S07.E14: Conch Blocked

[trimthatfat]

Sorry...I need to defend Ramona here. I didn't get why the other ladies were pissed. Was she rude? Sure. But she was spending the whole trip with the group. She's a woman going through a divorce who wants to have fun and flirt. Who cares if she ignored the other girls for a couple hours to chat up some dude? It's not like Carole was interested. These ladies should lighten up. Ramona's on vacation. Let the girl have a little fun without getting in her face about it.

I don't think it matters if Carole or Bethenny were interested in the guy. They were talking to him and Ramona interjected. She was very rude. For the entire trip, she's been very selfish and inconsiderate of the other ladies.

[shoegal]

She let LuAnn off because LuAnn backed the F off when Heather said she felt insulted and was getting upset, Dorinda kept coming for her and would not back off. Dorinda was a dog, a sloppy, rabid, drooling dog in her onslaught against Heather and refused to stop the attack and yes, Dorinda brought up meeting Heathers mother and that she felt Heather was an embarrassment to her while spitting/drooling/slurring/yelling  and swearing at her, all on camera.

Dorinda was for sure a drooling, slurring, yelling, swearing mess, but the only thing she said to Heather about her mother was "I've met your mother, and she's a beautiful woman." Then later, after Heather had made remarks about Dorinda's mom being proud of her now, as she was leaving, "we come from the same place Heather, we have good mothers, we have good things, don't ever be like...."

Dorinda never said Heather was an embarassment to her own mother.

[KFC]

This episode was so epic. I think of the ladies as two teams: LuAnn, Sonja, Ramona, Dorinda, and Bethenny, and then Carole, Heather and Kristin. Carole lost by pouting because Ramona didn't want to share the guy she was flirting with and Heather lost by completely losing it when the ladies called her out on her swearing. 

 

See, I actually think Bethenny is more aligned with Heather/Carole. Kristen is sort of the outlier, but apparently she IS on the same couch as the other three.

 

Sometimes we discuss "flipping the script," and this seems like a perfect example. I do think going into the season that Bethenny had decided she would be friendly with the old school 'wives (Ramona, Sonja, Luann) and be cold/distant toward the newbies. But based on the bits of info that have leaked out and the way social media has been going, I think she's much closer to Carole and Heather than the others.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

If Andy or anyone at Bravo think that a show with Bethenny, Sonja, Ramona, Luann and Dorinda would bring in more viewers then they are fucking idiots. A show with the afore mentioned would be middle aged women shrieking in each other's faces all day every day. Who the fuck would want to watch that?

 

When compared to them, there is no doubt that Kristen, Heather and Carole are different. I refuse to use the word boring to describe any of them because they don't share the same traits as those supposedly keeping their apples. They keep the show grounded in fucking reality. And more importantly, they bring some class as it is relative to Housewives. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[motorcitymom65]

I've seen this referenced a couple of times here and I'm out of the loop on this one. Did Lu's daughter do that, or has Lu done it herself?

Here is a link to the story.  I am keeping it in this thread since we are talking about appropriate words for daughter's to use, as per the narrative of this episode. 

 

Lu's daughter did it I think in S4. She was basically caught on camera using the "n" word and rolling what looked to be a joint. The most interesting part of this story is that the one and only Ramona Singer is the one who posted a link to the video on Twitter that got it noticed to begin with.  Lu's daughter was kicked out of school right after (Lu denied she was kicked out). This was a huge part of the issues between Lu and Ramona, and I believe why when Lu says things like "I will never forget what Ramona has done to me", this is what she is referring too. 

 

http://absurdtosublime.net/2011/05/21/luann-de-lesseps-daughter-thrown-out-of-school/

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

See, I actually think Bethenny is more aligned with Heather/Carole. Kristen is sort of the outlier, but apparently she IS on the same couch as the other three.

 

Sometimes we discuss "flipping the script," and this seems like a perfect example. I do think going into the season that Bethenny had decided she would be friendly with the old school 'wives (Ramona, Sonja, Luann) and be cold/distant toward the newbies. But based on the bits of info that have leaked out and the way social media has been going, I think she's much closer to Carole and Heather than the others.

 

The latest TH are newer, coincidentally that is when Bethenny shifted her narrative to being nicer to Heather and Kristen.

 

She is not closer or sitting on their side of the couch because of anything other than viewer feedback.

[imjagain]

Sorry...I need to defend Ramona here. I didn't get why the other ladies were pissed. Was she rude? Sure. But she was spending the whole trip with the group. She's a woman going through a divorce who wants to have fun and flirt. Who cares if she ignored the other girls for a couple hours to chat up some dude? It's not like Carole was interested. These ladies should lighten up. Ramona's on vacation. Let the girl have a little fun without getting in her face about it.

