S04.E06: The Pivot

[STOPSHOUTING]

We watched this ep last night and I pretty much agree 100% with everything Sarah wrote in the recap. I thought, RE: the stunt convo ... Based solely on what we saw, she was WAAY too vague about what could/could not happen with the car crash. You want credit? Tell him the truth, flat out: HBO wants to cut it completely and you're trying to save PART of it. Sure, he's a pissy, entitled little ingrate, BUT YOU KNEW THAT ALREADY. Effie is often -- again, based solely on what we see -- unclear and she and Mann are both so wildly passive aggressive, even by Hollywood terms, that working on this movie probably sent the majority of the cast and crew into therapy afterwards.

I also agree that I feel her on the casting issue but, c'mon. She has stated, clearly, unequivocally and often, what her agenda in coming on board this project was: diversity, in cast and crew. Super admirable goal, made extra challenging by, literally, choosing the whitest director in America, combined with his so-white-it-can't-be-shot-after-Labor-Day script. So, yeah, uphill battle, both ways, fighting the good fight, etc.

This was Effie's clear mandate from minute one, and to see it flouted is annoying and I really get her whole: "it's the principle of the thing" ... BUT, Joubert isn't wrong either. The days are FLYING by, and a 4 second extra appearance is probably not a thing to be wasting precious shooting time on. Effie should be livid with casting that ever let that happen in the first place. Rookie mistake and indicative of crew issues downstream for sure.

Lastly, Bruce Davison was nominated for a goddamned Oscar, you Jack Skellington-look alike. Oh and, newsflash, he's wearing a mic, not auditioning for theater in the round. If you want him to be happier, sadder or more sarcastic, those are genuine directorial choices ... To "project to the back of the room" is what a third-grade class play "adviser" instructs. He's wearing a freaking mic, genius (or will later loop his lines); you can make it sound like they can hear him in Cleveland. It's a movie. So, shut the F up, you entitled artiste imbecile!

Lastly, the more we see of this film the more terrible it looks. Ugh. My new theory is not only are they just trying to make a typical, conflict-driven reality show by choosing such assholes, but Matt and Ben are working overtime to remind everyone that no one is talented as they are. "We gave them every opportunity and their first movies all sucked. Remember our first movie? What did it win again? Oh yeah, AN OSCAR."

[Julia]

I'm starting to genuinely wonder how much Matt and Ben are directly involved in this. There are some choices of what material to include and what information to pass along showing on the screen that would make a lot more sense if they were hired to be faces with minimal involvement and Joubert was playing them. After all, they're telling us just this week that the title mess came about because they cut things out of episodes until the last minute.

After all, they look pretty freaking terrible here, but we have to assume that they're responding to what we're seeing and not what they've been told. I don't know if we can do that. In the one instance where we know they were given accurate, timely information (after Farrelly bailed), Ben was very careful to be supportive and respectful about Effie when talking to Jason.

This week's Matt talking head, OTOH, was a broad general statement about artistic prerogatives which could just as easily have been filmed before the show started and plopped in here because the show about the movie wanted someone who is not Jason or Joubert to sound as though they weren't happy with the job Effie was doing.

I kind of doubt, given the schedules they have, that those two are hands on here, but since they've allowed themselves to be portrayed that way, they more or less have to endorse what went onscreen, since surely they knew about it ahead of time. Which is not the impression I got from Damon's reaction to week 1...

[STOPSHOUTING]

RE: Matt and Ben's involvement ... I'm gonna go with figurehead. 

 

You can see from at least Affleck's talking head, which is done when he looks significantly different (hair color, weight), that it might have all be done at one time. Like, they had a single interview window with the big, busy A-listers. I noticed at one point, a few eps back, that Affleck had a sweater on over a white T, and then later that he was clearly in the same room, but a different chair/angle and was just in a white T. But the hair -- fully dyed, no gray and face shape -- was the same, vs. gray in his hair during the actual interactions. 

 

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised (in fact, I'd be shocked for the opposite) if the access to Matt and Ben wasn't very, very limited. Their names are there to get it done. They appear in person at the beginning, and the end, and help promote the whole thing. Day to day; my guess is they're almost, if not completely, nonexistent. (Maybe one meeting/appearance each.)

 

They're actually even bigger now than they were with earlier Greenlight runs, where they did seem to be on set, at least sometimes. Or it could have just fallen during a time when both were rarely available in L.A.

[Ted]

Effie has done what I thought was impossible -- she is making Jason look sympathetic. He didn't pick her or any of the crew. That's pretty unusual for the director to be working with total strangers. He is an awful person but he's also been put in the uncomfortable for anybody position that he's going to be totally responsible for whether the movie stinks and the only tool he has to get what he thinks he needs to protect the movie is well, to be a tool.

