Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Fylaki]

Carly gives every one a headache.

 

I think what I missing is the Carly who while a self absorbed twit always had a plan. Where is the Carly who hired Brook Lynn as a whore to destroy Dante, where is the Carly who talked Shawn in shooting Franco (well Olivia, well really a potted plant) and more important where is the Carly who dumped AJ in a laundry cart and wheeled him out of her apartment, and dosed him with booze?

 

I may not like Carly but hell at least she always had something up her sleeve. Ron writes her as self adsorbed, with none of the cunning and intelligence that made her a formidable person.

[magnolia11]

I'd just like even one person in town to be sympathetic to Michael and tell him that he or she is on his side and that he is completely justified in thinking both of his scumbag parents are pieces of shit for what they did.  And I'd like that person to be someone who actually knows Sonny and Carly -- Rosalie was sympathetic to him, sure, but she hasn't been in town long enough to understand what those bottom feeders are truly capable of.  (Monica should obviously be shown as that person, but we only see her about once a month if we're lucky).  Bobbie taking Carly's side in this is nauseating.

[KerleyQ]

I could understand why they didn't have Dante interfere too much in the initial Kaka/Michael/Morgan triangle  - it would upset the Cain/Abel thing Ron was going for - but there's no reason why they can't have him put in his two cents for two seconds now.

 

 

With the moobster in jail (and out of Michael's life), AJ dead, and no Jax in town, Dante is essentially the paternal figure for those two, I'd think.  I'd like to see him actually be that, because God knows he's been far more invested in what's best for either of them than their moobster father and beast of a mother have ever been.  

[ulkis]

Sorry, then when we will be able to have time for scenes of Obrecht and Nathan bonding, or Fluke talking to himself very loudly on the docks for minutes at a time?

[KerleyQ]

Sorry, then when we will be able to have time for scenes of Obrecht and Nathan bonding, or Fluke talking to himself very loudly on the docks for minutes at a time?

 

Or Spencer scenes. We can't cut those.  I'm surprised we haven't had a scene of Spencer berating Michael for being mean to Uncle Sonny yet. 

[TeeVee329]

And it's not like Laura Wright couldn't play Carly as destroyed, remorseful, devastated that she's lost Michael.  That moment in the jail when Michael called her Carly, you could see her soul crack. 

 

But that was it.

[dubbel zout]

I could understand why they didn't have Dante interfere too much in the initial Kaka/Michael/Morgan triangle  - it would upset the Cain/Abel thing Ron was going for - but there's no reason why they can't have him put in his two cents for two seconds now.

 

Dante's barely had even a passing line about what's happened, let alone any sort of discussion.

 

I was a little more alarmed by Ric's neediness.

 

That's not OOC, though. He's always been a little intense when it comes to relationships, and that's one reason they tend to blow up.

[OnceSane]

It's so fucking aggravating. Like Sonny deserves more forgiveness from Michael than Carly does. We need someone, anyone, just one person to go to Michael and let him know that he's 100% in the right if he never forgives Carly.

 

I'm glad Michael is finally back on today. But he better tell Bobby to shove it up her ass when she comes to him whining about how Carly needs him and shit. Don't waver, Michael!

  

I'd just like even one person in town to be sympathetic to Michael and tell him that he or she is on his side and that he is completely justified in thinking both of his scumbag parents are pieces of shit for what they did.  And I'd like that person to be someone who actually knows Sonny and Carly -- Rosalie was sympathetic to him, sure, but she hasn't been in town long enough to understand what those bottom feeders are truly capable of.  (Monica should obviously be shown as that person, but we only see her about once a month if we're lucky).  Bobbie taking Carly's side in this is nauseating.

Sam. Sam should be on Michael's side and tell him it's okay to feel how he feels. And she knows exactly how Sonny and Carly can be…especially Carly.

