Episode Discussion: TFGH

[sometimesfan]

I liked AJ (and I will forever mourn the potential of Quiz.  Man I really like him and Liz together and it irritates to no end how the writing keeps disavowing their connection as Jason grief or whatever), but I wasn't a diehard fan or anything.

 

But his return from the dead, and being able to form a relationship with Michael, was a sign for me that the show was finally changing, that it was finally moving away from a model where the Quartermaines were constantly shit on and where Sonny and Carly were always in the right. 

 

But then they killed him and dedicated the episode afterwards to Sonny and Carly's great love affair (gag) and now it's all, "Poor Sonny.  Poor Carly."  And you realize that actually nothing has changed.

 

I liked AJ and found myself rooting for him to finally win, but Frank and Ron were more concerned with making Franco and Silas fit into the show than a character with real history. 

[Cattitude]

And again, how are we, the audience, supposed to forgive Carly for her actions when she's NOT SORRY?

 

I would at the very LEAST, like Carly to say to someone, "well I did what I did because I thought it was for the best but I'll wait here for however long it takes to get over his anger and not pressure him because I can understand why he's angry." She can't even do that, it's just "well, it's been two months now. You aren't STILL holding that grudge, right?"

 

This is my problem with Carly too. I don't have as much problem with Sonny b/c he is giving Michael his space and seems to fully accept Michael will never forgive him. Add to that I understand his motivation in killing AJ and the reason he is still not sorry he's dead. I do believe if he could go back and know that AJ didn't kill Connie he would not kill him, but it is kind of like if you hate someone and they die. You can't change that they are dead but you aren't sorry. I kind of think that is what Sonny means, he can't take back that AJ is dead and he can't make himself be sorry AJ is dead(b/c he hated him) but I do think if he could go back he wouldn't kill him now knowing what he knows. Whereas I can't understand Carly's motivation for acting like she is. Michael is her son and as Sonny realizes he does need his mother. He also sees she would be much easier for Michael to forgive if she showed any kind of remorse, but she is choosing to support Sonny over Michael which makes no sense.

 

I know this is probably exactly what will happen but I would be so grateful if it didn't.  There were a couple of times (I think in conversations with Robin and at least one at AJ's grave at the Quartermaine crypt) where Jason acknowledged that stealing Michael from AJ was wrong and that Michael suffered for it.  Jason apologized to AJ's grave.  When he gets his memories back and Michael plays him the recording of AJ begging Sonny not to kill him, I hope that Jason affirms Michael's decision to cut out his parents.  Jason cut out his parents for significantly less.  Old Jason was all about respecting people's decisions and not telling them what to do; as much as I don't want old Jason back, I would be okay with this trait making a comeback in relation to Michael's decision.  

 

Since everyone expects Jason to bring Michael back to Sonny and Carly, maybe Ron will do the opposite and have Jason fuel Michael's hate.  It would be a nice twist.

 

But to me in the end was it really healthy for Jason to turn his back on his family? I would think if nuJason wants to be a better person he would realize fueling someone's hate against his family isn't the right thing to do.

To me the story is like them or not Carly, Sonny and Morgan ARE Michael's family and his anger in the end hurts him far more than it hurts his family.

 

Also from my perspective(addressing the bold part) yes even though bad things happened to Michael in the past being raised by AJ might or might not have kept those bad things from happening or other bad things may have happened instead. The end result is Michael is a capable young man who is running his own life and is CEO of a large company, so was being raised by Carly and Sonny such a bad thing in the end? The answer to me is no.

[LeftPhalange]

 

I don't have as much problem with Sonny b/c he is giving Michael his space

 

Because he's in prison and physically can't get near Michael unless Michael pays him a visit.

[Sake614]

Sonny wanted to kill AJ long before Kannie came into the picture. There is no remorse in Sonny's mind for what he did, other than that he promised Michael he wouldn't and did it anyway. Sonny didn't kill AJ because he thought AJ killed Kannie. he did it because he wanted AJ dead. He's admitted as much. And as LeftPhalange said, the only reason he's giving Michael space is because he's currently in prison and can't get to him. He's sorry he broke his promise to Michael, not sorry he killed AJ. How many times did he rue the day he made that promise because it prevented him from killing AJ?

Also to your point of would bad things have happened to Michael if he hadn't been raised by Sonny and Carly? possibly, yes. But he certainly wouldnt have been shot while Standing in a mob boss' warehouse, causing him to spend a year in a coma. And he wouldn't have been sent to prison for killing a madwoman who was trying to kidnap his baby sister, and having his mob family try to cover it up. And therefore he wouldn't have been raped in prison because he was the son of a mob boss. And he wouldn't have wanted to BE a mob boss.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Sake614

[jsbt]

I liked AJ (and I will forever mourn the potential of Quiz.  Man I really like him and Liz together and it irritates to no end how the writing keeps disavowing their connection as Jason grief or whatever), but I wasn't a diehard fan or anything.

