Speculation Without Spoilers

[scarynikki12]

This is for all the unspoiled speculation you can think of.  The Anticipation thread is now converted to our Spoiler Discussion thread, so keep all spoiler based spec over there. 

 

Spoilers for the upcoming seasons of Arrow and Flash may not be discussed (each has its own spoiler thread) but the already aired seasons are fair game as far as forming speculation on what could come next for the characters.  Cast interviews and con panels often contain spoilers so keep them in the Spoiler thread. 

 

Otherwise enjoy and send myself or MarkHB a PM with any questions. 

 

scarynikki12

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

After having seen the 'mega crossover' on The Flash & Arrow, to "prequel" into LoT......

 

I have to say, I could care less for any of the players except for Ray Palmer, Sara Lance, Dr Stein, and Captain Cold.  I'll check it out (initially), just because its 'in universe' with TF & A - and hopefully Darvill can bring something as Rip Hunter - but after the last couple of nights, expectations and hopes for LoT are fairly low at the moment.

[Maverick]

 The Hawks are definitely boring (and Hawkman is smarmy jerk) and Vandal is less than impressive (and what is that accent anyway?).   

 

 WTF is Malcolm going to do with Vandal dust?  Put it in a lovely urn on the mantel?  Wear it in a locket around his neck?  Re-hydrated him like the UN Delegates in the 60's Batman movie?

 

 Is Rip Hunter aware of/immune to the timeline changes Barry creares?  (side note to Barry:  maybe it's not Time fighting back.  Maybe you just make bad decisions)

 

 I assume they're going to have to put some kind of limitation on Rip's time travel technology.   Otherwise, why not just go back to Egypt and kill him before he starts the whole reincarnation/immortality cycle.   

[BkWurm1]

The big epic crossover between Flash and Arrow that I was so looking forward to has wiped out my enthusiasm for all three shows right now.  And I didn't so much hate the Hawks but hate them by association since they were in an episode so very very disappointing. 

 

At least I still have Sara.  Sara hasn't disappointed me yet.   

Edited December 3, 2015 by BkWurm1

[scarynikki12]

I enjoyed Kendra very much and am excited to see her flying around kicking ass.  I did not, however, like Hawkman.  In fact, I think I'll be actively disliking him when LOT premieres, to the point that I'll be rooting for him to be the Obligatory First Season Death.  I was previously convinced that it would be Heatwave but now I'll be hoping for Hawkman.  I don't want to see my new girl Kendra saddled with that douche. 

[Starfish35]

I liked Kendra too, a lot. But I'm not crazy about Hawkman either. In the first half, I was amused when he was so blasé about pushing her off the roof. But I didn't care for him much in the second half.

And Vandal Savage isn't so much impressive scary villain as he is creepy old man (definite ick factor going on there). So yeah, my enthusiasm for the show has taken a definite hit. :(

I'm hoping it will get better once we get the rest of the cast on board though. I'll still be here as long as Sara is, and I still have high hopes for Kendra. But I wouldn't complain at all if Hawkman got killed off early on.

[nksarmi]

I like present day Hawkman fine.  I get it - 206 lifetimes means they die at about age 20 or so in most lives.  He's probably getting rather sick of the routine and just wants her to catch up to him stat.  It's the past where he lost me - I didn't like either of them very much in the Egypt bits.  However, I do expect he will die quickly - probably right as Kendra is starting to care about him a little. 

 

What I truly dislike is the Savage story and having it tied to the Hawks.  I rather liked the version where Vandall was a Caveman who got hit by a meteor and somehow became super smart and immortal.  This version is less fun somehow.  Still looking forward to LoT, just not as happy with their villain now.

Edited December 3, 2015 by nksarmi

[quarks]

I don't think the Egypt bits did much to help any of the characters - between the terrible sets, the not very great costuming, the sorta rapey stuff, the whole "you can't sleep with royalty" stuff, the evil meteors, and the issue that I have no idea why Horus decided to jump into this ("You're having forbidden sex and there are evil meteors, so I'm going to give you wings and make you get reincarnated a lot!" "Thanks, Horus!") it was more confusing than anything else.

