The Taylor Swift Topic: Teen Country Sensation to World-Dominating Pop Star

[CaughtOnTape]

39 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

I am not a Taylor fan and I am not a big fan of pop music either, but I can usually see why others like her music. She makes catchy music. This song is awful. Of course it is more of the same with Taylor playing the victim, but so much of it just sounds like she is talking or chanting. It is extremely repetitive and not in a good way. An article I read said the song was about Kanye. Was it? All of you are so much better with Taylor lyrics/references than I am, and I could only stand to listen to the song once.

Sadly it seems to be because this chick cannot let anything go.  Seriously, you got called out for lying over a year ago...let it go.

But EOnline did an in depth article about the parts of the song where she's calling people out.

http://www.eonline.com/news/875793/taylor-swift-s-look-what-you-made-me-do-lyrics-decoded-is-she-calling-out-katy-perry-and-kanye-west

The saddest part of this is the references to Mean Girls.  Because how fucking juvenile do you have to be to go and get the music playing during a certain scene in a movie and stick it in your song?  This chick is as petty as petty comes.  Jesus Christ.

[cpcathy]

It's time for Tay Tay to move on. She is not branching out as an artist. This album will do well, just like all the others, but she needs to try something a little deeper, and revenge songs are not it. All the best artist reinvent themselves over and over, not stay in one "I'm mad at you xxx" place.

Edited August 26, 2017 by cpcathy

[27bored]

Yeah, I think Taylor's about to catch her first L. I know she has fans but those are fans of the old Taylor. And that Taylor's dead, according to her. Whatever.

Not sure if you guys are into astrology, but Taylor, like many other female pop stars, is a Sagittarius. Sags are kinda known for holding grudges. No shade to anyone. My girl Christina is a Sag and she still sings "Fighter", a song that she came out with fourteen years ago when she was like 21, like it's the newest shit ever.

[WhitneyWhit]

Taylor is that bitchy girl from high school who never moves past her mean girl stage and continues to hold the same grudges years after everyone has moved on and grown up. She's closing in on 30, but is mentally stuck as a vengeful 17 year old girl.  Newsflash, girl, you were exposed as a liar using your own words, have a seat.

[Cranberry]

I don't like any of Taylor's older stuff, but I thought 1989 was pretty great and I was hoping for more of the same. The new single is awful. The lyrics are amateur (she rhymes time with time and the chorus is just the same line over and over). The song is petty, repetitive, and not even catchy.

I have this thing, too, where even if a song is actually good (like "Bad Blood," which is a well-crafted pop song), but I know the backstory and it's stupid and petty, I cannot enjoy the song. "Bad Blood" is the only song I skip over when I listen to 1989. This song will be the one I skip on the upcoming album (assuming I even like the rest of it).

[AgentRXS]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/taylor-swift-beyonce-formation-video_us_59a05b6fe4b05710aa5bf5f5

Taylor's being dragged for her video looking similar to "Formation".

That "Hottest Hairstyle of 1983" mop on her head looks ridiculous.

[GaT]

One thing I don't understand about the song is the title. What did she do? When you say "look what you made me do", it means you've done something (usually bad), has she done something we don't know about yet?

[UYI]

1 hour ago, GaT said:

One thing I don't understand about the song is the title. What did she do? When you say "look what you made me do", it means you've done something (usually bad), has she done something we don't know about yet?

I think she's saying that Kanye and Kim MADE her become a villain (a villain who thinks she should still be treated as a heroine, but still). Which...okay hon. 

And I have no doubt this is how she really feels, too. I didn't buy "Shake It Off" for one second-- to me, it sounded like she was smiling through gritted teeth--but I DO believe that she feels she was unfairly forced into a position of villainy, even though a lot of this was of her own doing. It's certainly honest. I wouldn't say that's really a GOOD thing, but I do think this is how she genuinely feels. (And way to use the number one phrase favored by domestic abusers, Taylor! WTF?) 

