A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[Dimity]

14 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

At the end of my job search I cringed at interview advice that still said to send a thank you note! 

 I don't remember ever getting a thank you note because I interviewed someone.  I don't think that would have made any difference to me in making a decision about who to hire.  I admit, if anything, it might have put me off!  I wasn't in HR though, perhaps this is something that is expected by those at that level of the hiring process.  

[EtheltoTillie]

FWIW, @Cloud9Shopper, I have a feeling they keep you on the phones because you’re good at it. 

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, Dimity said:

I don't remember ever getting a thank you note because I interviewed someone.  I don't think that would have made any difference to me in making a decision about who to hire.  I admit, if anything, it might have put me off!  I wasn't in HR though, perhaps this is something that is expected by those at that level of the hiring process.

I used to get them from about half of interviewed applicants, but the percentage has dropped.  It's not a deal-breaker by a mile, but if somehow everything else was equal between two candidates, and one wrote a note and one didn't, I'd go with the one who did.

[Cloud9Shopper]

22 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

FWIW, @Cloud9Shopper, I have a feeling they keep you on the phones because you’re good at it. 

Makes me wonder if I need to be intentionally bad at phones or something to get away from calls. 🤣

I saw a letter on Ask a Manager a year or two ago about this. The letter writer had been pigeonholed into admin work so it wasn’t quite the same as my situation but she had other career goals like I do and was frustrated and wondering how to get out of that trap. I may go re-read that letter and see if I can find some guidance for my own situation.

@Bastet Yes your comment was what I was referring to when I talked about how thank you notes can help. 

[emma675]

56 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I used to get them from about half of interviewed applicants, but the percentage has dropped.  It's not a deal-breaker by a mile, but if somehow everything else was equal between two candidates, and one wrote a note and one didn't, I'd go with the one who did.

I'm quoting you right and left today, @Bastet, haha! 

But I'm someone who once got a job over another candidate because I wrote a thank you email. My manager mentioned it about a year after I had started, but essentially the other candidate and I had almost exactly the same skills and background. But I wrote a thank you email to everyone on the team who had interviewed me, personalized to each person/conversation, and that pushed me ahead of the other person who didn't. So I always send one after every interview now, just in case. It takes about 5 minutes and it actually did make a difference for me.

[Moose135]

I think it's just polite and professional (and it only takes 2 minutes) to send an e-mail thanking someone for their time after an interview.

Edited June 7 by Moose135

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 6/6/2024 at 5:10 PM, emma675 said:

But I wrote a thank you email to everyone on the team who had interviewed me, personalized to each person/conversation, and that pushed me ahead of the other person who didn't. So I always send one after every interview now, just in case. It takes about 5 minutes and it actually did make a difference for me.

 

On 6/7/2024 at 10:35 AM, Moose135 said:

I think it's just polite and professional (and it only takes 2 minutes) to send an e-mail thanking someone for their time after an interview.

I also did this after every interview-thanking whoever I met in an email (if they provided me with their card) and for my current job, I hand wrote a thank you note to each person I interviewed with.

I don't know if it made the difference, but one of the attorneys I interviewed with (and who I have come to have a great working relationship with) told me later he pushed for hiring me after our interview. I had three rounds with two attorneys each.  He was one of six I had interviewed with, not including the head of the group, the paralegal director, and one of the paralegal managers.

I had been job searching for nearly three years when I landed this job. In between, I took whatever contract/temp work I could get. 16 months before I got my present job, I started a temp job that was supposed to be only two weeks-just entering data-mindless work. That turned into a year contract job-where my responsibilities increased and I reported to the general counsel. I was seriously thinking about maybe changing careers again-since none of my interviews were bearing fruit and I was constantly filling out applications, drafting cover letters, the whole gamut-but there was a new board of directors change and the new head honcho brought her own assistant, so the job ended. The ironic thing is the supposed most excellent and bestest assistant didn't know jack squat and was constantly emailing me after I left. I just directed her back to her boss and the other executive administrator. My motto was: you need me still? Then pay me. I'm not doing your work for free.

I'm still in touch with a couple of attorneys that I got to know and became friends with there.

 

Edited June 8 by GHScorpiosRule

[Yeah No]

On 6/6/2024 at 4:23 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Makes me wonder if I need to be intentionally bad at phones or something to get away from calls. 🤣

I saw a letter on Ask a Manager a year or two ago about this. The letter writer had been pigeonholed into admin work so it wasn’t quite the same as my situation but she had other career goals like I do and was frustrated and wondering how to get out of that trap. I may go re-read that letter and see if I can find some guidance for my own situation.

@Bastet Yes your comment was what I was referring to when I talked about how thank you notes can help. 

