S14: Spoilers and Spoiled Speculation

[Wings]

So Ashley's initials and thus her "brand" are ANT.  Is that really going to make the right statement next to designers like DVF, DKNY or YSL?   ;-)

 

 

Yes, I think so . I like the name ANT.  Her hair looks good in the pic above.  It was a terrible mess all season. 

[BravoAddict72]

I agree.  

 

The way she dresses herself is not attractive either and I think that she is just too big to look good in almost anything.  I know I am opening myself up to being blasted here.  It is a shame but true.  Plus sized models are usually size 12 to 14.  Ashley is beyond that. 

 

Plus sized models are also, perfectly proportioned which allows for more flexibility in design.  Anyone who is thick in the middle cannot wear clothes with waste lines.  

 

I bet Swapil could design beautifully draped caftan style clothes and flowing duster style coats to go over slimmer pants and tops.  

Sorry, but I thought this was just a little too mean. Just because Ashley is bigger than a size 12/14 doesn't mean she can't look good. I don't always like the clothes she wears but I am not going to say she can never look good.

[Wings]

Sorry, but I thought this was just a little too mean. Just because Ashley is bigger than a size 12/14 doesn't mean she can't look good. I don't always like the clothes she wears but I am not going to say she can never look good.

 

 

In my experience, I have never seen a woman this large look good in clothes.  I was not intending to be mean, it is just a fact for me.   Her hair looks fabulous in the pic above though!    

 

I did not use the word never.  Here is what I said:  "I think that she is just too big to look good in almost anything."

[Clemgo3165]

I agree with lorrie that it was a little too mean. I've seen women her size look quite lovely in their clothes, but usually they dress in a more tailored style than Ashley does and wear more expensive fabrics. And in my experience, someone who is a little thick in the middle can benefit from well-fitting clothes, including something with a waistline. A good friend of mine is thick in the middle and looks terrific in a straight skirt and a tucked in, drapey blouse. It's when you throw on big tunics and things like that that you look like a lump if you're heavy.

[NewDigs]

I don't think box pleats do any person of almost any size any favors. And drapey stuff just makes a person, imho, look like they're trying to look small while making themselves look larger than they really are.

All of that extra fabric (ie tunic) adds weight not curves, imho.

Embrace the curves! I don't get why Ashley is not doing that.

Fail.

Edited October 29, 2015 by NewDigs

[sleepyjean]

When did Ashley shave the side of her head? Did she look like that on last week's episode?

[Wings]

I think she started with a shaved side and as the show progressed there was no time or opportunity to keep up the color or shape of the cut.  It was probably the first thing she took care of when she went home. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by wings707

[yeswedo]

This is the spoilers thread not a live chat thread. If there is interest we can do one a live chat for finale part 2.

 

Posts have been hidden for now and some will be moved to the episode thread once it's open. 

[Wings]

Oops, bad dogs.  **tail between legs**  We didn't know we could not chew the couch.  Really we didn't. 

[Rhetorica]

I'm not sure if this link has been posted. If so, sorry.

http://news.moviefone.com/2015/10/02/who-will-win-project-runway-season-14-see-finale-collections/

[PepperMonkey]

I looked at these a few weeks ago,but it was good to see them again AFTER viewing part 1 of the finale (the longest two hours of my life in recent memory)...

 

I like Kelly's better than I liked the mini collection, but I still abhor that dress with the "flesh coloured" mesh inserts. It's just ugly.

 

Ashley's looked like more of the same, which makes sense as she was given NO negative critique whatever.

 

Candice really did tone hers down, which made it even MORE Hot Topic than some of her creations during the weekly challenges.

 

Edmond did the most work, I am thinking, even though we have yet to see his other designs as most of them are still packed in their respective garment bags.

I'm actually thinking Edmond might pull out this win. It's definitely between him and Kelly, unless they do Ashley. Oh gods, who knows? I'm pretty sure it's NOT Candice.

Edited October 30, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[SteveAC10]

 

Edmond did the most work, I am thinking, even though we have yet to see his other designs as most of them are still packed in their respective garment bags.

I'm actually thinking Edmond might pull out this win. It's definitely between him and Kelly, unless they do Ashley. Oh gods, who knows? I'm pretty sure it's NOT Candice.

