Indian Summers - General Discussion

[LiveenLetLive]

On 10/10/2016 at 3:00 PM, skyways said:

Why are you guys bothering yourselves?? There are ways and means to watch them. I watched Masterpiece Poldark on same 'ways and means' so I pretended it was my own Sunday line-up.

me too, I use "ways and means" to watch Poldark (and Antiques Roadshow also on Sunday) as well, it is best not to be too specific with the "ways" I gather, LOL.

[Brattinella]

:(

[pasdetrois]

I like this series too, especially some of the actors. And the scenery and clothing are beautiful. I do find the sudden presence of Rachel Griffiths on our screens a bit odd, although she's giving it her best.

This gang reminds me a bit of the Happy Valley crowd, another group of jaded, wealthy Brits fornicating and murdering in 1940s Kenya. One of the movie channels has been showing White Mischief lately.

The use of the little boy as tiger bait didn't shock me because my brain has absorbed how cruel many colonists were.

I marveled at the maharaja's thick collar of diamonds at the disastrous dinner party.

[skyways]

Quote

it is best not to be too specific with the "ways" I gather, LOL.

Precisely! But I think I'm allowed to share if asked discreetly, in code or pigeon courier.

[dcalley]

20 hours ago, izabella said:

Is that what she was doing?!  I thought she was putting that vinegar lotion on his burns.

I was trying (and failing) to figure out if she had put more or less vinegar in the cream than last time. Usually PBS's cuts are unwelcome, but this time....

[taanja]

20 hours ago, candall said:

Wow.  I am SO on a different wavelength.  This is my favorite show.  I saved up three episodes so I would have a feast instead of a small weekly portion.  And when the US election got me down so far I couldn't stand it, I left it all behind and went away to India.

The first of the three episodes was solid story-building, the next episode had the bomb, and the last episode was non-stop:  bam! bam! bam!  I can't tell you how disappointed I am to be denied the last seasons--I still can't tell whether the stories will be truncated or left incomplete.

 

 

I thought Madeleine's reaction was perfect.  She's been living so long with the general insignificance of women, combined with her marital position of "Afterthought."  Suddenly her husband's career, their entire future, the path down which the whole damn country will ultimately go--have all come down to her being deemed highly desirable and coveted by a powerful man with a reputation for being sexually insatiable.  The choice to sacrifice, or not, is up to her.  That's some very heady wine!

I thought it was a remarkable, brutal, moment when the prince whispered to her that her husband would not ever forgive her, and she was wrong to believe he would.

(Of course Ralph is going to destroy her when he reveals she was merely a substitute for Alice.)

 

 

I think this show is just brilliant at moving the viewers' sympathies back and forth, up, down and sideways.  I know I used to yearn to see Ralph strung up by his thumbs--and then I couldn't really remember why.  Oh, right, thanks, Aafrin--the assassination attempt, the forged documentation and Mr. Sood.

I once would have said seeing Ralph wallop Mrs. Coffin across the jaw would be highly satisfying, but no.  She's so tragically pathetic when she assures Ralph, with pride, that for his father, "honor was everything."

I used to be 100% pro-Sooni, fighting the crushing misogynist social mores so hard, and I still have to stand by her on principle, but now I think she rarely opens her mouth that foolishness doesn't fall out.

 

 

I'll tell you one overlap that occurred to me between current events and most of the stories we're seeing unfold in Indian Summers--this quote from "A Thousand Splendid Suns":

Like a compass needle that points north, a man's accusing finger always finds a woman.

OMG! I am going to quote this whole thing because yes! yes! yes!

I watched again last night and when Ralph tells Madeline about the maharaja's proposition at first she is like-- oooh how modern-- oooh what cheek !! She actually smiles and seems kind of flattered.

but then at dinner she seems to change her mind and says she has a headache. It's when the maharaja reminds her that Ralph won't forgive her that she changes her mind again. She knows-- she has always known that Ralph doesn't love her. Or he isn't IN love with her.

And I had forgotten that little detail that the maharaja really wanted Alice and Ralph knew and had Alice go away for the night. I wish the show had played up more on their weird relationship.

[skyways]

What a horrible, disturbing, annoying episode. Did Alice really, I mean REALLY want to leave? She didn't try hard enough. And then Ian........................in fact I will stop here.

[taanja]

1 hour ago, skyways said:

What a horrible, disturbing, annoying episode. Did Alice really, I mean REALLY want to leave? She didn't try hard enough. And then Ian........................in fact I will stop here.

