S01.E07: Betrayal

[KaveDweller]

Were we supposed to be anxious at the "suspense" of the kids being in the back of the truck with the bomb? Cause I really don't care what happens to the kids.

 

In fact, that's the problem with this series... I really don't care about ANY of them. I wouldn't have wanted to watch all season with no idea of what's going on, but if they wanted to do the big reveal 1/2 way through, then they needed to find a way to engage the audience for the rest of it and they haven't. Because they haven't given me a reason to care.

 

And why does Theresa think she and Kate are looking at things the same way? Hasn't Kate mentioned in Theresa's hearing that she (Kate) has been there for 12 years? Theresa KNOWS that isn't true. For that matter, why doesn't Kate realize that if 12 years have gone by, Theresa and Ethan should be older? Or if it's too hard to guess the ages of adults (even though they would be in her peer group) she ought to at least question why the son isn't a grown-up yet! He wasn't 3 when she had her affair with Ethan!... Are we supposed to believe she knew NOTHING about his family or that Ethan never mentioned his son in a way that indicated he was older than a toddler?

 

Gawd, this show is dumb.

 

In the earlier episodes, it was implied that Kate knew something about what was going on in town, and that was why she didn't question why she was the only one that aged 12 years.  And that that's why she turned in Juliet Lewis's character for talking about the past.  Now that we know she's clueless, I don't get why she hasn't questioned things or seemed okay with the reckoning.  When Ethan showed up and acted like he was a prisoner, the normal thing should have been to tell him about her little group.

 

But at this point they should just let the bombers leave.  They'll see the abbies and either die or come running back. I guess the town doesn't want to lose numbers, but if they are willing to reckon people they will do that anyway.

[Free]

 

I guess the town doesn't want to lose numbers, but if they are willing to reckon people they will do that anyway.

 

Exactly, their actions make no sense, no wonder there's a rebellion on its way.

[slothgirl]

If procreation is so damn important, why not just knock everyone of an appropriate age out, collect eggs and sperm, mix and match and implant.

Yeah really.. they could have done this while people were still out of it from being 1st unfrozen. They could have simply had all the women pregnant when they woke up. Of course, that might have really made some people question things (if they hadn't had sex recently or something) but TPTB don't seem to care about people not believing as long as they don't TALK about not believing.

[SoothingDave]

Why are we supposed to believe that Kate really got to an outside line and really got a voice mail message that wasn't 2000 years old?  Isn't everything manipulated?  How would she have gotten to a real "outside line" and how would it be any different from Ethan calling and leaving messages on his home answering machine for Theresa and Ben?

[FishyJoe]

Of all the things to bring to the 'future', they preserve a 1970's Chevy Vega??? And it's not the only 70's gas guzzler that I spotted.

 

And why didn't any of these bombers climb the mountain like Ethan did? Ethan has only been there a few days. They've had over a decade to do it. Or dig a tunnel, or hot air balloon?

 

What was in that biology book? Porn?

Edited July 3, 2015 by FishyJoe

[SoothingDave]

What was in that biology book? Porn?

I think ol' hypnoteacher would call it something like "frank depictions of human sexuality."

[Passenger58]

The lady that was packing her stuff into the car at the housing place, she said she's leaving ? Where exactly is she leaving to? I recon that plot 33 has a chamber that takes you back in time. to the real world.

Or

His sister being a drug addict, has he kidnapped all these people and drugged them with some new drug that makes them dream all this ?

[Happytobehere]

At this point, I'm still enjoying the show. However, Ethan just comes across as a massive jerk, and having seen MD in numerous things, I know it's not an actor issue, Ethan is told to tell no one, so he tells Theresa (which I guess speaks well for the state of their marriage). He then tells Kate. This shows Ethan is not worthy of the trust being placed in him, he is dim, or it's a combination of both.

I don't believe tho 4048 reveal is true, at the very least, it's is not the complete truth.

I assume the baby push in not just about populating WP, but also ensuring that the forced families are truly bound together.

That bomb was uber lame. If that's the best they came do to escape, the rebels are doomed.

[grandemocha]

Damn, I was watching this episode and just kept wanting Kate to kick Ethan's ass especially when he was manhandling her in the jail scene. He was kind of a huge asshole during all of it. Obviously he knows they are in the future, and we know they are in the future (4028), but can he really blame Kate and Theresa for not believing him? Especially with his history of mental issues?

