Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[statsgirl]

I find that most of my fandoms tend to be curative (I had one friend who watched the show on her local station at 7 a.m. as she was getting up for the day and would send around comments and critiques on the episodes) but that's because many people I talk to are STEM or academics and facts are food and drink to us.  The comments also involved a lot of relationship stuff because hey, we're women and that's what interests us.  Other than fanfiction, which most of us did, there were only a couple of people who were transformative.  I really admire people who do the transformative stuff though.

In terms of the Arrow fandom, when I do venture out to forums that are predominantly male, I find they often get a lot of the facts wrong or see them blinded by their own biases.

Edited November 28, 2016 by statsgirl

[Featherhat]

I've ventured into a couple of more male dominated areas of the internet for DCTV shows recently and I'm finding it a bit depressing. Not because I only care about shipping and many of them seem to think girls have cooties still but the tone is so different from what I'm experiencing on the shows lately. Not sure if this is a male/female thing or a comic book thing, though I think they are the groups moaning loudest about shipping and where the directors are aiming their "100% comics, 100% of the time, we swear! Felicity is there to look pretty, crack jokes and not get in the way of Masks!" mantra though.

And that's not even mentioning the delightful threads moaning that BC didn't wear a swimming costume and Supergirl's top should be more low cut and we should be able to see up her skirt when she's flying/taking off, because comics y'all.

[wonderwall]

This isn't relevant at all... But @Featherhat, when I first read your username I thought it read fear-the-hat. not featherhat. 

All this hat eating stuff has gotten to me

[wonderwall]

So now The Mary Sue is on my blacklist along with GATV and CBR :)

[LeighAn]

11 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

So now The Mary Sue is on my blacklist along with GATV and CBR :)

I'm assuming there was some version of Felicity is the worst and/or Laurel/everyone not named Felicity is the best cause girls with complex emotions and agency are gross and comic canon is awesome just because of reasons. Close? 

[statsgirl]

This cheered me up  -- a couple of fans met David Ramsey at HVFF and he asked them to be honest about how they felt about this season, very honest.

This is what they replied:

Quote

- The entitlement of the new crew, especially Rene and Evelyn, is highly irritating

- We like Rory – because he is humble -  and want him to stay

- We are aware that the writers create nice scenes between the recruits and Original Team Arrow to make us like them more (ie the scene with Rene organizing JJ’s birthday) but only to appear inorganic and sometimes a proof of lazy writing

- It would have been easier to accept the new recruits in a season where Original Team Arrow and Olicity were not broken up – Too many changes, too quickly.

- We do understand that adding new characters makes killing off characters easier (eh, it is Arrow at the end of the day) but it’s not enough to justify alienating the show

- We’ve seen a significant shift in Felicity’s and Curtis’ writing between S4 & S5 and not for the best

- We are annoyed by Rene calling Felicity Blondie

- We miss John and Felicity’s scenes together.

- John and Felicity have been sidelined and we miss Original Team Arrow together.

- We do not believe Arrow 100 will be a love letter to the fans. Not our type of fans anyway. If it was so, we would have much more OTA together during that episode. (David’s body language at that moment didn’t really help me feel better about this episode – but here, personal interpretation).

- The show should spend less time filming with superhero type aesthetics – when they all stand together before/after a fight scene - and focus more on the writing of the characters.

- It is a shame the writers felt like they had to send Curtis on the field straight away. Also, why do they have to send everyone on the field? The Green Arrow and Spartan now have backups but Felicity doesn’t. It doesn’t take to be on the field to be a hero and the writers have forgotten this once more.

I hope that he passes on the message, and that Berlanti/Guggenheim/Mericle listen to him.

[Chaser]

29 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

So now The Mary Sue is on my blacklist along with GATV and CBR :)

They have been on mine for awhile. Passive aggressive potshots at Felicity for ages.

[Chaser]

16 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This cheered me up  -- a couple of fans met David Ramsey at HVFF and he asked them to be honest about how they felt about this season, very honest.

This is what they replied:

I hope that he passes on the message, and that Berlanti/Guggenheim/Mericle listen to him.

I can't go to Tumblr from here. Did they go into anymore detail about DR's reaction(s)?