[radishcake]

Effie has done what I thought was impossible -- she is making Jason look sympathetic. He didn't pick her or any of the crew. That's pretty unusual for the director to be working with total strangers. He is an awful person but he's also been put in the uncomfortable for anybody position that he's going to be totally responsible for whether the movie stinks and the only tool he has to get what he thinks he needs to protect the movie is well, to be a tool.

To be fair how would he have had time to pick any of the crew? They had a super tight timeline for the HBO show and I would be AMAZED if they didn't already have the entire crew hired and ready to go with the exception of the film crew which would have been added when they decided to shoot on film (or maybe they got a DP who knew film & digital). 

[RemoteControlFreak]

 

Why do they think this story is fresh or interesting?  OMG, it's been done and redone many times.  Why do they think those jokes are funny?   Are these guys emotionally stuck in junior high?    Ok, Jason is a narcissist.  Of course he believes he wrote something amazing.  But Pete?  Shouldn't he know better?

Because films with stories like this can make money in Hollywood.  There seems to be no limit on the American audience for low brow, unoriginal comedy.  And the people who make movies mistake making money with making quality. Or they don't care.

Edited October 20, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[MerryMary]

This show isn't that interesting.  Every week is Effie vs. Jason.  I remember there being an assortment of interesting characters in past seasons, especially the contestants.

 

Furthermore, if Effie doesn't have any respect for Jason (he's a guy who's never had a job and won a contest) why does she need a pat on the back from him for doing a good job?  Quit whining.  It is what it is.  I don't like either one of these people.

[RemoteControlFreak]

With regard to the Ep. title, Effie re-tweeted this:

 

 

I'm not endorsing HBO's choice of the title, but why didn't she explain that those words actually came out of her mouth and were left on the cutting room floor? She could have then stated why she said it, what she meant, and why it's still a bad choice for a title.

 

As it is, she's just stirring shit just for the sake of stirring shit.  She apparently can't help herself.

Edited October 20, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[WentMissing]

I posted an interview with Effie in the media thread where she says she watched the epi and didn't know where the line came from. She thinks she could have said it but doesn't remember and at that time she obviously didn't know about the deleted scene where she says the line.  She does chalk the title up to a mistake though.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I posted an interview with Effie in the media thread where she says she watched the epi and didn't know where the line came from. She thinks she could have said it but doesn't remember and at that time she obviously didn't know about the deleted scene where she says the line.  She does chalk the title up to a mistake though.

Too bad she didn't say on her Twitter what she said in the interview.  

[STOPSHOUTING]

I just listened to the latest EHG where they talk about this ep and I think the gang nailed it when they said that Jason's job as the director is to sell the producer (Effie) on what he needs, so that she can work to get it for him, which never seems to have happened here. But I will add, I think that's where everyone saying Jason's a "great director" really misses the mark, because he thought he "needed" everything. There was no salesmanship it was just stomp my feet and pout and hold my breath till I get it. Which, basically, is useless and impossible in a three year old and ah-hell-no in a grown man. He never "sold" Effie on anything, so he's right, she wasn't really in his corner. He refused to make ANY concessions or compromises; which makes him a shitty director, vision or no. The money is the money, and you're never gonna have enough. Hell, they make compromises on The Avengers which has a gazillion dollar budget. There is NEVER enough time, money or magic to do everything you'd want to.

 

Dig your heels in for the big stuff and you look like a visionary, dig your heels in for EVERYTHING, and you just look like (and likely are) a douchebag.

 

But, in Mann's slight defense (and I gag even typing that phrase), this was supposed to be a mentoring situation all around. Effie is the professional. She's the one who knows the score. This wasn't a "normal" producing job and I find it impossible to believe she was naive enough to ever believe it would be. She was supposed to be guiding this director far more than she probably ever has had to do, so some of the this-is-the-reality straight talk should have come from her. If she ever did that, we never saw it. It was a lot of pussyfooting around and then bitching behind his back, as far as we saw. Which is ... unhelpful. To say the least. I mean, I get her feelings, 100 percent, but that was the job.

Edited October 20, 2015 by STOPSHOUTING

[radishcake]

I posted an interview with Effie in the media thread where she says she watched the epi and didn't know where the line came from. She thinks she could have said it but doesn't remember and at that time she obviously didn't know about the deleted scene where she says the line.  She does chalk the title up to a mistake though.

Yep, and if you read her twitter feed you can see where she says "all I have are the episode numbers". So she tweeted what she knew then and then gave an interview. Plus the quote is from a deleted clip of how many hours of footage? God knows what the hell I say in a day that I don't remember.