 

Even if I laughed a lot.

[Sakura12]

Since I've stopped caring about Arrow after season 3 episode 1. I'm waiting for the actual show to start to make judgments. I want to see how everyone is on this show without being bogged down by those other shows. Arrow and Flash didn't really set up the premise of LoT they just introduced or reintroduced the characters. LoT episode 1 will be a new starting point for me. I'm really looking forward to Sara and Kendra interacting. 

 

I do think Hawkman is a dick so I hope he's gone soon. We have enough men on the show. 

 

From the new promo with Ray saying "You're just a lost assassin and you're just a bunch of criminals". Does he think it's smart to be a dick to three people that have no problem killing people? 

[Halliwell]

Did they release a new promo last night? Is there a link?

[nksarmi]

Sakura - I think Ray's line needs context like there was something before and after it that would make it sound less snipey and more like it made sense in that moment.

Edited December 3, 2015 by nksarmi

[Sakura12]

I'm assuming that he was probably listing off what they all are like Stein did in the original promo, his way just sounds more dickish to me. 

[FurryFury]

I guess I'm the only person who doesn't hate the Hawks. Although I think Hawkman is a stronger actor than Ciara Renee. Still, she's not as wooden as some of the other actors of this universe, so I think she has the potential to get better. I'm not a fan of Hawkgirl's personality though (based on what we've seen).

 

I guess Vandal Savage and the whole Egyptian connection are what disappointed me the most, but I'll still watch the show, without doubt.

[quarks]

I guess I'm the only person who doesn't hate the Hawks. Although I think Hawkman is a stronger actor than Ciara Renee. Still, she's not as wooden as some of the other actors of this universe, so I think she has the potential to get better. I'm not a fan of Hawkgirl's personality though (based on what we've seen).

 

I guess Vandal Savage and the whole Egyptian connection are what disappointed me the most, but I'll still watch the show, without doubt.

 

I didn't hate the Hawks. I still like Hawkgirl, and I'm willing to see more of Hawkman in action.

 

I'm just saying that the ancient Egypt stuff really didn't win me over, mostly because I kept laughing my way through it. EVIL METEORS! LET'S CALL HORUS!

[Delphi]

I'm not so sure that Savage wasn't a caveman at some point. I could see him having infiltrated ancient Egypt for his own goals or something like that.

[Sakura12]

I don't mind Hawkgirl, I can tell the actress is acting for the stage instead of the screen still. I'm giving her time to adjust. I'm hoping being around Sara will make her more assertive to her I'm the male soulmate. Although it seems like this version of her remembers their first death while he's never remembered it. She could be stronger already. 

 

Hawkman is the expandable one for me, same with Heatwave, we don't need two people with similar abilities. 

[Proteus]

I'm so disappointed with the Hawks and Savage. All three are such a huge letdown. The Flarrow crossover would not get me to watch LOT if I knew it'd be heavily about those three. My main reason to watch this show continues to be Sara. I hope Rip, Firestorm, and Snart can also keep my interest.

[Trini]

I really hope they can round out Hawkman's personality over here. Especially if they want me to buy the epic love story of the Hawks. He was ridiculously one-note in the crossover.

[BkWurm1]

I don't think they introduced Kendra and Carter well and I really blame what they did with Kendra and Cisco for that more than how Hawkman was cast or written.  I just felt like they wanted to have Kendra be Cisco's puppy love cutie while at the same time be seen as a super hot and worthy of inducing a 4000 year obsession from VS that went deeper than just wanting their life force.  Hopefully they will do something to sort of reset the dynamic between Kendra and Carter because right now, I feel icky about it. 

[kismet]

It was kind of a dumb introduction to the Hawks by placing the LoT Triangle in cheesy flashbacks and also in a present day Triangle. Maybe they forgot to tell AK & MG that Hawkman & Hawkgirl are reincarnate lovers for over 4000 years? I get that they wanted us to believe that Kendra had no knowledge of her past life. But I doubt she would fall that easily for Cisco. Or that Cisco would fall that easily for her. At the beginning of the xover, they were still trying to define what they were and then by the middle of the Arrow portion Cisco was IN LOVE with Kendra. I get infatuation and attraction, but it was puppy love at best and they made Cisco all moody over it.

