A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[Moose135]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:05 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

One time I had a manager who said we could take 'Blue Sky' days - it's a nice day out, and you don't feel like coming in, just say so.

 

On 9/13/2023 at 4:15 PM, JTMacc99 said:

It's amazing how much a single day working from home can recharge one's battery.

I started working from home full time when we went into the COVID shut downs in March 2020. Before that, I would WFH occasionally, including most Fridays. That was a contract role which ended in late 2021, and I found a new, permanent position at a 'remote first' company - over half of our staff works remotely. I'm fully remote, my manager is in San Fransisco, his boss is in Denver, and our company is out of Utah. The last time I worked in an office was March 13, 2020 and I hope I never have to set foot in one for work again.

 

 

7 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

 I come from the school of thought that you should never tell your boss if you are looking for another job.  My boss told me once she would hope I would be open about it if I was looking for another job.  She strikes me as someone who would take it very personally if I left.  While maybe that’s unfair I would still possibly need her as a reference so no to burn bridges.

Unless it is for an internal position, and company policy requires it, do not say anything to your manager - or really anyone else in your company - until you have accepted a new position and have a confirmed start date. You have nothing to gain by having your manager know you are looking for a new job.

11 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

...it's certainly not what I thought I'd be doing when I was in college.

I earned an aerospace engineering degree in college, then went on to fly jets in the Air Force. Now I'm an business analyst...

[SuprSuprElevated]

6 hours ago, Moose135 said:

One time I had a manager who said we could take 'Blue Sky' days - it's a nice day out, and you don't feel like coming in, just say so.

 

I started working from home full time when we went into the COVID shut downs in March 2020. Before that, I would WFH occasionally, including most Fridays. That was a contract role which ended in late 2021, and I found a new, permanent position at a 'remote first' company - over half of our staff works remotely. I'm fully remote, my manager is in San Fransisco, his boss is in Denver, and our company is out of Utah. The last time I worked in an office was March 13, 2020 and I hope I never have to set foot in one for work again.

 

 

Unless it is for an internal position, and company policy requires it, do not say anything to your manager - or really anyone else in your company - until you have accepted a new position and have a confirmed start date. You have nothing to gain by having your manager know you are looking for a new job.

I earned an aerospace engineering degree in college, then went on to fly jets in the Air Force. Now I'm an business analyst...

Thanks for serving! 🎶Offaygo...🎶  Soft spot. Dad was ground crew on a P-38 squadron, 1941-2, photo recon (though in his head, he was a pilot).

 

[chitowngirl]

12 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Random thought: does anyone else feel like they don’t have a career and just have jobs? 

Absolutely! I had a career going until I had kids and then it made more sense for me to be a SAHM and that lasted until they were in HS. The lean $$ years! We moved to a different state in there and so I lost my contacts needed to get back into my field and not have to start over. I work for the school district now for WAY less then I could be making, but it satisfies me for now. And this is not my chosen field or education degree. In terms of salary comparison, my cousin got bonuses equal to what used to be my yearly salary. Didn’t make me less than or diminish what I did, it’s just how those things shake out sometimes. 

[isalicat]

21 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Random thought: does anyone else feel like they don’t have a career and just have jobs? 

I've given this some thought since you posted it, Cloud9Shopper, and want to give you this reply:

I had every intention of a career in academia, and went as far as to get a M.A. and then three years into a Ph.D. program. My parents paid my tuition for my B.A. and gave me $500./month for living expenses; after that I was on my own, so was working full time through all the graduate classes except for my three month honeymoon trip in Europe which overlapped with a month spent doing research in London for my masters' thesis (on the $5 per day plan...the opposite of lux travel!). I literally fell into a job (technical recruiting) that I proved quite good at in the first year of my Ph.D. program and after the end of the third year realized I was amassing a lot of debt with the prospect of considerably more before I had my doctoral degree, and the end result would have been (at best!) a move to some place outside of California to claw my way up the tenure track (at best!). So I left the Ph.D. program (in good standing - I could go back - right...) and focused on the job, which turned into 40 years of making a very good living and the flexibility not only to work remotely, live in the mountains where I could ski out my front door, raise my kid without childcare issues in a very healthy environment and have time for all my other pursuits. Eventually I realized that these "other pursuits" were a way I could contribute my time and talent to God and to the people around me far more effectively than having a Ph.D. and teaching at the university level. So my job facilitated the perfect life (for me). I say all this because I would urge you to focus on what you want to do with your life and what really gives you joy. If your way of supporting yourself aids and abets that adequately then who cares if its a "career"? Our title at work should not define our self worth, right? And if other people's opinions or choices give you that impression, that is their loss, because careers always have an end and life is incredibly short.

