S06.E02: JSS

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I like that this is a teaching show.  Any object can be used to kill.  Now Beth did not properly use her small scissors when she tried to kill the cop.  Also the cop had a gun.  

 

In this episode, Jessie showed how small scissors can actually be used as a lethal weapon.  

 

I really picture a tv show in TWD world.  A Martha Stewart show on creative ways to kill.  Jessie would host.  Carol could demonstrate.  

 

"And on today's show, we're going to demonstrate how not to thread the eye of the needle. *splat*  MEDIC!!  We got a gusher here! . . . No worries, dear, I'll be happy to knit you a pretty little peeper patch once they clear up all the blood and dead tissue out of that socket."

Edited October 20, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[NorthstarATL]

I like that this is a teaching show.  Any object can be used to kill.  Now Beth did not properly use her small scissors when she tried to kill the cop.  Also the cop had a gun.  

 

In this episode, Jessie showed how small scissors can actually be used as a lethal weapon.  

 

I really picture a tv show in TWD world.  A Martha Stewart show on creative ways to kill.  Jessie would host.  Carol could demonstrate.  

Carol would be able to demonstrate how to kill effectively AND make a killer casserole out of available ingredients all within a reasonable time limit. "Cooking & Killing With Carol"

Edited October 20, 2015 by NorthstarATL

[peach]

Someone upthread said Rick was barely in Season Four, and they were only half wrong.  Episodes without Rick:

 

• Live Bait - governor centric
• Dead Weight - governor centric with a Rick sighting at the end
• Inmates - all cast except Rick/Carl/Michonne group
• Still - the much maligned Beth/Daryl episode
• Alone - all cast except Rick trio and Carol/Tyreese/girls
• Grove - only Tyreese/Carol/girls

 

Season Five Rick-less episodes:

 

• Slabtown - Beth centric
• Self Help - Abraham's group/Maggie/Glenn/Tara
• Consumed - Daryl and Carol centric

 

 

 

Half wrong? Whatevs, it makes me mostly right.  ;P  Because he wasn't in those six episodes at all, and he was basically a minor character during the rest of the season.

 

In the beginning he was mostly farming, sweating, and muttering.  The virus episodes centered mostly on Hershel trying to cure the sick, med runs, Carol's stealth tactics, and general Lizzie weirdness.  Then they had the "war" and then he was unconscious for almost an entire episode, while Carl ate pudding.  He only appeared every third episode or so while we got voluminous backstories on everyone else, and the tedious addition of Abe and Co., and then he finished the season with a bang, making up for lost time by biting Joe's throat out.

 

Just sayin'.  :D

 

Admittedly, this has nothing to do with this episode, besides him not being in it.  But he clearly seems to be back in the saddle these days.

Edited October 20, 2015 by peach

[Bruinsfan]

Zoolander was in a TOWER with a GUN and a KNIFE and couldn't even put down a disabled walker.

If I'm not mistaken he actually missed and shot the blonde Alexandria woman in the white shirt rather than the Wolf that was attacking her. Which probably spared her a more horrific and gruesome death, but still not a ringing endorsement of Zoolander's sniper skills.

 

  I could be wrong but I think the she-wolf went to pick up Jessie's gun to finish the kill. I don't think she wasn't as into killing as the males, merely going for a weapon to finish the job.

I think she was going for the gun as well; didn't she have it in hand when Jesse charged her with the scissors?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

If I'm not mistaken he actually missed and shot the blonde Alexandria woman in the white shirt rather than the Wolf that was attacking her. Which probably spared her a more horrific and gruesome death, but still not a ringing endorsement of Zoolander's sniper skills.

 

I think she was going for the gun as well; didn't she have it in hand when Jesse charged her with the scissors?

 

Yes, she did.  Which in hindsight, was kinda weird.  I mean, they're had to be sharp objects nearby, unless she was just getting the gun to keep Jessie from re-obtaining it.

