Dark Matters of the Killing of Joy: Smackdown Central

[Snarkette]

Android sucks. Lucy rocks.  Discuss.

[Mars477]

Dutch is the best, full stop. Two needs more personality and less "who does she want to bone". And hey, Killjoys' Asian badass Fancy is more fun than Four and not to mention dapper as fuck, with less stupid "cool" impractical sword twirling.

[Ariah]

I'm quite furious at Dark matter for taking a cool concept (that I had five years ago and never got down to writing!) and turn it into a gorram mess. Bad special effects, bad acting, budget locations screaming they're budget... Oh, and unimpressive world. Yes, there are hints at royal families (with Four) and other things, but nothing close to KillJoys' religion/company/royals/assassins/RAC combo.

 

Funny, because I was much more sceptical about KillJoys, but then they came and stole my heart.

 

I can't wait what they'll do with tv-tropic theme of ghost ship!

[Snarkette]

On paper, Dark Matter won for me: a rag-tag collection wakes up in space with no memory of their former lives and a dark conspiracy that's put them on the run. Part Firefly, part Bourne Identity, they must learn to work together to reclaim their identities -- and protect them from an even larger threat that none of them can yet see.

 

Compare that to: Squabbling brothers and a friend-zoned but kickass boss are future Dog the Bounty Hunters in Space. With a snarky ship and a world built on "What's in it for me", they find fun, love, and adventure.

 

So color me surprised at my overall reception to the two. I'm loving Killjoys, can barely sit through DM without fast forwarding. (And I've developed a physical allergy to Android. She gives me hives.)

 

Can't wait for the big derelict ship next week for even more comparison sweetness.

[jelaine]

Mallozzi and Mullie kinda destroyed Stargate: Atlantis for me, so I won't ever bother checking out Dark Matter.  Not even for David Hewlett appearances.  Well, maybe on Hulu.  But just those.

[Pothunter]

I am loving Killjoys in that 'don't wanna miss an episode' way, but Dark Matter I can take or leave.

 

DM does bring to mind Farscape, but only because of the former's inferiority. One is no Crichton (in either of his incarnations), Two is no Aeryn Sun, the setting is not nearly as interesting, etcetera, etcetera. Given the showrunners, this is bound to become as formulaic and boring as SGA.

 

All the characters on Killjoys have a certain charm and vitality. Dutch is the best, right up there with Aeryn Sun, and even the brother was great in the latest episode.

[FurryFury]

Dark Matter is a much more ambitious show, but that premise (which is pretty good) is completely wasted on its bland, perfunctory execution, shallow characters and over-reliance on cliches. Also, the world of Killjoys feels much more alive and real than on DM. As for characters and acting, again, KJ's better - I already hate One with a passion and am mostly meh on the others, while I like the whole team of Dutch, Johnny and D'Avin (and Lucy). Although I would have liked more cast members TBH.

[xfuse]

 

Dark Matter is a much more ambitious show, but that premise (which is pretty good) is completely wasted on its bland, perfunctory execution, shallow characters and over-reliance on cliches. Also, the world of Killjoys feels much more alive

I feel that the characters of KJ is predicable and mostly bland except Johnny for the most part. I don't feel as if there is going to be any surprises about the cast. The universe feels like they threw in bits and pieces from other shows. I'm not saying DM is great but so far I am more entertained by it.

[call me ishmael]

I feel that the characters of KJ is predicable and mostly bland except Johnny for the most part. I don't feel as if there is going to be any surprises about the cast. The universe feels like they threw in bits and pieces from other shows. I'm not saying DM is great but so far I am more entertained by it.

D'avin is a bit bland but both Johnny and Dutch are far more complex and skilled than anything on DM (although Six has promise).  And in terms of thrown together from other shows has there been anything original at all in the DM storyline or universe?  I just think that the writers of DM don't know where they are heading and they simply drop things.  Like what ever happened with the dead boy?  Yes it ties in with 5 finding the gadget for the multiverse (so that they can copy every multiple universe story ever) but nothing about the kid himself.  And it had no repercussions for anyone or anything.  Gah.

[sjohnson]

There's no doubt that the Killjoys characters spend much, much more time acting cool than the ones in Dark Matter. 

