S11.E02: Form And Void

[Tara Ariano]

Dean helps Jenna, the nurse he met after the Darkness fell, get back home safely, but she soon falls into dangerous hands. Meanwhile, Sam deals with a town infected by a mysterious and deadly gas that is turning the locals into monsters.

[Mick Lady]

catrox in three, two, one....

[catrox14]

Edited October 14, 2015 by catrox14

[Jediknight]

Boy, nice of them to introduce the awesome Jenna last week, only to kill her this week, and have her kill her grandmother.  Way to go guys.

 

Also nice of them to already have Sam find a cure for the Darkness Virus, and for it to be revealed that Amara is The Darkness.  There's a thing called building to the payoff, and not giving it away immediately.

 

Crowley and Dean are always great together.

[Demented Daisy]

Well, that happened.  Hannah's dead.  Can't say I'm surprised.  *sigh*

 

Death found it funny that Sam and Dean kept dying and coming back?  Not the way I remember it, but Carver's great at those throwaway lines that defy canon.

 

Lots of "mother" imagery in this episode.  We'll see if it means anything.

 

Crowley still lives.  He's done more evil than practically all the other bad guys combined and he still lives.  Funny how someone bigger and badder always comes along to distract the Winchesters.

 

I'm not angry.  I'm not even annoyed.  I'm... bored.   

[Jediknight]

Crowley still lives.  He's done more evil than practically all the other bad guys combined and he still lives.  Funny how someone bigger and badder always comes along to distract the Winchesters.

And yet, he's done nothing compared to the damage the Winchesters have done.

[Morrigan2575]

Loved the new Reaper, or was that the new Death?

If Billie was a Reaper who is the new Death since she talked about Old Death getting a kick out of Dean/Sam constantly coming back.

Father Crowley FTW! I don't think I'll ever get tired of him, he's too entertaining. I also enjoyed the jokes. Who you going to call...Ghostbusters! That actually had me LOL. The other one was Crowley joke about Dean being a delicious Alter Boy.

Little Girl Amara was creepy as hell but, they usually are. I really love Casteel but I'm just done with the Angel storyline.

Almost forgot, I know I wasn't supposed to find it funny but the scene with Sam burning the Darkness out with a Marshmallow cracked me up.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[curlygirl]

I think that was rolled up gauze, not a marshmallow.

[Ferniesfreckles]

Not gonna lie, I got chills when they showed what the little baby had done with the blocks. Creepy as all hell

I know it's not too practical but I had hoped they had kept the baby girl just a little longer. She was too precious!

I wonder if the reaper said those specific words to Sam to help him figure out the cure. I did notice last week that Dean had packed the holy oil amphora into his bag.

It did look sort of like a marshmallow, didn't it?

What was with the music and the video, though? Was it just to attract the zombie people?

Another good episode.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Ferniesfreckles

[AwesomO4000]

Well, that happened.  Hannah's dead.  Can't say I'm surprised.  *sigh*

 

Death found it funny that Sam and Dean kept dying and coming back?  Not the way I remember it, but Carver's great at those throwaway lines that defy canon.

 

Lots of "mother" imagery in this episode.  We'll see if it means anything.

 

Crowley still lives.  He's done more evil than practically all the other bad guys combined and he still lives.  Funny how someone bigger and badder always comes along to distract the Winchesters.

 

I'm not angry.  I'm not even annoyed.  I'm... bored.   

 

I'm bored and annoyed. They managed to make Sam's storyline somewhat boring and a bit ridiculous. I might not have felt that way if I hadn't seen almost the same plotline in of all shows Little House on the Prairie. No really. For some reason Caroline Ingalls was home all alone for a while. She cut her leg. It got infected and she slowly got worse and worse. Finally while delirious and after asking God for help, she read the internet... I mean The Bible, and the words of a passage stood out saying if something offends you "cut it out" and she had the epiphany to slice the infected cut with a heated knife. What am I supposed to do with that?

 

Similarly I agree with Sam about the "vision" he got "What the hell is that supposed to mean?" And now if either of them dies, they get cast into nothingness. Instead of making me worried for the boys, it makes me sad. Now they have absolutely nothing to look forward to unless they somehow outwit the reapers or somehow get on their good side. I don't like that little wrinkle at all. And that had to be one of the most understated, unexciting "victories" I've seen on this show. Either most of it happened offscreen, or Sam saved three people and most of the others died before being saved. And how much holy oil - which doesn't look much like oil in my opinion - is left in that container anyway?

 

There was a bright side to Sam's story, though. I was glad to see him asking for Dean to be spared and helped, because he thought Dean should have that. So I guess there was that.

 

Dean's story was a little better, but why does it seem that Crowley always has to get the better of everybody all the time on this show? Is he the "hero" (or anti-hero in this case) of the show now? The only way I'll be happy about this is if in the future Crowley has to come crawling to the Winchesters for help, because he created a monster by helping Amara.

