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Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

Zalyn

By Zalyn
in Arrow

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dtissagirl
dtissagirl

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

WindofChange
WindofChange

Oh wow, Emily. I'm impressed because this is really brave and I'm really proud that she said this in such an eloquent way.

dtissagirl
dtissagirl

Ha. Reading those stage directions, and realizing how EBR went the opposite way [curious and skeptic rather than faint by hot guy] makes me understand 100% how fucking lost they were at that time, and

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Why'd they name the show Arrow? That implies that it should mostly be about Arrow with supporting characters, like how it was on Buffy and Angel. They had a team but the show was still all about the title characters. Smallville could get around that being that Smallville was the name of the town not a person and anyone in that town could be featured. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Chasity

Chasity

Aaaand the post is gone. I wonder why SA deleted it; the comments didn't look too bad when I took a look.

 

For reference:

tumblr_ngewca80uU1s239dso1_1280.jpg

I'm looking at his facebook page now and this post is still on there. It's the first one I see. 

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blixie

blixie

(edited)

The bigger problem is if this show was always bigger than one character than it should have been established before now, and it shouldn't need to be proven only by exiting the one character. That is not actually proving they can juggle the supporting cast and give them good stuff whilst also staying Arrow driven.

Edited by blixie
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statsgirl

statsgirl

I think people will tune in to 3x10 to find out what happened to Oliver. It's 3x11 that they really need to worry about, when Oliver still isn't around and it's Insta Canary time.

 

 

I get why Stephen is doing this but I hate that he has to do it because the EPs want to push other vigilantes on us. If fans are having a meltdown about what happened it's because they don't want Oliver to be dead/absent. The show is called "Arrow" for a reason rather than "The Justice League".

I get the feeling it's more "we want to do Batman and we want to play around with different things each year so here, this is what we're trying out season 3 and hey, incidentally doesn't it make a great hole to showcase Laurel and Ray?"

 

The problem is that Laurel is the most polarizing of all the characters and viewers aren't invested in Ray enough to watch to see what happens with his new suit.

 

I think this show hasn't done justice to the supporting characters not named Laurel, but other shows were worse, House in particular.  At the end of their season 3, they decided to get rid of the two most popular supporting characters after Wilson and replaced them with three few people cared about.  Nothing the fans said made any difference, over two hundred signed rubber ducklings arriving at the station made no difference, and when people continued to complain and interviewers continued to question, the EP had hissy fits.  The more viewership went down, the more he held firm.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Why'd they name the show Arrow? That implies that it should mostly be about Arrow with supporting characters, like how it was on Buffy and Angel. They had a team but the show was still all about the title characters. Smallville could get around that being that Smallville was the name of the town not a person and anyone in that town could be featured. 

 

The Buffy/Angel example is one I think of often. I know there are people out there who watched those shows while hating the main character, and probably there were some people who said, "Just make the show about Willow!" or whatever, but I don't think it was a majority. I never really felt like the core supporting characters on those shows got the shaft. I felt like enough time was spent on them generally, and I understood that their primary function was to support the journey of the central character.

 

That's how I feel about Arrow. I'm here for Oliver's journey, and if these writers don't know how to properly develop and integrate other characters' journeys alongside or in support of Oliver's, that's on them. Viewers shouldn't be asked to be patient and sit through something we didn't sign up for, and honestly, a lot of casual viewers probably won't. And I feel kind of bad for Stephen, as usual, because I'm guessing he was either asked to take that post down because of the new party line that it's not a BC arc, or he took it down because he was getting some nasty feedback on it. I continue to appreciate the way he tirelessly promotes the show. But at the same time, you know, they're wrong to try to turn this into a true ensemble show or a two-lead show or whatever it is they're trying to do. It's a bad move, and I hope they receive that message.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)

It's patently absurd to claim a show named after one of the characters is "bigger than any one character". It isn't. Buffy couldn't survive without Buffy, Angel couldn't survive without Angel, The Rockford Files couldn't survive without Rockford, MacGuyver couldn't survive without MacGuyver... you get the picture? Even if you didn't like the main character (and man, was Buffy a dick for most of the last four seasons of the show), the show still wouldn't work without them.

