NFL Thread

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Yes, sometimes it really is the QB and the HC, but white OCs are routinely given the opportunity to prove that right or wrong well before they've compiled anything close to Bieniemy's resume.

Great article and, speaking to the above, I liked the "Bieniemy remains the best offensive coordinator in the NFL, but keeps getting passed over" section in particular:

Quote

This part of the discussion is tricky, because the offensive coaches hired during this cycle made sense for what teams were looking for. Shane Steichen’s strong approach to the ground game marries well with the Colts’ roster, the Broncos needed a superstar head coach to generate buzz with only Sean Payton fitting the bill, while Carolina were desperate for head coaching experience following Matt Rhule, necessitating Frank Reich.

However, when we go back a year it’s here we really see the disparate nature between how Bieniemy was treated by NFL teams compared to other coaches. In 2022 we saw Josh McDaniels, Mike McDaniel, Nathanial Hackett, Kevin O’Connell and Brian Daboll all land jobs from offensive coordinator positions, and arguably only Daboll had a resume that stood up to Bieniemy’s.

That’s not to say all those coaches are bad. Hell, of that group really only Josh McDaniels and Hackett didn’t deserve getting a chance — but the routine scrutiny Bieniemy is put under simply doesn’t apply to other coaches. It’s as if overwhelming justification is made for why Bieniemy isn’t worth hiring, instead of the obvious: Nobody is a better offensive mind in the NFL.

I also like shooting this down right off the bat and then moving on:

Quote

Every time questions are raised about Bieniemy not getting a chance there are nebulous, third-hand rumors about him not having a good relationship with players in the lock room. Much of this is based off an argument with Patrick Mahomes, which Mahomes himself downplayed and brushed off.

When it comes to Bieniemy it’s as if people have never heard of players and coaches having friction before.

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Bastet

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

As a Steeler fan I was too young to enjoy it when they were that team. 

If you think about it there really hasn't been too many dynasties since the merger.  There was the 70s Steelers.  The 80s 49ers.  The 90s Cowboys and then the Patriots.  There have been more teams that have been consistently good for long period of times.  The late 90s Broncos.  The Packers. The Colts.  The Bills.  The Chiefs I think fall into that category.  But at what point do we call them a dynasty?

 

I'd say the Packers in the 60s could be considered a dynasty as well.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Irlandesa

[Carey]

I'd say Green Bay was top notch amongst all the other teams in that era.

Meanwhile, there are some Islanders fans (nobody on here) that would say there aren't any other dynasties in sports since no one won "four" in a row, yet for "some" reason omitted Boston

[mojoween]

I’m confused about Aaron Rodgers’s trip into the darkness.  Max Kellerman pondered “how long should needy teams wait?” but didn’t Rodgers sign a three-year deal last year?  Aren’t his options Packers or retire?

[cambridgeguy]

58 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I’m confused about Aaron Rodgers’s trip into the darkness.  Max Kellerman pondered “how long should needy teams wait?” but didn’t Rodgers sign a three-year deal last year?  Aren’t his options Packers or retire?

Couldn't he force a trade?  The Packers would almost certainly get a first round pick from a mediocre team, so that beats telling Rodgers to enjoy his retirement.  I think Tom Brady has skewed expectations for what a 40 year old QB can do.

[merylinkid]

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

while Carolina were desperate for head coaching experience following Matt Rhule, necessitating Frank Reich.

So they skipped right over their interim guy.   Who took a team that was SOOO BAD the HC had to be fired midseason and got them to winning, with a sniff at the playoffs.      He was head coach of the Cardinals.    So he has the experience.  

Its not just Bienemy, its guys like Steve Wilks too.    This cycle it was "when is Ken Whisenhut going to get another chance at HC."   How about when is Wilks going to.

And going back to the line about White OCs getting all the hype.   How about white college coaches.   Chip Freaking Kelly, they were wondering what his Hall of Fame speech would be like DURING HIS FIRST PRESEASON.    How did that work out?   All the hot college coaches that are hired and then flame out because better to get that college guy who has never worked at the pro level than hire the best offensive mind in the NFL.

