Season 6 Speculation WITH Spoilers (UK)

[Hecate7]

I'd never believe Tom talking that way to Mary. And she is neither a bully nor a coward. She has been a bitch to Edith sometimes, but when please has she every bullied Edith into something? Or anyone else?

Tom sounds absolutely disgusted and he will never be that disgusted with his best friend Mary. He loves her, platnoically or not!

 

No, after hearing that, I'm very sure it must be Thomas to whom he's talking. Thomas is the only person in the house who HAS been a bully all along and Tom knows it. I bet Thomas has overheard something about Marigold, goes to the agent's office to seek out Tom and wants to pressure him in typical Thomas fashion into letting him stay at Downton, by threatening to reveal the truth about Marigold. 

 

But Thomas motiviation is desperation mostly and Tom's rant might be the last trigger to a suicide attempt. 

 

 

It might be, but does Tom know much about Thomas? Or any of the bullying that's gone on in the house? And actually bullies in the house have included Carson, Thomas, Mary, O'Brien, and at one point the Dowager Countess, although she's done no bullying in a very long time. I wondered if he might be speaking to Thomas myself, but why would he? So passionately? What's at stake there for him?

[DianeDobbler]

I've expressed this before, but my point of view continues to be that Rose was brought on to be the eventual love interest for Tom, but due to the hierarchy of the show, Rose/Tom was never going to be launched until it was determined which of Mary's suitors was the winner and that story was underway. But as it happened they ALL bombed, and bombed thoroughly. I think that was when Fellowes was like - well, Brary it is! And married Rose off posthaste. Meantime, Tom gets absolutely nothing to do because in Fellowes' Mary-centric game plan, he only exists to be Mary's happy ending, and Fellowes doesn't want to tip his hand. So he misdirects (Tom goes to America) and basically sidelines Tom til Mary's own misdirected beats are all played. Tom isn't anything in his own right, really. The only person who exists in their own right, really, for Fellowes, is Mary.

 

As to Tom's youthful dreams coming to nothing, I speculate that Fellowes thinks Tom evolving from a socialist chauffeur to a guy bent on modernizing Downton is a logical progression (although it really isn't) and Tom's modernism is consistent with his socialism. Which it's not, but I sort of see how Fellowes thinks it is. A Tom who evolves to buy into the whole "Lord of the Manor and dependants/in-service" sorts might appear to be a betrayal of his character to Fellowes. A Tom who moves Downton to a more "fair", transactional, reality-based model might seem to Fellowes to suit his character. Not saying I believe it, but I think Fellowes does.

 

The problem, IMO, is the utter Mary-centricity of the show when it comes to love stories. Unless she's set, nothing can happen for other people. By other people I mean the few who are classic leads, which is really Mary, Tom and Edith (and, previously, Rose). Rose was simply rushed off stage via a marriage. Edith idled in park a long time. Tom was treading water with a woman the audience actively disliked. All while Fellowes was sorting through Mary's options.

Edited November 7, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[ElizaD]

To me, sadder than the non-happening of Mary/Tom is Edith's happy ending. Before this season I was fine with her getting Bertie, who seemed like a nice man, but season 6 has actually turned out to be a reminder of what a selfish, nasty person Edith is in her own lowkey way. She's busy feeling sorry for herself and remembering or looking for slights, but she doesn't have the slightest bit of appreciation for the support she does get from her family (everyone has been fine with hiding the truth about her daughter - what a way to dodge karma for her gleeful slutshaming of Mary when she went out of her way to publicize and validate the Pamuk gossip). She's also demonstrated her callousness in her lack of any kind of regret over what the Drewes' generosity and love of Marigold ended up costing them. Poor Edith is always the victim who never feels sorry for anything she's done or the way she has intentionally or unintentionally hurt people. She never has the moments of insight Mary had when she admitted she wasn't as good as Sybil; demonstrating zero self-awareness, Edith has the audacity to accuse Mary of being jealous and scheming, as if those haven't been her own defining characteristics in their relationship! As she earlier pointed out, more honestly, Mary ignores her because she's not interested in her, but when it suits Edith to put a different spin on things Mary suddenly becomes a schemer out to get her. Mary shouldn't bother to maintain any kind of relationship with Edith once she and Bertie have moved away: she's better off only putting up with her during Christmas and other obligatory holidays, and Edith can find new people to be jealous or unappreciative of.

 

Things seem to be pointing at a Thomas suicide attempt, but I don't think he'll succeed. Downton would get darker than usual if Thomas killed himself, especially because there's been such an emphasis on Carson's disrespect of him and his sense of isolation, voluntary or not, at his workplace. Since Molesley is leaving to become a teacher, Andy wants to be a farmer, Bates is about to become a father and Carson is getting old, Thomas is the only male character who could stay at Downton to be George's Carson - despite all the modernizing, the Crawleys are still going to want somebody around for at least a couple more decades.