Alice always looks like she's hopped up on opium-- last night's ep most especially. Her eyes were even doing the drooping thing.  maybe that awful husband of hers is slipping some laudanum into her tea? because yeah. She's was stupid. Madeline even commented on seeing a wad of cash in her purse! seriously!  Like a child she thinks no one can see it?

The ending was painful because I want Alice to kill her husband. But it looks more and more as if he's going for the -- see? my wife is crazy! angle and have her locked up in an insane asylum.

Poor Ian. 

[Brattinella]

I wish I hadn't started watching this terrible show.  Every episode, I have such high hopes, and it is always disappointing and enraging.  Someone needs to take care of Charlie, throw him off that cliff (!) on the edge of the lawn!

[magdalene]

Alice is not too bright, is she?  Her great escape was so badly planned and executed.  Somebody has got to kill her awful husband before the series ends. For this to be on any level satisfying drama he  has got to die.

Ralph and Madeline plumbed such depths and the slippery Maharaja screwed them over. Ouch!

I felt sad for Ian and he started drinking again. Also ouch!

[LiveenLetLive]

I loathe Alice, and yes, I wanted her to kill that creepy son of a bitch husband. I have a question, would Aafrin and Alice be accepted as a couple in Australia? Consider that the actress Merle Oberon hid her mixed parentage (white Brit father, Indian mother) around the same time period, I would assume that racism would be evident in Australia just as much as anywhere else. At any rate, I binged watched the last 2 episodes on YT, LOL. I will say no more...

[Brattinella]

Charlie IS the name of Alice's husband, right??

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, LiveenLetLive said:

I have a question, would Aafrin and Alice be accepted as a couple in Australia?

Under the White Australia Policy, Aafrin probably wouldn't have been permitted to immigrate to Australia.

[LiveenLetLive]

49 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Under the White Australia Policy, Aafrin probably wouldn't have been permitted to immigrate to Australia.

Thanks. The show just sort of skipped over the whole racial difference issue between them and Australia is posed as a sort of dream world where they could be a family. I hope that we can all have a chat about how the series ended up--it was sort of a messy pot boiler but not without its pleasures.

[Constantinople]

13 hours ago, magdalene said:

Alice is not too bright, is she?  Her great escape was so badly planned and executed.

Like her decision to marry Charlie.  It seems she hasn't learned much.

By the way, I'm not sure how old the actors are, but Season 2 Matthew Raworth seems significantly more than 3 years older than Season 1 Matthew Raworth.

[taanja]

3 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Like her decision to marry Charlie.  It seems she hasn't learned much.

By the way, I'm not sure how old the actors are, but Season 2 Matthew Raworth seems significantly more than 3 years older than Season 1 Matthew Raworth.

I thought the same thing about the two actors who played Adam. His SORAS was amazing.

I have no clue what Alice's husbands name is??? He just hurts me. There is something about the character that is very off-putting to me.

Oh? So Ian started drinking again? I wasn't sure if that's what was happening in that little hovel w he went to.

[dcalley]

I was just reading a two-year-old discussion with Secretary Clinton about books, and she mentioned A Suitable Boy by Vikram Seth, which Wikipedia describes below.

Quote

A Suitable Boy is set in a newly post-independence, post-partition India. The novel follows the story of four families over a period of 18 months, and centres on Mrs. Rupa Mehra's efforts to arrange the marriage of her younger daughter, Lata, to a "suitable boy". Lata is a 19-year-old university student who refuses to be influenced by her domineering mother or opinionated brother, Arun. Her story revolves around the choice she is forced to make between her suitors Kabir, Haresh, and Amit.

I thought some here might be interested. Be warned, it's really long.

Edited November 13, 2016 by dcalley

[magdalene]

I guess Aafrin can count himself lucky that they didn't hang him.  Woohoo! (Sarcasm)

This show is so depressing.

Is next Sunday the series finale?

[Constantinople]

To no one's surprise Ralph wasn't named the next Viceroy.  Even the next Viceroy's advisor is a Knight and Ralph's wasn't even that, much less a peer.

I wonder if Sir Cecil Thompson would have been nuRalph in Season 3 if there had been a Season 3.

I think Ralph may have a point that you may not be the best boyfriend material if you watch someone shoot your girlfriend in the head and do nothing.

Sgt Singh certainly is dedicated.

[Brattinella]

53 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Sgt Singh certainly is dedicated.

Truly.

[izabella]

I feel like I have no idea what happened in this episode.  Why was Aafrin released from prison?  Did Charlie make that happen after Alice asked him to as a favor to her?  And did she offer to be his affection giving puppy that he could do anything to?  And she offered that because he was going to put her in a mental asylum otherwise to avoid the scandal of her and Aafrin?   What the hell is wrong with Alice and Charlie?  Who is Charlie?  Why is he so fucked up and why does everyone let him be as fucked up as he chooses?  Is Ralph such a weenie around Charlie because of his debt? 

