S05.E01: Dark Swan

[Mari]

Not just you. I definitely had that thought. So who's going to be Aslan?

 

I'm truly, truly hoping no one.  

I adore the Chronicles of Narnia, and dread what would happen to it if this show got the rights  to it. 

 

Rumplestiltskin would somehow end up being Aslan, Regina would be all of the Pevensies combined, and the White family would somehow have created Jadis, who was just misunderstood and wanted an Ice Cone.

 

Then, I would cry.

 

One masterpiece they can't get their hands on...

 

Narnia, and Tolkien.  

(Not as protective of Tolkien as I am of Narnia, but . . .)

Edited September 29, 2015 by Mari

[coops]

The show would never get narnia as its still under copyright unlike fairy tales and oz which are public domain. Its highly unlikely the c.s lewis estate would ever sell its characters to Once... thank heavens! One masterpiece they can't get their hands on...

Edited September 29, 2015 by coops

[fictiongoddess]

I liked it better than the last several premieres, so there's that. I'm a Camelot fan, and I like the idea of !DarkSwan, and while I like Merida as a character well enough, it felt as though she was shoehorned in here. I would rather they had waited till 5B to introduce her. It's not like there is any shortage of characters needing attention (and meaningful dialogue) here.

I liked Hook's intensity in the quest to find Emma, but would have like more concern shown by her parents and Henry. The bits between Hook and Regina were good, but I wish Regina had dialed back the snark just a touch. I don't expect her to be as torn up about Emma being the Dark One as Hook is, but if she's supposed to be redeemed, she could show some compassion.

I liked Hook and Henry working together, and Hook trying every trick he can think of to achieve his goal. But could a knife that size sever a hand with one blow, especially when wielded by the dehanded person? Yeah, I know, I should just go with it. It's not the most preposterous thing we've seen.

I'm not generally a Zelena fan, but I liked the toned-down version here much better than anything previously. Jury's still out on further appearances, however.

Speaking of which, I'd like to see more responsible parenting shown. Henry's old enough to be useful, but a baby and a preschooler? Get a babysitter! And Belle should have stayed home.

Not thrilled about the time jump/memory wipe. I don't mind the time jump per se, as long as they do it well. Too bad it's only the standard 6 weeks again. I wish they didn't go to the amnesia well quite so often.

!DarkSwan (creepy version) at the end was fabulously chilling! More of that, please!

Overall, I'm hopeful because there is good potential here, but a bit resigned that it will not live up to it by the end.

[Camera One]

Henry's old enough to be useful, but a baby and a preschooler? Get a babysitter! 

 

Maybe the writers will need a few hostages along the way?  Seriously speaking, why would Snow, Charming and Robin think it was a good idea to take them portal jumping?  It's so ridiculous that it needed to be addressed on-screen rather than simply decided in Offscreenville.

[kingshearte]

The idea someone mentioned earlier, that, in case they can't get back, they'd want to have their kids with them, does make sense, but I agree that it really should have been addressed explicitly.

[Delphi]

They long past lost their shit at Narnia. Since Disney parted with Walden media right before Voyage of the Dawn Treder I don't think the estate would let Disney, and definitely Once get access to it.

[Rumsy4]

Snow and Charming weren't even covering the baby's eyes when all the broken glass was flying around inside the Diner. These kinds of oversights really take me out of the moment.

[Guest]

Maybe the writers will need a few hostages along the way?  Seriously speaking, why would Snow, Charming and Robin think it was a good idea to take them portal jumping?  It's so ridiculous that it needed to be addressed on-screen rather than simply decided in Offscreenville.

 

I did a double take at the baby going along.  But on the flip-side its was lose - lose so I hand wave it.  They had three choices.  What they did.  Leave the kids behind and all the parents go and have the possibility of getting stuck there and the kids orphaned.  Let one parental figure behind and let one stay.  I understand why they chose to take they kids.

 

The real issue is what it always is.  Once the writers decided the kids had to go for character reasons or future plot, the couldn't reign in their 'wouldn't it be cool' impulse to have realm jumping to be Wicked's green tornado taking Granny's diner ala Dorothy.  I believe there have been more gentle crossings.  If there haven't there is no reason their couldn't be.  I mean seriously, Granny demanded they secure the condiments because the writers thought it was a funny line.  I was thinking that someone should tie the kids to something secure.

