TDS 3.0: Season One Talk

[attica]

This is petty, I know it, but like Barnabas Collins*, I cannot help myself. E-dubs and Hillary were not matching. Hillary's outfit was closer to purple, a lovely shade of periwinkle. Lizzie's was blue. Now, not every human eye can discern the same spectrum of color difference and many many iterations of that footage/photos made the colors look identical -- and I wonder how much of that color 'correcting' was done on purpose -- but they were not.

Wonderful visit by Cox. Full marks.

*The Ben Cross version, not the Frid or Depp.

Edited June 30, 2016 by attica

[ganesh]

The thing about Benghazi though is that congress wouldn't give State et al., the funding they needed to do the right job. They're lucky it wasn't worse. 

Of course everyone is going to talk about what Clinton and Warren wore. Just like a bunch of catty teens would. I was saying right before the picture, "except guys wear the same exact suits all the time since forever."

Did they even consider they wouldn't find anything culpable wrt Clinton/Benghazi? After her 11 hour testimony, then should have ended there. I mean, I get that you want to have *an* investigation about it. Once it was on the record that this was politically motivated though, they had to know it was going to end poorly. Now it's been longer than Watergate and cost much more too. 

I certainly don't feel bad in the least, but they've handed Clinton a huge gift. "I gave 11 hours of testimony, done everything they asked, and after 9 investigations and $7 million, there's nothing. Yes, we should have done better, and I can fix that as president." Her team must be drooling. You don't even have to recriminate. They practically paved the high road for her. 

Edited June 30, 2016 by ganesh

[peeayebee]

I'm voting for Hillary, and I love Elizabeth Warren, but I don't want her to be VP because that'll leave a vacancy in Massachusetts that will likely be filled with a Repub.

Anywho, this was a good one. The thing about Clinton and Warren wearing the same color (which it mostly looked like to me, except when they were down with the crowds) was ridiculous. I esp hated that one guy saying that the were "shrieking." For one thing, I heard no shrieking. For another, of course that's only something that's sad about women.

Loved the PornHub posting of Boris Johnson: "Dumb British blonde fucks 15 million people at once." Whoever posted this is a genius.

The Benghazi report. There's not much to say here except that guy -- I can't remember his name -- was transparent while saying "Read the report" over and over. Loved the graphic "Finding Nothing."

Desi's takedown fact-checking of Trump's speech was wonderful. 

I love Laverne Cox, too. I watched the latest season of OITNB, and she's terrific. I'm curious to see what happens next with her character, but I'll have to wait at least a year. :(

[marceline]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

I'm voting for Hillary, and I love Elizabeth Warren, but I don't want her to be VP because that'll leave a vacancy in Massachusetts that will likely be filled with a Repub.

Thank you. I wish more people realized that. At least Warren's empty seat could be saved by a special election but my senator is Sherrod Brown and every time someone suggests him for VP, I have to remind them that would mean his replacement would be named by John Kasich. That would be a foot up the ass of every Democratic voter in Ohio. I also really don't get the desire to throw our best people at the VP slot. If we must lose them at least let them go to a cabinet position where they can create some real policy. Warren would make a good Labor or Commerce secretary.

What the Actual Fact has become a fave segment of mine. And I've got to hand it to Laverne Cox, she has obviously had serious media training about how to make all of your key points as quickly and succinctly as possible. So many spokespeople for serious issues don't see the value of that.

[annabel]

Laverne Cox seems pretty smart. I'm sure that as soon as she realized she was going to be in the public eye in a big way and would get to make a difference she sought out as much good advice re: speaking and such as she could. 

[peeayebee]

I loved the bit where they zoomed in to see how complicated the handshake was. Very silly and funny.

I had forgotten that Jessica was leaving the show. It was sad seeing her cry.

[ganesh]

I'm astounded at the stupidity of the Sanders --> Trump voters. And their general lack of political awareness. Sanders effectively won. He's pulled Clinton way more to the left. They're not opposite at all and never were. 

*And* how the woman sitting on the top right was doubling down on it all. "That was a trick question." Is it though? If something *Hitler* said sounds like Trump, doesn't that raise a flag?

Ok, if you genuinely don't want to vote for Clinton, you're not obligated. But this seems more like a teenager temper tantrum with way way more consequences. Republicans will hold their nose and vote for Trump, but these people are just being ignorant and spiteful.

[ChelseaNH]

Clinton is evil incarnate and owned by Wall Street -- so let's vote for the rich guy who has finagled the system and swindled people to line his own pockets, just like Wall Street.