[theredhead77]

On 9/18/2023 at 5:43 PM, Moose135 said:

then went on to fly jets in the Air Force.

Were you flying F302s?  

[Cloud9Shopper]

4 hours ago, isalicat said:

I say all this because I would urge you to focus on what you want to do with your life and what really gives you joy. If your way of supporting yourself aids and abets that adequately then who cares if its a "career"? 

Thanks for this. It really gave me a different perspective on things and will help as I consider retooling my career over the next year. I want to do work I can tolerate (so the goal is still to get out of front-facing customer service roles), but I also want to have more doors opened salary-wise and be able to pay off my debt and increase my savings. Still scared for my 40s and age discrimination but I’m also not planning to apply at Facebook or Google or any big companies that only value young people either. 

[Moose135]

3 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Were you flying F302s?  

No, the KC-135...

[SuprSuprElevated]

14 hours ago, Moose135 said:

No, the KC-135

I just want to know, if you had to eject, would they be able to locate it?  

<snark font>

[Moose135]

We didn't need no stinkin' ejection seats in the tanker!  We did carry parachutes, but realistically, there was no way to safely get out of that airplane unless it was  stopped on the ground.

[Bookish Jen]

Good news. I'm still in the running for that long-term temp job I was telling you about. The company is still interviewing and need to do background checks.

However, the non-profit I temper at last fall needed someone for a couple of weeks and welcomed me back.

[emma675]

Congrats, @Bookish Jen!

[Cloud9Shopper]

I have a second-round interview this coming week, and the job I had two rounds with already is still reviewing applications and interviews so they told me they should know who’s going to the final round within the next two weeks.

I think I would like the job I’m interviewing for this week, though. It is not customer service (yay!) although it is in a similar industry to where I am now and I would be able to utilize some of the past skills I gained that I want to use in my next position. And the pay would be a significant improvement.

I am getting sick of applying and interviewing though, and I need a break, but for some reason feel like I can’t bring myself to take one. I’m paranoid and feel like taking a break means I’d miss out on some fantastic job opportunity. And I also don’t want to stop, rest on my laurels, and then oh crap three years have gone by and I’m still in customer service. I know I have to keep pushing and can do more. 

[BlueSkies]

A good test of how much you dislike your present job is by at what time in the day Sunday you start getting grumpy and stomach cramps thinking of the work week ahead.  Right now I'm not there yet but getting closer.

 

There's been points in my life where it's felt worse though.  Like Sunday at 1 or 2 o'clock yeah Dread Overtook Me.  

[BlueSkies]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:21 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Random thought: does anyone else feel like they don’t have a career and just have jobs? 

I was thinking about this today, and maybe social media and talking to Internet strangers (where everyone is a high earner or a director of this or a VP of that department or a manager of this other thing) is skewing my perspective a little bit, but I feel like a failure in that I’ve never really had a straight career path. I thought I would finally get one in my old job, but then I got laid off and had to go back to a random job to pay the bills and I’m still looking for something more appropriate for my abilities and strengths. I’ve never gone from entry level job to mid level job to team lead (or whatever), etc. with big pay increases in every job. I mean I was making $13 an hour six years ago and now I’m at $25 but that’s still nothing compared to people getting huge increases every time they jump jobs.

I just feel like a minority when there are so many successful people in my family and among my friends who do have these careers, and I wonder if it’s even worth it at nearly age 40 to try. I am terrified of getting older at this point because so many career doors close to you and age discrimination starts. I have some other mental health problems associated with that, I’d imagine, but part of me wants to better myself and part of me wants to say “this is as good as it gets; enjoy getting interviews now before no one wants you in a few years.” 

I hear you.

It was back in 2010/2011 ish I worked a part time job at night as a test proctor.  It was me and 3 other people.  We just kind of looked at each other and jokingly called ourselves the "Recession grads" because none of those other people had like a permanent full time job at the time.  We all had a few part time jobs to get by.

 

When I got an offer to take a full time job not long after with benefits I took it.  But I mean like you said I always just saw this place of employment as like a means not an end.  But I have been here since.

 

Looking back the thing was I enjoyed that part time job at night.  The boss was cool and all and realized we weren't going to stay doing that forever.  But it seems there is always some catch.  Sigh 

Edited September 24, 2023 by BlueSkies

[magicdog]

It's been an unusual day for me today at the office.  First, I come in today and naturally, one of the top stories is the recap of the Life is Beautiful music festival.  It's the 10th anniversary of some big named musical acts performing in open staging areas with plenty of fans crowding in to watch.  It began on Friday night and ran through Saturday.  I was looking for video, but to my surprise I found none.  How?  Why?  