 

But his return from the dead, and being able to form a relationship with Michael, was a sign for me that the show was finally changing, that it was finally moving away from a model where the Quartermaines were constantly shit on and where Sonny and Carly were always in the right. 

 

But then they killed him and dedicated the episode afterwards to Sonny and Carly's great love affair (gag) and now it's all, "Poor Sonny.  Poor Carly."  And you realize that actually nothing has changed.

 

I agree with all of that. But especially the stuff about the romance - I thought A.J., Liz and Carly were the second coming of Rick, Lesley and Monica. Both women meant something very different to one very flawed, imperfect man. I adored that. They could have played that out for years. I liked him with both of them a lot, and both women had any number of other viable options to make it a good quad. Predictably, Ron was only toying with it because he had a few weeks off without Roger Howarth - organic chemistry and story did not fit into his grand plot architecture and he was full of pride over RH and the OLTL stars, so anything that got in the way had to go. It was a horrible waste. And it wasn't just them - so much of the show tanked overnight after those three came back. It has never been the same, and it was (IMO) doing pretty well, give or take some dud stories (Rafe).

Sonny wanted to kill AJ long before Kannie came into the picture. There is no remorse in Sonny's mind for what he did, other than that he promised Michael he wouldn't and did it anyway. Sonny didn't kill AJ because he thought AJ killed Kannie. he did it because he wanted AJ dead. He's admitted as much.

 

I agree with this, but I actually think Sonny has shown a smidge more genuine remorse than Carly. I think part of him - maybe it's more Maurice's performance than the text - seems to quietly acknowledge what he did to Michael and why it was wrong, not just that it was wrong that he lied.

Edited January 21, 2015 by jsbt

[Bishop]

 

Also from my perspective(addressing the bold part) yes even though bad things happened to Michael in the past being raised by AJ might or might not have kept those bad things from happening or other bad things may have happened instead. The end result is Michael is a capable young man who is running his own life and is CEO of a large company, so was being raised by Carly and Sonny such a bad thing in the end? The answer to me is no.

My belief is that Michael is well adjusted because of Jason and NOT Sonny and Carly.  Jason was the one that was always there for Michael, and it was Jason who got him through the rape, not his parents.  I would say that Michael grew into a decent man IN SPITE of his parents.  I'm not saying that they don't deserve some credit, but Sonny and Carly would leave their kids with nannies, especially Michael, when their love lives were spiraling out of control.  Jason always had the time for Michael and always went to Michael when he called.  Now don't get me wrong, the three of them put Michael's life in constant danger, and he has been severely traumatized with everything he's been through, but being raised by S&C wasn't bad in the end largely due to Jason - who also brought him over to the Q mansion regularly once Jason realized that he'd been an idiot about how he had treated them. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Bishop

[peachmangosteen]

Tis. I don't think he [Dante] does trust her [Carly] - but he's waaaay too nice to her. 

 

I think in general Dante is way too nice to most people, which is why, and I'm sorry to bring this up again for 100th time, his attitude towards AJ is so fucking annoying. But whatever I'm over it! I like Dante a lot so I need to find a way to just ignore his Sonny's Son-ness.

[Cattitude]

Also to your point of would bad things have happened to Michael if he hadn't been raised by Sonny and Carly? possibly, yes. But he certainly wouldnt have been shot while Standing in a mob boss' warehouse, causing him to spend a year in a coma. And he wouldn't have been sent to prison for killing a madwoman who was trying to kidnap his baby sister, and having his mob family try to cover it up. And therefore he wouldn't have been raped in prison because he was the son of a mob boss. And he wouldn't have wanted to BE a mob boss.

 

I guess my big deal is look at Lulu she was raised by her parents and she still had many bad things happen to her. Who's to say Michael still wouldn't have ended up in prison for one thing or another and still gotten raped. I don't think you can say for sure if he would have been raised by AJ things would have been much different b/c Carly was still his mother and associated with mobsters. Even Sonny being just his stepfather would have still put him in his life. In some ways b/c the Q's always get the short end of the stick having a lifetime with AJ could have made Michael's life turn out worse not better. Plus as I said to me his life now aint all that bad anyway.