[ganesh]

I forgot what Jessica said, I think she was refuting their points with actual facts, but the guy in the front looked like his brain malfunctioned. It's nearly the same as when Jordan did the focus group. 

[nodorothyparker]

Catching up.  The Clinton-Warren/broadcast sexism seguing into the Benghazi wrapup was really nicely done.  Who fucking cares what color their "pants suits" were?  I wonder sometimes if some of these people ever even hear themselves or consider how they sound and then when I see stuff like this I realized that either they don't or they're so ideologically wrapped into their viewpoint that they just don't care.  

Laverne Cox is always amazing and always on point.  I don't know whether she's gotten good help and handling or whether she's naturally this put together, but whatever it is it's working.

I really just can't with Trump voter focus groups anymore.  Nothing that you throw at them is going to register enough to make them realize what colossal tools they sound like ("so yeah, he's kind of racist but ...") and being reminded that people whose entire basis for voting is whichever guy isn't Clinton get to vote just like I do is just depressing in what's already been a crushingly depressing season. 

[Victor the Crab]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The Clinton-Warren/broadcast sexism seguing into the Benghazi wrapup was really nicely done.  Who fucking cares what color their "pants suits" were?  I wonder sometimes if some of these people ever even hear themselves or consider how they sound and then when I see stuff like this I realized that either they don't or they're so ideologically wrapped into their viewpoint that they just don't care.

Probably they do. But then are reminded by their lord and master Roger Ailes the consequences about deviating from his script just a wee bit.

That was a nice sendoff for Jessica. I am so gonna miss JWilly. :...(

[shok]

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

I'm astounded at the stupidity of the Sanders --> Trump voters. And their general lack of political awareness. Sanders effectively won. He's pulled Clinton way more to the left. They're not opposite at all and never were.

Definitely agree about the stupidity of the Sanders/Trump voters but damn I'm tired of hearing how Bernie pulled Clinton way more to the left. It's a glaring example of how incompetent/ignorant/useless our mainstream media is in that they go nuts over the latest squirrel that runs in front of them (see anything that comes out of Trump's piehole) instead of informing their readers/listeners. Hillary has always been very liberal and has worked her whole life for causes that the media deems are left-leaning because Bernie suddenly made them popular. You can look at her website and see policy statements posted before Bernie got into the race and they're no different than what she's espousing today and has been all through the primaries. For dog's sake, she and Bernie voted the same way 93% of the time when they were in the Senate. She hasn't been pulled left - she was always there!

I have been very disgruntled about the show for a long time now and their constant negativity towards Clinton. It makes me long for the days of Jon Stewart when the show's commentary was smart and intelligent and snappy funny. It seems to me it's gone to cheap laughs at the expense of intelligent satire. It used to lead the way in making people think and I honestly think their mockery of the media served a useful purpose in society. I really miss that.

[possibilities]

What I think is happening is that not everyone is making rational decisions. The facts are not relevant. If you are driven by an overwhelming ID, you may just vote for whoever resonates with your inarticulate emotional soup. I think Trump is tapping into something that is not going to yield to logic, because a lot of his supporters (like the Sanders-to-Trump people on last night's panel) do not operate out of a logical place. Although, some I do think support him because they consciously agree with his bigotry, I think some are just reflexively reacting to his anger and his lack of typical politician veneer. The medium is the message.

With TDS, I agree they're not getting deep into the details or fighting any unique battles lately. If Trevor has an insight, like how we are here vs how people are in South Africa, he shares it. And the show is able to express a general dismay at the state of the world and a general support for certain issues. But in this season when even the MSM and members of Congress are spluttering in shock and horror at what is happening, it's not as necessary or fulfilling to come to TDS for a nightly palate cleanse because you can get it a lot of other places all day long.

I wish they had more to say, but I think also that Jon often coasted on a general outrage, too, and it just felt more meaningful because he was the only one doing it. When he took on any issue proactively, in depth, it was wonderful. But a lot of nights he was just basically running FOX news clips the way TDS now runs Trump pronouncements.

[Gulftastic]

I hope we get Jessica's show over here in the UK. We get John Oliver's, but not Sam Bee's. I am going to miss Jess. Goes without saying that she has been the best correspondent for some time.

Boris Johnson has always been a disgraceful fraud. His walking away from the mess he helped create is just his latest offence.

[angora]

Sweet sendoff for Jessica, and what a great final piece for her - those Sanders-Trump supporters freaked me out.  When one of them argued, "It's not a vote FOR Trump, it's AGAINST Hillary," I just thought, "Have you people learned NOTHING from Brexit?!"

