Past Plots Discussion: Whatever Happened To...

[swtrgrl]

Sami's past is relevant when the argument is that Abby should have been fired because of ethics and principles.  Sami doesn't have any.  And Kayla knows that, and could see through her bullshit from a mile away.

 

Still disagree with you. Sami may not have many ethics/principles ... agree about that...However, If anyone wanted to go to the board of Dimera (or wherever she was working at the time(s)) they could have . In fact, Abi threatened Sami w/calling a board member after Sami was in her face and told her she sent a copy of Will's article to Chad. Sami was neutered from that point on.

Edited December 22, 2015 by swtrgrl

[teacake]

Still disagree with you. Sami may not have many ethics/principles ... agree about that...However, If anyone wanted to go to the board of Dimera (or wherever she was working at the time(s)) they could have . In fact, Abi threatened Sami w/calling a board member after Sami was in her face and told her she sent a copy of Will's article to Chad. Sami was neutered from that point on.

 

What does that have to do with Kayla?

Edited December 22, 2015 by lska

[swtrgrl]

I never mentioned Kayla. Kayla was there to prop Abi. That's all 

[teacake]

I never mentioned Kayla. Kayla was there to prop Abi. That's all 

 

Well, then we're having different conversations.

[Peanut6711]

Going down this path seems to open Steve and Kayla, who had their own "impulse control" issues when it came to sex, to comparisons with Kayla's rapist as well.  And it's not like Sami's actions weren't driven by her own disbelief that EJ would fuck Abby.

 I don't think Sami did think EJ would screw around with Abby. She wasn't expecting that. Hell, even most viewers didn't see that coming because it was so badly plotted. But then the writers of 2014 were not the writers of 1987 when characters actions actually made sense. As already pointed out by Happytobehere in a very insightful  post a few back, Jack could have seen Steve & Kayla coming a mile a way. He was pulling strings that set a disturbing chain of evens in motion from the day he arrived in town.  He wasn't blindsided like Sami was; he was simply delusional.   The situations are totally different.  Sami didn't manipulate EJ away from Abigail and guilt him into an engagement with her only to be surprised when he cheated with Abigail. Just the opposite, Sami and EJ were the established couple with Abs as the interloper just like her father was the interloper in Steve and Kayla's relationship. 

 

I don't know why Kayla should have remained non-judgmental of Sami's motives, and simply let herself be used as a tool of revenge against someone else she cared about.  Where in Kayla's nature or character has she ever indulged someone's vengeful schemes?  Not wanting to be part of more destructiveness and vindictiveness is totally Kayla.

Sami getting her way wasn't impartial, except in Sami's own mind.  Sami wanted to make Kayla choose her, when there was no real reason that Kayla needed to take sides between two of her nieces, except Sami's ego and pride. Sami's past is relevant when the argument is that Abby should have been fired because of ethics and principles.  Sami doesn't have any.  And Kayla knows that, and could see through her bullshit from a mile away.

 

Kayla should have remained non-judgement because it was her job to handle the situation of an employee violating hospital policy in a non-biased manner. Sami's motives were irrelevant. Abigail acted in a way that was in violation of hospital policy.  If Kayla couldn't perform her own job of terminating an employee who broke the rules due to family relations, then she needed to turn the issue to Anne, head of HR.  It's why a lot of companies in the real world don't allow for employees to be related if one employee is management and the other isn't. This is very much the case at the local hospital where I live. You can not work there in non-management if a family member is in management to avoid situations as such. Related employees would have to be either both management or both non-management. 

 

Sami, on the other hand, didn't need to be impartial. She was simply the whistle-blower reporting what she knew.  Nor does her ethics matter in this situation as she's not an employee of the hospital. Abigail was and that's why ethics was an issue when it came to her.  I'm not sure you are looking at this from a corporate standpoint. 

[teacake]

I don't think Sami did think EJ would screw around with Abby. She wasn't expecting that. Hell, even most viewers didn't see that coming because it was so badly plotted. But then the writers of 2014 were not the writers of 1987 when characters actions actually made sense. As already pointed out by Happytobehere in a very insightful  post a few back, Jack could have seen Steve & Kayla coming a mile a way. He was pulling strings that set a disturbing chain of evens in motion from the day he arrived in town.  He wasn't blindsided like Sami was; he was simply delusional.   The situations are totally different.  Sami didn't manipulate EJ away from Abigail and guilt him into an engagement with her only to be surprised when he cheated with Abigail. Just the opposite, Sami and EJ were the established couple with Abs as the interloper just like her father was the interloper in Steve and Kayla's relationship.