I could have been that letter writer and it happened to me more than once.  When I worked in admissions at my university the director told me as he was leaving the job (which was of course after I had already turned in my resignation for a job in counseling at another college) that the reason he never promoted me is because

1. I reminded him too much of his sister (which was not a good thing in his case) and
    
2. I was too good at my job and there was no one else he could rely on to do it. 

Well, gee thanks, asshole!  And yes, he was one of the worst flaming assholes I ever worked for.  After I left they had to split my job into two positions.  By the end of my time there it had gotten ridiculous.  Whenever anyone in the entire office had a question, they came to me.  I knew more than the professional staff.  The only reason I stayed there so long was to get free tuition for my graduate degree.

[KittyMom4]

 

After I left they had to split my job into two positions.

I worked as an admin assistant for almost 30 years, decided last summer I was burned out, tired of the 24/7 emails and phone calls, travel plans and scheduling snafus at the last minute, working on my vacations and dreading Monday mornings. I talked to my boss (who was lovely about it) and asked to move to a new position. It took several months to find a replacement, but I finally got out. Six weeks later one of my former coworkers told me my replacement got a raise and was allowed to hand off a big part of the job that stressed me out so much. I just shook my head, still glad I got out but kinda pissed I had to go through it for so long only to have the new person point that it was too much.  

[partofme]

On 6/4/2024 at 6:56 PM, isalicat said:

Interesting news segment I saw yesterday on TV that had a professional recruiter talking about how the only way to actually get hired for a job these days is through an internal, personal referral. Why? Because every job opening that is posted gets thousands (yes, thousands!) of applicant resumes and generally a bot is vetting those resumes, not a person, so if you don't have the right "key words" for the bot, you don't get an interview. And if you do get an interview, someone with a recommendation from someone who already works at the hiring company is generally always going to be much more highly preferred. So a lot of interviewing is pro forma, just to justify going ahead with the recommended person, not to seriously consider other candidates. The recruiter's strong advice was to find someone at a company for which you wish to work and get them to refer you to the hiring HR or manager person or your odds suck, even if you have all the right experience and qualifications.

I was recently referred for an open position by an internal employee working at the company.   I thought the phone screen went well but I ended up not even getting an interview.  I don’t know where it went wrong, if the phone screen didn’t go well, but I know I didn’t mess up, or if the hiring manager just didn’t like my resume.  But either way the internal reference sadly didn’t help.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 hours ago, partofme said:

I was recently referred for an open position by an internal employee working at the company.   I thought the phone screen went well but I ended up not even getting an interview.  I don’t know where it went wrong, if the phone screen didn’t go well, but I know I didn’t mess up, or if the hiring manager just didn’t like my resume.  But either way the internal reference sadly didn’t help.  

Same thing here a few months ago. Got a referral and the recruiter mentioned how she’d heard such good things about me. I did make it to the hiring panel but still lost out to someone else. 

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, KittyMom4 said:

I worked as an admin assistant for almost 30 years, decided last summer I was burned out, tired of the 24/7 emails and phone calls, travel plans and scheduling snafus at the last minute, working on my vacations and dreading Monday mornings. I talked to my boss (who was lovely about it) and asked to move to a new position. It took several months to find a replacement, but I finally got out. Six weeks later one of my former coworkers told me my replacement got a raise and was allowed to hand off a big part of the job that stressed me out so much. I just shook my head, still glad I got out but kinda pissed I had to go through it for so long only to have the new person point that it was too much.  

Oh man, I got PTSD just reading your post, it sounds so much like my experience.  It was a high stress job especially at the higher levels in big companies.

I left my last job because I broke my arm at work and was on workers' comp.  The company was sneakily trying to get rid of anyone over 55 and thought they had an excuse to let me go even though my boss had given me excellent reviews.  Well, I slapped them with a lawsuit because it's against the law to terminate someone while they're collecting workers' comp.  So they ended up supporting me for 2 years at almost full salary on that, then I went on Unemployment Insurance, then we had the pandemic and I got all of that extra pandemic money.  Then I won the lawsuit! 

I found out from people still at the company that they had replaced me with a much younger temp. who also checked off boxes they wanted to fill in other respects.  They ended up hiring her and then laying her off after a year.  The consensus was that she couldn't keep up with the work.  My friend sent me the link to her public Facebook page and I saw her bitching about it there along with dozens of selfies of her making cute faces, LOL.  Then they went back to a revolving door of temps.  I found out that my boss left his position about a year after that.  He was "kicked upstairs".  I have no idea what happened after that because by then all my contacts had either been laid off or left the company.

[KittyMom4]

@Yeah No, funny you mention the younger replacement, mine was also younger (which makes sense because they want someone there for the long haul), but the fact that she couldn't handle the work after only a few weeks, work that I had been doing for 30 years, kinda made me shake my head. I hold no ill will, there's other parts of the job that make it hell on most days that she still has to deal with so I wish her nothing but the best. 

Downside of my new job: I work with people my children's ages (25-35ish). They are great but I feel apart from them due to the age gap. It's a bit clique-y too, they are pleasant to me but I do sense the divide. I just do my job and go home. I have friends that enjoy my company. It does make the workday kinda boring though, no one to share a joke with. Eh, I get paid. 

