Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[Donny Ketchum]

Jackie also added, "With a game like this, you cannot change your mind every five minutes, or else you will get screwed."

 

Seriously, Vanessa.  WHY DON'T YOU GET THAT?!

Edited July 26, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[Kromm]

Oh man. Jackie is just securing her own backdoor with the way she's throwing subtle threats at Vanessa.

Vanessa now digging. Trying to get Jackie to shoot herself in the foot. Abort Jackie!

She's been unintentionally digging her own grave for a week. Every time she's speculated about alliances, etc. She's shown she has the brains to speculate intelligently on occasion, but not that she has the SENSE to pull back and disengage when she should be sensing a weird vibe from someone.

[yankee1151]

Vanessa actually told him that he was Jackie's 2nd target this week and that "the other side" (Becky/Jason/James/Meg) was all onboard for that.

Huh.  Interesting.  I guess Steve wants to keep Austin for "the numbers" too... which makes sense, but he doesn't realize he's expendable (or worse) to EVERYONE but Vanessa.  Not just "the other side."

 

Oh man. Jackie is just securing her own backdoor with the way she's throwing subtle threats at Vanessa.

I don't know, I think she's actually scaring Vanessa a little bit.  I hope so.  Also, Vanessa just said "what's up with Shelli and Clay? Why are they talking to them?" I don't know who "them" is or if she is referring to right now, but currently Shelli and Clay are in the backyard with Jason and Meg.  You know, their supposed new alliance.  Why would she act like that bothers her in front of Jackie?  Am I missing something?  I must be, because BBAD.  They never show a full conversation!

[Kromm]

Also, Vanessa just said "what's up with Shelli and Clay? Why are they talking to them?" I don't know who "them" is or if she is referring to right now, but currently Shelli and Clay are in the backyard with Jason and Meg. You know, their supposed new alliance. Why would she act like that bothers her in front of Jackie? Am I missing something? I must be, because BBAD. They never show a full conversation!

Smoke and mirrors maybe? Rather than expressing a REAL concern in front of Jackie, perhaps it is simply a FICTIONAL concern to make Jackie think she (Vanessa, I mean) is more on the outs with those people than she really is. Edited July 26, 2015 by Kromm

[yankee1151]

Smoke and mirrors maybe? Rather than expressing a REAL concern in front of Jackie, perhaps it is simply a FICTIONAL concern to make Jackie think she (Vanessa, I mean) is on the outs with those people.

It's possible, but Vanessa is so stream of consciousness that it's hard to believe she's even thinking when she talks like this.  Also, the alliance that she AND Jackie  just made was supposed to include all of these people, so why would Vanessa pretend to find it strange or concerning that Shelli and Clay are out there with "them?"  

 

But again, she could have been talking about something else entirely... it just came out of the blue while she was staring at the spy monitor.  Maybe I'm looking for reasons to hope that Vanessa is catching onto the fact that doing Shelli's bidding would NOT be a good idea.

 

ETA - haha, this is so awkward.  the conversation between Vanessa and Jackie is clearly over (because Vanessa is no longer talking) but Jackie refuses to leave.  She's just wandering around eating Cheez-its and making Vanessa uncomfortable.  

Edited July 26, 2015 by yankee1151

[kellog010]

All this craziness started simply because people didn't do back-flips or have a marching band on hand when Clay won POV. It was entertaining to me to see Shelli fall down the rabbit hole earlier. I honestly have no clue what Vanessa is going to do.

[pennben]

 

Vanessa literally just said to Steve: "They know that you know that we know they know."

 

Hee!

 

Vanessa has been checkmated without seeing it unless she flips her play here.  She's got to go back to taking out Austin and pulling in the others saying Shelli talked her out of voting for Austin.  Otherwise, Shelli has talked to everyone, including Austin/Liz, and has been more effective than Vanessa, who is only talking to her alliances.