[sark1624]

I disagree with your opinion about Edith and Mary´s characther on this season, in this season we see Edith, doing things with the magazine, in the other hand 80% of Mary´s time afther the death of Matthew is about the suitors. In fact we see that Ediths has matured in some ways, yes, all the things with the Drewes went very wrong and its the low point of the characther in this season. And also the family knows how Mary treats Edith, if things were different they have been told to Edith that she must trust in Mary, nobody have told that to Edith, in fact Anna noticed that and tacitly agrees with that, for that reason she also doesnt want to speak about Marigold.

 

Mary always have all the family behind her, in fact they made a "house party" only to cheer her up (the same family who always talk about reducing deficit), Edith in the other hand has little support of her family, only with Marigold and in the end of the series there has been support. I also think when Robert tell her that he also  knows about Marigold secret.and he is ok with that, he also says that he also needs her pardon (indirectly maybe he was referring to his lak of atention to Edith´s problems). Accodring to the spoilers they are going to bring back Violet to talk with Mary about her romantic life with Talbot, also if Mary ruins the chances with Bertie (now a marquis) is going to be another example of disparity about the traditional support of the family, why no they can bring Violet back to fix things betwen Bertie and Edith? 

 

Also we noticed that the family show more respect for the death of Charlie  Rogers (maybe because they also saw the accident) but none to Gregson, i bet that Edith didtn want a full mourn but just one dinner o night of respect. But in the day that they knew the death of Gregson all the talk was about the incoming race, the new hair of Mary, etc.

 

In the end i think that the characther of Mary is a facade that show herself as a cold and stubborn lady, but in the end she is very weak because she need the support of her family to do every (in fact is Tom who do most of the work in the estate, also Robert noticed that when Mary said that she was going to go a fashion show). In the other hand Edith just hold  and soldiers things in life (many provoked by herself), and many times with no the happy endings, with a life like that you cannot expect that she behaves herself with security and joy every day. Same thing with Anna, all the problems that she has to endure also affects the personality, creating persons with low esteem and a uunassuming personality.

Edited November 7, 2015 by sark1624

[Brn2bwild]

Just a thought regarding the Isobel-Lord Merton situation: isn't the legislation that ends the entail enacted in 1926?  Maybe once they wed, Lord Merton will gather his horrible heirs and announce that though Larry might inherit the title, the estate will be left to someone else, thank you very much.

[CofCinci]

To me, the Branson and Mary pairing just comes across as lazy.

[sunflower]

 

To me, the Branson and Mary pairing just comes across as lazy.

 

I disagree.  It's the Henry/Mary that comes across as lazy.  OTOH, Mary/Tom, at least, appears to have been developed over 3-4 seasons since the death of their respective spouses.  It may be icky to some, but not lazy.  I'll be disappointed and bored with Henry as Mary's endgame, but not surprised.  

[Future Cat Lady]

To me, the Branson and Mary pairing just comes across as lazy.

 

Well, it's not as lazy as Mary/Henry. However, if Mary and Tom end up together, it will be because fans reacted well to that pairing and not because JF had a grand plan for them from the start. 

[DianeDobbler]

Mary and Tom come across to me as if Mary is the star of the show, and so must have the happy ending, which includes love and a love interest of whom the audience approves. For whatever reason, and of the four actors brought in to try, none clicked. Yet the ending must happen - Mary must have a love interest in whom the audience is invested (as a character in his own right, even if not as her consort most specifically). If there's laziness, it's in the concept of Mary and the ending Fellowes is determined she have. I think Brary is the whole reason Rose never did anything - she was brought on when Mary was looking for a suitor, and she had to wait til Mary was set, and Mary never was set.

 

That said, it's not as if Fellowes is forcing two magnets together with Tom and Mary. The actors/characters have a definite rapport and ease. The history is there without having to force it, they're able to relate to each other as the people they are versus the personas they're assigned on the show. Each has individual appeal apart from their utility in a plot - something none of the suitors managed. Brary is really not lazy, but the only way Fellowes can complete his (non-Matthew) arc for Mary.

 

Recently looked at a Matthew/Mary montage and truly, there just has been nobody ever who brings out in Mary what Matthew brought out in Mary. A real joyousness, energy, vulnerability, accessibilty - basically fully dimensional and SO much more energy and urgency, whether happy or sad. Not forgetting what a crapload the writing was for Matthew for a good deal of Season 2 and all of Season 3. There was just so much believable emotion, so much convincing investment in Matthew by the other characters. 