[Bishop]

Here is what may be a dumb question, and I know that characters are what characters are despite the writer  and that is one of the conceits of the genre, but is Carly a self-absorbed idiot or is that the way she is written by Ron because HE is a self-absorbed idiot. I just keep thinking that Guza's Carly (in any form not just LW) would have been crippled by what Michael said, maybe not for long but long enough that she would not have gone out on New Year's Eve and that should would have been planning some off the wall scheme to make him love her again (a fake kidnapping or herself or Joss, or even Him with her as the rescuer...something)

I agree with you.  Ron's version of Carly is just move the character along rather than actually have the character be impacted by Michael's actions.  So in answer to your question:  Carly is an idiot because Ron is writing her that way.  Under another writer, I think Carly WOULD be scheming and manipulating to get Michael back.  RC doesn't care about actual story.  He writes for the big reveal and then drops any dramatic fallouts that he could mine and simply moves on to the next story, which in this case is Fluke and the criminals in PC.

[Cattitude]

Carly gives every one a headache.

 

Word to THIS! I mean I like Franco and Nina, heck I even like Sonny and I cannot deal with Carly. She is just beyond the pale.

I realize everyone in town is somewhat of a hypocrite but Carly can't open her mouth without spouting something that is total BS.

And even Ava and Sonny are more remorseful of their actions than she is. sheesh!

[dubbel zout]

And even Ava and Sonny are more remorseful of their actions than she is. sheesh!

Ava is the only one who's genuinely remorseful. Sonny is sorry that Michael is mad at him, but only because that makes Sonny feel bad.

[TeeVee329]

Dear Barbara Jean,

 

You are a horrible grandmother.  You really haven't tried to seek Michael out once in the two-ish months since the wedding?  And when you do finally connect with him, you launch right into a defense of Carly?  Yes, bitch, he has to write off Carly.  She didn't forget his birthday, she helped cover for the man who murdered his father and she's not sorry.  And don't claim to be a paragon of truth and then start spinning lies.

 

In closing, please find the nearest football stadium and take all the seats.

 

Signed without love,

 

TeeVee329

[Lillybee]

What have they done to my Johnny?  I remember him as a guy who really didn't want to be a mobster. Why are they having him doing the former girlfriends tour?

[Cattitude]

Ava is the only one who's genuinely remorseful. Sonny is sorry that Michael is mad at him, but only because that makes Sonny feel bad.

 

Well I don't really believe Ava is any more remorseful than Sonny she's just sorry she has to go to prison and not raise her daughter, I've never heard her say she's sorry she murdered someone.

But I still think both are more remorseful than Carly.

[backhometome]

Id rather not see Barbara Jeans face if she is going to prop Carly till the cows come home.

 

I'm not a Julian fan but Carly calling any mobster slime is hilarious. 

[ulkis]

Lulu: I can't believe you were coerced! I can't believe I believed it. 

 

Yeah, no. Guess it's Lulu's turn to hold the dumb stick today.

 

And either ER delivered this line, either she got caught off or she made it sound like a question when it was just a statement

 

Lulu: I can't believe Padilla pressured you. I never trusted her

 

Well, I didn't quite get my montage but at least we got Johnny in the same room with Olivia, Carly, and Lulu

 

Dante: and to top it all off, he was with my mother too!

 

heh.

 

Poor, forgotten Logan. I'm pretty sure he, if not Dillon, was Lulu's first love.

 

Jackie Zeman looked slightly less scary today than in Monday's episode.

 

See, Dante expressing sympathy for Johnny's motivations over killing Anthony was why I always complained that him being on the "AJ is fat and evil" train never made any sense. He didn't have to like him but the intense antipathy made no sense.

 

Tracy asking who Ned slept with was a leeeetle weird, but I like Tracy in non Luke stuff so I'll take it.

 

Aw, Carlos saved his bro. Now go wash your hair. Maybe twice.

Edited January 7, 2015 by ulkis

[CPP83]

Well today happened and already I don't remember most of it.

 

So Julian decides that going to prison for a crime he didn't actually commit for once is better than merely putting a bullet in the skull of  man old enough to be collecting social security checks...nope, I won't. I just won't think about it, it's too stupid to waste any brain cells on.

 

Wally and Jane never miss a step in their scenes, I love seeing their close friendship even with such shitty writing.  The way Wally made Jane laugh so when asking "mother" for one of her snack crackers was too cute. They were all I had to smile about today, even though I did have to ignore pretty much 90% of their conversation.

 

Admittedly I didn't watch during the Johnny years much, and I never gave a good damn about his relationship with Lulu but cheese sauce on a cracker could they have Dante playing the insecure husband any more neurotically? Good grief. 