Ramona is always rude imo. So I would be beyond thrilled if she ignored me for 2 hours if I was the other women.

I forgot Ramona literally kissed Beth's ass!

[ScoobieDoobs]

If Andy or anyone at Bravo think that a show with Bethenny, Sonja, Ramona, Luann and Dorinda would bring in more viewers then they are fucking idiots. A show with the afore mentioned would be middle aged women shrieking in each other's faces all day every day. Who the fuck would want to watch that?

 

I don't disagree, but I suspect they're gonna make changes.  And Kristen, Carole & Heather seem to be the most likely ones (to me) on the chopping block to make room for new ones.  I'd like to see some younger ones & a better mix of ethnic backgrounds.  That's the way it is in NYC -- yeah, even in upper-crust Manhattan.  And the show should reflect that.

[JakeyJokes]

 

I flove Bethenny's line about making the lunch with "hate". I'm totally going to tell my family that when they're driving me crazy during dinner. Hell no this meal wasn't made with love! Bahahaha

 

What I loved most about that was Ramona cracking up in response, and how that was the comment that resolved everything.

 

Poor Heather. Interestingly enough, the best response I've seen on an RH show in regards to a drunk person yelling at you was Brandi Glanville in S3 (?) of RHOBH. She just let Kim Richards rail her at the White Party, smiled, nodded, said 'You're right", and let Kim walk away. I found myself in a similar situation a month after that and I used that as my guide. My, how times have changed.

 

Bethenny just Tweeted that the reunion took 11 hours to tape.

[essexjan]

So someone got absolutely shit-faced sloppy drunk AND IT WASN'T SONJA!!!  What is this madness? Am I in a parallel universe?!!

 

I found this episode exhausting, things kicking off out of nothing, yelling, screaming and drama, drama, drama!  I don't care who feels slighted, who doesn't like whom (d'you like that, Countess, I used proper grammar!), nor do I care if they eat Bethenny's lunch or throw it in the sea. And I'd have been furious if I'd paid good money to have dinner at the Gansevoort and then that bunch of shrieks turned up.

 

But I thought Carole looked beautiful at the dinner. I don't normally like her look, but that dress and the hair were perfect on her.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Seriously, why all the fuss on here & in this ep about Moaner being rude?  I mean, did ya just meet Moaner?  Er, Moaner breathing = Moaner being rude.  That's just who she is.  And that's all, folks.

 

What bugs me to no end is how the Moaner treats people trying to do their jobs.  Asking hotel staff to unpack her luggage is really taking advantage.  It's entitled & just downright nasty.  Where does she get off treating people like slaves?  Ugh, it really is horrible.  But that's Moaner.

[racked]

Here is a link to the story.  I am keeping it in this thread since we are talking about appropriate words for daughter's to use, as per the narrative of this episode. 

 

Lu's daughter did it I think in S4. She was basically caught on camera using the "n" word and rolling what looked to be a joint. The most interesting part of this story is that the one and only Ramona Singer is the one who posted a link to the video on Twitter that got it noticed to begin with.  Lu's daughter was kicked out of school right after (Lu denied she was kicked out). This was a huge part of the issues between Lu and Ramona, and I believe why when Lu says things like "I will never forget what Ramona has done to me", this is what she is referring too. 

 

http://absurdtosublime.net/2011/05/21/luann-de-lesseps-daughter-thrown-out-of-school/

 

Wow! I wasn't paying close attention Season 4, and missed all of this so thank you. Ramona is amazing, she really has been doing this sort of thing since Day 1. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

But I thought Carole looked beautiful at the dinner.

 

I thought all of them looked great.  Really great -- everyone's hair & makeup & clothes looked awesome.  The thing is -- and I'm only saying this cuz I was there -- er, nobody looks that good down there.  OK, I should say, nobody looks that done-up or dressed up.  Despite the gorgeous setting of the Gansevoort, everyone is super-duper casual.  And what I mean by that is -- lank or tied-back hair, not a drop of makeup & shorts, shorts, shorts -- every time, everyday, everywhere.  Look closely & if you can spot others at the hotel or at the joint where Moaner went after the owner, you can see what I mean, by the way the others are dressed & generally look.  No complaints tho, that they tried hard to look good for us.  That's what they should be doing.

[njbchlover]

Carole and Bethenny weren't flirting with the club owner. The owner is a friend of a friend of Bethenny's, and the three were simply having a conversation. Ramona came in without so much as an "excuse me" and just removed him from them. It didn't have anything to do with Bethenny and Carole hoping to hit on the guy -- it was simply an incredibly rude thing for Ramona to do.