[Carey]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Couldn't he force a trade?  The Packers would almost certainly get a first round pick from a mediocre team, so that beats telling Rodgers to enjoy his retirement.  I think Tom Brady has skewed expectations for what a 40 year old QB can do.

IIRC, Aaron may have a no-trade clause in addition to being able to get out of his contract to go to a place he desired based off of the last deal he signed a year ago to stay one more year in Green Bay

[Carey]

Someone on one of the sports shows I tune into just asked a question that's on the infamous "Death is not an option" scale.

"Which would you rather do: Spend 4 days in darkness with Aaron Rodgers OR record a TikTok video with JuJu everyday for a year?"

 

Well, I guess I can't wait but will have to wait 7 months before the first meaningful game of professional football takes place!

[bluegirl147]

The question is how much more does Aaron Rogers have in the tank?  Is he going to be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning and do well on another team or is he going to be Brett Favre with the Jets?  My question is does Rogers want out of GB or does GB want to move away from Rogers?

[Carey]

7 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

The question is how much more does Aaron Rogers have in the tank?  Is he going to be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning and do well on another team or is he going to be Brett Favre with the Jets?  My question is does Rogers want out of GB or does GB want to move away from Rogers?

I think it's a combination of both.  However, I do think there is a part of both that would be better off staying together for 2023.  The Packers are a little more confident in Love than before, whereas people need QBs.  I do think the Jets would work.  On the other hand, I don't think so due to New York's schedule (they play the AFC West AND the NFC East in addition to Buffalo times 2).

IMO, Green Bay will win the division if Rodgers returns.  Minnesota probably can't get any better.  Though Detroit is decent, they don't have a history of winning when it counts

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, Carey said:

IIRC, Aaron may have a no-trade clause in addition to being able to get out of his contract to go to a place he desired based off of the last deal he signed a year ago to stay one more year in Green Bay

I don't know if he had a no trade clause, but the way his deal is structured essentially functions as a no trade clause, because the Packers can't make a trade this year without Rodgers restructuring his contract.

He has a gigantic amount of guaranteed salary and prorated signing bonus, so trading him would eat up about $68 million of 2023 cap space for the Packers in 2023. (He only counts $31M against the cap if he plays this year.)

Retiring would also hit the Packers with a lot of money against the cap.

[NUguy514]

6 hours ago, Carey said:

Someone on one of the sports shows I tune into just asked a question that's on the infamous "Death is not an option" scale.

"Which would you rather do: Spend 4 days in darkness with Aaron Rodgers OR record a TikTok video with JuJu everyday for a year?"

The denouements of both scenarios would be my murdering both of those twits in very spectacular fashion, so I would argue that death is the only option – for Rodgers and JuJu.

[mojoween]

WHY would Eric Bienemy leave the stability of Kansas City for the chaos of Washington to do the same thing?

[bluegirl147]

22 minutes ago, mojoween said:

WHY would Eric Bienemy leave the stability of Kansas City for the chaos of Washington to do the same thing?

I wondered the same thing.  Money? The guarantee he gets the head coaching job if things don't work out with the current head coach?

So who is going to be the Chiefs new OC?

[merylinkid]

Apparently he has had a series of one year deals in KC.  Which is good in one way because then each season he is free to explore opportunities (he could always take an HC job even with a long term contract because its a step  up).  The Commanders deal is a long term contract.   It also gives him more responsibility because Rivera prefers defense.   Andy Reid was an offense guy.

But other than that, OOOOH BOOY.    Why would you go to this dysfunctional team?   Surely there were other teams that are not batshit insane he could have gotten the same thing from?

[roamyn]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I wondered the same thing.  Money? The guarantee he gets the head coaching job if things don't work out with the current head coach?

So who is going to be the Chiefs new OC?

Also, to get out of Andy Reid’s shadow and prove that he can run an offense.  There have always been questions on how much of KC’s offense was Eric’s and how much was Andy’s.

Also, with Ron Rivera’s health issues he might have a better chance slotting up to the HC job, if there’s no progress on the Commander’s team in 2023.

[Carey]

The biggest wildcard in all of this is a new Washington Commanders ownership group

[Fukui San]

50 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Also, to get out of Andy Reid’s shadow and prove that he can run an offense.  There have always been questions on how much of KC’s offense was Eric’s and how much was Andy’s.