[Shanna Marie]

I was thinking that someone should tie the kids to something secure.

If you know that the building you're in is about to go flying around, then it would probably be a good idea to sit on the ground, probably wedged up against something that isn't going to move. Depending on how the booths are constructed, I might have wedged myself up under a booth table, so I'd have something solid over me and would be surrounded on three sides, for less sliding around. These people were just kind of holding onto the counter.

[KAOS Agent]

 

How is this show about hope?  They spent an entire episode with Emma resisting the darkness and then ended it by revealing 6 weeks later, she succumbed.

 

Yeah, this episode just demonstrated what I was worried about with the Dark Emma arc. It starts to come off as torture porn. Emma sacrificed her happiness and that of those around her and now is being driven insane by the voices in her head. She's unable to escape the darkness even in sleep. She's involuntarily harming people even as she's desperately trying not to and ultimately driven to kill even while pretty much begging Merida to stop because the arrows, while not necessarily harmful to her, are triggering her anger and bringing out the darkness. And then we see that her struggles all came to naught. I'm not a fan.

[Shanna Marie]

Yeah, this episode just demonstrated what I was worried about with the Dark Emma arc. It starts to come off as torture porn.

I mentioned this on the ratings thread, but this was what one of my friends was worried about with this season, and she wasn't sure she was going to watch. She uses this show as a way to distract her from dreading Monday morning (she has an Evil Queen of a boss), and she didn't think she could take watching Emma basically be punished and tortured for having done something good. And it turns out her fears were correct.

[Dianthus]

OTOH, we've been told in interviews that things are not what they seem, so I'm withholding judgment on the Dark Swan thing for now.

I loved Hook and Henry as partners in crime. It reminds me of Spike and Dawn back in the day. I also liked that Hook had a plan for controlling Zelena (even if it was a retcon). He wasn't going to order Zelena to do anything wrong/hurt people. Seems to me Reggie just piggybacked on his plan by hijacking the twister. She wasn't exactly throwing out any better ideas.

[JohnSmithSensei]

And Emma gave about as fair a shake as she could to a complete stranger with the weird accent she could barely understand and was willing to kill to get what they want, all the while hefting around centuries of the darkest darkness. What's Merida's excuse? It's a double standard because Merida started the aggression first and her first instinct was to kill her. Emma the oh so bad Dark One's first instinct was to talk to her. It was only after Merida tried to kill her multiple times that Emma responded in kind.

 

Don't forget this show's hard and fast line about "heroes don't kill." But apparently that rule only applies to the Charmings clan and they're always expected to roll over and let everyone walk all over them. Everyone else can do whatever they want including killing or attempt to kill and they'll still be "heroes."

I fail to see how Merida started the aggression when she didn't draw her weapon until Emma dropped her using dark magic, and putted it away once she established that she was fighting a curse and not a witch. Then after Emma agrees to relinquish priority over the wisp to Merida and settled for just the possibility of a second crack at it, she talks to herself about reneging on their deal and even how she was lead to Merida specifically to betray her, at which point Merida was more than justified to distrust Emma and defend herself against her. Considering how Emma managed to easily dominate Merida and was in no danger whatsoever, she could've resolve the situation in any number of ways that didn't involve killing, much less outright supervillainy.

[Camera One]

I must admit that I too must be coming down with Darkness since I almost cheered Emma on to kill Merida.  

Edited September 29, 2015 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I forgot about the laugh when everyone and their pet horse showed up at Emma and Merida's heart snatching party at the end.  There weren't any "Emma!  Where are you Emma!" at all.  How did they get from where Granny landed to where Emma was?

[KingOfHearts]

 

I forgot about the laugh when everyone and their pet horse showed up at Emma and Merida's heart snatching party at the end.  There weren't any "Emma!  Where are you Emma!" at all.  How did they get from where Granny landed to where Emma was?

I was waiting for Granny's to land on Merida or Not!Rumple, LOL.

Edited September 29, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Free]

Oh, thank goodness.

 

I can't say I was super impressed with Merida, either, and thought it would just be me.  By myself. 

 

It just felt awkward, she was just listing off Brave references, tries to kill Emma, and then is just ok with it after seeing the darkness all in 1 episode.

 

Yay for Snow for telling everyone to cut the crap and go save her daughter! It was nice seeing her take charge without sounding "mightier than thou". Snow/Emma feels right there.