 

I actually don't really agree with that characterization of Jack in Steve and Kayla's history.  Jack was never a typical soap interloper.  He always had an eye on Kayla and an entitled edge, but he didn't set in motion the chain of events that led Kayla to marry him.  Steve and Jo were the ones who were manipulating Kayla's feelings and guilt to get her to be open to Jack's advances.  Jack showed some controlling signs during their marriage, but he also was friends with Kayla before she ever met Steve.  Jack was certainly in denial about some of the signs that Steve and Kayla were giving off, but he agreed to marry her knowing that she was in love with Steve, and it was while waiting for things to change until he snapped.

 

Unlike Abby, there was nothing sexual between him and Kayla -- in fact it was the denial of sex and being cuckolded that drove him over the edge (quite similar to how I see Sami's behavior in the light of the EJAbby affair).  Jack/Kayla was a marriage neither of them should have entered into, but at the time that Jack raped Kayla, Steve and Kayla were cheating on him because they couldn't stay away from each other.  Jack had a valid point of view in seeing Steve as the interloper in his marriage, until his own actions undermined the righteousness of his anger.

 

Kayla should have remained non-judgement because it was her job to handle the situation of an employee violating hospital policy in a non-biased manner. Sami's motives were irrelevant. Abigail acted in a way that was in violation of hospital policy.  If Kayla couldn't perform her own job of terminating an employee who broke the rules due to family relations, then she needed to turn the issue to Anne, head of HR.  It's why a lot of companies in the real world don't allow for employees to be related if one employee is management and the other isn't. This is very much the case at the local hospital where I live. You can not work there in non-management if a family member is in management to avoid situations as such. Related employees would have to be either both management or both non-management. 

 

Sami, on the other hand, didn't need to be impartial. She was simply the whistle-blower reporting what she knew.  Nor does her ethics matter in this situation as she's not an employee of the hospital. Abigail was and that's why ethics was an issue when it came to her.  I'm not sure you are looking at this from a corporate standpoint. 

 

When it comes to a soap that holds as little relationship to reality as Days, I don't really give the corporate standpoint the ultimate sway.

 

The situation is also more complicated than a cut-and-dried situation from a corporate handbook.  There's a familial dynamic in play here, not just between Abby and Kayla, but with the position that Sami put Kayla in, that I don't think you are considering.  I would be livid if one family member tried to use my position to pit me against another, especially in a situation where I had no intention of taking sides.  I keep hearing that Sami's motives don't matter, but it's because Kayla and Sami's relationship is not simply a corporate one that they do matter to me.  Kayla is the person who dropped everything to babysit Sami's newborn twins when she left town, and whose kidnapper Sami thoughtlessly tried to move in down the hall from her.  Kayla had a right to feel used and pissed at Sami's singlemindedness.

 

Just me but Kayla should have been terminated herself for refusing to do her job.  I just know I would have been.

 

That really would have been a scorched earth campaign, if Kayla lost her job as fallout of EJ and Abby's affair.

Edited December 22, 2015 by lska

[bobcat1946]

When Sami broke the moral codes of the hospital she was always fired as she should have been.  Sami did not have any morals and she was fired.

 

But things were different when it came to Kayla no morals niece. When it came to no morals Kayla did not care what no morals did The rules did not apply to her.  After all she is her deadbeat husband's niece.

Edited December 22, 2015 by bobcat1946

[Peanut6711]

The situation is also more complicated than a cut-and-dried situation from a corporate handbook.  There's a familial dynamic in play here, not just between Abby and Kayla, but with the position that Sami put Kayla in, that I don't think you are considering.  I would be livid if one family member tried to use my position to pit me against another, especially in a situation where I had no intention of taking sides.  I keep hearing that Sami's motives don't matter, but it's because Kayla and Sami's relationship is not simply a corporate one that they do matter to me.  Kayla is the person who dropped everything to babysit Sami's newborn twins when she left town, and whose kidnapper Sami thoughtlessly tried to move in down the hall from her.  Kayla had a right to feel used and pissed at Sami's singlemindedness.

 

 

That really would have been a scorched earth campaign, if Kayla lost her job as fallout of EJ and Abby's affair.

 

The family dynamics is irrelevant in a business situation as they aren't supposed to be acting in any kind of family role. They have to be impartial. Kayla had to look at the situation as chief of staff of the hospital, not as either of them's aunt.  Sami wasn't using Kayla's position for a favor. She had valid evidence. It would be no different if a fellow employee brought the information to Kayla and her sole motivation was to get Abs's job. Again, her motives might not be pristine but the information is still true and valid. It's why if you don't want to get fired, you follow protocol. It's completely unprofessional to disregard policy and expect to keep your job because your aunt is in charge. In that case then Abigail is using Kayla's position to her advantage.  

 

 And I'd totally agree that if Kayla couldn't do her job in that situation then she should be fired too. Maybe then she'd learn a lesson about hiring family. 

