S06.E10: Game Over, Charles

[Cranberry]

I agree that it's okay to wonder when CeCe transitioned, as we've been trying to determine a timeline and see if this reveal fits with the clues we've been shown over the past few years. Unfortunately, it looks like the writers didn't put any thought into making this story at all realistic... which a very bad thing when they're dealing with something as important as their show's one transgender character.

[Perfect Xero]

ETA: Also can someone point me in the direction of getting these characters/ages? I see people saying that Jason/Melissa etc is supposed to be 7 years older than the Liars but for some reason I thought it was 4 years. Thanks!

 

I don't know if there are other sources or not, but in the episode in Season 2 where Spencer and Toby discover the NAT club, they're looking in Ian's Rosewood High 2005 yearbook (in what appears to be the Senior section), which is where they find Ian, Jason, and Garrett have NAT club listed under their pictures. This makes them seniors 7 years before the girls would be seniors.

 

In last seasons finale (Welcome to the Dollhouse), when they're getting ready for A's "prom", Aria observes that all the songs are from 7 years ago, and Spencer realizes the theme for the prom is the same as the last prom Melissa took Ian to.

[fitzcarraldo]

I'm equally dismayed they didn't address the murder-suicide Cece was working on until Scooby Spencer meddled. Why did Cece choose now to give up? Was it as Tanner and Ezra said that the police were closing in? Why did Cece put Ali in prison????! But also wanted her for the doll house. The doll house was not made on a whim yet the coulda been murder of boo boo freezer negates all that plotting. Emily was not guaranteed to save them in time. Did Cece not know Caleb could have died in that kiln? Was A whimming it but also detail planning like stealing personal possessions over a period of time? And Sara was kidnapped but Cece was in Radley at the same time? Dollhouse had to have been waaaaaay back in that case. Why not take dead Ali ? No one would know to miss an officially dead girl. But then only thought of A meeting Mona in Radley but also had Sara before that happened?

[MinionBooty]

I consider myself a very good multi-tasked... but A is really good. And in a black hoodie! And without Ezra ever getting even an idea.......

 

Thank you for the link Cranberry. I too have never really had this discussion in my life circles. But as  a mom trying to raise a responsible and respectful child(if i can get her to clean her room) in todays world it is every bit as relevant as any other civil rights movement.  Every person has a right to live their own lives in peace as long as they do no harm to others around them.  

 

IF Cece had been shown to struggle with her issues that came along with being a transgender her rights to change and her mental state, then we might be discussing a whole different issue to this finale. If the had showed mom and dad talking about this and little Cece watching, crying or mad......... If they had showed Jason saying hurtful mean things to Cece. And If they had show or told us the other things CeCe had done BEFORE the baby in the bathtub(and everything else aside is it possible for that brown haired baby to be that blonde as she got older?)that made her dad so afraid... then her being a transgender woman and being crazy, might not be what we were all talking about days later.

 

Just my thoughts

[CloudySky]

Why did we never see Cece or get a hint of her at Radley if she was a patient at the same time as Mona? Would Wren know about her since he worked there?

 

 

I vaguely recall some storyline about a visitors badge that was discovered with her name on it. Hanna asks Wren if someone's been visiting Mona and he says the nurses told him a blonde girl has been visiting her but he thought they meant Hanna.

 

If the actor is available, I'm sure they'll reveal that Wren was Cece's accomplice. He's the only one who hasn't been "A" yet.

 

Present day is 2013, right?

Jason graduated 7 years prior, 2006.

Cape May happened in 2009, the summer Ali was bashed.

...they dated 3 years oh god

 

I'm going to church now bye

 

Haha, wow. Everything is so blurry in my mind from previous seasons but I'm pretty sure Cece said they dated "that summer" right?? Wait, didn't she date Eric Kahn during that time too?

 

The yearbook photo...she could have hacked into the database to add that caption to her photo. She is apparently obsessed with prom so of course she'd put "prom queen".

 

The Dilaurentis family must be pretty rich if Jessica could syphon huge funds unnoticed...Would it be hard to get hormones and surgery on the black market? She could have taken her out of the country or bought off a surgeon. If "dream logic" and "creative licence" are valid explanations, anything can be explained away...

 

[MinionBooty]

I saw a story about young teens buying black market hormones.

 

Hands anyone? Who think next season will be all about explaining how this finale came to be? I don't see anyone way not to. Effectively with her asinine comments on what you must be if you don't like the decision, she has basically offended everyone. Well except the ezra/Aria people.

Edited August 13, 2015 by MinionBooty

[raytch]

I vaguely recall some storyline about a visitors badge that was discovered with her name on it. Hanna asks Wren if someone's been visiting Mona and he says the nurses told him a blonde girl has been visiting her but he thought they meant Hanna.

If the actor is available, I'm sure they'll reveal that Wren was Cece's accomplice. He's the only one who hasn't been "A" yet.

Haha, wow. Everything is so blurry in my mind from previous seasons but I'm pretty sure Cece said they dated "that summer" right?? Wait, didn't she date Eric Kahn during that time too?

The yearbook photo...she could have hacked into the database to add that caption to her photo. She is apparently obsessed with prom so of course she'd put "prom queen".

The Dilaurentis family must be pretty rich if Jessica could syphon huge funds unnoticed...Would it be hard to get hormones and surgery on the black market? She could have taken her out of the country or bought off a surgeon. If "dream logic" and "creative licence" are valid explanations, anything can be explained away...

I read in one of the million articles and interviews floating around that Wren is not an accomplice and was never a suspect. If he was helping Cece then he did it unknowingly...