 

I wish we could see her proactive like she was during the FTL flashbacks instead of turning into more of a background fodder with Charming.

 

I know a lot of people don't like Zelena, but I can't help but sympathize with her.

 

It's more that she's stuck with a baby plot and possible redemption, especially since we're 5 seasons in and we've already went through that with Regina, Rumple, and to an extent Hook.

[Aliasscape]

I forgot about the laugh when everyone and their pet horse showed up at Emma and Merida's heart snatching party at the end.  There weren't any "Emma!  Where are you Emma!" at all.  How did they get from where Granny landed to where Emma was?

Yeah seriously. I guess since they had Emma's baby blanket they could have put a locator spell on it and followed it to her but then a floating blanket should have arrived just before Hook did.

 

I'm forever disappointed in the way Snow is written as a mother :( She doesn't have a motherly instinct in her body honestly. At least Charming is written as trying his hardest to give Emma space and respect whereas it's like most motherly stuff just doesn't even occur to Snow. The writers give that stuff to any other character they can, now including Regina.

 

I can't even get into thinking all that deeply about this stuff anymore. 5 years of this show and I'm trying to stop expecting anything to make sense. It's like I watch it to enjoy seeing actors having a fun time making a show even if I'm not really liking the end result of what that show actually is.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Aliasscape

[Camera One]

As someone still trying to like Snow, I was watching out for her scenes.  Now whose bright idea was it to have Snow say they can't risk it and immediately had her try to use the Dagger.  But then 5 minutes later, they had her ready to hand the Dagger over to Emma for keeps.  Presumably, they all discussed how to handle the Dagger offscreen?  Or not?  Practically all the actual emotional talky stuff with Emma was given to Hook, and they included a scene where Emma showed faith in Regina, while Snow got this crap and Charming stood there doing nothing.  The writers' interests are more clear than Merlin's Crystal Cave.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Snow immediately trying to use the dagger without any thought about giving Emma a chance to make a choice was really badly done. I mean, it fits with Snow's general lack of trust in Emma to make good choices (oh noes my fetus is evil!), but considering Snow's faith in Regina to be good for no real reason, it's particularly icky that she's all in on giving Regina chance after chance, but the immediate reaction with Emma is not to. She could have stopped Emma in a split second if she needed to, so not giving her the choice to fight the darkness was not cool. I did find it interesting that Regina's reaction to Dark Swan was to use the dagger too. Emma hadn't even made a specific threat to them, but it was an immediate jump to let's make Dark Emma do what I say (or kill her?). I was so happy to see Emma holding her own dagger.

[andromeda331]

I literally said "again?" at the same time Snow did. Its sad when even your characters are pointing out how repetitive the story is becoming.

 

 

So did I. I was so surprised that Snow said it and with distain too. Someone mentioned it a couple pages back

and I though the same thing throughout the episode that Emma would offer to help Meridia get her brothers

back. That way Meridia got her brothers and Emma could get the help she needed. Why not have her do that

instead? Emma could easily lose control of her dark powers when she's trying to help save three kidnapped

boys. No instead we have her almost killing Meridia. I loved Lancelot in Season too and he won my heart

again with the "Your next?" I kind of liked the poofing of the other guy, it was kind of funny. I did

like Snow at least once show wanting to find Emma. Its so rare to have her written that she cares about

Enmma. But why did they have to bring the babies with? Yes most of the main cast came with but why not

leave both with Aurora who should still be living in Storybrook, or Ashley/Cinderella. They could have

just said they left the boys with them. I loved Grumpy's lines about wanting to come with and not missing

the adventures. It sounded so like what the actor was probably thinking, I hope he gets used more along

with other dwarves and Granny. I also loved Emma's reaction Granny's diner being there. She kind of looked

like a little kid excitedthat Camelot has Granny's diner. Loved Sneeze declaring himself Sheriff. I know

they'll never show it but I'd love to see what the rest of the town does while the Charmings and everyone is

away. I know I should hate Zelena but I love her pointing out great Regina's life is, how Robin isn't so

great, and she's the only one smart enough to protect her heart. I liked Hook and Henry teaming up even

if it didn't work out. In a completely shallow note, I thought Emma looked really beautiful in Camelot.