[QuelleC]

Not that I'd want to see Kayla fired.  But hell, you can be fired on suspicions these days or for no reason at all.  Anyway, I think the scene sticks with me because it was rather out of character for Kayla who for the most part strictly follows rules.  At the time I was disappointed that the only repercussion Failure would have is a justified firing yet it's seen as harsh. Or Days did a great job wanting us to pile on Sami just as Salem has done all these years. It's pretty brilliant when you think about it.  As if we were Salemites, Failure's guilt was put aside but I remember lots of criticism about Sami threatening to send the donation somewhere else. 

Edited December 23, 2015 by QuelleC

[Happytobehere]

As already pointed out by Happytobehere in a very insightful  post

Why thank you Peanut6711.

I guess having read all the posts and having acknowledged that I was not watching during the Abby and EJ affair, I still assert that the comparisons with the Steve/Kayla/Jack scenario are superficial at best. On the surface, Jack was a victim entitled to righteous indignation. However, when you factor in his actions in the Johnson a Family manipulations even before he knew he was a Johnson (aside from admitting to the man his wife loved that he knew she did not love him [Jack] the way she loved Steve, the claim of a friendship with Kayla pre-Steve is false and points to his obsession and delusion. Kayla knew Jack before Steve. She hadn't seen or thought of him in years, Jack on the other hand thought about her all the time, Kayla didn't even know what Jack's last name was or anything about his background, neither of these things indicates that this friendship was anything more than Kayla's general kindness to people that the sick and entitled Jack twisted into more than it was) Jack was not a victim, but a participant in the disillusion of his own delusion and like all obsessed stalkers, he turned his rage on his obsession when the lies he told himself could no longer hold up to the light of his own mind. Sami on the other hand was a victim. As for Kayla's response, aside from being out of character, I am really not in a position to speak on the rightness or wrongness of what took place.

[Peanut6711]

 but I remember lots of criticism about Sami threatening to send the donation somewhere else. 

I remember that too and never understood it. Sami didn't threaten to not donate the money to the kids at all, she simply said she'd donate to another hospital.'s children's wing. Either way the children were not being slighted. The same amount of funds were going to a children's program. 

[bobcat1946]

Kayla did not hire zero morals.  Ann had to hire her because Seth Burns the head hucko was crazy about her/  No reason was given for him being crazy about zero.

[Peanut6711]

Came across this old clip and despite the quality of the video, it's amazing the difference in the overall storytelling and filming---on location, the camera angles, the background music. You just don't get this today and it's pathetic when something shot in 1984 looks like a movie while in 2015 it's nothing more than a campy daytime hour.

 

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/b36QVw6opwM

[Dandesun]

I love the bodies draped artfully about after the crash. That was kind of hilarious to me.

I love the bodies draped artfully about after the crash. That was kind of hilarious to me.

[Peanut6711]

I love the bodies draped artfully about after the crash. That was kind of hilarious to me.

 

It looked like Lost twenty years before it's time. 

 

I also couldn't help but draw parallels between the plane crash scene and the automobile accident of today. Somehow I highly doubt what will play out in the next episode will have any kind of cinematography like this. Back then the showrunners knew how to do something slightly dark but still compelling without it coming off as simply shock value. 

[DisneyBoy]

I remember some truly awesome Daytime accidents....

Another World had Felicia fall through a skylight onto a table and it was brutal as all get-out, though a simple enough event.

They also had the infamous Train Tressel sequence where Justine fell and was dragged off by a train - and they managed to make it tremendously dramatic without ever showing an actual train. It was all set and lighting and sound editing.

It isn't about how much you spend...its about how artfully you use of that you've got.

[Rick Kitchen]

Can somebody explain to me Ava and Nicole's friendship?

[Irlandesa]

It isn't about how much you spend...its about how artfully you use of that you've got.

That's true to a point but money goes a long way.  A very long way.  Soaps in the 80s were making money hand over fist and they were spending it.  Better sets.  Better location shoots.  Better stunts. All of that added up to things looking better.  

 

Gosh I loved soaps in the 80s and 90s.  Such escapist fun.

[annabel]

Yeah, budgets used to be huge. I still remember a quote from Marcy Walker back when Cruz and Eden were in their heyday "my vacation check is more than my dad makes in a year." I doubt ANYONE on soaps makes that kind of money anymore.

Edited January 1, 2016 by annabel

[SanDiegoInExile]

Came across this old clip and despite the quality of the video, it's amazing the difference in the overall storytelling and filming---on location, the camera angles, the background music. You just don't get this today and it's pathetic when something shot in 1984 looks like a movie while in 2015 it's nothing more than a campy daytime hour.