Maybe they'll just admit they made a mistake and give Swapnil the win anyway. His collection is miles beyond the others in creativity and execution. He obviously quit phoning it in once they cut him loose.

[backgroundnoise]

I think Swapnil was lucky not having to have a minicollection critiqued.  They probably would have told him he needed to add shorts.

 

Swapnil's is by far the best, IMO, and it looked like it would move beautifully too.  I hope he got lots of good press out of it.

 

Candice dumbed her's down so much that when I looked at the pictures before last night, I couldn't decide who made Candice's and Edmond's, they ended up looking so much alike.  Way to go, judge's.  Let take all the exuberance and individuality out of the collections.

[Kareem]

I had posted this in Swapnil's thread. It's his collection, walking. Nice...

https://instagram.com/p/72aIqEmFmC/

[Kitty Redstone]

Thank you for posting that, Kareem!  I was looking over the collections again and wishing I could see Swapnil's clothes in motion.  Just beautiful.  There's not a one I don't love.  Now to wonder if the people in the audience were stunned that he wasn't in the running for the big prize?

[Wings]

This is the spoilers thread not a live chat thread. If there is interest we can do one a live chat for finale part 2.

 

Posts have been hidden for now and some will be moved to the episode thread once it's open. 

 

I would love to be able to post as I watch during the finale.   They unlock the episode thread for finales on other shows and it's fun! .  

[RemoteControlFreak]

I'm not sure if this link has been posted. If so, sorry.

http://news.moviefone.com/2015/10/02/who-will-win-project-runway-season-14-see-finale-collections/

 

Grades 

 

Swapnil ... fresh, innovative, phenomenal use of pastel palette A+

 

Kelly ... vast improvement over what she showed in Finale, Part 1. What looked cheap and too young, now looks sophisticated but still edgy. B+

 

Merline ... beautiful, clean and new, but too much of the same thing. Can we see more variation in hemline? And marked down half a grade for styling them all in the hats, especially in the red hat that looks OK on the models but looked stilly when Merline wore it 24/7 during taping of the season.  B

 

Edmond ... Eh.  Yawn.  Ruffles. Black and white ruffles.  That's it?  Looks well executed though.  Maybe. C+

 

Ashley .... see Swapnil for how to use pastels. This all looks like doll clothing. And, while Ashley is an obvious exception, most plus size women want clothes that make them look less plus size.  Neither the garments nor, especially, the flower helmets, do that. There are too many horizontal lines across the widest part of the body. C

 

Candace ... nothing new here, especially with the last look. WTF?  D

 

Win to Kelly.

Edited October 30, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[Bebecat]

I think if someone has to win and it can't be Swapnil, I would settle for Edmond.

I hate everything about Ashley's except for some of her models. Of course, this was the case all season for me.

[ParadoxLost]

I'm not sure if this link has been posted. If so, sorry.

http://news.moviefone.com/2015/10/02/who-will-win-project-runway-season-14-see-finale-collections/

 

This makes me think the mini collection is just a farce and totally rigged to create a storyline. There is no way that the collections can be fixed to this degree.  The pieces for the mini had to be specifically selected to set up the critiques and then have the winner 'wow' the judges that they can take critique and do 'miracles' next week. Edmond's and Kelley's in particular.

 

I think the producers pick the pieces (and that is probably why it was a non elimination, we are just here to help mini collection critique) and have seen the full collection before they do.

 

Frankly, in Edmond and Kelly's collection had they picked any other outfit to put in and the judge's critique would have fallen apart.  I think that's exactly why we saw what we saw, so the judges can be the experts/mentors and have something to 'discuss'.  Ooh, XYZ really listened and scripted storyline blah blah blah.

 

I think its possible Candace could have picked her own looks and decided to keep the best ones back but genuinely thought they were all strong.  I think she's the most freaked out and the sentiment that they slammed her hardest is a bit because they know their own collections and have seen the others and know that Candace's is the only one that got a 'harsh' critique that wasn't already mostly addressed in the rest of the collection. 

 

They kept saying that Cadace was told to change everything.  Until I saw these photos, I was confused because it really sounded like Edmond and Kelly were also told they needed to change everything.  Because how do you fix questions that basically sound like 'is your whole collection matronly' and 'does your whole collection look cheap'?  Either via editing or 'script' both Edmond and Kely gave me the impression that they were toast.