 

I agree - Ramona was extemely rude to both Carole and Bethenny, but on the other hand, was the bar owner equally as rude?  He had to know beforehand that Ramona was a friend of Carole's and Bethenny's - we didn't see it, but I guess we can assume that one of them introduced Ramona to him when she sashayed her way up to them.

 

He, as well, could have angled himself and Ramona back towards Carole and Bethenny.  He didn't have to completely exclude them from the conversation.  So, while Ramona was rude to her friends, he was, too.

[motorcitymom65]

Wow! I wasn't paying close attention Season 4, and missed all of this so thank you. Ramona is amazing, she really has been doing this sort of thing since Day 1. 

Oh yea, Ramona is literally the original shit-stirrer.  She was doing it before we even knew who Brandi Glanville was or that there was a surrogacy to reveal. She has always gotten away with it because the other girls just eventually forgive her. I have always thought that should the other ladies ever really decide they've had enough and turn on her, she would be toast. I think they don't because having Ramona around does have it's benefits: anyone filming with her pretty much always comes out looking better than Ramona does. 

[Neerbeena]

Ramona really is a piece of work.  Her selfishness knows no bounds and she has absolutely no self-awareness.  I've got news for you R - you're not as smart as you think, you're not as pretty as you think, and you're definitely not as altruistic as you think.  I love how she thinks buying them a round of shooters shows how she's so selfless and such a great friend.

 

But she's a crazy bitch and you have to be a crazy bitch to survive on these Housewives shows.  The producers must realize, however, that you can't have all crazies and need to have some low-key sane people in there to balance it out, so I hope they keep everyone from this season.  

 

I agree Kristen always looks stunning and Carole looked the best I've seen her at the dinner.

[zoeysmom]

What I loved most about that was Ramona cracking up in response, and how that was the comment that resolved everything.

 

Poor Heather. Interestingly enough, the best response I've seen on an RH show in regards to a drunk person yelling at you was Brandi Glanville in S3 (?) of RHOBH. She just let Kim Richards rail her at the White Party, smiled, nodded, said 'You're right", and let Kim walk away. I found myself in a similar situation a month after that and I used that as my guide. My, how times have changed.

 

Bethenny just Tweeted that the reunion took 11 hours to tape.

Ten of the eleven hours of the Reunion  being Bethenny talking.  Last night she sounded like a seal with the, "arc, arc. arc."  Bethenny creates half the drama.  She told Sonja and Ramona to buzz off and then look like a goof when she ran away from them and started saying Ramona was manic.  I am seeing the Reunion co-hosted by Andy Cohen and Bethenny Frankel in five parts.

Edited July 8, 2015 by zoeysmom

[Mozelle]

Dorinda started with the mother part first...that her mother would be embarrassed if she talked like that. In what world would it possibly be considered wrong for Heather to counter with the fact that her own mother didn't have a problem with her cursing? 

 

Oh, you know in what world. ;)

 

I've seen this referenced a couple of times here and I'm out of the loop on this one. Did Lu's daughter do that, or has Lu done it herself?

 

Ahhh. Motorcitymom beat me to it. 

[ghoulina]

Seriously, why all the fuss on here & in this ep about Moaner being rude?  I mean, did ya just meet Moaner?  Er, Moaner breathing = Moaner being rude.  That's just who she is.  And that's all, folks.

 

You're right. They should all know better by now. But I suppose it's probably easier to brush her off when you see her at a party once a week and she does something tacky - as opposed to being stuck on an island with her for a week, and her rude behavior knows no bounds. I reckon they were just getting fed up. 

[zoeysmom]

I agree - Ramona was extemely rude to both Carole and Bethenny, but on the other hand, was the bar owner equally as rude?  He had to know beforehand that Ramona was a friend of Carole's and Bethenny's - we didn't see it, but I guess we can assume that one of them introduced Ramona to him when she sashayed her way up to them.

 

He, as well, could have angled himself and Ramona back towards Carole and Bethenny.  He didn't have to completely exclude them from the conversation.  So, while Ramona was rude to her friends, he was, too.