 

Kate has obviously seen some fucked up stuff the past 12 years and is desperate to leave, that's totally understandable. She seems like she'd be willing to die for the cause at this point, and that's something I can sort of admire.

[Passenger58]

I can't think of one reason that asshole would be there for the brave new world except that He is someone important's brother-in-law.

Amy was really ready to do her biology homework. ;-) And ditto on what a lame ass bomb!

I want the 4028 to be bullshit, too. I'd like to see a bunch of "Abbies" on break, smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee.

Regarding the bomb,

I think it was made for someone to actually open the box listen to the music and then boom!

It was heading to the mountains, probably. A target they wanted dead.

When they met in the coffee shop he did say we are not murderers, so it was never made to blow up the fence. It also explains why the kids didn't die, they where protected by the rice bag and where far from it.

[Julie23]

I would actually like it if it really wasn't 2000 years in the future, because that would make more sense. From being frozen and having all the good stored all that time, I just doesn't add up. However, that doesn't explain the creepy sex education going on, or the abbies. What I like about this short series is that at least we don't have to wait long to find out!

Edited July 3, 2015 by Julie23

[Actionmage]

It was heading to the mountains, probably. A target they wanted dead.

 

People in town aren't supposed to be aware of the stuff in the mountain.  In fact, that's one of the big rules. Now, yes, the average adult wanting to leave their prison, would look at the entry and exit points of their jailers. Kate, being a federal agent who already thinks this way, makes sense as The Leader.  But unless there is more than a general 'he's a jailer' feeling toward the driver ( who I thought was one of The Bomb Group), then how was that bomb going to hurt anything?

 

If it was meant for Pam, then it was going the wrong way.

If it was meant for Pilcher/ Doc Jenkins, the group would have to know Jenkins didn't live in town. ( If either or both have "houses" in town, there is probably a way for them to slip away undetected.)

If it was meant to blow up the wall, then horny teens just had to meddle one more time.

If the bomb was meant for the  mountain complex, then the story is busted, to me, because in order to reach that conclusion, The Bomb Group had to reason out that people are living where the trucks are. Adult Waywardians are supposed to believe it is 21st century America outside the wall.  Either the bomb would blow up the driver,  where the driver had to leave the truck, and/or people where the truck is left,  or potentially an innocent. Look at Entitled Amy; all she saw was a music box. It looked like one I had as a young girl. If there was a woman around, she might have been drawn by nostalgia and turned the starter so she could hear the song.

 

I think it was made for someone to actually open the box listen to the music and then boom!

 

This^? ITA. If it wasn't meant for the wall, then I am guessing it was meant for Pam. She is the most hateful ( when you're on her bad side), assy, scary chicks in town. She would be one of the first up against that self-same wall when the revolution comes.

 

I also want to know the physics of a bomb that throws one person out of the  detonation area and the other person ends up not only standing, but mobile and, essentially, fine.  *sigh*

[Free]

 

However, Ethan just comes across as a massive jerk, and having seen MD in numerous things, I know it's not an actor issue, Ethan is told to tell no one, so he tells Theresa (which I guess speaks well for the state of their marriage). He then tells Kate. This shows Ethan is not worthy of the trust being placed in him, he is dim, or it's a combination of both.

 

It's a contrivance of keeping people in the dark to cause all these problems that they're bringing on themselves.

[FishyJoe]

I think ol' hypnoteacher would call it something like "frank depictions of human sexuality."

 

I can just imagine in 2014. Um, we're going to need some textbook to teach the future generations to procreate. Ok, lemme see. The cover will look like a regular biology textbook, but instead we'll scour the internet for porn to put inside. That should do it! We is genuses.

[jhlipton]

Of all the things to bring to the 'future', they preserve a 1970's Chevy Vega??? And it's not the only 70's gas guzzler that I spotted.

 

"Man's dependence on fossil fuel is what caused the mutation that wiped out mankind. That's why my Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow will  only have vehicles that run on fossil fuels (except for a few bikes)"  Yeah, that makes sense.

 

It occurred to mew how incredibly "privileged" these people are.  If you're not white, straight and cis <*>, you don't exist, There have been two black characters -- a woman in the rebellion who we saw only in shadows, and Pope, who was not part of the breeding plan.

