S07.E15: Don't Be All, Like, Uncool

[SweetieDarling]

So I'm assuming these rooms are connected by bathroom only. The man entered his room from his own door, but could have walked through the bathroom to Heather and Carole's room. I think that's correct, something like a Jack and Jill type setup. Why didn't Heather or Carole have the bathroom door locked on the empty room side? They left their jewelry and purses out and didn't bother to lock the door to the un occupied room on that side of the bathroom?

I would have checked that door before going to sleep, just to feel safe. Plus they admitted that they knew there were men in the house.They must have felt very safe in that house to not bother to secure both doors.

Also, they did not knock when they entered Ramona and Sonja's room. So, making a big deal of knocking on LuAnn's door was kind of silly.

I don't think I would lock the other bathroom door if the room was supposed to be empty.  I would like to think since Ramona led him there, and he opted for the bed furthest from the bathroom, that one of them at least closed the door. And, if he needed to use the bathroom, he may have even closed both doors, but who knows, maybe I am giving naked dude too much credit (since he didn't rape and rob them).

 

He wasn't there yet when Heather went to bed, and I don't think when she heard the 3am party that she thought someone would end up sleeping next door, though she really shouldn't have ruled it out, knowing these women.

[SweetieDarling]

I'm still 1/2 ways through the posts but it sounds like the following could have happened (tongue in cheek):

Heather woke up naked after sleeping with Carol, then burst in on Ramona's guest who was sleeping as innocently as a baby (naked). She then whips Carol into a frenzy and they blitz Dorinda who is unaware of what the ruckus is about. They stormed into Ramona's room and demand to know why there is someone sleeping in the room formerly occupied by Bethanny. Ramona do the usual and then Luanne's door gets broken down. The slut shaming of Luanne begins and she is all proud of her sexual prowesses (but she only talked to a guy). Kristen vomits up something about the guy being married (it would require more intelligence than she possesses for it to be genuine 'throwing under the bus'

LOL….I know that isn't what happened

Isn't Carol the one who took some ecstasy (jelly bean or something) and got all high and throw up on her mid-life crisis sex toy? Heather was totally cool about that….

YES that is exactly what happened!

 

Yeah, Heather was all cool about Carol seeing trails and vomiting all over everything after eating laced gummy bears from a stranger at a bar she had never been to before.  That was funny.  Maybe because it only put Carol in great danger of rape, murder, God knows what else, on a first date with a 20-something that looks like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

[watcherwoman]

I don't think I would lock the other bathroom door if the room was supposed to be empty.  I would like to think since Ramona led him there, and he opted for the bed furthest from the bathroom, that one of them at least closed the door. And, if he needed to use the bathroom, he may have even closed both doors, but who knows, maybe I am giving naked dude too much credit (since he didn't rape and rob them).

 

He wasn't there yet when Heather went to bed, and I don't think when she heard the 3am party that she thought someone would end up sleeping next door, though she really shouldn't have ruled it out, knowing these women.

I'm a nut for checking doors, so having any empty room or occupied room with access to me and my stuff would drive me crazy. I would check and recheck those doors...lol. I just think there were many mistakes made during their trip, by everyone. I do find it funny that Sonja wasn't upset that Heather came straight to her after finding a naked man. Oh well!

[WireWrap]

So I'm assuming these rooms are connected by bathroom only. The man entered his room from his own door, but could have walked through the bathroom to Heather and Carole's room. I think that's correct, something like a Jack and Jill type setup. Why didn't Heather or Carole have the bathroom door locked on the empty room side? They left their jewelry and purses out and didn't bother to lock the door to the un occupied room on that side of the bathroom?

I would have checked that door before going to sleep, just to feel safe. Plus they admitted that they knew there were men in the house.They must have felt very safe in that house to not bother to secure both doors.

Also, they did not knock when they entered Ramona and Sonja's room. So, making a big deal of knocking on LuAnn's door was kind of silly.

When Heather/Carole went to sleep, no one else was in the house. The rest of the cast were out drinking and dancing while picking up random strangers to bring back to the house with them. At 3 am, Heather wakes up, hears loud music and voices, she does not say if she heard any guys so I will assume she only heard the other women partying and goes back to sleep. Even though they knew LuAnn/Sonja  brought a guy back to the St Barth's house, they sent him after they were done with him , so there was no reason for her to think that anyone would be staying the night outside of the other HWs, let alone a complete stranger/guy in the adjacent bedroom to theirs without being told/warned.   JMO

[ryebread]

I absolutely agree, except that none of the women were coherent when she woke them from dead sleeps, probably still drunk. So expecting normal conversation, let alone a coherent thought, at that point was questionable.

 

Exactly.  Lu was still half asleep and hungover when she stumbled into the kitchen to be yelled at, for the second time, by Heather.  I don't think Luann even realized what Heather was going on about at that point.  When she asked "What's the big deal?"  I really don't think she understood yet that Heather had been afraid.  It seemed to me that Lu thought Heather was pissed merely because they'd brought guys home.

 

Then Heather started explaining - loudly, in her face and with the wild hands - "It scared me, Luann! Naked man! in my bed! etc.  Don't I have the right to be upset?"  She then asked if Lu'd be upset and Lu said, "Not really" and pushed past her.  I think Luann was just over being accosted before the sleep was even out of her eyes yet.

[shoegal]

When Heather/Carole went to sleep, no one else was in the house. The rest of the cast were out drinking and dancing while picking up random strangers to bring back to the house with them. At 3 am, Heather wakes up, hears loud music and voices, she does not say if she heard any guys so I will assume she only heard the other women partying and goes back to sleep. Even though they knew LuAnn/Sonja brought a guy back to the St Barth's house, they sent him after they were done with him , so there was no reason for her to think that anyone would be staying the night outside of the other HWs, let alone a complete stranger/guy in the adjacent bedroom to theirs without being told/warned. JMO

Actually, Heather did say she was awakened at 3 am by partying and voices "of men".

Edited July 15, 2015 by shoegal

[AnnaMayWong]

☆☆In response to Vicky8765309☆☆

Heather was cool about that because she does NOT care with whom the women had sexual congress including Carol. Heather ONLY cared about the UNEXPECTED "introduction" to a STRANGE(er) NAKED man near her room. She was startled and frightened because SHE DID NOT KNOW HE WAS PRESENT. The morals/ethics comments were directed at the idea of a male stranger nude in the house without their knowledge and with no indication of the "claimant". Heather was not stating her mores,...were better--just different She was startled and frightened.