 

Ashley's are genuinely awful.  The only thing I can think is that they were using the mini collection judging to send a message about 'plus size'.  Its really badly designed.  Awful headdress.  Awful color.  But I bet she loses because they told her it was great but it needed the detail work fixed but they know its poorly constructed enough that its not fixable so they can use that as a safe, no blowback reason Ashley loses.

 

And I think hair is and make up is toed down or wrong on purpose too to make the finale show look better.  I';; be over here in the corner in my tinfoil hat.

Edited October 30, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[leighdear]

I actually liked Ashley's short, turquoise t-shirt dress.  Definitely a throw-it-over-your-bathing-suit-to-hit-the-beach-bar kinda thing, but cute. But literally the ONLY thing of hers I liked. 

 

Kelly did great glittery, sparkly shoes on all of her runway models which I think was a drastic improvement over her mini show.  Edmond also showed gorgeous ankle-wrap sandals with all of his looks.  Candace did some strange clunky platforms and Ashley used ugly mis-matched shoes for her models.  

Edited October 31, 2015 by leighdear

[Wings]

I agree, Paradox that something is up.  I don't know to what degree.  I have never considered this manipulation before now.  What made me take note was their fawning over Ashley's truly hideous collection complete with exposed bra. 

 

I tried to find what looks Siriano showed in the mini viewing but could not.  Here is his final runway collection. 

Interesting that if he presented any of those looks last night, they would all say too costumey.  Finding out what he brought and what the judges said would be interesting.  

 

Edited October 31, 2015 by wings707

[ParadoxLost]

I doubt there was the same degree of manipulation going on with Siriano because back then they were still using the preview collection to eliminate a designer and create the decoy for the finale show.  I think manipulation has to be less when they are eliminating a contestant from winning.  So I think the seasons this happens most blatantly are likely the ones where part one of the finale have no real consequences to who is still in the running to win.

 

Its that the finale has no consequences that is most fishy.  Why bother?  Why make them create a new look for that matter and one that doesn't have to go into the final collection?

[leighdear]

And back then Michael Kors was running the judging, Heidi could actually focus on the show and Nina Garcia wasn't a worn out and irrelevant has-been that she's become.  And Tim Gunn had impartiality, fairness and a willingness to actually help the contestants. 

 

I don't think any of those things are in evidence these days. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by leighdear

[Kareem]

Interesting how Ashley's mini collection looks like Ashley's runway, and Edmund's mini still appeared to have women eaten by ruffles on the runway. Candice seems to have toned down the Asian nightmare and went back to her usual love of black and leather with some red thrown in and Kelly's looked less HealthTex mini and more runway club. I'm almost afraid to know what the judges will have to say about this varied group.

[backgroundnoise]

In Siriano's season, only Chris and Ramy had to present a minicollection, as only one of them could compete in the finale.  They hadn't started insisting on seeing a sample of the collection merely to critique all of them back then.  They started doing that in S6, where there was no need to see a mini, but they did anyway, and have ever since.

 

I think these days, Siriano's would have gotten much the same reaction as Candace's did. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by backgroundnoise

[slothgirl]

wishing I could see Swapnil's clothes in motion.  Just beautiful.  There's not a one I don't love.  Now to wonder if the people in the audience were stunned that he wasn't in the running for the big prize?

They wouldn't have known at the time that he WASN"T in the running. That's why they have everyone who is still "in" based on the tv timeline, show at fashion week even if they are out IRL.

 

In Siriano's season, only Chris and Ramy had to present a minicollection, as only one of them could compete in the finale.  They hadn't started insisting on seeing a sample of the collection merely to critique all of them back then.  They started doing that in S6, where there was no need to see a mini, but they did anyway, and have ever since.

I've gotten the impression that they do this whole preview mini collection now as the overall quality of designers has gone down. They have their names on this thing and they don't want to be embarrassed at FW by having bad collections shown under the PR umbrella.

 

Of course, it's their own fault if they send awful designers (because they have control over who gets on the show in the first place) or if even good designers do awful collections because they have so much less time to go home and make the collections, but whatever.