 

Of course, if the goal was to repopulate the human race, they should have kidnapped at least 5 women (ages 18 <**> to 40) for each man,  The men would be instructed to get as many women as possible pregnant, and the women's main goal would to pump out as many kids as possible.  The Pilchers are obviously more into favoring hetero-binary relationships than populating the world.

 

=========================================

 

As to the biology book, I imagined it's same standard one used today, with the flaccid penis and x-ray vagina (How the hell does that work???)

 

<*> cis is the word used for "non-trans" people.  It is to "trans" what "straight" what lesbian/gay.

 

<**> 15 or younger would be more appropriate than 18 but I wanted to stay in more legal territory.

Edited July 4, 2015 by jhlipton

[legaleagle53]

"Man's dependence on fossil fuel is what caused the mutation that wiped out mankind. That's why my Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow will  only have vehicles that run on fossil fuels (except for a few bikes)"  Yeah, that makes sense.

 

It occurred to mew how incredibly "privileged" these people are.  If you're not white, straight and cis <*>, you don't exist, There have been two black characters -- a woman in the rebellion who we saw only in shadows, and Pope, who was not part of the breeding plan.

 

Of course, if the goal was to repopulate the human race, they should have kidnapped at least 5 women (ages 18 <**> to 40) for each man,  The men would be instructed to get as many women as possible pregnant, and the women's main goal would to pump out as many kids as possible.  The Pilchers are obviously more into favoring hetero-binary relationships than populating the world.

 

=========================================

 

As to the biology book, I imagined it's same standard one used today, with the flaccid penis and x-ray vagina (How the hell does that work???)

 

<*> cis is the word used for "non-trans" people.  It is to "trans" what "straight" what lesbian/gay.

 

<**> 15 or younger would be more appropriate than 18 but I wanted to stay in more legal territory.

 

That's true.  In 2014 we had in vitro technology and the concept of surrogate parenting.  Why Pilcher would insist on only the old-fashioned way of reproducing instead of supplementing it with technology designed to facilitate the process, which would in turn speed up the achievement of his repopulation goal, is beyond me.

 

I also wonder how large he thinks each succeeding generation will have to be in order to eventually reclaim the earth from the Abbies -- and how he intends to expand Wayward Pines to accommodate the necessary growth while still maintaining the illusion of early 21st-Century America (even though the level of the town's technology is at least 40 years off).

[alias1]

So much of this story is making less and less sense.  If Dr Pilcher and Pam and the creepy biology teacher had gone about explaining this the right way,  they wouldn't have people rebelling or killing themselves.  I didn't buy the explanation that all those Group A people freaked out  (and why all at the same time).  By keeping people in the dark and punishing them for a minor offense, there was bound to be an insurrection eventually (I can't believe it took Kate 12 years).  And what was with all the hostility Pam had towards Ethan in the beginning?  Things that happened in the town in the first few episodes don't make sense now.  The whole thing with the kids is unnecessarily creepy.  I'm glad there are only 3 episodes left.

[Tabasco Cat]

I still really like this show. It's so disheartening to always read such negativity about so many different shows on this board. Why watch and comment then?

 

Well, for me I think that well over 90% of what's on TV is crap, so when something comes along that seems creative or different, that's the kind of show I'm likely to watch. When it turns out that it's same-ol' same-ol' I tend to get a little grumpy because I was expecting something better. Of all the shows on the main page of previously.tv I am never watching more than one or two of them. I consider myself someone who doesn't love any old garbage on TV. Most shows deserve to be criticized and people who are negative toward them are just, in my considered opinion, being realistic. Most shows disappoint.

[grandemocha]

 

Well, for me I think that well over 90% of what's on TV is crap, so when something comes along that seems creative or different, that's the kind of show I'm likely to watch.

..Wow, you must have really high standards. What do you watch and/or consider quality TV?

 

I see Wayward Pines for what it is: an enjoyable summer show that provides entertainment but won't go down as a classic. It beats reruns.

[Happytobehere]

I would actually like it if it really wasn't 2000 years in the future, because that would make more sense. From being frozen and having all the good stored all that time, I just doesn't add up. However, that doesn't explain the creepy sex education going on, or the abbies. What I like about this short series is that at least we don't have to wait long to find out!

