseanne should've worked at the factory a bit longer. 

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As good an actress as Sara Gilbert was as a teen, Lecy Goranson was just as good, at times maybe even better. Lord knows I bought her in Becky's brattier moments completely. 

 

 

My UO is that I absolutely *hated* it when Sandra Bernhardt was added to the cast as a regular. For some stupid reason, TIIC decided to get rid of Crystal as one of Roseanne's and Jackie's BFFs and replace her with Nancy. Big mistake. Even though Nancy was supposed to be self-absorbed and obnoxious, the way SB played the character wasn't remotely funny or entertaining, and IMO she dragged down every scene she was in.

 

DEAR GOD YES. I tolerated her enough when she and Arnie were together, but as time went on there was no one on the show more annoying than her. And given the OTT nature of almost every character near the end of the series, that is saying a LOT. 

Edited by UYI
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I feel like the show jumped the shark way before the Conners won the lottery. I feel like it jumped around the time Darlene went off to college. There may be a few good episodes here or there but I thought it was mostly crap.

 

Aside from the episodes that set up Roseanne and partners being restaurant owners, I didn't like the lunchbox. 

 

I always wanted to bitch slap Crystal when she got to complaining on what an absentee husband and father Ed was. Um, everyone, especially, Dan told your ass this before you got married. So shut it!

 

I loved Beverly. 

 

Hated Jackie's baby daddy.

 

Sarah Gilbert's acting got really bad the last couple of seasons. That deadpan delivery worked as a child but as an adult? Not so much. Especially when she supposedly softened up a bit and embraced love, marriage and parenthood. 

 

Dan was a total cuties!

 

Totally agree on Crystal.  She married him knowing that, so she has no one to blame but herself.  Plus she was really mean to Dan when she was pregnant.  Since Ed wasn't around for her to yell at, she got on Dan's case. 

 

Roseanne and Jackie's grandma was a hoot.

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Roseanne and Jackie's grandma was a hoot.

 

 

Word!  I'd watch an entire spin-off series of Nana Mary doing her passive-agressive schtick on the phone with Bev.  Heh. RIP Shelley Winters.

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Loved Arnie with a passion. I might be the only one, but I really liked Nancy. She and Arnie were a hoot as a couple. I really loved Bonnie and Crystal. The Bingo episode is priceless! I wanted to have Crystal, Bonnie and Nancy together, not have anyone gone from the cast.

 

Kathy Bowman - terrific casting choice and one of the best neighbors in television sitcom history.

 

I am not sure if the Fred character is the reason for the downfall of Jackie's character, but I just didn't want to see Jackie with any guy that would cause her character to change so much.  I liked Gary, and it's probably because he meshed well with the Jackie character without the writers trying to make his character obvious. I know that doesn't make sense, but I having a hard time to describe it here. His character came off very real. He was not over-bearing. I sure didn't like him giving Jackie an ultimatum about her job, but I could understand his fear.  Fred's character seems like he was brought and his lines were written for him to deliver his lines much like the Darlene character. Not a lot of depth to his character, very one-sided. He seemed just like what he was from the beginning - the guy who laid Jackie on the first night.

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I kind of go back and forth on how mean spirited the characters got towards each other from about the time the lunchbox opened until the end. I watched them when they aired and sometimes in reruns but those are the ones I tend to skip. 

I think that's probably why I prefer season 1, which I know isn't considered a critically important season. There was a sweetness there, and for a few seasons after that eventually ran out.

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I'd have to say the Becky casting change is my jump-the-shark moment. Sarah Chalke wasn't bad but I felt Lecy Goranson had completely defined the role. I've always liked the earlier episodes better than the later ones. Roseanne's character became more serious and the show as a whole became more politically correct with all the gay themes so there was a playfulness of the earlier episodes that was lost. I agree with many people that the last season was bizarre but while their over-the top-moment was the terrorist attack mine was Ruta Lee as Beverly's gay lover. Still, there were good individual episodes throughout the show and some of the best sitcom dialogue ever! And it's fun to see actors in episodes before they were stars such as George Clooney as Roseanne's boss at the factory and Bill Maher as the boudoir photographer. Did you know Leonardo DiCaprio was in the episode where Roseanne visits Darlene's school class? He played one of the other students and didn't have any lines!