 

Edith. When I watch a show, if, in my opinion, something doesn't work, I don't take it on its own terms. It's a failure, IMO, and I kick it out of the canon, and don't factor it in when I evaluate a character. So, the Drews. That never worked, IMO. First off, casting. I think they needed to have cast Mrs. Drew a hell of a lot more strongly, and given her a hell of a lot more motive for loving Marigold than simply telling us. The reality of those times was infant mortality was high, farming life was incredibly hard work, and Mrs. Drew already had a hard slog of it, already had a busy, hectic day, already was a mom to active children. Her husband comes in and announces they're taking care of this girl, and Downton did nothing, not with the actress playing Mrs. Drew,  and not with the writing, to make me believe she'd formed this possessive attachment to her. Realistically, she'd have been a bit of a burden. We didn't see anything of the ways Marigold might have won Mrs. Drew's heart. As far as I'm concerned, Edith gets a complete pass and the Drews matter about as much as the eternal Mr. Green one of the Bates' might have kicked under a bus. Re-set and move on, that's how I feel about that one.

 

For the first half of Downton, Edith received appalling treatment from her family. They were oblivious to her accomplishments, such as her nursing, and absolutely couldn't believe she could be attractive to ANY man, nor could they believe anybody believed in her talent. Her father openly believed she was offered a writing post because of her name only. Can't be writing talent AND the title was good advertising. Basically, Robert constantly believed that nobody could give two figs about Edith in her own right, because he didn't. I thought what the family did - undermining her marriage to Stallan, was criminal. IF Fellowes had written and directed that relationship as Edith forcing herself to take on an older man, trying against her instincts to appreciate his company because she was that desperate for an independent situation of her own, then fine. Instead we saw a very natural affinity between Stallan and Edith, and a real happiness in Edith as a bride, and her family being utterly unbelievable and ridiculous in their rationale for undermining the union. Who EVER believed they undermined it for Edith's sake? They never gave two shits about Edith. Stallan was extremely rich - the whinging on about how she'd end up a nurse for him and how they had to save her - the man had tons of money, all of his faculties, and three fully working limbs. That came off as just pure meanness - they couldn't BEAR the idea she'd be married to a man of position - almost as if they sought to save HIM from her. Then their pure insensitivity about Gregson. The family looked with suspicion upon anyone who showed an interest in Edith. The family had such contempt for Edith, that their default attitude was everyone else must have immediate contempt for her as well, so if someone showed interest in Edith, clearly Edith must be set straight. Honey, nobody would be interested in you for YOU.

 

Mary would be vicious to Edith - about her grief, about EVERYTHING, and not corrected. Edith also had to hear stuff from her mother about how she lacked Mary's advantages (IOW, not pretty). Sure, that was overheard, not intended for Edith's ears, but we know Edith got the message loud and clear over and over. Then, when Mary said Edith lacked ANY advantages, Cora didn't correct her. Boy, that certainly cultivates trust in one's parents.

 

I think the family got a shock when Edith began establishing her own life. I think it's no coincidence that an aunt was the one who first had to reach out to help Edith when Edith was pregnant. It's also difficult not to believe that for Edith's grandmother, Violet, Edith being pregnant actually made her see Edith as valuable - oh look, a man cared enough to become intimate with her, the care the man had for Edith validated by the fact that he left her his power of attorney and his property as well. Also, simply Violet had a realization that energy might actually have to be expended upon Edith, otherwise instead of just lying at home like a doormat, she might stir things up and tarnish the family name. When Edith made it more than clear she was ready to manage on her own, suddenly the family - meaning Violet and Cora (not Rosamond, the best of the lot where Edith is concerned) swoop in. It read so much like the old thing of playing hard to get versus taking someone for granted. As soon as Edith was hard to get - and the family noticed that ridiculously belatedly, long after Gregson was dead - suddenly she was of interest. So much ego in that family.

 

In fact, I kind of believe that when she inherited authority and property from Gregson, THAT was when her family began to realize she couldn't be the whipping post. They still failed to respect her grief.  

 

The pregnancy was the turning point that made the family begin to respect Edith, but it should never have come to that.

Edited November 8, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[Future Cat Lady]

I don't think for a second that Rose was brought on for Tom. After losing Sybil and Matthew, the upstairs cast was a bit lacking. Also Rose was young and could get into the new 20s stuff. Rose was way too young and silly for Tom. 

 

She was also quickly married because the actress was leaving. 

 

As for Mary suitors, I still think that Charles Blake was supposed to be the one. IIRC, Julian Ovenden was offered the role and developed the character with JF. Charles was the character who was the best suited for Mary (on paper). He was modern thinking and an heir, just like Matthew. At the end of the S4 CS, it really looked like that's where the storyline was going. However, something happened behind the scene between S4 and S5 that put an end to that storyline. In the first episode of S5, Mary was all over Tony.

 

So did JF changed his mind about Charles? Did he thought that the pairing didn't work onscreen? Did the actor decide to leave? Did they found out that Matthew Goode would be available for the CS and scrapped Charles/Mary? We'll probably never know.