Tell that to viewers of Under the Dome. They were promised to have the answers at the end of the initial run. It's what, three years later and still no end or answers in sight. It's amazing how the prospect of additional seasons makes show runners forget that they promised to reveal all.

[jaigurudeva]

Things that happened in the town in the first few episodes don't make sense now.

Ugh. The reveal is supposed to have everything mysterious in the beginning make sense in hindsight, but the opposite has happened here. 'Mystery' for the sake of mysteriousness, when it does not add to (and in fact detracts from) the story is just bad writing. Why 'reckon' perfectly virile women and men, because they start talking about their pasts? Why not make them disappear, and have the hypnotist brainwash them back into submission? (I know that's not how hypnotism works, but it would be a much shorter cord from which to suspend my disbelief than what they've gone with.) Why kidnap people and separate them from their partners (finaceés, husbands, wives) with whom they would have been more willing to procreate and less likely to escape to get back to? And their children, who could have been part of their (vile) baby-making-teens scheme?

And why are they teaching the kids to procreate NOW, before they've been taught agriculture, architecture, medicine, etc, to feed, house, and care for the next generation? They're putting the horse before the carriage; trying to finish one's education and establish a career to contribute to their small, dystopian society as a teen parent is much more difficult than becoming established adults and then having a family. And why aren't there more people of Asian, Latino, and Black descent amongst the gene pool, for greater genetic diversity? This town is soon going to be home to many more generic 'aberrations' after a few generations...

[Free]

Tell that to viewers of Under the Dome. They were promised to have the answers at the end of the initial run. It's what, three years later and still no end or answers in sight. It's amazing how the prospect of additional seasons makes show runners forget that they promised to reveal all.

 

Yeah, they promised 'answers' this season.  Instead, they just keep making a worse mess each season.  It's why I'm wary about these kinds of shows and their longevity.  Sure they could go on, but with things like this, they shouldn't.

 

 

Ugh. The reveal is supposed to have everything mysterious in the beginning make sense in hindsight, but the opposite has happened here. 'Mystery' for the sake of mysteriousness, when it does not add to (and in fact detracts from) the story is just bad writing.

 

Sadly, these types of shows have been disappointing and/or straight up suck, I remember when it was more rampant during/post-Lost, all these shows tried to be uber mysterious and it ended up backfiring and people lost interest.

[Tabasco Cat]

..Wow, you must have really high standards. What do you watch and/or consider quality TV?

 

Whatever you're not watching. BA DUM DUM SSSSSSssss... Thank you, I'll be here all week!

[SlackerInc]

I was actually quite enjoying this episode until around the halfway mark when Ethan's wife went back to talking to Bill the realty guy about her snooping.  He has shown absolutely no indication in the past that he is interested in what she has to say or that it would be in any way fruitful to talk to him. So WTF is she doing?

 

Also, the fertility checkup: "We have a married couple, young, fertile, in their prime"...huh?  How young was Kate 12 years ago?

 

"How did the rebels know that Ethan would take that side street ?"

 

Fair question, Otto.  There shouldn't have been any reason to even think he was onto the truck.  That was just TV cheese to amp up the action.

 

There was something that looked like a stack of bags of cement between the teens and the bomb, so their not being shredded I do somewhat buy.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I see Wayward Pines for what it is: an enjoyable summer show that provides entertainment but won't go down as a classic. It beats reruns.

 

That's my approach to watching as well. Plus? Matt Dillon! 

After this is done, maybe I'll seek out Harper's Island again. 

[SlackerInc]

As this show winds down, the thing that is really bugging me is that there were so many weird things going on initially that will probably go forever unexplained.  For example, Beverly….How did she know where Ethan could find the dead FBI agent's body, and what did she mean when she said she had always believed him?  And why on earth were the dead bodies placed in a rundown dilapidated house anyway?  These are just a couple of the many things I was curious about that I doubt will play out with only 3 episodes left. 

 

Yeah, while I do still enjoy the show, there are definitely elements from the first few episodes that are almost sure in retrospect to look like stuff that was only there to add to the "mysterious town" atmosphere, logic be damned.

 

And as far as baby-making goes, if it has been 12 years for Group B of, let's say 5,000 people (total guess) and only 2 people have finally given in and decided to have sex, there might be a problem with the evil doctor's plan to procreate.  Clearly nobody in "volunteer world" is doing the deed either. White middle-class suburban humanity is on its way out, as far as I can tell, despite all of the nice appliances.