 

Castiel's story was just depressing - torture, torture, everyone else dies... couldn't we have skipped most of the torture part and just had Castiel hulk out earlier? It would've saved a lot of time.

 

I guess it could've been worse. I'll give this a few more episodes, but next week if it's still all the bad guys mostly winning while Sam and Dean flounder, I'll have one foot out the door.

[Tippi Blevins]

Shouldn't there still be dead Stynes littering the bunker? And didn't the Stynes blow off the front door to get inside? Did Castiel clean up and fix everything after Dean beat the feathers out of him?

[Morrigan2575]

I think that was rolled up gauze, not a marshmallow.

Well, that's not funny. I like the Marshmallow better

[FlickChick]

Well, I was bored and offended. The title "Form and Void" - well, there was very little storytelling "form" and IMO it was "void" of entertainment. As mentioned above, they kill the young cop they introduced last episode as well as her grandmother, change the baby into a little girl who goes off with Crowley (whom Dean left rather than trying to kill), and St. Sam figures out a cure for The Darknesssss from a bible verse and cures himself and others. Gag me with a spoon. What has happened to show I use to love????

[7kstar]

Shouldn't there still be dead Stynes littering the bunker? And didn't the Stynes blow off the front door to get inside? Did Castiel clean up and fix everything after Dean beat the feathers out of him

From the Season 10 DVD outtakes, they had Sam cleaning up before he went to save Dean.

 

It was the maid...Cas with his little fairy dust.  lol

 

Okay, Although I liked a few moments, Dean & Crowley once again a save...Sam saving himself and others, but it was also tedious, boring & predictable. 

 

I still like the opening of Dean with the adult Darkness in the black swirl...not sure why.  So much for them surprising us...I think that is a fail as they can't see how we predict most of it way before it happens.

 

The color flowers mean something, Crowley's where have you been...but I'm sure with a few more hints we will figure it all out in advance.  :)

[Wynne88]

I'm maybe in the minority, but I mostly liked it, except for the Castiel torture scenes.  I have yet to get all that interested in the angel storylines, even though at times I have liked the character of Castiel.  

 

It's been impossible to take Sam or Dean's death seriously for years because they kept getting resurrected like a Jack in the Box.  Now that option is off the table, which I'm sure is intended to heighten the anxiety when they are in terrible danger.  Of course, since we know the show doesn't happen without them, it's still going to be impossible to take their impending deaths seriously anyway, but good try.

 

I loved Crowley as a Priest, and Dean's expression when he sees him.  Also liked the reappearance of the demon killing knife; I've been wondering where it was.  If I'm nitpicking, I do have to wonder why the heck Dean didn't use it.  There was no logical reason for him to leave Crowley alive.

 

I also liked the reaper, and although I have no idea why she was singing, I enjoyed it anyway.  Since I don't like Sam or anybody else with black ugly veins all over their necks and faces, I'm glad he came up with a cure.  I actually thought Jared did a good job with Sam this week.

 

It was enjoyable enough for me to watch it again, which is saying something I guess.

[Mick Lady]

I'm all alone here, because I liked this episode! Maybe I've just lowered my expectations, maybe because it's Supernatural, but at any rate, I had fun.

 

I love Crowley, no matter what he does. As for the rest, well I'm in for the ride. We've invested far to much in this show to give up now.

 

Having sais that, AwesomO4000, your post made me laugh like hell! I just hope I can find a way to use the "she read the internet... I mean The Bible" line soon!!

[SueB]

Well I liked it. Surprise! I know.

I'm way past bedtime so I'll provide more comments tomorrow.

Best line: Want some candy?

[catrox14]

I actually liked this episode mostly minus the weird music cues at the end.

 

OH MY GODS.  Dean holding baby!Amara was lovely and sweet and just unf.

 

But I beg of you show, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not Dean have sexytimes with that grown up 'Darkness/Amara'. I just can't handle that thought. That's just skeevy and I do not want.

 

I did not expect the baby to spell FEED ME out of the blocks. That legit made me laugh.

 

I called the baby protecting Dean. But again that was so she could remain protected by Dean. 

 

I didn't think Dean would actually stab Crowley, but then once he did I really didn't know whether he would take the demon knife to him (which where has that been hiding?) 

 

Poor Hannah:(. I can't be upset with her because she was trying to keep heaven together and Cas did get Metatron out which messed up her situation. It's just sad. :(

 

Don't care that Jenna was killed. I figured she would be because that's how this show rolls. Meh.

 

Poor Cas.  But damn Misha was great in this episode. I was so happy he made his way back to the bunker. I really did not expect him to do that. Also, I thought the Stynes blew off the door? Did Sam just put that back on by himself?  And Dean was desperately calling Cas gave my heart joy.  Cas not giving up Dean and Sam's whereabouts.  DAWW my heart!