[AndySmith]

not so much if you have kids, babies and Eugene around

 

He really is a big, socially awkward manchild, isn't he?

 

I interpreted from the non verbal acting in their solo scenes after the battle was over and in passing each other in the road, as each was right in a certain way and each was wrong. Morgan got them to leave

 

But Morgan wasn't really right, he got them to leave by pointing out that they (the Wolves) don't have guns, the people in Alexandria have guns, and THEY WILL NOT HESITATE TO SHOOT YOU DEAD. Its like that episode of Desperate Housewives, where Lynette won't spank her kids when they do something wrong or wants them to act better, but she'll threaten to send them to Bree's house, and Bree WILL spank them.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Was anyone else surprised that Diana and Spencer didn't get hatcheted after wanting to stay away from the fighting inside the walls?

 

If not hatcheted, you mean to say there were no random walkers nearby to hear all the ruckus and screaming?  Not sure whether to call 'shenanigans' on that, or not.

[CletusMusashi]

Well that and, "Come around 3. We'll start with the machete."

Carl doesn't even use a machete! He's all about guns, and hats, and pudding, and, finally, after 23 inches of vertical growth during an alleged three-year period, about girls. Also, pulling out a machete, that's stuck in a skull is way more difficult than something that went in through a linear trajectory, aka a knife, or something that only has a small area to get stuck, such as a hatchet. Or... you could try something like a staff or club, that is very unlikely to get stuck at all.

So maybe, just maybe, Carl is so sick of babysitting FPP that he is deliberately sandbagging him with something that everybody thinks is a great anti-skull weapon, but is nonetheless disproportionately likely to get him overwhelmed when fighting more than one Z.

I know, it sounds like a long shot, but remember: this is the second time Carl has "tried" to teach FPP to fight. And both times, he started with a weapon that he himself does not choose to carry.

Kid's busy enough watching an actual baby.

I don't blame him a bit for wanting to dump a new cuckoo bird out of the nest.

Edited October 20, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[CletusMusashi]

 Betty would have busted a cap in Enid's ass for what she did to that turtle.  

Or at least for not sharing. " What the hell've you got there? I'm hungry too, bitch! Gimme a flipper!"

 

Yes, I know. Tortoises don't have flippers. But it's a way funnier word than "leg," so let me have this schtick, damn it!

 

Now, of course, if it was a crocodile, Betty would be very pissed...

Edited October 20, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[CarpeDiem54]

Finally got to watch and finished doing catchup here.

Carl - Dude you can do better than Enid the Dogface Girl. Let Ron have her. Don't like either one of those angsty teens.

Jesse - Now that's the way to stab someone with scissors. However, when your sucky teenaged brat came in and found you covered in blood, you should have grabbed the son of a bitch, ripped off his stupid hat and given him that haircut.

Here's something I noticed - in the last couple of scenes, Morgan was wearing a sidearm. I can't wait to find out who the cheese makers were.

Carol! You go girl! Actually, she kind of broke my heart - chatting with her pals about cream of celery soup (which I happen to love - I eat it all the time), making a casserole and then having to put her gal pals down.

I remember the doctor from a really old Law & Order where she was a teenaged sociopath. I kinda liked her. And my psychiatrist (you're surprised I go to one?) knows as much as my internist about medicine.

Great episode.

ETA - Tovah Feldshuh (Deanna) looked like shit in this episode. I hope they made her look that way and that the actress isn't sick.

Edited October 20, 2015 by CarpeDiem54

[Bec]

As much as Ron annoys me, I can see how he would feel like his mom is going form the frying pan into the fire, trading crazy violent dad for crazy violent stranger who executed his dad in front of everyone. Well, I hope after seeing his mom hack someone to death with tiny scissors, that mental image will stay with him, and he will listen to his mother now, instead of continuing to act like a little snot.