[rove4]

I watch both shows but definitely enjoy KJ more. It has actual world building going on and characters with personality (yes even D'Avin). DM has zero sense of fun and the only character who has any personality at all is Three so of course he's the resident asshole, which means I like him best. ;) And if there's been any layered world building on DM I must've blinked and missed it.

[miracole]

I watch both shows however haven't gotten a chance to watch last  weeks episode of Dark Matter, prolly won't get around to it before the new epi airs and I'm not really worried about that.  I watched last weeks' Killjoys as soon as I could.

 

Dark Matter is boring. I want to like it but they keep spending too much time on the characters I don't care about.  And when they do  introduce something potentially interesting they just drop it.  Hello random dead boy anyone.

 

Killjoys is interesting, funny and action packed. Also I want to know more about every character they introduce whether it's a lead character or a side character. 

Edited July 17, 2015 by miracole

[Chaos Theory]

Yes the world Killjoys created is interesting but the characters aren't. I feel zero attachment to any of the main cast and that is a problem. The show could replace all three of them and it wouldn't make a difference to me. Honestly I think I might enjoy it. Cool world building only gets you so far when you have no interesting characters.

Dark Matter started with interesting characters and is building a world as they go. Micro instead of Macro. As each character learns more about themselves we learn more about the world they live in. It works for me because I get attached to the characters and the world they live in.

[Mars477]

In what universe are the characters in Dark Matter "interesting"?  They are entirely a bunch of ciphers and well worn archetypes, and it's only 6 episodes in that they've actually made some headway in developing them.  Hell, even after Episode 6 the characters remain archetypes rather than people.  Couple that non-existent worldbuilding and that makes for a very poor show.

 

Dutch, Johnny, and D'avin are actually interesting and well developed, with interesting unresolved issues that make for good serial fodder.  Not to mention that they're actually fun to be around, which helps a lot.

[zxy556575]

I feel that the characters of KJ is predicable and mostly bland except Johnny for the most part. I don't feel as if there is going to be any surprises about the cast. The universe feels like they threw in bits and pieces from other shows. I'm not saying DM is great but so far I am more entertained by it.

 

For me, KJ could be any episodic crime show with the addition of grunting fight scenes and bad lighting. I'm not all that interested in any of the three leads or their insouciant brand of snark. On the other hand, I'm really enjoying unpacking Dark Matter.

 

Pretty soon there'll be a Facebook quiz -- Which KJ or DM character are you? -- and we can figure it all out. ;)

[Raja]

This seems like a DC vs. Marvel debate. For the record Teams Marvel and Dark Matters here.

[MissLucas]

*small voice* I like both shows and don't see any need for a smackdown *tiptoes out of discussion*

[sjohnson]

I watched The Messengers on broadcast, then fell asleep during the late night repeat of Killjoys. But I saw enough of the end to wonder if maybe the leads would basically stop being RAC agents. I guess they're too pretty to die of hunger, so they don't need the bounties. They can still look cool why they do something more interesting than serving warrants.

[DEM]

I have a strange, split reaction.  Every week I look forward to Dark Matter more, but find Killjoys the all-around better show.  I don't know quite how to explain it.

 

However, after this week (Killjoys 1x05 and Dark Matter 1x06), Killjoys may be taking the lead.  Dark Matter is becoming too trope-laden, and it can't seem decide whether it wants to be 'dark and gritty' or 'family-friendly'.

Edited July 19, 2015 by DEM

[FurryFury]

Every week I look forward to Dark Matter more, but find Killjoys the all-around better show.  I don't know quite how to explain it.

 

That's because Dark Matters has a cool premise with a mystery which you can't help but want to solve. KIlljoy doesn't have a similar impetus to watch. I feel the same as you, but by now it's clear that KJ is much more competently done show.

[Raja]

That's because Dark Matters has a cool premise with a mystery which you can't help but want to solve. KIlljoy doesn't have a similar impetus to watch. I feel the same as you, but by now it's clear that KJ is much more competently done show.

So taken to another generation it would be like comparing Space 1999 to Blake's 7

[Mars477]

That's because Dark Matters has a cool premise with a mystery which you can't help but want to solve. KIlljoy doesn't have a similar impetus to watch. I feel the same as you, but by now it's clear that KJ is much more competently done show.