What was Charlie doing with the woman from Ian's plantation?  And what information about Aafrin was she testifying to?

What is Sooni doing with her suitors?  She turned down Ian, she said yes to Mr. Mustache, but her parents are getting guidance on the most auspicious wedding date for her marriage to Eyebrow guy.  Why is Sooni going along with choosing a wedding date to Eyebrow? Did she change her mind about Mr. Mustache?

I'm so confused, and I hate so many of these people. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by izabella

[Brattinella]

34 minutes ago, izabella said:

Why is he so fucked up and why does everyone let him be as fucked up as he chooses?

THIS.  Is everyone afraid of Charlie?  If so, why??

[Deanie87]

10 hours ago, izabella said:

I feel like I have no idea what happened in this episode.  Why was Aafrin released from prison?  Did Charlie make that happen after Alice asked him to as a favor to her?  And did she offer to be his affection giving puppy that he could do anything to?  And she offered that because he was going to put her in a mental asylum otherwise to avoid the scandal of her and Aafrin?   What the hell is wrong with Alice and Charlie?  Who is Charlie?  Why is he so fucked up and why does everyone let him be as fucked up as he chooses?  Is Ralph such a weenie around Charlie because of his debt? 

What was Charlie doing with the woman from Ian's plantation?  And what information about Aafrin was she testifying to?

What is Sooni doing with her suitors?  She turned down Ian, she said yes to Mr. Mustache, but her parents are getting guidance on the most auspicious wedding date for her marriage to Eyebrow guy.  Why is Sooni going along with choosing a wedding date to Eyebrow? Did she change her mind about Mr. Mustache?

I'm so confused, and I hate so many of these people. 

That is exactly how I feel.  I never understand what is going on from one episode to the next.

Also, HOW HARD IS IT TO KILL CHARLIE?????  My god, push him down the steps, feed him to a tiger, poison his drink, plant a bomb in his bed and blame it on the terrorists!  More than one person on this show is a killer or at least an accomplice, why not do the world a favor and kill someone who deserves it?!  Are you telling me that whats her name in the fantastic blue turban can't mix a bit of rat poison in his sidecar?  Good lord.

Also, what the hell with Ralph and Alice (just got the significance of their names, by the way)?  I feel like the writers have sort of been hinting at some sort of unsavory relationship between them, but now he is just ready to turn into Charlie the Second and order her around.  Not that she seems to be capable of more than wearing flouncy dresses and blinking away non-existent tears that actress can't quite produce.  Ralph used to be interesting and complex, but he is dead to me too now.

The only thing I'm rooting for now is for the Scottish Outlander to get gay-married to Aafrin's father because they are just about the only two that I can stomach on the show anymore, and even Aafrin's dad is pushing it LOL!

Edited November 15, 2016 by Deanie87

[dcalley]

I think Aafrin was spotted at the tea plantation with the guy who was on the run because of reasons I have forgotten. Sorry.

[skyways]

Good luck to all of you as you try to understand! I'm off to Corfu!!! But before I go I just want to say that the guy who plays Aafrin could not and did not hold his own in that confrontation scene with all four of them. His weak acting was jarring and nearly ruined that scene. And not only that, why did the writers make him sound so stupid after he was released from prison and gone straight to Alice? Did he think that she would just be standing there on her own ready to go away again? The whole thing was too stupid to be believed. Anyway Ciao all. I can't even seek my 'ways and means' to find out the rest.

[nara]

6 hours ago, dcalley said:

I think Aafrin was spotted at the tea plantation with the guy who was on the run because of reasons I have forgotten. Sorry.

Aafrin and his revolutionary girlfriend (Kaira--I think) were working with Naresh Banerjee, also a revolutionary--but a violent one, who was hiding out at the tea plantation.  However, neither Aafrin nor Kaira supported Banerjee's violent approach to kicking the Brits out of India.  However, because they went to visit him at the plantation, there were at least a few people who could identify Aafrin.

[Brattinella]

On 11/15/2016 at 8:51 AM, Deanie87 said:

Also, HOW HARD IS IT TO KILL CHARLIE?????  My god, push him down the steps, feed him to a tiger, poison his drink, plant a bomb in his bed and blame it on the terrorists!  More than one person on this show is a killer or at least an accomplice, why not do the world a favor and kill someone who deserves it?!  Are you telling me that whats her name in the fantastic blue turban can't mix a bit of rat poison in his sidecar?  Good lord.

