S01.E06: The Dating Game

[Tara Ariano]

Cait comes to realize how hard it can be to date a trans woman after hearing Candis talk about her relationship history, but that doesn't deter Cait from trying to get Candis to believe in love again. Meanwhile, Jenny Boylan wants to know who has caught Cait's eye.

[nexxie]

Very interesting episode - Candis and Cait are fun together, as girlfriends or more.

[iwasish]

Sorry Cait but not everyone can afford $100k Hummers or Range Rovers that get replaced every few months. There's nothing wrong with a Volvo.

[BostonBlonde]

I don't know...I think I was more opened minded BEFORE this show.

Edited August 31, 2015 by BostonBlonde

[iwasish]

I don't know...I think I was more opened minded BEFORE this show.

I thought I was the only one feeling that way. I'm wondering if Cait is beginning to regret being so public.

[Veruca Salt]

Few thoughts on this episode:

 

Did Jennifer Boylan actually say that Caitlyn was a great parent? 

 

Do you think the editors read the forums? I noticed that Cait was eating with closed mouth and seemed to be listening more when at the dinner and at the camp. 

 

 

[Maya]

I thought it was boring. Everything Candis said sounded fake. I didn't buy a word of it.

[iwasish]

Little awkward when Caits assistants BF basically said he'd dump her if he learned she was trans. Cait did not look happy. But at least he was honest, I think most guys would.

[Kromm]

Few thoughts on this episode:

 

Did Jennifer Boylan actually say that Caitlyn was a great parent? 

 

Do you think the editors read the forums? I noticed that Cait was eating with closed mouth and seemed to be listening more when at the dinner and at the camp. 

I suppose it's possible some last minute editing was done.  But the initial selection of shots of course had to be months previous to anyone discussing it here. The shots had to at least EXIST, I'm saying, to have been selected.

 

I do wonder if Jennifer Boylan and Candis Cayne ever regret how glowy they are about Caitlyn Jenner on this show, then again since I think we've seen them in print since still glowing, they've at least had to stick by drinking the Kardashian Kool Aid to some degree. 

[iwasish]

Don't forget there's still the possiblity of season two and Candis needs a new car.

[Fostersmom]

Um, did I misunderstand, or did Cait define a "normal" relationship as one woman, one man? WTF? 

 

Candis and JBo are playing the media game, but it's kinda obvious the African American woman, sorry, I can't remember her name, is way over Cait's "ideas" and it makes me kinda love her. When Cait says something particularly stupid, she always makes her displeasure know. 

 

Damn, Cait's hair looked so raggedy this episode. I did like the black top she had on at the end, but it was mismatched with jeans. Even worse, the "babes", vaseline lens, animal prints, and open mouth chewing made encore appearances in this episode. It's like a drinking game at this point. 

[Cosmic Muffin]

Yeah, regardless of gender, Cait is deeply shallow.

 

I hope Chandi, Jen Richards, Blossom, Kate B., J-Bo and all the rest get new cars too! Now Cait is like Oprah!

Edited August 31, 2015 by Cosmic Muffin

[Cosmocrush]

I don't know...I think I was more opened minded BEFORE this show.

LOL.  Maybe it's all that Kartrashian stink all over Caitlyn. 

 

Little awkward when Caits assistants BF basically said he'd dump her if he learned she was trans.  Cait did not look happy. But at least he was honest, I think most guys would.

I know!  That was awkward as hell!  On camera and in front of Caitlyn, he probably should have lied but I think this is a subject that can freak some guys out.  I thought it was a good segment though and I'm glad they left it in. 

Candis and JBo are playing the media game, but it's kinda obvious the African American woman, sorry, I can't remember her name, is way over Cait's "ideas" and it makes me kinda love her. When Cait says something particularly stupid, she always makes her displeasure know. 

Chandi.  I can't help it, I love it everytime Caitlyn wide-eyes something someone said and Chandi answers, "Yes Cait."  and "Yes, Cait, that happens all the time."  