I'm also really glad Rumple's in her head, I was really afraid it would be Regina.

[MedievalGirl]

I figured that Hook was making shit up to poke at Zelena's feelings about Cora and Regina. He didn't owe her the truth about how he got the heart stealing potion. Likewise, I didn't believe DarkOneRumple was completely straight with Emma about how the Wisps worked. He wanted her messed up. I'm not sure Merida knew how they worked either after the return to the stones and whisper part. 

I loved that they brought the kids on the trip. Moms can have adventures too! That's my fairy tale happiness. 

Standing stones.  Anyone think "Don't touch the stones you'll go back in time and really mess things up." Someone upthread asked about why the stones were among the trees and not out in the open like Stonehenge. Historically the stone circles were indeed set up on fields to get a clear view of the sky but they were made so long ago that a forest can grow up around them. The stones depicted in Brave were surrounded by trees. 

I wonder why the knights were in surcoats on their Excalibur quest and plate armor while looking for Emma and company. Loved Lancelot's "Your turn." I hope we get to see Snow, Charming talking with Lancelot about their family. 

By now I watched this three times with different members of my family. My oldest daughter objected to Merida being in blue instead of green. I suggest this might be because of green screen but that didn't make her happy. My toddler son jumped and said "Thats Merida!" He was so excited to recognize her.

I really liked this episode. Hook's devotion. Emma's disorientation. Zelena's craziness. Regina's lack of whining. Grumpy's dedication. They had a lot to do this episode so I get why some favorites were shortchanged but I liked the set up. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Dark Yawn
Get ready for every trope from every season premiere as Once Upon A Time sets out for Camelot.

[Mari]

Anyone think "Don't touch the stones you'll go back in time and really mess things up."

That didn't cross my mind, but would absolutely work for my favorite idea that won't happen--Hook being Baby Green, sent back in time and adopted by the Jones family. I would be glad to pretend to enjoy numerous Regina scenes, if that would make this happen.

[Shanna Marie]

I guess since they had Emma's baby blanket they could have put a locator spell on it and followed it to her but then a floating blanket should have arrived just before Hook did.

The portal spell was tied to the baby blanket, so they must have landed very close to where Emma was. I don't recall how far they walked to get back to Granny's, but they might have landed where they could see Emma. The locator spell was done with the portal in the first place, so they wouldn't have needed a second locator spell other than just looking around the immediate vicinity. They're just lucky they didn't land right on Emma -- maybe they were in the nearest clearing.

 

Wasn't Aurora living at Granny's? Did they give her a chance to get out, or did she get carried along? Though aren't the diner and the B&B somewhat separate?

[FierceAfroChick]

Finally watched the episode and everything I wanted to say has already been said here, but…I’m tired of Disney sticking their noses in this show.  Merida is pointless.  Pointless.

That didn't cross my mind, but would absolutely work for my favorite idea that won't happen--Hook being Baby Green, sent back in time and adopted by the Jones family. I would be glad to pretend to enjoy numerous Regina scenes, if that would make this happen.

 

I'm sorry...but just...ew...no to Hook being Robin Hood's son.  Then they'd have him kissing Regina's ass.

Edited September 29, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[regularlyleaded]

I’m tired of Disney sticking their noses in this show.  Merida is pointless.  Pointless.

To be fair to Disney, I don't think they're forcing A&E (Adam Horowitz. and Eddy Kitsis) to add Merida to this show or any other Disney princesses, for that matter. I don't think Disney discourages it, but I also don't think they have a Disney overlord dictating things to them when and which princess they must use. As far as last year's Frozen is concerned, A&E asked Disney for permission to use Anna and Elsa because Frozen was such a hot commodity, and in that case we know for a fact that there was Disney oversight as to how they used Frozen (the president of ABC said so in an interview). But other than that, there's no evidence to say that Disney is forcing them to add specific characters.

 

A&E, since season 1, have shown that they have a strong penchant of wanting to use the next shiny toy in the box that they can get their hands on (and have said just as much in interviews) and then throwing away that toy when they've lost interest in that toy. Merida just happens to be this season's shiny new toy that A&E decided to use. A&E like to use iconic Disney characters as gimmicks to lure viewers into the show, but generally fail to organically integrate the character into the show's story lines. As a result, the character ends up feeling shoehorned in and misused. I'm not going to blame Disney because these show runners have ADD and don't know when to say enough is enough when adding new characters to an already bloated character line-up. The expression "less is more" is completely lost on them.