[Quilt Fairy]

But, in Mann's slight defense (and I gag even typing that phrase), this was supposed to be a mentoring situation all around. Effie is the professional. She's the one who knows the score. This wasn't a "normal" producing job and I find it impossible to believe she was naive enough to ever believe it would be. She was supposed to be guiding this director far more than she probably ever has had to do, so some of the this-is-the-reality straight talk should have come from her. If she ever did that, we never saw it. It was a lot of pussyfooting around and then bitching behind his back, as far as we saw. Which is ... unhelpful. To say the least. I mean, I get her feelings, 100 percent, but that was the job

I think we saw nothing but this-is-the-reality straight talk from Effie. For the first 3 episodes. It didn't work because there was always someone undermining her authority. I don't like the go-along-to-get-along approach she's (mostly) taking now, but I understand it.

[STOPSHOUTING]

I think we saw nothing but this-is-the-reality straight talk from Effie. For the first 3 episodes. It didn't work because there was always someone undermining her authority. I don't like the go-along-to-get-along approach she's (mostly) taking now, but I understand it.

 

 

I feel like everything she ever said (again, with the huge "that we saw" caveat) was hedged. It was "maybe we can't do film" again and again and, in the end, he got film, so hedging means yes to Jason Mann. I just never felt she took a hard line, like: pick a location from these, or we shoot on a soundstage, or whatever the lesser option was. Educate him why it's essential he not hold out or push this choice. You MUST pick a location now because if you don't, you won't get night shoots, we won't be able to clear the property for stunts, etc. ... We know that didn't happen because, well, we saw the outcomes. As for film, why didn't she never say, if that's the hill you want to die on, I'll go to bat for you, but you're going to have to be prepared to give up A-B-C to find those funds? That's what could have made them a team. Instead, he is going over mommy's head to ask daddy, and Effie seems to have (though I'm not faulting her for this dysfunctional structure in the least) no clue what he really can and can't have so she's thrown up her hands. It's not terribly unusual for various producers -- and there is almost never only one -- to have different perspectives on what is and is not important, and for all of those to be in conflict with the director's vision to some extent. Navigating this has got to be something she has experience in, though granted she might usually be on one clear team or another, of her own choosing, rather than just a hired hand on a project she doesn't have any personal affinity for, making her stake much lower. But that whole, "I don't give an F" is really showing. And I don't think it reflects well on her professional rep. But, hey, she's getting a ton of play, so what do I know?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Passive-Aggression's Touching My Soul
They know what they want, but they just don't know / how to go about gettin' it.

[tvsoothesthespirit]

I think it's possible that the chauffeur scene might have happened prior to the rehearsal dinner or whatever that was. While I was watching I also questioned whether the actor originally playing the chauffeur would be recast or if he just lost out on the opportunity but now it seems he was recast.

 

Effie and Jason's conversation about the car crash scene was really confusing. It didn't seem like Effie got to say half of what she needed to say before she got mad/frustrated and gave up.  Jason just really wanted to hear only what he wanted to hear and ended up derailing the conversation so he didn't get the information he needed.  The were both disingenuous at that production meeting. Jason was on the phone with Len (the HBO guy) right? Len said the stunt needed to be seriously reworked.

 

I kind of laughed about Jason's saying these decisions were ginned up by the production company. You mean decisions like staying on budget or maybe choosing film over three extra days to shoot the movie (maybe enough time to get the stunt done safely?) or put off picking a location because you think you can get the shooting moved to the east coast? You mean those "ginned up" limitations?  The deal is, you get money to make a movie and it's shown on HBO.  In return, your process is shown in a reality series.  Within that, there are real, every day elements of actual movie- making that need to be dealt with.

[asha]

Too bad she didn't say on her Twitter what she said in the interview.  

The thing is, it doesn't matter if the words actually came out of her mouth. It is still a tone-deaf title for that episode. I think Kamau-Bell's tweet still stands even if the words came out of Effie's mouth. I know you mentioned that in your earlier post, but I don't know that she needed to clarify that in 140 characters.

Edited October 20, 2015 by asha

[Maximona]

Effie FINALLY realizes that the operative adjective for Jason is "entitled!"

 

 

Not that I'm particularly a fan of Effie's increasingly annoying passive aggressive smirk.  And she definitely did NOT tell him that
the car flip was off the table. 

 

But Jason! Jesus.  He's a veritable Uriah Heap.  He writhes!  He wrings!  He hugs!

 

Even with my limited Final Cut Pro abilities, I could transition those dusk shots into a gradual diminution of light, so why the hell
all the drama there?