HHeather did not have the need to not be cool about Carol and some psychedelic gummi bear. She was not interested in these women's personal sex lives and devices therein. She was SCARED at seeing a STRANGER NAKED in HER ABODE upon awakening with no warning, information...

Just because you hear loud music does not indicate male voices are an accompaniment. And, if she did hear the male or male-like voices, so what. It does not pertain to leaving a nude male stranger like refuse near the women who did not swing from the chandelier with him. Wow, leave a note at the least.

Edited July 15, 2015 by BookElitist

[zoeysmom]

I just wish that instead of waiting so long to tell Carole about Naked Man, that Heather would have created the stir immediately after discovering him.  It might have been fun to see a naked man bolt down the stairs while holding his shoes and clothes over his privates. 

 

I'm totally surprised that after finding him lying there naked, she didn't wake Radzi up to come see.  Carole, for all her tweenish talk about penises, would've loved it.  They might've ended up giggling about naked man instead of going all Defcon1 at 10 a.m. 

 

So, why did she wait until the guy woke up, dressed, went downstairs and had juice before she told Carole?

There is some time lapse because the guy got up and went downstairs for a beverage and most likely to make arrangements to get to his hotel.  So Heather saw him once and then he turned over confirming in her mind he was not just sleeping but sleeping naked.  Heather then went downstairs only to see Ramona's guest again who was sitting on the couch and then went back upstairs to complain to Carole.  So Heather had some moments to gather herself or call production and explain her displeasure so cameras could roll in. Naked Scot didn't roll over in bed and end up down on the living room couch. What we do know is the house manager/ house boy was on the property as he had time to gossip with Kristen.

 

From the guy's standpoint he was an invited sleepover guest imagine his surprise having Heather walk in on him.  Heather said she went to the bathroom and brushed her teeth and opened the door into Bethenny's bedroom.  Welcome to Turks & Caicos and American reality TV stars.   

 

Heather's question to LuAnn about a naked man is just one of those questions you don't expect to have an answer contrary to your own. She can't get mad at her for not sharing her contrary view. 

 

There had to be a fair amount of time that passed from the first naked Scot sighting until the storm trooper drill. 

[WireWrap]

I don't think I would lock the other bathroom door if the room was supposed to be empty.  I would like to think since Ramona led him there, and he opted for the bed furthest from the bathroom, that one of them at least closed the door. And, if he needed to use the bathroom, he may have even closed both doors, but who knows, maybe I am giving naked dude too much credit (since he didn't rape and rob them).

 

He wasn't there yet when Heather went to bed, and I don't think when she heard the 3am party that she thought someone would end up sleeping next door, though she really shouldn't have ruled it out, knowing these women.

The bedroom that the guy slept in only had 1 bed in it. The room Heather/Carole slept in was the room with 2 beds. LOL

 

 

YES that is exactly what happened!

 

Yeah, Heather was all cool about Carol seeing trails and vomiting all over everything after eating laced gummy bears from a stranger at a bar she had never been to before.  That was funny.  Maybe because it only put Carol in great danger of rape, murder, God knows what else, on a first date with a 20-something that looks like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

Heather said "Oh Carole" when she was told about the "gummy bear" but Carole laughed it off and Heather went along with how Carole reacted and did not try to impose her own feelings.  She supported her friend in her friends decision, they both knew the guy, Adam, Carole was with at the time, and he did not slip her the gummy bear, someone else did.

[shoegal]

From the guy's standpoint he was an invited sleepover guest imagine his surprise having Heather walk in on him. Heather said she went to the bathroom and brushed her teeth and opened the door into Bethenny's bedroom. Welcome to Turks & Caicos and American reality TV stars.

Right, I mean naked Scotsman was the only one who was viewed when he was sleeping while naked and vulnerable. Then to top it off, his penis was insulted! Poor David, or John.....maybe he's a grower and not a show-er!

The bedroom that the guy slept in only had 1 bed in it. The room Heather/Carole slept in was the room with 2 beds. LOL

.

The room that was repeatedly shown has two beds, one still made and one (the furthest from the door) that was slept in, and Heather gestured to that bed. Edited July 15, 2015 by shoegal

[sekay87]

"Don't be all uncool" is my new favorite line of the Real Housewives franchise.

I'd probably be a little shocked/slightly pissed if I got out of bed naked and walked into an adjoining bedroom and saw a naked, strange man in there. That would be off-putting to me. But tears? Really? That was so over the top and insane. You're on a girl's trip with a few women who are single. Stuff is bound to go down and it's not like anything was actually stolen. Have a tequila shot and calm down, Heather. It's not that serious.

[Vicky8675309]

I hope Heather checked the guy's pulse before leaving the room. I guess his rolling over was proof he wasn't dead. I can see being upset that there is an unexpected person in the dwelling but a passed out naked guy wouldn't scare me unless I got myself worked up about what could have happened. That could have been addressed in a more calm manner. Everyone could have done something different so that this debacle didn't happen but then the show wouldn't be so entertaining (yes, I have plebeian tastes most of the time)

[ryebread]

It would be the epitome of slut shaming...if Heather were saying it about LuAnn hooking up. Heather didn't do that, however.

 

I agree.  The slut shaming didn't happen during the episode.  They saved that for WWHL.  But they're righteous in that slut shaming because Lu probably did something awful to them at the reunion.  That's what I can't stand about many of the HWs.  Just because one of them acts like a jackal, doesn't mean you necessarily have to respond in kind.  Bunch of pigs rolling around in the mud together.

 

Yeah, Heather was all cool about Carol seeing trails and vomiting all over everything after eating laced gummy bears from a stranger at a bar she had never been to before.  That was funny.  Maybe because it only put Carol in great danger of rape, murder, God knows what else, on a first date with a 20-something that looks like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

 

OMG.  Shaggy.  LOL. 

 

Also, Carole was so vocal and au courant about her open relationship with Russ.  But heaven forbid Lu sleeps with more than one. 

[TexasGal]

Actually, Heather did say she was awakened at 3 am by partying and voices "of men".

This makes me think of the pirate trip - Carole's classic "I heard 2 men's voices.  One of them was Luann."  

[WireWrap]

There is some time lapse because the guy got up and went downstairs for a beverage and most likely to make arrangements to get to his hotel.  So Heather saw him once and then he turned over confirming in her mind he was not just sleeping but sleeping naked.  Heather then went downstairs only to see Ramona's guest again who was sitting on the couch and then went back upstairs to complain to Carole.  So Heather had some moments to gather herself or call production and explain her displeasure so cameras could roll in. Naked Scot didn't roll over in bed and end up down on the living room couch. What we do know is the house manager/ house boy was on the property as he had time to gossip with Kristen.