Honestly I've been far more interested in Dutch's papa assassin problems than any of Dark Matter's "mysteries". Maybe it's because secret assassin cults just click with me, or it takes me caring about a character to care about a mystery surrounding that character.

[FurryFury]

I dunno, it's far from my favorite element of the show, to be honest. I'm a bit more interested in why D'avin killed his squad. But it's early yet, so I hope I'll become more interested in the assassin stuff.

[Tigris Tv]

I've watched every episode of Killjoys straight through so far, but Dark Matters after the first couple episodes I've had to jump forward through.  I like the lightness of the Killjoys and the personalities of the characters.  Dark Matters has so many characters, and so much story to express that I think personalities and light interactions are sacrificed because of it.  So I'd like to know what happens in Dark Matter, but I can get that from reading a recap.  In Killjoys I want to see what happens, because often the entertainment is in how it actually plays out rather than what the story is.

[Wynterwolf]

I am still enjoying both shows, but the difference for me is that I love the whole package that is Killjoys (so long as they step very lightly with the Dutch/D'av stuff and that they ultimately decide it's a BAD IDEA.  I don't mind them exploring it, but just don't go there for anything other than a brief - VERY brief - flirtation), but on Dark Matter, I'm only interested in individual characters/actors/stories and I'm fast forwarding through stuff because I don't want to sit through it to get to parts I'm enjoying.  Thank goodness for DVRs!    .  

[zxy556575]

*small voice* I like both shows and don't see any need for a smackdown *tiptoes out of discussion*

 

I enjoy both as well, but for now -- which could change week to week -- I'm more intrigued by Dark Matter.

[cynic]

I fell in love with Killjoys instantly. There's just something insanely appealing about it, even if the execution could be better. I love Dutch/John, the world building, and the lightness/humor. Plus, like Mars477, I'm a sucker for secret assassin organizations. (RIP Nikita)

I found the first two Dark Matters episodes insanely boring, but it's growing on me. It's a bit too full of cliches and stereotypes and the world building is almost non-existent, but I'm kinda intrigued by the doppelganger/multiverse thing. Plus, I like Two and the others are coming along.(Except for the Android. The Android needs to be airlocked tout suite.) Now, if only they can avoid giant clunker episodes like last week's space zombie dumbness, I can start watching this with my finger off the fast forward button.

Edited July 19, 2015 by cynic

[Snarkette]

 

(Except for the Android. The Android needs to be airlocked tout suite.)

I actually liked her on that show about the coast guard. It must be something about SciFi/Fantasy roles that makes me hate her characters. Everytime that damned android speaks, I want to claw out my ears

[xfuse]

I find it confusing that DM is called out for cliches and stereotypes when Dutch and D’Avin are actually.

 

Orphan Child taken in by a secret organization.
Taught to kill.
She probably enjoys it for a while and then something happened for her to see the light.
She runs away.
She gets found.
She gets blackmailed to go back or start killing again because of someone she loves.
Someone she loves finds out and they figure out a plan to get her free.

 

Solider experimented on.
Soldier is special.
Soldier does something terrible.
Soldier looks for someone to ‘fix’ him.
Soldier finds out that he can’t be fixed.
Soldier accepts it and it’s rarely mentioned again.

 

I like both shows. I will watch both shows. I can ignore what I dislike about both of them because it’s two sci-fi shows that I didn’t have a few months again.

[cynic]

Well, I would argue that Dutch is a little more interesting considering she's apparently also likely of royal blood (though probably illegitimate) and that she chose to join to this right-wing, psuedo-police organization, in addition to her secret assassin orphan past.

D'avin, admittedly, seems to be a standard PTSD soldier type so far, at least until we find out what happened to make him kill his squad and stuff.

Still, at least it took you a few lines to describe them, especially Dutch.,

Dark Matters made their Asian guy a samurai...a space samurai. Oh okay, we now know that he's actually an imperial prince with a back story out of the Lion King. But seriously, the show is set in space, in a galaxy far, far, away. They gave the Asian guy samurai swords, set his memories apparently in feudal Japan, made him all stoic, and gave him lines about honorable deaths. Seriously. One of the white guys (I'm guessing 3 for the ironic twist!), grew up on an idyllic farm, probably in the vicinity of space Kansas. Five is an orphan, not the grew up in a royal harem and joined a cult of assassins kind, but a plucky Oliver Twist kind of orphan, artfully dodging her way around until she ended up with these folks. At this rate, I'm just shocked that Six didn't grow up poor in a space version of Compton, joined a gang, ultimately regretted his choices, and is now trying to make up for his life of crime.