Edited July 26, 2015 by pennben

[Artsda]

She should take out Shelli. 

[ByaNose]

Wait! So, Vanessaa knows that Steve knows that Vannessa knows that they know?

[pennben]

 

She should take out Shelli.

 

Precisely.

[Cutty]

Shelli pushing so hard for Becky to go because she knows Vanessa will get all the blowback. It's a brilliant move for her. If Van goes along with this they might as well hand Shelli the check now.

[ByaNose]

I still like Becky. She's boring tv but she is so likable. Whereas Shelli is more conniving & sort of likable. I just want Austin out. For the love of god just vote him out......please!!!!!!

[pennben]

 

. If Van goes along with this they might as well hand Shelli the check now.

 

I'm not sure it absolutely means that Shelli wins, but it most definitely means that Vanessa is drawing dead.  I really don't see a way out for Vanessa unless she goes all in right now.   For the record, I have no more poker analogies to draw on, so this was my stand.:)

Edited July 26, 2015 by pennben

[BK1978]

It does appear that most don't want to be In Jury with Steve. I guess they've had their trial run with him and are over it. LOL!!! I will be interesting if they are that serious about it and vote him out just before. That's pretty desperate. It reminds me about a lady on Survivor named Lil. She was on the outcast season. Apparently, she was voted back in to the game not but because she was liked or smart but rather they didn't want to be with her on the pre jury vacation. In the end, Lil made the Final 2 and the others didn't. Be careful what you wish for. LOL!!!

 

Is that true about Lil?  If that is the case that is funny.  I always wondered why they voted her of all people back into the game.

 

 

This has absolutely been my impression.  Yes, he's  a little socially awkward, but I think that's pretty understandable when a group bashes you all the time and there's no escape.  I haven't seen him be anywhere near as bad or off-putting as they like to claim.  It's the mean kids clique from middle school, and I find that more off-putting than Steve.  He's usually fine one on one, and he's obviously a decent and thoughtful guy as evidenced by his goodbye to Audrey.

 

I guess I kinda root for him because he is the real underdog of this house.  I just hope he makes to jury because it will make most of them so angry.

 

And I agree about Jason.  He's the worst.  I still think he's jealous of Steve for some reason.

 

Steve's not that old.  Surely he meant The Gulf War in Iraq?

 

Well my father joined the army one year after the Korean War ended and I was born in 1978 so maybe Steve's father was just older when Steve was born.

[vb68]

 

She should take out Shelli.

 

 

That would really be the smart play if it would work.  I think  Shelli  is so good that she would probably secure the votes she needs from the block to stay anyway.

 

Jason was again being such an ass tonight about Steve by  campaigning  for him to be out before jury so Jason doesn't have to live with him.  I don't care that he doesn't like Steve but he's OTT malicious with it.  I feel like he starts it and then others join in.

 

 

Well my father joined the army one year after the Korean War ended and I was born in 1978 so maybe Steve's father was just older when Steve was born.

 

Good point.   For some reason I had it in my mind the story took place around when Steve was born.

Edited July 26, 2015 by vb68

[bobthefrog]

Vanessa just told Austin that right now she doesn't feel comfortable not putting him up.

[pennben]

I honestly have no idea what Vanessa is doing right now.  She seems to be making Austin her enemy even though she knows others are wary of Austin but want to keep him for now.  I truly don't understand her play here.

Edited July 26, 2015 by pennben

[Donny Ketchum]

Well, Liz just give Vanessa the okay to put Austin up.  Wonder if she'll do it now?  After being in the Diary Room for a while, she seemed to come out ready to go ahead and do that, anyway.

 

ETA: And now Vanessa's pretty much Jackie, Jason, and Liz that she's got no choice but to put him up.

 

Hoping Shelli and Clay don't make her back down again, but anything can happen.  Still a long way till Monday.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[Zahdii]

Steve's not that old.  Surely he meant The Gulf War in Iraq?