 

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/b36QVw6opwM

 

As others noted, daytime was a cash cow 30 years ago and producers could spend plenty of $$$$ on remote locations, action shots, extras.  The subsequent clips have all been pulled from youtube (81 clips gone!), but they were extremely cheesy faux-island sets used for the several days/weeks of island storyline.  Only half the principals (Bo-Hope-Eugene-Andre) filmed out-of-studio scenes. I don't even think Arleen Sorkin was on location, as they cut to interior-filmed scenes when Eugene helped her from the wing. The bikini clad body double was likely a stuntperson.  LeAnn Hunley, Gloria Loring, Don Diamont, Madelyn Rhue, Nurse Honeycutt (and Jasmine) didnt get to film in the wilds of Los Angeles.  The actors who worked in the remote also filmed plenty of scenes on-set, in the horrifically bad faux island wilderness (think early version of Murder Park).

 

Although the current storyline is choppy, I think DOOL did a great job lately with the BasicBlack NYE Event.  The runway scenes were awkward, but I thought the after-party celebration looked great on-screen.  I think that set was also used for the remarkably inept Ciara Kidnapped one-day storyline.  It appears to be a warehouse-y set that is huge, has great camera angles, and echoes (and probably part of the empty studio space abandoned when NBC moved its taping to Universal). Not sure how often that type of set can be re-positioned, but you wouldn't have even seen that type of interior 6 months ago.

 

1985 Miami had the best remotes, with all 8 principals on scene, and Phil Collins, rather than some random musical score:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWlEN-DiPcY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WolX0jkvX2E

(slightly edited)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghJEcoskqjk

Edited January 1, 2016 by SanDiegoInExile

[Kitty Redstone]

I love these old clips!  Josh Taylor channeling Don Johnson was hilarious. and I wonder how much they had to pay Phil Collins to use his songs.  

 

As fun as the old stuff is, though, it also makes me sad.  Soaps used to be so, so wonderful.  They could be good again even without the expensive locations shots.  It just takes good stories, interesting characters (that don't act out of character because the plot says so), and decent actors.

 

They could be even better if writers would call back to their soaps' rich histories to drive current stories in thoughtful ways, but instead they only use history superficially to appease fans or as a means to retcon stupid shit (especially on GH).  Seeing that last clip with Victor in bed with Kimberley reminded me of something Apprentice79 used to talk about re: Theresa.   It would make so much more sense for Victor to hate Theresa because she's Kim and Shane's daughter but it's never mentioned.  Why don't the writers give JA something to really bite into acting wise instead of having him do nothing but call Theresa horrible, misogynist names? 

[Rick Kitchen]

It's so amazing to compare the look of US soaps vs. British soaps.  One British soap, Emmerdale, has an entire TOWN that they built for the show, with individual sets in each house and an actual, working pub that actually dispenses real beer that the actors drink.

[DisneyBoy]

Isn't Coronation Street a similar deal?

[Rick Kitchen]

I haven't ever watched Coronation Street, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[LeftPhalange]

John's constantly changing backstory confuses me. How did he end up at the School for Assassins? Wasn't he with the Alamains before then? How and why did Stefano kidnap and brainwash him?

[DisneyBoy]

I was just thinking the same thing. As I rewatch the earliest Kristen/John episodes, its clear that he does remember being an Alamain and going to see a ballgame at Yankee Stadium, but then its a blank.

So...does that mean the Alamains sent him to the Assassin school...or that Stefano brainwashed child John and then he went to the school...or that his later brainwashing at the hands of Stefano caused blanks randomly throughout his childhood?

We need one episode that lays it all out.

[JBC344]

I'm not sure if the assassin school was the place the Alamain's sent John when he was younger not knowing what was going on there.  We do know that the Alamain's sent John away after adoption because Lawrence repeatedly tried to kill him when they were kids.  It is still unclear who sent him there.  I guess a clue would be what name John had while he was there.  For the early years of his life John was Forest Alamain.

 

Now that I think about it, I don't remember why he never kept the Alamain last name.  Even if he was known as John Black while Stefano's pawn why keep that name over his adopted name.

Edited January 2, 2016 by JBC344

[LeftPhalange]

How did John end up with the Alamain's in the first place? I think I remember reading something about someone named Daphnie giving him to her sister who was married to an Alamain? Why did Lawerence try to kill him?

 

If they insist on going down this road again they really do need to dedicate an episode to explaining this. I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who weren't watching back then and are having a hard time trying to understand what's happening. 

[JBC344]

How did John end up with the Alamain's in the first place? I think I remember reading something about someone named Daphnie giving him to her sister who was married to an Alamain? Why did Lawerence try to kill him?

 

If they insist on going down this road again they really do need to dedicate an episode to explaining this. I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who weren't watching back then and are having a hard time trying to understand what's happening. 

This was John's last retcon before the whole "Santo/Colleen" mess of a storyline.