Also, with Ron Rivera’s health issues he might have a better chance slotting up to the HC job, if there’s no progress on the Commander’s team in 2023.

This is the reason. It’s not fair, but Reid and Mahomes receive 99.9% of the credit for the Chiefs offense. At least that’s the excuse we hear. 

[bluegirl147]

22 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

This is the reason. It’s not fair, but Reid and Mahomes receive 99.9% of the credit for the Chiefs offense. At least that’s the excuse we hear. 

Let's see if they stay at the same level with EB no longer there.

[Carey]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Let's see if they stay at the same level with EB no longer there.

More probable than not.  Otherwise they wouldn't have done consecutive one-year deals

[mojoween]

I feel you, Louis 

 

[Irlandesa]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:27 AM, cambridgeguy said:

Couldn't he force a trade?  The Packers would almost certainly get a first round pick from a mediocre team, so that beats telling Rodgers to enjoy his retirement.  I think Tom Brady has skewed expectations for what a 40 year old QB can do.

At this moment in time, I think Green Bay is more ready to move on from Rodgers than Rodgers is ready to move on from them.

Unlike two years ago when it was rumored Rodgers demanded a trade and the GB front office was pretty clear that they weren't even listening to potential deals, the opposite is happening this year.  There have even been reports that that the GM has told others they think it's time to move on from Aaron. 

I don't think they'd force Rodgers out but they're making it very clear they aren't going to bend over backwards to try to keep him the way they did two years ago.  They aren't going to keep his friends around just because they're his friends. It also sounds like they're entertaining trade deals. 

 

 

[mojoween]

Today’s Giants Page-A-Day calendar trivia is that Tim Mara purchased a franchise to found the New York Football Giants in 1925 for 500 dollars.  That is the equivalent of … $8,547.71 today.  I could TOTALLY pull together eight grand to buy a professional sports franchise.

[JTMacc99]

On 2/18/2023 at 7:15 AM, mojoween said:

WHY would Eric Bienemy leave the stability of Kansas City for the chaos of Washington to do the same thing?

Well, Coach Rivera is very well respected around the league, and he's a head coach who came from the defensive side of the ball. So regardless of the clown show that ownership runs in Washington, the head coach is a guy you want to work for as a coach.

So there's that. On the same note, Coach Bieniemy will be for all intents and purposes fully in charge of the offense under Coach Rivera. That's a big change from Kansas City where for all intents and purposes, Andy Reid was in charge of the offense.

 

[Carey]

I can't blame any party here.  It was smart for Eric to bolt from Kansas City, and it would not have made any sense for Andy Reid to forgo running the offense.

Meanwhile, there are people in Pittsburgh that are mad that the Steelers didn't try to go after Eric B.  Like Ron Rivera, Mike Tomlin, another defensive coach, is respected throughout the league.  What's different between Ron and Mike is that Tomlin will take over the offensive side of the game as opposed to letting someone do what they do.

So while Washington's culture isn't as great as Pittsburgh, the chance is there for success.  Especially if a new ownership group takes over.  I do get the thing in Pittsburgh since Flores went there, which helped get him back on the map toward a chance or another chance.  It would've been a demotion as a Steelers offensive assistant.

Not a Washington fan, but I do hope it works out down there

[SuprSuprElevated]

An injury-prone QB

[Carey]

5 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

An injury-prone QB

The injuries each of the past two seasons are a fact, but that's where it ends, period.

Jackson has never been hurt throughout his career even with his game.  This goes back to college and HS and beyond.  The time he missed was due to clinching the Top seed in 2019 and for testing positive in 2020.  The injuries started to play out each of the past 2 years because his game & the offense are structured in a way where he's at risk.

The Ravens are terrible without Lamar.  That is a fact; they are a different team.  That's the leverage.  However, Baltimore has a point (or two) for not paying him like Watson.  With the old OC out and a new one in, the 2019 AFC North champions can be better.  I think it's a fair deal since the cases can go both ways.