 

I thought those were just this week's (or maybe this month's?) numbers, not the sum total for 12 years.  Remember, we saw the one guy's widow had a baby, and the nurses were shown with one as well in an earlier episode.

 

And what was with all the hostility Pam had towards Ethan in the beginning?  Things that happened in the town in the first few episodes don't make sense now..

 

Yup, another good example.  The threat to torture him during surgery was especially heinous.  And we still don't know what kind of surgery they were going to do, nor why Pilcher no longer seems to want Ethan to get it.

[grandemocha]

That's my approach to watching as well. Plus? Matt Dillon!

After this is done, maybe I'll seek out Harper's Island again.

 

OT: I just started watching Harper's Island again, and I'm sort of amazed by the level of gore/violence they were able to get away with on CBS. That show also wasn't a classic, but damn was it a good ride. The exact concept I can enjoy: a limited run with 12/13 episodes and it's finished.

 

I like the majority of the adult characters in WP, but the kids like Ben and Amy bore me. 

[Cheyanne11]

The person walking with a dog threw me.  Where did she get a dog?  Were dogs frozen, too?  Seemed strange to me.

[iMonrey]

 

Also, the fertility checkup: "We have a married couple, young, fertile, in their prime"...huh?  How young was Kate 12 years ago?

 

Yeah, I stumbled over that line myself. Her husband has gray hair. I'm not saying she's beyond child bearing age, but describing them as a "young couple" is awfully generous.

 

 

I still really like this show. It's so disheartening to always read such negativity about so many different shows on this board. Why watch and comment then?

 

If it was the sort of story I wasn't interested in watching, I just wouldn't watch. But this premise has promise. And about four episodes in, I thought it was doing pretty well. Now it seems to be falling apart. Since it's only got a few more episodes left I'll stick with it just to see how it plays out. But it's frustrating to watch something that has real potential and then see that potential squandered. And forums like this one are ideal for expressing and sharing that frustration.

 

The problem with Ethan is that he did a crap job "selling" this story of 4028 to Theresa and Kate. He was entirely too blase about it, as though it were something he'd moved so far past it didn't even concern him anymore. He was so focused on preventing the bombing he didn't seem to care about whether Theresa and Kate believed him, it was more like "Seattle? Oh, that's gone. Where's my coat? Gotta go." I'd think he'd been brainwashed or something too.

[Free]

If it was the sort of story I wasn't interested in watching, I just wouldn't watch. But this premise has promise. And about four episodes in, I thought it was doing pretty well. Now it seems to be falling apart. Since it's only got a few more episodes left I'll stick with it just to see how it plays out. But it's frustrating to watch something that has real potential and then see that potential squandered. And forums like this one are ideal for expressing and sharing that frustration.

 

Agreed, it was a huge letdown, it lost its luster after the twist/backstory/secret of WP was revealed and now we're stuck with this rebel/bomb plot that I couldn't care less about especially being ahead of the people who are still in the dark.

 

 

The problem with Ethan is that he did a crap job "selling" this story of 4028 to Theresa and Kate. He was entirely too blase about it, as though it were something he'd moved so far past it didn't even concern him anymore. He was so focused on preventing the bombing he didn't seem to care about whether Theresa and Kate believed him, it was more like "Seattle? Oh, that's gone. Where's my coat? Gotta go." I'd think he'd been brainwashed or something too.

 

It's yet more contrivance, there's no reason to be mysterious/cagey anymore, they're just setting themselves up to obviously backfire.

[jhlipton]

 

And as far as baby-making goes, if it has been 12 years for Group B of, let's say 5,000 people (total guess) and only 2 people have finally given in and decided to have sex, there might be a problem with the evil doctor's plan to procreate.  Clearly nobody in "volunteer world" is doing the deed either. White middle-class suburban humanity is on its way out, as far as I can tell, despite all of the nice appliances.

 

 

I thought those were just this week's (or maybe this month's?) numbers, not the sum total for 12 years.  Remember, we saw the one guy's widow had a baby, and the nurses were shown with one as well in an earlier episode.