If he was terribly interested in either continuing the conversation with either Bethenny or Carole he would have suggested they all return to their table-the one that is well lit with lights for filming.  If Bethenny and Carole were so bothered-(BTW what happened to the drinks they were making/have made for the rest?) one of these quick witted women could have said-oh I see Ramona has joined us.  I think Bethenny and Carole were ready to embark on a  little Greek Chorus action and the guy wasn't interested.   Sometimes their comments aren't terribly witty. What is making me a little nuts is Carole just confronting Ramona in front of everyone and then LuAnn bragging how they punished Ramona by "freezing her out".  I think Carole and Bethenny and Ramona kind of objectified John.  This people are maybe the worst group of friends - ever.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Now, will Satan Andy listen to the NY Post?  I never do, but he might-

 

http://nypost.com/2015/07/08/even-bethenny-cant-save-real-housewives-of-new-york/

[WireWrap]

Dorinda was for sure a drooling, slurring, yelling, swearing mess, but the only thing she said to Heather about her mother was "I've met your mother, and she's a beautiful woman." Then later, after Heather had made remarks about Dorinda's mom being proud of her now, as she was leaving, "we come from the same place Heather, we have good mothers, we have good things, don't ever be like...."

Dorinda never said Heather was an embarassment to her own mother.

Do you really think LuAnn and Dorinda were calling Heather a good mom and a good daughter? Do you really think they were complimenting her? Really?  They attacked her as a mom and as a daughter with Dorinda going at her the hardest because LuAnn heard Heathers warning and recognized her tone of voice and backed off. Dorinda, on the other hand, went in even harder because she is much like Ramona, "do as I say, not as I do". As others here have pointed out, she could have said far more about LuAnn's daughter and LuAnn's absente parenting skills but refrained herself. Saying that Hannah swears/F bomb is not something new, we have seen/heard the bleeping several times when Hannah has been on this season. LuAnn and Dorinda crossed a big NO NO line in attacking/questioning another HW's parenting, something that is laughable when it comes to LuAnn because of the umbrage she had when Ramona questioned hers a few years ago on camera!  JMO

 

ETA, Yes, Dorinda did by saying  "HER mother would be embarrassed if she swore in front of her", she insinuated that Heathers mother is or should be embarrassed buy Heather's language. Cold and nasty IMO.

Edited July 8, 2015 by WireWrap

[KFC]

Oh yea, Ramona is literally the original shit-stirrer. She was doing it before we even knew who Brandi Glanville was or that there was a surrogacy to reveal. She has always gotten away with it because the other girls just eventually forgive her. I have always thought that should the other ladies ever really decide they've had enough and turn on her, she would be toast. I think they don't because having Ramona around does have it's benefits: anyone filming with her pretty much always comes out looking better than Ramona does.

It's interesting that you bring up the Ramona/Brandi shit-stirring comparisons because that reminds me of one of the big reasons I prefer NY over BH: they move on quicker.

And I actually think makes for more interesting TV when the HWs forgive and move on. The storylines move at a quicker pace, and there's more potential for the unexpected. Alliances shift and it's harder to predict what will happen next when they let go of the grudges... Because inevitably some new shit will hit the fan. It's like a constant reboot, which I much prefer over a season-long grudge between warring 'wives.

[Sincerely Yours]

I agree with you there, but everytime Heather "gently" grasps someone's arm to remove them from a situation, I just get the feeling that once again, she is trying to "fix" or "mother" someone.  It's like she is treating everyone like a child who is having a temper tantrum in a restaurant, and the Mom takes the child outside to calm them down.

 

I guess it's a good thing, because she doesn't want someone to make a total ass of themselves on TV (as Dorinda was on the way to doing).  I'm not always a fan of Heather's, but in these type of situations, her take-charge attitude and actions are coming from a good place.

But if she's on the other end of the discord, or the one that's involved in the conversation that's caused the distress then why wouldn't she consider herself the person to make it better if she had an integral part in it? If she was just dragging housewives off camera who are having heated discussions with other wives then yeah she's being a mommy buttinsky but if she's trying to handle a situation that she's is the other half of then it's well within her right to try and make amends or apologies for her part in it. That's how I take Heathers actions when trying to descalate and discuss something privately. Plus, she's trying to take control of it right away instead of having it just linger in the air and turn into a whole different story later when other people want to repeat their versions of what's happening.

 

I do agree that she's coming from a good place.

I did not think they were calling Heather a "bad mom" and certainly not a bad daughter. LuAnn brought up Ella and Heather was in the right to shut that down IMO, (although she didn't really....she kind of kept the discussion going). Heather brought up her own mother first. Dorinda never brought up anyone in Heather's family until Heather brought up Hannah.

ETA: I understand why Heather was upset, I wish she would have responded in the moment to LuAnn like she did in her TH. Getting into it with Dorinda about Dorinda's child and then inviting a discussion about her own mother was the wrong way to go IMO. She should have stuck to discussing Dorinda and LuAnn's actions. LuAnn was the one stirring it up and she really let her off the hook IMO.