If they run the offense like they have in the past under Greg Roman, they are in trouble.  However, they need to update it to add more threats & other key players to succeed

[JTMacc99]

So I'm listening to the radio this morning, and during the sports update I learned that new Colts head coach Shane Steichen has chosen Jim Bob Cooter to be his offensive coordinator. 

It's going to take me a minute to deal with that name. 

[AimingforYoko]

22 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

It's going to take me a minute to deal with that name.

I'm sure he's just a good ol' boy, never meanin' no harm.

[JTMacc99]

On 2/21/2023 at 6:55 AM, Carey said:

The Ravens are terrible without Lamar.  That is a fact; they are a different team.  That's the leverage.  However, Baltimore has a point (or two) for not paying him like Watson. 

No team should be offering up a contract like the idiot Browns gave Watson. 

To anybody.

I'm listening right now to guys who have some connections in the league, and it sure sounds like Jackson is countering whatever the Ravens are offering with MORE guaranteed money than Watson got (which was $230M over five years.)

I think the Ravens are fully aware that they are a better team with Jackson, but they can just go ahead and take their chances with offering him the regular tag.

Jackson can either play this year for $32M, or he can sit out and not collect that $32M which the Ravens can use for everything else. Or maybe some other team is as crazy as the Browns and will give Jackson what he wants, and the Ravens will get a pair of first round picks in exchange for Jackson when they don't match that offer.

[bluegirl147]

42 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

No team should be offering up a contract like the idiot Browns gave Watson. 

Leave it to the Browns to fuck things up and not even be on the field.

I knew that contract was going to have ramifications for other teams.  

43 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

Jackson can either play this year for $32M, or he can sit out and not collect that $32M which the Ravens can use for everything else.

Will the Ravens know what he is going to do before the draft? Might be good to know if they are going to need a QB.

[JTMacc99]

2 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Will the Ravens know what he is going to do before the draft? Might be good to know if they are going to need a QB.

They have like less than two weeks before having to decide on whether or not to use the tag. So they'll have plenty of time between then and the draft at the end of April to know whether or not they're going to be in the QB market draft day. 

They're too good of a team to not bring in a veteran before the draft should the Jackson negotiations collapse in a way that they HAVE to move on.

[Lamb18]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:15 AM, mojoween said:

WHY would Eric Bienemy leave the stability of Kansas City for the chaos of Washington to do the same thing?

Maybe he likes a challenge.

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, Lamb18 said:

Maybe he likes a challenge.

He did say something just like that in his press conference. 

On the one hand, I really wish him well. He's a good coach, and I'd like to see him shine outside of the shadows of Reid and Mahomes. 

On the other hand, I have a permanent desire for the Washington franchise to always be terrible. 

Speaking of emerging from the darkness, once his eyes adjust to the light again, I'm hoping that Rodgers hurries up and declares what he wants to do for the upcoming season. Never ending speculation about that guy has become very tiresome over the last couple years.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

Speaking of emerging from the darkness, once his eyes adjust to the light again, I'm hoping that Rodgers hurries up and declares what he wants to do for the upcoming season. Never ending speculation about that guy has become very tiresome over the last couple years.

I mean he's just following Packers QB tradition, right? 🤪

[Carey]

I guess if Aaron is following Packers QB tradition: if it's on point, his retirement is really close.

As for Eric Bienemy, while I still think he would've been better off in KC over Washington, I would support a move to Washington before Carolina or Philadelphia.  With about a dozen teams in the league led by defensive coaches at HC, it would make sense for his decision.  No one would give him credit in Philly or Carolina with offensive HC.

As for Eric's replacement.  It is next man up, as Matt Nagy has returned to his spot as the KC OC.

And speaking of returns, back to Denver for Vance Joseph.  Might be odd to return to a team where you had a higher position, but it's a new ownership group and a proven HC in Sean Payton

[Carey]

You wanna feel old?  The following may or may not get the job done, but if you use the number 34 and count backwards in terms of years, you'll get a man who owns a team worth $7,640,000,000 after a purchase of the same team that was between $100 Million and $200 Million on the number

[mojoween]

Has anyone read “Playmakers” by Mike Florio?  I don’t know why he ever created Pro Football Talk, because he really seems to hate the NFL.