Edited August 26, 2017 by UYI

[UYI]

[27bored]

22 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I don't like any of Taylor's older stuff, but I thought 1989 was pretty great and I was hoping for more of the same. The new single is awful. The lyrics are amateur (she rhymes time with time and the chorus is just the same line over and over). The song is petty, repetitive, and not even catchy.

I have this thing, too, where even if a song is actually good (like "Bad Blood," which is a well-crafted pop song), but I know the backstory and it's stupid and petty, I cannot enjoy the song. "Bad Blood" is the only song I skip over when I listen to 1989. This song will be the one I skip on the upcoming album (assuming I even like the rest of it).

For fun, sometimes I listen to "Bad Blood" pitch-shifted to sound like a dude. Taylor's voice translates well as a dude and it's fun hearing that song almost like an old Justin Timberlake song. Even some of the lyrics -- "you hit me where I'm weak baby I couldn't breathe -- sound better coming from a bitchy dude. Check it out on YouTube. "Bad Blood" (male version)

[UYI]

[GaT]

35 minutes ago, UYI said:

Because he's the lead singer for Whitesnake (bolding mine)

[Neko]

On 8/25/2017 at 9:23 PM, Cranberry said:

I don't like any of Taylor's older stuff, but I thought 1989 was pretty great and I was hoping for more of the same. The new single is awful. The lyrics are amateur (she rhymes time with time and the chorus is just the same line over and over). The song is petty, repetitive, and not even catchy.

I have this thing, too, where even if a song is actually good (like "Bad Blood," which is a well-crafted pop song), but I know the backstory and it's stupid and petty, I cannot enjoy the song. "Bad Blood" is the only song I skip over when I listen to 1989. This song will be the one I skip on the upcoming album (assuming I even like the rest of it).

Same, here.  Even if it comes on the radio, I have to switch the station.  I can't stand it.

Anyway, I'm 36, so maybe I'm just too old to "get" Taylor Swift, but I just don't understand what she is trying to do as an artist.  All I ever hear is how she's a force to be reckoned with because she writes her own songs, but a good number of those songs are about things that happened YEARS ago.  That is some serious stagnation, there.  She reminds me a lot of Christina Augilera in the sense that she's relying on the same formula that worked for her before, and seems to think that will keep her career going, but the public will eventually lose interest, if they haven't already.  I don't know, maybe the rest of this album is amazing, but I have zero desire to check it out because I'm so damn sick of her and her attitude.  I don't care who wronged you, or when, or why.  What else have you got?

One more thing: "Look What You Made Me Do" is a creepy title.  It's what an abuser says as they're beating the shit out of you.  Eek.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Sweet Summer Child

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, in music, it's evolve or die. I get Taylor Swift has had a successful formula, and made it work for her. But her fanbase is likely maturing while she still seems stuck in teenybopper conflict land.

I'm 44, will be 45 next month, so maybe I'm talking out of my behind here, since I've never been a fan in the first place. Except for a Christmas song she did - and not the AWFUL flat "Last Christmas" remake she butchered! - so there's that. And maybe revenge songs will gain her new young fans.

But if she wants to remain doing this a la Madonna when she reaches her 30s, 40s, and beyond, does she REALLY want to keep singing songs about ex-boyfriends who she thinks have wronged her?

Move on and grow up.

[GaT]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

But if she wants to remain doing this a la Madonna when she reaches her 30s, 40s, and beyond, does she REALLY want to keep singing songs about ex-boyfriends who she thinks have wronged her?

Move on and grow up.

I don't think Madonna should be her role model, because she's the very definition of someone who needs to move on and grow up. The "bratty teenager" thing she still does was old years ago.

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, GaT said:

I don't think Madonna should be her role model, because she's the very definition of someone who needs to move on and grow up. The "bratty teenager" thing she still does was old years ago.