Insinuations are a big part of the human language, social interactions and most importantly "The Real Housewives" universe and the one's in question right now weren't even of the subtle variety. They were pretty glaring, without specific words being used. Just saying.

[Bossa Nova]

 

 

It's interesting that you bring up the Ramona/Brandi shit-stirring comparisons because that reminds me of one of the big reasons I prefer NY over BH: they move on quicker.

And I actually think makes for more interesting TV when the HWs forgive and move on. The storylines move at a quicker pace, and there's more potential for the unexpected. Alliances shift and it's harder to predict what will happen next when they let go of the grudges... Because inevitably some new shit will hit the fan. It's like a constant reboot, which I much prefer over a season-long grudge between warring 'wives.

 

That is a really good observation, KFC. The diff between NY and the other franchises. Plus the clothing is better most of the time, and makeup/hair not overdone. ;)

[imjagain]

Oh yea, Ramona is literally the original shit-stirrer. She was doing it before we even knew who Brandi Glanville was or that there was a surrogacy to reveal. She has always gotten away with it because the other girls just eventually forgive her. I have always thought that should the other ladies ever really decide they've had enough and turn on her, she would be toast. I think they don't because having Ramona around does have it's benefits: anyone filming with her pretty much always comes out looking better than Ramona does.

One of the reasons I have always thought people are quick to forgive Ramona is, she makes them so uncomfortable when she is apologizing lol. She starts tearing up and spazing out. It's uncomfortable to watch, let alone having the person right in front of you. I'd even be like, ok, ok, it's fine.

[Crikey]

You're right. They should all know better by now. But I suppose it's probably easier to brush her off when you see her at a party once a week and she does something tacky - as opposed to being stuck on an island with her for a week, and her rude behavior knows no bounds. I reckon they were just getting fed up. 

Dang, you described the way I deal with my sister!  lol

She has suggested we all go on a 4 day cruise and I am trying to figure out a way to get out of going.

I am too scared to ask if she wants to fit the four of us in one cabin.  :(

[shoegal]

Do you really think LuAnn and Dorinda were calling Heather a good mom and a good daughter? Do you really think they were complimenting her? Really?  They attacked her as a mom and as a daughter with Dorinda going at her the hardest because LuAnn heard Heathers warning and recognized her tone of voice and backed off. Dorinda, on the other hand, went in even harder because she is much like Ramona, "do as I say, not as I do". As others here have pointed out, she could have said far more about LuAnn's daughter and LuAnn's absente parenting skills but refrained herself. Saying that Hannah swears/F bomb is not something new, we have seen/heard the bleeping several times when Hannah has been on this season. LuAnn and Dorinda crossed a big NO NO line in attacking/questioning another HW's parenting, something that is laughable when it comes to LuAnn because of the umbrage she had when Ramona questioned hers a few years ago on camera!  JMO

Did I think they were complimenting her? No, and I never said that. I do not think they were calling her a bad mother or a bad daughter. I do think they were trying to shame her for using fuck, and Heather was rightly pissed for that.

[motorcitymom65]

If he was terribly interested in either continuing the conversation with either Bethenny or Carole he would have suggested they all return to their table-the one that is well lit with lights for filming.  If Bethenny and Carole were so bothered-(BTW what happened to the drinks they were making/have made for the rest?) one of these quick witted women could have said-oh I see Ramona has joined us.  I think Bethenny and Carole were ready to embark on a  little Greek Chorus action and the guy wasn't interested.   Sometimes their comments aren't terribly witty. What is making me a little nuts is Carole just confronting Ramona in front of everyone and then LuAnn bragging how they punished Ramona by "freezing her out".  I think Carole and Bethenny and Ramona kind of objectified John.  This people are maybe the worst group of friends - ever.

But it wasn't about the guy. It wasn't about what he did, didn't do, or should have done. They don't know him, don't care about him, and will never see him again. It's not about how this random guy could have included the others into the conversation, or could have come over to the table. He is meaningless here. It is about Ramona. It is about the way that she acted to her friends. If I go to a club with a girlfriend, and she ends up leaving me alone and hanging with a guy all night long, I don't blame the guy. I blame my friend. This situation is not exactly the same because no one was left alone, but the analogy sticks. Ramona was the one who did the rude thing. 

 

And they are all much better friends to Ramona than she has ever been to any one of them. I think this is their point. She always treats everyone like shit and at some point folks just get tired of it. 

 

The funny thing is that I completely expected this to be a redemption season for Ramona. She looked like such a giant jackass last year, and then had a horrible showing at the reunion. I expected that with her divorce she would make a much more sympathetic character.  Leave it to Ramona to screw up what should have been a slam dunk season by being herself. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[shoegal]

Insinuations are a big part of the human language, social interactions and most importantly "The Real Housewives" universe and the one's in question right now weren't even of the subtle variety. They were pretty glaring, without specific words being used. Just saying.