 

Arrow, without Oliver Queen, is not a TV show. It's a series of webisodes. Sure, if the show had built up its secondary characters a bit more, and given them more time to grow and find their own place, then it might be okay for a few episodes. But guess what? They killed one of the main secondary characters at the end of season one, they killed another at the end of season 2, and a third at the beginning of season 3. So... what are they hoping to achieve? That one character that few ever liked, and one that no one has been given reason to like, will somehow win the hearts of fans? Good luck with that.

Edited by Danny Franks
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lemotomato

lemotomato

I'm looking at his facebook page now and this post is still on there. It's the first one I see. 

Weird. The post about his mom's texts is the first post I see on his FB page, but if I scroll through my timeline, you're right-- the post is still there.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)

I get the feeling it's more "we want to do Batman and we want to play around with different things each year so here, this is what we're trying out season 3 and hey, incidentally doesn't it make a great hole to showcase Laurel and Ray?"

 

Oh I don't disagree that the EPs clearly have a complete hard-on for Batman and are probably disappointed that they couldn't have him when they were first given the opportunity to develop a DC TV show, but here's my confession in blood...I hate the Batman parallels because I loathe the Nolan Batman movies. When I first started watching the show I acknowledged that it was a bit darker than my usual comic fare but it wasn't Batman dark and there were interesting relationships between the characters along with some lightness and humor, so I ended up enjoying it. But it has been getting progressively gloomier, they've killed off so many characters I've loved, and the relationship scenes are now being rushed through at lightning pace and lately I'm left wondering why I'm still watching what has essentially become...The Dark Knight. Really now I think the only thing that's keeping me watching is my loyalty to Stephen, Emily, David, and John. When I see Stephen post things like this I want to support him because I know the show means so much to him and the cast but it's HARD.

It's especially frustrating to watch the EPs try to sell this show by backpedaling in all their social media interaction with the fans and reporters because it leaves the impression that they know they have to outright lie in order to keep people watching yet they aren't smart enough to realize why people would be upset with their vision for the show. It's also frustrating to see how great The Flash has been in comparison (I love that show too) knowing that it shares most of the same showrunners. I don't know if I saw it here or over on another board but someone made a rather astute observation that it almost seems as if the EPs have sucked every last drop of joy out of Arrow in order to contrast it with The Flash. I completely get that Arrow is, by nature, a darker show and Oliver Queen and Barry Allen are on opposite ends of the happy spectrum, but even Oliver Queen had occasional winning moments amongst all of the crap flung at him over the past couple of years. This season he's been beat down over and over again both personally and professionally without a lot to show for it and now we have the added bonus of Stephen out there having to reassure fans that what happens to The Arrow doesn't really matter because they have all of these other great vigilantes to pick up the slack even though nobody really loves any of them beyond the fact that their name is [insert random DC character from the comic books].

ETA: Part of me wonders why they even bother with social media interaction at all when 1) they oversell what they produce, 2) clearly fan response doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, and 3) they end up backpeddling/contradicting themselves more times than not.

P.S. Sorry this was so long. :P

Edited by NumberCruncher
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catrox14

catrox14

Oh Stephen. He is just trying to be the good Captain of his ship. He knows that the ratings will take a hit, so he's just trying to stave that off.

Unless we've all been baited and switched and that would really break my heart. And I would feel terrible let for Stephen.

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

^Haha.  I actually made a comment about that in the episode thread last night.  But yeah, in my post I thought he was just flinching from the cold too.  It looked really chilly.  Oh, and it wasn't "a" random pec flex, there were a couple of them!

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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Starfish35

Starfish35

So in the comments for that Blind Item I posted in the Hopes & Fears thread, since the blind item refers to the show's "leading lady" there is a bit of discussion on whether Laurel or Felicity is Arrow's leading lady. One commenter said this in reference to Katie Cassidy:

Her name is further up in the credits only because they haven’t changed it, but she only has a 19/20 ep. order per season out of 23 eps, while Emily’s in every episode. Emily’s the female lead.