 

As for Henry/Mary, I was sure they would end up together for the sole reason that they have a big name actor to play the guy. However, the storyline is so badly written that I'm not sure where it's going. The character his very thin. We know nothing about him  except that he likes cars and racing. It's also very strange that Mary has all her emotional moments and in-depth conversations with Tom. And let's not talk how Tom is pushing for this couple as if his life depended on it. I also find it very funny that most people online seem to dislike this couple. Of course, that doesn't change the ending since everything is already filmed.

 

I'm not entirely against a Tom/Mary pairing but I don't ship it. They're great friends and I love their scenes, but it would be weird for me to see them as lovers. However, I would choose Tom over Henry in a minute. The truth is that I would never ship anyone with Mary except Matthew. 

 

For me the best ending would be a single Mary who will see to the future of Downton with Tom as her platonic partner. That way, everyone can invent their own futures for the characters. Just my opinion anyway. 

Edited November 8, 2015 by Future Cat Lady

[Badger]

According to his aunt, Henry has noble ancestors but he's too far down for it to matter.  His father was an MP so he grew up in London but spent summers in various country estates owned by relatives and/or friends.   He's comfortably well-off, but not rich.  

[skyways]

For whatever reason, and of the four actors brought in to try, none clicked. Yet the ending must happen

 

I wonder when folks will get that it was the WRITING, both writing and directing that sunk that storyline? Maybe after episode 8? lol. The actors were fine.

Edited November 8, 2015 by skyways

[magdalene]

Are there any happy Edith spoilers for that CS? And maybe some spoiler that Mary gets run over by a train or something?

[vesperholly]

So were the "two weddings" we were told about Carson/Mrs Hughes and Mary/Talbot? 

 

>:-[

[shipperx]

I'm still a bit stunned that they screwed Edith romantically yet AGAIN.

I really want spoilers that Edith and Tom aren't left only as witnesses to Mary's fabulous life.

[Glade]

I wonder when folks will get that it was the WRITING, both writing and directing that sunk that storyline? Maybe after episode 8? lol. The actors were fine.

 

Yes, JF managed to make even a charismatic, talented actor like Matthew Goode extremely boring.  Given solid character development and a coherent, well thought out storyline over multiple seasons, any of the four could have sold it, but as it is they were given crap material and apparently not even Julian Evendon could be persuaded to stick around.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Glade

[Brn2bwild]

I'm still a bit stunned that they screwed Edith romantically yet AGAIN.

I really want spoilers that Edith and Tom aren't left only as witnesses to Mary's fabulous life.

 

Pretty sure that there were spoilers about Edith and Bertie's upcoming wedding months ago.

[shipperx]

Did we or was it Mary's wedding and people didn't guess but assumed it was Edith's?

[Brn2bwild]

Did we or was it Mary's wedding and people didn't guess but assumed it was Edith's?

 

I think the invitations mentioned the wedding of "Herbert," so it could only be Edith's, unless TPTB want to be really cruel.

[Dejana]

Did we or was it Mary's wedding and people didn't guess but assumed it was Edith's?

 

 

The spoiler came from a stray order of service left behind at a church where the show was filming, for a wedding between Edith and "Herbert".

[Andorra]

Edith is definitely getting married in the CS. It will be a huge society wedding with more than hundred extras. Rose, Atticus, Shrimpy etc will all be there. There was an order of service found in the Bampton church and it says the wedding is between Edith and Bertie. 

 

Also they filmed at Brancaster so we will see them visiting Edith's new home.

 

So the Edith fans have nothing to worry about.

 

I'm going to watch the CS, but I'm not looking forward to it. The best I can hope happening for Tom now is that he gets together with that editor who will die of lung cancer. Great. Everything I ever hoped for. 

[Ide]

He read about three weddings and I'm sure Edith will marry in CS.

 

What do you think we'll see in the Christmas special apart from that wedding. It'll be 1927 so two years later. I hope Carson has retired, do you retire as butler or did people just die? I know that Thomas Barrow polarised but I'd like to see him as Carsons successor, he definitely needs a extensive job to do so he won't have the need or time for scheming. And he could be that for George what Carson was/is for Mary. I'd like that. Moseley will probably be full time teacher and hopefully he and Mrs Baxter will be together. And I guess the Bates baby is running around, will they still work at DA? Daisy and Andy will be on the farm I think. Do you think Mary would want another child? I guess Henry would want to.

 

Or and I almost forgot, wasn't there a funeral/death? Or was that this Charlie guy?

[MissLucas]

There was talk about a  funeral. I think it should be for Sir Julian's Oscar.

[JustSaying16016]

I will believe Edith's happy ending when I see it....LOL! I have a love/hate relationship when it comes to JF and it is more hate right now. Mary and Henry were blah this season and I did not expect that based on what I saw last CS. Still unclear why they brought Tom back.