That's the thing about insinuations, they are open to interpretation by their very nature. With the HW shows, I like to go by what is actually said. Edited July 8, 2015 by shoegal

[kassa]

Wasn’t it Ramona who also brought up the fact that some underage girl was drunk at LuAnn’s son’s party and the cops came or something?  It’s a wonder the Countess hasn’t shanked her.

 

I liked Kristen grabbing the bottle of wine and pretending she needed to drink it all during the "F"fight.

 

 

My favorite moment.  I do think she goes too far with the O face, but I was with her in that moment.  I don't think she was trying to steal the camera -- I think she was having a moment with the server, apologizing for the obnoxious behavior of her tablemates.  Who among us would not sneak the server a sympathetic grimace if that insanity was going on?  He was laughing -- he knew it was her way of apologizing.  It felt very real to me and I liked her.

 

I feel like by apologizing to her, they are basically telling Sonja, "Oh, we're so sorry for saying you are an alcoholic and like to get shitfaced to the point of needing assistance to stay upright.  That never happens!  We were so wrong!  Go ahead, girl, and drink up! 

You can totally handle your alcohol!" and that's so not the case

 

 

I felt the same way, but I suppose it was their way of apologizing for doing it on camera.  In real life, of course, with a real friend, you'd say "maybe you don't get fall down drunk when you're not around me.  But you DO get fall down drunk when you ARE around me, and I end up feeling responsible for you because I'm worried about your safety, and then I get resentful because you refuse to see the imposition.  So fine, I won't bring it up any more, but I won't drink with you any more, either."

 

That option isn't open to these women, sadly.

 

I wish she would have asked Lu if she had wanted her daughter to be filmed using the "n" word.

 

 

She could call LuAnn out without actually calling out the daughter by saying “Glass houses, LuAnn, glass houses” with a knowing look.  It’s more subtle than the Kim Richards patented “You don’t want me to say what I know” threat, but even when plastered, Luann would get it.

 

I kind of wish Bethenny had been there for that dinner. I think she would have made a joke of the whole thing and mocked Lu and Dorinda, which is more fun to watch than Heather's (completely justified) offense to their implications.

 

 

I think Heather did try to diffuse it several times, but they smelled blood and a gang up and weren’t letting it go.  The only thing she didn’t try (or we didn’t see her try) was a passive aggressive “Yup, curse like a sailor.  Always did, always will. Pass the fucking salt, please.”

 

Dorinda started with the mother part first...that her mother would be embarrassed if she talked like that.

 

What were her words – that her mother brought her up to be fucking klassy?  Only she didn’t say fucking or classy.  I forget the word she used, but together with the flying spittle and the windmill arms she might as well have been saying fucking klassy.

[Muffyn]

I would much rather have Heather try to lead me out of the room to stop things from escalating further than have Ramona come up, put her hands on my face and do her whole grabby-grabby bellow-in-my-face extravaganza.  There are so many times on these shows that a tranquilizer dart is really called for. 

 

I assume Dorinda mixed up her lip gloss and glue.  How else did that one grain of rice stay so well adhered to her lip?

 

For the Europeans, may I add:  merde!  va te faire foutre! Foutre le camp! Connard! Mierda! Tonto de los cojones! Vete al carajo! Vete al tomar por et culo! Verpiss dich! Scheisse!  Merda! Neuk!  And should Bethenny want to repeat her STFU en francaise, “tu vas fermer ta putain de gueule!” 

 

This dinner will end perfectly if Dorinda leaves and someone comes to the table and slurs, “What are you doing here without Dorinda?”

[MMLEsq]

Heather's blog is up.  She's taking the high road (ETA: in it she's pushing Yummie, that's about it) and not addressing last night's episode.  LuAnn's blog is mildly critical of Ramona, Bethenny and Heather, but mostly pushes her new single.  

 

I'm very curious to read how Dorinda tries to spin things if/when she posts a blog.

Edited July 8, 2015 by MMLEsq

[Bossa Nova]

 

There are so many times on these shows that a tranquilizer dart is really called for.

 

Laughing out loud here, Muffyn. Thank you for that. :)

Edited July 8, 2015 by Bossa Nova

[ghoulina]

Did I think they were complimenting her? No, and I never said that. I do not think they were calling her a bad mother or a bad daughter. I do think they were trying to shame her for using fuck, and Heather was rightly pissed for that.