How could Melissa, Ian, garnett and co not think it's weird that Cece never wear to their school but was somehow prom queen on their yearbooks?

[Sakura12]

Because its one of the many holes in their I'm so clever shock of making Cece A and Charles.

[MinionBooty]

To believe Cece could have never been suspected would be to dumb down the nosiest most pain in the butt characters ever created. Basically say everyone suspected echelon else of doing all these god awful things except the chick that they were told was awful a weird.

[crystalflame]

Hands anyone? Who think next season will be all about explaining how this finale came to be? I don't see anyone way not to. Effectively with her asinine comments on what you must be if you don't like the decision, she has basically offended everyone. Well except the ezra/Aria people.

Nope. IMK will do what she always does: not apologize for anything, force her fans to swallow the plot holes by never addressing them again, create two episodes per half-season that advance the plot, and 8-10 episodes that involve the girls looking shocked, getting locked in rooms in sketchy places they weren't supposed to be, and having relationship drama/dancing and making out when they're supposed to be worrying about A.

For real, if the rest of this show is a bunch of grown-ass women still getting themselves locked in rooms and not going to the police for help, I quit. Not that I have much hope, since the moms did the exact same thing and are still locked in Ali's basement.

[MinionBooty]

Sigh. You are probably right.

 

I can hope Hannah spending all that time with Caleb would wise up. Aria with out Ezra seems to have a brain.....

 

I am more worried about how much drivel and whining we will have to endure so Sara can plead her way back into Em's pants.

[CloudySky]

I read in one of the million articles and interviews floating around that Wren is not an accomplice and was never a suspect. If he was helping Cece then he did it unknowingly...

How could Melissa, Ian, garnett and co not think it's weird that Cece never wear to their school but was somehow prom queen on their yearbooks?

Yeah but how many times has Marlene lied before?

 

Cece could have explained it away as a prank or something to get under Melissa's skin. Melissa was the ms. perfect and homecoming queen so most likely the actual prom queen.

 

Hmm, is Cece also the one who paid NAT for the videos?

[jane1978]

I really don´t have problem with the CeCe reveal. Given the show is in its sixth season and they already lost most of viable recurring characters who could be used as the main culprit she was probably the smartest choice. She has a long history with Ali and was one of the more memorable quest characters. I really don´t see what beliavable motivation they could use for Wren or Wilden. Wren shortly dated Spencer in season one and hardly knew the girls and probably never even met Ali. And Wilden was just a crooked cop. It´s sad they couldn´t reveal Melissa as the red coat because I always liked her but I think they realized there is no viable connection between this "A" and her so they rather created Sara who as uknown stranger could be simply an anonymous minion who did it for money, or was blackmailed, or whatever. Maybe they will explain more in next season, maybe not. (Probably not, because it seems the character is not very popular)

 

Was that the big reveal planned from episode one? Of course not. I think Marlene even admitted somewhere they didn´t agree on this "A" somewhere until season three. But I really don´t think it´s that important there are some scenes or dialogs from past seasons which contradict the reveal. The important thing is the motivation is beliavable and atleast the big picture somewhat fits. I loved how meta it was, because CeCe was basically us rhe audience. She loved the game, but she never truly wanted to kill the girls, she just wanted to have fun with her dolls. I also loved the newly created scene where she takes over the game from Mona and then the real flaskback to her first scene with PLL. It really made it seem like those two events are connected.

 

That´s the good. The bad is the acting of most except CeCe actress (who amazingly managed to sell almost all of her story and even had some nice "unstable" moments) and the way the reveal was done. Basically, this whole season I had this feeling everyone at TPTB is tired with the "A" mystery and the reveal just confirmed it. They could easily split the reveal into more episodes, maybe have the girls actually find some hints about Charles/Charlene connection or that the rich white guy is just an employee. Yes, it would eliminate most of the male suspects and made the final reveal less shocking but I really don´t think it would hurt the show. Marlene needs to understand there has to be some progress during the season, not 10 episodes of chaising fake leads going nowhere followed by a huge infodump finale.

 

Speaking off, it was really bad idea to have this big virtual TV room as the place of the reveal because it meant the girls had to just film bunch of shocked reactions to nothing. Which looked really fake and stupid. 

 

As for the end, I think this means CeCe could be back OR the girls will atleast believe she is back when someone new starts the game again. The five years jump looks interesting, except all the girls already look and dress like adults so the atempt to underline the difference seemed more like a dress up. But good that they found some use for the old high school set and funny that Ali, played by the only teen the show has, is apparently married. Or widowed? I just hope they will not continue with the Ali the martyr theme. 

[tldryolo]

Was that the big reveal planned from episode one? Of course not. I think Marlene even admitted somewhere they didn´t agree on this "A" somewhere until season three. But I really don´t think it´s that important there are some scenes or dialogs from past seasons which contradict the reveal. The important thing is the motivation is beliavable and atleast the big picture somewhat fits. I loved how meta it was, because CeCe was basically us rhe audience. She loved the game, but she never truly wanted to kill the girls, she just wanted to have fun with her dolls. I also loved the newly created scene where she takes over the game from Mona and then the real flaskback to her first scene with PLL. It really made it seem like those two events are connected.