I asked the producer, who tole me we were unable to film any of this even because we don't bother sending photogs on nights we do not have a 10pm show (which was this Saturday since for the duration, we'll be all football games during the afternoon and evenings).  So, rather than send a photog to film some new broll of this big event, even if they weren't going to use it until Sunday night or Monday morning, they chose to not cover it at all.  Instead we used mostly still photos from various Twitter pages.  If I had been management I would have screamed!  Of course if I HAD been management, I wouldn't have let this happen.  This gave me flashbacks to when I first started working there, we didn't even have people sitting at the news desk listening to the scanners on weekends and often didn't cover things like parades and people would ask why we didn't have any video of these things.  Well, now you know.

 

Then while editing a story about Kelly Clarkson (who sang on the Strip - with a karoke machine) I downloaded the link given to me (it came from her twitter account).  We use various downloading websites to get YT vids and FB vids, etc. to edit them into stories.  Naturally I used the same one we've been using for a while.  When I searched for the video I thought I downloaded, I found something, how shall I put it... NSFW!  I was shocked and don't know how this happened since I opened the link in the computer and it was the video I wanted not the NSFW one.  I tried another download and fortunately, the correct video came in this time.  I contacted my supervisor immediately, explained what happened and said he'd have our tech guys delete from the system immediately.  He knows I don't download anything without permission and I certainly do not surf unsuitable material either at work or at home.  It's still a mystery.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

Had a second-round interview today with a hiring manager that I think went well. The recruiter told me she would talk to the hiring manager tomorrow and get back to me if I proceed to the next steps. Happy to say the job is not a call center, and if I do have to contact customers, it will only be through email. 

I am having a little bit of a career struggle right now. I do want to retool and create better prospects for myself but I can’t seem to decide whether to take a more practical path for an in-demand field or go with the thing that truly makes me happy. What would make me happiest is working in marketing or even doing some kind of professional writing (as in, proposal writing or grant writing, copywriting, just as some examples). I’ve written Intranet articles at a past employer and did a couple of volunteer writing projects that I enjoyed. That said, marketing and writing are absolutely saturated. 

But on the flip side I feel like I should choose a career that’s more in demand, like accounting, to increase salary and job prospects. I’m not sure if I want a CPA anyway which I know some consider almost necessary to be successful in accounting. However there is a demand for accountants and more job security. 

If I had to pick, though, like right this minute? I’d do marketing or professional writing. 

[stewedsquash]

Do not pick accounting if you have issues with people having money and or paying the least amount of taxes possible. It will mess with your well being

[BlueSkies]

54 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Do not pick accounting if you have issues with people having money and or paying the least amount of taxes possible. It will mess with your well being

That sounds more like Tax Accounting you're describing.

 

There's bookkeeping, accounts payable/receivable, payroll, Cost/Staff Accountant type roles as well.  I'd think one could find a job in it without getting too much exposed to what you're describing.  

[supposebly]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

What would make me happiest is working in marketing or even doing some kind of professional writing (as in, proposal writing or grant writing, copywriting, just as some examples). I’ve written Intranet articles at a past employer and did a couple of volunteer writing projects that I enjoyed. That said, marketing and writing are absolutely saturated.

I can't speak to saturation and obviously I don't live your life and also speak from a place of privilege (sort of, I finally ended up with my dream job and salary in my late 40s) but wouldn't being happy in your job be better in the long term?

And you would actually be good at it if it's something you enjoy and have some experience with? Wouldn't that turn into career more likely than just another job?

[isalicat]

22 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

What would make me happiest is working in marketing or even doing some kind of professional writing (as in, proposal writing or grant writing, copywriting, just as some examples). I’ve written Intranet articles at a past employer and did a couple of volunteer writing projects that I enjoyed. That said, marketing and writing are absolutely saturated. 

Just a suggestion: There are a number of on-line resources to learn how to write grants (The Grantsmanship Center for one), and then once you feel ready to try it, find an organization that needs money (and would qualify for a grant) and do it for them on a volunteer basis (you can sign up for a three day vetting stint on Grantwatch to find applicable grants and then unsubscribe). Do that again, rinse and repeat. Once you get the experience you can sign up with Grantwatch.com as a paid contract grant writer for organizations looking for someone to do this for them. This would be a side gig at first, but if you build a successful track record it could evolve into a real career, and it would all be working from home.

I did all this without any prior experience because the food pantry I volunteer at was in dire need of money so I started small (local grants from city and county organizations) and then went up from there to larger commercial organizations offering grants (like the Albertsons Foundation - they gave us $10K and another one gave us $20K). I have no plans to try doing this for pay, but its definitely a possibility.