 

From the guy's standpoint he was an invited sleepover guest imagine his surprise having Heather walk in on him.  Heather said she went to the bathroom and brushed her teeth and opened the door into Bethenny's bedroom.  Welcome to Turks & Caicos and American reality TV stars.   

 

Heather's question to LuAnn about a naked man is just one of those questions you don't expect to have an answer contrary to your own. She can't get mad at her for not sharing her contrary view. 

 

There had to be a fair amount of time that passed from the first naked Scot sighting until the storm trooper drill. 

We don't know that the guy called anyone or that he drank juice/swam right before leaving the house, no one witnessed him doing any of that. All we heard was Sonja surmise he did that as a way to prove he was not a "stranger" because she saw a half empty bottle of juice, not because she saw any of that as she was still sleeping when they went into her/Ramona's room.

 

I have no doubt that Heather called the producer sounding the alarm about a stranger being in the house without any of the HWs with him. I would have done so as well. If the producer and camera person were in that extra bedroom downstairs then she would have been quickly mic'ed and she would have been back in her room talking to Carole within minutes, not the length of time some here have alluded to. If she called them and they were at another hotel/house, it would still have been no more than 15 minutes, they are usually close by, before she had the mic on and I can hear the producer helping to work her up further by saying she was right to be upset and they need to find out who is responsible. I can also picture the producer not being happy that this happened, especially since there were no cameras there during the house party/hookups. LOL

[WireWrap]

I agree.  The slut shaming didn't happen during the episode.  They saved that for WWHL.  But they're righteous in that slut shaming because Lu probably did something awful to them at the reunion.  That's what I can't stand about many of the HWs.  Just because one of them acts like a jackal, doesn't mean you necessarily have to respond in kind.  Bunch of pigs rolling around in the mud together.

 

 

OMG.  Shaggy.  LOL. 

 

Also, Carole was so vocal and au courant about her open relationship with Russ.  But heaven forbid Lu sleeps with more than one. 

Carole was upfront about them having an open relationship, whereas LuAnn said that she and Jacs were in a "committed relationship", hell, she tried to pass off that they were trying for her to get pregnant even though her tubes were tied (tm LuAnns mom). LuAnn is a liar, a big liar. LOL

[WireWrap]

Right, I mean naked Scotsman was the only one who was viewed when he was sleeping while naked and vulnerable. Then to top it off, his penis was insulted! Poor David, or John.....maybe he's a grower and not a show-er!

The room that was repeatedly shown has two beds, one still made and one (the furthest from the door) that was slept in, and Heather gestured to that bed.

Ok, then Dorinda got the upstairs private bedroom. I thought it was Bethenny that had it. Thanks for the info. 

[SweetieDarling]

The bedroom that the guy slept in only had 1 bed in it. The room Heather/Carole slept in was the room with 2 beds. LOL

 

 

Heather said "Oh Carole" when she was told about the "gummy bear" but Carole laughed it off and Heather went along with how Carole reacted and did not try to impose her own feelings.  She supported her friend in her friends decision, they both knew the guy, Adam, Carole was with at the time, and he did not slip her the gummy bear, someone else did.

There were two beds.  The one closest to the bathroom was made and immaculate. The one further away, next to a black sofa against the wall, was the one where he had slept.

[zoeysmom]

First Look is Sunday at 8:35 pm.

Yes - There were two beds in Carole and Heather's room and I think there was only one bed in the adjoining room (Bethenny's).  

 

IIRC, Heather went from the room she shared with Carole into the bathroom.  That bathroom was situated between the room Heather and Carol shared and the one that Bethenny had just vacated.  That's when she saw the naked man because the doors from the bathroom to both bedrooms were  wide open.

 

I wonder if Heather or Carole used the bathroom during the night and didn't notice the naked man lying in the next room because that room was dark.  That makes his presence even more intrusive and creepy. IMHO.

They weren't wide open.  Heather said she opened the door into Bethenny's room after using the bathroom and brushing her teeth and had put her robe on. 

[halkatla]

Heather is so massively cool.

 

And Sonja had a few moments as old (and funny) voice of reason. I´ve missed that side of her.

 

Luann is much better as a friend of, she hangs on to the countess thing still and that´s not cool.

Edited July 15, 2015 by halkatla

[lunastartron]

"Would you care if Ella cursed?" "No, not really." "Well . . . you and I have very different ethics and values." Not offensive, I guess! Explicitly inserting morals into a discussion in order to establish a dichotomy between oneself and a person who has the temerity to disagree with your perspective is inherently about judgment. Heather was addressing the logistical and practical dangers of the circumstances and, because LuAnn disagreed with the extremity those *hypothetical* dangers posed, Heather steered the conversation into a moral referendum on LuAnn. Considering that she enthusiastically laughed on WWHL with Carole and Andy about Lu "sleeping with anyone" (paraphrase, not a direct quote); the media rounds in which she specifically described a number of Lu's sexual liaisons; and her talking head in which she sneered at Lu's choice to get her swerve on with married men, I don't see how there's any ambiguity about Heather's wholesale (and situationally convenient) judgment of Lu's sexual liberalism. I can recall some pretty considerable leaps of logic being undertaken on this board to transpose homophobia and racism onto remarks made by Aviva and those were significantly further removed in content than clarion references to "values" and "ethics" . . . And I myself don't understand the confusion about why someone who consistently makes pronouncements like "that's a line you just don't cross," "you just don't do that," and ad infinitum might be considered preachy. If the other women on the show are hypocrites about policing behavior, language, and conduct, that makes them hypocrites; it doesn't make Heather any less preachy. And (surprise, I know) I have to disagree about Heather sounding smart when she drops the gavel because, quite frequently, she manages to underline her own hypocrisy (see: calling Carole for backup against Lu and then deciding "this disagreement is between me and LuAnn" when Dorinda had the moxie to disagree with her; going out of her way to make BookGate a group discussion and democratic referendum only to declare "none of us knows" when Sonja didn't let her control the conversation).

[RedheadZombie]

:-) #Heather IS cool. Others and their sloppiness, definitely uncool. Holla!

 

#teamcoolheather

Holla motherfucker!

 

So this episode has taught me that I am uncool because:

 

1. I would not fuck a married man. Or any man I just met whose last name I can't even fake. And if I didn't know, but found out after the fact, I'd give a damn that he was married.

2. I would be PISSED AS ALL HELL that someone I was supposedly friends with gave less than a fuck about sending some rando dude up to sleep in a room adjoining mine, instead of sending him on his way after her little boink-fest.