 

 

Well my father joined the army one year after the Korean War ended and I was born in 1978 so maybe Steve's father was just older when Steve was born.

 

I went back and checked.  Here are Steve's words as transcribed on Jokers:  "This reminds me of a story my dad told me. My dad was drafted into Vietnam right out of college. So right around the time he was my age he was serving in Vietnamn... "

 

There is a chance the person doing the updates got which war it was wrong, or as pointed out earlier, Steve's father may have fathered Steve late in life.  I've got a cousin that's 28, and her father was in Vietnam for two tours.

 

Anyway, here's a link:

http://forums.jokersupdates.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=bbusaupdates&Number=23999985&page=15&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&rc=&fpart=1

 

If Steve makes it to jury, I hope Jason doesn't.  With no cameras around I worry about how much worse Jason will be to Steve in a boring jury house with nothing to do but pick at each other.

[Nashville]

Playing catch-up here:

 

I keep hearing complaints (on Jokers) about Steve being a creeper and an eavesdropper.  Is he really that bad, or have some of the hamsters merely designated him the guy to crap on?  Does he stand a few feet away and stare, or hide behind furniture or in the next room and obviously listen?  Sometimes it seems like he's just passing through a room and someone makes a snide comment about him sneaking around again, often when he can hear them.  Is it possible that he stands on the edges of conversations hoping to be invited to contribute?

 

If you believe Steve's backyard monologues, he's not intending to eavesdrop; he gets uncertain when approaching two individuals talking (as opposed to groups of three or more), not certain whether or not he's butting in on a private conversation, and other people think - or have chosen to think - his indecision is the uneasiness of being caught doing something he shouldn't like eavesdropping.  I particularly include Jason and Meg in the "chosen to think" category, because my impression of them is they are both theodious sort which appear so much more frequently of late who can't just disagree with someone, or not care for them very much, and leave it at that - they have to demonize the other person to validate their dislike.  And IMHO for them to do that to a relatively naive 22yo college kid - the youngest person in the House, and therefore the most sensitive to peer perception - is just mean.

 

Vanessa is bathing in blood, y'all, despite the fact that the entire house wants Austin out. 

 

Elizabeth Bathory did the same - but IIRC it didn't work out too well for her either.

 

Steve's not that old.  Surely he meant The Gulf War in Iraq?

 

Not necessarily.  Steve is about 3-4 years younger than my oldest, and I missed the lottery for the Asian Vacation by about five years.  If Steve's father was in his mid-30s or older when Steve was born, then Dad could definitely have found himself pushing through rice paddies.

 

Austin is the worst, but Shelli will make sure that Becky goes. She is really playing this game well.

 

My personal opinion is that between Shelli and Vanessa, V is the stronger player by far.  Shelli's not pushing Vanessa anywhere Vanessa does not wish to be pushed.

 

Shelli thinks everyone should play for her and that she can do whatever she wants but if someone else does it they're awful. She's truly Derrick.

 

In all fairness, Derrick didn't fault anybody for gameplay which contradicted his own - he simply refused to let it continue.

Maybe it's Amanda "It doesn't make any sense" Zuckerman you're thinking of...?     ;)

[Zahdii]

Via Jokers:

 

07/26/15 01:46 AM
HGs in backyard just got the hula hoop from the live feeders :) NT

 

What's this?  Live feeders can send gifts to the hamsters?  Is there some kind of secret vote?  Can you do other things, like decide to make all of them wear Groucho Marx moustaches all day?

Edited July 26, 2015 by Zahdii

[Brian Cronin]

Shelli wanting Becky out makes sense to me. Even if she isn't part of some secret alliance, she clearly is not a fan of Shelli's and thus, eliminating her helps Shelli. If Becky goes, it will largely her own fault for overreacting to stuff like Vanessa choosing her to play veto or Clay winning Veto. She has been told that the plan is to backdoor Austin, so Clay winning Veto is totally in keeping with that plan, so when she gets really upset when he wins Veto, it looks hinky.