 

With respect, I disagree and have bolded the crux of my disagreement.  It's okay if there's some things open to interpretation that don't seem to quite fit, or even some minor things they have to flat out retcon because they made a mistake.  It's quite another if every attempt by the audience to figure out the mystery was utterly futile because they were making it up as they go and discard previously established facts.  That's not a mystery-- that's a universe where random things happen for no reason.  The amount of handwaving to justify CeCe being the prom queen of a high school she never attended, Mrs. D relating the anecdote about CeCe/Ali to the liars for seemingly no reason, the shifting timeline of the death of Toby's mother, etc. means that they could have put the name of every character in a hat, pulled it out, and made that person Charlie/Charlotte.  Heck, I always considered the "Aria is secretly A" theory too ludicrous to entertain, but they should have just gone for it if they don't care about plausibility.  It's just as plausible as the CeCe reveal and fits some of the evidence.  Sure, you have to disregard some things-- such as A trying to kill Aria on the Halloween train-- but then you also have to disregard A turning CeCe into the police and several other things for the "actual" answer to work, so why not?  This is like Lost Jr., in that the mystery was never as intriguing, but (amazingly) the reveal is less disappointing.  For all of PLL's flaws, we're not in "magic light in haunted cave" territory.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

I really don´t see what beliavable motivation they could use for Wren or Wilden.

 

The same one they used for Cece? "They disrespected Alison's memory" could be the excuse of any psycho obsessed with Alison, especially considering Wren or Wilden or whoever would presumably still have been Alison's brother. Not that I find it believable in the slightest but technically it could be used for any other suspect.

 

 

Wren shortly dated Spencer in season one and hardly knew the girls and probably never even met Ali. And Wilden was just a crooked cop.

 

But they still knew the Liars better than Cece who hadn't even met them before she decided it would be such fun to torture them.

 

 

I'm equally dismayed they didn't address the murder-suicide Cece was working on until Scooby Spencer meddled. Why did Cece choose now to give up?

 

Yes, they were so busy with all the infodumping that they somehow omitted the insignificant detail as to why the Big Bad suddenly decided to spill the beans and become a suicide bomber.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The thing that I loved about Vanessa's portrayal of Cece in this episode were moments like when she said, "Class was canceled. Okay, I called in a bomb threat." Thank goodness she is one of the best guest star actresses they have had on the show. I imagined the actress who plays Sara trying to pull off any of Cece's lines and cringed. I was really hoping we would be rid of Sara after the midseason finale.

[Cranberry]

I think I would have loved this episode, even despite the egregious timeline screwups, if the whole Charles thing had never happened and we learned that CeCe had been known as Ali's disturbed sister Charlotte all along, institutionalized because she was legitimately endangering Ali's life by treating her like a doll. A lot of her lines were darkly funny, and her offhand delivery of the bomb threat line and her insistence that everything was fine because she didn't actually cut Emily in half were fantastic. I'll need to go back and rewatch now that I'm over the "they're not doing what I think they're doing... oh hell, THEY ARE" reaction. I mean, I still hate that reveal and find it problematic, and I always will, but maybe I can enjoy Vanessa Ray's performance more now that I know what to expect story-wise.

[Jenniferbug]

Agree that Vanessa absolutely spun this shit into gold. She was the most enjoyable thing about this episode, and definitely did her best with what they gave her. The only other actor I could see potentially being as much fun as she was in this awful reveal is Julian Morris, but I'm really glad it wasn't Wren.

[mercfan3]

I agree, Vanessa killed it. To be honest, CeCe has always been one of my favorite characters, so one good thing for me with this reveal is that she'll definitely be around after the time jump. And I'm sure Marlene is going to try and redeem her. 

Edited August 14, 2015 by mercfan3

[MinionBooty]

BUT can you?

 

By trying to redeem  her you, you are saying she has to have remorse first. For this character as she was shown in the finale and in her childhood flashbacks, that is not there on any level. This not just coming to terms with her own actions this is about the characters very essence of right and wrong. The only person she truly loved in way that has anything to do with love was her mother. Every one else were her playthings whom she had no problem with destroying.

 

This show is not long enough to able to show even breaking the first door down on that kind of therapy. Saying over and over she wants and loves her family and then doing the things she did to hurt, and destroy her family, mainly her brother and sister whom never did anything or had anything to do with any of her past trama, is not going to cut it. If they do it, then it s the same magic pill as the Charles/ Cece story.

[SadieT]

Was that cape may vacation also when Cece dates Wilden? (or did Ali and why did they never assess this. Why did Ali think Cece killed Wilden for her?)

If Cece despaired Jessica thought she killed Ali then did she tell her when discovering Ali was alive?

Ali stayed in hiding due to danger. A kept her from going home. Yet Cece says she wanted her back?!

 

I really want to know what went down with Wilden in Cape May. Was he Beach Hottie? Was he the older guy who Ali thought got her pregnant but was too scared of to tell? Well, at least according to CeCe that's what happened, she obviously could have been making the whole pregnancy thing up for fun. CeCe says she killed Wilden for Alison and that Wilden wasn't going to let Ali come home, and the whole point of Sara attending his funeral as black widow was to confirm that he was in fact dead dead and not Rosewood dead, because CeCe was worried he would hurt her sister again, but they never addressed how Wilden hurt Alison. Unless CeCe just meant he hurt Ali by not allowing her to come home because it would poke holes in his cover-up story and his attempt to set the girls up for Alison's non-murder, but that doesn't make much sense because Alison didn't know Wilden was involved in covering anything up. 

 

I'm equally dismayed they didn't address the murder-suicide Cece was working on until Scooby Spencer meddled. Why did Cece choose now to give up? Was it as Tanner and Ezra said that the police were closing in? Why did Cece put Ali in prison????! But also wanted her for the doll house. The doll house was not made on a whim yet the coulda been murder of boo boo freezer negates all that plotting. Emily was not guaranteed to save them in time. Did Cece not know Caleb could have died in that kiln? Was A whimming it but also detail planning like stealing personal possessions over a period of time? And Sara was kidnapped but Cece was in Radley at the same time? Dollhouse had to have been waaaaaay back in that case. Why not take dead Ali ? No one would know to miss an officially dead girl. But then only thought of A meeting Mona in Radley but also had Sara before that happened?