 

It also seems to me that what people who want Michael to hate Sonny and Carly are really wanting it justice for AJ. I think it is more caring about AJ than caring about Michael. I just don't see how Michael's hate helps Michael all it does is avenge AJ. I don't care much about AJ as I never knew him(though I love both SK and BW) but I do like Michael and want him to be happy. So while I also don't hate Sonny wanting Michael to forgive him or at least not hate him is more for Michael than Sonny. Sonny doesn't deserve Michael's forgiveness, but Michael deserves more than to hold on to unhealthy hate. So for that he needs to get past his anger and accept that Sonny does have some place in his life b/c like it or not Sonny did raise Michael as his son.

[jsbt]

I guess my big deal is look at Lulu she was raised by her parents and she still had many bad things happen to her. Who's to say Michael still wouldn't have ended up in prison for one thing or another and still gotten raped.

 

I will take that bet!

 

I care about both Michael and A.J. What was done to that kid was wrong, what was done to A.J. was wrong and what was done to both of them last year was even more wrong. I get that you didn't watch the character, but I did - I watched all those years. I do agree Michael can't hold onto hate forever, but I also don't think that means he must then therefore accept Sonny in his life in the same way as he did before. Yeah, Sonny raised him, yeah, they had a real bond and a real love and family. But it's Sonny who's destroyed that. To me the drama comes in the realignment of those characters and their lives and worldview. They will have to coexist, but how do they do it? Sometimes they will be definitely adversarial, as Michael is now, and other times who knows. But it can't and shouldn't be what it was.

Edited January 21, 2015 by jsbt

[GHScorpiosRule]

Except Lulu wasn't raised by her parents. Maybe for the first two or three years of her life, but then Laura went Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and was institutionalized, and then Luke didn't give any more two shits about her. Lesley, her grandmother raised her, and then in a space of a year or two, she was SORASED, from a five year old, I think to the snotty 15 year old when Julie Berman showed up. And she didn't have any use for her grandmother or father. She even clashed with Tracy.  And that could be put down to typical teen rebellion.  But my point is, that Luke and Laura didn't raise her.  But she was loved; that said, I think she felt the absence of Luke and Laura, which may have led to her being so, well, not so nice, and not giving a damn, while at the same time, wanting Luke's love and attention, which led to her getting in trouble and being reckless.

[rur]

Lololol. Jason passed out. …

I wonder if he's going to go back to remembering nothing or if he'll still have flashes. 

 

I've been thinking about this, too. IIRC, Helena said before the Faison-freeing task that he would forget "everything" after he'd completed that mission. He didn't complete this mission, so does this mean he'll still remember that he's supposed to kill Sam and Paddy when he wakes up? 

 

(I know what I called Robin's husband. This is just a personal issue of mine: http://www.behindthename.com/name/paddy -- It's just the Irish in me.)

Edited January 21, 2015 by rur

[HeatLifer]

Lol, Sonny and Carly didn't raise Michael, though. Leticia and Jason did!

Edited January 21, 2015 by HeatLifer

[jsbt]

IIRC, Lulu was already somewhere between six and nine years old by the time Laura went off to the kookyhouse.

[HeatLifer]

I've been thinking about this, too. IIRC, Helena said before the Faison-freeing task that he would forget "everything" after he'd completed that mission. He didn't complete this mission, so does this mean he'll still remember that he's supposed to kill Sam and Paddy when he wakes up?

(I know what I called Robin's husband. This is just a personal issue of mine: http://www.behindthename.com/name/paddy -- It's just the Irish in me.)

I hope he just remembers to kill Patrick. Heh. But that's an interesting question. I just want him to remember something. I really don't think it's necessary to go back to square one, but this is Ron who will probs do the reveal in 2017. Edited January 21, 2015 by HeatLifer

[dubbel zout]

If you want the audience to forgive a character, don't have him do irredeemable things and then act like the burden is on the audience to reconcile it when the writers clearly have no ability to reconcile it themselves.

 

This is one of the most frustrating things about Ron's writing for me. You can't use the terrible things as plot points and then act as if they mean nothing. If you want me to forgive a character who does terrible things, the character has to actually be sorry about it, especially if you're trying to redeem the character. 

 

Lol, Sonny and Carly didn't raise Michael, though. Letitia and Jason did!

 

And Mercedes.

Edited January 21, 2015 by dubbel zout

[Aurora2]

This is one of the most frustrating things about Ron's writing for me. You can't use the terrible things as plot points and then act as if they mean nothing. If you want me to forgive a character who does terrible things, the character has to actually be sorry about it, especially if you're trying to redeem the character. 

 

I totally agree!  As Ron piles on improbable plot points for shock value, he puts characters in untenable positions - with characters doing terrible things without any thought of consequences.  Look at Dr O and how quickly she went from being a rightly-arrested criminal; to be being COS at GH.  Unbelievable!