THIS, in spades.  Why do they let him behave so abominably?

[TVForever]

18 hours ago, Brattinella said:

THIS, in spades.  Why do they let him behave so abominably?

I think it's money. Charley obviously has a lot, and as we saw about 2 episodes back, he has been giving Ralph money directly, as well as shielding him from his bank debts. Ralph and Alice seemed to be of that class that had "position" but not money. Charley has money and the power that comes from having it. Its why everyone puts up with his foolishness while rolling their eyes.

[mojito]

Yup, it's money.

Oh Aafrin, surely you can figure out that Alice has spared you from the noose! Why else would she tell you to scat?

@Deanie87, when I saw you put the names Ralph and Alice together, I had a flashback before you mentioned the significance. You don't even have to be old enough to have watched the show, the names are a TV classic, like Ward and June.

I'm losing interest in this show. It feels as though the writers of this show and Poldark are writing down to an American audience now. The plots are getting juvenile, predictable, and stagnant. Too bad. 

[GinnyMars]

11 hours ago, mojito said:

@Deanie87, when I saw you put the names Ralph and Alice together, I had a flashback before you mentioned the significance. You don't even have to be old enough to have watched the show, the names are a TV classic, like Ward and June.

I don't get the reference, can someone explain?

On 15/11/2016 at 3:51 PM, Deanie87 said:

Also, HOW HARD IS IT TO KILL CHARLIE?????  My god, push him down the steps, feed him to a tiger, poison his drink, plant a bomb in his bed and blame it on the terrorists!

I have a feeling we're gonna see the pill Singh gave Aafrin again...

On 15/11/2016 at 5:07 AM, izabella said:

Who is Charlie?  Why is he so fucked up and why does everyone let him be as fucked up as he chooses?

I'm not loving the fact that they're apparently linking "fucked up" and gay. Since he went "No, no, no, no -- you know I don't... you know I don't like all that." when Alice tried to straddle him...

And I thought this part of the dialogue was absolutely chilling:

Quote

- I want a wife, not a puppy.
- Oh, one's much like another. You can do what you like, they don't mind, they still come bouncing back.
- But if I broke it... if I broke this creature, would it mind?
- No.
- Can't have it running off again, you see.
- No, it wouldn't mind. You could do anything. Anything at all.

[attica]

2 hours ago, GinnyMars said:

Since he went "No, no, no, no -- you know I don't... you know I don't like all that." when Alice tried to straddle him...

This didn't read to me as gay. This read to me as sex-negative, misogynistic, and controlling. Which may be distinctions without a difference, but, hey!

[magdalene]

Series finale this Sunday! 

Since they didn't plan for only getting 2 seasons I don't expect things to be tied up.  However, I am really hoping for Alice to become a widow in this final episode.

[izabella]

14 hours ago, GinnyMars said:

I don't get the reference, can someone explain?

Ralph and Alice Kramden, from the early 1950's "The Honeymooners" sitcom, famous for their endless bickering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Honeymooners

[GinnyMars]

18 hours ago, attica said:

This didn't read to me as gay. This read to me as sex-negative, misogynistic, and controlling. Which may be distinctions without a difference, but, hey!

Maybe... It's true I don't remember him displaying any attraction to... anyone.

7 hours ago, izabella said:

Ralph and Alice Kramden, from the early 1950's "The Honeymooners" sitcom, famous for their endless bickering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Honeymooners

Thanks Izabella!

[Mumbles]

I will watch the finale out of a desire to finish off what I started but if there had been a third season I would have checked out. Not a compelling protagonist to root for (I like Ian and Sooni but they are too ancillary to tune in every week for). And maybe I'm projecting because I find the characters so loathsome but I've been finding the way they have been shooting and making up Charlie and Ralph, I have found them so grotesque. Ralph looks like he could stand in for the Emcee character in Cabaret with whatever they're doing with his makeup. 

[Brattinella]

Here's hoping that someone forces malignant Charlie to take that poison pill!

[Brattinella]

Yay!  Charlie got it.  And everyone else lives happily ever after.

[LiveenLetLive]

12 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

Yay!  Charlie got it.  And everyone else lives happily ever after.

yep the bastard got it. Meanwhile the old girl moves in with Ralph and wife, I guess we will never know the real story regarding Ralph's parentage...he was in native garb at the end, maybe a clue?

[Brattinella]

Just a couple last minute comments.  It was absolute JOY when Alice locked the car doors at her monster-hubby!  LOVED THAT!  Also, I adored the mesh/lace-back dress that Madeleine was wearing!  I suspect that Ralph, being a tad bit darker than his sister, is MAYBE mixed, but I have no idea no the daddy might be, maybe the Maharajah?