[pennben]

Welp, Vanessa, thanks for playing.  Although I'm not sure who the ultimate target is (when I shut down the feeds, it was Jackie), I do know that this will not work out for Vanessa.

[kathybgd]

Geez! Vanessa with her "2 and 3 headed monster". anolazies (excuse my bad spelling). but BOY! she is driving me nuts! Also "at the end of the day"

[Petunia13]

I went back and checked. Here are Steve's words as transcribed on Jokers: "This reminds me of a story my dad told me. My dad was drafted into Vietnam right out of college. So right around the time he was my age he was serving in Vietnamn... "

There is a chance the person doing the updates got which war it was wrong, or as pointed out earlier, Steve's father may have fathered Steve late in life. I've got a cousin that's 28, and her father was in Vietnam for two tours.

Anyway, here's a link:

http://forums.jokersupdates.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=bbusaupdates&Number=23999985&page=15&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&rc=&fpart=1

If Steve makes it to jury, I hope Jason doesn't. With no cameras around I worry about how much worse Jason will be to Steve in a boring jury house with nothing to do but pick at each other.

The Vietnam War was the last drafting of fighting men.

That and the fact he mentioned Vietnam twice (could understand if its misheard or misunderstood once maybe) makes it likely Steve has an older father who was in Vietnam. Maybe they'll show his family again or something and well have more info.

[Ceeg]

I think if Vanessa puts up Jackie against Becky, she'll still have a bit of a target shield next week. I still think the twins + Austin will be bigger targets than Vanessa, especially if Austin goes through with his promise to volunteer himself or cause drama. And then there's Steve, who for whatever reason, is the new Audrey for some people in the house. I wouldn't say that Vanessa is in as good of a position as Shelli and Clay, but I'm not sure she'll be worse off by getting out Becky/Jackie over Austin. If Vanessa hadn't won HOH this week, Jackie was likely gunning for her or Liz to go anyway, so she was already a target in Jackie's mind before this week anyway.

 

Her choices are basically: piss off 2 remaining houseguests (Becky/Jackie/John, whichever 2 stay) or evict someone who probably genuinely has her back. It's getting to the time in the house where you can't help but piss someone off, so I don't know if it's really such a terrible move for her to keep Austin.

[Eolivet]

Shelli thinks everyone should play for her and that she can do whatever she wants but if someone else does it they're awful. She's truly Derrick.

She's Derrick if she wins. From these descriptions, I see her slightly differently: scheming, potentially deal-breaking, cultivating social relationships who will be hurt when she makes game moves and then when she tries to apologize at the end, nobody will believe her. And...conveniently, here's her nice, well-liked alliance partner who's just as involved, but has a quieter role behind the scenes.

 

She's Boston Rob and Clay will Amber his way into the money, if she takes him. Also because of the rule of Big Brother (at least as long as I've been watching): Thou shalt never vote for a chick when there's a dude there.

 

(Actually, if she's seen as Boston Rob, she'll be fortunate. There's always a possibility she could be seen as Dawn from Survivor: forging personal relationships to make game moves. And because she's a woman, she'll catch hell for it -- unlike Derrick).

[kathybgd]

As I sit here this Sun. a.m. watching my recorded BBAD , I am baffled by the sheer ignorance of our young people! Besides the damn "like" word used every other word to complete a sentence (I'm looking at Meg on that one mainly) , but Vannessa's on the bed up in the HOH room with Jackie. Vannessa's body language is SCREAMING for Jackie to get the hell out, the meeting is OVAH! Dumb ass Jackie just awkwardly stands there, eating, staring at nothing' just being an idiot. Also, if Jason, Meg, James, or Becky get picked off, it's their own damn faults! They are not even playing the game! DAMN! Shelli has it EASY!