Here it my bit of speculation -- a lot of it already mentioned. Of course, we have not seen the last of Bertie but when we see him again, he will be engaged Adela Graham. Paths will cross. Bertie will not be able to hide his feelings toward Edith. Enter Bertie's mother and this will result in a meeting between Bertie's mother and Edith. Hopefully, Edith will find the courage to stand up to her and this will lead to Edith and Bertie's reunion. Mary's cruel, jealous act (and yes, Edith should have told Bertie by that point) did make Edith face her worst fear. I originally thought Bertie was blah but found myself rooting for their ship and still am. However, at this point, I ship Edith/Happiness. Edith seemed to find some peace at the end of the episode.

Now, I enter real speculation. We know there will be a baby Bates. One life enters....one life leaves. Robert is too easy. I am going to say Cora or George. Now, there is a VERY big part of me that states JF would not kill a child, let alone air it on Christmas Day but have we seen Mary's big u-turn? The way the children we playing around the tombstones seemed ominous maybe. Then we see Sybil Cora Branson's name. Will JF bait and switch with Robert and have it be Cora? We have a big time jump in CS to allow for grieving.

As for Tom, I originally thought Laura but now wondering if it will be Adela Graham? Seriously, if I weren't shipping Edith/Bertie, I would be shipping Edith/Laura. Bananas! He coaxed Sybil over the wall. Will he do it again? Still think his character got the short end but hoping we will see a glimpse of something.

[Andorra]

For Tom it's clearly Laura Edmunds. There's no other purpose for her to be in the series than setting her up as Tom's love interest in the CS. It will be a very vague thing though, I'm sure. Just a bit of smiling maybe at Edith's wedding and that will be all he gets. 

[kpw801]

I will believe Edith's happy ending when I see it....LOL! I have a love/hate relationship when it comes to JF and it is more hate right now. Mary and Henry were blah this season and I did not expect that based on what I saw last CS. Still unclear why they brought Tom back.

Here it my bit of speculation -- a lot of it already mentioned. Of course, we have not seen the last of Bertie but when we see him again, he will be engaged Adela Graham. Paths will cross. Bertie will not be able to hide his feelings toward Edith. Enter Bertie's mother and this will result in a meeting between Bertie's mother and Edith. Hopefully, Edith will find the courage to stand up to her and this will lead to Edith and Bertie's reunion. Mary's cruel, jealous act (and yes, Edith should have told Bertie by that point) did make Edith face her worst fear. I originally thought Bertie was blah but found myself rooting for their ship and still am. However, at this point, I ship Edith/Happiness. Edith seemed to find some peace at the end of the episode.

Now, I enter real speculation. We know there will be a baby Bates. One life enters....one life leaves. Robert is too easy. I am going to say Cora or George. Now, there is a VERY big part of me that states JF would not kill a child, let alone air it on Christmas Day but have we seen Mary's big u-turn? The way the children we playing around the tombstones seemed ominous maybe. Then we see Sybil Cora Branson's name.

 

I wondered whose tombstone that was.  Didn't have my glasses on and couldn't read it.  Yep that is some serious foreshadowing.  Matthew's tomb scene and Sybil's.  Hmm.  I still don't know if JF will give Edith her happy ending.  This beau may end up missing presumed dead too.

 

Will JF bait and switch with Robert and have it be Cora? We have a big time jump in CS to allow for grieving.

As for Tom, I originally thought Laura but now wondering if it will be Adela Graham? Seriously, if I weren't shipping Edith/Bertie, I would be shipping Edith/Laura. Bananas! He coaxed Sybil over the wall. Will he do it again? Still think his character got the short end but hoping we will see a glimpse of something.

[cissyboo1]

 

Will JF bait and switch with Robert and have it be Cora? We have a big time jump in CS to allow for grieving.

It would be my dream for this to happen, not because I dislike Cora, but because then Robert could remarry and have a son-thereby knocking Mary out of her position as "mother of the heir"!

[Nellie]

I am still certain that it will be the dowager's funeral.

I hope Carson is retired. But, poor Mrs. Hughes will have to spend her golden years with that cantankerous, old man.

I also hope that Thomas will have replaced him as Butler.

Is there a possibility that Michael Gregson will return?

I'm sure we will see how cozy it is at the estate with Mary, Henry and BFF Tom. Will Tom snuggle with them in bed at night too? Or will he be sitting in a chair next to the bed, cheering them on and giving them encouragement and advice as they try to conceive a child? Sorry.... Can you tell that I'm bitter? I'm still pissed about Tom's storyline this series.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Nellie

[SusanSunflower]

How solid is the information that the Christmas Special will be 2 years from the end of S6E8? 

 

Everyone -- wanted and/or expected Fellowes to rise to the occasion in E8, but Mary's less than ecstatic marriage is a serious damper ... to which can be added so many unresolved plot threads, most obvious Edith and Marigold ... but also (and the list goes on and on) ... Changes made in two years can cover a lot of ground, but they can't add character/plot development -- only factoids -- Bates and Anna now have a toddler, George and Sybbie and Marigold are 2 years older ... a stray character may have died, been mourned and their death accepted...  Room in E8 to add Pratt and Patmore "business" but not enough to properly dispose of Thomas ' future or Edith's love life ... "Suprises" and "wow finishes" may well end up looking like magic wand maneuvers, rather than clever story-telling ...