3. I think a chick *might* manage to go dickless four days in a row.

4. I'm puritanical and prudish for believing that sleeping with the married man is, crazily, a worse transgression than saying someone did. (Is this the world we live in now?/RHOC)

5. I care more about the incident than the reaction. WHO GIVES A FUCK whether Heather got upset again in the retelling. That happens, the more something sinks in, the more hyped you get.

6. I am apparently a slut shamer. Because damned skippy I think it's trashy to behave like they did. I sure missed the memo when it was determined nobody was supposed to call a spade, a spade. 'Cause it's all okey-dokey-smokey to DO something. But bad to verbalize an opinion about it. FUCK THAT NOISE. I want a hashtag and campaign against all shaming.

7. I like to say fuck.

 

Much of the outrage was due in part to everyone acting like BFD. If they really owned their "sexual agency" (buzzword) they would have been fine with apologizing immediately for upsetting their friends. But they were so defensive over being busted due to their own sloppiness they made it a bigger thing than it had to be. That whole crew is on some old peer pressure, high school shit. Yeah, I'm officially unloving "be cool, don't be all ... uncool." That's exactly what people say who are doing some uncool shit, and don't want you making them think about it.

 

Still side-eyeing Sonja for a host of shit, but no doubt she was bringing it this episode with her Dorinda imitation and side quips about LuAnn's married dude, Ramona being green, basically busting her out and then snarking on her 80's designed jeans "so 80s. So you!"  Sober Sonja was hilarious.

 

 

Now, what now? KRISTIN is the gross one in this scenario? Woowww /Flava Flav.

 

Can I get an Amen and Hallelujah?  I feel like I'm losing my mind reading some of these responses.  I'm taking some of these posts too personally and it's starting to piss me off, so I should just back away slowly.  I mentioned this in the first look thread, but as uncomfortable as it makes me to speculate, I think Heather displayed a triggering reaction.  We've seen Heather for three years now, and as emotional as she can get, I believe she's only cried once, and it is was related to her son's medical issues.  She was genuinely emotional and overwrought, and her fear that the guy was masturbating while looking at them, is not a thought I would have.  It is a thought that someone who's been assaulted would easily jump to.  I think Carole was upset too, but part of her reaction (to me) was genuine concern for Heather, and I felt there was some unspoken things occurring between the two of them.

 

I'm not looking to engage in unsubstantiated claims that Heather has been traumatized in the past.  I certainly don't wish Heather to come forward and address the issue.  She was a lot more flippant on WWHL, but it's months later, and she doesn't seem the type to let the world in on a past bad experience.  I'm simply attempting to explain why I feel the way I do.  Watching that episode, my gut told me Heather was triggered.  To follow that up by reading posts calling Heather a hysterical drama queen playing up for the cameras, and the one at fault, is treading the line of victim blaming, IMO.  And to cast Carole (whom I don't even like) who seemed to be backing up her genuinely distressed good friend, as a brainless follower pet who secretly runs to Lu (of all people - as if!) apologizing and badmouthing Heather, makes me question why I'm bothering to post.  This is my last post on this particular topic, because as I said, my intention is not to speculate on something that will never be confirmed.  I'm simply attempting to verbalize my reaction to everything.

 

One last thing - In this world of opposites (actions are never to be judged, but reactions are picked apart and judged harshly), I want to be clear on what I was supposed to get from the episode.

 

1. a.  Lu slept with a married man - Do Not Judge - it is slut shaming!

    b.  Kristen stated on camera that man is supposedly married (quite possibly by producer prompting)  - BAD.  Slut-shamer!

2. a.  Bringing back strange men (apparently against the house manager's strenuous protests),  allowing them to wander unattended, allowing them to sleep near my sleeping and uninformed friends - Sexual liberation baby!  Girl's gotta scratch an itch.

    b.  Expressing alarm when discovering said naked stranger - Puritanical slut shamer who obviously never gets laid.

3. a.  Bringing back randos and then fucking them when you're so drunk that you can't remember if their name is Joe/James/Whatever, then expecting those you placed in an unsafe situation to be complicit in your fake classy show persona - Cool.

    b.  Finding you've been placed in an unsafe situation by a friend, and complaining - Uncool.

4. Going on a nonsensical drunken tirade (replete with food flying from your mouth) about the horrors of the "F word", whilst simultaneously screaming drunken "fucks" in a restaurant, speaking about "pure people", then devolving to nonsensical slurred gibberish - just a woman who's tired and overwhelmed, and driven to this behavior by foul mouthed slut-shamers.

5.  Drunken weeping and screaming about being left behind, and only attacking one of the "offenders" and calling her a bitch -  well, etiquette states we should all walk in together.  And again, poor thing's just wrung out.

6.  Get thrown under the bus by your co-conspirator ONS buddy - do not get angry at your buddy.  Instead blame the ones inconvenienced by your buddy, and conceive wild tale of being set up to be caught fucking on camera.

[Mozelle]

I agree. The slut shaming didn't happen during the episode. They saved that for WWHL. But they're righteous in that slut shaming because Lu probably did something awful to them at the reunion. That's what I can't stand about many of the HWs. Just because one of them acts like a jackal, doesn't mean you necessarily have to respond in kind. Bunch of pigs rolling around in the mud together.

OMG. Shaggy. LOL.

Also, Carole was so vocal and au courant about her open relationship with Russ. But heaven forbid Lu sleeps with more than one.

I don't watch WWHL, so I don't know the answer but were they making fun of the fact that the dude is married or that LuAnn was hooking up in general?

Also, I don't care for the "take the high road" approach. What does it prove? Oh, look how well you took someone's taunts and bitchery? Why is that kind of martyrdom praiseworthy? Like, are we really giving out medals and kadooz (TM Ramona) for it?

I ask all that to say that Heather and Carole responded once it was clear LuAnn was going off the rails on social media. They clapped back, and I'm applauding them. LuAnn hooks up with a married man and then months later creates a song titled "Girl Code"? That's looking to have your mess dragged out in the open.

Lastly I don't think Carole's and Russ' open relationship (both of whom agreed upon it) is comparable to LuAnn getting it in with a man who's married (given that we don't know if his marriage is an open one).

Edited July 15, 2015 by Mozelle

[zoeysmom]

We don't know that the guy called anyone or that he drank juice/swam right before leaving the house, no one witnessed him doing any of that. All we heard was Sonja surmise he did that as a way to prove he was not a "stranger" because she saw a half empty bottle of juice, not because she saw any of that as she was still sleeping when they went into her/Ramona's room.