Edited by Sojourner
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I'm curious as to who of us "suffers the most" when we compare our own top 10 to the top 10 in the game.

 

Yes, he was a friend of Sara Gilbert's.

 

Discussion upthread reminded me of another UO: Crystal got on my last nerve quickly and often, so I could only take her in small doses, and I did not miss her when she inexplicably disappeared. 

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And it's fun to see actors in episodes before they were stars such as George Clooney as Roseanne's boss at the factory and Bill Maher as the boudoir photographer. Did you know Leonardo DiCaprio was in the episode where Roseanne visits Darlene's school class? He played one of the other students and didn't have any lines!

Don't forget Joseph Gordon-Levitt as "George", DJ's friend (with the Wrestlemania tickets.

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Not sure if this is a UO, but:

 

As insane as it was that the husbands were switched in the final episode, I can actually kind of see how David and Becky MIGHT have wound up married. Mark and Darlene, OTOH? Had it not been for Becky, Darlene wouldn't have given him the time of day (and she probably didn't even with Becky around). 

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I liked Nancy. To me, she was interesting and never dull. I liked how she aggravated Dan to no end but since Roseanne liked her, he tried to tolerate her. OTT and full of WTFuckery but kind hearted and harmless. Like the time when Roseanne and Jackie were being really crappy to Bev and Nancy encouraged Bev to fight back and stand up for herself. "Way to go, Bev!"

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In many ways, I would argue--whether by default (due to them being ignored so often) or by design--that by the end of the series, Mark & Becky way very well have been the best couple on the show (and this goes for whether it was Lecy or Sarah in the role of Becky).

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Not sure if this is a UO, but:

 

As insane as it was that the husbands were switched in the final episode, I can actually kind of see how David and Becky MIGHT have wound up married. Mark and Darlene, OTOH? Had it not been for Becky, Darlene wouldn't have given him the time of day (and she probably didn't even with Becky around). 

 

I'm halfway through Season Seven, and there's a weird plot where Becky and David go out for coffee all the time because her marriage with Mark is failing and David is still sad about Darlene (and is kind of doing it to get back at her). I can *totally* get David and Becky, but I don't see Mark going for an "alternative"-looking gal like Darlene. (That's not a knock on Sara Gilbert or Darlene)

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I like the husband switch. I can see Darlene and Mark meeting in detention and falling in love over torturing some teacher or whatever. I also see David and Becky bonding over poetry. Since the show was all a book Roseanne wrote, I always assumed that at times she did what most parents did and saw her daughters younger than what they were actually and their boyfriends older, so age difference wouldn't be a problem.

I also don't think there's any other man for Jackie other than Booker.

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Darlene doesn't have a high tolerance for stupid people, that's why I could never see her and Mark being married.

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The husband switch never made sense to me because it involved ret-conning so many different storylines. Does the switch mean that it was really Becky and David who created the comic book while Darlene eloped with Mark after he was fired from the bike shop? Which one of them went to college in Chicago? Which one got pregnant at 19? There's just too much of a butterfly effect for me to take the switch seriously, even though I did like the basic concept of the "this is all a book" final monologue.

ETA: I think it would've fit the spirit of the scene but still be believable if there had been less drastic changes to the girls' storylines we had come to know. For instance, maybe Mark and Becky did elope, but were miserable and got divorced, forcing Becky to find a new direction for her life. Or maybe Darlene's college experience led her to bigger and better things away from Lanford, causing a permanent break-up with David and eventually estrangement from her family. I don't know, just some thoughts.