 

And he does it all with a few keystrokes - as if to rather arrogantly say:  "It's all right because I said it was all right."

[dubbel zout]

Look at Dr O and how quickly she went from being a rightly-arrested criminal; to be being COS at GH. Unbelievable!

 

I'm okay with this. I'm not saying it isn't ridiculous, but Victor put pressure on the board to get Dr. O the position: She didn't earn it properly. At least she is a doctor. I don't think Ron made her CoS to redeem her. It's a way of keeping her around until he needs her for the next plot point. 

 

With Franco, though, we're supposed to forgive his terrible deeds and believe he's now a good guy. Just because he had a tumor and made a few DVDs that told the "real" story. RoHo is not playing him as someone who's truly sorry and wants to make amends. I always get the feeling Franco is thisclose to another killing spree.

Edited January 21, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

I think in general Dante is way too nice to most people, which is why, and I'm sorry to bring this up again for 100th time, his attitude towards AJ is so fucking annoying. But whatever I'm over it! I like Dante a lot so I need to find a way to just ignore his Sonny's Son-ness.

When Dante's a jerk I don't think of him as Sonny's son, I just think of it as him being a jerk all on his own. My boo should be able to claim all of his personality, including when he's being a dick, apart from Sonny, heh.

[Cattitude]

Except Lulu wasn't raised by her parents. Maybe for the first two or three years of her life, but then Laura went Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and was institutionalized, and then Luke didn't give any more two shits about her. Lesley, her grandmother raised her, and then in a space of a year or two, she was SORASED, from a five year old, I think to the snotty 15 year old when Julie Berman showed up. And she didn't have any use for her grandmother or father. She even clashed with Tracy.  And that could be put down to typical teen rebellion.  But my point is, that Luke and Laura didn't raise her.  But she was loved; that said, I think she felt the absence of Luke and Laura, which may have led to her being so, well, not so nice, and not giving a damn, while at the same time, wanting Luke's love and attention, which led to her getting in trouble and being reckless.

 

This kind of was my point. What I meant was no one kept Luke and Laura from being Lulu's parents but they kind of weren't anyway. If Sonny wouldn't have interfered with AJ being Michael's dad things still may not have worked out any different b/c AJ had his own issues and demons too. Plus let's get real these are all legacy soap children their lives are never going to be anywhere near normal.

[TeeVee329]

I'm okay with this. I'm not saying it isn't ridiculous, but Victor put pressure on the board to get Dr. O the position: She didn't earn it properly.

 

I mean, she basically bought the hospital as a getting-out-of-jail gift to herself (recall she gave a huge donation to the hospital that was apparently secretly bankrupt).  And honestly, Ron hasn't shown Dr. O being bad at the job.

[jsbt]

I'm okay with this. I'm not saying it isn't ridiculous, but Victor put pressure on the board to get Dr. O the position: She didn't earn it properly. At least she is a doctor. I don't think Ron made her CoS to redeem her. It's a way of keeping her around until he needs her for the next plot point. 

 

I think they want to 'redeem' her, though. They've worked hard to make her a rootable character and tried to force us to sympathize with her. Her many musical numbers, weeping about her children's love; her losing Britt and moaning about Anna the sanctimonious hypocrite. That's all firmly on her side. They want her to keep doing bad things but always have a get out of jail free card, and also still be somehow in the right/not so bad.

 

Victor is dead, and I have a hard time believing Frisco Jones wants to honor that corrupt deal. By rights they should've come to throw Liesl in a CIA black site for eternity. I didn't have a problem with Obrecht becoming COS, because it had plot possibilities and Kathleen Gati is an incredible talent. What I have a problem with is that no one is ever allowed to get the better of her, not Robin, Anna or even Patrick. She also hasn't paid for what she's done to Robin, a real cost - and Britt leaving town is not that. If they gave me a pound of flesh I could accept her remaining the scheming, hated COS for a while longer. Instead she runs roughshod over most characters, loses nothing and still gets many musical numbers to cry and moan over her wooden children.

Edited January 21, 2015 by jsbt

[LeftPhalange]

Was it ever explained where Mother of Detective Plywood and The Other One got enough money to keep the hospital afloat?

[jsbt]

I assume it was Obrecht's years of blood money.

[peachmangosteen]

When Dante's a jerk I don't think of him as Sonny's son, I just think of it as him being a jerk all on his own. My boo should be able to claim all of his personality, including when he's being a dick, apart from Sonny, heh.