 

Chad really didn't...resonate to me in his scenes. Maybe he's still drained from playing hateful Michael, but he really just seemed like he was going through the motions today to me.

 

And so did Jackie for that matter, not that I blame her considering how they keep writing Bobbie so badly, but at least her face gives her a bit more of an excuse for not showing as many facial expressions, imo.

 

All things Luke and notLuke related may kindly go piss up a rope and then burn in hell.

[TeeVee329]

It's Bill. Finally!

 

Actually, I think Ron blinked and Fluke is no longer Bill Eckert.  The anvils were just too on-the-nose today.  And I don't think they brought up the long-lost sister for nothing.  It'll be her son or some such garbage. 

Edited January 7, 2015 by TeeVee329

[ulkis]

ugh, you're probably right

[MSquared]

Actually, I think Ron blinked and Fluke is no longer Bill Eckert.  The anvils were just too on-the-nose today.  And I don't think they brought up the long-lost sister for nothing.  It'll be her son or some such garbage. 

 

Old son, if that's who they're aiming for.

[Bringonthedrama]

It's odd seeing Johnny flirt with the current Lulu. Also very odd for her to apologize that she didn't visit him in prison. Why would she?!! I understand Dante being pissed that his wife was having a drink with Johnny. I would love for Dante to say to Johnny, "You've been in relationships with my mother and her cousin in the years since your break up. Lulu and I got married; now we have a son. So the flirting? Is gross, and completely inappropriate."  

[HeatLifer]

If Johnny is the catalyst to free Dante, I'm all for this ridiculous rewrite BS of Johnny/Lulu.

[movingtargetgal]

I had a HORRIFIC thought, what if Fluke is not Bill Eckert but is actually Luke and Bobbie's long lost transgender older sister Pat?  That plot twist would extend this Fluke/Luke storyline for at least three months.  This storyline needed to end at least 8 months ago and know I fear it will never end.

[ch1]

But I still think both are more remorseful than Carly.

 

 

That's because they are actually doing time.  That is what they are sorry for.  The actual crimes?   I don't think either is sorry. Neither really cares that AJ and Connie's lives are over because of them.

[ulkis]

It's odd seeing Johnny flirt with the current Lulu. Also very odd for her to apologize that she didn't visit him in prison. Why would she?!! I understand Dante being pissed that his wife was having a drink with Johnny. I would love for Dante to say to Johnny, "You've been in relationships with my mother and her cousin in the years since your break up. Lulu and I got married; now we have a son. So the flirting? Is gross, and completely inappropriate."  

 

I would have him put it more succinctly - if anyone tells him he's being too jealous, have him retort, have him shout to the room HE SLEPT WITH MY MOM AND MY WIFE!! ALMOST SLEPT WITH MY SISTER!!!

 

Even if Johnny were a perfect saint, I'm pretty sure in the dudebro code book (written by Morgan, of course) that's grounds for being skeeved out by someone for all time.

[jsbt]

If Ron actually did blink and change Fluke's ID from Eckert because the audience guessed it - which he will never admit to, BTW, he will claim he planned this from the start just like his old claim about the Eli Clarke story on OLTL (after the show was cancelled he admitted it was untrue) - it will be that much more of an epic clusterfuck.

 

That being said, I haven't seen today yet and I didn't think Monday's show was too much of a head-fake. I can usually sense when Ron is trying to fake me out, that just seemed like setup.

[ulkis]

I had a HORRIFIC thought, what if Fluke is not Bill Eckert but is actually Luke and Bobbie's long lost transgender older sister Pat?  That plot twist would extend this Fluke/Luke storyline for at least three months.  This storyline needed to end at least 8 months ago and know I fear it will never end.

 

Why do people keep putting this out in the universe? :(

[jsbt]

That's because they are actually doing time.  That is what they are sorry for.  The actual crimes?   I don't think either is sorry. Neither really cares that AJ and Connie's lives are over because of them.

 

I think Ava cared a little and I think MW played that remorse. But like Sonny, guilt would never stop her from doing it again for the sake of power. She also only cared at all long after the fact - she had no problem glibly retelling the tale to Carlos over drinks.

