Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[Ceeg]

But women never have these conversations with each other because the show puts something in the water that makes women never want to work together. I mean, why work together when it's so much easier just to lose to a man?

It's not that simple though, because Austin and Liz are ~in love. It's completely unreasonable for Vanessa to try to flip Liz to turn on Austin.  It's just never going to happen, no matter what Vanessa does or doesn't say. Because if Austin wins, Liz wins. And also, Vanessa (IMO) really truly likes Austin and Liz as people, and she's never going to throw him under the bus to Liz. Or vice versa. 

[MKL122788]

Blue is not Steve. How could it be?

 

Look at that top bracket. Vanessa has if John wins HoH, she stays regardless. If Orange and Brown/Purple were Austin/Liz, no way she believes that Liz and Austin winning veto means they get rid of the other.

 

Therefore, blue is definitely one of Austin and Liz.

 

In the second bracket, we see the 4 m&m's...I believe she ran out of yellow and she used the remaining two colors to represent herself. Notice she still has herself staying, which leads me to believing that orange is Steve. His bracket is the one not filled out yet. This makes perfect sense from the second bracket where if One of Liztin wins HoH and Steve wins veto, she goes home in that scenario up against John.(blue from right, orange from top.)

 

Further evidence that Steve is blue is the fact that when she wins veto in final 4, look who she takes if John in HoH. When Orange is available, orange goes home there. This implies that she won't let any pair get to final 3 if she has her way. Looking at those, I am leaning towards brown being Liz.

 

For sure, Vanessa is yellow, John is green, and Steve is orange. Liz and Austin are brown/blue and I believe when given the choice, Vanessa will take Liz over Austin to final 3, resulting in a brown Liz.

[ennui]

Why would Liz want Austin to win if she doesn't? She's going to keep the charade going in hopes he gives her a cut.

IMO that's why she's allowed him to finger her all season. She's expecting a payback at some point.

Some call that prostitution.

[pennben]

 Because if Austin wins, Liz wins.

 

 

 

I'm not sure that you've got that right.

Some call that prostitution.

 

Some would be really stupid.

Edited September 13, 2015 by pennben

[AndreaK1041]

For sure, Vanessa is yellow, John is green, and Steve is orange. Liz and Austin are brown/blue and I believe when given the choice, Vanessa will take Liz over Austin to final 3, resulting in a brown Liz.

Ah, you got to the level my brain was looping on, which is the Liz and Austin cannot be Red and Orange (together, whoever is either red or orange).  In the grid to Vanessa's left (the top in the photo) I could not figure out why she was thinking that Liz/Austin would not take each other if they won veto and then was confused by her arrogance there.  Now let me look again, because I'm getting there, but I'm not there yet.

[Ceeg]

 

7:21 PM Johnny Mac tells Austin he's voting with them this week.

I hope to god he's bullshitting.

[pennben]

Okay, help me, let's take this column by column one at a time, far right colum is Austin/Liz/Steve, correct?  Because John won veto. Can someone explain the next line to someone who doesn't speak skittles.

[MKL122788]

Ok, the right hand side is potential final four HoH winners. Because Green is in every one, we know this is John. Because yellow is in none, we know this is Vanessa.

 

The top hand side is the veto winner. Yellow still being there for veto regardless of who goes home confirms this is Vanessa.

 

The central grid is the 3 people who advance to final 3, according to Vanessa, with the given HoH and veto winners.

 

The three separate 3 by 4 brackets are different depending on who goes home fifth.

 

EDIT: My speculation is that Vanessa will not let any pair get to final 3 if she can avoid it. Using this, we can see that the charts where John wins HoH and Vanessa wins PoV as the most revealing. Orange is eliminated in any scenario where he is still around there, which implies to me that she will not let Orange and Green get to final 3 together if she has the power. Since green is John, this implies orange is Steve.

Edited September 13, 2015 by MKL122788

[Ceeg]

Vanessa just told Steve he's not going home this week. John better not fuck this up and vote Steve out. PLEASE GOD EVICT LIZTIN PLEEEASE

[ByaNose]

Unfortunately, I only speak m&m. I think I'm too dumb for skittles. I also hope John doesn't what the others want. If not, he's officially soooooooo dumb. Can I still want him to Fan Favorite though?

[Artsda]

Yay John won POV!

[Brian Cronin]

Saving the Austwins this week could theoretically help him if Austin or Liz win POV next week. Both of them would prefer to evict Vanessa than John, right? That'd give him a 1/3 chance of winning HOH and a 3/4 chance of the POV going his way.