[kellog010]

Keeping Austin is actually not a bad move for Vanessa. The motivations for his bonehead moves was his obsession with Liz and not screwing over his alliance. Jackie is actually Vanessa's biggest threat right now. She is after Vanessa and her twins. Jackie has the capability to win comps more than Jason/Meg/James/John or Becky.

 

I think if Vanessa could survive past the double elimination with Steve intact then her odds for winning are very high. Shelli and Clay will need to wake up and realize their biggest threat is Vanessa.

[WiCkedWitCh]

Side note--watching feeds from last night and Steve, Becky, and Jason are talking. Steve doesn't know who Bb Saget is! and he has only "heard of" Full House. Oy 

 

Also, they are talking about being bullied and how Steve is getting bullied by Austin (I think)? And Jason is sitting there being all nice and saying how bad it is that Steve is getting treated badly. 

 

ETA: Becky was saying, if there was  Derrick in this game, they wouldn't last because we are all looking out for it. 

Edited July 26, 2015 by WiCkedWitCh

[ByaNose]

The house really doesn't want Steve in jury. I wouldn't be surprised if they follow though and vote him out just right before jury starts. I did agree with Shelli assessment that Steve probably would be different in jury with the "creep" factor. Steve is such a BB fan that he put his Andy role in overdrive and drove everyone crazy. If he was out of the house and away from the cameras he would be a lot better.

[Ceeg]

I watched the entire Vanessa and Steve conversation last night as it was happening, and I can see why they all want Steve out. He's just so, so difficult to talk to. Vanessa is smart to keep him in her back pocket because he has no one, but she also seems to have an endless amount of patience with his weird quirks and lack of conversational skills. 

[ByaNose]

So, Austin is off & Becky is in? Tell me it isn't true. I so wanted Austin out. He's so gross.

[peachmangosteen]

haha, this is so awkward.  the conversation between Vanessa and Jackie is clearly over (because Vanessa is no longer talking) but Jackie refuses to leave.  She's just wandering around eating Cheez-its and making Vanessa uncomfortable.  

 

Jackie always does this. It's hilarious. She reminds me of Elissa actually.

 

In all fairness, Derrick didn't fault anybody for gameplay which contradicted his own

 

Oh he most definitely did imo.

 

If Becky goes, it will largely her own fault for overreacting to stuff like Vanessa choosing her to play veto or Clay winning Veto.

 

That wasn't overreacting at all. But the problem is Shelli knows it wasn't an overreaction and so now she knows that Becky isn't quite as dumb/gullible as she thought, so she has to go.

 

If these people still don't wise up to Shelli/Clay's game after this week then I truly give up hope. They will skate to F2.

Edited July 26, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Cutty]

So, Austin is off & Becky is in? Tell me it isn't true. I so wanted Austin out. He's so gross.

Sounds like Jackie was the target when everyone went to bed.

Don't worry, though. Vanessa will change her mind roughly 3,000 times again today.

[peachmangosteen]

On the bright side, if Jackie gets booted maybe they will end BOB! 

 

Why do I continue to even hope for things?

[AndreaK1041]

It seems like if Vanessa talks to Clay/Shelly the target is someone else and if Vanessa talks to anyone else the target is Austin.

Luckily for Austin, Shelly is more persuasive than the rest of the house combined.

[vb68]

 

Vanessa is smart to keep him in her back pocket because he has no one, but she also seems to have an endless amount of patience with his weird quirks and lack of conversational skills.

 

 

I started laughing when she was trying to include him in her decision making about getting rid of Austin or Becky, and he blurted out, "Do you remember when Zack was on the block with Jocasta?"   And you kinda saw Vanessa silently go WTF.    She was  pretty patient, but she was on the same track as me that all that crap runs together after a year.   To his credit, he was making a decent strategic point about keeping Austin.     He just took the long road instead of the detour in getting there.

 

 

The house really doesn't want Steve in jury.

 

That's why I want him to make it.  Let him crash the mean kids' little pool party.  Anything that causes Jason discomfort is good for me.