YMMV but I would not categorize Madonna as being the "bratty teenager" and I don't remember her shtick ever being singing cutesy, high school level songs about crushes and her real life five-minute relationships. Madonna's shtick was sex and her sex appeal and sexual empowerment. Taylor and sex don't even compute, in my opinion. That said, I believe what the poster was referring to is how Madonna for decades was referred to as the Queen of Reinvention because of her ability to change her sound and look when things started getting boring and predictable with her. 

For example, after Bedtime Stories and her Sex book flopped because the over the top sexual display became a little too predictable and uninteresting to some, she turned things around in a big way and had arguably her best album with Ray of Light, which was later followed up by Music, also a different direction for her. Madonna today is just the antics of an aging pop star who can't accept that she's too old to be shocking or a rebel. The problem with Taylor is she's being doing this same, "I'm the victim and I'll call you out in my songs" crap since she started. 1989 was something of her reinvention but not really because in my opinion, she'd been veering to the pop sound for years. She just finally fully embraced it and stopped pretending she was country. 

But the fact is this supposedly new Taylor, as many critics have pointed out, is really the same Taylor with just a shitty single. This is who she has been since her first album. Poor me, I'm the victim, people are mean, I will insult you in my songs, etc. Girl wears victimhood like no one else. 

[UYI]

Oh my God, this video. Bless her heart indeed.

 

[GaT]

7 minutes ago, UYI said:

Oh my God, this video. Bless her heart indeed.

 

LOL, the end really made me laugh

14 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Madonna today is just the antics of an aging pop star who can't accept that she's too old to be shocking or a rebel. 

That's what I mean by her "bratty teenager" thing, she still thinks that whatever she does is shocking to everyone & it's pathetic to watch.

[UYI]

28 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

For example, after Bedtime Stories and her Sex book flopped because the over the top sexual display became a little too predictable and uninteresting to some, she turned things around in a big way and had arguably her best album with Ray of Light, which was later followed up by Music, also a different direction for her. Madonna today is just the antics of an aging pop star who can't accept that she's too old to be shocking or a rebel. The problem with Taylor is she's being doing this same, "I'm the victim and I'll call you out in my songs" crap since she started. 1989 was something of her reinvention but not really because in my opinion, she'd been veering to the pop sound for years. She just finally fully embraced it and stopped pretending she was country. 

. 

Not to be THAT person, but Erotica was the album that caused that backlash. Bedtime Stories (and eventually, Ray of Light) helped bring her back. 

[WendyCR72]

I recall "Bedtime Stories" because "Take A Bow" became huge off that one. Couldn't escape it around 1994.

[scarynikki12]

If I'm interpreting the video correctly, Look What You Made Me Do means that she's becoming a trainwreck and it's somehow all our fault?

[27bored]

It seems like Taylor's Taylorness made much more sense in Country than in Pop. She sounds like an anonymous demo singer more often than not on her Pop songs. "I Knew You Were Trouble" was a Number 1 hit, but it took me a few listens to even realize that was her. Even with "Look What You Made Me Do", it could be a demo. Her voice loses any sort of character it might have on Pop.

At least when she was a Country singer she had real songs and a personality. Go just read the the lyrics to "Mine". It's like, okay yeah, this is a real song by a young girl. "You made a rebel from a careless man's careful daughter" is a neat bar. This "Look What You Made Me Do" shit, though? Nah.

[UYI]

IKYWT actually went to number two, but I see what you mean. (Her number one pop songs so far have been WANEGBT, Shake It Off, and Bad Blood, and of course, she had a few country number one hits, too.) 

Edited August 28, 2017 by UYI

[27bored]

OK, so in fairness to me, it went Number 1 on the Adult and Mainstream Top 40, but in fairness to you, it was Number 2 on the Hot 100 (which is the chart I was thinking about when I initially posted).

Also: Is WANEGBT cousins with LGBT? I'm gonna write a song that abbreviates to LGBT. Let Go Be Through. Let God Be There. Losing Ground (Big Time).

I'm gonna work on it...