Edited September 29, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[KingOfHearts]

I just realized why Rumple couldn't destroy Excalibur as he said in S3. It's because he can't destroy the Dagger.

[Mari]

 

I'm sorry...but just...ew...no to Hook being Robin Hood's son.  Then they'd have him kissing Regina's ass.

But he wouldn't have to, and it would add another twist to the family tree, as well as a layer to the animosity between them. He could start calling her evil stepmother. And, since some joke that Zelena is a Captain Swan shipper, his mother would already approve of his relationship.

Plus, we wouldn't have to watch scene after scene of baby custody drama/angst for poor, poor, poor Regina having to stepmother her sister's baby with Robin , while at the same time giving the writing team a reason they can't ignore to cover some of Hook's family background.

[FierceAfroChick]

But he wouldn't have to, and it would add another twist to the family tree, as well as a layer to the animosity between them. He could start calling her evil stepmother. And, since some joke that Zelena is a Captain Swan shipper, his mother would already approve of his relationship.

Plus, we wouldn't have to watch scene after scene of baby custody drama/angst for poor, poor, poor Regina having to stepmother her sister's baby with Robin , while at the same time giving the writing team a reason they can't ignore to cover some of Hook's family background.

 

Yeah, but this has got to be believable!  And there is no way Z and Robin made a child as fine as Hook. ;)

 

Plus I'm not a fan of Robin Hood, so just...no.  Not tryna kill your fun though, but here...lemme just pluck that out of the air before the writers get wind of it.

Edited September 29, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[YaddaYadda]

Plus I'm not a fan of Robin Hood, so just...no.  Not tryna kill your fun though, but here...lemme just pluck that out of the air before the writers get wind of it.

 

Mari is very resilient. I tried to kill her fun too. Didn't work out.

 

*sigh*

[Serena]

I'm with Mari. I think it would be hilarious. Plus, try re-imagining Zelena's "You must kissssssssssss!!" Captain Swan shipping scenes, except this time she's Hook's mother, desperately wanting grandchildren.

Also: Snow and Zelena must work together to plan the CS wedding! 

[Actionmage]

How is this show about hope?

 

As long as there are people who care about Emma, there are going to be tries to free her from The Darkness.  That is hope; they can free Emma. That their Emma wants to be herself and will help where and how she can. Just because Emma seems to have accepted The Darkness, it doesn't mean she has to stay accepting The Darkness. 

 

Regardless of how I personally feel about the character, the potential of Regina stepping up and helping the team even more than when they went to Neverland, is hopeful. Regina accepting that, despite herself, she feels more than just hate for these folks would be nice. Something less than hate, something more than disinterest. The ads keep braying/intimating that with Emma going dark that Regina is going to be the new Savior ( because The Binary Is All). That might be interesting to see. 

 

It's hard to see on-screen sometimes, but I believe the show is about Hope. I just think A& E's ideas on how to show it differ from a number of people's ideas.

 

To echo others on Neal and Roland: There are at least two other princesses with children around Snowflake's age, probably a bit older. Even if the group were to be ever lost in Camelot, there are two princesses who can help raise small boys until their folks return. It's not like they were getting left by the roadside. It turned out to be a moo point because everyone got the Return to Amnesia package on the cheap ( frequent flier miles and all that, dontcha know).

 

Maybe unseen Tiana's restaurant got a good upswing in business due to Granny's being in a different realm? *g*

[Mitch]

Good episode...I thought it was going to go back to S1 in terms of darker sense and an overall theme for the year. But the cartoon came back as soon as we see that Merlin easily trots over to our world and hangs out in movie theaters, and when they easily whipped up a tornado to take them back home and they used Granny's to do it...(wouldnt Reginas big house with bedrooms and showers and a nice couch to nap on make more sense???) When Rump wakes up is he ever going to feel stupid for taking years to come up with a dumb curse to jump realms when there are a million other ways to do it???)

 

Like Dark Emma, and the effects that will have on her love ones and the rest of the idiots in SB who rely on her, but could care less about Meridia , or thelir latest "OHHHH, we are in a different world now isnt this cool??" Regina rocked that red dress, and the best thing about this show are the funny lines(Zelena telling us that Robin is bad in the sack, Granny "Secure the condiments!" and Hook, "You can't be suprised that your family is troubled?" ) I am enjoying Zelena just being crazy, Regina being more nomal but still making bitch faces and spitting out insults, and yes, once again, Snow White and Charming are on this show...why?