Edited October 20, 2015 by Maximona

[Julia]

But Jason! Jesus.  He's a veritable Uriah Heap.  He writhes!  He wrings!  He hugs!

 

That's perfect.

[pbutler111]

What happens to the black actor who was set to play the limo driver and was replaced with a white guy? Does he get another walk-on part or does he get sent home without getting paid? If it's the latter, and I were that actor, I would be angry with Effie for taking food off my table.

I was wondering about this, too. I remember reading about Hattie McDaniel once being asked if she found it demeaning to always be cast as a servant, and she said, "I'd rather play one than be one." I have a feeling that the erstwhile chauffeur, had Effie bothered to consult him, might have very well felt the same way.

[Julia]

Well,  since Jason is obsessed with verisimilitude, the chauffeur wouldn't have been there anyway. New England WASPs back in the day were more likely to have invited token guests of color to a rehearsal dinner than they were to have servants of color living in, which is to say not at all.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Julia

[diggle]

He remains a jerk.

She remains somebody who recognizes all the insidious forms of systemic racism and sexism.

I am glad she is there and pointing it out - if we all sit back and let it happen without comment, it will never change.

[biakbiak]

Well, since Jason is obsessed with verisimilitude, the chauffeur wouldn't have been there anyway. New England WASPs back in the day were more likely to have invited token guests of color to a rehearsal dinner than they were to have servants of color living in, which is to say not at all.

The movie isn't a period piece. It's also mentioned that the chauffeur was just who drove the sister in from NYC.

Edited October 21, 2015 by biakbiak

[Irlandesa]

And she definitely did NOT tell him that the car flip was off the table. 

No she did not. However, I have to put some of that on Jason.  He was in the production meeting when Len told them that the budget for the crash was approximately 33% of the original budget or what they needed.  (Am I not remembering that right?)  Now, I'm not in the movies. I don't have a movie mentor.  But whenever I hear that I only get 33% of what I'm asking for, I make sure I find out what I can get with that.

 

From what I can tell, Jason didn't do that.  He didn't think about what he'd have to change or let go.  So when Effie came to him, she approached it as being able to offer him something.  She'd saved money they were going to be able to use to make the stunt better--yay!  Instead, he heard her as taking something from her which is not a reaction she expected.

Yeah, Jason is bullheaded but I probably would have reacted the same as Effie.  How could he not realize he'd have to sacrifice?  There's obtuse and then there's idiotic.

 

 I have a feeling that the erstwhile chauffeur, had Effie bothered to consult him, might have very well felt the same way.

I don't mind if Effie wants to take things further for actors of color than they were when Hattie McDaniel was out there fighting for work. It's obvious Effie considers it a larger issue than the actor's choice.  If he was there, I would think/hope he got paid. 

 

I think that's why I find I'm more sympathetic to Effie.  She makes mistakes but overall I think what she's fighting for is more important than what Jason's fighting for.  Not being able to flip a car does not ruin a story.  The scariest thing about Jaws wasn't the fangs but the music.  You can achieve suspense without rolling a car.  Every artistic thing he tried to defend just sounds like he's trying to shit with Febreeze.  Does. not. work.

[Clanstarling]

Two small points. After the phone conversation about the car scene, Jason said he'd talk to the stunt coordinator. At the final table, he acted baffled when the stunt coordinator said that the deadline for the rollbars and come and gone, and that he'd told "someone" over and over again. Given Jason's deafness in general, I'm betting the stunt coordinator gave him those details and Jason ignored them.

 

Also, maybe it's just me, but I thought Bruce Davidson's talking head about Jason's directorial style was a brilliantly disguised dig. There just seemed to be a twinkle in his eye and an emphasis here and there that indicated the opposite of what he was saying. Did anyone else think so?

[lidarose9]

No she did not. However, I have to put some of that on Jason.  He was in the production meeting when Len told them that the budget for the crash was approximately 33% of the original budget or what they needed.  (Am I not remembering that right?)  Now, I'm not in the movies. I don't have a movie mentor.  But whenever I hear that I only get 33% of what I'm asking for, I make sure I find out what I can get with that.

 

From what I can tell, Jason didn't do that.  He didn't think about what he'd have to change or let go.  So when Effie came to him, she approached it as being able to offer him something.  She'd saved money they were going to be able to use to make the stunt better--yay!  Instead, he heard her as taking something from her which is not a reaction she expected.

 

Yeah, Jason is bullheaded but I probably would have reacted the same as Effie.  How could he not realize he'd have to sacrifice?  There's obtuse and then there's idiotic.

 

 

THIS. All along, it seems as if nobody ever told Jason he wasn't going to be able to create that vision he had in his head. So every time someone says no, he acts injured and outraged, like it's a conspiracy against him. It's as if he has no clue he'd have to scale things back. 