 

So the woman singing was a reaper, but now we find out that it was just funny to Death that they kept coming back? Nah.. I'm calling shenanigans on that one. I don't believe for a minute Death found them funny at all.

 

If Sam and Dean die they are going to "Oblivion" because Dean killed Death trying to spare Sam.  Gods. That is some fucking depressing potential ending.

 

I still don't understand how there is death with no Death. I don't really trust that aspect.

 

Maybe I missed something but Sam did not tell Dean about being seeing that flash of him being tortured, did he?

 

I miss the old "Search the Web" . Why did they drop that? It was better than "Websummon" blech.

 

Not sure what I think about the music cues in this episode. 

 

I'll have to do a rewatch and see what I think.  Yes, I watched earlier than usual.  Don't judge me.

[7kstar]

I'm all alone here, because I liked this episode! Maybe I've just lowered my expectations, maybe because it's Supernatural, but at any rate, I had fun.

 

I love Crowley, no matter what he does. As for the rest, well I'm in for the ride. We've invested far to much in this show to give up now.

 

Having sais that, AwesomO4000, your post made me laugh like hell! I just hope I can find a way to use the "she read the internet... I mean The Bible" line soon!!

I've lowered my expectations...but there were moments I loved.  Dean holding the baby.  The Reaper with Sam, and Dean and Crowley.  So a solid Average show.  I think the actors really tried but parts were so obvious that I didn't react.  Certainly not the worst ep ever.  :)  Hoping next week is entertaining...

[Mick Lady]

Thanks 7kstar, catrox and Sue! I was feeling so alone!

[ahrtee]

I have to admit, I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the actual storyline...it jumped around too much and I kept losing the thread (mostly from lack of interest).  But I have to say this week I was more amused than annoyed.  I just let the random thoughts roll without trying to make them make sense.

 

As in:  how much holy oil do they have in that one amphora?  As I recall, Cas had to go to the Middle East back in season 5 to get some to trap Raphael and said it was very rare.  Since then, they've used it innumerable times, from summoning/trapping various archangels to spotting hellhounds.  Does Cas refill it periodically?

 

Next :  when Sam lit up the Holy Marshmallow and brought it to his neck, all I could think was "you're going to set your hair on fire!"  Luckily, he realized it just in time.  But it seems just waving the puff in front of him would have worked just as well, since the others were cured just standing inside the flaming circle without ever getting too near the fire.  And that has to be the fastest and easiest cure ever!

 

I also have to admit, when the reaper told Sam he was "unclean in the Biblical sense," my first thought was:  Well of course he's not Kosher!  Second thought was that he's not a leper, either.

 

Re Sam's prayer:  he asked for a sign, not a set of instructions.  No need to get pissy.     

 

For the rest of it, I'm not a fan of gratuitous torture and gore, and I couldn't find any reason whatsoever for the angels to even be in the episode except to get rid of Hannah once and for all.  And IIRC, the "halo of torture" device they were using to "probe" Cas...was used by demons to get into Samandriel's programming (and later Gadreel's mind).  Naomi used a dentist's drill.

[catrox14]

Wait a minute. Was Jenna's grandmother the pagan wife in the Christmas episode?

[AwesomO4000]

Having sais that, AwesomO4000, your post made me laugh like hell! I just hope I can find a way to use the "she read the internet... I mean The Bible" line soon!!

 

Hee. Well, I'm glad I made you laugh, Mick Lady... because I was kind of weirded out. I was wrinkling my brow at my TV when Sam's vision swam at the internet words just like they did for Caroline with even similar weird effects highlighting the relevant words, thinking "Wait, Sam is the mother from Little House? What does this mean?" I am hoping that maybe one of the writers actually saw that episode, too, when he/she was a kid and the "homage" was deliberate.

 

On reflection, the episode definitely wasn't the worst, and with a second viewing I might like it even more... because there were some genuinely creepy parts. And most of my annoyance is at having to watch torture again and at the fact that Crowley is still alive... Dean, you are so going to regret not killing him. Crowley told you he wanted to find the baby. I don't care what he told you about why. Of course he's going to want her so he can do something bad, advantageous to himself, or both, and the chances are really slim that just killing the Darkness is going to do that. *Sigh. Goes to sit at her lonely "I want to see Crowley covered in spiders" table*

[catrox14]

Okay. So Dean in this episode.

 

He seems like he goes into that weird state when Amara is threatened just like he did when he had the Blade (where the fuck is that thing, CAS, I'm looking at you!) like when he stabbed Crowley and was trying to decide about killing him and then decided that finding Amara was more important. So does that mean he really didn't get rid of the Mark from his soul..? Or is the Darkness actually controlling his reactions because he ever had the Mark?

 

Another thing that's weird.  Dean questioned "How is it possible for Amara to not have a soul".  Ummmmm Dean you know EXACTLY how it's possible for her not to have a soul!"

