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OriginalCyn
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21 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Maybe TPTB will finally do something about backloading/frontloading.  They need to show a balanced program. That's what figure skating is all about--athleticism and artistry (or, preparation for all the shows figure skaters would move on to after competition).  I still hope Alina will find another coach.  Eteri was shown chatting with someone while Alina was making her final end of program pose.  And Bradie?  Please, please, please get thee to Lori Nichols.

And if my eyes weren’t mistaken she almost looked to have had a smirk while talking that guy, who I’m assuming is a coach on Alina’s team since he was in the K&C with her and Alina.

I’m okay with the bonus offered after the 2 minute mark, but maybe they should limit the number of jumping passes after that point in the free program?  Skaters would then not backload their programs but we’d see everyone doing their most difficult jumping passes after the 2 minute mark which we are already seeing.

 Though I’m not sure about this type of rule either. It would seem like the ISU was exerting way too much control over the programs. 

Edited by Enero
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11 minutes ago, Enero said:

And if my eyes weren’t mistaken she almost looked to have had a smirk while talking that guy, who I’m assuming is a coach on Alina’s team since he was in the K&C with her and Alina.

 

ENERO:  I can't believe you said that.  I almost thought I was imagining it. But that's what I, too, saw from the side of her face as she was chatting with that guy.  It def was a smirk or a relaxed smile which most coaches certainly would not have on their faces after a devastating program like Alina's. Once again...I hope Alina or her parents noticed these things and will get her away from this creep.

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2 hours ago, sweeks said:

Thank you to everyone who commented and recapped that Hubbell and Donahue interview. I can't even bring myself to read it because of the tone I got from the quotes included in the posts. The  petty part of me hopes they fall (preferably numerous times) while C/B, C/L, and Weaver/Poje skate lights out in the free dance. I honestly don't care who gets a medal as long as H/D don't get one because I'm over the bitchy entitlement. 

 

Unfortunately, they broke the 80 point mark in the short, which will swell their already overly inflated egos. Ugh. Are they really going to end up with a silver medal? I think it might be the first time that I've ever rooted AGAINST skaters from the U.S.  I don't want them to fail, I just want to see them taken down a peg. I guess the Olympic stumble didn't do that. 

 

I had to laugh at Tanith saying that she enjoyed P/C's short dance more today than their Olympic short dance. Ummm....maybe because Gabby wasn't losing her costume today? She was a bit more relaxed?  At the Olympics, they were skating knowing that a nip slip could happen at any moment. Might explain a tight performance? 

 

Is Mirai done, now? She was tearful as she left the ice today. The kind of tearful that happens when you know that you're probably never going to do this again. 

 

I seriously hope that the male coach in the Kiss and Cry with Zagitova is a buffer between Alina and the wrath of Eteri. I can't even begin to express my loathing for that woman. 

 

I think that I figured it out with Miyahara. She seems like the sweetest person on earth, but when she skates, my mind wanders. I get a little bored. Maybe it's because her jumps are about two inches off the ice? I don't know. 

 

I'd be happy with a rule requiring a BALANCED program. Keep the second half bonus. Put more difficult jumps then, if you choose. But, If you do not have the same amount of jumping passes in the first half, as the second half of a program, it's a one point deduction.  Just like the one point deduction that they give ice dancers for extended lifts. You don't have to fall on your ass to get it. 

 

Yes, Bradie. Please see Lori Nichol. The arms! Oy!  

 

Oh my. Kaetlyn tripped and fell on the ice and got tangled up in her flag after the medal ceremony! At least she laughed it off. 

Edited by ChicksDigScars
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So, no lie, I totally cried for/ with Wakaba Higuchi. That was a stunning performance and the highlight of women’s skating for me (Sorry, Canadian friends, I am happy for Kaetlyn Osmond—she’s not like Madison Hubbell* where I’m hate-watching and wishing for her to fall or anything—Kaetlyn seems lovely and there’s nothing she does that I actively dislike—but her skating just does nothing for me, positive or negative), and just seeing all of that understandable and deserved emotion pour out of WH when she’d finished undid me, too.