[Featherhat]

48 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

This isn't relevant at all... But @Featherhat, when I first read your username I thought it read fear-the-hat. not featherhat. 

All this hat eating stuff has gotten to me

That's an even better name, I shall have to see about changing it! ;)

 

17 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I'm assuming there was some version of Felicity is the worst and/or Laurel/everyone not named Felicity is the best cause girls with complex emotions and agency are gross and comic canon is awesome just because of reasons. Close? 

 

It frustrates me because the more it gets bandied around the more "Felicity was everything wrong with S3/4 and Laurel was the best" becomes post facto truth, never mind that Laurel has been one of the most unpopular characters since S1 and whilst gaining a bit more popularity in 4b, wasn't exactly the most perfect BC.

Felicity I guess is part of a backlash effect. A lot of "because comics fans" have never liked her as anything more than quippy IT girl and she was so raved about for several seasons by other fans that at some point I guess it was inevitable that a backlash would start and she is an easy one to blame the problems of S3/4 on. You can't blame SA, it's his show and Felicity/EBR had the unenviable task of ushering in The Flash (successfully) and then The Atom (semi successfully) onto their own spin offs, thus making her seem too super special and especially in the case of Ray, putting her in an unpalatable storyline away from the cast for so many episodes. Then S4 happens and the writings getting worse, who to blame? Them damn shippers of course.

I do find it amusing that the writers currently anointed of the noobs Wild Dog, seems to keep polling as the least popular.

[catrox14]

Okay this made me laugh a lot.

[statsgirl]

Another reason for a backlash against Felicity is that if she had never been Oliver's love interest, the ghastly Baby Mama Drama would not have happened.  (Although I have to admit, I would have liked to see it happen for Laurel, where it might have made sense.

In a sense, it was the bad writing that consolidated the "Hate Felicity"/ "Love Felicity" factions. Way to tear apart the fandom, guys.

55 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I can't go to Tumblr from here. Did they go into anymore detail about DR's reaction(s)?

No.  I gather he didn't say anything and they were careful not to try to read anything more into his body language.

[LeighAn]

The only hint they give is that their read of David's body language about their fears over the 100 didn't reassure them so yay.

[Primal Slayer]

I appreciate David being honest but in Hollywood, it isn't always welcome, calling out the writers could make him look like he is complicated. 

[LeighAn]

I don't think he was calling anyone out He asked a fan their honest opinion on the season at a con that saw a level of dissatisfaction in the show that hadn't been so openly felt at previous cons (judging by the panels and questions) I don't think he's doing anything wrong by wanting to listen and hear out an unhappy fan about where their dissatisfaction lies. Especially considering these people paid a lot of money to be here as fans of the show and these two bloggers in particular attend just about every con. 

It's certainly a lot better then the openly defensive touchy and dismissive attitude of Stephen. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by LeighAn

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I appreciate David being honest but in Hollywood, it isn't always welcome, calling out the writers could make him look like he is complicated. 

All David did was ask for their opinion. I don't think there's anything wrong with that? 

[bethy]

Asking that kind of question makes me think that David isn't particularly happy with where things are in show right now. His answers at cons seem to be a lot of, "Well, I hope..." Especially when it comes to Dig/Felicity scenes or OTA scenes. I agree though that not towing (toeing?) the company line of, "Yea, newbies!" or "Best season evah!" might be dangerous.

[LeighAn]

He wasn't publicly trashing the show though. He asked a question at a con and according to the bloggers he didn't offer his own thoughts just heard out theirs and the bloggers appreciated it. 

I doubt the producers care or think any differently of David.

Edited November 29, 2016 by LeighAn

[bethy]

You're right that David wasn't trashing the show, but it's interesting to me that he asked such an open-ended question, inviting criticism. There are certainly criticisms of the show online, but as has been noted, the show itself - Guggenheim, Mericle, Amell - seems to be doubling down on how great they think the season is. I just wonder what DR thinks and what it means that he asked fans what they thought and be very "honest" about it.

[Morrigan2575]

Pretty sure DR asks that question or a version of that question at most of his cons. I'm pretty sure he asked us what we thought of S4 both during the lounge and panel at COH2. It seems to be his icebreaker for the room.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

All David did was ask for their opinion. I don't think there's anything wrong with that? 