[RHJunkie]

On 2017-08-28 at 0:00 AM, scarynikki12 said:

If I'm interpreting the video correctly, Look What You Made Me Do means that she's becoming a trainwreck and it's somehow all our fault?

I interpreted the song and video as someone who is singing about having to grow up and lose her innocence because of the way she was wronged by someone. So she's basically telling the world that she can never be that innocent girl ever again and there's someone (not her) who is to blame for it.  I can appreciate that her songs are her point of view, but in the big manufactured brand that is Taylor Swift, it's hard not to roll your eyes and think how pretentious and deluded she is in life when she sings about all of these life experiences and yet somehow her only faults are being too innocent, loving too much, being too kind, being too trustful, etc. which lend to her getting screwed over. I do see the song as an acknowledgement that she did take a hit for the Kanye scandal but as her lyric suggests, she rose from the dead, she does it all the time.

And the song is a rip off of Fergie. Every single thing about it.

[JustaPerson]

A listicle of underrated TSwift songs. Hey Stephen was one of my personal favorites on Fearless and I love The Last Time.

Edited September 1, 2017 by JustaPerson

[UYI]

21 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I interpreted the song and video as someone who is singing about having to grow up and lose her innocence because of the way she was wronged by someone. So she's basically telling the world that she can never be that innocent girl ever again and there's someone (not her) who is to blame for it.  I can appreciate that her songs are her point of view, but in the big manufactured brand that is Taylor Swift, it's hard not to roll your eyes and think how pretentious and deluded she is in life when she sings about all of these life experiences and yet somehow her only faults are being too innocent, loving too much, being too kind, being too trustful, etc. which lend to her getting screwed over. I do see the song as an acknowledgement that she did take a hit for the Kanye scandal but as her lyric suggests, she rose from the dead, she does it all the time.

And the song is a rip off of Fergie. Every single thing about it.

Although given the racial factor of that particular situation, I'm not sure I would be bragging about that one, given that she never apologized and only doubled down more in her own defense.

[truthaboutluv]

She's released a new song. Not surprisingly it already has a million views and her fans are kavelling over it, calling it the greatest thing ever. Me, I'm still waiting to be impressed. 

[GaT]

Well, that's.....different. I guess this is her "edgy" album.

[UYI]

Bless her heart for thinking this actually made her look less like the living embodiment of a Pumpkin Spice Latte. 

[Cranberry]

...I don't think I'm going to like this album.

[27bored]

8 hours ago, UYI said:

Bless her heart for thinking this actually made her look less like the living embodiment of a Pumpkin Spice Latte. 

With this ring, I thee wed.

Edited September 4, 2017 by 27bored

[WendyCR72]

I'll voice a VERY UO here: Auto-tuning has given many "musicians" their careers, and I think Ms. Swift should thank her lucky stars that image now tops talent, vocal wise. If she doesn't use auto tune, her image (or attempt to change it) has kept her in the limelight, IMO. She can write songs, which I'll credit her for. But actually sing? Not so much. (To me, to be clear.)

I'll NEVER forget the train wreck of a duet she did with Stevie Nicks years back on Oprah or some talk show. Stevie kept trying to change key so as to try and stay in harmony with Taylor, and the results were awful.

The fact that 99% of her songs are about her boyfriend du jour that wronged her and...well, I'm sincerely glad there are those that enjoy Taylor Swift's music. I just happen to not be one, personally.

Now, get off my lawn!

[UYI]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

 

I'll NEVER forget the train wreck of a duet she did with Stevie Nicks years back on Oprah or some talk show. Stevie kept trying to change key so as to try and stay in harmony with Taylor, and the results were awful.