 

I have no doubt that Heather called the producer sounding the alarm about a stranger being in the house without any of the HWs with him. I would have done so as well. If the producer and camera person were in that extra bedroom downstairs then she would have been quickly mic'ed and she would have been back in her room talking to Carole within minutes, not the length of time some here have alluded to. If she called them and they were at another hotel/house, it would still have been no more than 15 minutes, they are usually close by, before she had the mic on and I can hear the producer helping to work her up further by saying she was right to be upset and they need to find out who is responsible. I can also picture the producer not being happy that this happened, especially since there were no cameras there during the house party/hookups. LOL

Heather said he was downstairs when she went downstairs on he was sitting on the couch.

[lunastartron]

On WWHL, Carole and Heather were laughing at the indiscriminate nature of Lu's sexual appetite in general, not her hookup with a married man. And it has not been established that LuAnn knew the man was married or confirmed that the man was indeed married, happily or otherwise.

[Grneyedldy]

Once Bethenny left, for all intents and purposes her room became an extension of Heather and Carole's private space. It wasn't like housekeeping was going to make it up for the next guest to check in while they were still there. They had every right to expect privacy within the WHOLE suite. I agree with Ryebread that Heather got more emotionally worked up when no one was answering her and Carole's pleas for answers. Did they over react? Yes I think at that point they did, but I think it was understandable. I think if Heather had found Naked Man on the couch, she and Carole would gave giggled about it. I think.

[WireWrap]

There were two beds.  The one closest to the bathroom was made and immaculate. The one further away, next to a black sofa against the wall, was the one where he had slept.

As I posted above, I stand corrected.

 

"Would you care if Ella cursed?" "No, not really." "Well . . . you and I have very different ethics and values." Not offensive, I guess! Explicitly inserting morals into a discussion in order to establish a dichotomy between oneself and a person who has the temerity to disagree with your perspective is inherently about judgment. Heather was addressing the logistical and practical dangers of the circumstances and, because LuAnn disagreed with the extremity those *hypothetical* dangers posed, Heather steered the conversation into a moral referendum on LuAnn. Considering that she enthusiastically laughed on WWHL with Carole and Andy about Lu "sleeping with anyone" (paraphrase, not a direct quote); the media rounds in which she specifically described a number of Lu's sexual liaisons; and her talking head in which she sneered at Lu's choice to get her swerve on with married men, I don't see how there's any ambiguity about Heather's wholesale (and situationally convenient) judgment of Lu's sexual liberalism. I can recall some pretty considerable leaps of logic being undertaken on this board to transpose homophobia and racism onto remarks made by Aviva and those were significantly further removed in content than clarion references to "values" and "ethics" . . . And I myself don't understand the confusion about why someone who consistently makes pronouncements like "that's a line you just don't cross," "you just don't do that," and ad infinitum might be considered preachy. If the other women on the show are hypocrites about policing behavior, language, and conduct, that makes them hypocrites; it doesn't make Heather any less preachy. And (surprise, I know) I have to disagree about Heather sounding smart when she drops the gavel because, quite frequently, she manages to underline her own hypocrisy (see: calling Carole for backup against Lu and then deciding "this disagreement is between me and LuAnn" when Dorinda had the moxie to disagree with her; going out of her way to make BookGate a group discussion and democratic referendum only to declare "none of us knows" when Sonja didn't let her control the conversation).

Except that LuAnn uses the F word as does her daughter and Dorinda uses the F word as does her daughter. So both LuAnn and Dorinda are hypocrites in their charges against Heather. JS

 

#teamcoolheather

Holla motherfucker!

 

 

Can I get an Amen and Hallelujah?  I feel like I'm losing my mind reading some of these responses.  I'm taking some of these posts too personally and it's starting to piss me off, so I should just back away slowly.  I mentioned this in the first look thread, but as uncomfortable as it makes me to speculate, I think Heather displayed a triggering reaction.  We've seen Heather for three years now, and as emotional as she can get, I believe she's only cried once, and it is was related to her son's medical issues.  She was genuinely emotional and overwrought, and her fear that the guy was masturbating while looking at them, is not a thought I would have.  It is a thought that someone who's been assaulted would easily jump to.  I think Carole was upset too, but part of her reaction (to me) was genuine concern for Heather, and I felt there was some unspoken things occurring between the two of them.

 

I'm not looking to engage in unsubstantiated claims that Heather has been traumatized in the past.  I certainly don't wish Heather to come forward and address the issue.  She was a lot more flippant on WWHL, but it's months later, and she doesn't seem the type to let the world in on a past bad experience.  I'm simply attempting to explain why I feel the way I do.  Watching that episode, my gut told me Heather was triggered.  To follow that up by reading posts calling Heather a hysterical drama queen playing up for the cameras, and the one at fault, is treading the line of victim blaming, IMO.  And to cast Carole (whom I don't even like) who seemed to be backing up her genuinely distressed good friend, as a brainless follower pet who secretly runs to Lu (of all people - as if!) apologizing and badmouthing Heather, makes me question why I'm bothering to post.  This is my last post on this particular topic, because as I said, my intention is not to speculate on something that will never be confirmed.  I'm simply attempting to verbalize my reaction to everything.

 

One last thing - In this world of opposites (actions are never to be judged, but reactions are picked apart and judged harshly), I want to be clear on what I was supposed to get from the episode.

 

1. a.  Lu slept with a married man - Do Not Judge - it is slut shaming!

    b.  Kristen stated on camera that man is supposedly married (quite possibly by producer prompting)  - BAD.  Slut-shamer!

2. a.  Bringing back strange men (apparently against the house manager's strenuous protests),  allowing them to wander unattended, allowing them to sleep near my sleeping and uninformed friends - Sexual liberation baby!  Girl's gotta scratch an itch.

    b.  Expressing alarm when discovering said naked stranger - Puritanical slut shamer who obviously never gets laid.

3. a.  Bringing back randos and then fucking them when you're so drunk that you can't remember if their name is Joe/James/Whatever, then expecting those you placed in an unsafe situation to be complicit in your fake classy show persona - Cool.

    b.  Finding you've been placed in an unsafe situation by a friend, and complaining - Uncool.

4. Going on a nonsensical drunken tirade (replete with food flying from your mouth) about the horrors of the "F word", whilst simultaneously screaming drunken "fucks" in a restaurant, speaking about "pure people", then devolving to nonsensical slurred gibberish - just a woman who's tired and overwhelmed, and driven to this behavior by foul mouthed slut-shamers.

5.  Drunken weeping and screaming about being left behind, and only attacking one of the "offenders" and calling her a bitch -  well, etiquette states we should all walk in together.  And again, poor thing's just wrung out.