 

This finale really did remind me of a prolonged ending of an episode of Scooby Doo, it was that poorly written. At one point while CeCe is explaining her master-plan she ominously says of the lodge fire, "and it was the perfect plan, until Shauna showed up!" Spoken like a true Scooby Doo villain. They should have just had her say, "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!" 

 

Yeah, it was kind of odd to be that none of the girls, not even Alison, seemed too bothered by the fact that CeCe's plan was to blow her entire family up that night. I don't think the girls were supposed to find them at Radley so I guess they weren't going to get killed, but Ali, Jason and Mr. D were and no one seemed too hung up on that fact. 

 

My problem with CeCe as A, well one of my problems, is that it makes the whole A game unnecessary. If CeCe's intention was to torment the girls to bring Alison out of hiding so she could eventually have her for her dollhouse, why not just call Ali up and be like, "hey wanna grab a cup of coffee that I will lace with a cocktail of drugs that will knock you unconscious so I can drag you to my underground bunker and keep you as a plaything for the rest of your life." We know CeCe and Ali were in contact while Alison was on the run and we've seen CeCe meeting with her a few times. Why not just take her then? Why continue to harass and threaten her and the girls and put her in jail? She had access to Alison and Ali trusted her. She didn't need a master plan, once she found out Alison was alive and started helping her (which, we never did find out how that came about), she had her chance to get Alison and it would have actually been easier and made a lot more sense because no one knew Ali was alive but her, Noel and a couple of others, so if she had kidnapped Ali and put her in the dollhouse before Ali showed herself to the girls and returned to Rosewood, no one would even know Ali was gone and CeCe would easily get away with it and be able to keep Ali all to herself without anyone looking for her.  

 

Hmm, is Cece also the one who paid NAT for the videos?

 

Why would she want videos of Alison and her friends changing? I think we have to accept that the writers will never again address the NAT club videos. 

 

The thing that I loved about Vanessa's portrayal of Cece in this episode were moments like when she said, "Class was canceled. Okay, I called in a bomb threat." Thank goodness she is one of the best guest star actresses they have had on the show. I imagined the actress who plays Sara trying to pull off any of Cece's lines and cringed. I was really hoping we would be rid of Sara after the midseason finale.

 

Vanessa really was great and that couldn't have been easy with the material. I also loved her, "I'm not a bad person, Ali!" line and then when Alison rattles off a teeny tiny fraction of all the horrible things she's done, she just brushes it off with a slightly deranged, "but did they get hurt?!" or something like that. That was hilarious. 

[Perfect Xero]

So, Cece says that she was diagnosed with intermittent explosive disorder because she got blamed for Bethany pushing Toby's mom off the roof, and laughs because it was actually a correct diagnosis for Bethany.

 

But as A she also randomly does things like attack Alison, drive a car into Emily's house, and you know, drop Jason down an elevator shaft. Which makes me think that she actually was accurately diagnosed, and there's a good chance that she really was the one who pushed Toby's mom off the roof that night.

[Cranberry]

I just rewatched. I enjoyed all of the darkly funny lines -- I was hoping for a whole finale like that! I also enjoyed the unintentionally funny stuff like all of the girls just shrugging off Mona's murdering Bethany. I liked the scene with young Bethany and Charlotte on the rooftop, too; I think that both actors did a great job, and it was a sweet scene (up until Bethany shoved Marion off the roof, anyway). I liked Bethany telling Charlotte that she was pretty. I again thought that Vanessa did an excellent job selling everything. I just wish they hadn't gone for the shock factor of making Charlotte trans.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was disappointed that Bethany turned out to be crazy. She was so sweet and accepting with Charlotte on the roof, so when she initially pushed Marion I thought that she did it to protect Charlotte. Then she went totally psycho and blamed him. What the hell? I remember that Sara's friends said that she was a bitch, but did the PLLs ever get in touch with Bethany's friends? Did they say she was a horrible person too?

 

Vanessa totally made the most of her campy lines ("I almost cut Emily in half too, but I didn't!") so I almost want to rewatch just for that.

[jane1978]

With respect, I disagree and have bolded the crux of my disagreement.  It's okay if there's some things open to interpretation that don't seem to quite fit, or even some minor things they have to flat out retcon because they made a mistake.  It's quite another if every attempt by the audience to figure out the mystery was utterly futile because they were making it up as they go and discard previously established facts.  That's not a mystery-- that's a universe where random things happen for no reason.  The amount of handwaving to justify CeCe being the prom queen of a high school she never attended, Mrs. D relating the anecdote about CeCe/Ali to the liars for seemingly no reason, the shifting timeline of the death of Toby's mother, etc. means that they could have put the name of every character in a hat, pulled it out, and made that person Charlie/Charlotte.  Heck, I always considered the "Aria is secretly A" theory too ludicrous to entertain, but they should have just gone for it if they don't care about plausibility.  It's just as plausible as the CeCe reveal and fits some of the evidence.  Sure, you have to disregard some things-- such as A trying to kill Aria on the Halloween train-- but then you also have to disregard A turning CeCe into the police and several other things for the "actual" answer to work, so why not?  This is like Lost Jr., in that the mystery was never as intriguing, but (amazingly) the reveal is less disappointing.  For all of PLL's flaws, we're not in "magic light in haunted cave" territory.