 

Why do people keep putting this out in the universe? :(

 

Because years ago, Ron wanted to make Ilene Kristen's Roxy character on OLTL - Rex Balsom's mother - turn out to be his biological father. ABC vetoed it.

Edited January 7, 2015 by jsbt

[ulkis]

Because years ago, Ron wanted to make Ilene Kristen's Roxy character on OLTL - Rex Balsom's mother - turn out to be his biological father. ABC vetoed it.

 

 

:blinks: wow.

[Bishop]

Ava is the only one who's genuinely remorseful. Sonny is sorry that Michael is mad at him, but only because that makes Sonny feel bad.

I don't think Ava is remorseful AT ALL.  She's only sorry she got caught and can't raise her baby.  I don't think she gives AJ or Connie a second thought or that they wll never get to enjoy a long and happy life.  I have zero sympathy for Ava.  

[jsbt]

It wasn't the worst idea in the world! This is, though. Ron shoved a lot of untold stories he never got to tell into the in-universe meta-soap on OLTL that everyone in town was watching - Roxy's favorite character who IK played in a dream turned out to be a man, Rex's son Shane (de-gayed by Brian Frons) went off to an art school taught by a prominent gay comic book artist, etc etc. I'm sure someday he'll trot some out on GH, like Unfrozen Teen Nympho Lulu. Maybe Lulu can dream about life on Cassadine Island with a "handsome" Cassadine cousin played by Dong Cheetwood, and I can projectile vomit.

[Fylaki]

Okay I know I am over thinking, because this is Ron writing after all and over thinking is never good with him, But what if Fluke is not Bill (or Pat or Tim or any Spencer) what if he is Harlan Barrett. If I recall Harlan actually LIKED Bill, (Despite Bill being the one to 'kill' him to save Robert)  and so that may explain his defending Bill to Bobbie so angrily.  The "dont go there" over the lost Sister Pat may be simply Harlan's way of moving from a topic he does not know about and the anger at Tim Spencer could be a hold over from his own abusive childhood. Harlan would also explain the Sonny hate, since he would hate Sonny for destroying Brenda's life time and time again, but it is an easily forgettable hate and so they move on. Harlan also had ties to Larry and Fasion as part of the cartel.

 

Again over thinking...because it's Ron, It's Bill

[jsbt]

Ron loves to stick to his Big Plans no matter the cost - that's the only reason we're still dealing with this at all. But he also can be petty if he's challenged or second-guessed by the audience, like when Robin gave an endless, kludgy monologue out of nowhere about Not Having PTSD around this time last year. Changing Fluke's identity at the last possible moment because he's incensed that everyone figured it out is something he would do. I think it's 50/50.

[CPP83]

I think it'd be nice to see for once if a husband/wife when confronting one of his/her wife/husband's exs just said "I trust my wife/husband picked me for a reason, do and say whatever you want, I'll see her/him later in bed tonight," and just walk away.

 

Would that be so hard, really? To see someone behaving like a secure and confident adult in their x amount of years relationship which led to marriage and offspring?

 

Carly's so slimy she leaves a trail like a snail whenever she exits a room yet Julian is a slime ball to her? Well it wasn't as if I needed any further reasons to like him more than I already do but hey, why not, there's always room for one more.

 

Carly not liking/and or hating you is a automatic seal of approval in 48 states*.

 

*Unless of course you're Franco the SERIAL KILLER and well in that case all I have to say is even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Edited January 7, 2015 by CPP83

[LeftPhalange]

Oh wow, some character that I've never seen has come back from the dead. I never saw this coming. This should be super exciting. 

 

Can someone explain to me like I'm Maxie why Julian is confessing to killing Anthony? 

[Bringonthedrama]

I would have him put it more succinctly - if anyone tells him he's being too jealous, have him retort, have him shout to the room HE SLEPT WITH MY MOM AND MY WIFE!! ALMOST SLEPT WITH MY SISTER!!!

 

Even if Johnny were a perfect saint, I'm pretty sure in the dudebro code book (written by Morgan, of course) that's grounds for being skeeved out by someone for all time.

I'd change that to: "HE'S BEEN WITH MY WIFE, MY MOM, MY WIFE'S COUSIN AND MY NOW LATE COUSIN KANNIE!! Just the passing thought of it makes me shudder!" 