[Badger]

No, his father is Cynthia's late husband.

I watched the show when it aired in the UK, and I cheered and clapped when Alice locked the doors.

[taanja]

2 hours ago, Brattinella said:

Just a couple last minute comments.  It was absolute JOY when Alice locked the car doors at her monster-hubby!  LOVED THAT!  Also, I adored the mesh/lace-back dress that Madeleine was wearing!  I suspect that Ralph, being a tad bit darker than his sister, is MAYBE mixed, but I have no idea no the daddy might be, maybe the Maharajah?

I thought Ralph's father was Cynthia's husband? Didn't we get that reveal a coupe eps back? And Cynthia made it sound like the affair went on for years so I questioned if Alice and Ralph share the same father?

Anyway. Nice wrap up. I'm glad it wasn't left as a cliff hanger. Sooni married mustache huh? Poor Ian. But I guess since Aafrin and Alice got together it would be too much if Ian and Sooni did as well.

I didn't hate it. In a way Alice did have a hand in murdering her husband so all is well in the world.

[Brattinella]

23 minutes ago, taanja said:

Anyway. Nice wrap up. I'm glad it wasn't left as a cliff hanger. Sooni married mustache huh? Poor Ian.

Hey, at least Sooni wasn't forced to marry Mr Eyebrow.

[TVForever]

Was so happy to see Charlie get what was coming to him. Although I would have been happier to see one of his British set take him out instead of a nameless pack of "murderous, raging Indians". Alice did her part by locking the doors, but it was still the Indians that did the dirty work, so to speak. And they didn't even have a beef with him personally-he was just another Englishman, and they were attacking almost anyone who came along that road. 

[howiveaddict]

The way I look at it, Alice really had to lock the door.  There was no way Charlie  could have safely made it in the car without the gang getting to him. They would have gotten immediately to Alice and child also.  It was double preservation on her part.  

Loved Adam shooting the gun and scaring the thugs.  He turned into a great kid.  He truly had joy smashing the Georgian Knickknacks.

[OoogleEyes]

On 11/15/2016 at 9:51 AM, Deanie87 said:

That is exactly how I feel.  I never understand what is going on from one episode to the next.

Arugh, I thought it was only me.

And snow in India? Where? When?

[Constantinople]

I'm glad Sooni's parents didn't attend her wedding and reception and didn't accept her choice, even if the father appeared conflicted.  It's a nice change from shows where characters from almost a hundred years ago behave as if they're living in the present day.  I'm looking at you, Downton Abbey.

I'm also pleased that at the very end, when it started snowing, the writers resisted the urge to have Aafrin say "Winter is coming".

If Ramu Sood's family was a loaded as all that, I'm surprised the authorities went to all that effort to frame him for killing a nobody (mostly, I'm still surprised they gave a rat's ass about solving the murder of an unknown woman who was a stranger to the community).  I'm even more surprised his sentence wasn't commuted.

Mr Ian sure got over Sooni fast.

I didn't cheer Charlie's death, mostly because it seemed too contrived for me.  It's as if the writers suddenly remembered they wanted to off him by the end of the season, but only had one episode left.  Also, the whole story, both in this season and last, was largely a waste.  Charlie was a stock villain, and Alice and Aafrin should win some kind of award for having the least chemistry of any couple in television history.

'Without a job, I'm not sure what Ralph would do in Simla.

[magdalene]

Happy endings all around! Charlie got his much deserved violent end.

The cynic in me very much doubts that Aafrin and Alice will be allowed by racist society to be happy together. But I wish them the best.

As for Ralphie and Madeline  cohabiting with Cynthia - I am chuckling thinking about it. Oh, I hope those crazy kids make it.

[Brattinella]

1 hour ago, OoogleEyes said:

Arugh, I thought it was only me.

And snow in India? Where? When?

I objected to that, too.  I think MAYBE it snows in the mountains there.

[izabella]

It definitely snows in India, which has the Himalaya Mountains in the north, home of Mt. Everest!  The Ganges river in India is fed by Himalaya snow melt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayas

[Deanie87]

Welp, one thing was made certain to me this episode: given all that he has seen, I expect and Alice and Charlie's son to grow up to be more of a psychopath than his father and uncle combined.  He was just grinning away hours after his father was murdered next to him and Mummy shacked up with the nice, albeit sweaty and hysterical brown man.  Yeesh.

Not everyone got a happy ending.  I feel for Ralph's wife and, especially, Sooni and Aafrin's younger sister.  All of Mrs. Bennett's hopes and machinations are going to fall around that poor girl's head.