 

John would then need to win the F3 HoH to make F2, but I presume he's thinking he has to do that regardless. 

Edited September 13, 2015 by Brian Cronin

[Ceeg]

 

8:03 PM Johnny Mac tells Austin he's voting against Steve. He'd never thought he'd do it, but he will.

I hate everything.

[Brian Cronin]

But it's true, right? Austin/Liz would vote out Vanessa over John but Steve might not (he might, but he might not). Voting out Steve oddly enough does give him a great shot at making F3. And he knows Steve's not a bitter juror. It's crazy...it doesn't SOUND right, but i think it is actually his best bet. I mean, he'll lose in the F2, but he'll lose in the F2 against most anyone (and the one person who he might still beat is Liz) This way he gets a good chance at having a 1/3 shot at $50,000. 

Edited September 13, 2015 by Brian Cronin

[blixie]

See this is why I can't like John, he won Veto and good for him, but CHRIST why will no one vote out Liztin, every one is just dying to finish third to these two ASSHOLES.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

See this is why I can't like John, he won Veto and good for him, but CHRIST why will no one vote out Liztin, every one is just dying to finish third to these two ASSHOLES.

Vanessa kept them safe but you like her okay.

Anyway, he's also told Steve he has his vote.

He's done the opposite of what he's told them he'd do for weeks now but he's still bashed when he says what people don't want to hear. The irony is that he's accused of not playing the game in the next sentence. Or playing and awful game. There was a lot of that last night when he said he'd throw the veto. He won it and .... crickets.

Vanessa can speak from both sides of her mouth but "Oh look, strategy!"

Edited September 13, 2015 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Vicky]

Another interesting Vanessa and John conversation.

John said he doesn't understand his own strategy.  He looks surprised and a little pleased with himself when Vanessa tells him he's a good strategist.

He's going by the seat of his pants, he said.  

 

She's trying to steer him toward voting out Austin...or, voting to keep Steve so she can break the tie and vote to evict Austin.

And, you know, Johnny Mac...he's on board.

 

I hope this is real...I don't want to watch the show on Tuesday and see anyone other than Austin talking to Julie Chen.  

[MrHufflepuff]

 

 

This seems like a really complicated way to divide up the Halloween candy.

[Silo]

Vanessa is leaning towards nomming Austin but evicting Steve.

[Vicky]

Oh Man - Vanessa and Steve have been talking for a while now.  Vanessa has told him they have a 92% chance of getting to final three if they evict Austin.  John agreed.  He nodded.  He said "Yeah".  Right when it's about to break up, Vanessa says - which way are you leaning?  He says to "evict Steve".

Huh?

Does he think that's what she wants to hear?

Or is there a good reason for him to want Steve evicted?

 

ETA:  My take on the conversation is that she wants to evict Austin.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Vicky

[kellog010]

Finally Vanessa makes sense in rationalizing that Austin is better to get out this week but the decision rests on John. I have no idea what he is going to do.

[Silo]

Oh Man - Vanessa and Steve have been talking for a while now.  Vanessa has told him they have a 92% chance of getting to final three if they evict Austin.  John agreed.  He nodded.  He said "Yeah".  Right when it's about to break up, Vanessa says - which way are you leaning?  He says to "evict Steve".

Huh?

Does he think that's what she wants to hear?

Or is there a good reason for him to want Steve evicted?

 

ETA:  My take on the conversation is that she wants to evict Austin.

I don't know who she wants to evict internally, but as she was leaving the HOH bedroom she told JMac that she was leaning toward Steve but "let's not tell him right yet". She also said she wasn't super firm in that so maybe she's leaving it open to change her mind.

[Cutty]

John is a bigger idiot than I thought if he really wants to evict Steve over Austin.

[Vicky]

Austin shovels food into his mouth so fast he has to chew like a bunny rabbit so his mouth is ready for the next bite of food.

He doesn't even lift his head up.  

 

If you went to a restaurant with Austin, you might as well leave the car running.  Or, you could just shove him out at the stop light nearest the restaurant and he'll be back before the light turns green.

I don't know who she wants to evict internally, but as she was leaving the HOH bedroom she told JMac that she was leaning toward Steve but "let's not tell him right yet". She also said she wasn't super firm in that so maybe she's leaving it open to change her mind.

Ahhh...I thought she realized it would take more than one conversation for John to understand that it's Austin they should evict, so she said we'll talk more later.