[theredhead77]

1 hour ago, isalicat said:

Just a suggestion: There are a number of on-line resources to learn how to write grants (The Grantsmanship Center for one), and then once you feel ready to try it, find an organization that needs money (and would qualify for a grant) and do it for them on a volunteer basis (you can sign up for a three day vetting stint on Grantwatch to find applicable grants and then unsubscribe). Do that again, rinse and repeat. Once you get the experience you can sign up with Grantwatch.com as a paid contract grant writer for organizations looking for someone to do this for them. This would be a side gig at first, but if you build a successful track record it could evolve into a real career, and it would all be working from home.

I did all this without any prior experience because the food pantry I volunteer at was in dire need of money so I started small (local grants from city and county organizations) and then went up from there to larger commercial organizations offering grants (like the Albertsons Foundation - they gave us $10K and another one gave us $20K). I have no plans to try doing this for pay, but its definitely a possibility.

Thanks for this! I'm actually looking for a legitimate WFH side gig and this would be right up my alley.

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, isalicat said:

Just a suggestion: There are a number of on-line resources to learn how to write grants (The Grantsmanship Center for one), and then once you feel ready to try it, find an organization that needs money (and would qualify for a grant) and do it for them on a volunteer basis (you can sign up for a three day vetting stint on Grantwatch to find applicable grants and then unsubscribe). Do that again, rinse and repeat. Once you get the experience you can sign up with Grantwatch.com as a paid contract grant writer for organizations looking for someone to do this for them. This would be a side gig at first, but if you build a successful track record it could evolve into a real career, and it would all be working from home.

I did all this without any prior experience because the food pantry I volunteer at was in dire need of money so I started small (local grants from city and county organizations) and then went up from there to larger commercial organizations offering grants (like the Albertsons Foundation - they gave us $10K and another one gave us $20K). I have no plans to try doing this for pay, but its definitely a possibility.

Thank you for the info! I have considered grant writing in the past but never got too far into it. 

Found out today I got some extra responsibility at work, although it’s not a promotion; just an extra line or two of experience to add to my resume. If neither of the jobs I am waiting to hear from get back to me or reject me, I will probably honestly give up the job search until the new year and focus on gaining the extra experience. The application and interviewing fatigue has been real lately, and I’m not as focused on it as I was even a month or two ago. 

[isalicat]

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

Thanks for this! I'm actually looking for a legitimate WFH side gig and this would be right up my alley.

Glad to be of help! One big tip: Take the time to watch some of the free podcasts that are available on the Grantsmanship Center every three months: They have 3 guests who are the grant givers at big foundations and I found it really helpful to understand what these foundations are "looking for" (partners, not supplicants, to be clear). You also need to be very detailed oriented and supply precise facts and data (like a budget) for each organization that you are applying on behalf of (sorry for the mangled English there). It gets easier as you go on; the first ones will be challenging!

[Cloud9Shopper]

Well, have a third interview next week for the administrative job I’m in contention for. This round is with the hiring manager (my second time meeting with them) and one other person on my potential team. I don’t know if there any interviews after this phase but I’m crossing my fingers we’re getting near the end of interviews. 

If I achieve my goal to get out of the call center by the end of the year it will be by the skin of my teeth! 

[Bookish Jen]

Well, unless there is a change of plans, I should be starting that temp job next week on the 9th.

[BlueSkies]

I read an article the past week I think on Linkedin.  It pretty much said what people look for in job is a lot different than 30 years ago.  Back then it was all about job advancement.  But today people are more likely to leave a job because they don't agree with management/dont like the visions of the company, etc...

 

Cant say I disagree personally 

[isalicat]

I hope this is okay with the forum mods. I wanted to provide a couple of links for those who might be interested in getting into grant writing (either as a help to any non-profits or other organizations, or as a potential part- or full-time career).

Here are two great places to start:

Foundant.com  (for educational webinars etc. and tools)

Grantstation.com (for free and low cost training - here is a freebie coming up:

https://grantstation.com/webinar/free-what-makes-proposal-winner

 

[Mondrianyone]

I know absolutely zip about grant writing, but I do know about writing. A few years ago an author whose books I'd worked on asked me if I would take a look at the essay portion of her grant proposal and clean and tighten it up, so I did. (She took care of all the technical requirements associated with the proposal.) And we won a Guggenheim.

So apart from just bragging, I would say that if you can afford it, hire a professional editor to look over your text and polish it.

[SuprSuprElevated]

On 10/1/2023 at 2:52 PM, Bookish Jen said:

Well, unless there is a change of plans, I should be starting that temp job next week on the 9th.