Even then, I bet it never occurred to her that she’d be chilling in the top-trio-mindfuck couch for the rest of the night!

 

On the other hand, I had to watch Bradie through my fingers because I had secondhand embarrassment over watching Disney on Ice. I kept expecting to have all of the plushie-picker-upper kids join her on the ice after the post-clock music change, where they’d have turned into magical little skating-in-plush-costumed birds and squirrels and the rest of forest menagerie for the big ensemble finish. (This would only be bettered by her starting out in a costume made of rags and then, through the tick-tocking, she did an on-ice quickchange into that costume she bought at Disney World. My four-year-old niece has a crap ton of Disney princess dresses, and I think she has Bradie’s exact costume). 

On the plus side, watching with my arms up and most of my fingers together gave me better hand/arm position than Bradie. 

 

*Speaking of, I spent H/D’s entire short program wanting to slap the look off her face because it seemed so overwrought act-y and unnatural, and then she put it into better words than I when she got off the ice and proudly told her coaches, while motioning to her face, (something like) “I tried to keep that Tessa/Scott focus.”

Like, they’d been actively working on imitating V/M’s creepy facials, which always seem rehearsed and unnatural to me anyway but I get that that’s part of their “thing” (and at least goes with their whole style, even if it feels forced to me), so she and Zach were basically coached to mimic not-great-face-acting-in-the-first-place. It’s like when a bad director tells someone how to say a line, wanting them to mimic their exact tone, inflection, etc., rather than coaching them toward doing it better from their own place, authentically.

I had been trying to push aside my dislike for how she presents herself as a person off the ice to try to enjoy/get her(their) skating, ‘cause I really figured it was just my gut-instinct reaction from how much they rub me the wrong way that was making me dislike their performance—now, even more than previously—but she herself told me why her on-ice persona annoyed me as much as her off-ice one, so now I for real don’t feel bad for hoping they’ll get knocked off the podium along with their high horse (with C/B preferably taking a spot, but I’m not picky; I’d go for any three from anywhere than see them get a medal).

Fuck, if Eteri wants to go put on Papadakis’s busted halter with the bottom half of that ...thing... that Chock wears and spin in some circles with the guy she was talking to with her back to the rink while poor Alina was skating, I’d rather see them on the podium! (Btw, since it’s not the Olympics, are they considered real Russians still again?)

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1 minute ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Unfortunately, they broke the 80 point mark in the short, which will swell their already overly inflated egos. Ugh. Are they really going to end up with a silver medal? I think it might be the first time that I've ever rooted AGAINST skaters from the U.S.  I don't want them to fail, I just want to see them taken down a peg. I guess the Olympic stumble didn't do that. 

They do have a tendency to choke in the free dance (the exception being nationals this year), so I'm hoping that their nerves/ cockiness gets them. Like Chicksdigscars, it's the first time I've actively rooted against a skater from the U.S., but I just can't with the two of them. The overwrought expressions also annoy me to no end.

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Just watched Zag's free skate. Poor kid!!! I felt horrible for her. When she melted tearfully into Eteri's arms as she came off the ice, you knew it had nothing to do with a medal--she just wanted to do her best. Poor kid. I hope she's not injured and hiding it, three falls is not a fluke.

You're still great, Zag! Don't let this get to you, you're still the OGM.

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2 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I hope she's not injured and hiding it, three falls is not a fluke.

Kurt Browning on the news was commenting that all three of the falls had the same error in terms of form, which he attributes to exhaustion.

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11 minutes ago, sweeks said:

They do have a tendency to choke in the free dance (the exception being nationals this year), so I'm hoping that their nerves/ cockiness gets them. Like Chicksdigscars, it's the first time I've actively rooted against a skater from the U.S., but I just can't with the two of them. The overwrought expressions also annoy me to no end.