[Carey]

Washington releases Carson Wentz

For a second I was surprised that he was only there for one season, until I remembered that he helped propel Pittsburgh into the 2021-2022 NFL postseason.  Didn't help that Indianapolis can't do anything in Jacksonville.

The Commanders, who also released Safety Bobby McCain, save over $26 Million against the salary cap

[JTMacc99]

13 hours ago, Carey said:

The Commanders, who also released Safety Bobby McCain, save over $26 Million against the salary cap

There should be quite a few more veterans finding their way back into free agency as teams need to get under the cap or just want to free up money for the start of free agency the next couple weeks. For example the Saints are perpetually a zillion dollars over the cap at this point in the year, so they'll be up to all sorts of maneuvering. At some point, I would think they're going to do a painful purge as opposed to continually kicking the can down the road. 

The Giants had to purge a whole bunch last year, so it'll be a little easier for them to operate this year. They'll likely release Golladay and a couple other guys, but no really shocking or painful moves.

Once they sort out Jones and Barkley, I would assume they'll talk with Leonard Williams and Adoree Jackson about extensions. They're both very good players in the last year of their deals. It would help spread out some 2023 cap money and help the team by keeping them on the roster. 

[AimingforYoko]

Looks like the Saints win the Carr sweepstakes:

 

[Irlandesa]

6 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Looks like the Saints win the Carr sweepstakes:

Was there a Carr sweepstakes? 

[Kip Hackman]

Apparently the Panthers kicked the tires on Carr (no pun intended). Glad it didn't go any further than that. Need to find someone in the draft.

That being said, this basically puts the Saints as the division favorite, since nobody else seems to have a QB. 

 

 

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Was there a Carr sweepstakes? 

He was generally considered the best of the QBs available in free agency this offseason, so within that context, yes. Of course there have been more exciting slates of FA QBs in other years...

[Irlandesa]

20 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

He was generally considered the best of the QBs available in free agency this offseason, so within that context, yes. Of course there have been more exciting slates of FA QBs in other years...

I think my snarky response about Carr comes from the fact that it feels like the competition for Carr was soft.  He met with the Jets, but it seemed like their decision was to wait to see what Rodgers would do before offering for Carr.  And Carolina certainly didn't appear to go all in. 

For what it's worth, even though Rodgers would be the biggest QB free agent since Brady, I'd say the same thing about him unless more teams are interested in getting him.  Last season, I would've described it as a sweepstakes but not this season--or at least not yet.

[Black Knight]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

For what it's worth, even though Rodgers would be the biggest QB free agent since Brady, I'd say the same thing about him unless more teams are interested in getting him.  Last season, I would've described it as a sweepstakes but not this season--or at least not yet.

Rodgers won't be a FA this season, even if he decides he's not going to retire but doesn't want to play for the Packers anymore. Then he'd be traded.

It will be interesting to see what price the Packers set should that happen. And if Rodgers isn't willing to commit to playing at least two more seasons for his new team, that will cut down on the teams willing to trade significant assets for what could be a one-year rental.

[merylinkid]

Carr goes to the Saints which makes it unlikely they keep Winston.   If you think the interest in Carr is soft wait until you see the interest in Winston.   Which makes me happy.  Guy should never have been in the League.

[Carey]

Winston was a former first overall pick.  Sure the season that preceded his draft wasn't great, but the year before that 2014 season was phenomenal.  Though I have to say that it may have been overrated since he was part of a very stacked team.

Jameis was built & NFL ready.  As far as the opinion that he should "never have been in the league"  If that's the case then  I have to disagree.  If that's the case, then NFL as a whole should be done away with, period.

Now, I don't think he has been a very good player during his NFL career.  Really, he wasn't good, period.  But IMO, he was more than qualified to be in the league.

Some of his actions off the field raise questions, but that's a very small sample of many people before and after him.  As far as his career going forward, I can agree that it's over for him

Edited March 7, 2023 by Carey
Edited for some clarity

[mojoween]

Why is this a thing?!?  THIS SHOULD NOT BE A THING.

 

[bluegirl147]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/baltimore-ravens-send-a-definitive-message-to-lamar-jackson-with-non-exclusive-franchise-tag-200525944.html

So which teams might give him what he wants?