Yay!

[theredhead77]

Stop!Scheduling!Meetings!Over!Lunchtime!

[stewedsquash]

And so it begins…

[partofme]

2 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Stop!Scheduling!Meetings!Over!Lunchtime!

When I worked in the office pre-Covid, none of my coworkers would take a lunch hour.  It hadn’t been like that in my previous department and was weird to me. 
 

At least I work from home, but most days I average 5-7 meetings and a lot of them feel necessary.  I don’t know why it’s like that.  

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Stop!Scheduling!Meetings!Over!Lunchtime!

It MAY be okay if everyone is being fed (I'm assuming you mean in-person) as well.

[theredhead77]

44 minutes ago, PRgal said:

It MAY be okay if everyone is being fed (I'm assuming you mean in-person) as well.

We're remote and it's really never OK, even if the company is providing food, except in very rare circumstances like a conference or emergency. It's not OK to schedule a weekly meeting for the next 6 months at 12:30pm because that's the only slot available. That's the only slot available because people are at lunch. 

I hate toxic meeting culture.

2 hours ago, partofme said:

When I worked in the office pre-Covid, none of my coworkers would take a lunch hour.

That is poor company culture and promotes burn-out. People need brain breaks throughout the day.

There is a reason that hourly people have mandated paid breaks and mandated lunch slots. We need to normalize giving salaried people the same respect.

[PRgal]

7 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

We're remote and it's really never OK, even if the company is providing food, except in very rare circumstances like a conference or emergency. It's not OK to schedule a weekly meeting for the next 6 months at 12:30pm because that's the only slot available. That's the only slot available because people are at lunch. 

I hate toxic meeting culture.

That is poor company culture and promotes burn-out. People need brain breaks throughout the day.

There is a reason that hourly people have mandated paid breaks and mandated lunch slots. We need to normalize giving salaried people the same respect.

Whoa, it’s weekly?  Is this a national thing so they can accommodate different time zones?  My husband’s company is here but the US office is on the west coast, so sometimes, he has to do meetings late (ie 5 pm or after, eastern time) so people there can do 2 pm.  I mean, a 1:30 pm here/10:30 there is probably most ideal (or 2 here, 11 there) but it’s also about who is most available.  And then sometimes, you need to accommodate other, international time zones.  Meetings with Asia are even worse. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by PRgal

[Cloud9Shopper]

The interview I had today seemed to go well (it was with the hiring manager and one other team member), and I let the recruiter know afterward that I enjoyed the process. She responded and let me know there is one more interview, the fourth I’ve had for this position (the third if you throw out the recruiter screen/don’t count that). This is not for a management or executive role so I’m really hoping this is the last round and they don’t decide to throw in another step. I’m so tired of answering “tell me about yourself” and “how do you deal with multiple deadlines” and “what did you do with a challenging customer?” (I’m pretty sure the hiring manager asked that stuff or similar last week too.) 

I will do the interview if I advance and it is what it is since most employers have a similar amount of interviews these days but I am really getting sick of this process. If I don’t get this job I am calling it quits for the rest of the year and will hope for a better job market in 2024. I know I sound bitter or whatever but at this point I really don’t care about blowing off steam. I am positive and professional in interviews but every once in a while I just want to vent in a place where no one knows my real name or what I look like. Hiring has gotten out of control. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[theredhead77]

13 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Whoa, it’s weekly?  Is this a national thing so they can accommodate different time zones?  My husband’s company is here but the US office is on the west coast, so sometimes, he has to do meetings late (ie 5 pm or after, eastern time) so people there can do 2 pm.  I mean, a 1:30 pm here/10:30 there is probably most ideal (or 2 here, 11 there) but it’s also about who is most available.  And then sometimes, you need to accommodate other, international time zones.  Meetings with Asia are even worse. 

Nope. It's all the same time-zone. We have meetings with India and Australia that are late (last one ends at 6:30pm here) to accommodate their time-zones but this one is just someone who couldn't bother to find a better time.

It's not just this meeting though - people schedule last minute meetings that aren't urgent over lunch, or double book people all the time. It's sheer laziness in not leveraging Outlook features to find the next available time, or pinging people to see if they really are blocked out all day every day for a week (not out of the office, just blocked out).

Edited October 5, 2023 by theredhead77

[Cloud9Shopper]

Job hunting pet peeves: one-way video interviews. I never get selected to meet with an actual person after doing one of these things. I withdrew an application today after being asked to do one. Just have a phone screen for the first round! 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I have a final-round interview for the administrative job on Monday! I am excited but nervous because I know at this very last stage, it can come down to nitpicky things as to who gets the job and who doesn’t and I don’t know who the finalists are, of course, and how many they’re interviewing in the last round. I have been trying to really double down on my efforts with this job and have written thank you notes after every round, have a ring light for my computer and background blurred and all that small stuff. I just hope it all pays off…I cannot take losing another potential job at such a late stage in the game. Hopefully everything will go right.