This is the first I've heard of this. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

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manbearpig

manbearpig

I'm not sure what it says in the actual contract, but Katie Cassidy did miss three episodes during season two while EBR was in every episode. KC missed 3.07 this year too. KC was in every episode in season one though so presumably they could use her in every episode if they wanted to, but I really have no idea.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

The reason it got my attention is that I thought a lot of what was going on this season with Laurel was driven by the need to re-establish her as female lead, to build her character back up into actually being the female lead. But if Katie Cassidy is actually in fact no longer the female lead it kind of changes the picture a bit. *shrugs*

Edited by Starfish35
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calliope1975

calliope1975

The reason it got my attention is that I thought a lot of what was going on this season with Laurel was driven by the need to justify her role as female lead, to build her character back up into actually being the female lead. But if Katie Cassidy is actually in fact no longer the female lead it kind of changes the picture a bit. *shrugs*

 

You may be right. I'm not sure why TPTB don't seem to understand the problems with Laurel. It could be ego driven. This is the one character the majority of the audience hasn't responded favorably to and damn it, they're just not going to give up. It could be money driven. They're paying KC leading lady rates and they want their money's worth.

 

As far as who actually is the leading lady, that's where I see something different, especially in the show's promotion. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

The money they have spent on Katie Cassidy is a sunk cost.  They signed the contract three years ago and it's a done deal.  Will the show ever be able to get their money's worth out of Laurel?  I doubt it.  She is cheered by a small segment of the fandom, tolerated by most and loathed by a few.  They tried to put her in the show's leading lady role but that failed within the first part of season one. If they keep trying, especially with plot contrivances and taking time away from other characters, all they will succeed in doing is hurting their own show.  It was bed enough that they killed off Tommy and Moira.

 

It seems like most of the favorable reviews and comments are for Oliver/SA, Felicity/EBR, Diggle/DR and Malcolm/JB Quentin doesn't get mentioned much because right now it's a pretty small role, and the rest of the cast either doesn't get talked about a lot or criticized.  The most critical comments, both in terms of the writing and the acting, have been about Laurel.

One of the things this show has done very well is to shift the focus from their original idea when something better happens (e.g. from Oliver and his love life to Team Arrow).  If they want to put Laurel back front and center again, they don't deserve that status of show-runners.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

So DC just released their Arrow merchandise with Sara as Black Canary & IT Girl shirts. Where is the female lead?

 

There is a poster and a mug that still only has season one's cast on it, just Thea, Diggle, Oliver, TOMMY, and Laurel.  That's the only time Laurel is referenced in any of the merchandise.  Outdated stuff. 

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Oh my gosh.  I imagine that David Ramsey's social media accounts are being attacked by KC fans as we speak.  You have to wonder how he meant for that to be taken, because taking his KC impression at face value, that's quite a burn.  He's such a charming and funny guy in that video, though.  His thoughts on the show always make me happy because he's so positive about Oliver/Felicity.  SA hasn't been pushing Olicity like he used to last season, so I am glad that David has some really positive thoughts on that part of the show.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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Sakura12

Sakura12

I loved that Caity was impressed with his legs and Stephen told him to put his pants back on because he was jealous. lol. 

 

That was a serious burn at Katie Cassidy. The no facial movement is what most of us talk about, glad to know the other actors see that too.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

I would hope that this is something of a running joke that Cassidy is aware of. David Ramsey doesn't seem like the type of guy who would just randomly rip the piss out of a co-star in a public forum. Of course, if it is a running joke that Katie Cassidy can't emote or move her face very much, then it's hardly a ringing endorsement of her popularity on the Arrow set.

 

Makes me wonder anew at the lunacy of those in charge, that they want to push someone who is even mocked by her co-stars as an important part of the show. Just give it up, guys. It was a bad job, and it's only gotten worse.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

An actors entire job is to emote. So if she's not, she's failing at her job. It has nothing to do with cosmetic surgery. DR has pointed out what most of us see when we see Laurel, a blank face. It's hard to connect to a character like that. She's supposed to be playing a person not a robot. 

 

He'll probably get some flack for that comment. It's not mean but it's also something you don't want to say about your fellow actors. 