What I wonder is if John really thinks he should evict Steve, or if he's telling Vanessa what he thinks she wants to hear.    

[kellog010]

I think perhaps John is not going all in on saying he'd save Steve so he doesn't spook Vanessa. She's already nervous that they have a F2 so he can't seem so eager. At least that's what I hope because I would love an Austin blindside eviction.

[Silo]

Austin shovels food into his mouth so fast he has to chew like a bunny rabbit so his mouth is ready for the next bite of food.

He doesn't even lift his head up.

If you went to a restaurant with Austin, you might as well leave the car running. Or, you could just shove him out at the stop light nearest the restaurant and he'll be back before the light turns green.

Ahhh...I thought she realized it would take more than one conversation for John to understand that it's Austin they should evict, so she said we'll talk more later.

What I wonder is if John really thinks he should evict Steve, or if he's telling Vanessa what he thinks she wants to hear.

Maybe she's just telling him what she thinks he wants to hear while she bides her time to push him towards Austin, and that's why she left it open.

Personally, I think JMac knows she won't vote out Austin and he's playing it safe by not giving her any ammo to take back to Liztin. I think despite all this handwringing and aligning of the Skittle Playbook, she already has her mind made up to go to F3 with Liztin. They have a solid relationship w Van and she doesn't trust Steve or JMac nearly as much.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Silo

[RedheadZombie]

Why is it assumed that Liz would take Austin over Vanessa to final two? Liz told Vaness today that if she went final two with a guy, the guy would automatically win. She also said that she now knows that Austin has his own back, not hers, and she's playing for herself and Julia.

[Brian Cronin]

Why is it assumed that Liz would take Austin over Vanessa to final two? Liz told Vaness today that if she went final two with a guy, the guy would automatically win. She also said that she now knows that Austin has his own back, not hers, and she's playing for herself and Julia.

 

Even if she wouldn't, you certainly can't plan any strategy based on anything BUT the assumption that she is going to take him to F2. 

[Ceeg]

I think perhaps John is not going all in on saying he'd save Steve so he doesn't spook Vanessa. She's already nervous that they have a F2 so he can't seem so eager. At least that's what I hope because I would love an Austin blindside eviction.

He went back and told Austin everything he and Vanessa discussed. John sucks so hard. He's choosing a F3 where he is in a must-win situation over a F3 where one would most likely take him to F2 (Steve would absolutely take John over Vanessa, despite what Steve tells her).

[PaperTree]

Cool.  Quite a lot of dancing around like musical chairs. As long as JMac votes opposite Liz/Austin, Vanessa is forced to get the dreaded BOHH, heh heh.  The nitty is getting gritty.

 

As we stumble to the finale, I want to thank all of the feed-watchers here for keeping the rest of us in the know.  I don't have anywhere near the patience required to do that and really appreciate it as well as this website for making it possible.

 

I think Vanessa has played the best (but exhausting) game, but Jmac is my fave.  One of my goofball college roommates went on to Dental School so I have a teensy personal "reason" rooting for him.  As long as Austin doesn't win though, it's all good.

[brdwygurl]

If I gave up my shot at HOH and took a luxury hoping for money or a trip to Europe and was told it was a trip with Frankie, I would be so pissed.

Honestly it should be a caution to future in contestants, your definition of luxury and BBs definition of luxury may not be the same thing.

Can you imagine if the luxury Becky won was time with Frankie. I wasn't a huge Becky fan, but I would've so enjoyed watching her shut him down

[Eolivet]

Then I guess now it depends on how Vanessa wants to leave the house, if she doesn't win veto. If she boots Liz, she gives Austin an excuse (as if he needed one) to boot her, since she made the first move against them. If she boots Steve, then she just looks pathetic when Austin or Liz boot her in final 4.

 

The question is how much she trusts either John (clearly not much) or Steve to boot Austin or Liz over her in final 4. Does Austin think he can beat anyone, including Steve? If so, she's pretty screwed, and then I'd just go all in, boot Liz and say "Come at me." Better to be seen as the aggressor than give Austin a reason to look like a hero to the jury, and Vanessa to look foolish for trusting him.

 

ETA: But if she's willing to put up Austin, even better. I just don't want her to look like a fool, because I can see Austin's gloating DRs now. If you've gotta go out, go out in a hail of bullets, Vanessa. Much better than getting shot in the back.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Eolivet

[peachmangosteen]

She and Liz need to really talk about this (no woman has ever beat a man in finals) to convince Liz that neither has a good shot against a man. I assume Vanessa knows this fact (maybe I'm wrong) and can convince Liz that her best shot to win is against Vanessa, I actually think that is true (even though I don't think she has a great shot in any scenario).