 

I still would have preferred that they have used Iris to introduces us to Kendra, that way there would not have been that need to shift mentally from one love triangle to the next love triangle. Or at least keep the romantic connection between Cisco & Kendra out of the shows, a cool friendship perhaps with Cisco pining a little. It weakens the Hawks romantic connection and it highlight Cisco's acting weaknesses.

[BkWurm1]

I still would have preferred that they have used Iris to introduces us to Kendra, that way there would not have been that need to shift mentally from one love triangle to the next love triangle. Or at least keep the romantic connection between Cisco & Kendra out of the shows, a cool friendship perhaps with Cisco pining a little. It weakens the Hawks romantic connection and it highlight Cisco's acting weaknesses.

 

Hmm, that sounds like a great idea.  Why does it sound so familiar to me?  ;p

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

In part for LoT to work, for me, they really need to tone down on the Hawks/VS connection.  Its just too weirdly 'MA' for a network show.   Other TV-safe dialogue was used, but all I got from those ancient Egypt flashbacks was "I'm going to kill you, Khufu, and then F* your lover, Shayera, whether she wants it or not.  *insert evil laughter*"  Go create and put a series on HBO/another cable channel or Netflix for that kind of shit.

 

Since Flash has established that different timelines and universes can & do happen, does that mean (at least) a couple of x-overs with Flash per season?  If so, hope to God they're better than the F/A x-overs we've gotten so far.

Edited December 9, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Forgive my lack of knowledge of both the comics and information surrounding the show itself... but is the group of heroes supposed to be something like this Flarrow universe's version of the JSA?

Edited December 11, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[MarkHB]

I wouldn't call it that, personally; there are a couple of villains thrown in, and it's more of a team assembled for a specific purpose than an ongoing group dedicated to protecting the Earth.  I think there was a Justice League Strike Force comic for a while, and you could compare it to that (I was saying they should have called them the Outsiders before the name was announced).

[Trini]

I'm sure they'll be many team-focused episodes, but also episodes where they will focus on 2 or 3 (or maybe even just 1) team members. I don't think DC/WB/CW spent money on those costumes and CGI just for the Hawks to fade to the background.

[tarotx]

I'm just hoping the Hawks fade into the background because the crossover episodes were unimpressive.

[Sakura12]

I don't mind the Hawks, they just didn't do anything for me. Maybe they will get better on this show when no one has to worry about Arrow or the Flash. I'm excited for these characters to get to shine on their own. 

 

I want Sara and Snart to be besties and snark on everyone, I want to see Kendra and Sara kick some ass. I want to see Stein not be a big fan of Ray, I want to see Ray be in over his head dealing with the Rogue crew of Cold, Heatwave and Canary. I want to see Stein school all the young ones with his intelligence. I want to see Rip yell at his misfit team for not listening to him. There is so much they can do with these cast of characters.  

[Lady Calypso]

It's odd, but the more I think about it, the more I feel like Sara and Snart are going to be my favourites. I think they could end up being close, and their dynamic is what interests me the most. I'll be sad if they don't use these two to their advantage. Not only am I looking forward to these two, but also Stein. Rip Hunter is just ok for me at the moment (not disliking or liking him yet), Jax is ok as well and the Hawks, Ray and Vandal are just...eh. Heatwave is the one I have completely forgotten about because I've heard next to nothing about his character, besides that he was going to be a regular. So yeah, I predict that Heatwave is the most expendable, which I'm cool with for now.

 

So basically, as long as they don't touch Sara, Snart, Stein or I guess Rip (and their respected loved ones), then I'll be happy.

[Trini]

 

... I'll be sad if they don't use these two to their advantage. ...

 

I feel they will; because with a team that's essentially a C-list Justice League, why in the world would Capt. Cold be there? --Because the producers wanted Wentworth Miller (and I'm guessing WM wanted Dominic Purcell).

And with Sara they probably have to; with all the trouble they went through to resurrect her.