[Browncoat]

Oh my god, I'm an idiot.  I waited all day at work for an e-mail with instructions to do a particular task, but it did not come before I left for the day.  It had to be done today or tomorrow, and I'm off tomorrow and Friday.  I checked my e-mail when I got home, and of course, there it was -- it came about 30 minutes after I left.  But, yay!  I brought home all the data I needed to complete the task!  But, boo!  The task requires a three-part log in, and I could only remember two parts -- the third part was written down on a notepad on my desk.  I got very close with my guesses, but no dice, and I was afraid I'd be locked out, so I ended up driving back to work to get it.  45 minutes each way.  I'm so mad at myself!  Wasted time, wasted gas, but at least it's done.  

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, KittyMom4 said:

Downside of my new job: I work with people my children's ages (25-35ish). They are great but I feel apart from them due to the age gap. It's a bit clique-y too, they are pleasant to me but I do sense the divide. I just do my job and go home. I have friends that enjoy my company. It does make the workday kinda boring though, no one to share a joke with. Eh, I get paid. 

That sounds a lot like the situation I was in as my department was made up of mostly people in that age bracket.  I never really felt the age gap divide until the last few years I worked.  It bothered me at the end because I felt like I was being seen as a "mom" figure.  I never had kids and always kept a youthful outlook and current wardrobe so feeling looked at that way was not comfortable for me.  Once when coordinating a department-wide meeting my new boss (the last one I had who was maybe about 15 years younger than me) introduced me to the group as "the department den mom".  I  know he meant well but it still bothered me I must admit.

I was lucky to have made a good friend at that job.  We are still friends to this day although both retired.  We would often let off steam about our jobs to each other.  One of the male directors in my department who was also over 55 would do that with me too.  He had reason to believe that he was going to be terminated because the company was systematically finding excuses to get rid of anyone over 55.  It happened to me first.  It happened to him about a year later.  My female friend somehow escaped being terminated but only because it was well known that she was intending to retire in the next couple of years anyway.  

[EtheltoTillie]

Den mom—that is just awful. 

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Den mom—that is just awful. 

Thanks, it was.  And I kept my mouth shut about it because he was a new boss at the time.  He was generally good to me and gave me 2 excellent reviews but I only worked for him for 8 months before I fell in the parking lot, broke my arm, ended up on workers' comp. and then was terminated by HR while still collecting.  It's amazing how winning that lawsuit has helped me make my peace with everything that happened to me there.

[KittyMom4]

Feeling left out aside, I really like the work I do in my new position. After working in a position that was 90% flying by the seat of my pants, this position has a much steadier pace and I know what to expect every day when I come in. It's refreshing. I've made friends with other people my age here, not like my old coworkers but enough to not make me feel completely alone.

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It's amazing how winning that lawsuit has helped me make my peace with everything that happened to me there

Good for you, it's horrible how you were treated, I can't believe companies still get away with that crap. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

A cross between work and pet peeves at my grocery store job. 

-People who show up at 10 minutes to my line closing with two carts full of stuff and then do nothing to help me bag while they stand there and talk about how much it’s going to be. I’m pretty sure these same people did this last week too. They bought almost 100 items! 

-My store closes at 9 so my register line closes at 8:50. Tonight it was 8:55, I pulled my drawer and the light was out and I was cleaning down the register. Someone comes over and goes “are you open?” Well Janet I don’t know. Take your best guess here! After they gave me the clearance to turn my light off and I did, people kept coming over! (Our rule is that you take anyone who was in your line when the light turned off but no one after that.) 

I told the closing manager I hated turning so many people away after the light was off but that I’d never get out of there otherwise. Fortunately she agreed with me and there was no trouble. I’m glad that I work somewhere where they do respect my time and are good at about getting me out the door on schedule…I’d be gone if it were one of those places where they make you stay forever even after closing. (Anyone who is checking out in the last 10 minutes of business has to go to self checkout.)

[Wiendish Fitch]

I'm still looking for full time work, still waffling on whether or not to go back to college for my bachelor's.

I need an honest opinion: at 42, am I too old to get full time work? Am I just kidding myself? Should I just throw in the towel and accept my lot in life, or is there hope? I'm scared to give up, but I also don't want to be on a fool's errand.

[Spartan Girl]

@Wiendish Fitch if you have the stamina to go back to college then age shouldn’t matter. I remember seeing a lot of older people in my college classes.

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I need an honest opinion: at 42, am I too old to get full time work?

No. I went through a period in my late 30s-late 40s, struggling, and landed my current job when I was 48. I will be celebrating six years at my firm in August.

[Yeah No]

21 hours ago, KittyMom4 said:

Feeling left out aside, I really like the work I do in my new position. After working in a position that was 90% flying by the seat of my pants, this position has a much steadier pace and I know what to expect every day when I come in. It's refreshing. I've made friends with other people my age here, not like my old coworkers but enough to not make me feel completely alone.

Good for you, it's horrible how you were treated, I can't believe companies still get away with that crap. 

Good for you too, it's refreshing to hear that about your new job!