[marceline]

14 hours ago, shok said:

Definitely agree about the stupidity of the Sanders/Trump voters but damn I'm tired of hearing how Bernie pulled Clinton way more to the left. It's a glaring example of how incompetent/ignorant/useless our mainstream media is in that they go nuts over the latest squirrel that runs in front of them (see anything that comes out of Trump's piehole) instead of informing their readers/listeners. Hillary has always been very liberal and has worked her whole life for causes that the media deems are left-leaning because Bernie suddenly made them popular. You can look at her website and see policy statements posted before Bernie got into the race and they're no different than what she's espousing today and has been all through the primaries. For dog's sake, she and Bernie voted the same way 93% of the time when they were in the Senate. She hasn't been pulled left - she was always there!

I have been very disgruntled about the show for a long time now and their constant negativity towards Clinton. It makes me long for the days of Jon Stewart when the show's commentary was smart and intelligent and snappy funny. It seems to me it's gone to cheap laughs at the expense of intelligent satire. It used to lead the way in making people think and I honestly think their mockery of the media served a useful purpose in society. I really miss that.

Agree on all points. I find the Clinton shade on this show (and The Nightly Show) really disappointing. It's cheap, easy, and ignores her record.

2 hours ago, angora said:

Sweet sendoff for Jessica, and what a great final piece for her - those Sanders-Trump supporters freaked me out.  When one of them argued, "It's not a vote FOR Trump, it's AGAINST Hillary," I just thought, "Have you people learned NOTHING from Brexit?!"

I assume that panel was taped before Brexit. I hope that they learned from that.

[ganesh]

I'd be rather surprised if the panel knew anything about brexit with the stinking ignorance wafting off my screen.

[needschocolate]

On 7/1/2016 at 6:53 PM, possibilities said:

What I think is happening is that not everyone is making rational decisions. The facts are not relevant. If you are driven by an overwhelming ID, you may just vote for whoever resonates with your inarticulate emotional soup. I think Trump is tapping into something that is not going to yield to logic, because a lot of his supporters (like the Sanders-to-Trump people on last night's panel) do not operate out of a logical place. Although, some I do think support him because they consciously agree with his bigotry, I think some are just reflexively reacting to his anger and his lack of typical politician veneer. The medium is the message.

For years, I have said that, if there is ever someone running for president who isn't a career politician and doesn't let the party leaders call the shots, I will vote for him/her. I was tired of the pandering, polished soundbites, lying, hypocrisy, and even the ridiculous hand gestures they make when giving speeches.   Then came Trump, and, being a person with any IQ above 63, I realized that  I didn't have to stick to my "promise." He may not be paying much attention to what party leaders want, and his soundbites are not what most would call polished Inflamatory is the adjective that comes to mind), but Trump embodies more of what I dislike about politicians than any career politician I can think of. Plus, his hand gestures may not be the typical ones,but they are more ridiculous.

[ruby24]

At this point, I really don't think it's responsible or funny to imply in any way that electing Hillary is just as bad as electing Trump. We're on the verge of catastrophe with one of those people and it's not her. Not cool, Noah.

Maybe it's easier for him to be blase about it because he's not American or something, but I'm scared as fuck that we could possibly elect Trump.

Edited July 7, 2016 by ruby24

[shok]

That's it. I'm done. I turned it off after five minutes. If I wanted to watch Fox News I would, but I don't, so I won't watch TDS either. Oh how I long for Jon and how he would have made hay with the right wing hysterics but instead it's Trevor doing their work for them. Waaah. What am I going to do with my 11:00 half hour from now on? Having watched this show for so many years, I'm automatically programmed for it. :(

[ruby24]

Yeah, that's sort of where I'm at too. I know they want to knock both sides and Hillary's an easy target, but to equate them as equally bad, like there'd be no difference, which is what they did tonight...I think that's bordering on reckless and irresponsible and easy to say if you're a person of privilege who really will be fine under a President Trump. Not so for everyone else, dude. This is like, end-times we're talking about and there's no room for games like both of them suck, ha ha. Nope. ONE is the apocalypse (see video of his psychotic lunacy in action at his rally tonight). The other is a typical politician who made a mistake with her emails. There's no comparison and I feel like we can't risk turning people off from voting.

[Victor the Crab]

Agreed with everyone talking about Trevor's attacks on Hillary Clinton the last two nights. Especially when you consider A) She really wasn't found guilty of any criminal wrongdoing, hence no charges to be layed against her, and B) James Comey acted like the Republican hack that he is making it sound like Clinton was up to no good when she really wasn't. Not very cool on your part, Trevor.