 

True. But I think the 'Dante hating AJ' stuff is very Sonny's Son since the only reason at all for him to just instantly hate AJ and treat him like shit is because Sonny doesn't like him. 

[TeeVee329]

Yeah, I assume Obrecht saved by not buying Britt any Christmas presents or paying for her higher education.

[Francie]

I mean, I'll give Sonny that, I think he did say it more than once.

 

I would at the very LEAST, like Carly to say to someone, "well I did what I did because I thought it was for the best but I'll wait here for however long it takes to get over his anger and not pressure him because I can understand why he's angry." She can't even do that, it's just "well, it's been two months now. You aren't STILL holding that grudge, right?"

 

I'll give this to Ron, I feel like it's been at least a month since we saw Obrecht. Christmas? It's like even he realized O. holding Nathan's hand and singing a damn carol was officially too much.

Has Ron ever thought that something was too much?  More like he's been distracted with finding 101 ways to insert Fluke into every storyline.

[Aurora2]

There was more to the conversation. It was:

 

Dante: combined with the lies, it's pretty much the most unforgivable thing anyone could have done.

Nathan: But you think Michael is going to far pushing his family away.

Dante: I don't know! I don't know. I'm the first person to say Sonny belongs in prison but I also can see why he did what he did, why he killed AJ, in the moment.

Nathan: Yeah but wanting to do it and doing it are two different things.

Dante: Yeah, obviously, which is where I get tripped up. The impulse versus actually going through with it. I don't even know my feelings for  . . . I barely knew AJ Quartermaine, he meant nothing to me. But he meant a lot to my brother. 

Nathan: I'm sorry your family's going through this.

Dante: Yeah, me too. I want to be there for Michael, and I am, but no matter what Sonny's done, he's still my father.

 

And then they changed the subject.

 

Bias aside, I don't think he meant "AJ deserved it" but "I can understand how you can shoot a man in anger." But if that's the case, if a person can't control their impulse to murder someone, then they belong in a mental hospital at the very least. My response isn't, oh okay well then it's okay for Sonny to go free. My response is "well then this guy with no impulse control needs to be locked up."

 

 

I didn't get the impression at all he was okay with AJ being murdered because he felt nothing for him - he was just clarifying his (non) relationship with AJ, that was all. 

 

Thank you the specific dialogue, ulkis.  After reading the words and watching the scenes again, I'm fine with what Dante said. Although I agree that the AJ reference could have been omitted or re-worded, I didn't find it particularly offensive in this context. As for his other comments, he agreed that what Sonny had done was terrible and that he deserved to be in prison.   He acknowledged what AJ meant to Michael and he spoke about wanting to support Michael.  As for saying Sonny is his father, - I can't fault that.  Sonny IS Dante's father ... and we can still care about family members even when they have done terrible things.  And, besides, Dante is the same man who often talked to Lulu about looking for and wanting a father.  He is the same man who grew up in a tight-knit Italian where family bonds were important.  And he is an essentially good person.  All reasons why I think it would OOC if Dante didn't continue some parental bond with Sonny, no matter what Sonny has done.  The connection is irrevocably now part of Dante's life.  Can't unring that bell!

 

I agree with ulkis.  Dante had just come from punching Johnny in the face, so he understands the impulse for violence when being egged on.  I think the comment about not knowing AJ was more about, "I don't know if he's like Johnny, egging Sonny on, and therefore the impulse gets out of control".  

 

But then I'm biased for Dante!!

 

Again, like both ulkis and perkie, I see the essential point raised in Dante's words being the key reference to impulse control   To me, that's what the conversation was mostly about (in addition to being one of RC's perfunctory nods to Dante being part of the Corinthos family). Dante had just left a scenario with Johnny where he started to lose his own impulse control and he had to work to fight his darker side.  He understands that kind of anger.  But he also understand that having the impulse and following through on it are two entirely different things.  

 

And, Perkie, I'm biased for Dante, too.  I admit it.  But then I kinda figure he deserves some support after  becoming a Charter Member of the "Characters Thrown Under The Bus For Sonny Club" in February, 2010, when the writers did a left turn with his character and had him lie about Sonny's having shot him.  

Edited January 21, 2015 by Aurora2

[TeeVee329]

Has Ron ever thought that something was too much?

 

That's the thing, I think sometimes he does.  He said in some interview, I think with Michael Fairman, that he knew going back to the masks well was probably a mistake.  The problem is that he did it anyway.

[ulkis]

True. But I think the 'Dante hating AJ' stuff is very Sonny's Son since the only reason at all for him to just instantly hate AJ and treat him like shit is because Sonny doesn't like him. 

 

Maybe he got it from off-screen lunches with aunt Bobbie and Lucas* since apparently they hate AJ for no reason either!