6.  Get thrown under the bus by your co-conspirator ONS buddy - do not get angry at your buddy.  Instead blame the ones inconvenienced by your buddy, and conceive wild tale of being set up to be caught fucking on camera.

STANDING OVATION!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Heather said he was downstairs when she went downstairs on he was sitting on the couch.

Sitting on the couch does not mean he had a juice or that he went for a swim after waking up. She did not mention seeing him do either.

[WireWrap]

First Look is Sunday at 8:35 pm.

They weren't wide open.  Heather said she opened the door into Bethenny's room after using the bathroom and brushing her teeth and had put her robe on. 

LOL, open doesn't mean wide open not does opening mean the door was completely closed! I suspect it was partially open as no one was to be/sleep in that room after Bethenny left. No need to have the door completely closed, more natural light allowed with the doors partially open. JMO

[Trooper York]

I can understand Heather being upset about the noise at 3am but I think Carole is just jealous of that late night partying.

 

I mean her dates have to be home in bed by 8pm because kindergarten starts early. Just sayn'

[ScoobieDoobs]

I was also bothered by the way Heather behaved when Ramona tried to skirt Dorinda away from her and hug her.  She was screaming at her like an angry mother to her disobedient child. And then "roping off" Dorinda with her arm and placing her body between them? WTF?  I laughed as Dorinda wriggled herself out the door.  Too funny!

 

Was Moaner so concerned about Dorinda or was she just trying to bug Heather?  Idk, to me, Moaner looked like she was trying awfully hard to annoy Heather in that scene.  Heather was getting pretty aggressive & demanding.  Er, sounds like Bethenny territory.  Except Bethenny just yells & screams STFU & acts like a demanding asshole all the time.  She's never physically threatening to anyone.  Man, Heather looked this close to socking Moaner in that moment.  Hmmm, what do ya bet Satan Andy set that shit up & had a producer egging Moaner on?

[ryebread]

I don't watch WWHL, so I don't know the answer but were they making fun of the fact that the dude is married or that LuAnn was hooking up in general?

 

Someone wrote in and asked, "Luann is like Epcot's World Showcase.  She's had a Frenchman, an Italian and now a Scotsman.  Does she only do it with Euros?"

 

Carole:  "Ohhh.  Maybe..."

Heather, cutting Carole off:  "Not really. Heh heh heh."  Bares toofuses.

Carole:  "She pretty much does it with anyone."  Looks to Heather for approval.

Heather rewards her minion by nodding and showing twenty more teeth than usual. 

 

Also, I don't care for the "take the high road" approach. What does it prove? Oh, look how well you took someone's taunts and bitchery? Why is that kind of martyrdom praiseworthy? Like, are we really giving out medals and kadooz (TM Ramona) for it?

 

As far as taking the high road approach, it doesn't prove anything. People who take the high road in an argument, generally aren't the type that need to prove anything to anybody.  If someone is taking the high road, they don't expect a medal.  They do so because it's natural to them.  They're just above.

 

Just because someone doesn't get down 'n' dirty with the pigs doesn't mean they're taking it up the bum like Sonja with the pirate.  (Thanks, Carole.)  It just means they are more fluent in the art of war.  Graceful.  Not willing to tarnish their own reps by sinking to the level of their enemy. 

[RedheadZombie]

I will never forget the camera shot of the naked man's juice. Priceless.

 

Ok, I initially misinterpreted this comment.  I thought - they zoomed in on the sheets?  That's disgusting!

 

Heather saying, "I guess Luanne and I have different values and morals" is the epitome of slut shaming. Equating a grown woman's sexual behavior with values and morals does not fly. Period. There were many more examples that I have recounted in earlier posts and am too lazy to find them again, but the intent to shame was pretty obvious IMO.

 

A woman of Heather's status, yeah- it would be a huge liability (and PR nightmare) for her to get assaulted on Bravo's time.

 

I guess its all irrelevant since Heather has left the show now.

 

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Heather was speaking of Lu's sexual habits.  Heather (and the audience) know the following:  Lu had a ONS and lied repeatedly about it, while in a long-term relationship with Jacques.  People have tried to excuse Lu by speculating they had an open relationship.  Considering the relationship ended after that event, I assume it was not open.  We also now know that Lu had a ONS with a married man, and if she didn't know before (which I highly doubt), she certainly didn't give a shit about it after the fact.

 

From the above info, I will state what Heather did - Lu and I have VERY different values and morals.  If being faithful to a monogamous relationship, and either refusing to fuck a married man, or expressing absolutely zero regret about fucking a man you didn't know was married, makes me a slut-shamer, then the term has lost it's original meaning.

[ryebread]

Heather was getting pretty aggressive & demanding.  Er, sounds like Bethenny territory.  

 

I agree.  Sounds like Bethenny territory but LOOKED like Brandi territory.  The way Heather was corralling Dorinda with her arm to keep Ramona away?  Shades of Brandi, Kim and Kyle on poker night.  Ah, good times, good times. 

[Lisin]

Guys, remember when talking to each other to please:

 

Agree to disagree and move it along. Don't pick on each other. 

[Sage47]

I LOVE seeing women of a certain age being vibrant and alive - sexually, professionally, and personally.  We rarely see it in media.

I do too. I actually kind of love that Ramona and Luann had a wild night for themselves with these guys. I like seeing "older" women portrayed as still sexual and up for a good time. There is too much ageism in society and it seems that once a woman hits 40 that too many are eager to put her on the shelf of old, washed-up, should be sitting at home, preferably knitting. It rubs me the wrong way as I am in my 40's and not very mellow at all!

 

Speaking of that, as an aside, why is Carole always age-bashing Ramona?? Carole herself is over 50 so WTF?? She continues to see herself through very rose colored lenses. I think Ramona looks awesome!

 

That said....even though I have no problem with Lu and Ramona (good on her for having some fun after Mario was such a snake) getting their kicks, I am definitely on Heather's side about waking up and seeing the naked man/stranger who had access to them. Sorry Luann, that is "uncool". Ramona needed to answer for that. She should have kept that guy by her side or sent him on his way.

 

Heather did go a little too crazy though. I understand why she was mad but she should have handled it a tiny bit better. Still, I know she was anxious and upset. I like Heather in general. She can be annoying and overbearing for sure but everyone has their faults.

 

It's definitely uncool that the guy was married. Luann could have expressed a smidgen of remorse about that. But then...there were always rumors that the Count cheated on her and maybe that she cheated on him too...it probably really isn't a big deal to her who is married or not.