[Victor the Crab]

FURTHER ADDING: Trevor's opinion that Clinton and Drumph are each other's best shot at winning the White House is bull fucking shit! We can all see Trevor was a Bernie Sanders fan. But Sanders would have been ill ready to become the Democrat's nominee for president, especially given how his campaign unfolded. Drumph would have made him flustered and short fused with his trolling methods. So yeah, mega lame on your part, Trevor. Jon may have had issues with Clinton, but even he would never have tried to frame the candidates like that!

[DXD526]

Nice to see so many here agree. I, too, turned off the show after five minutes last night. If I want to watch relentless Clinton bashing, I'll turn on Faux News. 

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, ruby24 said:

At this point, I really don't think it's responsible or funny to imply in any way that electing Hillary is just as bad as electing Trump. We're on the verge of catastrophe with one of those people and it's not her. Not cool, Noah.

I thought the opening piece was terribly misinformed. If you really listen to Comey, there's a lot of speculative statements. He knew himself that a court would expect more details to back that up. Clinton doesn't do herself any favors sometimes, but I'm highly doubtful she deliberately mishandled information. With everything being classified nowadays, it's not possible to not screw up. Now there's an investigation into Comey. 

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

There's no comparison and I feel like we can't risk turning people off from voting.

Someone else said in another thread that younger people are turned off from voting for Clinton because they've been under investigation for some "scandal" or another, for literally their (the young people) entire lives. 

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I thought the opening piece was terribly misinformed. If you really listen to Comey, there's a lot of speculative statements. He knew himself that a court would expect more details to back that up. Clinton doesn't do herself any favors sometimes, but I'm highly doubtful she deliberately mishandled information. With everything being classified nowadays, it's not possible to not screw up. Now there's an investigation into Comey. 

Someone else said in another thread that younger people are turned off from voting for Clinton because they've been under investigation for some "scandal" or another, for literally their (the young people) entire lives. 

Right. They need to ask themselves why nothing has stuck. Maybe there's a reason for that. Is she the most amazing criminal mastermind of all time, able to elude getting caught over 25 years of illegal activity? Or has she been the target of witchunt after witchunt after witchunt, over and over again even though there's nothing to uncover?

I just think Noah missed the boat on this.

Edited July 7, 2016 by ruby24

[marceline]

One of the things that started to turn me off about the end of Jon's tenure was that his anger at both sides made him start falling into lazy false equivalence but this went far beyond that. I know that the Bernie Sanders demo is their target but TDS isn't doing anyone any favors when it panders to simplistic thinking. Between this and Larry Wilmore's utter inability to stop talking about Clinton's affair (It's 2016 Larry. Catch up.) Comedy Central seems to have decided that the strategy is to shovel the bullshit instead of cut through it which is what I used to watch these shows for. Hillary Clinton is a longtime public servant with flaws. Donald Trump is a demented white power fascist who worships dictators. Presenting them as the same thing is irresponsible.

[possibilities]

I am glad TDS is not just giving Hillary a pass on her failings. You can't be a gadfly if you're always kissing ass.

I just can't accept the idea that Hillary is just too naive to understand how email security works. If she was, she would have been briefed when becoming Secretary of State. I mean, c'mon. She tries to portray herself as the competent candidate, but she can't even follow protocol for classified info?

I said what I thought about this BS over on the Nightly Show forum earlier, so I won't repeat some of the things I already mentioned about it that strike me as particularly disingenuous, but either way I think that if we don't want to accept excuses from Republicans, we can't expect Dems to get a pass either.

Sure, I'd rather have Clinton than Trump, but that doesn't mean I have to pretend she's not full of shit when she's full of shit. The Clintons are shameless in expecting to be treated as royalty who are above the law and have no need to follow the rules of mere mortals. Just because the Republicans nominated a raving narcissistic racist hate-mongering incoherent blowhard doesn't mean the Dems didn't also shit the bed.

We all let it go when Clinton 1 got blown by an intern, which would normally be considered sexual misconduct and would disgust us if we found out W or another Republican had done it (even Megyn Kelly understands how this shit works), plus "welfare reform" and "sentencing reform" and "super-predators" and NAFTA in the 90s, to the current "I think I'll meet with the AG in private, even though my spouse is under investigation, because I'm too dumb to realize how that will look" to the Wall Street speeches which are none of the public's business (did she say something like Romney's 47% remark?) and "I found it more convenient to use my own private server instead of secure government server for government business, and it's just an oopsy that I didn't follow the rules."

