Becky: Original Recipe or New Coke?

[Bastet]

Sarah Chalke's Becky always seemed like some generic blonde who had wandered into the wrong family.  But Lecy Goranson's Becky was a wonderfully real character.  Original Recipe Becky was utterly unlikable sometimes, as teens are, and that was an intriguing thing to see in a main character.

Also, she said, "Moth-er" in the exact same inflection I used on my mom at that age, which was always good for a smile.

[Brn2bwild]

Original recipe, always.  Lecy's Becky was very real, while Sarah Chalke seemed to have stumbled in from somewhere else (which... she did).  You could almost feel that behind Darlene's nastiness toward Sarah's Becky, there was the attitude: "You're not my real sister!"

Btw, love that every TV show gets to have sub-forums on this website, not just the newer shows!

Edited April 3, 2014 by Brn2bwild

[Rhondinella]

Agreed on original vs. new Becky.  As much as I love Sarah Chalke elsewhere, this was not the right role for her.  Of course, coming in mid-stream and picking up and existing character is not easy, so it's not all her fault.  But still.  

[spidermiss2426]

I'm one of the few who likes Sarah's becky better.  I'm not sure why, I suppose I just like the contrast of her character.  SHe's the Maryland Munster of the family.  Plus I hated the brat Lecy's becky was.

[bunnywithanaxe]

They each kinda had their own flavor. Sarah's Becky  had a tongue like a razor, but Lacy was borderline maniacal.

[peacheslatour]

I read an interview with John Goodman where he said when the script called for Becky to be angry, Lecy was so intense she scared him.

[Bastet]

I think Lecy and John worked particularly well together when Becky and Dan were at odds.  Lecy did a great job showing Becky's awkwardness and hurt when Dan gave her the silent treatment -- after she and Mark took an unauthorized ride on his motorcycle and then again when she came back home to get her stuff after eloping with Mark. 

[peacheslatour]

Lecy was the Beckiest Becky ever!

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Team Lecy here. Lecy was supposed to be a bitchy teenager - actually I found it interesting watching her changing from little "princess" to bitchy teenage girl to unsatisfied young adult. She had an arc in her storyline that made sense. She was more realistic than most teen girls portrayed on TV. And Lecy must have been a terrific actress to hold her own with some of the scenes she had with her parents. 

[peacheslatour]

I saw her on an Episode of Law and Order (I'm not sure which incarnation) she has not aged well.  :(

[Bastet]

I saw her in an episode of L&O: SVU quite some time back, which was fun.  As I recall, she was playing a pretty down on her luck character, meaning the haggard look was intentional.

I really liked Lecy in Boys Don't Cry and Love, Ludlow.

[Aprilshowers]

Lecy, she was Becky. I can't believe she hasn't been in more things. Such a talented actress. Great chemistry with the cast. On the flip side watching the show through again I didn't mind when Sarah came on, she was used fairly sparingly I noticed. The only thing is the last episode should have had Lecy or I guess she's Alicia now.

[SusannahTaylor2]

I also preferred Lecy to Sarah. I think they had the best out for Becky when she married Mark and moved away.

[Automne]

I think Lecy and John worked particularly well together when Becky and Dan were at odds.  Lecy did a great job showing Becky's awkwardness and hurt when Dan gave her the silent treatment -- after she and Mark took an unauthorized ride on his motorcycle and then again when she came back home to get her stuff after eloping with Mark. 

 

I always enjoyed the episodes when her parents would essentially dish out to her what she did to them. I just watched that episode where Becky went out while grounded and was completely disrespectful to Roseanne and then wanted to give the silent treatment when she was grounded for another week. Such a little snot.

 

What I always wished Roseanne and Dan would do is that if Becky wanted to be treated like an adult so much, give her a taste of what adulthood is. She has to prepare her own meals, do her own laundry, receive a bill for all utilities she uses, etc. Hammer it home that adulthood isn't just about getting to do whatever you want whenever you want, but that all the privileges and rights of adulthood come with very real responsibilities that can't be shirked. Given that her parents were working multiple jobs, they gave her very few chores to do. Becky wanted to bitch about being tired of having cold sandwiches every night because Roseanne was too busy to make a hot meal and I'm sitting here like, you're 14. You can make some simple dinners like pasta, casseroles, and tacos. Go to the library and borrow a couple of cookbooks. Start earning that adult independence you demand.