 

Every time I see characters being called weak and useless, and/or blind to what’s happening out in the world outside their walls, I can’t help but think this is what we look like (we being all of us who live in safe places) to people who have survived wars and famines and traumas of that sort. The things we concern ourselves with must seem as ridiculous to them as that lady going on about the pasta-maker.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

As much as Ron annoys me, I can see how he would feel like his mom is going form the frying pan into the fire, trading crazy violent dad for crazy violent stranger who executed his dad in front of everyone. Well, I hope after seeing his mom hack someone to death with tiny scissors, that mental image will stay with him, and he will listen to his mother now, instead of continuing to act like a little snot.

 

Gotta admit, that gives her a solid base to stand on if she needs to get "tough" with him later. 

 

Hair cuts or sheared guts?  Choose wisely, kid.

[Nashville]

Remember how the little boy was stamping everyone at the party with the letter "A" for Alexandria?  You even saw a reference to that where there was an  "A" stamped on the white post in front of a house. So the Wolves adopted the same letter stamping idea by using a "W" to stand for their group.

I'm suddenly getting the strangest craving for root beer....

 

Also, remember when Carol killed that female Wolf who was trying to take the guns out of the room where they were kept?  How would she know they were there unless she was an original exilee?

Female Wolf wasn't already in the armory - she chased Carol in there:

• Carol (disguised as Aphid) had walked up and shot two Wolves on the street.
• Right as Carol shot, three more Wolves - a woman and two men - came out of the door of the house right in front/beside her.
• Carol immediately turned and shot at them; she shot and hit one man, shot and appeared to barely miss the female (who flinched as if the bullet may have grazed her head, or come dern close), then - click.  Out of ammo.
• At which point Carol quite sensibly turns and hauls ass - with female Wolf right on her, and surviving male Wolf not far behind.
• I'm not sure at this point Carol realized how close behind her the Wolves were, because Carol ran straight to the armory - presumably for more ammo.
• No sooner has Carol entered the armory than female Wolf jumps on Carol from behind, pushing Carol into the rack of weapons.
• Carol grabs a rifle, lunges back against female Wolf, spins, and puts two rifle rounds through her chest before Wolfess can recover.
• Male Wolf arrives just in time to see his compatriot ventilated, turns, and runs back out - but not before Carol puts two rounds into his back.
• The shots weren't particularly well-placed, however; although badly wounded, Wolf dude manages to escape.

 

Guess it's a good thing Olivia doesn't have a damn clue how to unload a weapon after all.

 

I think it's plausible that Enid possibly panicked when the other walkers came around the back and then jumped in and closed the doors.  Possibly she inadvertently knocked and/or locked her parents out in the process.  But that doesn't explain why she would be covered in so much blood when, I think, she was pretty clean before.

I thought it was more likely Enid ended up in a tug-of-war with the walkers over her parents (Enid trying to pull them in the car while walkers try to pull them out)  the walkers won, and Enid ended up wearing the result.

 

Just an aside thought here: the "JSS" strikes me as something Enid may have heard from someone she respected (a grandparent, maybe?) who didn't survive - but who, while alive, (a) had a lot clearer appreciation than most (including Enid's parents) of exactly how much worse the shit could hit the fan, and (b) impressed upon Enid frequently and repeatedly how important and valuable the simple act of survival was with these three simple words.

 

Mommy and Daddy sure as hell didn't understand JSS, or they'd have said screw the car and gotten themselves and their little girl out of harm's way.  Now she's on her own because they had to keep fucking with a burnt-out fuse.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Nashville

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Mommy and Daddy sure as hell didn't understand JSS, or they'd have said screw the car and gotten themselves and their little girl out of harm's way.  Now she's on her own because they had to keep fucking with a burnt-out fuse.

 

You know, as sick and callous as this sounds, Enid might have been better off with losing her parents early on - even as horrifically as it seems happened here, right in front of her.  Because as you stated here, and earlier, Mom & Pops were clearly not survivors or had what it took to make it for the long-term in a ZA.