 

It would be ideal if everything fits, yes. But that would also mean the "A" identity would have to be prominently placed on the whiteboard in the screenwriting room, so anyone and everyone involved in the writing is aware of that and can avoid any continuity mistakes. They would never kept the identity hidden for long that way. That´s why longterm mysteries like this can really only work in books with one lonely writer.

 

But I don´t think it´s that hard to explain anything CeCe did or said simply as her purposefully lying and trying to confuse the girls. She could call cops at herself, she had a whole company full of people who could pretend to be "A" or do some "A"-related appointments (too bad we never saw her as the CEO ordering her people around). It´s more complicated with flashbacks, especially between two characters who we now know knew her true identity, but given those flashbacks are mostly retelling to some third party who knows nothing (either Aly or the PLL) we have to assume the interpretation are somewhat twisted (or "dreamy" as the EP said) so what they show us isn´t always what truly happened. 

 

For me, the only case which is impossible to explain would be a scene where CeCe and Mrs. DiLaurentis are alone talking without acknowledging who CeCe really is. Was there any scene like that? I honestly don´t remember. I only remember some things Mrs. DiLaurentis said to PLL´s about CeCe which hinted at her instability and Ali obsession but she was the Mother Liar herself so who knows what game she played. And maybe she was still angry at CeCe because she saw her murder Ali. 

 

Which brings me to an interesting point, because even the reveal itself is again just an interpretation, this time from CeCe´s side, so we don´t know for sure if she is telling the truth or twisting the reality again so others feel sorry for her. Both Mrs. DiLaurentis and Wilden are dead. There is no one who can corroborate her version.  I believe her suicide attempt at the end was completely fake. She never had any intention to jump. And assuming she is not completely forgotten after the time jump, five years is just enough for her to finish some extensive therapy and be released as healthy. So the fun can continue.

[fitzcarraldo]

I don't think it is true it wasn't avoidable. Jk Rowling read the Harry Potter scripts and would tell Kloves if his scripts conflicted with later plot points. If Joss Whedon could do the same for multiple writers and the over all arc then why not imk as show runner. Sara in dollhouse couldn't be a staff writer throwing wrenches in. Big stuff AND small stuff don't fit.

[Jack Shaftoe]

So, Cece says that she was diagnosed with intermittent explosive disorder because she got blamed for Bethany pushing Toby's mom off the roof, and laughs because it was actually a correct diagnosis for Bethany.

 

But as A she also randomly does things like attack Alison, drive a car into Emily's house, and you know, drop Jason down an elevator shaft. Which makes me think that she actually was accurately diagnosed, and there's a good chance that she really was the one who pushed Toby's mom off the roof that night.

 

I actually thought that intermittent explosive disorder is a made up condition, like adrenalinesed hyperreality but apparently it's a real thing. But with the way mental diseases аre portrayed in this show, I wouldn't be surprised even if it turns out Bethany "infected" Cece with that disorder.

 

 

It would be ideal if everything fits, yes. But that would also mean the "A" identity would have to be prominently placed on the whiteboard in the screenwriting room, so anyone and everyone involved in the writing is aware of that and can avoid any continuity mistakes. They would never kept the identity hidden for long that way.

 

I doubt it's such a certainty there would be leaks but even if is - so what? Most viewers don't look for spoilers and in any event there are always plenty of fake spoilers to mislead those who do. Why not write the best story they can, without worrying about the shock factor so much?

 

 

And assuming she is not completely forgotten after the time jump, five years is just enough for her to finish some extensive therapy and be released as healthy. So the fun can continue.

 

If they do that the Liars should hire an assassin for Cece and for the judge who would allow this travesty of justice. Enough is enough, I say.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe

[Giuliano Lanzilli]

Two things:

 

Cece getting kicked out of UPenn and thinking Ali and the Liars set her up for this would have been motivation enough. It could've also explained away Ian's murder, because he was standing at the top of the stairs when the girl at the frat party was pushed, and CeCe could've started with him to exact her revenge. Ian was never written with the characteristics or personality traits that would lead an audience to believe he would kill himself. That was something that was never hinted at or alluded to. And the slapdash feel of this episode comes across the same way that Sweeps Week Lesbian Kissing does--selfish and exploitative. (So maybe this show is A... and also Ezra?)

 

Jessica DiLaurentis worrying about Kenneth leaving her to the point that she forced her daughter to hide who she was and allowed her child to be held in captivity for the majority of her life rang extremely false given that she had so little consideration for her marriage that she had affairs with Peter Hastings and Bethany Young's father. Her affair with Peter Hastings was long before CeCe was born, so she wasn't all that invested in her marriage to begin with.

 

Those are EXCELLENT points! I loathe that fans pay 3000 times as much attention to the show as the writers! :O

[Bort]

How could Melissa, Ian, garnett and co not think it's weird that Cece never wear to their school but was somehow prom queen on their yearbooks?

That plot hole I can buy. I never really perused my own yearbook, maybe they didn't either. After a few years of being out of high school, I couldn't have picked our prom queen out of a lineup.

[Shangrilala]

Random question. Is Charles UberA?  Is that the idea?  Or just this seasons A.  I took it to mean that Charles is UberA.  But I've read other places that are still saying that the identity of UberA is still not known.

[itainttippithebird]

 

Why did Cece put Ali in prison????

 

This was Mona's doing, no? Still, in kidnapping Mona, CeCe made no backup plan for exonerating Ali for what would be assumed to be her murder. And who was paying people in prison to hurt Ali, if not CeCe? So yeah, nope, this still doesn't make sense, even if it was initially Mona's set up.