[snowblossom2]

Eh. I didn't see a lot of slut shaming on WWHL. Heather again repeated that if any of them brought home men and stayed with them, it was no big deal, it was that he was by himself in the room that they shared a bathroom with. The comment re: Epcot was from a viewer, and it was literally 5 sec of them and to me it looked like Carole and Heather were following Andy's lead. And , Lu just wrote a song about it and brought up them wanting to "catch her in the act" (when that was clearly not the case and something Dorinda put in her ear), so she opened the can of worms for comments on her sex life. But Heather definitely reaffirmed that she tries not to judge anyone for their behavior and doesn't care who they sleep with.

[AnnaMayWong]

I have been truly amazed today. The wrath brought down upon Heather over this issue on the program and these boards.Heather has been belittled throughout this season while behaving in a mostly normal fashion. But, as soon as Heather exhibits fragile emotions over a frightening situation, she is bashed. Bashed by the those who are a constant potpourri of craziness, insensitivity, and gauche behavior. Where is the sympathy for Heather that she routinely gives to her showmates?

Mayhap, Heather has experienced some form of attack. But, of course Heather did not get a sympathetic ear nor even a simple acknowledgement of her fright.

I was attacked at university as a freshman. I was very athletic and ran, not jogged, everyday. ONE day, running through the campus tunnel to enter the track, I was snatched. Literally, snatched off of my feet and placed into a bear hug. Could. Not. Move.

I asked the guy point blank if he was going to rape me. As he pressed his disgusting face in my neck, he then began to tell that he had been watching me for weeks and that he loved me and wanted me. There are NO words to describe that deep bitterly frozen fear that my 18year old self endured. Do you know how I escaped,? Well, I allowed him to continue to nuzzle me and breathe his loathsome miasma on me as he discussed how much wanted me. After a bit, his grip relaxed and I lunged and sprinted and sprinted. The strange thing was the ROTC was performing their duties just a few yards away. Yet, in THAT situation, it was of no avail to me. So, yeah, those funny little dismissively pesky sexual attacks can occur anywhere and exceedingly quickly.

Heather gets a pass and a touchdown from me. The fear of even thinking about the possibility is sickening.

Heather is not insensitive nor dastardly enough for this show. She needs to get out while the gettin' is good.

Edited July 16, 2015 by BookElitist

[snowblossom2]

BookElitest, I agree with what you've said about Heather and I'm so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing

[Rhetorica]

Ah man, you are seriously harshing my mellow. I loved this episode because it was funny. Now we got posts trying to outdo others based on their "values and morals". Not cool...

Edited July 16, 2015 by Rhetorica

[ScoobieDoobs]

From Heather's blog-

Neither Luann nor Ramona wanted this man in their room, so apparently it was cool to leave him with me and Carole? Had one of them been with this guy, it would have been a much different situation. But instead, we woke up to a complete stranger that no one knew, sleeping across from us, while we slept, in a vulnerable state--with no security, barely dressed, and all of our valuables out for the taking? It is the epitome of uncool.

 

I appreciate that Ramona did eventually own up to her behavior and apologize, and luckily nothing happened. But first she tossed the responsibility to The Countess who totally fouled--making herself the spectacle (the only thing cool about this was my Yummie bra she was rockin!). She also unearthed, herself, much of what I think she now wished had remained private. Just like in St. Bart's with the pirate, it's not her...it’s everyone else who was wrong. And for Luann to think we were trying to set her up is a joke.

 

Even if some believe the possibility of some type of assault was remote or even impossible, he could have easily pocketed some of their valuables.  Moaner should NEVER have deposited him into Bethenny's room, which was connected to Carole's & Heather's.  Anyhoo, none of this had anything to do with Lu.  If she kept her cool, she wouldn't have revealed to the world that she'll sleep with married men, without a thought or care.  

 

So what does Lu mean here by the girl code, "Be cool, don't be uncool"?  That if you know I'm sleeping with married men, keep your fuckin' trap shut?  Nice.  Real nice, Lu.  Anyone agree with Lu's version of girl code?

 

Eh, this is all really lowball stuff.  Yeah, on one hand maybe it is cool older women can still enjoy sex, but to act like they're 20 years old doing Spring Break?  Feels so slimy to me.  Even beyond that, I stand by what I posted earlier.  Bringing home random strangers is dumb & dangerous.  I still think Heather made a good choice to ditch this show.  The only one Satan Andy cares about is Bethenny & that's it.  The rest of 'em, he clearly doesn't give a fuck about -- even Carole.

[HumblePi]

I don't even know why I remember this but it's called the Villa Bella.  hmmp:

 

It resembles an expensive mausoleum for dead explorers.

[missy jo]

he could have easily pocketed some of their valuables.

 

 

Yes, that's the first place their minds went to. These ladies don't travel on the cheap.

[Sage47]

It does look like a mausoleum. Where are the front, top windows?  And that doorway is just creepy. Heather and Terry Dubrow would love this place.

[WireWrap]

I have been truly amazed today. The wrath brought down upon Heather over this issue on the program and these boards.Heather has been belittled throughout this season while behaving in a mostly normal fashion. But, as soon as Heather exhibits fragile emotions over a frightening situation, she is bashed. Bashed by the those who are a constant potpourri of craziness, insensitivity, and gauche behavior. Where is the sympathy for Heather that she routinely gives to her showmates?

Mayhap, Heather has experienced some form of attack. But, of course Heather did not get a sympathetic ear nor even a simple acknowledgement of her fright.

I was attacked at university as a freshman. I was very athletic and ran, not jogged, everyday. ONE day, running through the campus tunnel to enter the track, I was snatched. Literally, snatched off of my feet and placed into a bear hug. Could. Not. Move.

I asked the guy point blank if he was going to rape me. As he pressed his disgusting face in my neck, he then began to tell that he had been watching me for weeks and that he loved me and wanted me. There are NO words to describe that deep bitterly frozen fear that my 18year old self endured. Do you know how I escaped,? Well, I allowed him to continue to nuzzle me and breathe his loathsome miasma on me as he discussed how much wanted me. After a bit, his grip relaxed and I lunged and sprinted and sprinted. The strange thing was the ROTC was performing their duties just a few yards away. Yet, in THAT situation, it was of no avail to me. So, yeah, those funny little dismissively pesky sexual attacks can occur anywhere and exceedingly quickly.

Heather gets a pass and a touchdown from me. The fear of even thinking about the possibility is sickening.

Heather is not insensitive nor dastardly enough for this show. She needs to get out while the gettin' is good.

Thanks for sharing!