 

Daphne Dimera, who is Tony's mother and Stefano's first wife cheated on Stefano and got pregnant with John.  Daphne Dimera and Philomena Alamain were sisters so when Daphne had to give John up she arranged for Philomena and Leopold (Vivian's brother) to adopt him.  They named him Forest Alamain.  Apparently Lawrence didn't take to kindly to having a new brother and was jealous.  Lawrence was a psycho even as a child it seems, and repeatedly tried to kill Forest/John.  The Alamain's sent him away to keep him safe.  I don't remember what happened them but for some reason Forest was either thought dead or kidnapped, but the Alamains I believe lost track of Forest.

 

We don't know if the assassain school is where in fact the Alamain's sent him thinking it was a boarding school or if Stefano got a hold of him at that age and put him there to in fact train to be the pawn? 

[Lastwaltz]

Thanks for all this history about John Black! I knew/remembered the bare bones but the Daphne/Philomena stuff sewed things together for me.  I'm more into that storyline now -- hopefully when the Chabby affair is resolved there'll be room in the show for them to do this right. But I won't hold my breath : )

[LeftPhalange]

This was John's last retcon before the whole "Santo/Colleen" mess of a storyline.

 

Daphne Dimera, who is Tony's mother and Stefano's first wife cheated on Stefano and got pregnant with John.  Daphne Dimera and Philomena Alamain were sisters so when Daphne had to give John up she arranged for Philomena and Leopold (Vivian's brother) to adopt him.  They named him Forest Alamain.  Apparently Lawrence didn't take to kindly to having a new brother and was jealous.  Lawrence was a psycho even as a child it seems, and repeatedly tried to kill Forest/John.  The Alamain's sent him away to keep him safe.  I don't remember what happened them but for some reason Forest was either thought dead or kidnapped, but the Alamains I believe lost track of Forest.

 

We don't know if the assassain school is where in fact the Alamain's sent him thinking it was a boarding school or if Stefano got a hold of him at that age and put him there to in fact train to be the pawn? 

 

I assume Daphne kept her pregnancy a secret from Stefano somehow? Did Stefano think John was his son when he brainwashed him? Since Daphne isn't John's mother what happened to the baby she gave to the Alamain's? Wouldn't they have recognized the child they raised for awhile and known that John was a different person?

 

Very little has been revealed about the assassin school and it hasn't been revealed how John ended up there. John and Eduardo had one conversation for a for a few scenes in one episode and that's it. 

Edited January 2, 2016 by LeftPhalange

[JBC344]

Thanks for all this history about John Black! I knew/remembered the bare bones but the Daphne/Philomena stuff sewed things together for me.  I'm more into that storyline now -- hopefully when the Chabby affair is resolved there'll be room in the show for them to do this right. But I won't hold my breath : )

Your welcome, :)  I don't know why when they rightfully undid the Santo/Colleen stuff they just didn't have John revert back to being Daphne's son.  It was a perfect explanation.  It explained John's conception and how he got to the Alamains, and also explained Stefano's hatred of John and kept John and Tony as rival brothers.

[JBC344]

I assume Daphne kept her pregnancy a secret from Stefano somehow? Did Stefano think John was his son when he brainwashed him? Since Daphne isn't John's mother what happened to the baby she gave to the Alamain's? Wouldn't they have recognized the child they raised for awhile and known that John was a different person?

If I remember correctly I think Daphne gave John away as a way to keep her marriage to Stefano intact. Otherwise she would of just divorced him and kept John.  I can't remember if Tony was born yet but I think not.  Daphne set up the adoption of course but it was still done through the orphanage. 

 

John as Forest Alamain is still canon, it seems now they have just erased Daphne from the equation so as of now the Alamins still adopted John from an orphanage, raised him for a couple of years and then sent him away.  What is missing is the timeline between Forest Alamain being sent away and the "assassin school" and Stefano getting a hold of him.  And how connected the last two are to each other.

 

The only Alamains left during the initial "John Black" storyline where Lawrence and Vivian.  I don't believe Lawrence or Vivian recognized him as Forest, but Vivian did embrace John as her nephew and always has.  To this day John considers Vivian his aunt and Nicky his nephew.