Thank God it's not just me. I feel so guilty about this (and worried that hoping for a slip up--and off the podium! will bring bad karma to one of my favorite skaters).  I haven't really so disliked a skater(s) since Tonya H (altho' Scott M. really tested me).  Americans are going to be stuck with these two prima donnas for a long time, unfortunately.

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More than anything this season, I’m just bored of Hubbell and Donohue’s programs. They’re both so stylistically similar, I feel like I’m just watching a longer version of the short dance when I see their free. I enjoy the music cuts they use in the free, but I wish they had used a program like this in another season with a different short dance theme. 

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56 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Apparently Gabby was skating with a sprained ankle from practice this morning.  With that in mind, that was a bravura performance.

Oh shit....no.  You mean Gabby Papadakis, not Gabby Daleman, right? 

 

What if that sucker swells overnight?

 

What if they...gulp...WITHDRAW. 

 

You know what that means. World Champions Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donahue?!!  Apologies for these thoughts....

 

 

head exploding.jpg

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I like the way the ladies podium ended up.  Mirai and the underrotations--how I wish that she had been able to get that problem worked out.  I'm glad she pulled off a skate with no falls.

As has been mentioned above, I also would like to see Bradie work with Lori Nichol.  I hope she can build on her success this season and come out next season with stronger programs and presentation.

Please, ISU, for next season ditch the excessive backloading and tanos!

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23 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Oh shit....no.  You mean Gabby Papadakis, not Gabby Daleman, right? 

No, Gabby Daleman.

Rest assured, the WC title is safe from Hubbell and Donohue.

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2 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Just watched Zag's free skate. Poor kid!!! I felt horrible for her. When she melted tearfully into Eteri's arms as she came off the ice, you knew it had nothing to do with a medal--she just wanted to do her best. Poor kid. I hope she's not injured and hiding it, three falls is not a fluke.

You're still great, Zag! Don't let this get to you, you're still the OGM.

I'm actually kind of glad Zag had that free skate. Don't get me wrong it's not fun to see any skater melt down like that and her tears were not easy to watch. But the total lack of empathy her coach showed, the fact that she was breezily chatting by the boards while her skater was having a nightmare skate, and having watched all those YT videos of the harshness of Alina's daily life, I kind of hope this bad skate will make her realize that It Doesn't Have to Be Like This. That she's a gorgeous talented 15 year old and she can do so many things, skating and non-skating related. #FreeAlina.

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Zach's comments are really not that bad. I'm going to give him the benefit of doubt and assume he meant them more tongue in cheek. I get that everyone likes the Shibs, but you'd think he killed someone's puppy, with the reaction in here. 

 

2 hours ago, methadonna said:

“I tried to keep that Tessa/Scott focus.”

 

Focus, not performance. And they'll need that focus if they want to keep their spot and challenge for the podium next season.

 

Osmond aside, that last flight was horrifying to watch. Kudos to Kaetlyn, she deserves her placement and medal here. Wakaba had the performance of the night for me though. I think, had she skated in the last group, her PCS would have been higher. It's really nice to see her and Satoko medal. 

I thought Mirai was low-balled on the PCS, but I knew it was coming. 

It's been a long season and this was only her first year in seniors, Zag will hopefully brush this off. 

 

I'm cherishing this podium. It might be the oldest we have in a while.

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8 hours ago, fan94 said:

@herbz What are these Ice Dance protocols? XDD

 

Sure, P/C are totally better than V/M at latin.

 

Also, did you see this?  

 

 

The ice dance protocols were absurd, but it was clear from Group 2 that they were going to be absurd. 

I need to watch that meeting. Anything interesting? I'm curious to see if they can clear up the confusion over the some of the new scoring proposals. Everyone I've spoken to loathes the idea of a subjective entertainment score. 

I read on another forum that the 2019/20 SD or Rhythm Dance or whatever is Musical/Operetta/Broadway which aren't exactly rhythms as such. I also read that there's no pattern dance requirement that year which I am fiercely opposed to considering I want compulsories back. The last thing ice dance needs right now is to dumb down the technical requirements of programs. 