 

From Heather's blog-

 

Even if some believe the possibility of some type of assault was remote or even impossible, he could have easily pocketed some of their valuables.  Moaner should NEVER have deposited him into Bethenny's room, which was connected to Carole's & Heather's.  Anyhoo, none of this had anything to do with Lu.  If she kept her cool, she wouldn't have revealed to the world that she'll sleep with married men, without a thought or care.  

 

So what does Lu mean here by the girl code, "Be cool, don't be uncool"?  That if you know I'm sleeping with married men, keep your fuckin' trap shut?  Nice.  Real nice, Lu.  Anyone agree with Lu's version of girl code?

 

Eh, this is all really lowball stuff.  Yeah, on one hand maybe it is cool older women can still enjoy sex, but to act like they're 20 years old doing Spring Break?  Feels so slimy to me.  Even beyond that, I stand by what I posted earlier.  Bringing home random strangers is dumb & dangerous.  I still think Heather made a good choice to ditch this show.  The only one Satan Andy cares about is Bethenny & that's it.  The rest of 'em, he clearly doesn't give a fuck about -- even Carole.

IMO, LuAnn was proud she banged a stranger, not that she was embarrassed, nor was she upset or surprised that he was married because, again just MO, she could care less about anyone's marriage/commitment vows as we have seen she does not honor her own.

 

I also think/believe that they all left T&C fine with each other, at least on the surface. Sometime after leaving T&C LuAnn, with Dorinda's help and blessing, decided to turn this into something that would guarantee her keeping her Apple next season. I think that both Heather and Carole were surprised (and hurt) when LuAnn turned their fear/shock into her battle cry at their expense. Had it not been for Heather/Carole, IMO, LuAnn would still be a "friend of" or she would have gone the way of Kelly/Cindy/Jill after last season's demotion.

[bref]

 

Even if some believe the possibility of some type of assault was remote or even impossible, he could have easily pocketed some of their valuables.

 

Right. Also could have taken naked pics of them as they lay sleeping, or masturbated while watching them sleep, or just gone through their things in the bathroom. None of which are things I would want happening to me and I would be pissed as hell too. Heather may have overreacted a bit--and I'm pretty sure she copped to that on WWHL or the aftershow--but in the moment? I totally get it. And Lu is RIDICULOUS. 

 

Someone up there ^^ mentioned that the other women overreact to crap ALL THE TIME, and make scenes, and often over much less consequential stuff. I felt Heather's tears came from some kind of a real place, and again, as others have mentioned, I think everyone not taking her concerns seriously (e.g. Lu's "not really" blow-off) aggravated her responses.

 

On the slut shaming issue, I think it's important to point out that Heather did not say morals and values, actually; she said ethics and values. I don't believe that consensual sexual activity is wrong, but there are ethical boundaries as in any other expression of human behavior, yes? You don't involve other people in a way that might be harmful, either by making them unsafe physically (RAMONA) or engaging in sexual relations with someone whose partner is not aware of it and/or has not given permission. I did think Heather unfortunately started to sound preachy, but it wasn't because Lu had sex with someone, and I wish she hadn't used the phrase because now people are using it to crucify her. I come down on the side of it-wasn't-slut-shaming. 

 

I really like Carole and Heather and enjoy their friendship. Often in relationships, one person is more alpha than the other--that doesn't mean one is the puppet or follower of the other. I would love to hang out with those two ladies.

Edited July 16, 2015 by bref

[HumblePi]

I will never forget the camera shot of the naked man's juice. Priceless.

Wow, when I first read this quickly, my mind took it all out of context and read.....

'I will never forget the camera shot of the naked man juice"

I thought, "how the heck did I miss that, must be on the sheets somewhere, let me rewind and freeze frame".  Oh then I read it again....duh

 

[izabella]

As far as taking the high road approach, it doesn't prove anything. People who take the high road in an argument, generally aren't the type that need to prove anything to anybody.  If someone is taking the high road, they don't expect a medal.  They do so because it's natural to them.  They're just above.

 

Just because someone doesn't get down 'n' dirty with the pigs doesn't mean they're taking it up the bum like Sonja with the pirate.  (Thanks, Carole.)  It just means they are more fluent in the art of war.  Graceful.  Not willing to tarnish their own reps by sinking to the level of their enemy. 

 

I think I'd fall over in shock if any of the Housewives took the high road. 

[izabella]

Yes, that's the first place their minds went to. These ladies don't travel on the cheap.

 

When these ladies went to Morocco, I recall Sonja hovering over her luggage and explaining that people steal luggage if you don't watch them.  She was very, very concerned about this.

 

And wasn't Ramona sporting a fanny pack on one of their trips so she could hold on to her valuables in the market?

[lunastartron]

So the foundation of Heather's blog is that she has a right to feel violated and no one can tell her otherwise but Lu has *no* right to feel violated and Heather has every right to tell her so. Heather is on a national reality show that ran for half a decade before she joined. I don't think she's demonstrably as intelligent in terms of constructing arguments as others do, but she's an accomplished forty-year-old woman. She's aware that her conduct is subject to opprobrium and parsing whenever she's in front of a camera. She has never suggested herself that she's a survivor of sexual assault but let's just assume that her screaming, inquisitions, escalating disassociation from reality ("my bed"), and so forth are attributable to past firsthand experience. Lu's indifference, apathy, and comfort level with naked men on the premises are presumably based on . . . past firsthand experiences during which nothing happened. Lu can't mind read so there is absolutely no reason why she might assume, especially when hungover and/or still drunk, "hey, maybe this is all about triggering!" And Lu didn't "out" her dalliances with a married man. Kristen did that and it has never been explained how production knew he was married; if Lu was aware of that possibility when she bedded him; and why that's relevant at all to the original grievance that Carole and Heather expressed. It seems as if Heather suddenly found it relevant for condemnation in a talking head after Lu expressed disagreement with the content and delivery of Heather's arguments during the interrogation. So Carole and Heather felt imperiled; Lu countered with a different opinion; and now Heather is offering talking heads abbout the specifics of Lu's sexual libertinism?

[AnnA]

4. Going on a nonsensical drunken tirade (replete with food flying from your mouth) about the horrors of the "F word", whilst simultaneously screaming drunken "fucks" in a restaurant, speaking about "pure people", then devolving to nonsensical slurred gibberish - just a woman who's tired and overwhelmed, and driven to this behavior by foul mouthed slut-shamers.

 

The last few episodes have completely changed my opinion of Dorinda.

 

I can't believe she actually called out Heather in her TH for "preaching" which was exactly what she did at the FU dinner.   

Edited July 16, 2015 by AnnA