 

At least she had to learn early on that the only way to truly survive is to be self-dependent.  If you need to rely on someone else, you're chances aren't as good.  Another good life lesson for dealing with a ZA - having or creating strong emotional attachment(s) is not the best thing in such a world.  Not to say being in a group is bad, but not all groups or communities are CDB or ASZ.

[Nashville]

Another stray thought: Deanna's "I'll be less of a liability out here" speech?  Pure horseshit.  No shit she's a politician.

 

And when the camera did that long linger on her face when she's Keeping Alexandria Safe By Sitting In A Truck?  I found myself wondering two things:

1. Exactly how many many people have the ASZHats evicted?
2. Of that number, exactly how many told Deanna as they exited how much they'd like to burn this place down around her?

Because to me her expression wasn't an "I'm scared" look, or even a "What's going on?" look - it was a total "How do I spin this so I come out okay?" look.

A not-uncommon look for politicians.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

^ that and I got a chuckle out of Spencer not going out of his way to haul the dead walker out of the cab for Mom.  Guess he thought she needed something to bounce her loud thoughts off of. 

 

That, and you have a dumb scaredy cat on gate/tower duty - and a dumb acted-macho-but-was-just-as-much-a-wuss douche leading supply runs - because of nepotism.  Great strategistics, Diana!

I'm suddenly getting the strangest craving for root beer....

 

Sorry man, but you're Barqing up the wrong tree here....

[Ouisch]

Morgan's Mahatma Gandhi routine aggravated me to no end. Didn't he see Saving Private Ryan and what happens when you turn soft and let an armed enemy go? What was worse was that circle of Wolves around him, each patiently waiting his turn to attack one at a time, just like the ninjas do in every poorly dubbed martial arts movie. 

 

I'm thinking that maybe Morgan spent some time in an Amish community along the way, since he mentioned that a "cheesemaker" taught him his stick-wielding skills. I've thought all along that the Amish would be best suited for the ZA, being already accustomed to living without modern conveniences and all. (But would an Amish person have masterful stick self-defense skills?)

 

Don't you need eggs to make fresh pasta? I haven't seen any chickens in ASZ. 

[Johnny Dollar]

The Unfair Wolves as cult idea makes more sense to me than the idea that someone was able to round up a whole bunch of literal psychopaths to get all stabby-stabby and choppy-choppy. Maybe this will be the Walking Dead/The Following cross-over that we've all been dreaming of (OK. Maybe just me).

[GodsBeloved]

Tyreese was a bad ass is the comic and turned into an apprehensive character and now Morgan. This is the second black male character that they are doing this to. It is like they are afraid of black men being strong and embracing violence. It is repulsive and annoying.

Interesting.

 

I was cheering Jessie on when she took out the lady Wolf. I am SO glad she didn't stand on the side lines but instead got out there and protected her child. I am also glad that it was her alone and no one from from Rick's team came in to rescure her.

 

While I agree that Morgan should be putting folks down, say what you will about him but one thing is for sure. He's survived just as long as Rick and his followers. He's survived in the same world they have and he's done it without a community of support that Rick and his followers have.

 

But yeah, Morgan needs to put down obvious threats to the living.

Edited October 20, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[GodsBeloved]

Le sigh. Ok. I'm black. That has afforded me the opportunity to have made the acquaintance of a few Black men. One even raised me - I call him dad. I say all this to verify my credibility as someone with knowledge of black men - up close and in the real world, which apparently our show runners do not have. So let me inform - the quotient of black male punks is not this high. We are now on our third full grown black man who was out manned by Carol. Enough already. I'd calculate that only about 1 in 7 black males is a bona fide punk. Maybe less than that. Fewer than that are pacifists. They may run for the hills, leaving the women and children to their fate, but they would not LET THE FUCKING WOLVES GO ON GP. WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT? I cheered to get rid of crybaby Tyrese. I root for the walkers to take out FPP. Morgan you are now dead to me. Come on show!