[DkNNy79]

Another vote for original as well.  I hated her when she was dating Mark.  I really don't see what she saw in him.  I guess he's good looking, but he was just so stupid and I don't know what they would have to talk about.  Also, he was such a punk to her parents when they first met.  He's lucky Dan didn't seriously kick his a**

[imjagain]

Another vote for original as well. I hated her when she was dating Mark. I really don't see what she saw in him. I guess he's good looking, but he was just so stupid and I don't know what they would have to talk about. Also, he was such a punk to her parents when they first met. He's lucky Dan didn't seriously kick his a**

I dated a really good looking dummy as a teen ..... talk!? What is this talk? He was so hot!

J/k kind of.

I do agree he treated Dan and Rosanne like shit and that didn't ring true to me. Even the biggest jerks in high school knew how to pass as nice in front of our parents.

[UYI]

The best of Original Becky. And yes, I'm Team Lecy all the way:

 

[Aja]

I think the fact that lots of people find Lecy's portrayal of Becky abrasive and bratty speaks to what a great job Lecy did of playing her. Sarah just seemed like a dumb robot to bounce lines off and never had much of a personality or arc of her own and I don't react to anything she does in the series. Lecy's Becky could be exasperating, hilarious, sweet and loving, insanely selfish, mature about some things and infantile about others--Lecy's Becky and Sara's Darlene are the most realistic kids ever portrayed on a sitcom, I think. Sarah was just another two-dimensional nothing and I never understood why they didn't just leave Becky and Mark in Minneapolis and work her into the show when it was convenient for Lecy's schedule. I would have much preferred that than having to accept some second-rate interloper Becky who just clomped in and out of rooms swinging her hair around and adding exactly nothing to the show.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Aja

[Seeminglynormal]

Definitely Lecy. Becky is one of my favorites just because of the way Lecy portrayed her. I'll never understand how some people like Sarah better because Becky was basically a background character at that point. I never understood why they brought Becky back when she wasn't used much after season 6. I also hated how different the Becky/Darlene dynamic was when Sarah was Becky. It was one of my favorite parts of the show. Lecy and Sara had such great chemistry.

[Aja]

I also hated how different the Becky/Darlene dynamic was when Sarah was Becky. It was one of my favorite parts of the show. Lecy and Sara had such great chemistry.

 

This bothers me too! Lecy and Sara had so many hilarious moments bickering, but they had just as many 'sister' moments that clearly demonstrated how bonded they were and how loyal to each other. I don't think Darlene ever said one word to Sarah's Becky that wasn't mean or derogatory. Apart from a story arc where SarahBecky was briefly contemplating an affair with David, they barely interacted in any significant way at all. It also bothered me when SarahBecky encouraged David to tell Darlene that she was a horrible person and that they never really connected when they were together. I didn't think that was consistent with the character Lecy set up at all. Lecy's Becky would have certainly understood how important David was to Darlene. I think my distaste for SarahBecky has a lot more to do with the writing than Sarah Chalke herself (though the swinging hair thing is distracting); I just don't get why they'd go to all the trouble of casting a new Becky to fill the role if they weren't going to keep anything else the least bit consistent. Consarnit.

[Chaos Theory]

Ah the great debate. Which Becky is your Becky? Personally I liked the original Becky because I liked the idea of Becky being smart but still susceptible to hormones like any other teenager and falling for a guy like a young version of her father. The new Becky got dumbed down a lot but she was actually funnier (so I will give her that) and Mark well he got dumber each season.). The dynamic between Becky and Darleen changed as well. it never felt right with new Becky. (Sorry I don't remember the actors names and I am too lazy to look it up)

Edited December 20, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[AndySmith]

One of my favorite Becky moments was the episode where the family went to Disney World (or was it Land?). Lecy was back on the show at that point, I guess, but wasn't available for that episode. So Sarah stepped up, and Roseanne the character made a nice breaking the 4th wall quote : "Aren't you glad your here on the show week?" lol

Edited May 15, 2015 by AndySmith

[Bastet]

Yeah, it was a two-parter filmed on location, and Lecy couldn't get away for that long.  That's the one where they freeze frame when New Coke Becky comes in and play a VO saying, "The role of Becky Conner, originally played by Lecy Goranson, then by Sarah Chalke, then again by Lecy Goranson, is tonight being played by Sarah Chalke," then continue on with the action.