 

ETA:  When Candis was talking Cait about the tough times trying to work and then the recession hitting I couldn't help but think those were the very same years Caitlyn's bank account started overflowing thanks to Kris and KUWTK.   Hey Cait, get Candi's car fixed for her, or better yet buy her a new one!   It may be just a job for Candis (hard to tell since she's an actress) but I think she and Caitlyn do have fun together and I wouldn't be surprised if Cait considers Candis a real friend. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[princelina]

Um, did I misunderstand, or did Cait define a "normal" relationship as one woman, one man? WTF?

 

My take on that whole conversation was that she would like to be flirted with by a man like she's seen other women get her whole life.  I didn't even think that she was saying she would be attracted to the guy, just that she would like him to treat her like that because it would make her feel feminine and pretty.  And she knows that's never going to happen to her - I thought she just seemed kind of wistful like you get about something you'd like but know you'll never have.

 

She was really out and about this episode - even driving a Lamborghini right out of her driveway - where were the paps? ;)

[HumblePi]

My understanding of Caitlyn Jenner's sexuality gets more and more confusing to me with each episode. She wants to be viewed by men as a woman and she feels like a woman. So where does that lead us to discover what her sexuality is? Just because she wants to be viewed by men as a woman that doesn't mean she wants to have sex with men. Or, does it? It's not easy getting Caitlyn to admit to what her preference is. The majority of trans-women prefer sex with men. At least that's what I've read. Is Caitlyn attracted sexually to Candis because Candis is male by birth or because Candis is attractive as a female.

 

See why I'm so damned confused that I want to give it all up entirely and stop watching to try to figure that out?

 

*I edit to comment about the Lamborghini which I had briefly forgotten about. I'm a 'car person' meaning I know a lot about car makes and models and the prices of cars. I found the Lamborghini scenes to be a little ostentatious and unnecessary. We are all aware that Caitlyn is wealthy and can afford to buy a dozen Lamborghini's if she wanted to instead of 'borrowing' it for a few days. Watching Candis and Caitlyn with their hair blowing in the wind driving happily along the Pacific Coast Highway brought instant memories of the recent traffic accident involving Caitlyn that resulted in the death of a woman. I found the Lamborghini scenes to be not only insensitive and conspicuous but also a reminder to everyone that Caitlyn is very unlike any other person wanting to transition. She is tremendously wealthy and privileged. Caitlyn's new transgender friends are all being paid a salary for appearing on her show and I wonder how many would be around her if they weren't paid performers.

Edited September 1, 2015 by HumblePi

[TomGirl]

Maybe I'm just gullible but I actually do believe Caitlyn when she says she has no idea where she'll end up in terms of sexual preference. At age 65 and taking all those female hormones, her sex drive probably isn't her top priority right now anyway.

[Kromm]

To be fair, HumblePi, Caitlyn was not vague in saying at one point that she'd get the additional surgeries if she was going to go forward with having sex with men, right?

 

If her whole transition wasn't at warp speed and for the cameras I suppose even someone as confused as Caitlyn Jenner might find some clarity. As things stand? Who knows.

[HumblePi]

Caitlyn said in the last episode that she wants to help make transgenders 'normal' in the eyes of other people. She doesn't want transgenders to stand out or appear unusual and to be accepted by people. I beleive it's mostly for herself, she doesn't want to 'stand out' and be considered a freak by some people. And yes, people have and will call transgenders 'freaks', it's just a fact of life that's not changing any time soon. I doubt that is every going to happen in her lifetime at least and maybe a few lifetimes. People are always going to look at the transgender community with a side-eye because people in general will not be as understanding as Caitlyn hopes everyone will become.

Edited August 31, 2015 by HumblePi

[Artsda]

I don't know I thought Caitlyn understood more before than she does in this episode. Her "normal" conversation just made me confused, if she wanted to be "normal" as she was describing a hetero guy walking up to a hetero girl on the street. Jennifer B seemed taken back by the whole conversation there also, like she wanted to shake Caitlyn or say "you don't get it." 

 

Candis said that getting a new car was not in her budget right now, I guess she'll get one with the money from this show. It also should show how unique Caitlyn is and while doing something nice like probably calling up the family car dealer (Calabasas Luxury Motorcars which Scott is somehow owns a stake in) to get a new car for a few days is nice. Caitlyn learning and adapting shouldn't be based on playing fairy godmother and throwing her money around.  It just may segregate her more as not the same as the other casted friends on this show.