Yeah, it really bugged me especially after the law firm that represented me (which was a great firm, BTW) told me it would be easier to pursue wrongful termination and abuse of workers' comp. than an age discrimination case.  They told me they are hard to win despite the fact that it was well known based on many examples.  I've read articles about how certain other big companies have been found doing this but I don't know what if anything was done about it.

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm still looking for full time work, still waffling on whether or not to go back to college for my bachelor's.

I need an honest opinion: at 42, am I too old to get full time work? Am I just kidding myself? Should I just throw in the towel and accept my lot in life, or is there hope? I'm scared to give up, but I also don't want to be on a fool's errand.

What kind of work are you looking for?  It might depend on the field as to how bad the age discrimination is and how much a college degree might help.  I got jobs at 42 and 52 - the best two jobs I ever had (in spite of being terminated by the last one under suspicion of age discrimination, although I was 58 by that time).  

[supposebly]

My plan is to go back to school when I'm retired. I got my dream job at 49. 

[EtheltoTillie]

15 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm still looking for full time work, still waffling on whether or not to go back to college for my bachelor's.

I need an honest opinion: at 42, am I too old to get full time work? Am I just kidding myself? Should I just throw in the towel and accept my lot in life, or is there hope? I'm scared to give up, but I also don't want to be on a fool's errand.

You are asking two separate questions.  Are you too old to get full time work?  Not in and of itself.  Should you pursue a degree?  Depends on what you are looking for.  Don't throw in the towel, but choose wisely.  Don't take on a lot of debt. 

[partofme]

20 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

need an honest opinion: at 42, am I too old to get full time work? Am I just kidding

I hope you’re not too old to get a job.  I’m older than you and I’ve been out of work since February.   I’m a single girl so unless I win the lottery or can find myself a rich husband I need to be able to find a job.  

Edited June 15 by partofme

[Cloud9Shopper]

I’ll be 39 this weekend and this conversation is making me a mixture of both optimistic and terrified lol. 

[BlueSkies]

This conversation reminds me a little of this movie below.  One of the few movies from the past 10 years I enjoyed.   It was far from a perfect film to me but highlighted a very real problem in our society that doesn't get enough attention...  People being underemployed because they didn't go to the right school (or at all), study the right stuff, etc.....   when they are more than qualified 

 

 

[isalicat]

Well, I'm 68 and just got offered yet another job (I already have two part time jobs so this will be another, very part time job) so I guess retirement will be further on hold...but its letting me delay taking my full Social Security for another couple of years which is a good thing. I'm also on three non-profit boards and work at a food pantry two afternoons a week so I'm just as busy every day as I ever was when I was working full time. Its a good thing for me...I can't sit around or I get into trouble 😸

[Cloud9Shopper]

Well I have an issue with my part time job now possibly interfering with my full time job. I wasn’t expecting this, but here we are.

I called my boss at the grocery store today because I wanted to clarify something on my schedule for this week. I misread and thought she had me on at a time when I told her I wasn’t available. She said she didn’t (OK fine; I apologized as such for misunderstanding) but then said oh she forgot to tell me but all new employees have to go to this once monthly (or maybe quarterly? I can’t remember how often she said it is) orientation at corporate headquarters for new employees just to go over company policies, etc. OK, again fine, but she wants me to go up Friday morning! She knows I work full time but I guess that’s when corporate is having the next orientation. I did explain to her you know I work and that I may not even be able to get Friday off my full time job. 

I’m so discouraged now. I know my boss doesn’t make this rule or set this schedule but like…what about the job that pays the vast majority of my income? For some reason too the corporate grocery HQ holds orientation on Fridays in the summer and Saturdays in the fall? Yeah I don’t get it either. I really don’t think I would have taken this job if I’d known they would schedule me for a weekday morning mandatory orientation and expect me to take time off from my regular job. I appreciate the extra money but come on! I don’t think it’s fair to push me into taking time off from my regular job to do this. (My friend was telling me how she had a similar situation with a part time job in the past too…they’d want her to show up for shifts that would require her leaving her full time job early to do so.) 

Edited June 16 by Cloud9Shopper

[isalicat]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I appreciate the extra money but come on! I don’t think it’s fair to push me into taking time off from my regular job

Circle back around and find out if it is possible to do the orientation remotely. What did they do during Covid? (I bet they have this somehow on video or can create a streaming link for you if it is only a matter of a couple of hours.) Make it sound like it would be the best thing for them to either do the training remotely or let you wait until you can go on a Saturday in a few months because you are going to be a great asset and a long time part time employee, yadda yadda...

Good luck!

[Cloud9Shopper]

Feeling jealous of an old coworker today. He got a great new job because someone he knows sent him a random text and told him about the job opening, and he was introduced to the team and had an offer within a couple of days.

I’m just jealous because this kind of thing doesn’t happen to me. No one reaches out to me to say they are thinking of me and heard about a great opening and can get me fast tracked through with an offer in days. And honestly? It just goes to show that working hard doesn’t matter anymore. Only who you know makes a difference. I guess I’m just not supposed to have a better job or don’t deserve one because I don’t have any friends who just randomly hook me up with a job and give me a lucky break.