[LeftPhalange]

http://soaps.wikia.com/wiki/John_Black

 

I found some information that helps explain John's backstory a bit:

 

As of November 2015, here is what is known about John's past (up to the point that he came onscreen in 1986) that has not at this point been rewritten:

• Born to heretofore unknown parents, wound up as a baby in a South American orphanage.
• Switched with the infant Ryan Brady, who had died, and given to Colleen Brady, Ryan's mother, who believed all her life that he was her son.
• When Colleen realized she couldn't fully care for Ryan (John) alone, given up for adoption to the Alamain family.
• Raised for a while as Forrest Alamain, brother of Lawrence, and son of Leopold and Philomena.
• When young Forrest almost drowned in the Alamain's swimming pool, and Lawrence simply watched and let it happen, the parents realized that Lawrence represented a threat to Forrest, so they faked his death and sent him to live in America in a series of boarding schools. One of those schools was in the New York area, where he befriended a custodian and baseball enthusiast named "Buddy", who passed along his love of baseball to young Forrest.
• One of those boarding schools may or may not have been Winterthorne in Vermont, where ex-Soviet spy (and later DiMera henchman) Ilya Petrov was employed as a teacher.
• Post-high school-age and mid-to-late 20s is unknown. Somehow during this period, Forrest ended up as a "soldier" for the DiMera criminal organization, a subject of mind control via brainwashing and torture, and a variety of martial arts and paramilitary training. Forrest became involved in all sorts of crazy DiMera schemes and adventures, and his scant memories of this time had him posing as a priest, a mercenary/soldier in some sort of jungle warfare, an Army medic, and an art thief.

 

(It's not a stretch to presume here that Petrov was responsible for bringing Forrest Alamain into the DiMeras' fold, as well as [as an ex-KGB agent] introducing Stefano to the notion of using brainwashing to control Forrest. What is currently unclear is whether Stefano [through Petrov] learned of his connection to Colleen Brady [against whom Stefano bore a grudge for breaking his father's heart] and/or Philomena Alamain [see below], and sought him out while he was at Petrov's school . . . or whether it was all a huge coincidence.)

 

• Sometime during this period Stefano gave Forrest the alias "John Black".
• Also during this period John became involved with Gina von Amburg, Rachel Blake, Danielle Tremaine (aka the master jewel thief "Romulus"), and at some point it was suggested that he was the child of Stefano's common-law wife (and Philomena Alamain's sister) Daphne, and an unnamed father.
• Unclear whether the Orion/Drew Donovan/Thailand events were John's, or part of Roman's past that were "programmed" into John's memory.
• Also during this time, John was "programmed" via hypnosis with half of the information needed to figure out the astronomical signs to pinpoint the time and date of a certain celestial event that would reveal the location of an ancient Mayan treasure inside the Castillo at Chichen Itza (which would take place in 1991). Roman Brady was programmed with the other half of the information, and they would have to work together to figure it out. Although part of this clearly took place while Roman was in Stefano's captivity, part of it related to one of Roman's earlier ISA cases called the "Landan case".
• Sometime in 1985, John was sent (or lured) to Miami, where plastic surgery was "faked" and John was set up (through more brainwashing) to serve as Stefano's programmed assassin/Roman-Brady-imposter, who Stefano had captured and made to look like was dead.
• A bandaged John was "won" by Victor Kiriakis as part of an ultra-high-stakes yacht race, put up by Stefano's henchman Petrov, and brought back to Salem by Victor, who set about trying to unravel John's identity and memories (while suspecting that he may be Roman) for his own purposes.
• In 1986, amnesiac John saw the name "John Black" on a war memorial, which triggered his memory of using it as an alias before, and he temporarily adopted it before he, as well as Roman's family and friends, became convinced that John was the missing Roman Brady.

Edited January 2, 2016 by LeftPhalange

[JBC344]

Wow, thanks for all that.  It does bring back a lot of plot points that I never knew or completely forgot about. 

 

The only thing that is "incorrect" is that he was "involved" with Rachel Blake.  If they are using "involved" to mean romantically, which is seems like considering the other examples.  John was never romantic with Rachel (Kristen's mother), he was a friend/sounding board.  I think this was when John was a young priest and would help counsel Rachel before she had her breakdown. 

[QuelleC]

I'm still glad I quit Days during the Colleen story.  The background is very appreciated. But I still don't care who Jawn is.

Edited January 3, 2016 by QuelleC

[SanDiegoInExile]

At this point, I tend to agree.  I find it a bit sad that a nearly 70 year old man is obsessing over his parents, especially since his life and his immediate family are so mucked up.  His oldest son is falling head over heels for a Brady grandchild who whacked John with a fireplace poker. TinkerBelle is secretly hiding hundreds of millions of dollars for her off-screen half-sister, divorcing a husband for the third time, ignoring her teen wanna-be chanteuse, starting a law firm, and dipping her toe in the DiMera sexpool.  And his youngest son helped break up Salem's short-lived gay marriage, traded his burgeoning sports career for modeling, and still hasn't figured out how everyone in Salem is related or not related to him.

 

Hopefully the search will soon just morph into some sinister plot, requiring him to slip back into ISA Emeritus role.  That's the only time that DH has been convincing as a DOOL actor.