[Sakura12]

I think they are more like Guardians of the Galaxy than C-List Justice League. The Justice League is full of heroes. They are a bunch of misfits thrown together trying to save the world. They aren't usually thought of as heroes and don't want to be. But if the world needs saving they will pitch in and help.

 

I also think the "bad" ones will stick together at first because the good ones will be side eyeing them because they are criminals and an assassin. The longer they are together and the more tight spots they help each other get out of they will all become closer. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Sakura12

[sjohnson]

There's an awful lot of people in this cast. And, although this is probably a minority (of one?) view, seasonal arcs usually fail because writing  a Big Bad isn't really a very interesting idea. Not to mention, most Big Bads seem to me to be Big Whoop instead.

 

Still going to check it out. Because Wentworth Miller snarking up the place.

[Trini]

Completely shallow speculation:

 

I think Brandon Routh looks better with some scruff, unfortunately, I don't think they will let him grow a beard.

 

--

It's the CW, so which male cast member will get a shirtless scene first?

Most likely candidates:

ATOM/Ray,

Hawkman,

Heatwave,

Firestorm/Jay,

Rip,

 

I'd say Ray, but that seems too obvious; maybe Hawkman?

[Sakura12]

I think it's going to be Hawkman. 

[FurryFury]

Jay, so far he seems to me to be the worst actor (so most likely to have been hired for his abs). But Hawkman is also likely because of flashback attire.

[BkWurm1]

The actor playing Hawkman is ripped.  If we don't get shirtless I'm crying fowl.  (Yes that was a bird pun)

Edited January 11, 2016 by BkWurm1

[yellowfred]

My money's on it being Hawkman, mostly so Kendra can have an "I still hate him, but damn he's hot" moment.

[johntfs]

We've already got a slight preview of next season in the Time Masters' speculation.  The team will defeat Vandal Savage only to see him replaced by Graffiti Barbarian and Littering Primitive.  God help the universe once we reach the terror of Jaywalking Caveman.

[KirkB]

I don't know about you but I would watch Graffiti Barbarian. 

 

As for the shirtless speculation, Hawkman seems the most likely. Just to mess with those of you interested though, it'll probably be Stein.

[Sakura12]

Maybe Sara will be the first one to take off her shirt. CL's got some amazing abs. She had the shirtless sparring scene on Arrow with Stephen and David.

 

[Trini]

Hawkman is still going to recurring, right? I mean, I hope they didn't just kill off the best set of (male) abs on the show.

 

-----

Anyway, Jax is the weakest character/actor for me; and it's especially bad since he has to play off the strongest actor, Garber.

[ketose]

I'm wondering how the Time Masters work. Are they from more places than Earth? If they're all humans, wouldn't they have a problem with one megalomaniac taking over the planet for an unlimited amount of time? Even if not, I think they should consider the principle of a "temporal prime directive" rather than the letter of the law.

[KirkB]

I think it depends on how important the Time Masters themselves are to the story. Because if they're just a footnote, they are the reason Rip Hunter has the knowledge and the ship. then we technically know enough to follow the show and so they won't bother with any more background. If they are going to play a larger role in the story though, then yeah we need to know more about their backgrounds and makeup. But they might need to rethink their name since they aren't really Masters of Time if one of their own can bop around in it grabbing people and changing stuff and the only thing they seem to be able to do to try and stop him is send one ineffectual guy in a mask.

Edited February 14, 2016 by KirkB

[scarynikki12]

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that they'll defeat Savage in 2016.  I know they want to get the jump on him but I'm thinking that they will have to defeat him when he has full knowledge of them and their abilities.  I don't think the producers will want to delete anything from the Arrow and Flash timelines so they can't defeat him in the past.  And I think defeating him in the future will be risky as it would leave the door open for that defeat to be erased.  So, I think it will be in 2016 and I wonder if they'll figure out how he resurrects from the ashes of the crossover, and who helps him, go to that moment and have Kendra there waiting for him.  Savage rises from his ashes, armed with even more knowledge of the team hunting him throughout time and ready to continue his plan of world domination, only for Kendra to just stab him in the heart with the anointed dagger. 