 

Bill Evans had a daughter while in WP, so Pam's statement of having the "first" of the new generation didn't make a lick of sense, and she was far too excited for it to be just the first of that week, month or year. And it wasn't meant to be jarring -- her brother didn't say "What about these other kids?" Another bit of really bad writing.

I guess it proves that we have to accept all the other occurrences of what seemed like contradictory information as just really bad writing.

 

 

[theatremouse]

I didn't think her enthusiasm sounded like these two were the first two babies ever. I also don't remember her saying they were the only two for the next generation. I thought it was more like +2yay!. Bill Evans' baby would be young enough to qualify as same generation as two babies currently in utero.

The problem I have with all the "generation" language is either the there-because-abducted teens are the "first" generation, or babies born there are. They can't both be. Get a better cult name, Amy!

[FishyJoe]

And why are they teaching the kids to procreate NOW, before they've been taught agriculture, architecture, medicine, etc, to feed, house, and care for the next generation? They're putting the horse before the carriage; trying to finish one's education and establish a career to contribute to their small, dystopian society as a teen parent is much more difficult than becoming established adults and then having a family. And why aren't there more people of Asian, Latino, and Black descent amongst the gene pool, for greater genetic diversity? This town is soon going to be home to many more generic 'aberrations' after a few generations...

 

They have the magic elves / volunteers to provide everything to them on a silver platter. The magic elves have been able to build the town from a wasteland and feed not only themselves but everyone in the town for at least 15-20 years. Who am I to nitpick, it's obviously better to train a bunch of kidnapped, brainwashed kids to rebuild the world than the magic elves. 

[SlackerInc]

He was so focused on preventing the bombing he didn't seem to care about whether Theresa and Kate believed him, it was more like "Seattle? Oh, that's gone. Where's my coat? Gotta go."

 

I literally LOL'd at this line.

 

Agreed, it was a huge letdown, it lost its luster after the twist/backstory/secret of WP was revealed and now we're stuck with this rebel/bomb plot that I couldn't care less about especially being ahead of the people who are still in the dark.

 

This criticism I disagree with.  I like that they did the reveal, and I'm perfectly open to enjoy storylines in this world even without any mystery or twists at all.  I would like them to be good, internally consistent storylines, but with a few caveats I'm interested in the rebel/bomb plot.

 

 

I didn't think her enthusiasm sounded like these two were the first two babies ever. I also don't remember her saying they were the only two for the next generation. I thought it was more like +2yay!. Bill Evans' baby would be young enough to qualify as same generation as two babies currently in utero.

The problem I have with all the "generation" language is either the there-because-abducted teens are the "first" generation, or babies born there are. They can't both be. Get a better cult name, Amy!

 

Yes, and to muddy things even more, there was talk in the Biology class about the babies these teens would have as being the "first truly native generation" or something like that.  But still: no.  Any babies born so far would be "first generation" as I would use it (meaning the teens really aren't that), whether they are born to teens or to an older couple.  What would really be a distinctly new thing is when babies are born to parents who were born in WP, making them second generation.

 

I guess though that I can concede that my definition, while technically correct, doesn't get at what her real point is: an entire family in which the children don't have to keep secrets from their parents.  And as much as I dislike all of Pilcher's Stalinist surveillance state tactics, there is presumably an endgame of all the older abducted people dying off and the surveillance and renderings being no longer necessary.

[Free]

 

This criticism I disagree with.  I like that they did the reveal, and I'm perfectly open to enjoy storylines in this world even without any mystery or twists at all.  I would like them to be good, internally consistent storylines, but with a few caveats I'm interested in the rebel/bomb plot.

 

I have a big problem with it because it relies on the people staying in the dark for all this contrived drama and in the end, the outcome doesn't matter since they're doomed either way.  They can't go back to wherever they're from and they're surrounded by abbies no matter what anyone else does, so this time around, it's waiting for it to finally happen and sadly it's just not very interesting with the characters with the rebels or any of the other townspeople.

[potatoradio]

"Oh, don't worry, I disabled all the surveillance," says Ethan. Uh....what? I don't think even the Sheriff of Wayward would be allowed to disable all cameras/mics in his house. Just a little too easy.

 

It just keeps making less and less sense as to why Pilcher insists on keeping adults hostage in WP. What would he lose by letting Kate and the others beyond the fence? They're not having kids. They're not buying into this life. And how do they explain the necessity of fertility treatments to people? Just a friendly little custom we have here in WP - just being neighborly, checking up on your ovum and sperm. How do, neighbor? Popped any out yet??