 

This episode just made me more confused as to where Caitlyn is. It's like she rushed this so much for tv and awards, now she's back tracking.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Artsda

[possibilities]

People are always going to look at the transgender community with a side-eye because people in general will not be as understanding as Caitlyn hopes everyone will become.

It sounds like you think it's not important to try to combat that. My feeling is that a lot of progress has been made in a lot of areas, and it only happens when people work for it. So, wanting it and working for it is all you can do, when being accepted is the goal. There was a time not that long ago when people hid all kinds of things that are now much more accepted. And some people have always accepted things that others have not. Just because there's a dominant view that certain things are deserving of the side-eye doesn't mean it has to be that way and always will be.

 

I thought it was really sad when Cait said: "Haven't I proven myself yet?" I know this show is canned and scripted and designed to manipulate, but I do think there is a way she is being asked by everyone from the general public to the trans inner circle to prove something. No one wants to live like that, and she is partly responsible because of her choice to live her life on camera. But I think it's a sad way to live. The whole thing makes me sad.

 

RE dating, I think the thing to do is socialize with people who share your values. It limits the pool considerably,  but no one is going to be well-matched with anyone who does NOT share their values, so face it and get on with things. I say this as someone with a disability that most people find very challenging to deal with. It has limited my options in many ways. But it's also weeded out a lot of superficial assholes, and the more I love myself, the less I want to hook some idiot who doesn't value me for who I am. A desire to find someone you think of as "more normal" or "somehow legitimizing" speaks to a lack of self-acceptance, and a way of buying into the prevailing notion that there's something wrong and undesireable about you. I know it's hard to maintain your sense of self in the face of clamorous rejection, but it also builds character and once you find your way to people who do embrace you, it's real and not just a manifestation of your insecurity or a constant stress to live up to. Candis talking about putting up with abusive crap is something I so recognize from so many of the disabled people I know, who think they can't do better, or who make excuses because "nobody's perfect" but at the end of the day, there's no substitute for love, and settling for BS is never going to meet the need.

[bagatelle]

She was really out and about this episode - even driving a Lamborghini right out of her driveway - where were the paps? ;)

 

it was only about a month ago that the Lamborghini was papped being taken into Cait's driveway. They are filming and editing close to air time, aren't they.

[Kromm]

I thought it was really sad when Cait said: "Haven't I proven myself yet?" I know this show is canned and scripted and designed to manipulate, but I do think there is a way she is being asked by everyone from the general public to the trans inner circle to prove something. No one wants to live like that, and she is partly responsible because of her choice to live her life on camera. But I think it's a sad way to live. The whole thing makes me sad.

Indeed it's sad. But not in a "I feel for her" way for me. It's more of a "isn't it sad that she just doesn't GET it". That she's this totally deluded person who has no ability to realize that you don't just wake up one morning, have a transition, put yourself on TV with lots off bought and paid for "friends", rush through steps (and on TV) in weeks that countless others take years (and in private) to do, buy media declaring you a hero, and then get to act upset like your outlay of cash, (a little) time, and self-declared leadership hasn't worked out like you planned.

People don't have bigger expectations of Caitlyn Jenner than what she herself has trumpeted. If they want her to prove something, it's probably because she's chosen a path with no breathing room at all. A little patience, a little less greed (and I include greed for publicity in that, not just monetary greed), and less suspect motives, and this would all make much more sense. Both to her and to us.

[Zuleikha]

I don't understand the common assertion that Caitlyn is rushing her transition. She's in her 60s! She's been wanting to transition most of her life... she made her first attempt at transitioning something like two decades ago! How is she rushing? What is she rushing? 

[Kromm]

I don't understand the common assertion that Caitlyn is rushing her transition. She's in her 60s! She's been wanting to transition most of her life... she made her first attempt at transitioning something like two decades ago! How is she rushing? What is she rushing?

Not the surgeries, don't think that's it.

The thought process. The expectations. The consideration of her own new role in the world. Her feelings and analysis on how others are reacting to the process. Her decisions on her sexuality.

She said herself (at the Espys) that she had never even TALKED to a Transgender person until recent weeks. WEEKS. That means she didn't talk to any before she started her transition. From what I understand that's well... unusual.