 

Is that more canon fuckery? Or was it intentional? 

[Mick Lady]

Another thing that's weird.  Dean questioned "How is it possible for Amara to not have a soul".  Ummmmm Dean you know EXACTLY how it's possible for her not to have a soul!"

 

This drove me crazy! Sam ran around for most of season six without a soul., remember Dean?

 

I did love the "Fairy" episode though.

 

Dean: Our reality's collapsing around us, and you're trying to pick up our waitress? Sam: Yeah. Okay. Look. Brings up a question. So, say you got a soul and you're on a case, and your brother gets abducted by aliens— Dean: Yeah, then you do everything you can to get him back. Sam: Right! You do, but, what about when there are no more leads for the night? Are you supposed to just sit there in the dark and suffer, even when there's nothing that can be done at that moment? Dean: YES! Sam: What? Dean: Yes, you sit in the dark and feel the loss. Sam: Absolutely! But couldn't I just do all that and have sex with the hippie chick? Dean: No! Sam: It'd be in the dark. Dean: No you couldn't because you would be suffering, and you can't just turn that off for the night.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Mick Lady

[catrox14]

 

This drove me crazy! Sam ran around for most of season six without a soul., remember Dean?

 

RIGHT?? That's why I was like WTF are you saying Dean!? That made no sense whatsoever and I'm trying really hard to apply that to my theory that this is all some wibbley wobbley timey wimey butterfly effect shit.

 

Because otherwise that is quite possibly the worst canon continuity fail this show has EVER had.  Holding on to the hope this is purposeful and not just purposeful canon destruction with no explanations.

[AwesomO4000]

What Dean should have said is "how is it possible that she lost her soul"or "how is it possible that she doesn't have a soul now." (since she obviously had one before.)

 

So maybe that could be explained by a poor choice of wording, but what drove me more crazy about that scene was that Dean seemed surprised that Jenna wouldn't want her soul back or that she wouldn't have remorse about killing her grandmother, because duh, Dean... you spent a bunch of time with soulless Sam and he displayed some of these very same behaviors... and then there were soulless people in that episode where you got really drunk and Sam went on a case and called you and told you all about how weirdly they were acting... and Sam figured out they were acting like they had no soul and he told you all about that, too. So Dean knows very well how soulless people act, so that he was surprised at how Jenna was acting while soulless seems silly. He instead should have been asking "how did you lose your soul?" and she very well might have answered "oh, yeah, the baby ate it," because why not? She wouldn't care if Dean found out.

 

Dean also should have been concerned about what Jenna was going to do once he found out she was soulless, because - potentially dangerous there, Dean, and he of all people should know that. So Dean acting like he doesn't know how soulless people behave is even more the canon continuity fail for me.

Edited October 15, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[Omegamom]

Um. I liked it. They're doing some interesting cuts and cinematography. They're also doing a bunch of scenes without music, which I like.

While baby Amara throwing the blocks at the wall was creepy, all I could think when I realized she wanted Amara-food was, "FEED ME, SEYMOUR!" ;-)

I like that Crowley is back to being a real bad guy. I thought Dean didn't gut him with the demon knife because he still is either kind of weirdly fond of him or it's the old "devil you know" thing.

"A luscious altar boy." Hah! Though I'd expect grandma to get a bit huffy at that.

Having never seen that episode of Little House, I thought it was kind of neat how Sam figured it out. Though, yeah, the amount of "very rare" holy oil the boys have used over the years is pretty impressive.

"Want some candy, little girl?" Hah!

The torture was overdone. Kinda torture porn, sigh. And I'm very sad that Hannah is gone. I liked her/him. Were there angel wing ashes on the floor? I didn't see. How did Cas get to the bunker? Or, if he angel-hopped there, why didn't he angel-hop away from the farmers hunting him? Or was it desperation that did it?

Dark. The two episodes were dark in tone. Is the whole season going to be grim?

And was Sam seeing visions of Dean getting tortured, or was it visions of the guys in the Cage getting tortured? Or was it his own memories? I think it was either his own memories or visions of the others in the Cage, and his sign means to talk to them...

[Lii]

Once the soul nonsense fail occurred I pretty much raged out and blanked the rest, only to come around in time for the reminder that this show decided it would be awesome to burn a shitload of books last year. Ugh.

There were several continuity fails in the torture porn portion of the episode as well. Don't care though, angels are dicks and angel storylines are more boring than my husband's old AD&D stories.

This episode was the continuity equivalent of an OVA holiday special. Probably we'd all be better off making like it didn't happen.

[smree]

I enjoyed that episode but it's time for the angel storyline to go. Keep Cas but somehow close heaven & lock the angels away. 

 

That baby was so cute and creepy!