* Going back to earlier discussions, I think Donohue's comments were misguided at best. But H/D, when they get it together and you focus on what the blades are doing rather than the faces or anything (because obviously there is a performance component but FS should never be judged overall upon the 'acting') are excellent skaters and pretty much the only hope for any sort of real competition in Ice Dance over the next 4 years. They should have been closer to P/C. I dislike processions. So for that reason I will continue to pull for them to skate well. 

Edited by herbz
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Did anyone get a look at the final judges scores after the Women’s Long? I know Alina Zag fell three times, but she was given -4.00 (3) for falls. Can anyone explain to me where that additional point deduction came from? I kept looking at the scores and couldn’t figure it out. Thanks. 

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14 minutes ago, Spiderella2 said:

Did anyone get a look at the final judges scores after the Women’s Long? I know Alina Zag fell three times, but she was given -4.00 (3) for falls. Can anyone explain to me where that additional point deduction came from? I kept looking at the scores and couldn’t figure it out. Thanks. 

A few seasons back, they changed the point deduction for falls. It’s currently -1 for a first and second fall. If a skater falls a third time, it’s -2 (1 point for the fall and an additional -1 penalty for having so many falls). I believe every fall after the first 2 carries that additional -1 penalty. IIRC, the reason it was instituted was to discourage skaters from multiple attempts at jumps they know they probably won’t land? Also, since it came after the 10% bonus for all jumps in the back half of a program was instituted, it might have also been a way to serve as a check for backloading—or at least make it more of a high risk/high reward thing. Sure, skaters were attempting 4 and 5 jumps after the halfway point, but so many resulted in falls or stumbling that it made for ugly-to-watch programs. 

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10 hours ago, PoshSprinkles said:

Or say the bonus only applies to the first three jumps attempted after that mark. Anything after that gets scored regularly.

Another option is just to mandate that 3 jumps must be performed in the second half. No bonus, just a requirement. 

I actually think the opposite would be better ie 3 jumping passes must be completed BEFORE the two minute mark. That would certainly go a long way in balancing the programs. There are some skaters that already do this and the overall layout of their programs are the better for it. 

Regarding the “free Alina” calls, would there be another viable coach she could go to in Russia? I know there are others but Eteri seems to be the only one coaching the top women in Russia and with that I’m sure comes an advantage within the Russian skating federation. Speaking of the federation, they’d never let Alina leave the country to be coached by someone else, especially now that she’s won the OGM. So again, I wonder how many options (if any) she’d have if she wants to continue skating but move on from Eteri. 

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Is Eteri really that abusive or is this all just speculation? She’s obv a great coach, she gets results.  I think it’s unrealistic to expect the same level of relationship with all her skaters. She seems like a very strict and demanding coach, akin to Frank Carroll. He is also stone cold when his skater does not deliver as expected. He didn’t even look at Gracie Gold in the K&C at 2017 Nationals. Frosty.

Medvedeva and her have a very special relationship, she has coached her since she was 6 years old. That is over a decade of developing a closeness. I think that is why they are both comfortable with each other and physically affectionate. Zag has only been with Eteri for a little over 2-3 years, and she is still developing that relationship. Eteri can’t be that horrible to Zag, after all she did coach her to an OGM, putting her personal affection for Med aside when it counted. 

Heres a video showing how close she is with her students. I think she has a different persona at the rink in practice than during competitions, when so much is at stake. 

 

1 hour ago, specialj67 said:

A few seasons back, they changed the point deduction for falls. It’s currently -1 for a first and second fall. If a skater falls a third time, it’s -2 (1 point for the fall and an additional -1 penalty for having so many falls). I believe every fall after the first 2 carries that additional -1 penalty. IIRC, the reason it was instituted was to discourage skaters from multiple attempts at jumps they know they probably won’t land? Also, since it came after the 10% bonus for all jumps in the back half of a program was instituted, it might have also been a way to serve as a check for backloading—or at least make it more of a high risk/high reward thing. Sure, skaters were attempting 4 and 5 jumps after the halfway point, but so many resulted in falls or stumbling that it made for ugly-to-watch programs. 