 

And I find him INFINITELY inadequate in EVER trying to justify any of his endless unrealistic desires. He just makes that pained face and does that thing with his hands and blathers crap about whatever. It's not as if there are any actual REASONS. He acts like he's making War & Peace. 

 

I am pretty sure this is no longer a show about making a movie. It's a show about people making a show about making a movie. 

 

I feel for Effie cuz I've been in her shoes. Once in a while, I had to work with someone I just did not gel with, and it seemed the more I tried, the worse it got. Some people are just oil and water. Neither of them are doing a good job of communicating. At least Effie tries. She keeps trying to take the high road and I give her props for that. Unlike Jason, she's still gotta work in that industry when the show's over. Jason can go back to making vanity projects with his parents' money. 

[Broken Ox]

Not being able to flip a car does not ruin a story.

 

Clearly you just don't understand, because that car flip is critical to moving the story along. Jason said so himself.

 

 

Also, maybe it's just me, but I thought Bruce Davidson's talking head about Jason's directorial style was a brilliantly disguised dig. There just seemed to be a twinkle in his eye and an emphasis here and there that indicated the opposite of what he was saying. Did anyone else think so?

 

Not just you. Despite the words, I did not feel that it was actually complimentary.

[Jesse]

I think was Jason really needed was a "how to make a movie" class, where someone who knows things (ie, Effie) sat down with him for a week, and said, "OK, what's your vision? Here's how much that would cost. Here's how much money we have. Here are some options of places to cut. If you want film, we can't have stunts. If we have stunts, they are at this level. These are the time constraints, and the factors that come in." Etc.  Rather than just starting to work with him as if he's a professional. Because he clearly is not. 

 

 

Also, maybe it's just me, but I thought Bruce Davidson's talking head about Jason's directorial style was a brilliantly disguised dig. There just seemed to be a twinkle in his eye and an emphasis here and there that indicated the opposite of what he was saying. Did anyone else think so?

 

Totes.

[blixie]

I think my favorite assy statement from Jason, was that making a short is pretty much the same as making a FEATURE. Sure it is dude. Mmkay.

[Quilt Fairy]

I thought he said making a feature was different from making a short, as if the lightbulb was slowly being turned on.

[Julia]

I thought he said making a feature was different from making a short, as if the lightbulb was slowly being turned on.

 

No, he thought they were pretty much the same, since obviously if it weren't for Effie he wouldn't have union rules and he would be able to endanger the lives of his stunt drivers with impunity, like he did in all his short films.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Julia

[radishcake]

I was wondering about this, too. I remember reading about Hattie McDaniel once being asked if she found it demeaning to always be cast as a servant, and she said, "I'd rather play one than be one." I have a feeling that the erstwhile chauffeur, had Effie bothered to consult him, might have very well felt the same way.

I can't remember if I saw this on her twitter or in an interview but she did say that the actor got paid even though he didn't play the chauffeur.

ETA: Found it

[Milburn Stone]

What happens to the black actor who was set to play the limo driver and was replaced with a white guy? Does he get another walk-on part or does he get sent home without getting paid? If it's the latter, and I were that actor, I would be angry with Effie for taking food off my table.

 

In that situation, the black actor gets paid the same day rate he would have been paid if he'd been on camera. It's not a ton of money, so it's a fairly easy decision for the decision-makers to make, if it matters to them enough.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[MasalaCurry]

This show was interesting, not anymore. I really liked watching seasons 1 and 2. Season 2 directors were awful but the season itself was interesting to see how a movie is made. Now that reality TV is the thing, it seems like HBO brought in reality show people to direct/edit this show, hence all the unnecessary drama. I am sick and tired of tuning into the Jason vs. Effie show. Jason is annoying and has no idea how to direct. Effie's personality grates. Effie does seem to be fighting the good fight, but she is fighting ALL THE TIME! I have worked with people like that, and after a point, it gets tiring and becomes hard to work with someone who always rolls their eyes and laughs tauntingly when they don't get their way, and who is always on the defensive. Effie is always fighting, so it is very annoying to see her on my screen. She should have sat Jason down and shared with him what can and cannot be done in the budget. Understandably it doesn't seem like they have the time to do that, it seems like due to budgetary and timing constraints she is finding out day by day what can and cannot be done, and she can't run to him to tell him everything. They should have worked out priorities though - what are the most important scenes to him, and Effie can procure them. I haven't seen Effie really partner with him. From day one it has been a stern "No" in a school teacher stance, and then feeling offended when he hasn't agreed. In the past we have seen that they are able to go up for a bigger budget and negotiate, Effie makes it seem like they can't. Jason is no cakewalk, I am not even looking forward to the movie because it looks and sounds awful, and the movie is not right for Effie. She would do much better in a situation where there is more diversity, and the budget is kind of set. Here her authority is questioned all the time, she is not able to partner with Jason and realize that certain things can be negotiated, and the story itself is too white for her. It just is not a good fit. I think a white male Producer would have been a better fit because Effie has certain principles that she wants to ensure the movie meets, and a story and Director like this just won't be able to meet them. Clearly HBO thinks the drama will make people tune into the movie. I do hope this doesn't affect Effie's chances in Hollywood. She has burned a couple of big bridges. And I still don't get why they chose Jason when he clearly didn't want to do this.