 

Also, I still wanna know what it was Mona heart on Bethany's tapes that made her call Emily (?) and say yep, it's Alison, and I can prove it. (One SORT OF neat retrofit is re-listening to the piece of Bethany's tape that Mona and Spencer heard in Radley with CeCe in mind - it works for her to be talking about CeCe instead! So there's that.)

Edited August 14, 2015 by itainttippithebird

[CloudySky]

Why would she want videos of Alison and her friends changing? I think we have to accept that the writers will never again address the NAT club videos.

 

 

She's obsessed with Ali so it was a way to keep tabs on her and feel closer to her? She could play the videos and pretend she's there with them at the sleepover, talking and laughing and being part of Alison's life. *shrug* Is this less or more creepy than a typical Rosewood pedo getting off on the girls? Reminds me, I'm a little relieved that it was Cece and not some guy who undressed the liars in that fake morgue.

 

Oh, Jason said it was his idea but it could have been planted by Cece...He was so high all the time so of course he thought it was the best idea ever and totally forgot she goaded him into it.

 

I've watched a few "goodbye" videos on youtube of that labor day scene and I have to admit I got a little teary. As horrible as this show is sometimes, it will be really difficult to say goodbye when the time comes. It's really been groundbreaking in some ways and there's no other show like it. Watching the scream episode after this one made me realize I take this show for granted sometimes. Scream is campy fun, but the characters are so unlikeable and one dimensional. And the gore is over the top ridiculous. PLL can be creepy as fuck using the most innocent objects like milk, the characters are amazing and it's (usually) beautifully shot.

 

Also, I still wanna know what it was Mona heart on Bethany's tapes that made her call Emily (?) and say yep, it's Alison, and I can prove it.

 

 

I thought that was a lie told by Mona because she was trying to set up Alison for her murder. Only, she was actually kidnapped.

 

 

[itainttippithebird]

 

I thought that was a lie told by Mona because she was trying to set up Alison for her murder. Only, she was actually kidnapped.

 

Except doesn't she look in the mirror and say something about it to HERSELF? I suppose you could still translate that as her meaning "I've got you FRAMED", rather than "I caught you being A".

[CloudySky]

Except doesn't she look in the mirror and say something about it to HERSELF? I suppose you could still translate that as her meaning "I've got you FRAMED", rather than "I caught you being A".

I just rewatched the scene on youtube and she says "Game over, Alison. I win." That makes sense with her framing plan. It would have been a different story if she'd said "game over, A" because we'd have to rationalize it with she was just shortening Alison's name in that instance (she knows Ali isn't A) for...reasons.

Edited August 14, 2015 by CloudySky

[jjjmoss]

My problem with CeCe as A, well one of my problems, is that it makes the whole A game unnecessary. If CeCe's intention was to torment the girls to bring Alison out of hiding so she could eventually have her for her dollhouse, why not just call Ali up and be like, "hey wanna grab a cup of coffee that I will lace with a cocktail of drugs that will knock you unconscious so I can drag you to my underground bunker and keep you as a plaything for the rest of your life." We know CeCe and Ali were in contact while Alison was on the run and we've seen CeCe meeting with her a few times. Why not just take her then? Why continue to harass and threaten her and the girls and put her in jail? She had access to Alison and Ali trusted her. She didn't need a master plan, once she found out Alison was alive and started helping her (which, we never did find out how that came about), she had her chance to get Alison and it would have actually been easier and made a lot more sense because no one knew Ali was alive but her, Noel and a couple of others, so if she had kidnapped Ali and put her in the dollhouse before Ali showed herself to the girls and returned to Rosewood, no one would even know Ali was gone and CeCe would easily get away with it and be able to keep Ali all to herself without anyone looking for her.  

Cuz it was "fun"! And "'It felt so good to finally succeed at something!" Because apparently being a multi-millionaire with her own company from being a genius at the stock market, with seed money from...somewhere, a company that she is able to run while living in an asylum, is not a success.

I guess it's cuz she's "crazy," and crazy people's behavior just doesn't make any sense; it's totally not that the writers' plotting makes no sense.

[bettername2come]

The thing that I loved about Vanessa's portrayal of Cece in this episode were moments like when she said, "Class was canceled. Okay, I called in a bomb threat.

 

That and the "You can't just treat people like your dolls" "Yes, I can" scene where she stared at the camera and made all the girls jump back. Over the top, crazy, Vanessa Ray is having the best time with this, kind of scenes. 

[Mabinogia]

The only thing I liked about the CeCe reveal was Vanessa Ray. I hadn't thought much of her as CeCe but she hit the crazy right out of the park on this episode. Plus, I do think she looks a little like Jessica in the face so I could have bought her as Jessica's other secret love child or even her legitimate child with Mr. D who was crazy from birth and shipped off to the nut house. All of which could have been pulled off without the out of no where gender switch which really only had one purpose, so we, the audience would look for guys and not focus on CeCe as A. Whatever. Go Vanessa! Great job with some real crap to work with. And it was nice to see the Lair's very bizarre prom costumes again. That is all.

[mercfan3]

I thought CeCe laughed because it was the correct diagnosis for her, even though the diagnosis came from her being framed for something. 

[MissL]

The ONLY thing I liked about this episode was "I love all my dolls". Legit creepy line. I just wish it had come out of a different A.

The most unforgivable sin. This was boring. The A reveal episode was BORING ya'll.