 

If Edith and Bertie are actually to be shown getting married in the Christmas Special that means they apparently did not reconcile and wed in the intervening 2 years .... or Bertie has been wooing her for 2 years and is finally taking her to the altar.... feh. If the show were continuing I might be amused to find that Henry's a dreadful lush and bad-in-all-ways husband ... but I doubt that would make him interesting and I'm beyond wanting Mary to "pay for her sins" ...  will she have one or two small wailing babies in tow? 

I'd love for Bates and Anna and Mrs. Patmore and Daisy and Carson and Mrs. Hughes-Carson to have all moved on to new lives ... even if the idea that all of them magically have the money to become "small business owners" rankles ... Thomas should have an equally nice nest egg via savings and theft and blackmail. ... oh nevermnd. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[MissLucas]

My wishlist for the downstairs folks I care about: Barrow should sit down, write his juicy tell-all memoirs (Death comes to the Virginal Boudoir), cash in big time and then spend his days between the Cote d'Azur, Paris and Berlin . Mrs Hughes should over-polish the staircase in the cottage and then spend the rest of her days with Mrs Patmore running the B&B (clearly Mrs Patmore's niece is not up to the job).

[RedWolf]

So Granny is my only hope for Tom to come back to himself. Even after all the spoilers and promo pics I still think that Brary is a go. Too much time has been invested into Tom and Mary together for it to come to nothing.  We know Julian Fellowes can write a believable love story (Rose/Atticus, Edith/Bertie, Mary/Matthew, and Sybil/Tom) and yet he is just not doing it so far with Henry Talbot and Mary. If Talbot is endgame that does not equal happiness and resolution in my books. I would rather have Mary single and Tom (maybe) with the editor than Mary with Henry and Tom single.

 

This is what I think or want to happen in episode 8 (this is not in any order and I will most likely be horribly wrong)

 

The Family is enjoying time with the children when Henry Talbot comes in. (Mary does not look happy about whoever walked in, in those pics) He gets invited to dinner (because the Crawley's are good hosts) and after dinner Henry accuses Mary of breaking up with him because of his prospects (instead of cars) which gets construed by Mary as "grubby little gold digger" which has Henry looking confused because men are clueless as to how their comments sound. They don't get back together at this point. (if they ever do)

 

Isobel and Lord Merton get married. Mary is a part of their wedding in some way. (as the Matron of honor, bridesmaid, whatever they called it back then.) I also predict Isobel has Robert or Tom give her away.

 

Tom gets into a fight with Mary about Talbot and blurts out about Marigold. Mary then confronts Edith about Marigold and they have their big fight in which insults are thrown across the room, then Edith tells Mary that she is too stupid and stuck up to see that Tom is in love with her. ok that last bit is just a dream of this Brary shipper.

 

Tom writes to Granny to help him with getting Mary and Talbot together, but instead of coming back to help him with his plan she comes back to whack some sense into his head. Because of this Granny realizes that the Family would fall apart without her so she needs to stay around a little longer.

 

Edith and Bertie have a falling out over Marigold but they get back together in the end.

 

Lady Shackleton and Henry come for Isobel and Lord Merton's reception. Henry makes a last ditch effort to get back with Mary and Mary is like no way jose.

BiB - I actually got right. :) probably not that surprising.

[sark1624]

I think that the CS will start a few months after the E8 maybe Anna already give birth to a healthy baby, in that time 6 o 7 months aprox is resolved some plots the most important being Edith romantic life. Also in that period they are going to show us how wonderful are Mary and Talbot together, and maybe Tom with Talbot starting a bussiness in car, etc. If Bertie returns to the show i think that his mother is going to have some words maybe he is pushing him to marry someone and end with the rumors of that "all Pelham man are gays" (Bertie mentioned that the same family pointed his cousin for being "delicate") and maybe he refused that and comeback to Edith. 

After that first part we can expect another time jump and see how the other plots are resolving by herself, the most interesting are going to be Baxter and Molesley, Thomas position in life, Daisy with Andy, etc. And upstairs maybe Mary pregnant again, Tom dating the editor who works with Edith, etc. 

 

But i think that in the CS Thomas is going to die, all this are going to be see as resolved for him, staying in the Abbey but Peter Coyle returns for Baxter and he dies defending her. Many have spoke about a funeral and in some part they say that Thomas is going to be tragic hero, for that reason that make sense to me because why bring back the Coyle bussiness back to baxter?

[Andorra]

How solid is the information that the Christmas Special will be 2 years from the end of S6E8? 

 

 

It was said at the press launch, that the series would cover the years 1925, 1926 and 1927. We know it ends at New Year's eve 1927, so the CS will probably be mostly in 1926.