[Mari]

Yeah, but this has got to be believable!  And there is no way Z and Robin made a child as fine as Hook. ;)

See, as crazy as Zelena is, and as bland as Robin is, they seem to be reasonably symmetrical and attractive.  I can see it physically happening.  Plus, Zelena-determined, passionate,  and dedicated.  So's Hook.  Robin--well, I guess he's usually sane and has a Y chromosome.  So does Hook.

 

He'd just have to get the rest of his personality and ideals from the Jones family.

 

Mari is very resilient. I tried to kill her fun too. Didn't work out.

 

*sigh*

Sort of like a cheerful fungus. (Or Cher and cockroaches, but since one is sort of scary and the other terrifies me, I'm going with fungus.) 

 

I'm currently twirling in my chair, mwhahaha-ing with malicious glee, and thinking about finding some nice confetti to fling.   Look below--someone agrees with me!  :)

 

I'm with Mari. I think it would be hilarious. Plus, try re-imagining Zelena's "You must kissssssssssss!!" Captain Swan shipping scenes, except this time she's Hook's mother, desperately wanting grandchildren.

Also: Snow and Zelena must work together to plan the CS wedding! 

Yes!  Exactly!

 

Then, imagine Regina's face when Hook makes requests or demands, calls her stepmother (with a stated or implied evil), and because of Robin's hopeful "I'm his father" face,  she has to grit her teeth and do it. 

 

Imagine having to figure out where everyone would sit at the wedding.  Imagine Henry, Nealflake, and Roland trying to explain the family tree to future friends/significant others. 

 

Plus, it would give Robin a legitimate reason to interact with a person that is not Roland or a female Mills family member.  It would give Hook someone(s) to interact with that are not Emma. 

 

 

To echo others on Neal and Roland: There are at least two other princesses with children around Snowflake's age, probably a bit older. Even if the group were to be ever lost in Camelot, there are two princesses who can help raise small boys until their folks return. It's not like they were getting left by the roadside.

This, actually, I can sort of understand, even though it would be smarter and better parenting to leave their son in relative safety.

 

Snow and David didn't get to raise Emma.  Emma ended up not only abandoned on the side of the road, she  floated around unwanted, and pregnant and was in teen prison by 17.  She spent her childhood and much of her young adulthood unloved.   When they met her, she was extraordinarily walled off, angry, and hurt.   Their relationship with her, after she found them, took a very long time to iron out, and there are still issues there.

 

It wasn't their fault.  It was Rumple and Regina's.  But, it still happened.  I can see them thinking it was better to face this as a family, no matter the danger, than risk being on different sides of a portal that might never open again, even if there are people there that would take care of the kids.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Mari

[YaddaYadda]

See, as crazy as Zelena is, and as bland as Robin is, they seem to be reasonably symmetrical and attractive.  I can see it physically happening.  Plus, Zelena-determined, passionate,  and dedicated.  So's Hook.  Robin--well, I guess he's usually sane and has a Y chromosome.  So does Hook.

He'd just have to get the rest of his personality and ideals from the Jones family.

 

Yeah, no. Just no.

[MedievalGirl]

I forgot to add - copter shots of guys on horseback with cloaks a flying will never get old. 

[Rumsy4]

I can see them thinking it was better to face this as a family, no matter the danger, than risk being on different sides of a portal that might never open again, even if there are people there that would take care of the kids.

 

I agree that it would have been hard for Snow to leave her baby behind. But with how easy crossing-realms is, I find it hard to take the threat of a permanent separation seriously. But, that's the show!

 

Belle seemed fine going to Camelot just carrying her rose in a bell-jar, though I'm not sure how she planned to return immediately to Storybrooke if the rose started withering. I really think Belle should have stayed behind. There are too many characters simply used as props. It's a shame, really. 

[HoodlumSheep]

That didn't cross my mind, but would absolutely work for my favorite idea that won't happen--Hook being Baby Green, sent back in time and adopted by the Jones family.