Maybe I should just give up on the job search. Today is my birthday and yet again I’m depressed about my career and lack of success in life while others are doing incredibly and getting everything handed to them. I don’t even want to try anymore. Applying doesn’t work like it used to, apparently. I’m still in this stupid call center job while others are thriving and I can barely get a call back. I’m on yet another version of my resume hoping for success but without connections I’m not counting on it. 

Oh and I’ll be 40 next year which will make me completely unhireable. I can’t wait! /s 

Originally (like a few months ago) I promised myself if I didn’t have an offer by the end of this month, which makes a year and a half since my layoff, I’d change fields. I’m at the point now where I don’t even see what that will do…I tie my worth to my job and I feel worthless and like trash saying I’m a customer service rep compared to my friends with better titles and careers. 

Edited June 16 by Cloud9Shopper

[partofme]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Feeling jealous of an old coworker today. He got a great new job because someone he knows sent him a random text and told him about the job opening, and he was introduced to the team and had an offer within a couple of days.

I’m just jealous because this kind of thing doesn’t happen to me. No one reaches out to me to say they are thinking of me and heard about a great opening and can get me fast tracked through with an offer in days. And honestly? It just goes to show that working hard doesn’t matter anymore. Only who you know makes a difference. I guess I’m just not supposed to have a better job or don’t deserve one because I don’t have any friends who just randomly hook me up with a job and give me a lucky break.

Maybe I should just give up on the job search. Today is my birthday and yet again I’m depressed about my career and lack of success in life while others are doing incredibly and getting everything handed to them. I don’t even want to try anymore. Applying doesn’t work like it used to, apparently. I’m still in this stupid call center job while others are thriving and I can barely get a call back. I’m on yet another version of my resume hoping for success but without connections I’m not counting on it. 

Oh and I’ll be 40 next year which will make me completely unhireable. I can’t wait! /s 

Originally (like a few months ago) I promised myself if I didn’t have an offer by the end of this month, which makes a year and a half since my layoff, I’d change fields. I’m at the point now where I don’t even see what that will do…I tie my worth to my job and I feel worthless and like trash saying I’m a customer service rep compared to my friends with better titles and careers. 

Happy birthday!    🎈 

Those kind of people with that kind of luck suck.  I try to not think that way but life is unfair and some people are lucky.  I don’t know how to make it better.   Hopefully things will turn around soon and you’ll get a new job that you like better and I’ll get a job period since I’ve been out of work since my layoff in February. 

[isalicat]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I tie my worth to my job and I feel worthless and like trash saying I’m a customer service rep compared to my friends with better titles and careers. 

So sorry to hear this...I know you are frustrated (understandably so) but its your birthday! Celebrate that you are a unique, wonderful creation with many gifts and talents and just 'cause you don't get to use them on the job doesn't mean you are either "worthless" or "trash" in any way, shape or form. I know I sound like a broken record here, but you gotta find fulfillment elsewhere if your job is not providing it, then your overall attitude towards yourself will improve so much that all the other pieces will fall into place - bet on it!

[Cloud9Shopper]

I appreciate the kind words. But I just want to be like my friends and some of my family. I want to have a comfortable salary, great career with a nice title, own a home, just want to feel like I’m on a trajectory I’m proud of. My friends don’t have to work second jobs at grocery stores for extra money. They have plenty. I mostly just want to feel as if I’m on their level, and I’m sick of having to work some weekends and second shift and being in a role with limited flexibility.

I’m really scared this isn’t going to get better. I have tried to be positive for so long and believe I’m employable and someone else will hire me, but now that I’m experiencing silence/not getting interviews and keep hearing “we picked somebody else” with no feedback as to why (I went through four rounds of interviews with a job, and when I asked for feedback the recruiter didn’t respond) or because “well we really liked you but we went in another direction.”… there’s only so many times I can take being kicked down and rejected, and now I’m slowly losing hope and optimism. I want to be the chosen and celebrated one for a change that’s all. 

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I appreciate the kind words. But I just want to be like my friends and some of my family. I want to have a comfortable salary, great career with a nice title, own a home, just want to feel like I’m on a trajectory I’m proud of. My friends don’t have to work second jobs at grocery stores for extra money. They have plenty. I mostly just want to feel as if I’m on their level, and I’m sick of having to work some weekends and second shift and being in a role with limited flexibility.

I’m really scared this isn’t going to get better. I have tried to be positive for so long and believe I’m employable and someone else will hire me, but now that I’m experiencing silence/not getting interviews and keep hearing “we picked somebody else” with no feedback as to why (I went through four rounds of interviews with a job, and when I asked for feedback the recruiter didn’t respond) or because “well we really liked you but we went in another direction.”… there’s only so many times I can take being kicked down and rejected, and now I’m slowly losing hope and optimism. I want to be the chosen and celebrated one for a change that’s all. 

I really feel your pain, Cloud9....