 

Oh honey, it was worse than a talk show. It was at the 2010 GRAMMYS. And even though Taylor won Album of the Year that night (for her second album, Fearless), it was almost completely overshadowed by her royally embarrassing herself in front of Stevie Fucking Nicks, of all people. ("Maybe Kanye was right."--Seth McFarlane)

Edited September 4, 2017 by UYI

[27bored]

Dude I remember that. I've noticed the Grammys have cut back on pairing older acts with legends since that performance. Not to say they won't do it, but they're very selective. That used to be something the Grammys loved to do. I remember when the Jonas Brothers performed with Stevie Wonder and forgot the lyrics to Superstitious. 

[UYI]

On 8/28/2017 at 6:33 PM, UYI said:

IKYWT actually went to number two, but I see what you mean. (Her number one pop songs so far have been WANEGBT, Shake It Off, and Bad Blood, and of course, she had a few country number one hits, too.) 

I forgot: Blank Space was a number one hit, too, and her longest reigning one at that. My mistake.

(This is prompted by LWYMMD going to number one this week. Hoo. fucking. ray. I guess.) 

[RHJunkie]

On 2017-09-02 at 9:40 AM, UYI said:

Although given the racial factor of that particular situation, I'm not sure I would be bragging about that one, given that she never apologized and only doubled down more in her own defense.

Does she apologize for anything?

The fact that she was changing the narrative throughout the ordeal so that wouldn't have to address the fact that she lied...it says a lot about her and the lengths she will go to to protect that well manicured image she has cultivated. It's hard to respect artistry when it's packaged in such an inauthentic fashion. 

[UYI]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

Does she apologize for anything?

 

She apologized for the Twitter thing with Nicki, where people called her out on making Nicki's concerns about POC and the VMAs (and award shows in general, really) into something about herself, but that's about it. 

[methodwriter85]

Well, she's back to number 1.

I don't really like the song, but I love the video. I wish we had seen Blank Space Taylor, though. That's my favorite Taylor.

Edited September 5, 2017 by methodwriter85

[27bored]

Boo. Don't worry you guys. Taylor's tempting artistic karma. Meaning, every time an artist gets too many hits because of their fame, it usually means a good project that's underappreciated is not too far behind. Enjoy the wave, Tay Tay.

That said, I'm glad we have another #1 so we can stop pretending Despacito is a good song. Because it's not.

Edited September 5, 2017 by 27bored

[RHJunkie]

2 hours ago, UYI said:

She apologized for the Twitter thing with Nicki, where people called her out on making Nicki's concerns about POC and the VMAs (and award shows in general, really) into something about herself, but that's about it. 

I don't count that because there was no way for Taylor to save face with that one and she was clearly in the wrong. Nicki didn't mention names and didn't even call out any of the artists, she was talking about the award shows in general. Once people got on Taylor for her response, there was no way for her to get out of that but to explain that she misinterpreted the comments. Her misinterpretation in that situation was completely born out of her over sensitivity to anything that may make her look bad. 

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

That said, I'm glad we have another #1 so we can stop pretending Despacito is a good song. Because it's not.

I swear, I never got all the hype about Despacito.  It is not a good song.

[Zuleikha]

. Nicki didn't mention names and didn't even call out any of the artists, she was talking about the award shows in general. Once people got on Taylor for her response, there was no way for her to get out of that but to explain that she misinterpreted the comments. Her misinterpretation in that situation was completely born out of her over sensitivity to anything that may make her look bad.

Nicki's tweets were "If I was a different "kind" of artist, Anaconda would be nominated for best choreo and vid of the year as well. When the "other" girls drop a video that breaks records and impacts culture they get that nomination." Whether Nicki meant it to or not, IMHO that does appear to refer to Taylor Swift given that she was the only white woman nominated for VotY that year. (I thought I remembered there being a tweet specifically about half-dressed white women getting videos nominations, but I didn't find it in my quick Google and I'm not about to spend THAT much time refreshing my memory.)