 

The thing with Kristina was a ruse; when Kristina got anywhere close to being physical with Johnny in the penthouse, Olivia burst in, threw her out, and then crawled into Johnny's lap and was like "I make you forget all about that little girl, don't I." Blech. 

 

Yes, Dante should be skeeved out by Johnny. 

[ulkis]

I think it'd be nice to see for once if a husband/wife when confronting one of his/her wife/husband's exs just said "I trust my wife/husband picked me for a reason, do and say whatever you want, I'll see her/him later in bed tonight," and just walk away.

 

Would that be so hard, really? To see someone behaving like a secure and confident adult in their x amount of years relationship which led to marriage and offspring?

 

 

To be fair to him, Dante did do that the last time Johnny and Lulu were running the boat for months. After the initial bout of insecurity. but now we're back on square 1, because Ron loves that.

 

Actually, Dante should be more freaked out that he knows Johnny is a killer and he's hanging around outside of prison now. But then again he knows Sonny's a killer and was hanging out with him, so.

[dubbel zout]

OMIGOD. STFU, Bobbie. Go try to win Scott back if you're going to be such a gigantic idiot.

 

When did Olivia and Carly become friends again?

 

Well, I didn't quite get my montage but at least we got Johnny in the same room with Olivia, Carly, and Lulu

That was kind of awesome. 

 

I think it'd be nice to see for once if a husband/wife when confronting one of his/her wife/husband's exs just said "I trust my wife/husband picked me for a reason, do and say whatever you want, I'll see her/him later in bed tonight," and just walk away.

 

Seriously. Dante's full of crap. You either trust your SO or you don't, regardless of the other person's actions. 

[Lillybee]

Oh wow, some character that I've never seen has come back from the dead. I never saw this coming. This should be super exciting. 

 

Can someone explain to me like I'm Maxie why Julian is confessing to killing Anthony? 

 

 

I was going to ask the same question but changing Maxie to Sonny.

[Box305]

I feel so much dumber having watched that episode. /things I say every weekday

[CPP83]

I'd change that to: "HE'S BEEN WITH MY WIFE, MY MOM, MY WIFE'S COUSIN AND MY NOW LATE COUSIN KANNIE!! Just the passing thought of it makes me shudder!"

 

 

 

To me that's all just further proof Dante is not actually Sonny's kid. Sonny's kid would have been a Johnny type, playing literally by the rules of "keeping it in the family".

 

Hell, Dante hasn't even cheated yet on his first wife ffs but he's supposedly connected to that tainted Corinthos bloodline? Nope, it does not compute. He's really Mac's long lost son.

 

 

Actually, Dante should be more freaked out that he knows Johnny is a killer and he's hanging around outside of prison now. But then again he knows Sonny's a killer and was hanging out with him, so.

 

 

 

PC is a place devoid of any and all logic. 

 

Oh but of course Ron would regress Dante back into the jealous/insecure partner, it's all he's good at, regression, no forward progression and no growth otherwise he'd have to actually try and write something thoughtful and meaningful and not shitcrap.

Edited January 7, 2015 by CPP83

[Baxter]

Can someone tell me the last line Fluke said to Luke? I didn't quite catch it. 

 

Good God, I hope this whole Fluke story is about over. I've never been a big Luke fan. As I kid, I remember the Laura/Luke/Scotty triangle, the campus disco and the whole rape nonsense. Never understood why they show empowered a rapist as its hero and turned sweet Scotty into a jerk. Anyhoo...

 

And what have they done to my Johnny? At least BB seems to be having fun.

[magnolia11]

I feel so much dumber having watched that episode. /things I say every weekday

 

I was actually just contemplating to someone yesterday how I can feel a few brain cells slipping away every day that I watch this show.

[Francie]

Actually, I think Ron blinked and Fluke is no longer Bill Eckert.  The anvils were just too on-the-nose today.  And I don't think they brought up the long-lost sister for nothing.  It'll be her son or some such garbage. 

I think this is the deliberate "put down" of Bill being Fluke in an attempt to have viewers discount that it's Bill. The evidence will be incontrovertible that Fluke isn't Bill, until the end of January.  Then the incontrovertible evidence will suddenly be controverted, and Ron will pat himself on the back for some clever twist. However, the twist will neither be clever nor actually a twist.