 

I assume they will start not too long after this last episode, because we know that 

there is a scene where Tom congratulates Anna on the birth of Baby Bates. It would be weird if he would do that a year after the Baby was born.

. Someone left a page of a script in Bampton when they filmed there in the summer. 

 

The Edith Bertie wedding will be in the winter,so probably very late in the episode. The extras all wore heavy coats and there was fake snow all around.

 

I think if someone is going to die, it could be Violet, but she might as well survive. 

[SusanSunflower]

Thanks -- that would be good news ... because a 2-year gap could create a "magic wand" effect -- where literally any plot or character developed can be "defended" because of the time gap. ... next question -- Is Henry going to need Mary's financial support to keep up with his racing hobby? I gather he isn't bringing "wealth" to the marriage ... but will he then be a drain?  For Tom and Henry to start a motor car business to finance his "hobby" -- i.e. become tradesmen -- might be as great a fall from on-high as as marrying a chauffeur or a middle class solicitor ... yes, it looks like a marriage from hell to me... and I'm very disappointed to hear how little chemistry was seen, romance was written into this "whirlwind" (for Downton) courtship... some mad sexual attraction (which we saw Mary was capable of back with Pamuk) would have gone a long way to make this a happier ending ... 

[MissLucas]

Talbot's career in motor racing is difficult to assess - we have no idea how good a driver he is and if he's working with a car manufacturer or not. If he's good I think he would not drain Downton's finances but he would also not make massive contributions. Here are some aristocratic dudes who could have been used as blueprints for Talbot. Notice how they both have a rather exciting pre-racing biographies, both were pilots in WWI. Why Fellows did not use some of that to give Talbot a bit more of a personality eludes me.

Tim Birkin

Henry Segrave

Edited November 9, 2015 by MissLucas

[SusanSunflower]

Similarly Tom as a chauffeur was responsible for keeping the cars in running order ... but while I remember him tinkering, I don't remember him being a "genius" and -- like his writing and his politics -- his interest in cars was pretty much never mentioned again ... and there have been innovations in the meantime, so his past skills (at whatever level) do not necessarily transfer to him being an "ace mechanic of raceway quality" -- one or the other of them -- preferably both -- should be hellishly clever with up-to-date skills as well ... 

I love the idea of them being terribly clever and having enviable skills ... and a whole circle of friends, acquaintance and even customers from various levels of society, etc. etc. etc. --much, much too.late I'm afraid. 

I guess I was also looking for another very reasonable reason for explain Mary's lack of enthusiasm .. your brand new husband has a hobby that terrifies you and costs a small fortune ... oh, and takes him away from home for days at a time in "manly" and lower-class company ... oh joy, but then I've seen Suspicion about a dozen times and it always terrifies me. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[TheGreenKnight]

I'm just hoping Carson is the one that dies. It'll get the audience tears they want and the added benefit is that Hughes will finally get a happy ending, too.

 

I hope Edith will have a scene talking to Marigold about the fact that she's her real mother. Either before or after she (hopefully) marries Bertie.

[SusanSunflower]

that cinches it -- I'd almost bet on Gregson's return ... so Marigold can be raised by her bio mom and dad -- her "forever parents" in her "forever home" 

 

my local humane society refers to adoptions as placing pets in their  "forever homes" (since so many of them were relinquished  after short stays with their original unprepared adoptive parents ...  I think Fellowes is too much of a social conservative to let Little Marigold grow up with everyone thinking she's adopted ... hence -- magic wand ... 

Edited November 10, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Andorra]

 

Similarly Tom as a chauffeur was responsible for keeping the cars in running order ... but while I remember him tinkering, I don't remember him being a "genius" and -- like his writing and his politics -- his interest in cars was pretty much never mentioned again .

 

Well even the Dowager admitted  he "is a good driver" when Sybil told them that she wouldn't give him up. So Tom obviously stood in high esteem as a chauffeur and the chauffeur was also responsible for the cars.

 

We also heard that he looked over the car of Lady Anstruther when she was stranded at Downton, so obviously he was better  than their new driver (Mr. Stark?).

 

Then we saw him repair Sarah Bunting's car in Season 4 and we saw him fix something at Talbot's car at the race.

 

He also went to Boston to work in his cousin's car rade business so he might have put up some pointers there, too. 

[MissLucas]

It's too bad that riding mechanics disappeared during the 1920's - i.e. mechanics who would ride along in the car, among their duties was also 'massaging the driver's hands'. Sounds like a dream-job for Tom.

[KLovestoShop]

The Twitter universe is up in arms about Edith and the truncated marriage, and fans have been "threatening" JF that he better write a happy ending for Edith in the CS.  JF said he's now working on something for a full length movie, but personally, I hope it doesn't happen because I don't see anything good happening with a movie.  The loose ends should be tied up with the CS and then let Downton go on a lovely retirement.  