Just one word of advice from experience (and I hesitate to give unasked for advice but feel I need to say this) - Once I got to this point (and you know I've been there a few times) the best thing to do was to take a step back and a bit of a breather from the job search. When we get to this point we're not in the right head space to put our best foot forward in interviews anyway. And that's no reflection on us - anyone would be disgusted and down on themselves after constant effort and rejection. I know the name of that tune all too well.  

The only reason I gave up my most recent job search is because I was able to make other plans but if not I was at the same point as you now and would have taken a break for a while. The other two times I was in that situation and took a break somehow it was what I needed to gain perspective and find a new way to approach the situation. And in both cases that was what worked. I won't lie, it still took some time to find a job but it did happen, and I don't think it would have if I didn't take that break. 

I think with anything that we pursue, even in other areas of life, taking a mental break from something that is only bringing you down is beneficial in the long run. You just have to keep telling yourself you're not giving up, you're just taking some time off for a while. And by time off I mean try not to even think about looking for a job for at least a month, maybe more. You'll know when you're ready to dive back in, but you can't pressure yourself to be ready before you're ready.

One time I took a break was when my father needed open heart surgery.  I didn't have a choice but to take it as he needed my help. When I got back out there again I felt much more positive and was able to pursue my job hunt with a better attitude. Somehow the time in between with my mind on other things made all that previous rejection feel less hurtful and I was no longer seeing it as any kind of judgment on me or how much I "deserved" a job. And because of that I was able to pursue the job hunt with more energy and optimism, which only helped me get a job in the long run.

The constant rejection is not a sign of how much you're worth or how much you deserve a job.  You deserve a job just as much as any of those people you're seeing getting one. It's the result of having to deal with a broken system and just not having good luck. I know it's hard to feel that way now but after maybe a month or two you'll snap out of that headspace and stop feeling like it's somehow your fault and so down about yourself. And that can only help you find a job! After a while being in a down headspace makes us more self-defeating and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. So my advice is try to enjoy the warm weather, go out, take a mental and physical break from everything for a while - even a vacation. In my experience it does wonders. Again, apologies about going all advice-y but I feel for you and wanted to share what worked for me when in a very similar situation.

Edited June 17 by Yeah No

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I really feel your pain, Cloud9....

Just one word of advice from experience (and I hesitate to give unasked for advice but feel I need to say this) - Once I got to this point (and you know I've been there a few times) the best thing to do was to take a step back and a bit of a breather from the job search. When we get to this point we're not in the right head space to put our best foot forward in interviews anyway. And that's no reflection on us - anyone would be disgusted and down on themselves after constant effort and rejection. I know the name of that tune all too well.  

The only reason I gave up my most recent job search is because I was able to make other plans but if not I was at the same point as you now and would have taken a break for a while. The other two times I was in that situation and took a break somehow it was what I needed to gain perspective and find a new way to approach the situation. And in both cases that was what worked. I won't lie, it still took some time to find a job but it did happen, and I don't think it would have if I didn't take that break. 

I think with anything that we pursue, even in other areas of life, taking a mental break from something that is only bringing you down is beneficial in the long run. You just have to keep telling yourself you're not giving up, you're just taking some time off for a while. And by time off I mean try not to even think about looking for a job for at least a month, maybe more. You'll know when you're ready to dive back in, but you can't pressure yourself to be ready before you're ready.

One time I took a break was when my father needed open heart surgery.  I didn't have a choice but to take it as he needed my help. When I got back out there again I felt much more positive and was able to pursue my job hunt with a better attitude. Somehow the time in between with my mind on other things made all that previous rejection feel less hurtful and I was no longer seeing it as any kind of judgment on me or how much I "deserved" a job. And because of that I was able to pursue the job hunt with more energy and optimism, which only helped me get a job in the long run.

The constant rejection is not a sign of how much you're worth or how much you deserve a job.  You deserve a job just as much as any of those people you're seeing getting one. It's the result of having to deal with a broken system and just not having good luck. I know it's hard to feel that way now but after maybe a month or two you'll snap out of that headspace and stop feeling like it's somehow your fault and so down about yourself. And that can only help you find a job! After a while being in a down headspace makes us more self-defeating and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. So my advice is try to enjoy the warm weather, go out, take a mental and physical break from everything for a while - even a vacation. In my experience it does wonders. Again, apologies about going all advice-y but I feel for you and wanted to share what worked for me when in a very similar situation.

I think the problem for me is that it’s hard not to see rejection as a measure of what I’m worth or deserve in terms of a job. I feel like the good candidates can get hired easily, and my struggles = I’m not a very strong or desirable candidate if I make it to multiple final rounds, or even reference checks, and still don’t come out on top. (I’ve confirmed that I have good references, or so my references claim they have positive conversations with hiring managers.) This is the first time in my career I’ve been through things like having my references called without an offer on the table. I’ve also never been through such grueling and stressful interview processes where you need to meet half a department to get hired. (Before this market, I did once work at a law firm where I was informally introduced to some staff during my interview but those staffers didn’t sit in for the interview or others or have a say in my hiring.) I feel like if I were a truly worthy and strong candidate someone would have made me an offer by now. I guess that’s why I can’t shake it. 