[Milburn Stone]

This show is getting super annoying. I started watching because I thought it would show me what goes into making a movie. It has become all about personal drama and incredibly unlikable people.

 

That is what goes into making a movie. Too often, anyway. As the words of some posters here (like JyDanzig, among others) will attest.

 

The fact that I recognize so much of this show is what makes me addicted to it.

[Julia]

I think a white male Producer would have been a better fit 

 

Yeah, I pretty much sensed that.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Julia

[calliope1975]

 I think a white male Producer would have been a better fit because Effie has certain principles that she wants to ensure the movie meets, and a story and Director like this just won't be able to meet them. 

 

Well, yeah. While I think Effie has made several mistakes in how she's dealing with this idiot, if no one ever challenges the status quo, it won't change. And it needs to change.

[Jesse]

Yeah, thanks to Effie, the people working on this film are much more diverse than the ones in, at least, previous seasons of Greenlight, and they are still making Jason's movie about rich people and dick jokes and, apparently, car crashes. 

[Milburn Stone]

But that whole, "I don't give an F" is really showing. And I don't think it reflects well on her professional rep. But, hey, she's getting a ton of play, so what do I know?

 

 

My own expectation is that her phone will be ringing a lot less often.

[JyDanzig]

MasalaCurry

She should have sat Jason down and shared with him what can and cannot be done in the budget.

These are the kinds of discussions there is no time to have when the script is not ready till weeks later than expected, the location is not chosen till the last possible second, etc.  You're too busy putting out fires and resolving unneeded crises, which deprives you of the opportunity to sit down and have this kind of thoughtful discussion.
 

They should have worked out priorities though - what are the most important scenes to him, and Effie can procure them.

We have seen Effie try to do this.  The response from Jason is always that everything he wants is equally important, so nothing can be prioritized over anything else.

Well, I take that back -- we have seen him twice seem indifferent to issues of crew safety.  Which further reinforces how important it is to have a producer that takes a hard line on union & safety issues.  You really want a producer like this, when the director's priorities are:

 

1. My artistic vision

2. Actual human life

 

I haven't seen Effie really partner with him. From day one it has been a stern "No" in a school teacher stance, and then feeling offended when he hasn't agreed. In the past we have seen that they are able to go up for a bigger budget and negotiate, Effie makes it seem like they can't.

Effie has stated previously that her directive from HBO at the outset was that there was no chance of increasing the budget, and her actual job is to make sure such directives are followed (which makes their eventual caving even more infuriating).  The reason shooting on film was a stern no is because it was a stern no -- at that budget, which had been clearly presented as a firm budget, it was literally impossible.  There was no discussion to be had because there was not 300K to cut and still have a shoot.  The only reason they got that money was by Matt & Ben offering to sacrifice 200K of their fees, which is obviously not something Effie can (or should) be asking of them.
 

the movie is not right for Effie. She would do much better in a situation where there is more diversity, and the budget is kind of set.  Here her authority is questioned all the time, she is not able to partner with Jason and realize that certain things can be negotiated, and the story itself is too white for her. It just is not a good fit. I think a white male Producer would have been a better fit

I've been struggling with how to respond to this statement, and I think I'm just going to go with... wow.

Edited October 21, 2015 by JyDanzig

[pbutler111]

I can't remember if I saw this on her twitter or in an interview but she did say that the actor got paid even though he didn't play the chauffeur.

ETA: Found it

 

Don't most actors want to not only get paid, but to get actual screen time?

[lidarose9]

...the movie is not right for Effie. She would do much better in a situation where there is more diversity, and the budget is kind of set. Here her authority is questioned all the time, she is not able to partner with Jason and realize that certain things can be negotiated, and the story itself is too white for her. It just is not a good fit. I think a white male Producer would have been a better fit because Effie has certain principles that she wants to ensure the movie meets, and a story and Director like this just won't be able to meet them.