Edited July 26, 2015 by vb68

[Artsda]

Did sound like it was Jackie before Vanessa went to sleep.

[Vicky]

In any event, this week does not end on a positive note for Vanessa - she loses either way in my opinion.

[vb68]

 

On the bright side, if Jackie gets booted maybe they will end BOB!

 

 

Why would it end if she left?   I don't follow.

[kellog010]

Shelli and Clay are going to work to flip the votes and convince people that Austin has to stay. Vanessa is forcing them to get bloody in this. She is bluffing that she is going to put up Austin unless they put in the work. I believe Jackie is Vanessa's ultimate target. Vanessa didn't even want to be HOH but then Jackie won so Vanessa was forced to win. She used that to convince Jackie not to back door her and even created an alliance with the people who were most gunning for her. She had bought herself a few weeks of safety with this.

 

I think after Jackie put up Austin, Vanessa's strategy was going to be plant seeds to flip the votes to keep Austin with her 6S alliance. That way everyone was equally to blame for the flip and she wasn't target #1. Austin despite his dumb moves is still loyal to them. When Clay and Becky lost BOB forcing Vanessa to remain HOH, she had to change up her strategy. She knows she needs Austin's number. Her biggest threat is Jackie now but she can't just say that and put her up. She has to get the "house" on board so all the blame doesn't fall 100% on her.

 

Vanessa is building an army with loyal allies in, Liz, Julia, Steve and Austin. That's just my reasoning. I could be totally off-base.

[peachmangosteen]

Why would it end if she left?   I don't follow.

 

Because then the HOH from the beginning of the week will have been nominated and evicted by the end of the week, which is obviously one of the biggest reasons why they did BOB in the first place.

[Cutty]

I actually think Vanessa wanted to backdoor Jackie all along. All this Austin stuff was misdirection.

 

I think the best person to get out for Vanessa if she's saving Austin would be Jason. He doesn't have a clue what's going on but socially he is the glue that holds the other side together (Meg, Becky, Jackie, James). And it will weaken Shelli/Clay because they obviously want to keep him around. 

Edited July 26, 2015 by Cutty

[peachmangosteen]

John to Becky: My double eviction move if I get it is James and Meg. Straight up just put them up.

 

WHAT. THE. FUCK? I'm glad to have empirical evidence of how dumb John is.

Edited July 26, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Artsda]

That's the stupidest move I ever heard. 

[MrsMommy]

I don't want jackie to go, I actually really like her and steve. This show is pissing me off!

[PinkSprinkles]

John to Becky: My double eviction move if I get it is James and Meg. Straight up just put them up.

 

WHAT. THE. FUCK? I'm glad to have empirical evidence of how dumb John is.

 

Actually, it's a smart move. It's very, very rare in a Big Brother season to have the four or five major players make it to the end. You usually have the two (at most) clear threats and then a bunch of goats. James and Meg will be carried along as final two pawns and only cast off if the wrong person wins HoH at the end. It's in John's best interest to eliminate Meg and James because I can guarantee that Clay/Shelli/Vanessa/Austin would pick them over him to take to the finals. 

 

The HGs don't see what we see. We know that if Johnny Mac makes it to the end he will win or, at the very least, has a strong fighting chance. They don't see that right now. If he eliminates the other options then his chances of being taken to the finals increase exponentially because the power players will all try to get rid of each other and leave him for "later". 

[peachmangosteen]

I'm sorry but I can't agree. That is a "I wanna be Slay's F3 patsy and no one will get in the way of it!" move. It's embarrassing. I can't wait to see how John responds to the new plan. I mean I'm sure he'll just be fine and dandy with it because his strategy is to be Slay's bitch.

[LoveLeigh]

I am confused. I thought the other HOH could not be nominated, nor could the two who were nominated and won BOB. How can Jackie even be put up as a replacement for Clay?