[Yeah No]

10 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I think the problem for me is that it’s hard not to see rejection as a measure of what I’m worth or deserve in terms of a job. I feel like the good candidates can get hired easily, and my struggles = I’m not a very strong or desirable candidate if I make it to multiple final rounds, or even reference checks, and still don’t come out on top. (I’ve confirmed that I have good references, or so my references claim they have positive conversations with hiring managers.) This is the first time in my career I’ve been through things like having my references called without an offer on the table. I’ve also never been through such grueling and stressful interview processes where you need to meet half a department to get hired. (Before this market, I did once work at a law firm where I was informally introduced to some staff during my interview but those staffers didn’t sit in for the interview or others or have a say in my hiring.) I feel like if I were a truly worthy and strong candidate someone would have made me an offer by now. I guess that’s why I can’t shake it. 

I think it's natural to feel that way, especially for women. Maybe it's because of the way we're socialized, I don't know, but I know it's more common for women to take such rejection as a measure of their relative worth than it is for men. It does get me upset to think of it that way because it is only another way we women limit ourselves and hold ourselves back unnecessarily.  

I hear you, though. I think maybe in your case what's happening is not only is it a different and in some ways more difficult job market right now, but you're interviewing on levels and in companies that are more likely to utilize more lengthy and stringent hiring practices - That was the case for me for the last decade of my career and it was no wonder considering the companies and the job levels involved. I used to joke that I was being scrutinized and interviewed more times than the Pope did before I got a job!  I chalked it up to the way things have changed, though, but after being rejected umpteen times I did start to question my worth. The thing is that it's not a judgment on our worth.  It's hard not to see it that way and I get that.  The alternative is to get angry and cynical at the world, which I have also done, but neither attitude is the best for getting a job, unfortunately, and which is why I'm recommending the breather because that will help give you perspective on the situation and not be so inclined to blame yourself or others.

I even improved my outlook by praying on it for a while the last time I was in this situation. Then that long lost college friend came out of the woodwork to get me help from his agency person. It was really bizarre and out of the blue, too. I still sometimes wonder about the power of prayer in that situation. Ironically, he and I were both up for the Theology award in our year at our university and he won it even though I technically had the higher GPA (straight As).  Being that this was the 1970s and it was very sexist at our Jesuit university he got the award. I think he still felt guilty about that and that's what prompted him to help me. So you never know what's around the corner and where your big break will come from!

Also, there is always more competition as you go up the ladder as in more people applying for fewer positions. Less desirable positions are easier to get for anyone.  But still, all that is the fault of the situation, not your fault. You are still worth as much as you are, it's just tougher for any number of reasons not related to your worth.

You also can't get too in your own head and make assumptions that you're destined to be "always a bridesmaid but never a bride" to borrow a phrase.  That's the self defeating stuff I was talking about. You will be a "bride" one day but you can't lose hope that it will happen. It will, just in its own time, unfortunately. And usually it happens when you have that positive glow about you that comes with feeling good about yourself and have hope for your future, which right now you have less of, unfortunately. I don't blame you one bit for being there, I just think taking a breather would help you in more ways than you may think right now.

[Bookish Jen]

Well, we hired a new boss, and I really like her. Interestingly enough, she works remotely in another state so we meet via MS Teams. However, she does fly in every six or so weeks to check in on us. She's coming in next week. She mentioned I'm still in the running to be hired on permanently, but a lot depends on the company and the market, especially during an election year.

However, we are down by two people. One of them just had a baby, and she's going to be on maternity leave for most of the summer. She is coming back, and I'm glad because I really like her. She's a great coworker.

And then the other temp that we used to replace the temp that got drunk on the job was let go. It wasn't due to any cost cutting measures. They're going to bring on a new temp. We weren't given any reasons why she was let go, but I have my suspicions. For one thing, she was quite openly bigoted. She talked smack about the LGBTQ community (to me at least), and our company is a total ally of anyone in that community. She also talked a bit disparagingly about the company. No company is perfect, but so far, I've been very pleased with how I'm treated. Plus, she was very gossipy. She was often away from her desk for long periods of time chatting with other employees. Now, I believe in being cordial with my colleagues, but I also know I have to be doing my work. There was something about her I just didn't trust, so I'm not shedding any tears that she's gone.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I think my mom was right, in a way, about the second job and not working too much. I got scheduled outside my availability for tomorrow (someone told me that the boss sometimes “forgets” when you’re available) and I’m annoyed that I have to be at the grocery store at 7:30 am even though I told my boss I can’t work until Sunday afternoons.

I did leave her a note to remind her, but yeah, needless to say I no longer care if I want or need a weekend off every so often. If she’s going to “forget” my availability then I’m going to play hardball. I guess my mom was right to not push myself too hard at this job. Honestly part of me was thinking of just shutting my alarm off for tomorrow and pulling a no call no show but I think I’ll just get up as late as possible and if I’m a little late to work, oh well. 