 

Then comes Roseanne's "Aren't you glad you're here this week?" line when Becky asks if it's true they're going to Disneyworld.

 

My favorite acknowledgment of the rotating Beckys is the tag where they parody the Patty Duke Show theme.  I think that's missing on the DVD version of the episode.

[UYI]

It is; I think it was a copyright thing. Bums me out, too; that's one of the highlights of season 8, and those were hard to come by as time went on. 

[ErinW]

My favorite acknowledgment of the rotating Beckys is the tag where they parody the Patty Duke Show theme.  I think that's missing on the DVD version of the episode.

My favorite acknowledgement (in an otherwise weak episode) is when Goranson comes back for the baby shower episode and everyone keeps asking her, "Where the hell have you been?"

 

Although it's also cute in Chalke's first episode when they're all watching Bewitched and talking about how cheap it is to switch cast members and how everyone always knows, and Chalke-Becky says, "I liked the second Darren better!"

[methodwriter85]

I wish they could have done a bit where both Becky's were at the table in the final episode where they are doing a recreation of all the openings just rotating.

[readster]

Seeing some of the episodes on Laff lately. I can't believe how much Becky was all about: "Me, me, me!" Yes, kind of like Roseanne, but she had a very sad way of looking at things. Mark got a job out in Minnesota, what did she say: "My life is over, because you are moving away. Let's get married." When Roseanne thought she was pregnant again, Becky talked about how the baby was going to take away her Sweet 16 party, getting a car and so forth.  Then in the birth control episode she admitted Mark and her had already done it and felt she had done things backwards getting birth control after the fact. She even said it wasn't a spur of the moment or anything, they just had sex already. Becky was very on the dime thought process. She never thought ahead. Was made worse when Sarah took over the role. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by readster

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, readster said:

Then in the birth control episode she admitted Mark and her had already done it and felt she had done things backwards getting birth control after the fact. She even said it wasn't a spur of the moment or anything, they just had sex already.

Yes, but they were using condoms ("for diseases and stuff").  She decided to go on the pill as extra protection against pregnancy.

I like the way the show handled both girls deciding to have sex.  They made responsible decisions of complete free will -- they had boyfriends who wanted them to and parents who wanted them not to, but neither side pushed, respecting it as their choice to make.  And no one made the huge fuss out of it so many TV teen age girls (and their parents) do.  It was refreshing.

[readster]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yes, but they were using condoms ("for diseases and stuff").  She decided to go on the pill as extra protection against pregnancy.

I like the way the show handled both girls deciding to have sex.  They made responsible decisions of complete free will -- they had boyfriends who wanted them to and parents who wanted them not to, but neither side pushed, respecting it as their choice to make.  And no one made the huge fuss out of it so many TV teen age girls (and their parents) do.  It was refreshing.

Completely agree. Was one of the best handled with both of them. I even was happy with DJ and his girlfriend later towards the shows end. They worked as a couple and wasn't one sided, odd or Dan high fiving DJ going: "Way to go son." They had pretty regular relationships and did go overboard. 

[BitterApple]

7 hours ago, readster said:

Seeing some of the episodes on Laff lately. I can't believe how much Becky was all about: "Me, me, me!" Yes, kind of like Roseanne, but she had a very sad way of looking at things. Mark got a job out in Minnesota, what did she say: "My life is over, because you are moving away. Let's get married." When Roseanne thought she was pregnant again, Becky talked about how the baby was going to take away her Sweet 16 party, getting a car and so forth.  Then in the birth control episode she admitted Mark and her had already done it and felt she had done things backwards getting birth control after the fact. She even said it wasn't a spur of the moment or anything, they just had sex already. Becky was very on the dime thought process. She never thought ahead. Was made worse when Sarah took over the role. 