I actually liked her on that show about the coast guard. It must be something about SciFi/Fantasy roles that makes me hate her characters. Everytime that damned android speaks, I want to claw out my ears

Zoie Palmer does have the most insipid voice, doesn't she? At least she's supposed to be blank faced in this role unlike on Lost Girl, but her voice just ruins it. Edited July 19, 2015 by cynic

[Mars477]

Eh, the thing about Dutch being derivative of other works is that it's really hard to pin down where she's being derived from. The original Dune books have the feudal trappings in a sci fi setting but I don't remember any noble blooded assassin cults. Warhammer 40k is the next thing that comes to mind, but only vaguely. Still, any character can be made to sound cliche if you're that reductive.

Still, it's a lot harder to describe Dutch and D'avin than all of the Dark Matter cast. One IS the Nice Guy, Two IS Kickass Hot Chick, Three IS Asshole in Space. Those are literally the only things we know about their characters.

Four remains a Inscrutable Asian Martial Arts Badass... With Royal Blood Whose Wicked Stepmother Framed For Murder Of His King/Father. And he's a a Space Samurai. So, he's a racial stereotype cast in the role of a Gail Z Martin character. You don't get more derivative than that.

[Garnett7]

I like both shows but I definitely think "Killjoys" is the best. It's better written, more well-rounded and just all around more fun.

 

The Android on DM is my biggest gripe about that show and the one thing that keeps taking me out of scenes. The performance is horrible, IMO. I feel like there's an irritating, peppy cheerleader in there just dying to break free. She needs to watch "Humans" and take pointers.

[xfuse]

 

Still, at least it took you a few lines to describe them, especially Dutch.,

But those lines I could have written after the first ep. Anytime that I can basically write the entire character arc after only one ep than I get very bored of them very quickly. I'm already bored of Dutch and D'Avin. There is no surprise or suspense. I want to be entertained. The only things that I depend on to entertain me is Johnny and maybe the story of the week. 

 

I don't know the character's story for DM except Four because that was given mainly the last ep. There was a little bit on Five and Six but we still don't know what made them run away or be a terrorist. There is more to surprise or entertain me.

 

 

Still, it's a lot harder to describe Dutch and D'avin than all of the Dark Matter cast.

For me knowing just about everything about a character is season five not season one. For the first season I don't want to know everything about a character on a character driven show.

[Mars477]

For me knowing just about everything about a character is season five not season one. For the first season I don't want to know everything about a character on a character driven show.

I don't think that works, but still, what matters is that the character exists as something that could conceivably be a person rather than thinly drawn archetype.  For all the problems I have with Four the show gave a decent set up to what is a horribly derivative character, but at least he has motivations and... things.  

 

Actually, there's the thing:  Dutch, Johnny, and D'avin all have motivations and wants.  Dutch wants to remain free and not be drawn back into her wretched past.  Johnny wants to preserve the good thing he's got going on with his awesome sister-from-another-mother and his sexy spaceship, and also to not get overshadowed (again) by his alpha male Golden Son of a brother.  D'avin wants to unfuck his brain.  Given those wants, they need to do X, Y, and Z (and that is our show).

 

The Dark Matter crew, except for maybe Five, has no motivations or wants.  They are shallow imitations of humanity.  

 

Think about it this way: think about legitimate, critically acclaimed character focused TV shows.  Breaking Bad, Justified, even Homeland, to a point.  Those characters have personalities, backstories, and motivations.  They have wants and needs.  Your assertion that in a character driven show you know nothing about a character at first and then slowly learn more and more about them is completely false.  I don't know any character driven show where that actually applies.  Because for a character driven show you need to have characters, and Dark Matter doesn't have any.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Mars477

[xfuse]

 

The Dark Matter crew, except for maybe Five, has no motivations or wants.  They are shallow imitations of humanity.