[DarkMatter]

I actually liked Ashley's short, turquoise t-shirt dress.  Definitely a throw-it-over-your-bathing-suit-to-hit-the-beach-bar kinda thing, but cute. But literally the ONLY thing of hers I liked. 

 

Kelly did great glittery, sparkly shoes on all of her runway models which I think was a drastic improvement over her mini show.  Edmond also showed gorgeous ankle-wrap sandals with all of his looks.  Candace did some strange clunky platforms and Ashley used ugly mis-matched shoes for her models.  

 

To the bolded:  That was the only decent garment in Ashley's collection - everything else was ugly or just so wrong.  I would wear something like that with jeans or over leggins as a tunic. 

 

As for the other three, I ended up liking almost eveything each one put out.

[Kitty Redstone]

They wouldn't have known at the time that he WASN"T in the running. That's why they have everyone who is still "in" based on the tv timeline, show at fashion week even if they are out IRL.

 

Yes, I know.  I've been a PR viewer for a long time and understand the necessity for decoy collections.  I guess I wasn't being clear.  To rephrase, I wonder if those who were in the audience that day were stunned to find out later that he wasn't in the running for the big prize and was just showing as a decoy.

[ratgirlagogo]

Candace's looks SO toned down that it's basically a more boring version of Kelly's collection.  At least before it was as Sarah Bunting said, Trash and Vaudeville - this really is not even Hot Topic, it's almost Strawberry in its mundaneness.  Referential her original stuff may have been - but it was dramatic, and if it was costumey, oh who cares.  This collection may avoid costumey, but dang it is boring.

 

 

I think Swapnil was lucky not having to have a minicollection critiqued.  They probably would have told him he needed to add shorts.

Seriously.  

[Koffee Kup]

I always thought runway shows were supposed to be over the top verging on the border of costume, not ready to wear.   Seeing Candace's collection with none of her wood pieces is just sad.

[Freckledbruh]

I always thought runway shows were supposed to be over the top verging on the border of costume, not ready to wear.   Seeing Candace's collection with none of her wood pieces is just sad.

Actually, it depends on the category of clothing. Haute couture? OTT show. RTW? Toned down. Resort? Also toned down. Also, unless you are known for costumes like The Blondes, it shouldn't actually look like costume. Fantasy, yes, but not costume. Candace over edited IMHO because the over coordination and some of the cheesy styling (that hat and those gloves) is what caused it to veer towards costume. I, too, was SO disappointed to see that she yanked the wood pieces. They were awesome and would have been so avant garde.

[leighdear]

For MY view, as long as the individual pieces aren't too bizarre to wear in public, the styling and accessories worn on the runway can be OTT and Avant Garde.  The customer won't necessarily be buying those items.  That's why Candance's things like hats and the added dramatic props didn't bother me. They didn't detract from her looks.   I could see a lot of her items on the red carpet and at something like the Met Ball.  I think Edmond's white ruffle dress would work there too. 

 

Ashley's hats looked silly to me, but I don't think they detracted from her clothing.  It was the actual clothing that I felt was completely wrong, poorly made and unflattering.  It detracted from the beauty of the models.  And that is absolutely criminal. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by leighdear

[Koffee Kup]

So does anyone have the ultimate spoiler, aka the winner?

[RealityCreator]

I'm not a fan of Candice, but it is sad to see that she eliminated the wood pieces.  Those pieces at least made her collection interesting!  

 

Thanks, wings707, for linking Siriano's original PR collection.  Sigh.  Those were the days...

Edited November 2, 2015 by RealityCreator

[Wings]

For MY view, as long as the individual pieces aren't too bizarre to wear in public, the styling and accessories worn on the runway can be OTT and Avant Garde.  The customer won't necessarily be buying those items.  That's why Candance's things like hats and the added dramatic props didn't bother me. They didn't detract from her looks.   I could see a lot of her items on the red carpet and at something like the Met Ball.  I think Edmond's white ruffle dress would work there too. 

 

Ashley's hats looked silly to me, but I don't think they detracted from her clothing.  It was the actual clothing that I felt was completely wrong, poorly made and unflattering.  It detracted from the beauty of the models.  And that is absolutely criminal. 