I think impulsiveness is pretty typical of most teenagers. They tend to think in the here and now as opposed to the long term. It's interesting because I've read a lot of comments on various forums where people hated Becky for being so self-centered, but to me Darlene wasn't much better. She refused to do anything around the house when she was in Depression Mode and let all the responsibility fall on her older sister. When Becky bailed Darlene out by writing her paper for her, Darlene acted like a total bitch and ratted her out to Roseanne. 

[Bastet]

I, too, find it interesting that Becky's bratty behavior is often noted, but Darlene - who I think (d)evolved from typical teenage brat to complete asshole once she moved to Chicago - doesn't generate the same type of commentary. 

Don't get me wrong, I love both characters - even though they're, like everyone, quite unlikable at times - the first four/five seasons, I just think audience reaction is interesting.

As fairly recently discussed in the Episodes thread, the way Becky was treated, to an extent, as the third adult in the house (something never foisted on Darlene, even when she'd gotten a bit older and Becky was gone), was well done and an interesting aspect of her character.  I always found the push-pull of Becky's over-achieving, responsibility-bound characteristics versus her self-centered impulses and yearnings to rebel great to watch.  This isn't the only series to explore that aspect of teenage life, but I don't think I've ever seen it done as consistently well as with Becky Conner.

Becky telling both Roseanne and Darlene off in that episode where she writes Darlene's paper for her and gets shit on for it are two of my favorite Becky moments of all time.  And I love that they both hear her.

[AgentRXS]

Quote

As fairly recently discussed in the Episodes thread, the way Becky was treated, to an extent, as the third adult in the house (something never foisted on Darlene, even when she'd gotten a bit older and Becky was gone), was well done and an interesting aspect of her character.  I always found the push-pull of Becky's over-achieving, responsibility-bound characteristics versus her self-centered impulses and yearnings to rebel great to watch.  This isn't the only series to explore that aspect of teenage life, but I don't think I've ever seen it done as consistently well as with Becky Conner.

And honestly, it's so true to life in lower-income working class families. With Mom and Dad struggling to make ends meet and coming home exhausted, the oldest child usually gets the most responsibility foisted upon them. I was just like Becky at that age--school over-achiever and stand-in for my mother when it came to chores and disciplining my brother. Like Becky, I needed an escape from it all and ran right into the arms into my first boyfriend, who was very similar to Mark.  My sister (the middle child) was treated just like Darlene--never had to be responsible for doing anything, free to behave in whichever way she wanted.

God, Roseanne Barr got so many things right about the working class family of the '90s before she let everything go off the rails. Its really amazing.

[methodwriter85]

My older sister had some Becky tendencies - my mother was never around because she was either working or gambling, and she basically played Mom to me while the middle sister kind of just did whatever. (The other sister was more of the school achiever, while this one basically just worked a lot at her McDonald's job.)  She moved out with her loser boyfriend when she was 20 or so, then moved back in after it all went to shit with her boyfriend. She eventually was able to move out for good when she was 25 and had been in a steady, mature relationship for a few years with her now-husband, who's a pretty good guy. I wonder if Becky followed a similar trajectory, although the show did seem to say by the end that Mark was a pretty good guy. I still think they would've divorced, especially Lecy's Becky.

I did watch the episode where Becky gets called a cunt (not that they ever said it, but you know that's exactly what Darlene whispered) by her manager and it's really not surprising that Becky ran off with Mark like she did. Still really disappointed that we never got a graduation episode with any of the kids- DJ was too young, Becky eloped instead of doing her finals, and Darlene dropped out of the 10th grade to get her GED and go to college. I did like the joke they made about this when David graduated.

[BitterApple]

18 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

God, Roseanne Barr got so many things right about the working class family of the '90s before she let everything go off the rails. Its really amazing.

She really did, and that's why, at least for me, this is one of the few sitcoms that's held up well over time. One of my favorite moments was when the State Rep came to the door and told Roseanne he was trying to get to know his constituents. Roseanne said "why don't you just go down to the unemployment office so you can meet everyone at once?". She totally nailed what life was like in a working class town with dwindling prospects. 