[DisneyBoy]

I would be glad to see John finally meet his father or mother, but they would have to be in their 80s at this point. After reading that recap of his history (thanks BTW) I really don't understand how they went twenty years without having Stefano ever lay out exactly how he ended up meeting John. Maybe they'll finally try to explain it now...?

His is possibly the most needlessly convoluted history of any character.

And I secretly hope they unretcon Paul as his son.

[minirth]

I found the most amazing clip on YouTube of a catfight between Abby and Chloe and I've got to know the backstory! Chloe tore Abby apart, accusing her of being a disappointment to dead Jack and of being disloyal to her father by encouraging Jennifer to be with Dan and it was AMAZING. I don't know what year this happened, but Chloe referenced Jack's recent death while casting massive shade Jennifer's way.

Can anyone please tell me what bug crawled up Chloe's ass? Why did she attack Abby? I've honestly never had much use for her until now. And I have to admit that Kate Mansi was good in that scene!

Edited January 8, 2016 by minirth

[JBC344]

I found the most amazing clip on YouTube of a catfight between Abby and Chloe and I've got to know the backstory! Chloe tore Abby apart, accusing her of being a disappointment to dead Jack and of being disloyal to her father by encouraging Jennifer to be with Dan and it was AMAZING. I don't know what year this happened, but Chloe referenced Jack's recent death while casting massive shade Jennifer's way.

Can anyone please tell me what bug crawled up Chloe's ass? Why did she attack Abby? I've honestly never had much use for her until now. And I have to admit that Kate Mansi was good in that scene!

This was when Jennifer and Dan were together and Parker was revealed to be Dan's son and not Phillips.  Anyway Chloe wanted Dan back and was getting close to him despite his relationship with Jennifer.  Anyway Abigail took it upon herself to but into the triangle and demand Chloe to stay away from Dan. 

 

At this point Chloe had had enough and put Abigail in her place.  Chloe felt how dare you question the things I have done considering everything that Abby did to Austin and Carrie.  Now while Chloe herself was up to no good, a lot of us on the board agreed with her regarding Abigail.  How dare Abby get on a high horse concerning her actions when she herself has done the same if not worse to an actual married couple.  This is why Chloe brought up how Jack would of been disappointed in Abby's actions and how essentially Jennifer treated Jack badly before he died by carrying on with Daniel and how Abby has endorsed that relationship.

[minirth]

JBC, thank you thank you thank you for the background information on that scene -- it makes it even more enjoyable!!! I really appreciate the history lesson! :)

[JBC344]

JBC, thank you thank you thank you for the background information on that scene -- it makes it even more enjoyable!!! I really appreciate the history lesson! :)

My pleasure.  I actually don't dislike Abby, and adore Chloe.  Abby totally had it coming.

[LeftPhalange]

The ongoing bloodbath got me to thinking about the Salem Stalker story from a decade ago. Were any of you watching then? How did you feel when half the cast was *killed* off? I first started watching sometime during that story, I think after everyone was taken to Fake Salem. 

[Apprentice79]

I was okay with the story until Marlena killed Alice Horton with one of her infamous donuts. That was beyond the pale for me.. The reveal of Marlena being the killer was awesome. Plus, I loved Lumi falling in love and their fantasies about each other... They were the last couple that got supercouple writing on the show..Lumi was so perfect for each other..

[Happytobehere]

The ongoing bloodbath got me to thinking about the Salem Stalker story from a decade ago. Were any of you watching then? How did you feel when half the cast was *killed* off? I first started watching sometime during that story, I think after everyone was taken to Fake Salem.

I've been watching since I was a little girl in the 70's. I remember when Marlena was introduced and when she "died" the first time. Days has done fantastic serial killer stories and who-done-it's. Seeing what's become of it now is actually kind of heartbreaking.

As for the Stalker storyline, I hated the deaths of so many of my favs, and but found I was actually torn when everyone was brought back because I hate the easy out and the resolution was the ultimate easy out in the face of fan backlash.

[QuelleC]

I was watching then.  All we had were SOD magazines which I couldn't afford, so I never thought they were really dead.  Years later I found out about the rewrite.  I mean, so many people were vanishing it was kind of cool then to find out they were being stashed on an island made soap sense, not knowing they were meant to be fired in the first place. There were so many of them I didn't believe it was real. I still remember the plane ride home and poor Shawn. Melaswen is still why I avoid spoilers today.  Reading for my English degree I always reserved criticism until the end of the book, making it a point to get involved with the story and world as presented.  I can't imagine being able to look up storylines on the internet and ruining all those novels for myself.

[SanDiegoInExile]

The ongoing bloodbath got me to thinking about the Salem Stalker story from a decade ago. Were any of you watching then? How did you feel when half the cast was *killed* off? I first started watching sometime during that story, I think after everyone was taken to Fake Salem. 