 

Then they go to Rip's time to confirm their success, my theory about a new Rip being installed and our Rip being a man without a time plays out, Gideon gets an upgrade that reveals that there are plenty of other times that could use a positive change and the team decides to stay together and move forward. 

 

Or, while Gideon is getting the upgrade, they meet with the Time Masters who, upon examining the ship records and noting the existence of two Rips, realize that there are events in history that can be changed and recruit the team to do exactly that. 

[Sakura12]

I think they will have to defeat Savage in Rip's time after his family died. That way they won't be changing anything from the past. That will also make Rip have to decide what's more important stopping Savage or saving his family. 

[KirkB]

I can't speak for the when (in the timeline) the actual confrontation will happen but I think Sakura12 is right about it coming down to Rip having to choose between saving his family and saving the world by defeating Savage. When Savage killed them he was at the height of his power. Maybe after he took them out there is a moment where he lets down his guard and Rip realizes that if he swoops in and saves his family Savage will pull back, close ranks and be that much harder to get to, so he has to let them die in order to take Savage out.

[scarynikki12]

I can see that but my only concern is the fallout.  If Rip's family still dies horribly, then he'll either spend season 2 grieving harder than he is now or he'll get written like Caitlin from Flash and just get over it while paying occasional lip service as to how sad he was.  The former should put off any plans for a relationship to develop between Rip and another character and I can't see them doing the latter given the criticism of Caitlin's Flash-esque moving on from Ronnie's death. 

 

There's also the question of world wide fallout.  Defeating Savage after he's already conquered the world is great but there would then be a power vacuum.  His top tier lieutenants will start fighting each other for the top spot and that easily escalates into a World War.  Would the team stick around to help set things right or would they just leave the future in chaos since they completed their mission?  The former removes the time travel hook and the latter would be a really horrible thing to do. 

 

I do agree that Rip will have to give up his family, I'm just skeptical that he won't be able to save them and the world.  Plus, there's still the question of renewal and saving both would at least give the show a happy ending if it doesn't return (though I'm optimistic). 

[nksarmi]

Well I think they will defeat Savage and I strongly suspect that it will be in Rip's time because he won't be able to save his family or change the past.  BUT I could also see them having to defeat VS in 2016 because Rip's past is their future and VS was defeated in the cross over except that Malcolm reconstructed him.  I really hope they get a season two.

[BkWurm1]

I think that Rip's family is now too important to the tale to end up defeating Savage in any timeline except when they are around.  They could work out something earlier than right as BS takes over the world (cause that's a bit far along in his plan) but Rip's wife and kid have to be there, so unless someone in VS's organization gets a hold of a time machine, I can't see it happening in 2016.  

 

Still, it will be more than just his family at stake, it will be all the complicated choices of saving his family vs defeating Savage and also having his team's back.  I still think there's a good chance that VS will be defeated but something will happen that takes his family out of his reach, either he hides them or the 2nd Rip theory, or time napped and the search is on. 

[KirkB]

There's also the question of world wide fallout.  Defeating Savage after he's already conquered the world is great but there would then be a power vacuum.  His top tier lieutenants will start fighting each other for the top spot and that easily escalates into a World War.  Would the team stick around to help set things right or would they just leave the future in chaos since they completed their mission?  The former removes the time travel hook and the latter would be a really horrible thing to do.

 

 

You're right, but the thing is the show has established that Savage has a whole organization built up throughout time with numerous followers seeing him as a living god. When the team finally does kill Savage, regardless of when, all the people he leaves behind are either going to go around causing mass destruction in his name or cause mass destruction fighting each other in order to replace him. Unless they go back to ancient Egypt or something and kill Savage before he has all of this set up just getting rid of him won't necessarily make things better.

[Delphi]

Would Savage have even targeted Rip's family if Rip hadn't fine back to try to stop Savage and had his watch/picture stolen? It seems to me Rip himself made this into some sort of paradox where his own actions lead to the murder of his family. Which would be interesting, but I'm not sure if the show would be great at exploring it.