[placate]

Another creepy child takes the place of the monster of the week.  Yay, she's not Lillith but she's a kid whose growing up fast that has been eating souls.  I did like Crowley as the Catholic priest in this episode, and I liked Billie.  I don't like no definite meaning about what the darkness is, and people just getting sick.  I hope they fix Cas next week because we still have Kevin's ghost floating around, killing Death messing with the whole world, and the rest of this introduced plot not being interesting.

[lynnea6]

Wait a minute. Was Jenna's grandmother the pagan wife in the Christmas episode?

 

No, but she seemed so familiar, and thanks to IMDB I realized it's Delores Herbig (Dead Like Me).  Loved that show.

[Lii]

What, exactly, is the actual intended function of angels? You know, the original thing they used to do, back in the day before they got sidetracked with murdering each other and torturing each other and warring with each other and starting apocalypses out of boredom and generally being violently useless? I feel like there is probably something else better than this that they could be doing. Like all going home and staying there. And doing so in an off screen fashion.

[Iguana]

Hey y'all. Its been a while since I've been here and it's lovely to be back with you guys for another season of our mutual obsession, Supernatural.

This ep was a mix of good and bad for me. Good that things moved forward with the main plot lines, bad that Sam, Dean and Castiel were in their own independent mini episodes this week. Good that Crowley showed up with candy souls for the Darkness and lucious altar boy quips, bad that Dean didn't kill him yet again, because of...plot? Good that Sam found a cure, bad that it doesn't make much sense. And so on.

And okay. Now that Hannah is dead, can we just let the the Heaven's Angel stuff go for a while, at least. Please? I think that well ran dry a long time ago, and I'm so very bored with dick angels doing dick things to humans, each other and Castiel.

[Demented Daisy]

And most of my annoyance is at having to watch torture again and at the fact that Crowley is still alive... Dean, you are so going to regret not killing him. Crowley told you he wanted to find the baby. I don't care what he told you about why. Of course he's going to want her so he can do something bad, advantageous to himself, or both, and the chances are really slim that just killing the Darkness is going to do that. *Sigh. Goes to sit at her lonely "I want to see Crowley covered in spiders" table*

 

Make room for me!  (And at least one other, but she hasn't weighed in on the episode yet....)

[Aeryn13]

Caver/Singer/Dabb before the shiow:  The Darkness is something pre-biblical so there really is no rule book and none of the usual answers to be found in books and lore, bla bla

 

Actual episode 2:  Sam finds a cure for darkness infectation in about 5 minutes on google.

 

That must be even lamer than the curing of Demon!Dean. And that was already the bottom of the barrel in terms of lameness.

 

At least Dean didn`t have to give a grovelling pimping speech. Thank god for that.

 

Jensen must have had some time off here because his scenes were all rather short. Maybe post-production on ep 3. 

 

Last week, they still had a chance to make the Darkness a different kind of villain. Here, they pretty much established it as one-note evol. How intriguing. Not.

 

The Reaper threat, am I supposed to care? Noone will kill the Winchesters off permanently until the last episode of the show so no matter what, they can`t introduce "death matters" back in the narrative. No, it still doesn`t.

 

Crowley is back to being frenemy without the "fr". Lets see how long that lasts until it flip-flops again.

 

Overall, I found the episode pretty boring. Last week wasn`t that eventful either but I had those few short scenes between Dean and the Darkness in the mist to tide me over. This one had Dean holding a baby which is cute but  otherwise not a single scene to interest me.

[SueB]

First watch thoughts-

I LOVED Sam yelling up at God "What the hell is that supposed to mean!" It's like he knew he got an answer to his prayers and BAM it was torture in the Cage. Of course, last week there was a mention of Cage screaming .... So, I'd say that we the audience at can can put two and two together and say that it means the answer lies in the cage.

I'm pleased Sam's Holy Marshmellow fixed the problem. We've seen the boys packing the Holy Oil in these we-don't-know-what-is going-on moments so I had no problem with Dean packing it last week and Sam using it this week. As for supply, well either they found a connection (once they realized its value) or that jar is a TARDIS (bigger on the inside). Personally, I'm going with this is something they've taken to stocking a larger container in the Bunker and refill it when they are refilling Holy Water and salt rounds. I don't think the cure was all that easy. I think Sam got the cure with a little help. First, you have the Reaper come in for a little evil monologuing. She took a human form, sung Death's tune to draw Sam, called him unclean, and then gloated about not getting any kind of eternal rest. So he got the Biblically unclean. But did you notice the Internet words were yellow highlighted? Maybe he got a divine assist during his darkness induced bleary-vision.

I could totally see God giving Sam a little cage vision before giving him some immediate help.

I have no problem with Reapers still functioning. First, I don't think Death is dead. I think he's off the plane of existence again (like before Lucifer did his ritual in Carthage). He'll be back, and unamused. I swear, I have this vision of God and Death shooting the bull somewhere and God's boys are the Winchester and Death's routing for 'natural order'. And God laughing at Death for letting Dean kill him.