And then to have the gall to do that "what do I have to do to prove myself" thing? One flaw is thinking she even HAS to prove herself, but if so it's because she willingly put herself in a position and on a schedule which required it.

[Cosmocrush]

I don't understand the common assertion that Caitlyn is rushing her transition. She's in her 60s! She's been wanting to transition most of her life... she made her first attempt at transitioning something like two decades ago! How is she rushing? What is she rushing? 

Maybe being on TV five minutes after she came out?  

 

But I agree, waiting until her mid-60s to come out is hardly rushing it.  This is something she's lived with her entire life.  I have no doubt she did her research.  I get why she had to do all the physical stuff at once: 1) I imagine at 60 she is very aware that time is short  and 2) because of her celebrity the paps would have torn her apart.  Look how awful it was when she was just spotted leaving the doctors office.  Caitlyn's hair, nails, surgeries, etc. were all reported constantly.    

 

And she's giving herself a crash course in being a trans woman in America with some pretty impressive teachers to supply the cliff notes.  Cait doesn't have 20 or 30 years to learn everything her friends learned the hard way.   There was a guy at GLAAD  that said he had transitioned 18 years ago and often still learned something new every time he met a new member of the community because it is such a diverse community.   I don't blame Caitlyn for using her resources to try and get up to speed from the comfort of Malibu.  She wants to enjoy the last chapter of her life, and that's okay. 

 

Plus, I think some (but not all) of her naivete is for the show - she wants the show to be 'educational' for the viewers as well as for herself.  Or at least that's what I think she tells herself. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[CousinAmy]

I also thought of the accident when Caitlyn was speeding away in her sports car. (I'd rather have a Volvo, by the way. They are super safe and nice looking little sedans. In the "last chapter of my life" safety is more of a concern.)

Caitlyn was no going above the speed limit but was driving too fast for the road conditions, which seems to be not illegal. Still, the fact of being the cause of someone's death, even accidentally, does not seem to have any effect in her life. It's like that took place in an alternate universe, one called reality, rather than "reality."

[editorgrrl]

The very best part of this episode for me was the segment at the trans summer camp. We've seen there is seemingly endless heartache and discrimination in the trans community, and I liked seeing another example of kids with the freedom to identify who they are (gender-wise) and embracing that person. As many strides that the trans community has made in social justice and legislation, it's going to be this next generation that will hopefully see it through.

Me, too. Second best was JBo telling Caitlyn, "You don't need a man to make you a woman." She's right: "Cait is not going to find someone until she looks, and she can't look until she accepts herself."

That's not "trans stuff" (as Cait might call it)—it's human stuff. But like Veruca Salt upthread, I can't believe JBo called Cait a great parent.

Worst part: starting the show with weird, tight shots of the waiter's hand. It really looked like the "man hands" scenes on Seinfeld.

Edited August 31, 2015 by editorgrrl

[iwasish]

Ushering Candis into the "parking lot" with all Caits expensive cars circled around and then telling her that she pulled some strings and got her a Lamborghini for a few days as a "loaner" was so tacky. If you want to be kind to a friend, loan her one of the many cars you have. Don't mock her ten yr old Volvo either, she drives what she can afford, be happy she's not on the government dole and living large on your tax money Cait.

[bichonblitz]

Cait really doesn't have a clue. Having dinner at Zackary's house, listening to the stories of how difficult it is to find a meaningful relationship when you are trans and how lonely it can be. Cait sat there listening as if this thought has never crossed her mind! What the hell has she been thinking about for the past 60 yrs? This is what I find so frustrating about her. She finds it difficult to articulate any of her thoughts and feelings. She was a babbling idiot when Jennifer Boylan was trying to get her to look deep inside herself, you could see Jen was losing patience.  

 

I liked Candis up until....last night.  Having a heart to heart with Caitlin saying how in control she has always been all of her life. Then she goes in to this sob story about how all of her relationships have been abusive, red flags everywhere, yet she can never get the guts to leave the relationships. That does not sound like a person in control of their life. 

[Adiba]

I also tend to think that some of Cait's naiveté is for the show. I can' t imagine that she has not at least read about some of the issues prior to transitioning. It would seem unlikely that she would rush into surgeries and coming out publicly before talking to other transgender people and counseling with professionals who specialize in that area (?) She does come off as clueless sometimes.