I think every one of Becky's storylines was handled well from the drinking to the birth control pills to Becky rebelling when her parents refused to let her see Mark. 

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

One of my favorite moments was when the State Rep came to the door and told Roseanne he was trying to get to know his constituents. Roseanne said "why don't you just go down to the unemployment office so you can meet everyone at once?".

And then he starts going on about how he's going to create jobs by offering tax break incentives so businesses will come to Lanford. 

"Union jobs?"  [No.]  So, you're going to let companies come here and offer scab wages, while we pay the taxes to make up for their share?"

"Is your husband home?"

Heh; I love that scene. 

And, yeah, there isn't a storyline of the real Becky's that I don't find both realistic and well done.  By far, one of my favorite TV teens. 

I liked her as a young girl in the first couple of seasons, too - embarrassed by her parents, crushing on boys, hanging with her friends at the mall, wanting to do well in school, etc. 

[readster]

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

She really did, and that's why, at least for me, this is one of the few sitcoms that's held up well over time. One of my favorite moments was when the State Rep came to the door and told Roseanne he was trying to get to know his constituents. Roseanne said "why don't you just go down to the unemployment office so you can meet everyone at once?". She totally nailed what life was like in a working class town with dwindling prospects. 

I think every one of Becky's storylines was handled well from the drinking to the birth control pills to Becky rebelling when her parents refused to let her see Mark. 

How true and I actually liked Dan's talk with Becky about why Roseanne had such a problem with it. Then why they broke up in the first place and then why they got back together was handle very realistically. The school finger photo just aired last night, I thought it was handled perfectly with how all the parents reacted and giving us a look into what early 90s education admin really saw why students did bad. Or they would brand them for one mistake (Now, it's they never let them forget their mistakes). I loved when Dan told Becky why he got suspended in school for snoring in detention. Meaning he did something minor but then fell asleep because he was bored. Even loved Roseanne going: "Well, you shouldn't have done it, but there are bigger things I be more upset about and that you have done." Also the introduction to Chuck's family was nicely built starting here.  

[Bastet]

"We're all fingers over here."

I love Becky's astounded, "Wait, you weren't mad when you thought I did do it, but now you're mad that I didn't?"

Great characterization for both Becky and Roseanne.  Becky the goody two-shoes getting some street cred at school without getting in any real trouble at home (all she had to do was help Dan with the car, which was really just keeping him company), so going with the lie.  Roseanne not getting worked up over her teenager daughter engaging in some silly ritual, but having quite a problem with having to take time off work to be treated like a bad mother by the principal.

[readster]

19 hours ago, Bastet said:

"We're all fingers over here."

I love Becky's astounded, "Wait, you weren't mad when you thought I did do it, but now you're mad that I didn't?"

Great characterization for both Becky and Roseanne.  Becky the goody two-shoes getting some street cred at school without getting in any real trouble at home (all she had to do was help Dan with the car, which was really just keeping him company), so going with the lie.  Roseanne not getting worked up over her teenager daughter engaging in some silly ritual, but having quite a problem with having to take time off work to be treated like a bad mother by the principal.

Yep, exactly! I mean it was a great scene between the principal and Roseanne. However, I think Jackie said it best: "You think after all these years, the photographers would get wise. We had one kid in our class photo do it and the photographer saw it just as he snapped, but back in the film days, you only had so much film to use and school's had to pay for. However, that classmate of mine was not only in so much trouble as no one else did it, he realized he didn't want to do it. Just he thought he be funny and thought he do it after the picture was snapped instead of before. Joke waso on him. It was also the final strike on him as he didn't graduate and had to get his GED a few years later because he was always doing stuff like that.  Now, with digital, you can see the preview and kids that do that are immediately taken out and the photo retaken. However, I do hate admin who immediately blame the parents for a kid's behavior, when seriously, unless there is a long history of the kid doing that. It doesn't make sense. As we found out with Becky, her feeling Mark was going to leave and never come back did more damage than lying about flipping off the camera. 

  I didn't like super dumb down Becky that started with the elopement and Lecy leaving the series because when Sarah took over, just wow! It was like: "Who is this character, because this is not Becky in any shape or form." 