 

I agree.  We see outlandish accessories on the runway all the time, then a pic of a celeb wearing the dress on the runway without the extra stuff.  It is done every damn time.  I think Nina didn't like that Candice copied McQueen pretty literally. 

 

RealityCreator I am disappointed she is not showing her wood pieces, too.  She may have "borrowed" that as well and decided to nix it for that reason. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by wings707

[leighdear]

If you Google Alexander McQueen, you can get examples of his looks that everybody in this competition has referenced at one time or another.  He did a full dress covered with Flowers that looks like Ashley's. 

 

I think the judges initially had high hopes for Ashley and she majorly let them down.  And now they are stuck trying to make fetch happen because they elevated her up to poster-child status and they think can't take it back without looking like idiots.  

 

I can see Ashley designing for a plus line like mall chain, Torrid, but no way she has the chops to put out her own label and be successful.  I also think Edmond should work for a major label, but I think Kelly & Candace can do it on their own.  

Edited November 2, 2015 by leighdear

[still hoping]

If you google Alexander McQueen wooden pieces...

 

you will see a lot...many remember the carved wooden legs he had made for an amputee model but he also did big balsa wood skirts and vest with like ? wing pieces...and huge hat = all wooden

Maybe Nina flipped on that stuff and Candace decided not to show them? we don't hear everything obviously

 

wood skirt...he had wood dress..wood vest with ? wings....wood hat,  and more

[leighdear]

I also think Candace's level of style and construction is as developed as it was when she came in, so I haven't seen any marked "progression".  And I'm ok with that.  Not every designer arrives in the chrysalis and emerges at the end a butterfly.  Or a moth.  Or something more than they began as.  Some show up well formed and ready to be showcased. 

 

And to trot out Christian Siriano again, he was also a confident, accomplished and talented designer from day 1.  He just hadn't gotten commercial recognition at that point.  Hell, he was a baby of 21 when he won!  And I believe he would be as successful now without PR.  I see Candace as the same type of designer.  

 

I also believe that Swapnil had that entire decoy collection in his back pocket and was determined to make it far enough that he could show at Fashion Week.  I don't think he wanted to bow & scrape to the judges so much to get the win, though I imagine anybody would want the money.  

And I also believe that Tim realized all Swapi wanted was a runway show, so TG came up with the whole "lazy and unmotivated" story line as retribution and ran with it full tilt.  

 

Because I also believe that THIS Tim Gunn is petty enough to do it.  I wouldn't have said that a few years back.  

Edited November 3, 2015 by leighdear

[BlackberryJam]

The problem with Ashley's plus-sized collection is that it doesn't address plus-sized proportion issues. Some women have a big bottom and smaller top half. Others are the other way around. None of these looks addresses the issue of a woman having extra poundage in the area between the boobs and waist. All of these looks are for women of a larger size but still on proportion. That's why I look at them and think, 'Nah, no plus-sized woman is going to wear that.' And, the color palette is cotton candy vomit. 

[Wings]

Rebel Wilson has a new plus size clothing line.  This is the way to do it. 

 

http://www.marieclaire.com/fashion/news/a16720/rebel-wilson-new-plus-size-fashion-line-torrid/

 

If you google Alexander McquQueen, on his site he has ready to wear.  Candice is heavily influenced by him in everything thing she does.  His clothes are black and red.  

 

I cannot see her winning.  They all know his line.  Edmond has too many ruffles and dresses that are definitely not sexy.  His bulky tiered blue dress is hideous.  I cannot see him winning either. 

 

I bet they give it to Ashley.  Horrifying thought.  

Edited November 4, 2015 by wings707

[leighdear]

Wings, That Torrid line by Rebel is exactly why I suggested upthread that Ashley could design for a chain like them.  I think she would do fine at a low-risk and marginally trendy organization that didn't need true originality and had others actually producing the garments. 

 

Part of my problem with the judges continually referencing Alexander McQueen is that he's been dead for 5 years.  His company however, is as referential as they're accusing Candace as being.   Because he's dead.  And the people left are doing what they think he'd do.  They are referring to his past designs because they have NO way of knowing what he'd be doing in 2015.  Because he's dead.  They act like he just ran out for a cup of Starbucks and will be right back to whip out a new collection.  Idiots. 