Hillary would be much better than Trump for the Supreme Court, Planned Parenthood/no more coat hangers, LGBT rights (she apparently was a terrific ally to trans people when she was Secretary of State, which I give her genuine credit and appreciation for), not aggressively alienating 100% of the rest of the world other than Putin, and I agree with her more than Trump on numerous other issues as well, but she's not perfect, and I think it's fair to call her out on it when she's wrong. If we took wrongs like this more seriously, and didn't let people get away with it, maybe we wouldn't be compromising so much every single election day. I also hate how she is basically playing the dumb blonde card to get around this issue, when the last thing we need is to have a president who claims ditz privileges whenever caught doing something wrong.

I don't think we can be sure what Jon would say if he were in Trevor's shoes. He was often accused of promoting "false equivalence" but he recently made a fairly scathing assessment of Hillary (before Comey's report was released), and I think Trevor has been actually far less guilty of looking for ways to "even the score"-- and he makes fewer dick jokes, which I also appreciate.

If TDS viewers are going to vote for Trump after watching last night's show, they were going to vote for Trump anyway. I just don't think it was that skewed against Clinton relative to Trump, not at all! If anything, it was a comment on how we have this particular system that's forcing us into a choice we don't even want. I think it's interesting that we have scheduled elections and winner-takes-all vs a parliamentary system which privileges coalition-building and elections that get called with less lead time and resignations happen at politically significant times.

I've also long thought it was interesting that while we all (including me) tend to see the Republican charges of Clinton corruption as desperate attempts to undermine the Democrats, there was never a whisper of suggestion of corruption against Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama, the two most recent non-Clinton Democratic leaders. They definitely hate Obama, but they haven't tried to sell the corruption narrative. It's not the go-to accusation for all Dems. I'd like to see that seriously looked at, because part of being a politician is about the image you project, and the Clintons seem to bring this same accusation to themselves over and over again. The Republicans manage to disagree with and oppose even Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders without calling them corrupt-- the complaints against them are remarkably policy-based (except for Trump, who hurls ad hominems at everyone and even the Repub establishment finds it embarrassing).

Anyway, I have found TDS fairly bland lately, but I was actually glad they decided not to bite the party line this time.

[ganesh]

22 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Right. They need to ask themselves why nothing has stuck.

And TDS needs to not just parrot the same tired erroneous narrative either, since so many watch the show. 

[zxy556575]

I managed to get through the segment on Hillary but my stomach was clenching the whole time. She's waffled and deflected and manipulated her answers over the months, but to equate her with Trump in any capacity made me want to fly to NY and kick Trevor in the shins.

What gripes me most about the email shitstorm is that numerous politicians and bureaucrats of both parties have done the exact same thing with regard to selectively releasing their correspondence, using private servers, and sending classified information through unsecured non-governmental accounts. But somehow when Hillary does it, it's cause for yet another fucking investigation. It reminds me quite vividly of the extreme and unfair scrutiny that was directed at the last female Democratic candidate on a presidential ticket, Geraldine Ferraro.

[marceline]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I've also long thought it was interesting that while we all (including me) tend to see the Republican charges of Clinton corruption as desperate attempts to undermine the Democrats, there was never a whisper of suggestion of corruption against Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama, the two most recent non-Clinton Democratic leaders. They definitely hate Obama, but they haven't tried to sell the corruption narrative.

Yes they have. They call it Chicago politics. They question his birthplace and patriotism. They never stop talking about Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers and Louis Farrakhan. Remember when they kept harping on the fact that Michelle went to school with someone who worked at the company that built the Obamacare website? The difference in how they went after the Obamas vs the Clintons is that they chose to incorporate racist/religious dog whistles but since the Clintons are white they can't use those so they stick to sex and "corruption." It's different tactics for different targets but not because one group is more deserving of it. It's simply a matter of efficacy.

I thought I made my peace with the fact that TDS was going to be anti-Hillary but I'm not going to watch if they are going to be stupid. There's plenty of other places I can go for stupid television. Is TOSH still on the air?

Edited July 7, 2016 by marceline

[formerlyfreedom]

Episode discussion please.

[ganesh]

If TDS is going on and on about how either choice is so bad, what do they think a Clinton presidency is going to look like that is so bad?

[angora]

I'm still trying to decide how I feel about it.  Like possibilities said, Trump being a toxic waste dump of a racist con man is no reason to give Clinton a free pass, and as uncomfortable as the email stories have been the past couple of days, I really don't think the intention is to suggest that Clinton is in any way as bad as Trump, not nearly.  To some extent, I feel like the story here overshot the mark of the point it was trying to make, which is that a lot of people are dissatisfied with both candidates, and, by giving roughly equal time in the story last night to criticizing both candidates (although there was further Trump stuff in the next segment,) the show made it feel like a false equivalence even if that wasn't necessarily what they're going for.