[peacheslatour]

On 5/31/2017 at 7:18 PM, Bastet said:

And then he starts going on about how he's going to create jobs by offering tax break incentives so businesses will come to Lanford. 

"Union jobs?"  [No.]  So, you're going to let companies come here and offer scab wages, while we pay the taxes to make up for their share?"

"Is your husband home?"

Heh; I love that scene. 

And, yeah, there isn't a storyline of the real Becky's that I don't find both realistic and well done.  By far, one of my favorite TV teens. 

I liked her as a young girl in the first couple of seasons, too - embarrassed by her parents, crushing on boys, hanging with her friends at the mall, wanting to do well in school, etc. 

That scene was pure gold and I think about it every time I hear politicians talking about tax incentives to bring jobs. Boeing is famous around here (Seattle) for sending a bunch of jobs South for tax breaks and getting rid of unions.

[Mmmfloorpie]

I'm of two minds on this... Becky during the original Lecy years was awesome.

Season 8 Becky when Lecy returned was terrible. She wasn't the same character. Seemed much more deflated. The couple scenes she has with Darlene didn't have the sizzle of the early years. 

It was more like Lecy Goranson came back to the show, but not her Becky.

I feel Sarah Chalke's Becky was much more gritty than Lecy's return Becky. Enjoyed her squabbles with Darlene.

[Dee]

20 minutes ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

Season 8 Becky when Lecy returned was terrible. She wasn't the same character. Seemed much more deflated. 

The show began writing Becky that way during Darlene's depression phase.

Prior to that never-ending debacle, Becky & Darlene were on fairly even footing.

Once Darlene began wearing all black and morphed into permanent couch potato, the writers reduced Becky to her personal punching bag.

[StaceyNotStacie]

16 hours ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

I'm of two minds on this... Becky during the original Lecy years was awesome.

Season 8 Becky when Lecy returned was terrible. She wasn't the same character. Seemed much more deflated. The couple scenes she has with Darlene didn't have the sizzle of the early years. 

It was more like Lecy Goranson came back to the show, but not her Becky.

I agree. Lecy's Becky wasn't the same after she returned. Sarah's Becky grew on me, so I didn't mind her. She also seemed a bit more feminine/girly than Lecy's Becky. I didnt mind either actress, so I would have been fine with either one reprising the role in the new show. 

[Mmmfloorpie]

16 hours ago, Dee said:

The show began writing Becky that way during Darlene's depression phase.

Prior to that never-ending debacle, Becky & Darlene were on fairly even footing.

Once Darlene began wearing all black and morphed into permanent couch potato, the writers reduced Becky to her personal punching bag.

The way Becky responded was in character though I thought. Becky was the "good", eager to please first child.

If Becky went into a funk instead, it would have been counter character for Darlene to start doing the chores and pulling up the slack for her.

[Dee]

I agree Becky was in character but it's during that era that Becky is mocked by her parents, and especially Darlene, for continually doing the right thing.

Over night, she went from an ambitiously nerdy, yet still kind of cool, older sister to an ungratefully entitled whiner.

[Mmmfloorpie]

19 minutes ago, Dee said:

I agree Becky was in character but it's during that era that Becky is mocked by her parents, and especially Darlene, for continually doing the right thing.

Over night, she went from an ambitiously nerdy, yet still kind of cool, older sister to an ungratefully entitled whiner.

She did become a punching bag you are right. When people are ambitious and nerdy and popular they tend to be mocked by those who aren't haha.

But, I do think she really only turned into an ungrateful whiner at the end of season 4 when she left. When she blames Dan for the bike shop closing is cringeworthy. The first bit was tolerable, but the second half when she starts with "come on mother, you know it but I'm the only one with the guts to say it. You blew it Dad, you blew it big time."

That was way over the line in my opinion and totally unecessary. The point had been made.

Part of the blame for her behaviour has to go to the fact that they/Lecy were purposely trying to write her character out of the show so they amped it up a bit.

[readster]

29 minutes ago, Dee said:

I agree Becky was in character but it's during that era that Becky is mocked by her parents, and especially Darlene, for continually doing the right thing.