 

I don't think they were necessarily trying to say Heather was a BAD mother, but I do think they were trying to imply that a "good mother" wouldn't be so liberal with the use of the word "fuck". IMO, there was a lot of insinuation going on there, and I would have got bristly as well. 

[lunastartron]

Dorinda didn't need Heather to lead her anywhere. She was already on her way out the door when Heather ran after her and grabbed her. That's not preventing escalation of a conflict, it's perpetuating it - how could the dispute escalate if Dorinda removed herself in order to locate some self-control privately? And it takes a Cyclopean effort to make "my mother would be disgusted with *me*" into "your mom is a bad mother." It's like one woman saying "I'm not joining you at the strip club because I don't think that's the best thing for me and my husband" and the rest demanding "are you saying we're sluts?!" Dorinda never brought Heather's mother up derogatorily -and she only mentioned her after Heather herself had introduced her into the discourse - and never referred to Ella. And yet Heather is supposedly befuddled about why on earth Dorinda might become upset at explicitly pejorative remarks about her relationship with her own mother.

[Muffyn]

What Sonja hears herself saying:  “You need to let me go”.
What Sonja sees:  Her ex with tears in his eyes.
What everyone else heard Sonja saying:  “Are you sure you don’t want me?  I’ll do anything.  Anything!  Remember the butt stuff?”
What everyone else sees:  Her ex trying to get away from her as quickly as possible.

If there were any tears in his eyes it was either from the booze fumes coming off of her or his sadness at how out of touch she has become.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Well, it's not the first time I've disagreed with the NY Post and it won't be the last, though I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Bravo today. I've really enjoyed this season and am surprised the ratings are so low. When the article mentioned Abu Dhabi as though it were a high point my reaction, and I'm being totally honest, was "When did they go to -- oh, the year when they had that lady with the teeth."

Sure, Kristen is kind of a non-entity. Yes, there was the whole Aviva debacle. For God's sake, though, Luann fucked a pirate. Heather made the statement "You can't tell me nothin', motherfucker," repeatedly at a fancy Hamptons party. Ramona is sauntering around in a yellow bikini from 1985. Dorinda lectures people about class with a piece of cod on her face in the middle of a blackout. Carole is dating a sperm. What do people want?

(I know he's 28, I just like to joke).

Edited July 8, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[WireWrap]

Here is a link to the story.  I am keeping it in this thread since we are talking about appropriate words for daughter's to use, as per the narrative of this episode. 

 

Lu's daughter did it I think in S4. She was basically caught on camera using the "n" word and rolling what looked to be a joint. The most interesting part of this story is that the one and only Ramona Singer is the one who posted a link to the video on Twitter that got it noticed to begin with.  Lu's daughter was kicked out of school right after (Lu denied she was kicked out). This was a huge part of the issues between Lu and Ramona, and I believe why when Lu says things like "I will never forget what Ramona has done to me", this is what she is referring too. 

 

http://absurdtosublime.net/2011/05/21/luann-de-lesseps-daughter-thrown-out-of-school/

A perfect example of HYPOCRITE LuAnn! She should never, ever, question any other mother about their parenting!

 

 

I don't disagree, but I suspect they're gonna make changes.  And Kristen, Carole & Heather seem to be the most likely ones (to me) on the chopping block to make room for new ones.  I'd like to see some younger ones & a better mix of ethnic backgrounds.  That's the way it is in NYC -- yeah, even in upper-crust Manhattan.  And the show should reflect that.

Unfortunately, I suspect that you are right and they will keep Ramona, Sonja, LuAnn, Dorinda and possibly Bethenny (if she doesn't get her own show) and that Heather, Kristen and possibly Carole are on the chopping block. IMO, Andy has it backwards in who should stay and who should go. JMO

 

 

If he was terribly interested in either continuing the conversation with either Bethenny or Carole he would have suggested they all return to their table-the one that is well lit with lights for filming.  If Bethenny and Carole were so bothered-(BTW what happened to the drinks they were making/have made for the rest?) one of these quick witted women could have said-oh I see Ramona has joined us.  I think Bethenny and Carole were ready to embark on a  little Greek Chorus action and the guy wasn't interested.   Sometimes their comments aren't terribly witty. What is making me a little nuts is Carole just confronting Ramona in front of everyone and then LuAnn bragging how they punished Ramona by "freezing her out".  I think Carole and Bethenny and Ramona kind of objectified John.  This people are maybe the worst group of friends - ever.

Maybe, Bethenny was doing a sales pitch for her SG  booze line and he had enough! That said, Ramona was still rude and she is the one that should have made the effort with B/C, not the bar owner, IMO.