I am starting to feel burnt out at Current Job and just requested a vacation day to hopefully alleviate that a bit. They like me and are giving me more responsibilities, which I appreciate, but I am ultimately still a customer service rep and that’s just not my goal/the extra work isn’t enough (for me, anyway) to cancel the interview and stay settled. Plus, things at my job have been very busy and we experienced some crises in the last couple months so a lot of overtime is being asked of us to fix things, and I have given OT where I can, but the truth is, I really don’t think I can give anymore right now and decided that for the time being I will work OT only where my boss orders it/makes it mandatory. (However, mandatory OT has only happened once since I’ve been here so at least there’s that.) If I don’t get this potential job, then hopefully I’ll be more willing to do OT after some rest. But I want to have a life outside of work too; I don’t want to sacrifice the rest of my life and my occasionally limited sanity for a call center position. 

 

[Bookish Jen]

Okay, I had my first week on the new job, and it went so well. I'm catching on much quicker than I thought I would. I thought training would last two weeks, but because I got the hang of it so quickly, I was able to work on my own yesterday. Of course, the co-worker who trained me was available if I had any questions.

And I really like my co-workers. Everyone (so far) is chill and has a sense of humor. I also get to work a half day on Fridays! Yay, me!

[EighteenTwelve]

I'm not prone to that anxiety dream about having to take an exam in a class you never knew existed, but this morning I more or less lived it.  My boss is a team lead for a $5M clinical research training grant, and she's traveling this week, so she sent me to the grant leadership Zoom meeting this morning.  Thank goodness I've been attending most of the training curriculum meetings as a sort of FYI-in-case-anyone-asks, because I had to present training curriculum status updates to the PI and the three other team leads, all of whom are seriously over my pay grade.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I am done job hunting for the year. Just got through a four-round interview process only to be rejected in the final two because the employer went with an internal candidate. And then to make it even worse they asked me if I’d be interested in a call center role that would be opening up. Yeah, sure, let me jump right into the very thing I need to get away from. That will make everything better. /s I did ask for feedback but there really was none or no mention of anything I did wrong. So I don’t even know what to improve on. 

I don’t know what to do except take some time to re-evaluate. I obviously have some fatal flaw that is keeping employers from hiring me or offering me decent positions. And I really really am not in the mood to hear “Don’t worry; you’ll get something soon!” Well obviously it’s not happening. I’ve now been rejected in the final stages three times so employers just do not seem to like me even though they are saying they do. And it seems like everyone who tells me not to worry about it has “found something” that pays them well and they enjoy or gives them growth potential. I am so tired of being the loser at family gatherings who only works in a call center while my family members have careers. I have been avoiding alumni gatherings for the leadership program I graduated from like the plague because I am a customer service rep while my classmates have good careers and did not experience layoffs. Why would I want to be around them? 

No one else seems to have this much trouble finding a job. Every friend or relative of mine, in real life or online, who has hit the job market recently has secured an offer or received a promotion. I see so many success stories in this thread and yet, I can’t get the same thing to happen for me. I come so close and yet someone else is always hired. I can’t take the rejection anymore or stay positive right now. I just wish I could understand why I am struggling with this so badly when it seems like the rest of the job hunting world can easily get offers and figure this whole thing out. 

[realityplease]

5 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

. .  I really really am not in the mood to hear “Don’t worry; you’ll get something soon!” Well obviously it’s not happening. I’ve now been rejected in the final stages three times so employers just do not seem to like me even though they are saying they do. And it seems like everyone who tells me not to worry about it has “found something” that pays them well and they enjoy or gives them growth potential. I am so tired of being the loser at family gatherings who only works in a call center while my family members have careers. I have been avoiding alumni gatherings for the leadership program I graduated from like the plague because I am a customer service rep while my classmates have good careers and did not experience layoffs. Why would I want to be around them?

I really don't know what type of job you're seeking or your qualifications for it or what you're doing vis-a-vis the needs of the employers that is affecting these outcomes. So all I can really say is that I'm really very sorry that you're going through this. 

The folks who tell you not to worry mean well & want to make you feel better - but at this point, what will make you feel better is landing a job you've sought!  It's akin to telling a single person who wants (but isn't finding) a serious relationship, "Don't worry. When you least expect it, you'll meet someone." When even with nonexistent expectations, no one turns up!  It's all platitudes. They haven't a clue or crystal ball - no one does - they're just trying to be soothing.  