I must have read it to fast, I took it as him making the comments.

[looptab]

6 hours ago, wonderwall said:

So now The Mary Sue is on my blacklist along with GATV and CBR :)

Do you have a link? :)

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Another reason for a backlash against Felicity is that if she had never been Oliver's love interest, the ghastly Baby Mama Drama would not have happened.  (Although I have to admit, I would have liked to see it happen for Laurel, where it might have made sense.

What do you mean? For me it's always clearly been left over from way back before changing the show's direction, and the writers dumbly decided to play out the beats that would have made more sense for Oliver and Laurel than they did for Oliver and Felicity. 

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

What do you mean? For me it's always clearly been left over from way back before changing the show's direction, and the writers dumbly decided to play out the beats that would have made more sense for Oliver and Laurel than they did for Oliver and Felicity. 

I think that is the point, that had the Baby Mama drama been played out through the lens of Laurel and Oliver's relationship, then another awful layer of lying and drama would make sense. More poison from the past would make sense and would be a valid thing they'd have to work through. Not so much for the relationship that he actually was in during season four.  

[statsgirl]

Yes, that's it.  Felicity knew Oliver kept secrets and she'd been okay with it so to give up on him and break up FOREVAH! over William seemed extreme.  It would have made more sense with Laurel because William was conceived while she was in  a supposedly committed relationship with Oliver. 

David Ramsey has always been a strong propenent of "TPTB listens to social media".  The original social medium is face-to-face conversations so I'm not surprised, and rather encouraged, that he asked to con attendees for their true opinion.

Edited November 29, 2016 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

MG is writing yet another comic book...
https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/803297485368111104

Edited November 29, 2016 by tv echo

[GirlvsTV]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Yes, that's it.  Felicity knew Oliver kept secrets and she'd been okay with it so to give up on him and break up FOREVAH! over William seemed extreme.  It would have made more sense with Laurel because William was conceived while she was in  a supposedly committed relationship with Oliver. 

I don't think Oliver continuing to keeping secrets was okay with Felicity after they were in a committed relationship though, especially after they were engaged. For me, the reason the BMD failed was because it didn't seem to make sense for the Oliver we saw throughout the first part of season 4 to lie to Felicity the way did. Given the rather toxic background of O/L, plus the added reality that William was conceived while they were supposed to be together, I think Oliver lying in that relationship wouldn't have felt so OOC and the storyline would have made more sense. I found it entirely believable Felicity decided to break it off with Oliver, but I might have felt more conflicted about LL doing it since the transgression would have happened pre-island - although the lying would've made me more sympathetic to LL's side. I mean, Oliver's basically a big lying douche regardless of which love interest he is lying to.

Also, if DR asking for honest opinions is a fairly regular occurrence I wonder if he was surprised at the earful he got this time? I'm totally glad they expressed their issues with the show, just curious if he's ever had a response quite like that before : )

Edited November 29, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[apinknightmare]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Yes, that's it.  Felicity knew Oliver kept secrets and she'd been okay with it so to give up on him and break up FOREVAH! over William seemed extreme.  It would have made more sense with Laurel because William was conceived while she was in  a supposedly committed relationship with Oliver.

I think the baby mama drama was definitely a holdover from some original O/L plan they had and were too lazy to rewrite. It isn't okay for him to lie to anyone he's in a relationship with, but with Laurel his willingness to keep it a secret would've actually made sense. 

If they'd progressed to being engaged and had managed to overcome Oliver's cheating in the past, of course he'd want to hide a reminder of the guy he'd finally convinced Laurel he wasn't anymore. 

Felicity's kept his biggest secrets for years and he knows that, so...ridiculous, messy and stupid.

[tv echo]

[Velocity23]

David Ramsey had to cancel his Sunday appearance at the con in Brazil. He will still appear on 2nd and 3rd December

https://twitter.com/CCXPoficial/status/803328954002194432

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, GirlvsTV said:

I don't think Oliver continuing to keeping secrets was okay with Felicity after they were in a committed relationship though, especially after they were engaged. For me, the reason the BMD failed was because it didn't seem to make sense for the Oliver we saw throughout the first part of season 4 to lie to Felicity the way did.