 

The same thing happened with the Music Box storyline on OLTL back in 2004.  I know Ron wasn't the head writer then, but he was high up on the staff at that time and learned at that time how to write a mystery (sorta). In that storyline, it was painfully obvious that the killer was Matthew Ashford's character at the beginning.  Then, right toward the end, he was deliberately counted out as a possibility, on screen, and bread crumbs the size of bread loaves were laid in Daniel Colson's direction.  Then, there was the last minute swerve back into the lane and, voila, it was Ashford's character after all.

 

My theory, and I'm sticking to it until the bitter, bitter end.

 

Edited to add :

 

Thanks to jsbt for reminding me it wasn't Colson but Troy that they tried to misdirect everyone's attention to as the Music Box Killer.   

Edited January 7, 2015 by Francie

[ulkis]

It should come out that Lucky's been staying with Aunt Pat the past three years. That's who the rocks guided him to!

[Tiger]

Im really skurred that Fluke is Patricia. A transgender sister back decades later for revenge against her brother could be an interesting story in the hands of even moderately capable writers. But these hacks? NO!

And I still don't understand what personal vendetta either Bill or Patricia could have against Sonny. Was that part of the story dropped?

The Q den looks like shit now with the gray paint, new couch and whatever they did to the fireplace. I shudder to see what they did to the living room.

For all of Carey's faults, at least she actually works and makes her money legitimately.

@LeftPhalange & Lillybee: I believe the Port Charles logic is that if Julian is in prison, Fluke can't have him killed.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Tiger

[CPP83]

I was actually just contemplating to someone yesterday how I can feel a few brain cells slipping away every day that I watch this show.

 

 

I must give the makeup department props because they made it appear as if Luke stunk to high heaven like a dead skunk. Then I realized he was going to be in that basement until June and I wept to the Holy Virgin Margarita...

[jsbt]

Every single time an old partner returns on this show, the new partner is always jealous. It doesn't matter who it is or how long ago or what's happened since or who they are, it's a Ron formula he will never deviate from.

The same thing happened with the Music Box storyline on OLTL back in 2004.  I know Ron wasn't the head writer then, but he was high up on the staff at that time and learned at that time how to write a mystery (sorta). In that storyline, it was painfully obvious that the killer was Matthew Ashford's character at the beginning.  Then, right toward the end, he was deliberately counted out as a possibility, on screen, and bread crumbs the size of bread loaves were laid in Daniel Colson's direction.  Then, there was the last minute swerve back into the lane and, voila, it was Ashford's character after all.

 

My theory, and I'm sticking to it until the bitter, bitter end.

 

Ron was on staff, but the MBK story was all Michael Malone. I knew it was Haver from pretty early on too, but a lot of people didn't - they genuinely fooled some people with the Troy MacIver/Nora red herring, since Troy had killed a few(?) chicks the previous year. That story was also actually a really interesting, pretty gritty exploration of a serial killer's actual methodology and pathology for a few months, until they got into the dumb brainwashing shit with Jessica Buchanan and Haver becoming a mad bomber.

 

I still think Fluke is Eckert too, but I do fear Ron's knee-jerk impulse to spite us.

It should come out that Lucky's been staying with Aunt Pat the past three years. That's who the rocks guided him to!

 

I thought they had Laura reveal that was her when she came back last year - that she met him in Ireland.

[Lillybee]

I think that Julian going to prison is a way to get Julian and Sonny getting together to take down Fluke. That way they both can be heroes. Yuck.

 

Carly is all sunshine and roses today. Why can't she pay for anything, ever?

[loveigniting]

Every single time an old partner returns on this show, the new partner is always jealous. It doesn't matter who it is or how long ago or what's happened since or who they are, it's a Ron formula he will never deviate from.

 

I'd missed most the Dante/Lulu years and I got interested in them before the water crisis. They had this conversation talking out their issues and Dante apologized to Lulu for being insecure and he apologized to Johnny too. I loved that conversation so much because of its maturity. It was under Ron IIRC but, let's repeat it, y'all. Ugh.

Edited January 7, 2015 by loveigniting