 

By the way, why did they freeze a nurse uniform circa 1950 for Pam? Nurses in 2014 wear scrubs or nice pants/shirt. I would run screaming if I saw white stockings and the Florence Nightengale cap.

 

What kind of scientist is Pilcher? Is he a geneticist? A medical doctor? Physicist? Because I really need a bit more development of his character so he doesn't fall into "general mad scientist gone awry" stereotype. I'm still not convinced this isn't some kind of genetic experiment, but I still don't know why Pilcher is so diabolical. Or Pam, for that matter.

 

And, for real, how would relying on fossil fuels cause a genetic mutation? I haven't taken genetics recently, but I remember mutations being caused by UV light or radiation. Did we finally burn through the ozone and so have insane amounts of UV light?

 

I'm guessing gay kids would be reckoned? Because that creepy teacher (and she is fabulously creepy) talking about puzzle pieces reminded me way too much of the anti-gay marriage propaganda that was spread around.

 

Despite all the reveals, this story still doesn't feel centered or well-characterized, but I can't stop watching a show once I start and get hooked, so I guess I"ll just wait until the ride comes to a complete stop before exiting.

 

[jhlipton]

This criticism I disagree with.  I like that they did the reveal, and I'm perfectly open to enjoy storylines in this world even without any mystery or twists at all.  I would like them to be good, internally consistent storylines, but with a few caveats I'm interested in the rebel/bomb plot.

 

The problem is that they have to finish the current mystery/twist before they can move on to other storylines.  If Ethan can't convince the rebels of the truth (of what must be the truth, given the high level of writing we've seen), sooner or later, someone will open the wall, or the rebellion will grow.  As it is, what will he do with the rebels?  He can't just let them go.  If he throws the bunch in prison, what will he tell the townsfolk about them?  It's a mess right now and will be until they dig themselves out from Under  the Dome the story so far.

[Free]

 

Despite all the reveals, this story still doesn't feel centered or well-characterized

 

Agreed, before the twist reveal it could rely on being mysterious and hide behind that, the problems become more apparent without the suspense/build up to the twist.

 

 

It's a mess right now and will be until they dig themselves out from Under  the Dome the story so far.

 

It certainly is, it's a no win situation for all the characters with all this self created drama.

[jhlipton]

Sense8 is onr of the few character-driven shows I've seen.  Early on, we knew who they were, what their hopes and fears were, who or what they loved and why.  I, for one, would follow them anywhere as long as they stay true to themselves.  Even the minor characters a re fleshed out.

 

Here, what drives Kate?  Why did she wait 12 years to rebel?  If it was because of Erhan, it was pretty clear he wanted out too -- why not sound him out, see which way his allegiance lies.  What about her "husband"?  In 12 years, has he ever been tempted?  Do they sleep in separate rooms?  

 

Come to think of it, why on earth would Pitcher freeze a demolitions expert?  That's asking for trouble!

[Milburn Stone]

By the way, why did they freeze a nurse uniform circa 1950 for Pam? Nurses in 2014 wear scrubs or nice pants/shirt. I would run screaming if I saw white stockings and the Florence Nightengale cap.

 

Kinky!

[legaleagle53]

By the way, why did they freeze a nurse uniform circa 1950 for Pam? Nurses in 2014 wear scrubs or nice pants/shirt. I would run screaming if I saw white stockings and the Florence Nightingale cap.

 

All the better for her to pull off her Nurse Ratchet act, my dear.  Pilcher obviously saw One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest one too many times.

[Free]

 

Come to think of it, why on earth would Pitcher freeze a demolitions expert?  That's asking for trouble!

 

A rebellion should've been no surprise considering how things were turning out.  Talk about self created problems.

 

 

Here, what drives Kate?  Why did she wait 12 years to rebel?  If it was because of Erhan, it was pretty clear he wanted out too -- why not sound him out, see which way his allegiance lies.  What about her "husband"?  In 12 years, has he ever been tempted?  Do they sleep in separate rooms?

 

I've always wondered why it took them that long to rebel.