They can kind of make the argument that Oliver was so scared of losing Felicity that he felt he had to lie to her about William or she would leave him (dammit Barry).

I agree it was wrong for Oliver to keep secrets from her once they were together but he really can be a big dumb pine tree at times and his default is always to keep secrets and go it alone.  But to his credit, he doesn't make the same mistake twice, and Felicity has been forgiving him every time.  Making breaking up final with no take-backs seems to fit Laurel better than Felicity.

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

They can kind of make the argument that Oliver was so scared of losing Felicity that he felt he had to lie to her about William or she would leave him (dammit Barry).

I agree it was wrong for Oliver to keep secrets from her once they were together but he really can be a big dumb pine tree at times and his default is always to keep secrets and go it alone.  But to his credit, he doesn't make the same mistake twice, and Felicity has been forgiving him every time.  Making breaking up final with no take-backs seems to fit Laurel better than Felicity.

It's funny because I was thinking the opposite, LOL. Laurel has been the one that wanted him back even after he cheated on her with her sister and brought her on the trip that killed her in season 1. We also know from the scene in her deathbed that she still considered him the love of her life so everything he did (the cheating, lying, getting a girl pregnant when he was with her, yelling at her and dating her sister again when she was at her lowest point, proposing to another woman) wasn't a deal breaker.

The problem with that argument is that it's not what they told us, on the show or the writers with their interviews..we can view it that way anyway of course but it would be Oliver taking her choice away and I don't see Felicity being fine with that either.

I think it's in character for Felicity to have strong reactions when it comes to a relationship..like when in S3 she told Oliver she wanted more in her life or she told him she didn't want to be a woman he loved. I think we could say, even if it wasn't really explored on the show, that her abandonment issues play a role in the way she views relationships and an eventual marriage. As a friend and teammate she has never given up on him and tried to understand/support him but it's different because that way she can put some distance between them and protect her heart better. It's not the same as being involved with him. JMO.

[Morrigan2575]

You think maybe you can move the NON Social Media talk to a different thread?

[Morena]

edit

Edited November 29, 2016 by Morena
to spoilers thread

[bijoux]

Those are spoilers.

[Trisha]

Oof. MG is at it again. First he gave an interview to TV Line in which he said: 

Quote

I'll be honest, so much of the buzz about this show is given to us by the ‘shippers. I love their passion, but at the same time, there's a lot of times where I'll be like, ‘Can't people watch the show just to be entertained?’ I mean, does rooting for one particular relationship over another have to be the be-all and end-all of someone's enjoyment?

Then he replied in the affirmative to someone on Twitter who made the grossly reductive claim that most Olicity fans only dislike S5 because of its lack of Olicity and Felicity focus. And to top it all off, he then replied to someone who made a very valid point about how the term shipper now seems like a coded word for lady fan shaming by saying we need to focus on what matters, which is not a TV show but the state of the republic. 

It's just awful, especially on the eve of the 100 episode. It's fine if the writers are done with Olicity, but the constant kicking of that part of the fandom when they are down is mind-boggling,  especially on the heels of two seasons of building them up. Their attitude towards shippers is giving me whiplash. And both MG and SA can shove their "it's just a TV show" talk. My passion about a show does not negate or overshadow my passion about world events. I can hold multiple thoughts in my tiny lady head at once, sirs. 

[Chaser]

The more he talks the harsher I think the feedback was from the network.

[Mellowyellow]

Are the shippers abusing him online? That's the only reason I can see for such bitterness.

I can understand if he's ended Olicity and that's what they are doing but why constantly insult a bunch of people that you don't care to have as a fan base anymore?

Does he wish they'd stop watching and commenting? I'm sure that will happen soon enough without him stirring the pot.

[Trisha]

17 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Are the shippers abusing him online? That's the only reason I can see for such bitterness.

I can understand if he's ended Olicity and that's what they are doing but why constantly insult a bunch of people that you don't care to have as a fan base anymore?

Does he wish they'd stop watching and commenting? I'm sure that will happen soon enough without him stirring the pot.