I’m just exhausted though. I worked all day today, have to work all day tomorrow and won’t even get much time to relax before it’s back to work on Monday at my regular job and I’m closing Monday at the grocery store too. I don’t know. Maybe it is too much.

I did finally have a phone screen yesterday that seemed to go well and is more in line with my current career goals but the hiring manager will be out this coming week so I don’t really any expect any news. I also had a terrible week at my regular job, and I really need to leave or be promoted off the phones soon before my mental health completely collapses. 

[PRgal]

I have to admit that while I love writing kids' books and working in philanthropy, there's a part of me that wanted to go into VC (venture capitalism).  I'm trying to learn finance and financial terms, but I feel it's too late (and my parents, especially my dad, have TOLD me it was), considering I'm nearing 45.  There's a lot I want to focus on, especially women-owned/founded businesses (heavily discouraged by my dad.  He thinks I should leave things wide open and not just on a certain demographic.  Ummm....50% of the population?).  What do you guys think?  I'd really love it if my dad was just more positive on all of this, especially since he HAS that kind of finance background.  

[Anela]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

I have to admit that while I love writing kids' books and working in philanthropy, there's a part of me that wanted to go into VC (venture capitalism).  I'm trying to learn finance and financial terms, but I feel it's too late (and my parents, especially my dad, have TOLD me it was), considering I'm nearing 45.  There's a lot I want to focus on, especially women-owned/founded businesses (heavily discouraged by my dad.  He thinks I should leave things wide open and not just on a certain demographic.  Ummm....50% of the population?).  What do you guys think?  I'd really love it if my dad was just more positive on all of this, especially since he HAS that kind of finance background.  

I know that feeling, but if you aren't dependent on your current income, I say go for it. Is it something that you can go back to, if it doesn't work out? 

I'm sorry your dad isn't supportive. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

I know that feeling, but if you aren't dependent on your current income, I say go for it. Is it something that you can go back to, if it doesn't work out? 

I'm sorry your dad isn't supportive. 

The philanthropy thing is kind of family-related, so I have to stick with it.  But I also want to expand to supporting women-focused projects, especially when it comes to investing.  

[Blergh]

OK, part of my job is having to notify folks via internal email  in other departments when there needs to be extra steps taken in order to do a procedure.

Well, after sending three internal emails to another department, we finally got someone from this other department on the phone and they admitted they'd gotten the three internal emails I'd sent them! ARGH!! So why didn't they respond so our department would want to know whether to take extra steps with a procedure or cancel said procedure?! I mean, I wasn't sending them a chain-letter [and I'm old enough to have gotten those bummers via snail-mail] but communicating something vital for that department and those they serve!

[isalicat]

On 7/3/2024 at 2:54 PM, PRgal said:

The philanthropy thing is kind of family-related, so I have to stick with it.  But I also want to expand to supporting women-focused projects, especially when it comes to investing.  

I have no idea what the laws are in Canada around these things, but anything basically discriminatory ("women-focused" or "minority-focused") is getting quickly shot down here in the U.S. in the courts as it is....discriminatory, even if well intentioned. So be careful around putting your personal financial eggs in a basket that may be porous.

[PRgal]

54 minutes ago, isalicat said:

I have no idea what the laws are in Canada around these things, but anything basically discriminatory ("women-focused" or "minority-focused") is getting quickly shot down here in the U.S. in the courts as it is....discriminatory, even if well intentioned. So be careful around putting your personal financial eggs in a basket that may be porous.

This would not be in my business plan/mandate, but it IS a fact that certain groups receive less funding.  And if a company makes, I dunno, period panties and sports bras (e.g. Knix), then wouldn't that be, by default, a company focusing on women? 

[isalicat]

24 minutes ago, PRgal said:

This would not be in my business plan/mandate, but it IS a fact that certain groups receive less funding.  And if a company makes, I dunno, period panties and sports bras (e.g. Knix), then wouldn't that be, by default, a company focusing on women? 

From what I can tell (and I am NO legal expert!) by default is perfectly permissible, its when it is explicitly delineated as "for women" (or in the case of the funding that the courts said was not allowed "for black women") that then you are opening yourself up to discrimination law suits (at least down here...maybe not up there).

[PRgal]

17 hours ago, isalicat said:

From what I can tell (and I am NO legal expert!) by default is perfectly permissible, its when it is explicitly delineated as "for women" (or in the case of the funding that the courts said was not allowed "for black women") that then you are opening yourself up to discrimination law suits (at least down here...maybe not up there).

Though this does exist

[isalicat]

5 hours ago, PRgal said:

Though this does exist

So two things then:

- If it is private money (not involving governmental money) then I guess it is most likely not open to discrimination lawsuits

- If this already exists, then why does there need to be more or another one? (which is what I think you were proposing, correct?) and it raises the question: if women-owned start ups do so much better than male-owned ones, it would seem obvious that capital would gravitate naturally to women-owned start ups. If not, why not? (seriously asking...not being flippant here)