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catrox14

catrox14

An actors entire job is to emote. So if she's not, she's failing at her job. It has nothing to do with cosmetic surgery. DR has pointed out what most of us see when we see Laurel, a blank face. It's hard to connect to a character like that. She's supposed to be playing a person not a robot. 

 

He'll probably get some flack for that comment. It's not mean but it's also something you don't want to say about your fellow actors. 

 

Pretty sure I never defended KC's acting choices in my comment or LIKE EVER. I am probably one of the biggest Laurel detractors here. My point was that is a quality to Laurel that she always tries to maintain that stoicism. I think Ramsey was joking to that point. I don't think he was openly criticizing her acting choices in a real way. He mocked Colton with the 1000 yard stare too. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

That to me looked he was mocking their acting choices. However SA's nervous twitch and Colton's intensity are at least emotional reactions. KC doesn't have an emotion, she's just blank. Which is never how an actor would want to be described. Maybe it's a in-joke that KC's aware of. But from watching the very few interviews with her I don't think she or her fans would take David's remark as a compliment or a funny joke. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Sakura12

Sakura12

I have no doubt he was making fun. That comment just seems like something you wouldn't want said if you are an actor. 

 

I love his honesty though. It seems a lot of the Arrow actors say what they want without being mean. It's a good talent to have. 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

So she deliberately plays Laurel as a robot devoid of any genuine emotion, but prone to the occasional outburst? Why?

 

What a stupid acting choice that is. She doesn't have anywhere near the ability to be both stoic and sympathetic, so she really shouldn't try. Laurel might have been more relatable, over the life of the show, if she had ever really seemed like a decent person who thought about others and felt their pleasures and pains in any real way. She never has, and she has always come off as, at best, cold, and at worst, spiteful and vindictive.

 

In the only episode of this season I've seen, the crossover, her one scene is just full of so much of what Cassidy has done wrong. She's snippy and condescending to her father, and then accusing and bitter to Oliver for daring to... what? Leave town for a couple of days? Vigilant (yes, I know that's not a verb, but whatever) in another part of the country? If this has all been deliberate by Cassidy, then she's needed someone to sit her down, at any point over the last three years, and say, 'you know people are supposed to like Laurel? Stop making her such a stone cold bitch'.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

SA and CL were both playing stoic because of the atrocities they suffered but they added some warmth and vulnerability to Oliver and Sara that made people want to root for them. DP on Flash is playing cold as well. But you still see her humanity underneath that. You can see that's she's hurting and that's why she has her walls up. I can't see anything in KC's performance. 

 

Someone posted a gif of Quentin and Laurel talking and PB went through a range of emotions in the 10 second gif while KC held the same blank expression. So I could see what David was talking about from just that small part of a scene. 

 

If they told me that Laurel is a robot that Dinah had built because she thought she couldn't have kids then I would believe that and understand KC's "acting" choices. Of course RoboCanary would be kind of awesome, especially if they can power her down and stick her in a closet until they need extra backup. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

SA and CL were both playing stoic because of the atrocities they suffered but they added some warmth and vulnerability to Oliver and Sara that made people want to root for them. DP on Flash is playing cold as well. But you still see her humanity underneath that. You can see that's she's hurting and that's why she has her walls up. I can't see anything in KC's performance. 

 

Oh man, Caity Lotz was just brimming over with humanity, whatever the situation. I've said it before, but she invested her character with such melancholy depth and warmth and sadness that it was impossible not to fall for her, at least a little. You felt everything she'd been through, and everything she'd sacrificed, and Lotz was never afraid of possibly looking unattractive by crumpling her face up with emotion (I wonder if this is part of Cassidy's problem. Crying ain't pretty) whenever the situation called for it. I actually watched Heir to the Demon again today, because I just felt like seeing Sara again, and she's so good in it. Earnest and authentic, and yes, genuinely human. Laurel has never appeared to be any of those things.