Sam's video and music choices. Well, that explains it. An old black and white film and 'Sugar Shack'. Really Sam, you've got Sugar Shack on your playlist'? No wonder Dean insists on his music. Just satin'. Actually, I think meta drove the song choice (no budget).

I found the unusual music cue when Dean went to Amara's cradle kind of exciting. And intentionally different. Like in, this is not business as usual.

Speaking of which, I think that pesky Ferguson personality spared Dean. And Dean just killed Death, I'm not sure he's ready to take out another power player. I found it interesting that he bulked out a bit when Crowley said he was going to do something with the Baby.

I generally loved Crowley in the episode. 'I was getting bored'. He loves to casually throw around power. But he may be forgetting his own mantra, he might just be underestimating those denim clad nightmares (the Winchesters) to his own peril. It was also a nice little world building that he has th Fr Crowley persona ready to go for exorcism calls.

Dean and the Baby - yep, Houston we have a problem. Although we didn't see him explicitly tell Sam about the 'bound' conversation, to me the wrap up at the end implies they swapped stories. And the secrets won't be played up. Either they were revealed in the offscreen car or they are not going to fester.

Edited October 15, 2015 by SueB

[Aeryn13]

 

I could totally see God giving Sam a little cage vision before giving him some immediate help.

 

God went off eons ago and never answered anyone, not any of his angels, archangels, noone. He didn`t come when Lucifer was freed and the apocalypse on the horizon. He didn`t come when the Leviathans were freed. But of course he answers Sam Winchester, the most special and important person in the galaxy. I can see the show doing it but it is this exact kind of writing that made Sam my least favourite character ever.

 

Hopefully they`ll keep up the connection between Dean and the Darkness. Even if it`s apparently just a one-note evil entity, at least someone finds Dean important. I`ll take what I can get here.     

[smree]

One thing that threw me out of this episode was was that Dean seems off. The way he's holding himself; some of the facial expressions reminded me of Dean playing Jensen playing Dean in 'The French Mistake'. I wonder if this is deliberate.  

[SueB]

Got the rewatch in over exercise!  Yay.  So... more thoughts:

 

This and the premier has a LOT to unpack.  I appreciate that if you don't like to unpack episodes, then this might piss you off.  To me, if you just want to enjoy it once and done that's like 80% of the audience and I STILL think it works.  What do we KNOW at that once and done level (now that part 2 of the premier is over)

- Darkness is definitively bad. Death wasn't lying.  And eating souls is PERFECT for the Darkness.  If God brought the light and souls, then eating those souls (those part of God, perhaps, that resides in man).... well isn't that a way of destroying God?  I like the mechanism (from a narrative perspective).  

- Sam and Dean have sunk to even LESS popular than they were before.  How that is possible, I can't say.  But if the Reapers didn't care before, they definitely are chomping at the bit to take some revenge on them.  Heaven hates them ('natch) and now Crowley may or maynot have just declared them fair game.  IDK if he's that stupid.  

- I liked Jenna's Grandma - her instincts were right. And I'm bummed Jenna is dead.  But it make sense so I'm not bothered.  

- Cas is back with the boys!  Pardon me while I do the Dance of Joy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rr9A2o5DAM

 

(ps, Josh Whendon is playing the part of Numfar if you didn't get this reference)

- Sam got an answer to his prayers. From whom? IDK.  Personally, I think whoever it is may have a sense of humor.  God? Metatron?  Not sure.  Looking forward to finding out.

- Dean definitely went into "protect the baby" mode when threatened by Crowley

- The Adventures of Growley and Squirrel are still my favorite scenes.  "Scrumptious", "Velma", "Daphne", "Has Been Rock Stars".  Great banter between these two.

- I believe Hannah was forced by the group to try the ruse with Cas.  Heaven is worse without her. 

- I was thrilled to see Cas back into BadAss mode.  Yes, he was tortured, but when Hannah was threatened, he essentially CALLED on the bestialus spell to help him out.  And it worked.  Nicely done my broken-winged friend.  

- And how great was the call-back to Abandon All Hope?!  I loved the utility of the hardware store.  A reminder that Sam and Dean are trained home-made terrorists/McGuyvers by their Dad.  The "speaker" system and the taser were perfect.  

 

Deeper stuff:

- Dabb usually does a lot of heavy lifting from a mythology perspective. And I think this one was no different.  It makes perfect sense that Burning Holy Oil would be required for a ritual of purification.  Oil is typically used for anointing, since ancient times, it's a indication that one is chosen for God. Burning is an offering as well as cleansing.  So a ritual that offers up the individuals to be reclaimed away from the Darkness and back for the Light.  Yep... I like the symbolism.

- As I said above, the Darkness eating the "Light" that is in people (their souls). Excellent symbolism, again.

- I liked the music cue being so different for Dean when he was charging in to get to the baby. It's out of step with Supernatural.  That's good.  That's the kind of subtle "something is wrong" hint. Frankly, it reminded me of the music from Dark Angel - which was a pseudo post-apocalyptic world with a techno vibe.