Thank you for that clarification. 

Edited by Spiderella2
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Everyone's exhausted. The turnaround between Olympics and Worlds is so tough. Shorts can be held together by adrenaline, but you can really see the fatigue here. I always question the need for a WC in an Olympic year tbh, it seems like an unnecessary injury risk. Some of these falls had me worried. 

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7 minutes ago, Tanichka said:

Missed the whole darn women’s, but good for Osmond. Will try & find the performance online.

I missed the women too. If you get the Olympic Channel there's a good chance that it will get replayed. 

Nathan!!! His ass didn't kiss the ice once! I kept saying out loud "Please don't fall! Please don't fall!. His coach was even grinning and did a little jig in the K&C. His coach either has oily skin or he had been sweating a bit because his skin was soooo shiny that I stopped to notice.

Edited by Jaded
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29 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

What is happening in the final group of guys today?! It’s even worse than the last flight of women yesterday. At this point, I just hope Nathan and Vincent stay upright.

Well, you got half of what you wished for.

Poor Vincent.

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After watching Nathan’s performance, I’m glad he won by skating relatively well (except for the step out on one jump late in the program) and not totally by virtue of making the fewest mistakes. He seemed to grit through a few of the landings but was able to pull through. 

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I think the step out was on the quad salchow? I'm glad he didn't flub the triple axel and actually upped his plan to the six quads.

The five, seven minute delay on Olympic Channel was pretty annoying. I ended up relying on Tweeters from Europe and Japan to get the jump results as they came in. Even Jackie Wong offered timely updates and he's supposedly on an iffy Wi-Fi connection at 30,000 feet.

 

50 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

What is happening in the final group of guys today?! It’s even worse than the last flight of women yesterday. At this point, I just hope Nathan and Vincent stay upright.

As Herbz pointed out, post-Olympic exhaustion and the resulting limited training time were the main factors. I'd throw in residual bad energy from the ladies event and lingering injuries that probably haven't been publicized. Shoma, for example, has reportedly been skating with a bum ankle, which would at least partially explain his three falls. And he still hung on for second. I don't know if this performance means Nathan's healed from whatever leg injury he had during the Olympics. We never heard about that or his virus until Raf alluded to it in that grumpy interview.

I feel for Vincent but great on Max Aaron to save three US spots in next year's Worlds.

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9 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I also think Hubbell/Donohue have been petty enough in the past that they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt on this.

 
 

Oh, I'm well aware that I'm choosing to give them the benefit of doubt here. In my view, we don't have the context of those comments. I'm choosing them to mean that they're being hard on their own skates, with some bad word choices.

But IMO, actively rooting for skaters to fall, while in the same breath complaining about their attitude, isn't something I understand. 

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I am catching up on all of the programs for this year's WC (glad that I finally found the Olympic Channel after the Olympics aired on my cable provider). 

So happy for the pairs team from France receiving a Bronze medal. Great that the German pair skaters who won their OGM got their WGM.

Almost done with watching the ladies free program. I think Bradie definitely needs to find a coach, trainer and choreographer that can help her transition from still skating like she is at the junior level. Alina is 15 years of age and she skates with more strength AND maturity than Bradie. 

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Poor Zag. The way she performed at the Olympics and was so fearless I didn't think she could ever have such a meltdown. Really a reminder that she's just a poor kid at the end of the day. That was brutal to watch.

Out of curiosity has Yuna, Med ever had a meltdown during their careers? I've only really watched the Olympics and Med's skating in clips so don't really know much about them in other competitions.

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4 hours ago, herbz said:

The ice dance protocols were absurd, but it was clear from Group 2 that they were going to be absurd. 