I actually liked Tyreese (definitely some Cutty love in there) and I don't hate Gabriel (probably Carver love in there) and Morgan is still the man but yeah to all of this.

Edited October 20, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[GodsBeloved]

EVERYONE looks like a weakling next to Queen Carol.

Michonne, Darry, Rick, Glen, Maggie? Nah

[GodsBeloved]

The human race is on the verge of extinction. Morgan realizes how precious each living person now is. He's not a coward, he's not a punk, he's the only character with a long term perspective on what it means to survive the apocalypse -- and it does not involve the few remaining living people wiping each other out.

This is an interesting point. I wonder if Morgan is successfully walking that fine line between surviving in this world yet not losing his humanity.

Edited October 20, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[ghoulina]

Every time someone makes an issue of Carol's "advanced age" I feel compelled to point out that Melissa McBride, Lennie James, and Abraham's Michael Cudlitz are in fact all the exact same age.  And that both Andy Lincoln and Norman Reedus are only a few years younger.

 

Exactly! And, as far as the character's ages on the show - it's never been clear, but I always figured Ed and Carol were supposed to be around the same age as Rick and Lori, as they both had kids the same age. Carol only seems "older" to people now because as her hair has grown out, her grey is more visible. Some people grey early. But I don't think MM looks any older than the rest of them. 

 

Also, remember Merle??? Isn't Michael Rooker around 60??

 

I could be completely wrong but I think what they're highlighting with Carol and Morgan is how they're chosen philosophies are both inherently dangerous.

Carol has chosen the path of protecting herself and those she loves by becoming hard/cold/killer and it's slowly destroying her soul/sanity.

Morgan has chosen to protect himself and those he cares about by using non lethal force/methods. This protects his soul/sanity but leaves his (and others) physical well being in danger.

What needs to happen is a give and take. Morgan needs to accept that there are times when there is no other choice but to kill. Carol needs to learn that killing isn't the go to answer.

I think that was the point of their interaction several times during the episode. The scene where Morgan says "you don't like killing" and the scene at the end when they crossed paths (nice visual). Plus their separate ending scenes, Morgan killing the wolf and Carol smoking the cigarette.

I thought this was an excellent episode for both characters.

 

No, I think you're 100% right. This is what I was trying to say earlier, but could not formulate such an eloquent post about it. Thank you. 

[Cheetosandchoc]

The Unfair Wolves as cult idea makes more sense to me than the idea that someone was able to round up a whole bunch of literal psychopaths to get all stabby-stabby and choppy-choppy. Maybe this will be the Walking Dead/The Following cross-over that we've all been dreaming of (OK. Maybe just me).

 

I would enjoy a show about a post zombie apocalyptic cult. I pretty much will watch anything about cults. I would flove it if they gave it a FLDS spin . Or if JB Duggar was a leader, and it took place on the family compound.

[TattleTeeny]

Right, it was a trick of the eye seeing the graffiti against the bricks. It looked like "wolves not fair" at a quick glance. Some of us just found the thought of unfair wolves hilarious.

http://tribzap2it.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/the-walking-dead-wolves-not-far-michonne-amc.jpg?w=400&h=328

I do too -- and seeing the Wolves in action makes it even funnier, considering how...diplomatic and understated the term "unfair" is to describe their antics. Like Tim Gunn saying a dress "gives [him] pause" even though "horrid" or "wretched" would be too kind.

Edited October 20, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[JackONeill]

I got the same vibe from her. When she broke that turtle's neck and started to chow down, I actually said - "Daryl would be proud". They could sure put together a nice squirrel/turtle soup.

 

Do you ever wonder what the animals are thinking? They see some people slinking past, making gurgling sounds. Then they see other people trying to be furtive. They don't see anywhere near as many cars. I mean, really. I wonder what the animals think. (And if I could be a tree, it'd be a cottonwood.)

[The Mighty Peanut]

In the beginning he was mostly farming, sweating, and muttering.

Stop right there! He was doing STUFF. Also, THANGS.