But know this - you are NOT a loser because you "only" work in a call center & others have "careers."  Not only are you gainfully employed even if you feel it is beneath you - but you are you - special, talented & unique in your own particular ways - no matter your job title or what you do during the work day to earn a living. 

Work can be meaningful -but it's supposed to finance your life - not necessarily BE your life.  (Though some people make it so or get so attached to presenting a certain image that they can be, or feel they need to be, nothing else.)  So-called "careers" can engulf peoples' lives to the point of overtaking any work/life balance so that it's all work - and no life.  Many career people are miserable for a myriad of reasons.  The work doesn't fulfill them.  They're fulfilling someone else's dream, not their own. They have a title, but not satisfied doing the work.  They hate supervising or being supervised. They want to do something else. Their level of success doesn't match their effort.  They're imposters who can't really do the work they oversold others that they can do.  It goes on & on.  The grass is always greener syndrome.  If YOU think of yourself as lesser - instead of someone who has not yet arrived at that place you're aspiring to & taking longer than you hoped it would - than other people will think of you as lesser too. Why not? It's what you're leading them to believe.   

You are out there trying.  Bravo!  Keep doing that.  It's not easy. You've taken some blows, but will endure.  Instead of avoiding alumni gatherings, think of them as a networking opportunity. Let all there know what type of work you're seeking & be enthusiastic about it.  People are drawn to positivity.  It's a chance to sell yourself.  Maybe someone will know of an opening, have some insight into a place at which you're hoping to land.  If not or they're not receptive, screw it.  Move on to others who might be.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Rinse & repeat every opportunity you get.  Ask them how they got their jobs - learn from their success & importantly, what they did to succeed in landing the job they have that you now covet.  Thinking of what you imagine they think of you - whether family or alumni - who cares? First, they might not really think as poorly of you as you imagine. Second, that'll just lead you down a rabbit hole, waste your time & sap your energy.  No one appointed them to judge you.

Life is full of rejections - of all sorts. NOTHING is promised or guaranteed.  Attitude is everything.  You ARE gainfully employed. You get responses to your resumes.  You get callbacks. You make it to final rounds. That is NOT a loser.  That is someone who hasn't sealed the deal - YET.   Meanwhile, live your life with all the gusto you can. We're rooting for you!

[Cloud9Shopper]

I appreciate the sentiment but right now it’s very hard to be positive and go back out there guns blazing. It’s hard to hear how the hiring panel loved me, how I had such great experience in X, I’m the top choice and my reference checks went well…only to not be chosen in the end. And if I’m not picked there was obviously something wrong with my resume or my interview. But how did I get to the final round if I am so bad at interviews? 

When I was asked if I’d be interested in the call center role, it felt like an even bigger slap in the face. I was clear (but professional) throughout the process in saying that I did not want another call center job, and when she presented it to me as a “foot in the door,” it felt so tone deaf. It sounds like a great organization but I think I’m being reasonable to not want to take another frontline call center role to “break in.” I have experience in administrative and copy editing roles. I enjoy calendar management, putting together knowledge base/Intranet articles, running reports…I am sick of customer service and people trying to pigeonhole me to that. I have other skills and experience to bring to the table besides answering the phone. But it seems like every career change option available requires doing your time in customer service. 

I decided after I made my original post last night that the best thing to do right now is get away from job searching entirely and all the influencers looking to blame me for when I don’t get an offer. I closed my LinkedIn (it will be there for me to start a fresh profile when I feel ready, after all), threw out my job search notes, and logged out of Indeed. I clearly am not in the mindset for this anymore. The whole process just makes me feel worthless. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[realityplease]

Yes, it is hard to get up, dust yourself off & keep putting yourself out there. But what does shutting things down & going radio silent accomplish? Except provide an excuse to hide behind, & maybe a false sense of control, as in, I'm CHOOSING to hide out so no one will find me Because guess what - the results won't be a surprise - no one will find you! 

Why push the can many more months down the road. If you lack the fortitude to stick with your goal - doesn't that send a bad message to future employers who, let's face it, need to be convinced that YOU are the person they need - one with the ambition & focus that will push their business forward? After all, their goal is to find a dedicated & hardworking cog in their operation, or if needed, a business-promoter or getter.  If you can't push yourself toward your own goals and hide out for months at a time, what does that suggest about your ability or willingness to be the dedicated company person that they undoubtedly want. 