I've always found the defense of Nicki to be strange since and IMHO, Taylor is right that it was problematic to refer only to women and not mention men at all,. But more than that, Beyonce's "7-11" was also nominated, so what exactly does Nicki Minaj mean that if she was a different "kind" of artist? What "kind" of artist is she versus Beyonce? Is Beyonce an "other" girl? On top of that, Kendrick Lamar was also nominated that year, so there were two African-American artists and Filipino Bruno Mars was the singer and main face associated with "Uptown Funk" (although Mark Ronson got the main credit). What point was Nicki actually making about PoC and awards shows when PoC were pretty well represented at Video of the Year?

[UYI]

She had a tweet about women with "very slim bodies", not half-dressed women. Which, incidentally, is what set Taylor off. 

[CaughtOnTape]

7 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

 

Nicki's tweets were "If I was a different "kind" of artist, Anaconda would be nominated for best choreo and vid of the year as well. When the "other" girls drop a video that breaks records and impacts culture they get that nomination." Whether Nicki meant it to or not, IMHO that does appear to refer to Taylor Swift given that she was the only white woman nominated for VotY that year. (I thought I remembered there being a tweet specifically about half-dressed white women getting videos nominations, but I didn't find it in my quick Google and I'm not about to spend THAT much time refreshing my memory.)

I've always found the defense of Nicki to be strange since and IMHO, Taylor is right that it was problematic to refer only to women and not mention men at all,. But more than that, Beyonce's "7-11" was also nominated, so what exactly does Nicki Minaj mean that if she was a different "kind" of artist? What "kind" of artist is she versus Beyonce? Is Beyonce an "other" girl? On top of that, Kendrick Lamar was also nominated that year, so there were two African-American artists and Filipino Bruno Mars was the singer and main face associated with "Uptown Funk" (although Mark Ronson got the main credit). What point was Nicki actually making about PoC and awards shows when PoC were pretty well represented at Video of the Year?

Maybe had she adulted that day and called up Nicki with this response, rather than posting her whine on Twitter so the world could see yet another person had disrespected her without her having done a thing to warrant it, I could get behind it.  As it was, she made a very public spectacle about something that no one was entirely sure was aimed at her.  

[GaT]

5 hours ago, UYI said:

She had a tweet about women with "very slim bodies", not half-dressed women. Which, incidentally, is what set Taylor off. 

Yeah, it was obvious who Nicki was talking about. But you know, if you're going to get giant ass implants, then maybe you shouldn't complain about women who still have "very slim bodies".

[Zuleikha]

 As it was, she made a very public spectacle about something that no one was entirely sure was aimed at her.  

Nicki's comments were public and Taylor was definitely included in what Nicki was referencing. IMHO, the only reasonable debate is whether Nicki was thinking of Taylor specifically or was thinking of a category of artist that happened to include Taylor as a current representative. I do think it was the latter rather than the former, but I disagree that Taylor shouldn't have responded publicly to a public comment. Or that Taylor whined. I thought Taylor's tweet was a fairly gentle reminder not to overlook the men, and I think Taylor had a point. Video of the Year is an inclusive category and there were more men than women nominated that particular year. 

[27bored]

As info: Nicki Minaj? Also a Sagittarius.

[CaughtOnTape]

On 9/8/2017 at 0:57 PM, Zuleikha said:

Nicki's comments were public and Taylor was definitely included in what Nicki was referencing. IMHO, the only reasonable debate is whether Nicki was thinking of Taylor specifically or was thinking of a category of artist that happened to include Taylor as a current representative. I do think it was the latter rather than the former, but I disagree that Taylor shouldn't have responded publicly to a public comment. Or that Taylor whined. I thought Taylor's tweet was a fairly gentle reminder not to overlook the men, and I think Taylor had a point. Video of the Year is an inclusive category and there were more men than women nominated that particular year. 

Just because Nicki Minaj is Nicki Minaj and not afraid to publicly call someone out by name when she's got an issue, I maintain that this comment probably was not directed at her.  Taylor's entire MO is responding publicly to any perceived slight....so I'm not shocked she chose to do it this time.  

[UYI]

Todd in the Shadows is a fucking hero.