[nachomama]

Was anyone else surprised that Diana and Spencer didn't get hatcheted after wanting to stay away from the fighting inside the walls?

 

 

I'm just picking up on Diana and Spencer. They are the royal family. 

[editorgrrl]

[Rick] was mostly farming, sweating, and muttering.

This reminded me of a great line from the recap http://previously.tv/the-walking-dead/wolves-on-walled-streets/

Maggie knows that Deanna just lost Reg and is a wreck, but the town needs to start expanding in order to accommodate stuff like farming. Remember the time farming snapped Rick out of his grief?

[Constantinople]

Re: differing lengths of time for people to turn after their deaths.

 

I think WalkerResurrection Rate is a function of Plotonium.

I just recall what Jenner said in the S1 finale, "The resurrection times vary wildly. We had reports of it happening in as little as three minutes. The longest we heard of was eight hours"

If walker in the truck didn't turn until after after being shot and killed by WhatsHisName in the tower, I'm not even sure if 3 minutes elapsed by the time WhatsHisName got to the truck.

 

So Plotonium seems the best explanation, particularly since the dead ASZhats and other dead Wolves didn't seem in any rush to reanimate (though I can't recall if you reanimate if you're shot in the head the first time you die).

 

Edit: Changed "by the time WhatHisName got to the tower" to "by the time WhatHisName got to the truck"

Edited October 20, 2015 by Constantinople

[CletusMusashi]

So Morgan's teacher was a martial arts badass who placed a high value on life and the use of nonlethal force... and who also liked cheese. I've got it. Morgan was trained by Master Splinter!

It's really sad what happened to his friends... but Enid was hungry.

Edited October 20, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[GodsBeloved]

I didn't take it as Carol V Morgan to show one is better than the other. I took it as philosophical differences in how to deal with the Unfair Wolves.

I think an issue for a few is that Carol's stance is clearly the smart, better, superior stance. Morgan's stance is stupid, idiotic and even selfish (saw that description somewhere in here). Carol is absolutely, totally right and Morgan is absolutely, totally wrong. There is no balance let alone any balance between Morgan's stance and Carol's in this situation.

 

Maybe it would have played better for some if these differences were set in a situation that wasn't so cut and dry. If a viable argument could be made for Morgan's stance and Carol's stance wasn't so clearly the right one, if there was some balance between the two then maybe this "standoff" being seen as simply showing philosophical differences would have been how some viewed it.

Edited October 20, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[CletusMusashi]

The first time Morgan faced the Wolves, there wasn't nearly this level of uproar about him opting for mercy. There were some people, sure. Just like there are still people thinking "Oh, just play it safe and kill Nick!" But the reason Morgan-bashing is so prevalent this time is that, this time, his philosophy really is a problem. I mean, sure, he slows them down a little, but if they can get right back up, with no concussions or broken limbs or anything, why would they not just attack again? Does he think they have some kind of dueling code that they honor?

All he really gets out of them is:

"Oh, I get it. Thanks for the advice, Morgan. Next time we'll crash a truck into the guard tower."

Edited October 20, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah. Fighting against the non-Governor people from Woodbury was a situation with gray areas, and room for discourse with and reconcilliation with the opposition. Defending your homes from murderous raving lunatics who are chasing people down and chopping them to hamburger, not so much.

 

Michonne, Darry, Rick, Glen, Maggie? Nah

Carol's not the hand-to-hand combatant that any of the above are, but Michonne and maybe Glen are the only ones that come close to being as quick-witted and inventive as she is. I'm not at all certain anyone else could have come up with a successful strategy to singlehandedly bring down Terminus. And I definitely don't think any of them would have been able to do what had to be done with Lizzie.

[ghoulina]

I think an issue for a few is that Carol's stance is clearly the smart, better, superior stance. Morgan's stance is stupid, idiotic and even selfish (saw that description somewhere in here). Carol is absolutely, totally right and Morgan is absolutely, totally wrong. There is no balance let alone any balance between Morgan's stance and Carol's.