The relationship issues talked about are pretty much human stuff, as editogrrl said. Apart from the obvious transgender challenges (transphobia), people of all identities can relate to many of the things said--accept yourself, don't settle for someone who doesn't respect you and treat you well, etc.

Caitlyn getting upset that her answer on the dating survey read as "masculine" stood out to me. She is who she is--transitioning doesn't automatically change who you are inside. If she was analytical before, she likely will continue to be. Why feed into the same societal gender binary stereotypes that you are simultaneously trying to combat?

Edited to add-- I also snorted when Jen said that Caitlyn was a good parent--isn't that a determination some of her children might find debatable?

Edited August 31, 2015 by Adiba

[Kromm]

I also tend to think that some of Cait's naiveté is for the show. I can' t imagine that she has not at least read about some of the issues prior to transitioning. It would seem unlikely that she would rush into surgeries and coming out publicly before talking to other transgender people and counseling with professionals who specialize in that area

The problem is that this seems like lying to me, not naiveté. She got on a stage in front of the world and claimed she'd never even spoken to a transgender person until recently. The show DOES seem to fit with that, then again it might have been said so that the Espy appearance could support and put a button on the events of the show.

So that either leaves it as the truth (in which case it's puzzling how seriously we're supposed to take her if she took this approach) or a lie (in which case, well... she's a liar).

[Primetimer]

About 37 things happened this week and yet, also...nothing?

Read the story

[editorgrrl]

Cait really doesn't have a clue. Having dinner at Zackary's house, listening to the stories of how difficult it is to find a meaningful relationship when you are trans and how lonely it can be. Cait sat there listening as if this thought has never crossed her mind!

The recap says it better than I could:

http://previously.tv/i-am-cait/the-just-kidding-no-one-is-actually-dating-game/

Dinner par-tay with Cait and translady friends, complete with real talk about cis men who are ashamed of being into transwomen, so they reject you immediately as a relationship candidate, but will totally call you for sex.

In a magnificent scientific feat, Cait time-travels back to herself in Episode 3 and is all, "Really?" God, Jenner, I thought we went over this—yes, terrible shit happens, and when someone tells you about it, your job is to believe them. Chandi cannot deal with her, and says pointedly, "YES, CAITLYN."

[Adiba]

The problem is that this seems like lying to me, not naiveté. She got on a stage in front of the world and claimed she'd never even spoken to a transgender person until recently. The show DOES seem to fit with that, then again it might have been said so that the Espy appearance could support and put a button on the events of the show.So that either leaves it as the truth (in which case it's puzzling how seriously we're supposed to take her if she took this approach) or a lie (in which case, well... she's a liar).

Yeah, naiveté probably wasn't the best word -- I don't know what to think with this show-- " disingenuous" ? However, there are many instances where I believe Caitlyn really doesn't know things, or has even considered certain issues.

[ClareWalks]

Who Caitlyn wants to date or not date is her business, and I was a bit surprised that Jennifer Boylan was pushing so hard about it. And I was disappointed that she said "you don't need a man to make you a woman, a WOMAN can make you a woman." How about, you don't need ANYONE to make you a woman? You don't need a relationship to make you who you are. You are you. Be you, and be happy, and if you find someone you like, fantastic. If not, fantastic. Jeez louise, it doesn't have to be all about being in a relationship. If Caitlyn wants to be single and happy, good for her! She has enough crap to deal with at the moment. Plus she is extremely naive, so perhaps jumping into something is not the right play.

[Artsda]

it was only about a month ago that the Lamborghini was papped being taken into Cait's driveway. They are filming and editing close to air time, aren't they.

Yes, but it was after the ESPYs the care came, so they are airing and filming out of a sequence. They obviously want the Kris/ESPYs with the kids to be the grand finale.

 

 

Edited to add-- I also snorted when Jen said that Caitlyn was a good parent--isn't that a determination some of her children might find debatable?

Candis said the same thing in the previous weeks episode, Kris has said it, Khloe, Kendall, Kim, Kylie all of them have said it. I think at this point when someone says this it's just with an unspoken asterisk that they're talking about the 6 kids not the bio 4. 

 

* To the 6 kids she raised. 