For instance, with the line about how both candidates are against the only person they could potentially beat, I've had similar thoughts about that that have nothing to do with Clinton being as bad as Trump.  Rather, I knew going in that Clinton would have a hard time getting elected.  Before you even start considering the pros and cons with her record/policies (because, like any politician, she's going to have both positives and negatives,) you have to acknowledge that some people won't vote for her explicitly because she's a woman, as well as others who subconsciously hold her to more exacting standards due to the "you have to be twice as good to get half as much" idea, don't like the baggage associated with the Clinton name, or don't like Obama and think she'll be more of the same.  In light of all that, I knew she was going to have an uphill battle regardless, and I've been going back and forth on whether I think going up against Trump will help her get elected, because he's such an obvious shitshow, or if the various external reasons why a subset of the population won't vote for her will be enough to give Trump the edge he needs to beat her.  Whether it was the show's intention or not, that sort of hope/fear is what went through my mind when Trevor brought up the incredibly-troubling close nature of the race.

And for me, I still mostly think the show's coverage of Clinton doesn't try to equate her with Trump.  In a lot of the pieces that look critically at her, the prevailing impression I get is one of, "Come ON, Hillary, why do you keep doing shit like this?  You should have this in the bag!", more like the show is disappointed at her tendency to do herself no favors than anything else.  Especially in the story on Tuesday, much of the focus was on the Clintons' (particularly Bill) misguided reaction to the scandal, which made them look worse.

However, I do think the pair of email stories are missing part of what's going on here, and I'm not sure why that is.  Past coverage of the scandal has framed it as a bad judgment call that was poorly handled after she was called out on it, but they've also emphasized that it would be dangerously short-sighted to view it as a valid reason to vote for Trump.  The show has also recognized the dog-with-a-bone nature of repeated investigations bound and determined to blame her for Benghazi, so I'm not sure why they didn't look more discerningly at Comey's statements and consider that similar factors might be at play here.  Because even though I agree with Trevor that being investigated by the FBI would be a major blow to a campaign in a normal election, I also have my doubts that many other politicians in comparable positions would have GARNERED an FBI investigation over the issue.  Long story short, I think the show was right to criticize her for wrongdoing, but I think they're failing to properly gauge the scale of that wrongdoing because they're not looking at the extraneous issues influencing the situation and the conversation surrounding it.

[possibilities]

I do agree that, if Trevor had been here longer, he would have had more of a historical perspective on the situation-- and that would help make the coverage more nuanced. There being no one else in the writing staff who could support that is what's really troubling-- what are they there for, if not to add perspective?

[ganesh]

From what I saw in the opening piece was: Look at these candidates, no one likes them, and they are terrible. You shouldn't have the election. 

That's kind of a false equivalency from my pov. 

There's a lack of a larger context. 

3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Right. They need to ask themselves why nothing has stuck. Maybe there's a reason for that. Is she the most amazing criminal mastermind of all time, able to elude getting caught over 25 years of illegal activity? Or has she been the target of witchunt after witchunt after witchunt, over and over again even though there's nothing to uncover?

[possibilities]

Obviously we are going to have the election. What I got was: both candidates have high negatives, and it's almost comical how inept they each are at making their case and winning over the population. Too bad Obama can't stay!

It's schadenfreude.

Honestly, I personally would rather we didn't have to have the election and Obama could stay a little longer. I guess that for me, although the situation feels very scary, I basically agreed with the premise of the joke, in the way that I personally understood it.

I respect that not everyone took it the way I did, and that many disliked it. I'm just trying to understand what we each actually thought was being said, to explain why we all reacted in our various ways.

[peeayebee]

9 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

Trevor's opinion that Clinton and Drumph are each other's best shot at winning the White House is bull fucking shit!

I liked that line and think it's basically true. Obviously there are many Dems who would vote for Hillary no matter who the Repub nominee was, and vice versa for the Repubs. The point is, each candidate has such hardcore haters that you'd figure the other candidate would be a shoe-in, but then the other one is hateful too. 

 

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I just can't accept the idea that Hillary is just too naive to understand how email security works. If she was, she would have been briefed when becoming Secretary of State. I mean, c'mon. She tries to portray herself as the competent candidate, but she can't even follow protocol for classified info?

I found this article from Newsweek pretty informative.