- Crowley is so playing out of his weight class. He correctly identified that Amara is a evil world-shattering threat, and he got CLOSER.  It's pure Crowley but he's playing a very dangerous game.  OTOH... this is exactly what excites him.  He's bored easily.  I think that's HIS Hell.  And he hung with the Winchesters because they were interesting.  But he was TOTALLY eating up the intrigue with a spoon this week.  I'd say he's as happy as he gets right about now.  And so Dean, you are tossed aside like yesterday's news for his new playmate.  

- Cas is interesting in this episode to me.  They wanted info on Metatron and yet he didn't tell them Metatron was powering up with the Demon tablet.  Why?  If he was truly penitent for what he'd done, wouldn't he want to have Heaven issue some intel with their Metatron APB?  Shouldn't the Angels KNOW he's got a power source?  I'm thinking he decided anyone who tortures no longer gets info.  Of course you've done that YOURSELF Cas.  So... IDK.  Now Weasel Angel #2 was right - he's totally Team Winchester.  But I think he was prepared to die for them, the hulk out was due to Hannah getting beat IMO.

- Nice namecheck of Naomi BTW.  

- The Reaper - ooooh I liked her.  She was there to provide a message.  She said it directly.  She didn't need human form to reap souls.  She was taking her sweet time to let Sam know he and Dean are on their list.  I liked the menace and the level of threat it provides.  Meta says that they will NOT end up in the ether, but Sam and Dean need to have a little more fear of death.  So I like her raising the stakes a bit.  Plus, awesome voice.  

 

 

Issue Response:

- Boring is in the eye of the beholder - I was riveted.

- Sam said they were going to try to cure everyone.  With the help of the newly purified, I imagine a house-to-house search for survivors was warranted.  They could pool them all in a gym (using Sam's home-made taser for the hostile), and have one big fire circle.

- I think the Angels WERE content to stay in Heaven and protect the souls there. I think the alarm bells that went off (per Hannah) drew them out.  

Edited October 15, 2015 by SueB

[Omegamom]

Okay, Crowley being bored makes him darting around to investigate odd possessions at the behest of the Vatican a bit more likely. That was bugging me; why not send a higher level minion instead?

[SueB]

Okay, Crowley being bored makes him darting around to investigate odd possessions at the behest of the Vatican a bit more likely. That was bugging me; why not send a higher level minion instead?

Actually, I think Crowley does it to catch rogue demons and personally punish them.  Because he can.  Maybe he gets them for dart practice.  

Edited October 15, 2015 by SueB

[Primetimer]

Who knew reapers could sing so well?

Read the story

[catrox14]

One thing that threw me out of this episode was was that Dean seems off. The way he's holding himself; some of the facial expressions reminded me of Dean playing Jensen playing Dean in 'The French Mistake'. I wonder if this is deliberate.  

 

That's a really  interesting observation. I mentioned that in the first episode thread that something seemed off. I was thinking more like the Levia!Chesters or maybe a Tall Tales shifting viewpoints POV thing or as I've speculated that it could be Metatron mucking about.

 

I've thought they were both off but I notice it more with Dean. I made argument in the 11.01 thread that Dean would use the word "untenable" when others didn't think he would. I mean yes it was noticeable but I didn't think it was particularly OOC like some did as though he wouldn't know the word at all which ruffled my "Dean is not dumb" feathers.

 

However, when I rewatched the episode I felt like Jensen was really over doing his Dean growly voice and the manner seemed off to me the entire time.  But I thought well, okay, maybe Dean is just in overdrive mode because of the Darkness or the Mark is still messing with him and everything is weird.

 

I thought they seemed almost TOO in sync to me. Getting out of the car at the same time. Drawing guns at precisely the same time. Showing their necks to Jenna at the same time. Dean quipping in a stereotypical Dean way as though it was check list or something. The weird way they announced that they are FBI. 

 

Dean seeming like he had no idea how to deal with this and just throwing everything in the bag which okay but odd.

 

Sam seeming to be scared and hiding in the first episode versus plotting his next move. Sam not understanding what the flashback was about when he immediately should have known it was about Lucifer and that should have freaked him right the fuck out.

 

Sam having to google Bible and be reminded about Holy Oil. Sam not pushing back on Billie the Reaper when she said he was unclean, Biblically. Sam said he had been purified during the trials, so why wouldn't he have been all HELL NO, this isn't right, I am clean. I was made clean by the trials.  Even Sam saying "When did we forget how to do this" was strange to me. 

 

 

Interestingly enough, Jared and Jensen both have mentioned the body swap episodes lately in the cons as some of the craziest out there things the show has ever done. They bring up the French Mistake a lot more when being asked about favorite episodes and how fans have stuck with the show no matter what nutty things they've done. It's long been a fan question about what happened to Jared and Jensen when Sam and Dean came into their universe.  Then we've had all the gender swapping with meatsuits and vessels.