 

I didn't really see it that way. While Carol's stance was right in this case, in regards to your literal physical safety, I did think Morgan had a point - she doesn't LIKE doing it. Not entirely. Not every time. As another poster talked about in depth, Carol and Morgan BOTH need to find balance. He needs to realize that there are times when he'll have to abandon his philosophy, because lives are at stake. And Carol probably needs to unharden her heart a bit, talk to others, let herself feel again. She is becoming almost too hard, and you can tell in those quiet moments that it's hurting her. Her philosophy may save her life, but she might lose her mind in the process. Reverse that for Morgan. 

[GodsBeloved]

While you do make valid points, I disagree that black men are weak in a way no white man is. If what Morgan showed in this episode is weakness, if Tyreese's kindness was weakness, then Hershel and Dale were equally weak, and yet their legacy in the show is "wise moral compass", not "weak old dude". 

I think the difference between Morgan/Tyreese and Hershel/Dale is that with Hershel and Dale it wasn't so black and white (no pun intended). 

 

Morgan didn't kill folks who were a clear and immediate threat to others. Tyreese didn't kill the man who threatened to snap poor Judith's neck. Dale was fighting for a bound up Randall without knowing or having good reason to see him as a future threat. Though I don't remember if Hershel fought for Randall like Dale did but Hershel had no more insight to Randall than Dale did.

Edited October 20, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[DEM]

While Carol's stance was right in this case, in regards to your literal physical safety, I did think Morgan had a point - she doesn't LIKE doing it.

 

Except Morgan related that spiritual guidance in the middle of a fight with people who were chopping people to hamburger, unprovoked.  Therefore, it rang hollow and was irrelevant to the situation at hand.  Also, does he even know Carol?

Edited October 20, 2015 by DEM

[peach]

I think it's going to come out that back when Morgan was "Clear" level of cuckoo, some cheese maker spared his life instead of killing him as he probably should have at the time.  Morgan was able to have a strange conversation with Rick back then, because they had a connection, but he was probably tried to kill Cheese Maker.  The tables were turned, and Cheese Maker had mercy on him, and actually adopted him and turned him into Stick Fu Master.  So, naturally, he thinks any crazy killer has a chance to turn that frown upside down. 

 

The thing is, Morgan was a good and decent man before he lost his grip, so it was possible for him to become himself again.  Who knows what these Wolf people were like before.  I'm guessing they probably were not solid citizens.

[JusLaugh]

So Morgan's teacher was a martial arts badass who placed a high value on life and the use of nonlethal force... and who also liked cheese. I've got it. Morgan was trained by Master Splinter!

It's really sad what happened to his friends... but Enid was hungry.

 

Kawabunga, dude.

[GodsBeloved]

We have seen Rick go through this same dilemma by sparing someone's life it killed others.  

Whose life did Rick spare and they turned around and killed others?

[catrox14]

Morgan's Mahatma Gandhi routine aggravated me to no end. Didn't he see Saving Private Ryan and what happens when you turn soft and let an armed enemy go? What was worse was that circle of Wolves around him, each patiently waiting his turn to attack one at a time, just like the ninjas do in every poorly dubbed martial arts movie. 

 

I'm thinking that maybe Morgan spent some time in an Amish community along the way, since he mentioned that a "cheesemaker" taught him his stick-wielding skills. I've thought all along that the Amish would be best suited for the ZA, being already accustomed to living without modern conveniences and all. (But would an Amish person have masterful stick self-defense skills?)