I am 39 year old female with no children to blame for why I watch this show. I mean really I can't explain it except I love these girls. Hannah cracks me up, I want to be Spencer, Aria at least owns her crazy clothes, and Emily is a sweetheart and I love the 4 of them together. Otherwise yeah it makes no sense watching this show. I even recall flipping out to a coworker one day because in one episode all of these girls who were supposed to be 16 at the time were either having sex or almost having sex with their "love interest" and (I'm no prude) I informed him he was screwed because if a popular show on the family channel had a bunch of teenage girls having sex like it ain't no big thang he was totally screwed trying to raise his daughters in a hyper-sexualized culture. Anyway. My point is. I see the transgender sTory and I think it's a terrible storyline, bad message and just insulting, but I stopped thinking this show had their heads on straight with a lot of things a long time ago...see Ezra as love interest ...so I'm not getting as worked up about that as I am about the BORING.

Just my opinion. Of course mileage varies. But man seriously? They just stood in a ROOM the whole episode?

[cuddlingcrowley]

Well said, MissL. That's pretty much how I feel as well. I'm under the opinion that, as a rule, the finales on this show tend to lean on the clunky side, for some reason. The writers try to pull off Big and it tends to look awkward really, really fast. Way too much running in ballgowns that got uglier and uglier as time went, mind you. The huge exception to that being the season 1 finale which might be one of my favorite episodes of the show, from start to finish.

 

I have a feeling they tried to be whimsical or campy here and when they pull it off, it's awesome. For a while there, the humor on PLL created with the A tags and A messages was like my favorite thing ever, it was confidently ridiculous that's how I'd describe. But here it backfired. BAD. Having the girls being stuck on the spaceship like room was one the laziest and most amateurish things I've ever seen. And, like you said: unforgivably boring.

 

Yes, exposition is a challenge for every writer, especially large amounts of it, but trying to make it good is an opportunity to create special. If there's one criticism of this episode that I read and that stuck with me is that we were robbed of a much earned victory for the girls to figure out who A is by themselves. Instead, yet again they were locked somewhere against their will and fed this insane story that, frankly, at first I thought it was weird, but now I don't blame them for not caring to stay until the end, like Mona. Who could garantee everything wasn't just another big great lie? It was the most anticlimatic thing ever. They earned so much better!

 

And worst, this was such an wasted opportunity for drama. The much waited and fought for victory at finally trapping A and learning their story could have come at great cost for each of the girls. The kind of thing I would have liked to watch was they girls using the dollhouse as a trap for A by turning The Game against A but in order to pull it off they had to seriously damage a relationship with one of their loved ones/actually physically harm someone/betray each other. Sacrificing all the love interests in a satanic ritual could work as well. Basically willingly doing all the things A forced them to do in the dollhouse just way worse and for real as a way to lead A into this trap.

 

Like a much darker and much more personal "Jenna thing" which could come back to hunt them when they were adults. There, you have an explanation for why they drifted apart and a lead in for the mystery after the time jump.

Edited August 15, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[Aquariuz]

I would prefer to see the liars in college, Gossip Girl-style, like the five of them are separated but still they have something in common that ties them together, like tormented by "B" or "C".

I feel like they're going to do a time-jump simply because they don't know what to write after that finale. So they can press a restart button, to hell with plot holes and unexplained mystery in the past, we're introducing you to PLL 2.0 : Adult Version. I mean I can take adults being locked in a room for one episode (Hey, Moms!) but do I want two seasons of adults making poor decisions and getting locked in rooms?

[raytch]

I would prefer to see the liars in college, Gossip Girl-style, like the five of them are separated but still they have something in common that ties them together, like tormented by "B" or "C".

I feel like they're going to do a time-jump simply because they don't know what to write after that finale. So they can press a restart button, to hell with plot holes and unexplained mystery in the past, we're introducing you to PLL 2.0 : Adult Version. I mean I can take adults being locked in a room for one episode (Hey, Moms!) but do I want two seasons of adults making poor decisions and getting locked in rooms?

Well the new mystery seems somewhat interesting. The fact that Sara Harvey was revealed as Red Coat, that we didn't know who killed Mrs D and never saw Bethany's face when she was no longer a kid makes me think whoever this He is, he's out for blood. Maybe he's Bethany's father? And maybe Bethany is a *sigh* twin or yet another sister?

[raytch]

Well said, MissL. That's pretty much how I feel as well. I'm under the opinion that, as a rule, the finales on this show tend to lean on the clunky side, for some reason. The writers try to pull off Big and it tends to look awkward really, really fast. Way too much running in ballgowns that got uglier and uglier as time went, mind you. The huge exception to that being the season 1 finale which might be one of my favorite episodes of the show, from start to finish.

I have a feeling they tried to be whimsical or campy here and when they pull it off, it's awesome. For a while there, the humor on PLL created with the A tags and A messages was like my favorite thing ever, it was confidently ridiculous that's how I'd describe. But here it backfired. BAD. Having the girls being stuck on the spaceship like room was one the laziest and most amateurish things I've ever seen. And, like you said: unforgivably boring.

Yes, exposition is a challenge for every writer, especially large amounts of it, but trying to make it good is an opportunity to create special. If there's one criticism of this episode that I read and that stuck with me is that we were robbed of a much earned victory for the girls to figure out who A is by themselves. Instead, yet again they were locked somewhere against their will and fed this insane story that, frankly, at first I thought it was weird, but now I don't blame them for not caring to stay until the end, like Mona. Who could garantee everything wasn't just another big great lie? It was the most anticlimatic thing ever. They earned so much better!