Quote

There is also an enormous difference between a secretary of state sending an email to someone inside the department and that same email being released to the general public. Put simply, as anyone who has filed a request for a document under the FOIA knows, not every email or other item can be handed out, even if it was not originally deemed to be so confidential that it required SCIF procedures. The determination of what State Department documents can be publicly released is handled by the FOIA staff, both in the State Department and, when deemed appropriate, by officials with the same duties in the intelligence community. In fact, the entire issue right now regarding the emails of every secretary of state concerns which ones can be released under the FOIA.

 

Anyway, I loved the bit with Trump's cabinet department, where each one was Trump, often contradicting himself. It's mind-boggling that someone can run for President and not know how things work, like naming your cabinet AFTER being elected. And, geez: "I'm speaking with myself, no. 1, because I have a very good brain."

The segment about Rio was good. I hadn't heard about the police greeting people at the airport with "Welcome to Hell."

[marceline]

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

The segment about Rio was good. I hadn't heard about the police greeting people at the airport with "Welcome to Hell."

 

Everything about the Rio Olympics breaks my heart. I can't imagine what it is like to work for something like this your whole life then have to wonder about sewage, Zika, and/or getting killed in the street.

[atomationage]

I thought I would give this show another chance, but that's not going to happen.  I only watched a few minutes of this nonsense.  Is Roger Ailes running this show?   Unbelievable.   Trevor Noah can take a flying leap. 

[formerlyfreedom]

Not liking the direction the show is taking is fine to discuss. Not agreeing with someone who has a different opinion is fine.

What's not fine; posts that have nothing to do with the show or posts that are simply angry or inflamed responses to someone whose opinion you don't agree with.

We've allowed a lot of leeway to this point. Going forward, long posts that pay only lip service to 'talking about the show' are going to be deleted. Posts with nothing about the show are going to be deleted, as will posts that attack another poster. Repeat offenders will be warned, and then face further penalties. It's okay to disagree with someone. Keep it respectful and keep it about the show.

[topanga]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

Obviously we are going to have the election. What I got was: both candidates have high negatives, and it's almost comical how inept they each are at making their case and winning over the population. Too bad Obama can't stay!

It's schadenfreude.

Honestly, I personally would rather we didn't have to have the election and Obama could stay a little longer. I guess that for me, although the situation feels very scary, I basically agreed with the premise of the joke, in the way that I personally understood it.

I respect that not everyone took it the way I did, and that many disliked it. I'm just trying to understand what we each actually thought was being said, to explain why we all reacted in our various ways.

That's exactly what I got from the segment. I don't think Trevor was equating Clinton with Trump. He was saying that this election features candidates who both have issues with honesty, credibility, and they're both dealing with scandals. How many times have we heard Trevor say that Trump being elected president would be a living hell? And I agree with him. Neither candidate excites me, but I'll certainly vote for Hillary over Trump. 

[shok]

10 hours ago, marceline said:

Comedy Central seems to have decided that the strategy is to shovel the bullshit instead of cut through it which is what I used to watch these shows for.

Bingo!

[peeayebee]

Seeing those two shootings by police was so disturbing, maddening, frustrating.... You name it. I was most upset by the first one, Alton Sterling, whom him see shot when he's on the ground with two policemen on top of him. I just don't even know what to say. I then watched another video, from some time back, which was a traffic cop where a policeman kept shouting, "Why are you going for my gun!" and so forth. Then with the Sterling video, one cop says, "He's got a gun." It's like they're verbalizing their excuses to shoot.

Also telling is that the NRA is silent. Both men had licenses for their guns. 

Things need to change. I just don't know.

Things are so slimy over at Fox. Ailes is just sliming all over it. He's Slimer. He actually looks like Slimer, maybe even more than Jabba the Hut.

[Victor the Crab]

I'd love to see Roger Ailes go down. But I'm not about to give praise to Gretchen Carlson for doing what she did. For a long time, she was a willing and well paid stooge who did a lot of damage for Ailes in assassinating the truth and creating false narratives, like how Christians in America were victimized and under constant attack when they absolutely were not. Jon did plenty of these stories to back that up. Carlson is Sammy Gravano to Ailes' John Gotti.

Great opening by Trevor about the senseless shootings of African American males by the police. Yet I'm already seeing comments in other sites about how the victims were the ones at fault for resisting the police. Where is there hope to fix these things?