If Hook turns out to be the kid of anyone who got sent back in time, I think him being the kid of Ariel and Eric would make more sense. I think that was actually one of the short-lived rumors that popped up when Ariel was first announced. Either there would be something between hook and Ariel, or he was Ariel and Eric's kid that got caught up in time shenanigans similar to Emma. I feel like Ariel being Hook's mom would be a blast.

But I suppose this is kinda off topic, so I'll try roping it back in. I don't think that stonehenge is going to be used for time travel shenanigans, but I could see it coming back into play for something.

Still trying to think of way the heart potion could not be a retcon. Either he lied about who he got it from (which I see no reason why he'd need to), or Regina gave him a some for back up while they were having those drinks she mentioned (but why she'd have to emphasize he only had one chance would then have to be retconned), or maybe the enchanted Hook failed and then Cora gave him the vial to use in the EF if need be and it turns out Hook just has a terrible memory when it comes to people. Or you know, A&E can't remember half of what they write and just retconned it.

Here Hook finally mentioned to Zelena that he had a connection to Cora, and it was only in a passing comment pretty much. I've been waiting for it, and I'm a bit disappointed. I kind of want him to rub it in Zelena's face that he and Cora were evil traveling buddies. Heck he had a better relationship with Cora than Zelena and Regina (kind of). I've expected him to get in more digs about than he has.

Edited September 29, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

Taking the Hook/Zelena speculation to the Speculation thread.

[kili]

I kind of want him to rub it in Zelena's face that he and Cora were evil traveling buddies. Heck he had a better relationship with Cora than Zelena and Regina (kind of). I've expected him to get in more digs about than he has.

 

Why would he poke the crazy bear? Sure, Zelena cursed his lips and left a time portal trap for him to fall into, but it broke the ice with Emma.  So, if you squint, she helped him out. Plus, she totally ships him with Emma.

 

Hook needed Zelena to do something. Taunting her isn't going to make her any more helpful.

 

It's interesting that Zelena had Hook at her mercy after she got her magic back and she did nothing to him. I think those two could be friends. Since we lost Ursula and Cruella, I think Zelena and Hook could be our new Greek chorus.

 

I'm kind of on a Zelena band wagon right now because she keeps saying things I'm thinking (like ragging on Robin for not recognizing Zelena was playing the part of Mariane. I loved her just doing yoga in her cell. She's kind of chilling).

[Camera One]

The portal spell was tied to the baby blanket, so they must have landed very close to where Emma was. I don't recall how far they walked to get back to Granny's, but they might have landed where they could see Emma. 

 

If they landed where they could see Emma, presumably Emma and Merida would have been able to see or at least hear a restaurant come crashing down.

[HoodlumSheep]

It's interesting that Zelena had Hook at her mercy after she got her magic back and she did nothing to him. I think those two could be friends. Since we lost Ursula and Cruella, I think Zelena and Hook could be our new Greek chorus..

Hook and Zelena could be a fun duo. Although this whole issue with Robin still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But then again we're supposed to ignore what Regina did to Graham...I do think it'd be fun to see them team up and "sass" back at Regina.

I was surprised she didn't attack Hook too. She didn't want to waste any time apparently (she wouldn't want to harm half of her otp :p). I was expecting her to lock Hook and henry in that cell after Henry walked into the room. She didn't do that either.

But yeah, Zelena earned a few (just a few) points back this episode.

[KingOfHearts]

 

But yeah, Zelena earned a few (just a few) points back this episode.

Eh, if Zelena can act like she did in this episode from now on, I could maybe overlook the Zarian debacle. It's just what had to happen to get here, unfortunately.

Edited September 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

If they landed where they could see Emma, presumably Emma and Merida would have been able to see or at least hear a restaurant come crashing down.

They were preoccupied with the heart crushing? Or there's some kind of magical field around the stones, so people on the outside can see and hear what's going on inside, but people inside are cut off from the world? Or the restaurant materialized gently? Or the writers didn't think about that?

 

I was surprised she didn't attack Hook too. She didn't want to waste any time apparently

She's focused on her goal and figured her chances of getting away from there were better if she didn't actually kill anyone on the way, maybe. I don't think she's ever been shown to indulge in casual cruelty that didn't apply to her goal (unlike her sister). Yeah, if she needs to use someone to get what she wants, she will, but she doesn't really go in for random acts of cruelty just for grins, regardless of how crazy she seems.