 

*You know they hang out all the time on off-screen GH! Just like skype chats with Laura!

That's the thing, I think sometimes he does.  He said in some interview, I think with Michael Fairman, that he knew going back to the masks well was probably a mistake.  The problem is that he did it anyway.

 

Maybe that's Ron's reason for identifying with Sonny. Guza's was living vicariously through Sonny and Jason's supposedly primetime-character-like bullshit, Ron's is they both have no impulse control.

 

Thank you the specific dialogue, ulkis.

 

 

No problem, but I was missing a small piece - there was one part I couldn't make out though and neither could the closed captioning - right before Dante said "AJ Quartermaine meant nothing to me", DZ garbled the dialogue a bit. Something like "I don't want to talk about - " He needs Constance to tell him to speak up a bit. :)

[Aurora2]

No problem, but I was missing a small piece - there was one part I couldn't make out though and neither could the closed captioning - right before Dante said "AJ Quartermaine meant nothing to me", DZ garbled the dialogue a bit. Something like "I don't want to talk about - " He needs Constance to tell him to speak up a bit. :)

 

"Mumbling"  - voice lessons with MB?  

[Turtle]

I agree that if Jason retains some of his old personality, he should take Michael's side in this.  Not just because Jason was supposed to be all about respecting other people's decisions but also because everyone always said that Jason put Michael first no matter what.  I'm sure we could debate for days whether Jason actually *did* put Michael first, but that's what we've always been told. And in this case, I think Jason would see Sonny & Carly's betrayal of Michael as a pretty big deal, and o Michael's response is not out of line.  Also, I know Jason wasn't an AJ fan but Jason's hate of all things Quartermaine had been cooling off for a while, and AJ was his brother.  He'd at least be upset on Monica's behalf.

 

It also seems to me that what people who want Michael to hate Sonny and Carly are really wanting it justice for AJ. I think it is more caring about AJ than caring about Michael.

 

Not for me. It is 100% about how terrible Sonny are Carly are.  Sonny shot Michael's father in cold blood even though he knew that Michael had gotten close to him and even though he had promised Michael that he wouldn't kill AJ.  Carly didn't think twice about keeping Sonny's secret and even used it to get back in to bed with Sonny.  Again.  And all the lying and refusal to admit that is completely their fault, and not AJ's or Michael's or even Franco's.  I want them to pay for what they did to Michael, and Michael turning on them is the best way to do that. 

 

Lol, Sonny and Carly didn't raise Michael, though. Letitia and Jason did!

And Mercedes.

 

And aren't all three of them dead because of Sonny and/or Carly?  Or did either Letitia or Mercedes live?

 

Ron also wonders why do we not like Spencer. Because we don't like you, Ron.

 

Hey, now!  *I* like Spencer, but I am pretty sure that if I ever met Ron, I would despise him.  Although I do realize that my appreciation for Spencer is confounding to many of you.  :)

 

Soap characters serving laughably short prison terms for attempted murder - rather than actual murder - is easier to suspend disbelief over.

 

Especially when said character has totally confessed to the murder in court, in addition to admitting to almost everyone in town that he did it.  Even if Sonny is the "hero" in whatever the hell is going on with Luke, Helena, Julian, Johnny, Jerry, Larry, Faison, and the possibly 27 other characters involved in that story, there's no way it should get him out of prison.  Wait - oh my god - what if AJ is revealed to have been involved in the Most Convoluted and Boring Story ever?  And so Sonny's killing him was a good thing?  

[ulkis]

 Instead she runs rougshod over most characters, loses nothing and still gets many musical numbers to cry and moan over her wooden children.

 

I already mentioned this today but I just can't get over singing at Nathan's bedside while holding his hand. That crap is barely tolerable when you have Luke singing "My Way" by Lucky's bed when he's in a coma, when it's Obrecht and Nathan with a scratch and his shoulder, it's like, who the hell are you two again?

 

She seems to be doing her time on the backburner right now though so that's good at least.

 

Wait - oh my god - what if AJ is revealed to have been involved in the Most Convoluted and Boring Story ever?  And so Sonny's killing him was a good thing?

 

 

I think at most what will be done to get Sonny off the hook is someone else poisoned AJ's IV or something.

Edited January 21, 2015 by ulkis

[Harmony233]

Obviously the main characters won't stay in prision for long.However even Erica Kane had it worse in jail for stealing maddie than sonny has it.