 

 

I don't understand the common assertion that Caitlyn is rushing her transition. She's in her 60s! She's been wanting to transition most of her life

 

Not the physical transition, but perhaps the mental one. Where she just woke up one day it seems and decided she was going to be transgender today. She seems to be not fully grasping the community and keeping herself to the outside, the money aspect of course keeps her outside and then the "normal" conversations. Thinking she's proven herself, based on what?  

 

However, they could be dumbing her down a lot for the script to educate the viewers. 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2015 by Artsda

[iwasish]

Maybe being on TV five minutes after she came out?  

 

But I agree, waiting until her mid-60s to come out is hardly rushing it.  This is something she's lived with her entire life.  I have no doubt she did her research.  I get why she had to do all the physical stuff at once: 1) I imagine at 60 she is very aware that time is short  and 2) because of her celebrity the paps would have torn her apart.  Look how awful it was when she was just spotted leaving the doctors office.  Caitlyn's hair, nails, surgeries, etc. were all reported constantly.    

 

And she's giving herself a crash course in being a trans woman in America with some pretty impressive teachers to supply the cliff notes.  Cait doesn't have 20 or 30 years to learn everything her friends learned the hard way.   There was a guy at GLAAD  that said he had transitioned 18 years ago and often still learned something new every time he met a new member of the community because it is such a diverse community.   I don't blame Caitlyn for using her resources to try and get up to speed from the comfort of Malibu.  She wants to enjoy the last chapter of her life, and that's okay. 

 

Plus, I think some (but not all) of her naivete is for the show - she wants the show to be 'educational' for the viewers as well as for herself.  Or at least that's what I think she tells herself. 

She's doing the surgeries quickly not only because of her age but because she can afford to. Most transgender  don't have the funds to have all that work done at warp speed. They have to find the funds and then find someone who is willing to do it. Caitlyn has access to the best and most expensive.

I would have preferred that she have her transition, do a cover story and then disappear from the public eye for a while. Get out of LA, go to middle America, small towns etc, where no one has heard of a Kardashian,  carry a small video and camera and document her journey, the people she meets and the acceptance or rejections she receives,  what she learns about herself and society. Then a year or 18 months come back and share those experiences with us. Watching her have her hair and makeup applied (several times) every episode, complain about the paparazzi, sip her drinks thru a straw so not to muss her lipstick, get all weepy over whether or not her kids are proud of their "daddy", drink wine and chat with her paid assistants, all from her perch high up in the mountains of CA, is getting boring.

 

When she was listening to the news about the suicide of Kyler Prescott, I wondered how many other transgender suicides or crimes against did she hear about in the past and did she even give them a passing thought? Was she even aware that  kind of stuff occurred? Did she ever discuss it with any of her children or ask them about their thoughts on it?  I get the impression that Caitlyn decided to make this change and  now she expects that the world should change to make her transition more comfortable for her. Because that's what she's used to, being catered to . 

[BostonBlonde]

IMO, it seems that Candis sees $$$$ & almost treats Cait likes she's still the care taking, door opening, rescuer type "man". Boo Hoo... my car, my air conditioning, are you getting the bill, my abusive exs? Blah blah blah.

Again, this show is supposed to help educate the masses on transitioning people in a positive light? Nope.

Edited September 1, 2015 by BostonBlonde

[ClareWalks]

I would have preferred that she have her transition, do a cover story and then disappear from the public eye for a while. Get out of LA, go to middle America, small towns etc, where no one has heard of a Kardashian,   

 

Middle America isn't THAT backwards. Hell, there are people living in the Amazonian jungles without access to modern society that are aware of the Kardashians. 

[iwasish]

Middle America isn't THAT backwards. Hell, there are people living in the Amazonian jungles without access to modern society that are aware of the Kardashians. 

LOL, you're probably right. I think even Koko the sign language trained gorilla has added Kardashian to her repertoire of signs.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Candis has latched on to someone with money and will do anything as a performer to get in on it.  Then has the nerve to ask on camera if Cait is picking up the tab, all she left out was "as usual..."  Cait can hardly move her lips and what is happening with the left eye that was half mast the whole show?  Too much filler on that side?  She has had so much mouth work done she can hardly eat and I noticed she always uses a straw to drink anything, fresh surgery or no movement in lips or both.  Cait was a good father?  Not according to the first few kids!  Some professor!    