Their wants and motivations will come in future eps. I don’t want to know everything the first few eps. I watch to be entertained. If I knew everything I wouldn’t be.

 

My problem with KJ is that two of the three main characters are such a stereotype that nearly everything about them was given away to the audience in the first ep. They could have held things back.

 

 

Think about it this way: think about legitimate, critically acclaimed character focused TV shows.  Breaking Bad, Justified, even Homeland, to a point.  Those characters have personalities, backstories, and motivations.

A good character is not about knowing just about everything about someone right away. The personalities, backstories and motivations weren’t all shown in the first ep. It was given time to develop.

 

 

Your assertion that in a character driven show you know nothing about a character at first and then slowly learn more and more about them is completely false.

I did not assert that a character driven show you know nothing about a character at first. I just don't think that you need to know or guess everything about them in the first ep.  When a show is about characters (not about plot of the week) than they can't just give me a stereotypical character where in the first  ep I can guess their entire storyline is going to be. Their job is to entertain me and keep me interested.

 

I know why all the eps feels like filler eps to me. There are no ‘what’ moments. Nothing is a revelation or a surprise. No suspense. I still like Johnny. I still want to see his story so I will continue to watch.

[Human]

Despite some tropey characterization, Killjoys so far is miles better than Dark Matter.  Dark Matter's premise is better, in my opinion, but they are failing in telling the story.  We are still pretty much where we started in the pilot, movement is s-l-o-w.  With Killjoys, I don't care for the premise, case of the week tends to make me yawn.  But there's an overarching seasonal plot going on in the background, with character development and worldbuilding happening in the foreground.  It may not be the most exciting thing, but at least there is movement in this show.  

 

However, I'm not sure how it stacks up if it were being compared with a better show.  Against Firefly, of course Killjoys fails pretty hard.  It does ok against Defiance.  Next to Dark Matter, it's like a bright shiny gold star.  

[Mars477]

Their wants and motivations will come in future eps. I don’t want to know everything the first few eps. I watch to be entertained. If I knew everything I wouldn’t be.

 

My problem with KJ is that two of the three main characters are such a stereotype that nearly everything about them was given away to the audience in the first ep. They could have held things back.

 

A good character is not about knowing just about everything about someone right away. The personalities, backstories and motivations weren’t all shown in the first ep. It was given time to develop.

 

I did not assert that a character driven show you know nothing about a character at first. I just don't think that you need to know or guess everything about them in the first ep.  When a show is about characters (not about plot of the week) than they can't just give me a stereotypical character where in the first  ep I can guess their entire storyline is going to be. Their job is to entertain me and keep me interested.

 

I know why all the eps feels like filler eps to me. There are no ‘what’ moments. Nothing is a revelation or a surprise. No suspense. I still like Johnny. I still want to see his story so I will continue to watch.

If a character's personality takes multiple seasons to manifest then that's a failure of characterization.  Likewise with motivations or backstory.  Different parts of the character's backstory can be revisited in detail at later points, but the basics should still be there early on.  Likewise with motivations.  If Stoic Hot Chick Cop has been fighting crime for X number of seasons and then all of a sudden it's revealed that their family member's death was their primary motivation for solving crime, then that's a retcon and a failure in characterization.  The basics need to be there at the start, and then personality and motivation can change, due to character development, or backstory and motivation can be detailed on.

 

And even amnesiacs need wants and motivations to begin with.  Jason Bourne had them, and acted on them.  The crew of Dark Matter should have motivations, but instead they're just floating around pointlessly from place to place.

[Chaos Theory]

For me Killjoys is trying to hard to be clever.

I don't mind when shows write into tropy characteristics. For me what I love about Dark Matter is you are learning about who these people are as they are. Yes the show started off with broad strokes but as each episode passes the show colors in the lines more.

And I am a Zoie Palmer fan. I love the android. I think she brings the right kind of humor and childlikeness to the character.