So why are you accepting the blame for not sealing the deal? I've been part of many interviewing sessions.  If the folks you last interviewed with wanted to "test you out" in a lesser position in order to let you get your foot in their door - and in fact, chose someone in house - that's your HUGE clue - they hired from within. Your resume/interview was irrelevant or of lesser importance or didn't outshine the person they already knew.  They wanted to see if they could find some better than the person they already had.  And ultimately went with someone tested & known - rather than take a chance on an unknown quantity.  Their decision & reasons - rather than your fault.

Unless it was a complete b.s. move on their part, it sounds as if they thought you were worthy enough to be part of their organization - but weren't ready to let you join at a higher level.  Sometimes you do have to take a flyer on a parallel position in order to get a foot in the door - & once there - wow them with your dedication & spirit - so they can see whether you're going to live up to your promises. I dunno - the new CEO of Costco started as a forklift operator or some such & gradually worked his way up. It happens. Instead of viewing the offer as an insult, maybe it was a huge opportunity.  You'll never know.

It's up to you.  You can continue to feel miserable and worthless. And give up. Or you can put this in perspective & soldier on or take chances. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I just do not want to work in another call center. I worked in one about eight years ago and worked my way out of it and was outside of call centers for six years. I was also a receptionist for nearly two years. I have other experience now besides answering a phone.

When is enough enough of proving yourself? I’m not accepting another customer service role elsewhere. 

[ginger90]

31 minutes ago, realityplease said:

If the folks you last interviewed with wanted to "test you out" in a lesser position in order to let you get your foot in their door

I have to agree with this. I can say my best supervisors over the years were those who had started at the “bottom” , in the trenches as some would call it. . The worst were those hired based on “book smart” attributes.

[Jaded]

On 10/20/2023 at 11:52 AM, realityplease said:

Yes, it is hard to get up, dust yourself off & keep putting yourself out there. But what does shutting things down & going radio silent accomplish? Except provide an excuse to hide behind, & maybe a false sense of control, as in, I'm CHOOSING to hide out so no one will find me Because guess what - the results won't be a surprise - no one will find you! 

@Cloud9Shopper sounds like she's mentally and emotionally exhausted at this point. Setting things down and taking a break until the holidays are over would give her time to regroup, refocus and as she mentioned for her Linkedin profile to start fresh. She's "gainfully employed" so it wouldn't be like she'd be going unpaid while taking a hiatus in regards to job hunting.  I get trying to be encouraging at the same time people know their limits and what happens if they push themselves too far. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Jaded

[realityplease]

52 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I just do not want to work in another call center. I worked in one about eight years ago and worked my way out of it and was outside of call centers for six years. I was also a receptionist for nearly two years. I have other experience now besides answering a phone.

When is enough enough of proving yourself? I’m not accepting another customer service role elsewhere. 

To answer, "When is enough enough of proving yourself?" It's a harsh fact of life that when you work for others:  Never.  Few can coast for long. Maybe it stops when you retire, or win the lottery, or gain the means, skills, interests or independence to own your own business & call your own shots - but even then you'll still need to prove yourself to your consumers or clients. Those options don't seem to be in the cards for you in the near future. All the cards are still in the hands of those to whom you need prove yourself. 

Very understandably, you dislike being judged by others - to prove yourself to family, alumni, employers.  And you don't have to.  But being judgmental of others is what people do - whether you want them to or not.  And seeing a way forward is hard.  One can, if they choose, wallow in despair, bemoan a lack of options, blame others or themselves.  It's hard & sometimes overwhelming to envision & get oneself out of a rut.  Hard to steel yourself to keep going.  But what's the alternative? More months of dissatisfaction - prolonged by stopping all effort.      

I get that you may feel emotionally & mentally drained now. Anyone would. It's stressful trying to guess which door hides the prize.  Whether to stay or to go. Dealing with choices imposed by others on you rather than made by you. But in a lifetime, many are the hurdles, tragedies, surprises or unwanted situations that come up & will need to be dealt with. Compromises made. Situations to swallow.  Hiding out in a dead end job, ending all job search & networking efforts, taking no chances, is not going to move the needle. It only moves the calendar forward for more months.  And you'll be just as dissatisfied in January as you are now.  But it's certainly your choice & based on what you feel is right or helpful for you to do.  Hopefully, new opportunities will be there for you in the New Year and you'll be refreshed & ready to start anew then.

[Browncoat]

10 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

And if I’m not picked there was obviously something wrong with my resume or my interview.

Not necessarily.  I've held interviews where it has come down to two candidates, and I had to be really nit-picky -- not quite to the point of flipping a coin, but close.  And, all other things being equal, I would go with an internal hire simply because they're already in the system.  So, yes, taking a lower level job with a company you'd like to work for can be a leg up on the future competition.