You might be on to something with thinking he wishes they'd stop watching. I've certainly seen Olicity fans be vocal and tweeting him about their dissatisfaction this season but (from what I've seen) it's been much more civil than the abuse he was getting after killing off Laurel. I wonder if he was mandated by TPTB to end Olicity, and he and the writers are trying to drive away that fandom because they don't want to give them false hope and/or deal with their complaints for the rest of the series? Because honestly, I can't figure out another reason why there's been such a hard pivot away from that relationship and such a sudden and vicious turn against that fan base. 

[GirlvsTV]

11 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Are the shippers abusing him online? That's the only reason I can see for such bitterness.

I haven't seen anything I'd call abusive, mostly people expressing discontent with the writing/focus of s5 but not in a nasty way. It only seems to get heated after he says something dumb, like he did today. Did people clap back at him? Yes, but not in any way I'd consider abusive. Nothing like some of the gross stuff the writers received after LL died. I've only read replies to some of his tweets though, so I suppose there could be worse stuff in his regular mentions.

I was going to watch the crossover tonight, cause I wanted to see how SG fit in, but decided not to after that MG tweet. I just find it infuriating to single out and belittle a group of fans because they like a relationship, when you can watch a show for whatever reason you like. Tbh, I think he's just pressed because the show lost most of its social media buzz because Olicity folks bailed. So, shipper opinions get belittled and invalidated because they are, "just mad O/F are not together," even though the bulk of the complaints have been about the writing. Easier to think that way than acknowledge some of the story choices they made are not working for some viewers, I guess.

[Primal Slayer]

They are doing what majority of shows do and that is keep the main couple off and on throughout the shows run to create cheap drama. Olicity will end up together in the end, but Marc deflecting and making up lame excuses just makes things worse. Everyone could focus on more important things then watch Arrow at all but people know how to multitask and I don't think he realizes that. There are 24 hrs in a day afterall.

[Guest]

It wouldn't be so bad if MG was the only one dismissing shippers because that's exactly what he's like when fans disagree with him. But I've seen it within fandom too, even here. It's the in thing to do, I guess?

Just ignore him. He doesn't get it anyway.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Guest

[lemotomato]

22 minutes ago, Trisha said:

You might be on to something with thinking he wishes they'd stop watching. I've certainly seen Olicity fans be vocal and tweeting him about their dissatisfaction this season but (from what I've seen) it's been much more civil than the abuse he was getting after killing off Laurel. I wonder if he was mandated by TPTB to end Olicity, and he and the writers are trying to drive away that fandom because they don't want to give them false hope and/or deal with their complaints for the rest of the series? Because honestly, I can't figure out another reason why there's been such a hard pivot away from that relationship and such a sudden and vicious turn against that fan base. 

MG says what he says because he likes to stir shit up. During season 3 he riled up shippers (Olicity and L/O) when he held tumblr Q&As. During season 4, he made comments about comics fans, pointing out that they make a show for an audience of millions, not just comics readers. This season it looks like he's cycled back to shippers, except there's only Olicity left, because L is dead dead dead. 

It makes no business sense to drive away any audience on purpose. MG and SA have said repeatedly that hate is better than apathy. They prefer to hear people bitching about the show because that means they're watching, or at least talking about it. I don't think it's a coincidence that MG seems to always pops up to say shitty things on Tuesdays/Wednesdays. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by lemotomato

[insomniadreams88]

The problem is when MG or anyone with the show tweets things like this and then when it comes to winning something, they want the Olicity fans to rally and win it for them. 

And like I've said before, it's much easier to address critique by saying it's about a ship than to address it about other things. 

(I will admit that I hope a Felicity's 5B arc has already started in the filming/writing process after that tweet or I'm worried what that could change about their plans.)

[GirlvsTV]

16 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It wouldn't be so bad if MG was the only one dismissing shippers because that's exactly what he's like when fans disagree with him. But I've seen it within fandom too, even here. It's the in thing to do, I guess? Just ignore him. He doesn't get it anyway.

He is the show's Executive Producer. My support, time and purchasing dollars will be better spent on a show with an EP (and lead actor) who don't feel the need to belittle and dismiss parts of the fandom because they are just, "shippers."  Also, I agree it smacks of coded sexism and it doesn't help to see that mindset reflected in the treatment of Arrow's female characters this season. 