Killjoys tries to be clever but it is rather predictable. The last two episodes barely kept my attention. last episodes wasn't paying attention at all until they stared torturing d'avan. Then I kinda enjoyed. Partly because I was hoot the show would kill the character but mostly because for the first time I found him....not annoying.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[sjohnson]

Dutch, Johnny, and D'avin all have motivations and wants.  Dutch wants to remain free and not be drawn back into her wretched past.  Johnny wants to preserve the good thing he's got going on with his awesome sister-from-another-mother and his sexy spaceship, and also to not get overshadowed (again) by his alpha male Golden Son of a brother.  D'avin wants to unfuck his brain.  Given those wants, they need to do X, Y, and Z (and that is our show).

 

The Dark Matter crew, except for maybe Five, has no motivations or wants.  They are shallow imitations of humanity.  

 

 

If Dutch doesn't want to be an assassin for hire, why is she a Killjoy? Yes, the show has set it up for that to be her want, but it's BS. RAC is her being a thug for hire. That's not fundamentally different from being a thug for Daddy. None of the so-called world-building has changed that. If she gets what she wants, she will just be executing warrants, because "the warrant is all." 

 

If Johnny just wants to keep what he has, by definition he is a character who doesn't want to change. Further, the show's insistence that he's motivated by sibling rivalry means he's not a very adult character, except of course the show is also insisting he's a really cool dude. And if he gets what he wants he will still be executing warrants, because "the warrant is all." 

 

D'Avin is the closest to an interesting character. But he's a Killjoy on a show called Killjoys and what he wants has nothing to do with being a Killjoy. And there is no reasonable way to expect being a Killjoy to help him find out what happened. Does he even belong on the show? And can his brother who only wants to be a Killjoy and win the sibling rivalry be anything other than an obstacle?  To top it off, the revelations on his backstory are coming about as slowly as those on Dark Matters. The hints so far are that he will come to terms with Johnny and hook up with Dutch and execute warrants, because "the warrant is all." 

 

None of the so-called world-building leads us to think "the warrant is all." 

 

The characters on Dark Matter want to know who they are. What they do as they find out their back stories, and what they choose to do when they succeed will tell us who they are. That was incidentally Jason Bourne's motivation, except with personal jeopardy added. The crew of the Raza is spending a lot of time worrying about money and repairs and money and supplies and friends and money. I know none of this is cool, but it makes them, blank slates as they are even to themselves, feel real in a way the "warrant is all" Killjoys don't.

 

To put it another way, the Killjoys characters are bigger than life, more colorful, less tied to their fictional reality, cooler, simpler. That can be more entertaining if that's your taste, but it's not in depth characterization. 

[Mars477]

Dutch is a bounty hunter and soldier for hire, but the pilot makes a point that she never takes Level 5 contracts which are explicitly kill warrants.  There's a distinction between enemy combatants and potentially civilian targets to be killed in cold blood.  She's also gone out of her way on multiple occasions to avoid unnecessary bloodshed.  So, not really inconsistent characterization.

[miracole]

 

but it makes them, blank slates as they are even to themselves

Unfortunately what it's makes them is boring. The idea behind the show is interesting but unfortunately the execution and storytelling isn't living up to the premise. They are too many episodes in to still be so stale. I want to like this show and I do like Six and Four however everything else not so much. This is a show that should be completely character driven but isn't at all. It's suffering from being so paint by numbers. Paint by numbers isn't always a bad thing but if it's not done very well it falls flat. While having their backstories revealed is important the fact that they are blank slates who have to all work together to survive should bring about some interesting situations and character points and it has to some extent but not enough in my opinion.  Hopefully it'll pick up soon because I like having good scifi shows to watch.

 

Killjoys is fun to watch.  The characters are interesting whether you're learning about their backstory or they're dealing with the problem of the week. Also Dutch air locked herself and lived to tell the tale.*D'avin style*  How can you not love this show? !*D'avin style*

[Mars477]

Episode 7 of 13 of Dark Matter is spent telling us that maybe Three isn't a total douchey asshole. He actually can love!

I mean, okay? Who gives a fuck? You don't get credit for giving a shade of personality to a previously one note character. You certainly don't need an entire episode for that. And, as always, the show kicks the proverbial can down the road on actually giving him a backstory. The sum total of what we know about Three after his focal episode is that he's still an asshole, but he still managed to find a woman to love sometime in the vague past. And he also has a vaguely defined secret that won't be addressed just yet.