Over night, she went from an ambitiously nerdy, yet still kind of cool, older sister to an ungratefully entitled whiner.

Yes to all this. Becky towards the end of Lecy's original portrayal was just too much at times. Sarah's version was so needly and ungrateful and then during season 8 they flip a coin to see who she was next. 

[Dee]

As soon as the writers felt Sara Gilbert had grown enough as an actress to deliver a solid punchline, they abandoned Becky's character (other than sticking her with Mark) altogether.

They had favored Darlene since the beginning, but after early Season 3, the show barrels full tilt into 'Darlene is a Special Snowflake' territory, which it never leaves imo.

[Mmmfloorpie]

44 minutes ago, Dee said:

As soon as the writers felt Sara Gilbert had grown enough as an actress to deliver a solid punchline, they abandoned Becky's character (other than sticking her with Mark) altogether.

They had favored Darlene since the beginning, but after early Season 3, the show barrels full tilt into 'Darlene is a Special Snowflake' territory, which it never leaves imo.

It's easier to write for a smart ass, sarcastic character than it is for a goodie two shoes so it makes sense they favoured Darlene.

I think Darlene in season 7 (I think it was) when she was dating Jimmy was her "jump the shark" moment. As David said she became a "cold hearted bitch".

The worst offender was Roseanne though. Wow. She started as a "tough" mom but by season 6 she became totally unreasonable. Iirc it was roughly around the time of Fisher beating up Jackie that the character really started to change.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Mmmfloorpie

[TheGreenKnight]

10 hours ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

But, I do think she really only turned into an ungrateful whiner at the end of season 4 when she left. When she blames Dan for the bike shop closing is cringeworthy. The first bit was tolerable, but the second half when she starts with "come on mother, you know it but I'm the only one with the guts to say it. You blew it Dad, you blew it big time."

That was way over the line in my opinion and totally unecessary. The point had been made.

I don't know, I love this episode as hard as it is to watch. Becky saying those things because of her obsession with Mark really hit the bull's-eye as far as their portrayal of her as the quintessential selfish teenager goes. My favorite part of the scene is Rosanne shouting at her to shut up after it become obvious that what Becky's saying is really twisting the knife for Dan. Roseanne defending him and then alleviating the tension afterwards is why they are/were one of my favorite TV couples.

[Bastet]

That's one of my favorite scenes of the series, as hard as it is to watch.  Becky gets hit with the college news and then, before she's had time to blow off steam and think about her options, she finds out about Mark's job offer.  Darlene talks some sense into her, and she realizes it would be selfish to ask him to stay, so she's off to tell him to take the job.  In that moment, she thinks (as she says) she's not going to college and she's never going to see Mark again.  It's the perfect storm, and for her to lash out in the worst possible way, giving voice to exactly what Dan is feeling in his own shitty moment - that he blew it as a husband and father by taking a chance on the bike shop and failing - is so incredibly ugly, but so incredibly raw and real.  Good people behave in very bad ways sometimes, and this show was great at showing that.

As we've also discussed in the Episodes thread, I also love that her decision to marry Mark isn't as stupid as it seems on paper.  If things had worked as they anticipated, it wouldn't have been the end of the world -- Mark has a good job that will allow him into the union, she goes to community college in Minnesota as she would have in Lanford, etc.  Still not a wise decision, certainly, given their ages, but for her to say, "Don't give this up for me; go take that job" and him to say, "Marry me and come with me" is a frustratingly realistic choice for them to make under the circumstances.

Which leads to Dan in the bedroom, heart breaking as he says, "She's going to get pregnant, she's going to forget all about school -- this is it!  This is her life!" 

And Roseanne telling Mark she knows he didn't force Becky into anything, she got married because she wanted to - but she also knows she wants to finish school, and go to college, and if she doesn't, then she'll know that's because of Mark.

Then the wind beneath my wings/Morticia and Bubblebutt goodbye between the sisters, and Roseanne's perfectly-delivered "Good-bye, Becky." 

Dan finally calling Becky, and her reaction.

Ugh, my heart.  That storyline is so well done.