[njmama]

Dorinda is one ugly, angry drunk. I like her normally, she and Carole seem to be the voice of reason on this show. Heather, who usually grates my nerves with her condescending tone, I actually side with. That escalated quickly and for no reason at all. Loved that she called Lu out too.

Another thing I can't stand is Ramona's quilty explanation faces. Wtf is that with the over enunciated speaking, facial spasms, spastic blinking....she looks freakish!

[RedheadZombie]

So much has happened that this didn't get mentioned.  In the scene in which Carole and Kristen run toward the ocean, Carole turns around while Kristen dives in, then Kristen victoriously jumps up and down.....  Kristen dove into the ocean in a black bikini, then stood up with a gold suite with black belt.  It drives me crazy how they unnecessarily screw with the editing.  It makes me distrust everything I see on these shows.

 

ETA:  So the gold suite was Kristen's skin, and the black belt was her fallen down bikini top.  Thanks everyone for the correction!

Edited July 8, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[WireWrap]

Did I think they were complimenting her? No, and I never said that. I do not think they were calling her a bad mother or a bad daughter. I do think they were trying to shame her for using fuck, and Heather was rightly pissed for that.

What I heard LuAnn and Dorinda say to Heather was...........A "good mother" does not use the F word, you use the F word therefore you are "not" a good mother. A "good daughter" does not swear in front of their mother, you swear in front of your mother, therefore you are "not"  a good daughter. They accused Heather of swearing in front of both her daughter and mother then both of the drunk idiots said that "good mothers/daughters" do not do that, IMO, that IS saying she, Heather was bad at both!

[biakbiak]

So much has happened that this didn't get mentioned. In the scene in which Carole and Kristen run toward the ocean, Carole turns around while Kristen dives in, then Kristen victoriously jumps up and down..... Kristen dove into the ocean in a black bikini, then stood up with a gold suite with black belt. It drives me crazy how they unnecessarily screw with the editing. It makes me distrust everything I see on these shows.

She had the same suit it wasn't a black belt it was her bikini top which had fallen down when she dove in the "gold suit" was the editors blurring her breasts.

Edited July 8, 2015 by biakbiak

[Crikey]

So much has happened that this didn't get mentioned.  In the scene in which Carole and Kristen run toward the ocean, Carole turns around while Kristen dives in, then Kristen victoriously jumps up and down.....  Kristen dove into the ocean in a black bikini, then stood up with a gold suite with black belt.  It drives me crazy how they unnecessarily screw with the editing.  It makes me distrust everything I see on these shows.

n/m  biakbiak answered it

Edited July 8, 2015 by Crikey

[RedheadZombie]

Well that's interesting.  Kristen didn't seem the type to flash her boobs - that's more Luann's style.

[biakbiak]

I don't think it was intentional it's just what can happen when strapless bikini top meets ocean, she turned around and dove back in pretty quickly.

[Muffyn]

So much has happened that this didn't get mentioned.  In the scene in which Carole and Kristen run toward the ocean, Carole turns around while Kristen dives in, then Kristen victoriously jumps up and down.....  Kristen dove into the ocean in a black bikini, then stood up with a gold suite with black belt.  It drives me crazy how they unnecessarily screw with the editing.  It makes me distrust everything I see on these shows.

Actually when Kristen stood up, her top had slid down to her waist, giving you the impression that it was a belt.  Her boobs were blurred for TV.  LuAnn announced, "The convertible has opened up the roof".  So while they do often screw with the editing, that does not seem to be the case here.  

Edited July 8, 2015 by Muffyn

[AnnA]

[Neerbeena]

So much has happened that this didn't get mentioned.  In the scene in which Carole and Kristen run toward the ocean, Carole turns around while Kristen dives in, then Kristen victoriously jumps up and down.....  Kristen dove into the ocean in a black bikini, then stood up with a gold suite with black belt.  It drives me crazy how they unnecessarily screw with the editing.  It makes me distrust everything I see on these shows.

 

I thought I saw Kristen dive into the ocean in the black bikini and then she took her top off and they had to blur the boobs.

 

Update:  Guess I was late to the party.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Neerbeena

[shoegal]

What I heard LuAnn and Dorinda say to Heather was...........A "good mother" does not use the F word, you use the F word therefore you are "not" a good mother. A "good daughter" does not swear in front of their mother, you swear in front of your mother, therefore you are "not"  a good daughter. They accused Heather of swearing in front of both her daughter and mother then both of the drunk idiots said that "good mothers/daughters" do not do that, IMO, that IS saying she, Heather was bad at both!

I didn't hear anyone say anything about being a "good" mother or a "good" daughter. I think it's safe to say we came away with different takes on the conversation.