[angora]

Both these shootings make me so sad.  Philando Castile (from Minnesota) was pulled over for a broken light.  According to his girlfriend, he disclosed to the officer that he had a conceal-and-carry permit and reached for his ID when instructed.  It just makes me sick.  I thought Trevor did really well in talking about both shootings.  I liked that he compared the issue to catcalling as something he'd heard about but didn't truly believe was a pervasive problem until he saw the evidence himself, and the point about video being dismissed as reliable evidence only when the cop's actions are being questioned was an excellent one.  I also liked his comments about feeling the need to "take sides" in American culture and reiterating that being pro-Black doesn't mean you're anti-cop.

That montage of objectification and misogyny on Fox News was majorly skeevy - so gross.  No matter what Gretchen Carlson has done/said while working there, she has a right not to be sexually harassed on the job.

[ganesh]

55 minutes ago, angora said:

That montage of objectification and misogyny on Fox News was majorly skeevy - so gross.

I'm not all delicate, but I was rather shocked at what was said on the air.

The "do you speak english joke" was funny.

[marceline]

1 hour ago, angora said:

That montage of objectification and misogyny on Fox News was majorly skeevy - so gross.  No matter what Gretchen Carlson has done/said while working there, she has a right not to be sexually harassed on the job.

 

Agreed but I'm glad they also showed that she was part of the problem. She's never had any problem throwing other women under the bus when the agenda called for it. We saw the same thing with Megyn Kelly who suddenly decided that paid parental leave mattered when she needed it.

It's interesting that segment came right after Trevor made such a good point about some situations don't have to be mutually exclusive. I look at Gretchen's lawsuit and see two horrible people.

[nodorothyparker]

One of the things I will give Trevor credit for is having the "Really, guys, really?  This is really how we run a country?" schtick down.  I don't know if he'll ever be able to pull off Jon Stewart's general outrage and anger, but in the later years as you could see he was getting tired it often felt like that was the well Jon went to by default.  The police shootings piece was very well done pulling in the comparisons to the catcalling video and not understanding something until you could see it and the zoo gorilla shooting, where one incident was enough for everyone involved to take a step back and look at what they needed to do better.  I also really like calling out America's you're with us or against us culture because Facebook and just public discussion in general has been maddening the last couple of days even before the Dallas shootings.  I don't understand how we've become so simple as people as to think that it's impossible to hold more than one thought in your head at any given time.  It's entirely possible to be disgusted and horrified that a man can be murdered in front of a child over a taillight while doing everything right AND be equally horrified that anyone would think opening fire on police officers at a peaceful protest is any kind of solution.

The Fox News montage was indeed skeevy.  I knew about the all women on air in short skirts all the time thing, but to see it compiled like that was something else.  While I hope Carlson is successful in her suit, I'm glad too to see her not be let off the hook for her part in it or held up as some kind of sudden feminist icon.  That's been the really frustrating thing with Megyn "Jesus and Santa are white, kids" Kelly with some on the left.  Every time she takes a position that lines up with theirs, usually because it personally benefits her, suddenly people who otherwise would disagree with almost everything about her are high fiving her for not speaking almost entirely in clicks and dog whistles.

[Temperance]

I actually agree with Noah that Clinton and Trump are each other's best chances.  I certainly think Trump being such a nightmare is increasing Hillary's chance. I think there are a lot of people who don't like and never have and will be supporting Hillary and they might vote for Trump.  

The Daily Show, under Noah, has long made it clear they're supporting Hillary. She's been their favorite for a long time. Noah says he's a progressive not a liberal and I think Bernie was too liberal for him.  Noah seemed to think Bernie was an out-of-touch old man telling fairy tales. As a Bernie supporter and a Hillary supporter, I have been disappointed that so much of their coverage has been biased against him. For months, they ignored him until it was clear he was going to lose.   (Side note: I think Stewart would have been way more pro-Bernie than Noah was. I can't prove it of course. I saw did see Stewart talking about Hillary a few months ago and it was not particularly kind or flattering.) 

This show has been mocking Trump and calling out Trump on a long list of issues for the better part of all the time they've been on the air (since Noah took over.)

I like Hillary and I don't want (and won't vote for) Trump.  That being said, I think the segment about the emails was valid. I think that as a comedy show with interest in political satire has to work with what is around them. Larry made an interesting point when he pointed out MSNBC (and not Faux news) was leading the email-coverage. I don't think Noah was trying to imply Hillary is the same as Trump, I think he meant to say the election is hopeless. Anyone watching this show knows Noah and the show can't stand Trump. As someone who watches the show, the context I guess is different.

 Less than 2 months  back they did a piece where Michelle Wolf staunchly defended Hillary on her email server. (The episode was May 26, 2016).  I recommend this episode to people who didn't like Wednesday's. 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Temperance