 

So only white men can work effectively with other white men? So Effie's "principles" are simply due to the fact that she's not a white male? The story is "too white" for her? So all of the problems on the set would be solved if Effie was replaced with a white male? Suddenly Jason's demands would all be met? They'd magically have signatures for a night shoot and the budget would magically be increased, extra days added? All due to the glaring uniform white maleness on the project? This problem is one tiny blip that was resolved quite easily. It has nothing to do with the heap of issues between Jason and Effie. 

[pbutler111]

No she did not. However, I have to put some of that on Jason.  He was in the production meeting when Len told them that the budget for the crash was approximately 33% of the original budget or what they needed.  (Am I not remembering that right?)  Now, I'm not in the movies. I don't have a movie mentor.  But whenever I hear that I only get 33% of what I'm asking for, I make sure I find out what I can get with that.

 

From what I can tell, Jason didn't do that.  He didn't think about what he'd have to change or let go.  So when Effie came to him, she approached it as being able to offer him something.  She'd saved money they were going to be able to use to make the stunt better--yay!  Instead, he heard her as taking something from her which is not a reaction she expected.

Yeah, Jason is bullheaded but I probably would have reacted the same as Effie.  How could he not realize he'd have to sacrifice?  There's obtuse and then there's idiotic.

 

I don't mind if Effie wants to take things further for actors of color than they were when Hattie McDaniel was out there fighting for work. It's obvious Effie considers it a larger issue than the actor's choice.  If he was there, I would think/hope he got paid. 

 

I think that's why I find I'm more sympathetic to Effie.  She makes mistakes but overall I think what she's fighting for is more important than what Jason's fighting for.  Not being able to flip a car does not ruin a story.  The scariest thing about Jaws wasn't the fangs but the music.  You can achieve suspense without rolling a car.  Every artistic thing he tried to defend just sounds like he's trying to shit with Febreeze.  Does. not. work.

 

I have very little sympathy for Effie.  Even when she's in the right she approaches things with such a snotty attitude and a HUGE chip on her shoulder that I find myself rooting for whatever she wants to be denied.  Listening to Effie constantly going on about how wonderful she is and how much she's accomplished I keep thinking about people who walk around talking about how rich they are: People who really have it don't usually have to walk around telling everyone about it.

[Julia]

So only white men can work effectively with other white men? So Effie's "principles" are simply due to the fact that she's not a white male? The story is "too white" for her? So all of the problems on the set would be solved if Effie was replaced with a white male? Suddenly Jason's demands would all be met? They'd magically have signatures for a night shoot and the budget would magically be increased, extra days added? All due to the glaring uniform white maleness on the project? This problem is one tiny blip that was resolved quite easily. It has nothing to do with the heap of issues between Jason and Effie. 

 

The person who had that job was always going to have all the responsibility and none of the power in a situation where literally everyone else in a decision-making capacity is more interested in making a successful reality series than a film. Even if (I know, hard to wrap the mind around) the powerless person had a penis, and that penis was white. I would very much like to think that the more or less constant ABW dogwhistling is a hamhanded attempt to salvage a situation where Joubert has made Matt and Ben look far worse than they thought they were going to, and not a planned statement on diversity.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Julia

[lidarose9]

I have very little sympathy for Effie.  Even when she's in the right she approaches things with such a snotty attitude and a HUGE chip on her shoulder that I find myself rooting for whatever she wants to be denied.  Listening to Effie constantly going on about how wonderful she is and how much she's accomplished I keep thinking about people who walk around talking about how rich they are: People who really have it don't usually have to walk around telling everyone about it.

 

I've lost sympathy for her too, but not because she's a black woman and not because she's deliberately trying to fuck up Jason's film, because she's not. People keep acting like she's CHOOSING to make decisions contrary to Jason's whims. She is simply the bearer of bad news. The budget is the budget and the schedule is the schedule. It is not her job to get more money for him. It's not her job to let a director to endanger the safety of the other humans. It is not her choice to enforce the laws about filming after 9pm. All of these things are MADE into a personality conflict when Jason turns it into a battle of wills rather than approaching it from a "what can we do now to mitigate this problem?" attitude. 

 

Jason seems to be genuinely surprised by most of the bad news Effie has to tell him. At some point when they had a final script, Effie and Jason would have gone through the budget and planned how to handle the tradeoffs necessary. Either Jason skipped those meetings or slept through them cuz he does not seem to understand that this film's budget never did and never will fulfill his artistic vision. That is not Effie's fault. 

 

What IS her fault is her counterproductive, annoying communication style, which is obviously not working. As the more experienced person, she should have taken steps to remedy that weeks ago. Jason doesn't understand that the two are meant to be a team working together to solve problems, but instead he treats the relationship as an adversarial one. She just looks like a kindergarten teacher with a mopey kid. They both make themselves look bad. 