 

Isn't it kind of interesting that Mary marries a race car driver, all the while knowing she lost the love of her life in an auto accident?  

[MissLucas]

The twitter 'outrage' plays right into Sir Julian's hands - by snatching away happiness from Lady Edith in the penultimate episode he ensures that plenty of folks will tune in for the CS.

Who should be outraged are not the Lady Edith fans but the Lady Mary fans because her character was denied any substantial growth.

[Avaleigh]

The twitter 'outrage' plays right into Sir Julian's hands - by snatching away happiness from Lady Edith in the penultimate episode he ensures that plenty of folks will tune in for the CS.

Who should be outraged are not the Lady Edith fans but the Lady Mary fans because her character was denied any substantial growth.

Thank you for this. I don't think there's even a 1% chance that Edith won't get her happy ending.

[sark1624]

The problem is: what JF understand for happy ending to Edith?

 

Because for Mary only understand that her life was reduced to the romantic aspect

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't really care if Edith gets her happy ending or not. My greatest wish is that Mary realizes she caved into peer pressure when marrying Talbot and gets a divorce. But that's not going to happen. And a prologue where she realizes her feelings for Evelyn or Tom and they ride off into the sunset. Honestly I'm up for anything that doesn't involve her sticking with Talbot. She can pull a 180, ditch Downton and run off to America for all I care. Anything's better than Talbot. Anything.

I'd even take an ending akin to "The Haunting" (1960s).

I also wish for Anna and Bates' kid to be a boy...and named Norman.

As for my guess on the death...I'll say it's the new puppy. That would be the most tragic thing that could possibly happen in my opion. Isis probably has a grander tombstone than Matthew's or Sybil's anyways, so I can totally see Robert making everyone attend a funeral or a puppy.

No, I'll guess...Mrs. Patmore.

Edited November 12, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[DeccaMitford]

If the death is Henry Talbot in a car crash I will howl with laughter and take back everything I ever said about Julian Fellowes being an awful writer. I want Mary to be a total black widow with six or seven husbands who die in increasingly outlandish scenarios. I hope she marries a twenty-five your old footman when she's seventy. If this show won't commit to actually being good, it should at least go all out on the soapiness.

 

But seriously, I don't expect it to be anyone in the family, if someone does die. Fellowes is already talking about a movie and hoping that Maggie Smith will be involved (Maggie Smith herself seems...less enthused) so I don't think it'll be Violet. My money's on Carson.

 

As for Edith's ending, I highly highly doubt that she and Bertie won't end up married. There was the misplaced program, there have been reports of a wedding scene set in the winter that we haven't seen yet, they apparently filmed at Alnwick Castle, which served as Brancaster last year, Bertie's mother has apparently been cast. It's happening. I suppose it's possible another wrench will be thrown. After all, there were reports of them filming Edith's wedding to Anthony Strallan and that didn't work out, but surely even Fellowes wouldn't have Edith left at the altar twice (though if any writer would, it's him).

People worried about Edith can take comfort in what a terrible writer Fellowes is. Remember when everyone complained that the Mary/Henry love story was obvious and poorly developed, and Uncle Julian couldn't possibly be going where it looked like he was going? He always goes where it looks like he's going.

Edited November 12, 2015 by DeccaMitford

[shipperx]

I actually figure he's going to try to ameliorate the damage done to Mary by having her castigate Bertie thus giving Mary 'credit' for Edith's marriage.

I can't imagine what happens with Talbot, but I'd love it if, other than being 'dashing' , he turns out to be a complete slacker happy to live off the estate and lounging around on Downtown's drawing room sofas.

It will probably be a pregnancy though, because that's a traditional happy ending (though Mary isn't known for her love iof all things maternal. But I don't think Fellowes actually cares whether or not it suits her ).

Edited November 12, 2015 by shipperx

[Andorra]

I'm pretty sure Tom and Henry will partner in a new car business for luxury cars. 

They filmed in a car salon so I think that will probably their new sales room.

.  After the time jump we'll find out they are very successful and Henry will even be able to contribute to the family income. 

 

I hope we will hear that Tom moves into Isobel's house with his new family (he'll marry Laura Edmunds during the time jump in the CS), after Isobel gets married to Lord Merton. 

Edited November 12, 2015 by Andorra

[saki]

I am still worried that Edith won't get a happy ending.  I know the signs all point that way but this thread was full of post after post of people convinced that Tom and Mary was going to happen and that was clearly totally wrong.

[sark1624]

Same here, it would be extremely rare that Bertie and Edith start again and get married, is too ovbius that Mary is the writer´s pet. I bet that the famous winter wedding is going to be Merton with Isobel, with luck maybe Edith and Bertie reconcile but he made that Edith choose stay friend with Bertie and stay with Marigold.  

 

The sad thing is the character of Mary is now only a cartoon, i bet that in the CS she is going to have a wonderful marriage with Talbot, and some stupid sub plot involving a  guest appearance.