 

I loved it.  Have watched daily since 1985 and it's up there in the Top 10 storylines.  I recall that NBC actually showed two pivotal episodes at a Red Carpet Event, treating it as the Hollywood Spectacle it became.  I wasn't following message boards much at the time (just the old Dustins DOOL site), so I wasn't clued in on so many of the behind-the-scenes drama (ie John Clarke offering to be killed off instead of Suzanne Rogers so she could stay employed and keep her much needed health insurance coverage).  Much of the rewrite drama had surfaced into the press by the time Alice was the final victim, so I just enjoyed the Marlena-Alice cat-and-mouse routine all around the Horton home, knowing that Alice was going to be just fine.

 

There were horribly cheesy moments all along, but I loved loved loved the pacing.  Victims were falling weekly.  And Dee just chewed the scenery as good as she ever had. Her cemetery standoff with 80+ year old Bill Hayes was stellar.  Having her assume the Hattie Adams role was a nice tug back to long lost storylines.

 

Cassie in a pinata, with the kids all banging away. Caroline keeling over in church. And then sitting up in her casket to chat with dear friend Frankie (aka Celeste) Kate's blood splattered wedding dress.  Horton the tiger mauling away at the circus.  Maggie blocking out that it was Marlena, seeking counsel/hypnosis from Marlena, casually greeting Marlena on the Night of Death, then realizing that Marlena was going to kill her.  One of Suzanne Rogers' best weeks.

 

Oh and Jan Spears sizzling Victor in the tub, to help Nicole.  More fun.

 

Melaswen (aka FakeSalem) dragged and was a dud.  Sticking Victor/Caroline/Jack/Cassie on a ship for weeks and weeks was dumb. They should have all returned to Salem much more quickly, rather than playing out faux drama in a parallel universe.

 

ETA

DOOL Red Carpet Event

http://www.soapdom.com/Exclusives/dool-hollywood-premiere-october-28-2003.html

Edited January 13, 2016 by SanDiegoInExile

[QuelleC]

 

The always gorgeous Alison Sweeney mugged it up for the cameras with co-star Brian Datillo, and Peter Reckell (Bo) and Kristian Alfonso (Hope) posed for photo ops in front of the “FUNNY FACE,” their sail boat, which was brought over from the studio as the ultimate Salem prop.

Wow.  Those were the Days, weren't they.  Wait, the Funny Face?

Edited January 13, 2016 by QuelleC

[Irlandesa]

 I hated the serial killer storyline because they killed Jack...again.  (My first fave soap opera character and I am not objective about him.) And I always feel like it's kind of cheap with no thought on the future.  Great soap is built on the past.  But that red carpet event reminded me of the prime time specials DOOL used to do before one of the soap opera awards shows in the 90s. 

 

Specials like "One Stormy Night." There's a Jack and Jennifer reconciliation with banter.  Tortured, twisted and delicious Lawrence and Carly.  (My first couple that was so wrong but felt oh so right.) Tons of action.  Izzy in peril.  (I think I need to rewatch this one later.)

 

Then there was Night Sins where John and Marlena's affair continued and Sami caught them sending her to the dark side. 

 

I do have to hand it to them.  They made those specials count.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Kitty Redstone]

Thank you for posting that link.  Rarely do I have the attention span to sit down and watch things on youtube for any length of time, but I watched all of One Stormy Night plus a bit of the aftermath.  Why aren't the writers who wrote this employed by Days anymore?  It was a pretty awesome episode!  Lots of romance, action and suspense plus a bit of mystery.  Good stuff, but at the same time sad because soaps have been brought so low.   

 

I loved all the sets that were used, the extra long scenes, and the special effects (which were probably because this was a special, right?).  And seeing so many familiar faces when they were 20+ years younger!  Jack and Jennifer were adorable, and I can tell you that I owned damn near the same outfit that Jennifer was wearing.  As a matter of fact, the hot pink coat is probably still around in a rubbermaid bin in the basement.   But anyway, seeing them like that brings up the question of why Ken Corday has crapped all over Matthew Ashford again and again.  It really makes no sense.

 

The non-Christie Clark version of Carrie was a surprise.  I didn't realize the character (except as a youngster) had ever been played by anyone else.  It was also weird to see Bo with someone other than Hope.  I knew that Carly was another of his great loves but had never seen them together. 

 

It was also fun seeing a baby-faced Michael Easton and Wayne Northrop's Roman, both of whom were before my Days-watching time.  I wish JT would retire and WN would come back.  He has charisma out the wazoo.

 

John's ESP face, when he somehow sensed it was Isabella in the river, was hilarious.  Was the baby Isabella was pregnant with Brady?

 

What happened to all the Alamains?  And where was Marlena during this episode? 

 

And there were other prime time specials like this one?