 

Having said that, my UO is that I never bought Becky and Mark as a legit couple. Not only do they seem mismatched as people, but they weren't as fleshed out as many of the other couples to show me that they really loved each other or even got along. Their early storylines were mainly about Becky pushing boundaries with her parents, and when they moved back to Lanford Mark had become a total buffoon primarily for comic effect. Unlike other couples, there are very few scenes of just the two of them doing normal couple things like joking around or being affectionate; instead we only saw them fighting or talking to other characters about their relationship. Because of this, they just never worked for me.

Edited by Cherpumple
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Having said that, my UO is that I never bought Becky and Mark as a legit couple. Not only do they seem mismatched as people, but they weren't as fleshed out as many of the other couples to show me that they really loved each other or even got along. Their early storylines were mainly about Becky pushing boundaries with her parents, and when they moved back to Lanford Mark had become a total buffoon primarily for comic effect. Unlike other couples, there are very few scenes of just the two of them doing normal couple things like joking around or being affectionate; instead we only saw them fighting or talking to other characters about their relationship. Because of this, they just never worked for me.

I agree.  I mean Becky wouldn't be the first girl to throw her life away for a guy, but it was hard to comprehend.  She was a straight A student and I remember her being pissed at her parents for not having any money for her to go to college.  Like that was it and she just kinda gave up.

 

I grew up poor and my mom didn't have any money for me to go to college, but I got scholarships and took out loans and still went.

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The Becky college thing always bothered me, too. She left for Minneapolis with the promise that she was headed for community college, which should have been affordable enough for teenage newlyweds, though she also could have gone to a university with scholarships and loans. (The problem is, she didn't know to try for loans or grants or scholarships or have anybody who could advise her on such, which is a classic problem for first-generation college students.)

 

The real problem came about when they brought Becky back as Sarah Chalke. Suddenly the job Mark had wasn't good, and she had dropped out of school to chip in financially (which doesn't seem necessary--surely she could have kept going with 3 or 6 credits while also putting in good hours as a waitress or whatever she was doing). The whole thing was just a reconfiguring meant to bring Becky and Mark back to living with the Conners. Which made for some good episodes, Chalke's limitations in that character notwithstanding, but also meant basically dragging Becky's life into the toilet.

 

I always really liked that late-series episode "Becky Howser M.D." where she starts talking about going back to college to become a doctor and maybe ditching Mark in the process. They're a few years into their marriage, the bloom is off the rose, plus Darlene is thriving with her education and Becky has started to think about the road less taken. Also, it was during Lecy Goranson's return, and she just always had a better handle on Becky.

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I love that Roseanne actually sticks up for Mark in that episode. It's sort of heartbreaking when Mark says, "How many doctors do you know that are married to auto mechanics?"

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Having said that, my UO is that I never bought Becky and Mark as a legit couple. Not only do they seem mismatched as people, but they weren't as fleshed out as many of the other couples to show me that they really loved each other or even got along. Their early storylines were mainly about Becky pushing boundaries with her parents, and when they moved back to Lanford Mark had become a total buffoon primarily for comic effect. Unlike other couples, there are very few scenes of just the two of them doing normal couple things like joking around or being affectionate; instead we only saw them fighting or talking to other characters about their relationship. Because of this, they just never worked for me.

 

I think this is a big reason why I had a hard time even liking Mark as a character....they didn't flesh him out enough. Like you said, he and Becky didn't ever just to get to be a regular couple and hang out like everyone else did. When he first came on the show he was rude and dismissive toward Roseanne and Dan, then they eloped and ran off. When they came back he was written as a complete moron, and when he wasn't being a complete moron, he was being a gigantic jerk to David (who coincidentally, it took me all of three seconds to fall for). I could never figure out why anyone in the Conner household would ever want him around, and was totally lost as to what Becky even saw in him, other than a motorcycle and danger and freedom.

 

 

I love that Roseanne actually sticks up for Mark in that episode. It's sort of heartbreaking when Mark says, "How many doctors do you know that are married to auto mechanics?"

 

Agreed. That was the only time I ever felt anything for Mark during the whole series, simply because of the very real sadness in his voice. It was the only time I ever believed he might actually love Becky.

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