[Turtle]

I think at most what will be done to get Sonny off the hook is someone else poisoned AJ's IV or something.​

 

God, I hope so.  I mean, I don't hope that someone else killed AJ, but I do hope that whatever do isn't any worse than that.  We all know they're going to something, because of course he's not going to stay in jail for too long, but I would probably accept something more like "As a thank you for you stopping something we didn't even know was going on, and something we still don't understand but was probably dangerous somehow, here's a pardon for you."  Still a total reach because Sonny is a known crime boss (ha ha ha ha!) and so would be unlikely to ever get pardoned no matter what he did, but at least that's easier to swallow than having Sonny not have killed AJ and undoing everything they've done with Michael, which I've really enjoyed.

[GHScorpiosRule]

That midgety moobster still shot AJ, meaning it was still attempted murder (assuming that fuckwit comes up with someone else killing AJ), and people still go to prison for that.

 

Then again, this is not real life, nor does this show follow logic, so Of COURSE! that piece of scummy shit, will be released.

[jsbt]

Either someone else will have done A.J. in, or A.J. will turn out to be clinging to life, or both. Those are my bets if they choose to go there, but so far nothing like that has surfaced and I'm not convinced it will. It did take Ron years to buckle and retcon the rapemance out of Todd's history on OLTL (though he had been working towards the Two Todds saga in small ways - they had been in negotiations with Howarth that same year but only got him years later, and he hinted at the idea in 2010 as well; when he is into an idea, he keeps it on the drawing board forever). Sonny doesn't have that same built-in option, but it's something they can easily pin on Fluke or Helena.

Edited January 21, 2015 by jsbt

[CPP83]

I know this is probably exactly what will happen but I would be so grateful if it didn't.  There were a couple of times (I think in conversations with Robin and at least one at AJ's grave at the Quartermaine crypt) where Jason acknowledged that stealing Michael from AJ was wrong and that Michael suffered for it.  Jason apologized to AJ's grave.  When he gets his memories back and Michael plays him the recording of AJ begging Sonny not to kill him, I hope that Jason affirms Michael's decision to cut out his parents.  Jason cut out his parents for significantly less.  Old Jason was all about respecting people's decisions and not telling them what to do; as much as I don't want old Jason back, I would be okay with this trait making a comeback in relation to Michael's decision.  

 

Since everyone expects Jason to bring Michael back to Sonny and Carly, maybe Ron will do the opposite and have Jason fuel Michael's hate.  It would be a nice twist.

 

 

 

It might be easier to believe that if Ron wasn't already having Jake buddy up to Carly and he knows crap all about her.

 

Ron already is licking his chops over the idea of writing his own version of the Carly and Jason "friendship for the ages". If he's already writing most of the characters telling Michael to just "get over it" already, I don't think he'll have Jason siding with Michael against Carly.

 

Honestly just thinking about the four of them taking over this show yet again is depressing to me. For nearly ten years it's been nothing but the Jason, Sonny, Carly, Michael show. All roads lead back to them and their lives and their choices.

 

That's what ticks me off so about AJ's death. They wanted to write it as if AJ's death was the only thing that could turn Michael away from his parents, but it was just crap.

 

Michael could have grown up and bought a clue.

 

He could have realized after watching Carly pick Franco over her kids and seeing Sonny hurt Morgan so thoughtlessly and coldly by sleeping with the woman he knew he had such strong feelings for that he might be better off backing away from them, like many adult children do when they finally open their eyes to the truth about their useless parents.

 

He really should have been making such a move after being released from prison. Michael should have turned his back on those two slaggards ages ago, long before AJ even came to town.

 

I just hate that AJ was the character sacrificed for this pointless storyline when nothing was going to change.

[Cattitude]

Oh I don't know guys from what I get about how they feel about AJ my bet is it will be revealed he smother HIMSELF with a pillow for being so obese.

[magnolia11]

Oh I don't know guys from what I get about how they feel about AJ my bet is it will be revealed he smother HIMSELF with a pillow for being so obese.

 

Or it will be revealed that he somehow choked to death on a ham sandwich.

[KerleyQ]

I just had the feeling that Dante saying he could see why a man would give into killing somebody is setting him up to be suspected of murder.

 

I just had a horrible thought - Johnny ends up dead and people think Dante did it.  Ron would absolutely do that shit. 

[jsbt]

I just had a horrible thought - Johnny ends up dead and people think Dante did it.  Ron would absolutely do that shit. 

 

Yep! Johnny turns on Fluke and bam, dead.

[CPP83]

Another day opening with Sam and Patrick in bed and me about to lose my lunch, fan bloody tastic.

 

And of course "Dad of the Year" Drake would pout over the idea that his little girl actually reached out to him and interrupted him from furthering his booty call with Sam. Can Dream!Robin just attack him with a scalpel already?