ETA: I have a hard time understanding why trying to stir up / anger Olicity fans is a solid idea. Tbh, I think their dumbassery has actually driven them away more quickly. It is certainly true for me, I decided to hold off watching live this season based solely on those terrible interviews before 5x01.

Edited November 30, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[thegirlsleuth]

Guggenheim's defensiveness with the Olicity fans seems completely out of proportion to the criticism he's getting, although while nobody's issuing death threats, perhaps the volume of criticism is overwhelming. He tried to back out of his statements, making it seems like it wasn't only Olicity fans or female shippers that he critiqued, but that tweet he agreed with clearly called out the Olicity shippers, and his claims that he meant all shippers seem disingenuous. I cannot understand his strategy here, although it does get people talking. In addition to the possibility that he is getting pressure from the network to fix the ratings, I do wonder if he was told to kill Olicity and add the comic-sanctioned masks by DC/WB corporate, but now he has to take the heat from dissatisfied viewers. I feel like the promo stuff is trying to bait the Olicity shippers to return, and I don't know if that is pointing to a new direction or if it is ship-bait to shut them up.  Either way, the scorn that is coming through from the writers and EPs is making it hard for me to tune in.

[statsgirl]

The promo for tomorrow's episode seems to me to be a combination of asking Lauriver and Because Comics fans to return while trying to convince Olicity shippers/Felicity fans not to abandon the show.

I still get the feeling that no one behind the scenes gets that it's not so much the lack of Olicity this year that is the problem but the overall lack of quality this season.  Too many newbies, too fast, too little character development, horrible writing for the female characters.

If  DC/WB corporate told them to kill Olicity, then they're stupid.  I don't think the show would have done nearly so well without Olicity shippers, male and female.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, GirlvsTV said:

He is the show's Executive Producer. My support, time and purchasing dollars will be better spent on a show with an EP (and lead actor) who don't feel the need to belittle and dismiss parts of the fandom because they are just, "shippers."  Also, I agree it smacks of coded sexism and it doesn't help to see that mindset reflected in the treatment of Arrow's female characters this season. 

That's all very true. But he's not going to change, unfortunately. I feel like many people have tried striking up conversation with him about it and he never gets it, every single time. It's like talking to a brick wall. Why bother?

[LeighAn]

Honestly I'm at the point where I don't care if he makes digs at shippers because as others mention it's been his MO for awhile and it's almost habit now. But it's the condescending "let's focus on the stuff that is really important" like In sorry MG I can watch and enjoy a tv show AND care about world politics and global warming. I almost feel like saying to him that if it's all so unimportant why not say no to the millions of dollars the CW will be paying him and all those residuals and devote his life to the Democrat party or become a politician. It's one thing to say that to fans but what exactly is he doing to advocate other then self righteous tweeting

[Happy Harpy]

Why oh why did I click on this interview? (Because it's late and I didn't sleep)

Yet another showrunner who takes a relationship that a huge bunch of people is very vocal about liking because it's based on mutual respect, trust, and understanding; destroys it with the cheapest character-ruining soapy drama; and plays the martyr because said huge bunch of people hates it?

Cry me a river. 

Maybe M.Guggenheim would have liked more talk about things like Ra's charismatic tenure? Malcolm Merlyn's coherent character development? The carefully, logically crafted S3 and S4 arcs? Thea's agency and epic love story with Alex? The riveting S4 flashbacks? The giganormous screentime devoted to OTA? The endearing, fascinating bunch of masked/superpowered/magical newbies popping up every season? etc.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Showrunners basically calling people airheads or complaining because they're "too passionate (unless it's all praise, of course)" about TV shows seems to be a trend. They should remember that those airheads and their passion are why they make a better living than soldiers, nurses, teachers... you know, people who take care of those important matters and do change the world for the better everyday. Moreover, I'd like to think that when you're in charge of a show, meaning that hundreds of people's livelihood depends on you doing a good job, nothing should be more important to you.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[tarotx]

It does seem a trend with showrunners going at shippers. I mean Gilmore Girls creator Amy Sherman-Palladino talked about how fans were wondering about Dean or Jess instead of “What newspaper is Rory’s working for?” “Did she win a Pulitzer yet?" And then she went and made Rory Jobless and the last four words be what she made them. I'm over showrunners and creators. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by tarotx