Compare Fancy of Killjoys, the RAC's self proclaimed designated asshole. In only two episodes the show invested him with more depth than Three has gotten in seven. This is man who chooses to stand apart from his fellows because he considers the role that he plays a critical one. And you really can only see his actions at the end of the episode as an act of mercy.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Mars477

[Ariah]

Having watched the last episode of Dark Matter I can't shake the feeling that if KillJoys were written by Dark Matter writers, Johnny would create a synth body for Lucy, (preferably played by some SG or Andromeda alum), download her and have sex with her. And it would be played as a comedy relief, with no questions about free will and slavery asked.

[Ariah]

Just putting this poll out here, for all you KillJoys fans...

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/08/usd-poll-which-tv-show-is-better-dark.html

[Janimo]

Thanks for that link, Ariah. I voted for Killjoys, but Dark Matter is leading 219-200 so far in the poll.

 

I find Dark Matter very boring...and am much more entertained by Killjoys and it's fast pace....not to mention fewer "lead" characters.
But....that's just my two cents.

[MzLiz]

Oops wrong topic

Edited December 15, 2015 by MzLiz

[AnnaMayWong]

Well, I would argue that Dutch is a little more interesting considering she's apparently also likely of royal blood (though probably illegitimate) and that she chose to join to this right-wing, psuedo-police organization, in addition to her secret assassin orphan past.

D'avin, admittedly, seems to be a standard PTSD soldier type so far, at least until we find out what happened to make him kill his squad and stuff.

Still, at least it took you a few lines to describe them, especially Dutch.,

Dark Matters made their Asian guy a samurai...a space samurai. Oh okay, we now know that he's actually an imperial prince with a back story out of the Lion King. But seriously, the show is set in space, in a galaxy far, far, away. They gave the Asian guy samurai swords, set his memories apparently in feudal Japan, made him all stoic, and gave him lines about honorable deaths. Seriously. One of the white guys (I'm guessing 3 for the ironic twist!), grew up on an idyllic farm, probably in the vicinity of space Kansas. Five is an orphan, not the grew up in a royal harem and joined a cult of assassins kind, but a plucky Oliver Twist kind of orphan, artfully dodging her way around until she ended up with these folks. At this rate, I'm just shocked that Six didn't grow up poor in a space version of Compton, joined a gang, ultimately regretted his choices, and is now trying to make up for his life of crime.

Zoie Palmer does have the most insipid voice, doesn't she? At least she's supposed to be blank faced in this role unlike on Lost Girl, but her voice just ruins it.

Geez! Haha! Luv it!

I enjoy both programs AND have earnest hesitations about each of them. So,...

[wanderingstar]

Fascinated to see the differing opinions on these two shows. I mean, from the time they started showing promos for both, I've always thought they were the same show (i.e., pretty badasses having adventures in a dystopian space milieu). When they premiered last summer, I tried watching both and ended up sticking with Dark Matter (I think the mystery component was what hooked me). Now I am watching S1 of Killjoys, and I still think they're pretty much the same show, with slight variations. I like them both, but yeah...same show.

Quote

Dark Matter started with interesting characters and is building a world as they go. Micro instead of Macro. As each character learns more about themselves we learn more about the world they live in. It works for me because I get attached to the characters and the world they live in.

Yeah, I can see this. Different approaches to world building, and (having seen all of DM and half of KJ now), they each work in their different ways. On DM, I liked that we were discovering the world at the same time as the crew of the Raza. But on KJ, I liked that they dropped us into the world of the Quad and gave us explanations on the fly, assuming we viewers could follow along. I think both shows have done a good job with their world building.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm not here to 'smack down' either show - both have good and bad parts to them.....

.... but have you ever noticed how the two really reflect similar plots and subplots sometimes, sometimes on the very same night?

•  There was a reference to a possible war on Killjoys [2.4], and then "a war is coming" on Dark Matter [2.4]
•  Pawter is (was?) hooked on a drug & has shaky hands while withdrawing on Killjoys [1.8], and now we find out the new doctor character on Dark Matter [2.4] is a drug addict with shaky hands as well.

There's been other mirrored instances before, those two stand out the most because they literally just happened on one or both shows.

[sjohnson]

Both are intentionally derivative from older TV. I seem to remember old western docs with the shakes trying to save patients in the classic westerns of my youth.