[iwasish]

IMO, it seems that Candis sees $$$$ & almost treats likes Cait likes she's still the care taking, door opening, rescuer type "man". Boo boo my car, my air conditioning, are you getting the bill, my abusive exs? Blah blah blah.

Again, this show is supposed to help educate the masses on transitioning people in a positive light? Nope.

But Caitlyn waltzed right into the role of  rescuer. Even taking poor helpless Candis to a garage to arrange for it to be fixed. Isn't Candis a 40 something yr old? If she is old enough to own a car she should know how to get it serviced and repaired. I might ask a male friend to follow me to a repair shop in order to have a ride home, but I do business with service manager myself.

 

The bit over the picking up of the lunch check was ridiculous too. Just fucking split it.

[iwasish]

Candis has latched on to someone with money and will do anything as a performer to get in on it.  Then has the nerve to ask on camera if Cait is picking up the tab, all she left out was "as usual..."  Cait can hardly move her lips and what is happening with the left eye that was half mast the whole show?  Too much filler on that side?  She has had so much mouth work done she can hardly eat and I noticed she always uses a straw to drink anything, fresh surgery or no movement in lips or both.  Cait was a good father?  Not according to the first few kids!  Some professor!    

The straw is to preserve her lipstick I think or to prevent her new veneers form getting stained by coffee, tea or other dark liquids.

Did she have her nostrils changed also, they look weird. She has a perpetual half duck lip think going on.  

 

I see her mom makes another appearance next week (in a wheelchair), is that for the Espys? Or did Cait have her brought in TWICE within a few months now, when she would normally go years without seeing her?

[Kromm]

Not the physical transition, but perhaps the mental one. Where she just woke up one day it seems and decided she was going to be transgender today. She seems to be not fully grasping the community and keeping herself to the outside, the money aspect of course keeps her outside and then the "normal" conversations. Thinking she's proven herself, based on what?  

 

However, they could be dumbing her down a lot for the script to educate the viewers.

To be clear, I personally don't think she has to "prove herself" in order to be a woman. And I KNOW that's not what you meant Artsda, I am 100% dead certain. But I bring it up because I am also fairly certain that at some point otherwise someone might see that dangling statement and then try and use it to imply you DID mean that.

What she needs to prove herself as is not as a woman, but as a "leader" of a movement, who deserves Courage Awards, to make statements like "let's fix this", and act like the summoner of the Transgender Justice League, who she all calls into her presence, etc. And maybe there's also some need to prove she's a decent human being and not some charlatan (because we can go on endlessly about people's rights to be themselves, transitioner or not, but when the right to their journey effects other people, bam... there's a responsibility).

Edited August 31, 2015 by Kromm

[Cosmocrush]

 

The bit over the picking up of the lunch check was ridiculous too. Just fucking split it.

Well, we know that neither Cait nor Candis paid - the check was most likely picked up by production. But I think that scene, along with the car in need of repair scenes, was part of the gender roles theme they had going in this episode.   Can a woman open a door for another women?  How about pick up a check?  Oh no, Cait has "masculine" character traits (otherwise known as logical according to the matchmaker)  on her love quiz etc. etc.  To which I say, "Pfffft" because it's 2015 and women can be friends and friends share experiences and expertise and even lunch checks, lol.  

I don't understand the common assertion that Caitlyn is rushing her transition. She's in her 60s! She's been wanting to transition most of her life

 

Not the physical transition, but perhaps the mental one. Where she just woke up one day it seems and decided she was going to be transgender today. She seems to be not fully grasping the community and keeping herself to the outside, the money aspect of course keeps her outside and then the "normal" conversations. Thinking she's proven herself, based on what?  

If Caitlyn's transition seems rushed (and I don't think it does) then maybe it's because while she had been thinking about this for at least 30 years everyone else was in the dark so it seems like it's  all of a sudden or even a shock when in actuality it's a long time coming.   That's how I've seen it anyway.

[bagatelle]

Did she have her nostrils changed also, they look weird. She has a perpetual half duck lip think going on.  

 

She's on her third nose job, by the looks of it. This one, for her transition, gave her an almost turned up tip and the whole nose is tiny.  Her nostrils are horizontal holes and they look very odd, especially the right one. That's not a nostril that looks natural, at all. 