 

I was rather impressed that they bothered showing just how stunned Hook was. Usually on TV (and on this show), people get bounced off walls with no ill effects, but he really did look dazed for a while. You could practically see the cartoon stars and little bluebirds circling his head. So he didn't appear to be enough of a threat that he might be able to stop her, and she left him alone.

 

I wonder if Hook actually knows what a Wookie is. I was going to say that there hasn't been time for him to see Star Wars after the return from the AU, but then I remembered that it was AU Hook who had no idea. Maybe they managed at least one Netflix night between 4A and 4B, so Hook actually understands Henry and Emma's references.

[Camera One]

They were preoccupied with the heart crushing? Or there's some kind of magical field around the stones, so people on the outside can see and hear what's going on inside, but people inside are cut off from the world? Or the restaurant materialized gently? Or the writers didn't think about that?

 

 

The writers wanted the "surprise" of everyone from Storybrooke suddenly showing up, regardless of whether it made any sense or not. 

 

 

 

She's focused on her goal and figured her chances of getting away from there were better if she didn't actually kill anyone on the way, maybe. I don't think she's ever been shown to indulge in casual cruelty that didn't apply to her goal (unlike her sister). Yeah, if she needs to use someone to get what she wants, she will, but she doesn't really go in for random acts of cruelty just for grins, regardless of how crazy she seems.

 

Zelena didn't need to kill Marian to impersonate her.  She had full control of her magic.  She would have had multiple other ways to imprison Marian or to send her far away.

 

Once again, if Zelena didn't feel the need to gloat, she could have been in Oz right now.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Camera One

[dr pepper]

In the episode that first introduced the Cru/Mal/Urs trio, Rumple had just stolen something from Camelot. At the time i was hoping that Rumple would end up going against Morgan le Fay. He didn't, but at least (given that this is the disneyfied view of the source material) we didn't get Madam Mim.

This episode, when Emma announced her intention to find Merlin, i thought maybe she would be the one to meet Morgan. Or maybe to be her. But after that last scene, i'm just afraid that she has become Nimue.

[KingOfHearts]

 

He didn't, but at least (given that this is the disneyfied view of the source material) we didn't get Madam Mim.

Yet...

 

Merida seemed like she was just there to give the episode some sort of story on its own. It had some serious Team Princess and QoD/Snowing vibes with the trust issues, though.

Edited September 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Technically, Emma could have bonded with Merida.  They both were not ready for the position thrust upon them.  Emma too would have had royal obligations just because she was the child of Snow and Charming.  But the "bonding" that happened in this episode occurred way too fast to be believable.  It needed a few more episodes... what exactly was the rush?  Do A&E seriously expect victims of violence to be so instantly forgiving?  You just tried to kill me, no biggie!  I'm even GLAD you tried to kill me since it taught me a valuable lesson.  Give me a break!

 

So did Merida use the Wisp at the end there?  

[kili]

Zelena didn't need to kill Marian to impersonate her.  She had full control of her magic.  She would have had multiple other ways to imprison Marian or to send her far away.

If Zelena did not kill Mariane, she might get tipsy some night and ride her horse into one of the dwarfs and then there would be only six of them.

 

Where is Zelena going to stash Zelena for several years (while she is not there to guard her) that Marian won't escape and ruin the entire game? (Marian did  just manage to get away from Regina). Once Zelena decided to impersonate Marian, killing Marian wasn't about being needlessly cruel, it was being psychotically pragmatic. 

 

For an evil person, Zelena can be surprisingly non-evil. She doesn't randomly kill people and while her anger with Regina is misplaced, she doesn't tend to take that anger out on others. The only person Zelena killed is Marian and A&E could always just say that she poofed Marian into bug or mouse form (in Season 8 when they need Marian back to ruin the Hood/Regina wedding. When they get to the "Speak now or forever hold your peace", Marian will pop out from behind a pillar and say "Robin is already married.....to me!" (dun! dun!). Snow will faint in shock). 

 

If Regina or Rumple  in their hey-days had just escaped from prison, there would have been some death and destruction, but Zelena harms nobody and just tries to escape from Storybook (one of the sanest things she's done and more people should look into it).  She did not rage in her cell, but found away to patiently bide her time.

 

Zelena just needs somebody to love her and I think she'd become a pussy cat. Well, until she got jealous again.