 

Holy crap! What if somehow the Darkness really did change time. OR what if to save Dean and Sam someone (God) zapped them out again and we are seeing Jared and Jensen in Sam and Dean's world.

 

OMG. That really would explain a whole lot of stuff.  This is quickly becoming a new head!canon for me to noodle on so thank you for that @smree. Oh man.....

 

/off to the spoiler and spec thread

Edited October 15, 2015 by catrox14

[Mick Lady]

*Sigh. Goes to sit at her lonely "I want to see Crowley covered in spiders" table*

 

Awesom04000, remind me to never, ever piss you off!

 

You really do talk to spiders and everything....

 

[AwesomO4000]

God went off eons ago and never answered anyone, not any of his angels, archangels, noone. He didn`t come when Lucifer was freed and the apocalypse on the horizon. He didn`t come when the Leviathans were freed. But of course he answers Sam Winchester, the most special and important person in the galaxy. I can see the show doing it but it is this exact kind of writing that made Sam my least favourite character ever

 

God has answered people before. He answered Sam and Dean in heaven through Joshua. He's also interefred on both of their behalfs and Castiel's. I think it has been pretty much established that God doesn't mind interfering a little bit for the Winchesters. Unfortunately he's fairly capricious about it, inerterfering when it suits Him, but not caring to, say, oh I don't know... get Dean or Sam out of hell perhaps? Bastard.

 

I'm not even sure that it was God answering Sam, myself. The imagery makes me wonder if it is Lucifer "answering his prayers". Lucifer is a fallen angel, so I suppose he might be able to answer prayers, and because of the Darkness shaking up the cage a bit so that the demons in hell can hear them, maybe Lucifer and Michael can now communicate more easily. I found it interesting that Sam didn't get his vision until after he left the church area, and that his vision was way more reminiscent of his experiences in Hell than anything else... And it seemed to me a message like "open your eyes." It looked more like one of Lucifer's teachable moments / lessons to me than a message God would send. And Sam doesn't quite understand ("What the hell is that supposed to mean?" - which exactly, Sam: hell), because if I'm remembering correctly, he doesn't have the information about the cage being shaken up like we do.

 

- Cas is back with the boys!  Pardon me while I do the Dance of Joy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rr9A2o5DAM

 

(ps, Josh Whendon is playing the part of Numfar if you didn't get this reference)

 

Before you gave the Joss hint (because I was going to read the rest of your response before clicking the link), this is what came to mind for me:

Now we are so happy, we do the dance of joy!

 

(See, I'm not always scary, Mick Lady. I have many facets. ; ) )

 

And I tried to post this earlier, but the forum ate it - fortunately autosave saved me from having to do the entire thing again.

[catrox14]

 

("What the hell is that supposed to mean?" - which exactly, Sam: hell

 

See this is what is niggling at me.  Why would Sam ever say "What the hell is that supposed to mean".  I think he would have been so freaked out by a flash to Hell he would have known immediately what that meant. He didn't lose his memories after the wall collapsed. He had to dig himself out and around IIRC.  He just doesn't live in that head space because Lucifer is in the cage. Maybe I don't remember that well because s6 just pfft for me on the Sam front. '

 

I can believe him saying "WTF as in why the fuck am I seeing this" again. Not like he had zero clue about any of it.

[DittyDotDot]

NOOOOO! Bastards! How dare they kill Delores Herbig and now her big brown eyes are no more on Supernatural. Boo! Hiss! ;)

 

That's all I have to say...oh wait, I will also say there was a delightful creep factor to some of the camera work in this episode. Now if they could just tone down the lights, make the angels make sense and do something I hadn't already speculated on a good two months back...sigh. Yep, I know. 

 

Seriously, BASTARDS!!!

[Omegamom]

Sam would be freaked out by a flashback to hell. He'd recognize it, of course. But how would he know it meant he needed to chit-chat with Luci? We know, because we're analyzing everything to death here, and we have hints and whatnot that Sam doesn't have. All Sam knows is that Bob was warred on by God, stuffed away in the void, and locked up. In the meantime, Sam's dealing with a town full of Bobveins, has a case of the Bobveins himself, knows he's dying, and doesn't know that the boys in the Cage are raising a ruckus down in Hell. So "What the hell does that mean?" is pretty understandable to me...

[Mick Lady]

Quick question. Why didn't Bob turn Jenna? Was it because she was in a car, like Sam? Did you have to be outside like the road workers to initially be turned?

 

And another thing. If you're infected you die, so what's Bob's point?

 

One more thing, and I'll shut up.

 

Crowley is the King of Hell. Does he watch over the cage?

 

I'm going to bed. This show has over taken the NFL in my life. That's scary!

Edited October 16, 2015 by Mick Lady