 

I think Cait's original nose, that we saw during her Montreal days, would have worked fine, she never had a very masculine face to begin with, and this new little one is steps away from Michael Jackson's falling apart one.

[Kromm]

If Caitlyn's transition seems rushed (and I don't think it does) then maybe it's because while she had been thinking about this for at least 30 years everyone else was in the dark so it seems like it's  all of a sudden or even a shock when in actuality it's a long time coming.   That's how I've seen it anyway.

Honest opinion time.  

 

1.) Do you think Caitlyn is telling the truth about having never met (muchless talked to) another Treansgender person prior to a few weeks before the Espys (which would be around the same time this series began--ergo after her Transition).

 

2.) If she IS telling the truth, do you think that has any mitigating effect on the 30 year period of consideration you've discussed?

 

3.) If she's NOT telling the truth, does the fact that maybe she's more knowledgeable than she's portrayed onscreen and in her public speeches affect your position on her?

[bichonblitz]

Ushering Candis into the "parking lot" with all Caits expensive cars circled around and then telling her that she pulled some strings and got her a Lamborghini for a few days as a "loaner" was so tacky. If you want to be kind to a friend, loan her one of the many cars you have. Don't mock her ten yr old Volvo either, she drives what she can afford, be happy she's not on the government dole and living large on your tax money Cait.

Cait, Cait, Cait. How out of touch with reality can you be. It must be nice living in that multi million dollar manse on the cliff overlooking the Pacific with how ever many cars you own. I thought Candis' Volvo looked pretty damn good for a 10 yr. old car and last time I checked, Volvo was considered a luxury car. For the common folk, that is. No, Cait, you are never going to be "normal". And it has nothing to do with being trans. 

[Cosmocrush]

Honest opinion time.  

 

1.) Do you think Caitlyn is telling the truth about having never met (muchless talked to) another Treansgender person prior to a few weeks before the Espys (which would be around the same time this series began--ergo after her Transition).

 

2.) If she IS telling the truth, do you think that has any mitigating effect on the 30 year period of consideration you've discussed?

 

3.) If she's NOT telling the truth, does the fact that maybe she's more knowledgeable than she's portrayed onscreen and in her public speeches affect your position on her?

 

1) Yes, it's possible and it's also possible that " I never even talked to a transgender person until recently" wasn't supposed to be literal,  I don't know but I'm not sure it matters that much.  I saw it as a nod to all the people she's met since coming out and doing her show.   She's been very guarded about that part of her life for a a very long time and even those in her family who knew about the cross dressing never really knew the real issue so I doubt she would've let herself be part of that community in any way she could be recognized.  So I'd guess any contact was limited to doctors or others where she was secure with the confidentiality. 

 

2)  Not really.   Children who don't even know the word transgender can feel the need to identify as the opposite gender as the one assigned at birth. Before the internet trans people transitioned without ever meeting another trans.  Remember that movie Boys Don't Cry - about the true life and death of a trans man in the early 1990s?   And how many people have we seen on this show, or interviews on other shows, say they were the only trans person they knew for a long time?

 

3) If Caitlyn is more knowledgeable than she portrays  it's a good move for the show; because she wants to educate her viewers and has wisely left the education to the experts rather than do it herself. (whether or not she's succeeding is another question) Then the criticism would be "Who is this newbie to get on TV and explain the transgender community?"   

Edited August 31, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[ClareWalks]

Cait, Cait, Cait. How out of touch with reality can you be. It must be nice living in that multi million dollar manse on the cliff overlooking the Pacific with how ever many cars you own. I thought Candis' Volvo looked pretty damn good for a 10 yr. old car and last time I checked, Volvo was considered a luxury car. For the common folk, that is. No, Cait, you are never going to be "normal". And it has nothing to do with being trans. 

 

This, for sure. Cait doesn't seem to understand that most people, even if they are doing well financially, prioritize what they want to spend money on. Candis's car might be a bit older and a bit disastrous, but she has a lovely home, a great wardrobe, and is impeccably styled and manicured. She also might have assets that aren't as material, like a nice retirement fund or investment portfolio, or great health insurance. Not everyone can "have it all" like Caitlyn.