I like this idea. If Morgan hung out with some of the Amish from Banshee, PA he certainly would have learned mad ninja skills and he needs to immediately recruit them to join CDB. They are some scary mofos. (This is a reference to the TV show BANSHEE which I highly recommend for flat out batcrap crazy shenanigans and brutal but great fight scenes)

[Boofish]

If Morgan had the same attitude as Carol - Rick, Daryl, Aaron and FPP would be dead. Although the latter I'm not sure too many people would miss

[peach]

I also think Carol may see herself as "damaged goods," in the sense that she's already committed heinous acts, right or wrong, and therefore it's her burden to carry on severe acts for the group at large.  So they don't have to.  I didn't feel like she had anything to prove to Morgan.  That was entirely a one-sided conversation on his part.  She was going to kill those invaders, period, and Morgan's opinion or even presence was irrelevant to her. 

 

In some ways she reminds of Clint Eastwood's antihero character in his old westerns.  He's emotionally and mentally separate from everyone else, while he operates as the necessary killer the rest of "society" doesn't want to be, yet needs in desperate circumstances.  And he's usually disliked by them.

[DrSparkles]

...Enid, ugh I hope she's gone but considering she got a backstory I'm sure we will see more of this character.  I'm over it.

Sooo, I don't watch this show as carefully as some of you... Who the hell is Enid? Where did she come from? Was she on the show last year? Did we know any of her backstory before? Who does she live with?

Also: god, I HATE Betty White.

[GodsBeloved]

Carol's not the hand-to-hand combatant that any of the above are, but Michonne and maybe Glen are the only ones that come close to being as quick-witted and inventive as she is. I'm not at all certain anyone else could have come up with a successful strategy to singlehandedly bring down Terminus. And I definitely don't think any of them would have been able to do what had to be done with Lizzie.

But Carol didn't singlehandedly bring down Terminus. She played a part for sure but the fall of Terminus was a team effort.

[The Mighty Peanut]

So Morgan's teacher was a martial arts badass who placed a high value on life and the use of nonlethal force... and who also liked cheese. I've got it. Morgan was trained by Master Splinter! It's really sad what happened to his friends... but Enid was hungry.

OMG--Enid killed Donatello! Morgan is using his stick passed down by Master Splinter.

[gaPeach]

Whose life did Rick spare and they turned around and killed others?

 

 

There was a conversation between Carl and Rick where Carl tells Rick he should  have killed the Governor when he had the chance.  Because he didn't the Governor killed Hershel etc.  There was someone else but I can't remember who. 

 

Rick started out as a lawman trying to keep order as if society had not fallen apart and it wasn't working.  Shane accused him of it too.  Rick had to find a middle ground to survive in this world and that meant killing people that would come back and harm you.  Case in point (well kind of) is the guy that just had to Stop Running.  Rick hit with car and then took him out in mid sentence.

 

And as others have said Morgan has not been in a group setting for the entire ZA so he has a learning curve he needs to get through.  Its one thing to be on your own and avoid killing people and moving on.  Its another thing entirely to be part of a group that is settled. They want to live there in peace.  The wolfs just want to kill them.

[CerealKiller]

One thing that irritates me, and has since the first episode, is that the Zombie virus/bacteria appears to turn the skull, whether alive or dead, into wet cardboard. The ease at which everyone can stab any object, from a tree branch to a nail file, into someone's skull is ridiculous. Last episode zombie heads were bursting open simply by walking into the corrugated metal fence. This episode our stalwart heroes are stabbing the Unfair Wolves in the brain with no effort whatsoever.

[Ocean Chick]

Don't you need eggs to make fresh pasta? I haven't seen any chickens in ASZ.

 

 

I'm willing to bet Carol can make pasta using applesauce and cream of celery soup.  Delicious with Cola canned ham!

 

Or she just uses flour and oil, with a bit of water.  After all, egg is essentially just a mix of water, fat and protein. 

[Ocean Chick]

Whose life did Rick spare and they turned around and killed others?

 

Andrew at the prison, for one. 

 

Well, technically Rick didn't "spare" him.  But he gave him a chance by locking him in the exercise yard with some walkers and telling him he'd "better run".  Andrew had a chance to evade the walkers and climb out of the yard, which he evidently managed to do.  And came back later, resulting in the deaths of Lori and T-Dog.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Ocean Chick