 

In terms to advocating for his "vision," after seeing the deleted scene where they all clammed up during the conference call with the HBO guy about doing a "scriptment", I can see why she isn't going out on a limb for him. They all pretty much left her hanging out to dry there. 

 

Everybody seems ready and willing (almost grateful) to turn the narrative into a personality conflict between Jason and Effie, so that every time Effie opens her mouth to explain, she digs herself in deeper. So far the only person to actually speak up for Effie, strangely, was Ben.  

[Clanstarling]

I was wondering about this, too. I remember reading about Hattie McDaniel once being asked if she found it demeaning to always be cast as a servant, and she said, "I'd rather play one than be one." I have a feeling that the erstwhile chauffeur, had Effie bothered to consult him, might have very well felt the same way.

With all due respect, Hattie McDaniel worked in Hollywood between the 1930's and 1950's. She had limited choices, not just as an actor, but as a human being in that pre-civil rights era. I've no doubt that playing a servant was far better than being one in those days. I agree that the actor probably would have been okay with it (he did, after all, take the gig). That doesn't mean Effie shouldn't be conscious of, and try to change the way Hollywood casts actors of color.

Edited October 21, 2015 by clanstarling

[MamaMax]

 

What IS her fault is her counterproductive, annoying communication style, which is obviously not working. As the more experienced person, she should have taken steps to remedy that weeks ago. Jason doesn't understand that the two are meant to be a team working together to solve problems, but instead he treats the relationship as an adversarial one. She just looks like a kindergarten teacher with a mopey kid. They both make themselves look bad. 

 

In terms to advocating for his "vision," after seeing the deleted scene where they all clammed up during the conference call with the HBO guy about doing a "scriptment", I can see why she isn't going out on a limb for him. They all pretty much left her hanging out to dry there. 

 

Everybody seems ready and willing (almost grateful) to turn the narrative into a personality conflict between Jason and Effie, so that every time Effie opens her mouth to explain, she digs herself in deeper. So far the only person to actually speak up for Effie, strangely, was Ben.  

 

Effie is in a no-win situation here, though. You know she is aware that they could easily make her into the Angry Black Woman, and I suspect that is why she is talking in ways that come off as passive-agressive. I think she is really making a tremendous effort not to totally lose her shit on Jason. I think she has shown so so so much self control, but we are getting whiffs of her rage. Her smiles at Jason when he says astoundingly asinine things? I wish there wer thought bubbles over her head. 

 

I know she is getting annoying, but I still feel for her. Jason can kiss my ass and go home to Mummy and Daddy.

[JyDanzig]

Oh god, I just watched the Inside The Episode bit.  These quotes from Jason:

 

"It's unconsciounable how much neglect for the story was going on from the production side of it."

 

"Shorts are virtually the same thing as making a feature."

 

He is astonishingly awful.  To have someone this profoundly clueless and entitled as the director of a film... even watching the show, I can't imagine what a nightmare it must have been.  Effie and everyone else deserve medals simply for not walking off the set.

Edited October 21, 2015 by JyDanzig

[QuinnM]

He is astonishingly awful.  To have someone this profoundly clueless and entitled as the director of a film... even watching the show, I can't imagine what a nightmare it must have been.  Effie and everyone else deserve medals simply for not walking off the set.

 

Jason noted in one of the articles that the Farelley brothers were mentoring him and talking to him every night.  I wonder if they set him up to be such a douche.  They seemed bent on getting Effie off the picture from the beginning.  They certainly threw her under the bus when they spoke to Jason after they pulled out.  And Jason continues to say things like 'Effie forced Pete' to leave.  So I think instead of a white male producer what they actually needed were fewer white males involved altogether.  

[pbutler111]

With all due respect, Hattie McDaniel worked in Hollywood between the 1930's and 1950's. She had limited choices, not just as an actor, but as a human being in that pre-civil rights era. I've no doubt that playing a servant was far better than being one in those days. I agree that the actor probably would have been okay with it (he did, after all, take the gig). That doesn't mean Effie shouldn't be conscious of, and try to change the way Hollywood casts actors of color.

 

While opportunities might change (and many would argue they haven't), I don't think the sentiment changes with the times.  Effie can be as conscious of diversity as she likes, but, at the end of the day, the movie is about privileged white people, it's not about Effie's dream of a rainbow world.  Maybe a better approach to diversity would have been for her to speak to casting about including minority extras in all the party scenes instead of singling out this one guy at the last minute to deprive of the tiny bit of screen time he'd managed to get for himself.