[lucindabelle]

Yes this. Create a totalitarian society where people can't even reflect on their lives and you're just creating rebellion and the feeling of being in prison. Gaslight them with fake lines to the outside and they'll think there's an outside out there! Unbearably stupid.

[Clanstarling]

Also, Amy, chick, I know the engine makes noise and stuff but when you've snuck in somewhere and someone who would catch you is not so far away, normally you don't want to do anything that's guaranteed to make noise? This covers both music boxes and sex. She's such a creepy pod person. Drank the kool-aid and is somehow stealthy-but-not-stealthy.

Not to mention - opening the rolling door of a truck on a quiet street, those suckers make noise.

 

Since Agent Hassler mentioned that there might be another agent coming and to be wary ... he is obviously in on things. If this really is 4028, then I bet that he was frozen too and in the bunker. That would also address his being able to answer the phone.

He was certainly on things in the sense that he's would have been convinced there was an experiment his people selected for - but it could be that he did not know the full extent of the "experiment." As we can see, Pilcher is passionate about keeping people in the dark.

 

Also, the fertility checkup: "We have a married couple, young, fertile, in their prime"...huh?  How young was Kate 12 years ago?

 

"How did the rebels know that Ethan would take that side street ?"

IIRC, in the pilot Kate was described as being something like 27 years old. Which would make her roughly 39, or in her early 40's. Certainly not in her prime fertility wise - but also very capable of having children (though the risks get higher).

 

If this were an action movie - Ethan would have swerved enough to drive up on the sidewalk and back onto the street. There was enough room. But plot required him to run after the truck.

 

In my opinion, there is far less crap on TV than there used to be - but I enjoy popcorn shows too. I'm still intrigued by Wayward Pines' premise - but a show with this type of a scifi'y mystery needs to at least be consistent with its own internal logic. Which, as many have pointed out, it is not. Still, I feel there is more to be revealed that might make the inconsistencies make sense. I hope so, anyway.

[lucindabelle]

Also isn't pan too old to have kids? I guess she's an exception cuz brother.

Another Thiught. Why IDAHO? Why not somewhere warmer where things grow more easily? Is it because they thought no floods? No government bothering them? I mean Idaho is hardly the garden of America.

[grandemocha]

 

Also isn't pan too old to have kids? I guess she's an exception cuz brother.

No one in the episode talked about Pam having children. At all. She is there because she is Pilcher's sister, was a part of the plan since its inception, is the main nurse in town, and knows the truth.

 

Besides, if we are basing Pam's age on the actress who plays her (54 years old), she is most likely too old to conceive a healthy child and was still too old even before they were put into hibernation/stasis, and that's even before we take into consideration her history as a drug addict.

 

 

Another Thiught. Why IDAHO? Why not somewhere warmer where things grow more easily? Is it because they thought no floods? No government bothering them? I mean Idaho is hardly the garden of America.

The reason(s) Idaho was chosen has already been explained in the show and the companion web series (Gone) several times.

Edited July 5, 2015 by grandemocha

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I like the majority of the adult characters in WP, but the kids like Ben and Amy bore me. 

 

I agree, but I can't decide if the characters aren't fleshed out enough, or if it's an inexperienced actor thing. 

[Free]

Yes this. Create a totalitarian society where people can't even reflect on their lives and you're just creating rebellion and the feeling of being in prison. Gaslight them with fake lines to the outside and they'll think there's an outside out there! Unbearably stupid.

 

They were basically asking for it when they kidnapped and put them in this position.

[grandemocha]

 

I agree, but I can't decide if the characters aren't fleshed out enough, or if it's an inexperienced actor thing.

Honestly for me it's that I hate the "petulant teen" stereotype. I know that yeah, it's mostly true to real life that sometimes teens can be disrespectful, haughty, sullen, and rude, but I just can't stand to watch it on shows. I almost wish they had made Ben a little kid like he should have been just so I could have been spared the irritation of watching Ben pout and talk back to his parents. In all honesty, hah, I should probably cut Ben some slack seeing as how his dad had an affair with another woman and is kind of shady in general, but on this show I just want Ben to be stuck in a coma so that he's off my screen.

[Clanstarling]

My problem with Ben is that he seems like he's in a coma when he's walking and talking. The character shows very little interest in anything - even the girl trying to get in his pants. To me he seems not so much sullen as checked out.

Edited July 5, 2015 by clanstarling