 

Stephen Amell. Well, I will boast of being one of the first few to really appreciate his acting in the old TWoP thread. At first, I did think he was wooden and flat, but it soon became clear that it was all down to the choices he was making, and the care he was taking with the role. He was playing Oliver as traumatised, and had the ability to let that facade crack, on occasion. Yes, there were some missteps, here and there, but on the whole he did a great job, particularly with the physicality of Oliver. He has loosened up a little, which makes sense, given Oliver's journey of reconnection.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

David Ramsey told a story of Stephen's first day back shooting in the Arrow cave, and David, Katie, Emily and Colton are all comfortable and talking with each other, and Stephen tries to get in on the conversation and they're "oh, you're back" and continue talking to each other kind of ignoring him cuz he doesn't fit in so much any more.  That gave me the impression that they all get along with Katie Cassidy pretty well (and that we're stuck with Laurel in the Arrow cave from now on but that's just be my feeling from how he told the story).

 

The other impression I got out of DR's interview (I haven't had a chance to hear the whole thing yet) is that Olicity has now become endgame because when he talked about Oliver in the hospital seeing what Diggle had, Lyla and the baby, he was all "I want that, and I want that, and I want that" and that's what's Oliver's going to get down the line, "hopefully with Felicity".  If they were still talking on set about making Lauriver endgame, he would have said something like "hopefully he'll get that, whoever it's with."

Edited by statsgirl
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

David Ramsey told a story of Stephen's first day back shooting in the Arrow cave, and David, Katie, Emily and Colton are all comfortable and talking with each other, and Stephen tries to get in on the conversation and they're "oh, you're back" and continue talking to each other kind of ignoring him cuz he doesn't fit in so much any more. That gave me the impression that they all get along with Katie Cassidy pretty well (and that we're stuck with Laurel in the Arrow cave from now on but that's just be my feeling from how he told the story)..

If you're talking around 10:20 of the video. He differentiates between the two events. Katie's is included when talking about Stephen not being there and excluded when talking about Stephen trying to get in in their jokes now that he's back.

If anything it seems like once Stephen got back the Arrow cave scene went back to Roy, Diggle, Felicity and Oliver.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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wonderwall

wonderwall

The other impression I got out of DR's interview (I haven't had a chance to hear the whole thing yet) is that Olicity has now become endgame because when he talked about Oliver in the hospital seeing what Diggle had, Lyla and the baby, he was all "I want that, and I want that, and I want that" and that's what's Oliver's going to get down the line, "hopefully with Felicity".  If they were still talking on set about making Lauriver endgame, he would have said something like "hopefully he'll get that, whoever it's with."

What I love was that he was never really prompted to talk about them, he just brought it up on his own volition :) I like it when the cast supports them as a couple. Just sayin', it's a good feeling! I loved everything he said about Oliver/Felicity. But not as much as his insight on Diggle/Oliver and their relationship as well as MORE SUICIDE SQUAD AND HIVE IN SEASON 4?!?! YES. I need more John Diggle in my life. 

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

If you're talking around 10:20 of the video. He differentiates between the two events. Katie's is included when talking about Stephen not being there and excluded when talking about Stephen trying to get in in their jokes now that he's back.

If anything it seems like once Stephen got back the Arrow cave scene went back to Roy, Diggle, Felicity and Oliver.

That is how I saw it too.

 

DR said that EBR, CH, and He were cracking jokes and talking and Stephen tried to get in on the jokes. KC was not there during that time. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

If you're talking around 10:20 of the video. He differentiates between the two events. Katie's is included when talking about Stephen not being there and excluded when talking about Stephen trying to get in in their jokes now that he's back.

 

If anything it seems like once Stephen got back the Arrow cave scene went back to Roy, Diggle, Felicity and Oliver.

 

I was going to make just this distinction.  I'm sure they get along fine with Katie, but it seems that when Steven is back, Katie at least isn't automatically there in the lair. 

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BumpSetSpike

BumpSetSpike

(edited)

I loved David Ramsey's video.  I've never seen him have his own time at a con, and he is hysterical  When he is with the other cast, espcially Stephen, he is always the supporting actor.  But his personality just shined at this Phoenix event where it was all him, and I loved all the stories, teases, and jokes he shared.  

 

Now, not only do I need more Diggle on Arrow, I need more David Ramsey PR.

Edited by BumpSetSpike
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