 

I had to write off today's show because there wasn't a single scene that didn't make my head hurt from all the stupid going on. 

 

Stupid dialog, stupid plots, and stupid characters.

 

It was nice seeing Lucas in a coat again, but seriously where the hell is Brad? Why can't they have one damn scene together??

 

Those goddamn dragon statues...I can't...I won't...

 

So Liz now feels a sort of connection with Carly over their "feelings" for Jake I suppose? Dear god...of course these two immediately can tell Jake is someone so very special and important and amazing while Sam, Jason's widow, sees him as a danger to society. Real original there Ronnie.

 

And the previews look...awful, just awful.

 

Sonny's in prison but of course his dumb ass would dare act as if he can do anything to notLuke and he'll try and threaten him.

 

Alexis asking Sam about her night with Patrick? Ew. Just ew. Ron's writing is so often classless and skeevy.

 

 

 

Oh I don't know guys from what I get about how they feel about AJ my bet is it will be revealed he smother HIMSELF with a pillow for being so obese.

 

 

 

It makes complete sense. How he could even stand seeing his ugly, fat mug for as long as he did is a miracle.

 

 

I just had a horrible thought - Johnny ends up dead and people think Dante did it.  Ron would absolutely do that shit.

 

 

 

Oh no...he would. He so very much would...dear lord...

[TeeVee329]

Sonny whining about Michael not listening to him...why do you think that is, asshole?  But I'm sure they'll be having a "I should have listened to you, Dad, I'm sorry" conversation sooner than later, blech.

 

Lucas and Liz as bantering work buddies, with those cute Dr. (Indiana) Jones jokes, totally worked for me.  Too bad Jake(son) had to ruin their fun.

 

Isn't it HILARIOUS how Shawn and Carly can joke about murdering people!

[Lillybee]

Does stupid Sonny really want Shawn to dig up Bill E. grave? What could go wrong?

[dubbel zout]

Instead she runs rougshod over most characters, loses nothing and still gets many musical numbers to cry and moan over her wooden children.

 

Obrecht's characterization is a mess, no question. I hate the singing, even though I think Kathleen Gati is fantastic. It's just so WTF for Obrecht. But I can't hate on her for being irritated that her GH staff isn't doing their jobs. People shouldn't be running off in the middle of their shifts. I think Ron is trying to make her less cartoonish more than redeemed, but I get why MMV. 

 

Or did either Letitia or Mercedes live?

 

One of the nannies was killed—strangled, I think—by...someone. I forget the exact circumstances, but it happened at Sonny's and I think Michael and/or Morgan were in the house at the same time. Or found the body. Or something like that. (Sorry this is a practically useless answer.)

Edited January 21, 2015 by dubbel zout

[TeeVee329]

Does stupid Sonny really want Shawn to dig up Bill E. grave? What could go wrong?

 

Maybe they'll find a note detailing his scheme, like the one Heather left for Franco.

Edited January 21, 2015 by TeeVee329

[backhometome]

Why do Sam/Patrick spend half their time talking about Jason. It was cute when Sam said Monica would try and keep Danny if she could.

 

If Michael changed his # then how did Sonny call him...

[CPP83]

If Michael changed his # then how did Sonny call him...

 

 

 

 

Oh I am sure Ron will claim that Michael didn't really change his number, he just blocked Carly's and then told her that to mess with her. 

[Fellaway]

So how did Sonny get Michael's new cell number?

 

Add a restraining order to Shawn's bumbling ineptitude at his job.  But, uh, he's actually going to honor the restraining order and not get into the house again?  Restraining orders too scary for ya, Shawn?

 

Elizabeth and Lucas should never try to make a hospital bed again.

 

Yes, Carly, you're right.  Sonny has no right to run your life, and it is ridiculous for him to try to keep things from you, including himself, in a misguided attempt to protect you in the name of his love for you.  It's patronizing, isn't it?  Sound familiar to you, Carly?  That irony and hypocrisy?  No?  Of course not.

 

Even if Fluke isn't Luke, I really hope he's not Bill Eckert.  That would be too dull, unsatisfying, predictable and anti-climactic.  I'll refuse to accept it, much like I still refuse to accept Ethan as Luke's son. 

[ch1]

I just hate that AJ was the character sacrificed for this pointless storyline when nothing was going to change.

 

Yeah, pretty much.  AJ shouldn't have to die for this story but since it happened what happened with Sonny/AJ and Sonny/Carly lying about it should be the straw that broke the camel's back.  He should be done with them because he would finally realize that Sonny and Carly bring mostly pain and misery to his life and parents or not, they aren't worth that.