And worst, this was such an wasted opportunity for drama. The much waited and fought for victory at finally trapping A and learning their story could have come at great cost for each of the girls. The kind of thing I would have liked to watch was they girls using the dollhouse as a trap for A by turning The Game against A but in order to pull it off they had to seriously damage a relationship with one of their loved ones/actually physically harm someone/betray each other. Sacrificing all the love interests in a satanic ritual could work as well. Basically willingly doing all the things A forced them to do in the dollhouse just way worse and for real as a way to lead A into this trap.

Like a much darker and much more personal "Jenna thing" which could come back to hunt them when they were adults. There, you have an explanation for why they drifted apart and a lead in for the mystery after the time jump.

Yes for all of this.

The biggest problem this season has been the liars acting worse than their season 1 self in terms of sleuthing and jumping to conclusions. How they did not see Sara Harvey coming is beyond me and basically just a thing for plot, so they would end up yet again locked in a room in puffy dresses.

For the time jump though, did anyone else pick up a "Now that we're done with girls and women torturing each other we can finally focus on fighting the real enemy here? (He being the patriarchy) "

I'm probably way off on this but the way I see it it's the only logical thing for the show to do at this point... Not that logic counts for anything with the writers anymore.

[Aquariuz]

Well the new mystery seems somewhat interesting. The fact that Sara Harvey was revealed as Red Coat, that we didn't know who killed Mrs D and never saw Bethany's face when she was no longer a kid makes me think whoever this He is, he's out for blood. Maybe he's Bethany's father? And maybe Bethany is a *sigh* twin or yet another sister?

 

I doubt we'll see Sara Harvey in the future. And I hope we won't, because she's horrible.

And I hope they don't drag on Mrs. D's murder mystery. I'm still scarred from Toby's mom murder arc which now I think is a colossal waste of screen time since her death is so unnecessary and could have been explained in like 5 minutes, just like in the finale.

[cuddlingcrowley]

For the time jump though, did anyone else pick up a "Now that we're done with girls and women torturing each other we can finally focus on fighting the real enemy here? (He being the patriarchy) "

I'm probably way off on this but the way I see it it's the only logical thing for the show to do at this point... Not that logic counts for anything with the writers anymore.

 

 

I...don't know about that, to be honest. I think mercfan3 made an amazing post on the social and cultural thread about how the writers go about feminism and patriarchy in big ways but mostly small ways, imo. Which managed to pull the entire show into focus for me, but also made me see how they go about it and I don't think this show will ever be as obvious as say Buffy would be, when it comes to this kind of thing.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I think this will keep being a show about flawed and interesting young women who would do anything for each other in a world they're constantly trying to survive patriarchy and every once and while get a small win here and there. But this isn't a show about big wins. Basicaly, this is more Angel the series than Buffy, I think. Nothing they do matters and patriarchy will never be completely defeated so all that matters is what they do. The moments with the girls being themselves and being happy is the biggest win we can hope for, imo. I wish we'd get to see them grow to be more active when it comes to ditching toxic relationships, though.

 

This is my very positive spin on the fact that I am entirely disenganged from the mystery from here on out.

Edited August 15, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

I doubt we'll see Sara Harvey in the future.

 

She is in the promo for the winter season.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

But this isn't a show about big wins. Basicaly, this is more Angel the series than Buffy, I think. Nothing they do matters and patriarchy will never be completely defeated so all that matters is what they do.

Awwww, this gave me warm fuzzies for multiple reasons! But I can totally see what you're saying about PLL going the AtS route as opposed to Buffy. It's realistic (ha, which is one thing this show normally isn't) that even if A is gone, the patriarchy will always be there grinding away.

[raytch]

I...don't know about that, to be honest. I think mercfan3 made an amazing post on the social and cultural thread about how the writers go about feminism and patriarchy in big ways but mostly small ways, imo. Which managed to pull the entire show into focus for me, but also made me see how they go about it and I don't think this show will ever be as obvious as say Buffy would be, when it comes to this kind of thing.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think this will keep being a show about flawed and interesting young women who would do anything for each other in a world they're constantly trying to survive patriarchy and every once and while get a small win here and there. But this isn't a show about big wins. Basicaly, this is more Angel the series than Buffy, I think. Nothing they do matters and patriarchy will never be completely defeated so all that matters is what they do. The moments with the girls being themselves and being happy is the biggest win we can hope for, imo. I wish we'd get to see them grow to be more active when it comes to ditching toxic relationships, though.

This is my very positive spin on the fact that I am entirely disenganged from the mystery from here on out.

True. I was just putting out the best case scenario going from this finale. I just wanna see the liars kick some ass!

[raytch]

She is in the promo for the winter season.

Ouch Shaftoe. That is some Marin way to break the bad news

[Perfect Xero]

Jessica DiLaurentis worrying about Kenneth leaving her to the point that she forced her daughter to hide who she was and allowed her child to be held in captivity for the majority of her life rang extremely false given that she had so little consideration for her marriage that she had affairs with Peter Hastings and Bethany Young's father. Her affair with Peter Hastings was long before CeCe was born, so she wasn't all that invested in her marriage to begin with.

 

We don't know when it started, but  the affair with Peter was obviously taking place after CeCe was born, since she's older than Jason.

 

In light of her affairs, I would guess that Jessica was someone who didn't love her husband but was staying with him for financial and status reasons. Perhaps he had an ironclad prenup or the like. Maybe she did love him but also enjoyed the cheating.

 

Sure, having an affair isn't smart, but she'd hardly be the first person to think that she was clever enough to get away with it.

 

The situation with CeCe is somewhat similar, she won't directly fight her husband's wishes and take a stand against him, but also thinks that she's clever enough to sneak her girls clothes and then later fake the death of "Charles" so she could transition to Charlotte.