I need to watch that meeting. Anything interesting? I'm curious to see if they can clear up the confusion over the some of the new scoring proposals. Everyone I've spoken to loathes the idea of a subjective entertainment score. 

I read on another forum that the 2019/20 SD or Rhythm Dance or whatever is Musical/Operetta/Broadway which aren't exactly rhythms as such. I also read that there's no pattern dance requirement that year which I am fiercely opposed to considering I want compulsories back. The last thing ice dance needs right now is to dumb down the technical requirements of programs. 

* Going back to earlier discussions, I think Donohue's comments were misguided at best. But H/D, when they get it together and you focus on what the blades are doing rather than the faces or anything (because obviously there is a performance component but FS should never be judged overall upon the 'acting') are excellent skaters and pretty much the only hope for any sort of real competition in Ice Dance over the next 4 years. They should have been closer to P/C. I dislike processions. So for that reason I will continue to pull for them to skate well. 

 

Haven't watched it all yet, but have a summary, and I like the proposal of being given +4/+5 GOE if and only if you hit no negative GOE bullets.

 

Apparently free dance is themed? Not a fan.

Edited by fan94
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26 minutes ago, halopub said:

 

I feel for Vincent but great on Max Aaron to save three US spots in next year's Worlds.

Speaking of that, did our ladies performances only secure two spots for next year? 

It HAS to be exhaustion from the Olympics and Worlds so close together, expecially for the men. Quads. No one else is doing those kind of difficult jumps. And look at Zagitova with all of her jumping passes in the second half of the program. Exhaustion. Even your muscles say "ENOUGH."  

 

Me too, Vera. I've always loved C/L. They're adorable. Kinda the ANTI-Barbara Fusar Poli! As an Italian American, thank you for that, Anna and Luca! :)

Fusar-Poli could glare like my Aunt Nettie! Sends chills down my spine. 

Edited by ChicksDigScars
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7 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Me too, Vera. I've always loved C/L. They're adorable.

 

You can always trust Anna and Luca to bring the fun, whether in their competitive skates or their exhibitions. They enjoy performing and it shows! I'm going to miss them.

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15 minutes ago, Vera said:

Anna and Luca are retiring after today, so I really hope they have the skate of their lives here in front of home crowd. 

I'm going to miss them hugely. Wonderful team, fun programs. I don't believe they've always been rewarded appropriately for what they do. I too hope they kill it one last time. 

Edited by herbz
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NATHAN! Sigh, what the Olympics could have been.

Does anyone know if NBC or NBCSN is showing a recap this weekend? I had to miss all the live shows this week and would like to watch at least some of it. 

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Just now, Moxie Cat said:

NATHAN! Sigh, what the Olympics could have been.

Does anyone know if NBC or NBCSN is showing a recap this weekend? I had to miss all the live shows this week and would like to watch at least some of it. 

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@herbz If there's a theme for the FD, and if they pick "romantic"... That's sibling teams done for. Not a fan at all.

And the entertainment score is bogus. The Judges press "buttons" like "Yes", "no" and "partly". So we already know who gets what to begin with. 

 

Just think the original CD+OD+FD was great. Why'd they change? Easier to call bs for three separate ones? Too expensive after feds spend all money on their teams to win?

Edited by fan94
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2 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

NATHAN! Sigh, what the Olympics could have been.

Does anyone know if NBC or NBCSN is showing a recap this weekend? I had to miss all the live shows this week and would like to watch at least some of it. 

YouTube! That’s how I’ve seen everything this week.

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Congrats to Nathan!

I haven’t watched yet, but what the heck happened to Boyang? Will China even have a spot next year? I have a soft spot for him and was hoping he’d pull out the win.

Good for Shoma, Tanaka and Tomono, for holding on to three spots for Japan. 

Javi, Hanyu and even Chan looks to have been missed here. If any of these guys had showed and were even halfway skating to their talent, they would’ve easily won based on what I’m hearing about these performances.  

Edited by Enero
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