[Wings]

Wings, That Torrid line by Rebel is exactly why I suggested upthread that Ashley could design for a chain like them.  I think she would do fine at a low-risk and marginally trendy organization that didn't need true originality and had others actually producing the garments. 

 

Part of my problem with the judges continually referencing Alexander McQueen is that he's been dead for 5 years.  His company however, is as referential as they're accusing Candace as being.   Because he's dead.  And the people left are doing what they think he'd do.  They are referring to his past designs because they have NO way of knowing what he'd be doing in 2015.  Because he's dead.  They act like he just ran out for a cup of Starbucks and will be right back to whip out a new collection.  Idiots. 

 

 

I didn't know he was dead.  I had not heard of Torid until you mentioned it.  She offered her name and really isn't doing any designing herself.  She was on Ellen the other day wearing the black and gray striped dress.  She is a very big woman and looked good.  

 

The same people who are designing the McQueen collection now have probably been doing it for many years.  Michael Kors does not design all of his line either. He is involved and has the final say, of course.  It is always a team effort. 

Edited November 4, 2015 by wings707

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Rebel Wilson has a new plus size clothing line.

And featured right in MarieClaire of course.

[Cramps]

Ha! I came on here to post about this! I was shrieking at my husband, "That wooden skirt is a complete McQueen ripoff!" It had it's own section at the Met show.

If you google Alexander McQueen wooden pieces...

you will see a lot...many remember the carved wooden legs he had made for an amputee model but he also did big balsa wood skirts and vest with like ? wing pieces...and huge hat = all wooden

Maybe Nina flipped on that stuff and Candace decided not to show them? we don't hear everything obviously

wood skirt...he had wood dress..wood vest with ? wings....wood hat, and more

[Cramps]

I didn't know he was dead. I had not heard of Torid until you mentioned it. She offered her name and really isn't doing any designing herself. She was on Ellen the other day wearing the black and gray striped dress. She is a very big woman and looked good.

The same people who are designing the McQueen collection now have probably been doing it for many years. Michael Kors does not design all of his line either. He is involved and has the final say, of course. It is always a team effort.

Sarah Burton, McQueen's head designer now, worked with him when he was alive. But it's not the same as Kors. Michael Kors' company is relatively huge. Making tons of fairly tamely designed products. McQueen's was/is pretty small, and--Kate's wedding dress aside-- was known for being incredibly, brilliantly, artistically cutting edge. So before he chose to end his life, I suspect he played a much bigger role in the design process than Kors does. Edited November 4, 2015 by Cramps

[Wings]

Thanks for the info, Cramps.  

[NewDigs]

If you google Alexander McQueen wooden pieces...

 

you will see a lot...many remember the carved wooden legs he had made for an amputee model but he also did big balsa wood skirts and vest with like ? wing pieces...and huge hat = all wooden

Maybe Nina flipped on that stuff and Candace decided not to show them? we don't hear everything obviously

 

wood skirt...he had wood dress..wood vest with ? wings....wood hat,  and more

That skirt is sublime.

My mom, sis and I saw the Met show and it was breathtaking! Mom and I watch PR and at one point I just stopped and had to say that it seemed like almost every PR designer copied him.

A real eye-opener.

Appreciate the added info CRAMPS.

Gone way too soon.

[mansonlamps]

Is it me or did Rebel Wilson lose a ton of weight? Our else she's heavily airbrushed in those pictures. I agree her clothes are cute but, come on, that model is barely a size 12, it's not that hard to dress her. And why does Melissa McCarthy's line start at a size 4? For all the super skinny girls who are dying to try plus sized wear?

[yeswedo]

Please try to keep most of your discussion here to Project Runway. Feel free to start a designer comparison thread for detailed talk. 

 

Thanks

[Cramps]

Sorry to go astray, Yeswedo.

All designers are influenced by others' work before them, But when you see a collection with pieces, like that wooden skirt, which is now an iconic piece (it was featured in the most viewed fashion exhibit, ever). And the project runway designer mimics it in the same color wood, it's a very strange choice for them to make.

All that said, looking at the runway photos, I'm disappointed she listened to the judges and cut the drama out of her collection. As someone above implied, I'd rather see someone trying to be McQueen than to be Trash and Vaudeville.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Cramps