 

They both know they have a much better chance of beating another woman than a man. They've already discussed it. And Liz has said many times that she'd rather see a woman win anyway. I honestly think Liz is more likely to go against Austin than Vanessa is. Austin has a very strange hold on Vanessa. He plays her very well, but there's gotta be more to it because Vanessa's biggest mistakes in the game always involve her saving Austin when she shouldn't and she seems smarter than that.

 

I know it's John and most times his brain doesn't make any sort of actual sense. But if Steve leaves this week, I don't understand why John would evict Vanessa over the showmance. His options would be going to F3 with a showmance who will always pick each other, or going into F3 with 2 singles. 

 

I think John, like Steve, is working under the (true) assumption that Vanessa looks like the best player, the big mastermind, and that she will win 100%, so if you take her out you will probably win the jury's votes by getting out the biggest threat. John might also believe he has a better shot in the remaining comps against Liz/Austin than against Vanessa/Steve, which I can understand why he would think that.

 

And has anyone heard why Liz chose to take Vanessa and not Austin?

 

It makes so much more sense strategically for Liz to take Vanessa so I just assume that was the reason.

[Eolivet]

Just realized that Vanessa will have no choice in the matter if John votes with the remaining Austin/Liz, so she really is well and truly screwed. And of course, they make a deal with John, not Vanessa, because 1) Vanessa has no power next week (save potential veto), and 2) John is the goat everyone wants to take to the end. I wonder if this plan will involve throwing veto to John, so they can claim they never directly betrayed Vanessa and keep her jury vote.

 

peach, you were right -- he is the Victoria of this season. I'll never doubt you again.

[peachmangosteen]

I wonder if this plan will involve throwing veto to John, so they can claim they never directly betrayed Vanessa and keep her jury vote.

Hmmmm, I could easily see Austin going for this. But then again I think Austin probably believes he can beat Vanessa anyway (which he might be right about), so I don't know if he's that worried about being at the end with her. Austin, I'm sure, believes he can beat anyone, so in trying to figure out what his real end goal is we have to decide what he thinks will be the best tv. And I'm not really sure what that is. But it could be Judas evicting Vanessa.

 

peach, you were right -- he is the Victoria of this season. I'll never doubt you again.

 

I have to say, I don't see this right now. Sure, John's making some weird ass moves currently, but he's doing something. Victoria just let Derrick take her as far as he could. Which, in her defense, was the best thing for her to do and her only real choice, but still. It's kind of a catch 22 sometimes. For some players it just makes sense to not do much, lay low, not make big moves. It's boring and frustrating for viewers, but it's often the best play. I'm not sure whether it would be better or worse for John if he'd just done nothing after veto, i.e. his usual approach to the game. He seems to have decided to change up his strategy in the final stretch from lay as low as possible and do nothing to make a bunch of random moves and play terribly. It's really quite fascinating.

 

Although I can actually see some legit reasons for why John's doing this. I wish he would let us in on what he's really thinking. I wish Vanessa would, too. Why, oh why, are the DRs such bullshit now? Let us hear why these people are doing what they're doing, dammit!

Edited September 13, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[peachmangosteen]

I'm catching up on stuff from last night and there was a lot of talk about the comp being rigged/cheating. Liz/Austin/Vanessa talked about Liz being 'cheated' out of the win, something about Production screwing Liz over, some talk of John copying off Liz's puzzle, Steve/John said that they were given a second chance at it while no one else was, etc.

[blixie]

 

Vanessa kept them safe but you like her okay.

 

Oooh burn.

 

Except not, because I'm including Vanessa in that, when she had the choice to keep Julia over Liztin, I didn't like it and I don't like that she's siding with them now. But yeah I still like her, because I'm mostly arguing this from a what I want to see viewer not because I see this as some huge strategic blunder by Vanessa in particular for her game, she's been their biggest ally and betraying them or conversely staying loyal to them means different things to her game than it does to fucking John and Steve.

 

Bottom line I get that everyone has their reasons for keeping them, and I think ALL their reasons are frustrating, because I don't want Austin to win and I think he will beat everyone left.

Edited September 13, 2015 by blixie

[peachmangosteen]

I'm fine with either Austin or Steve going, but I really hope it's Austin. It just opens the endgame up so much if he goes. He will most likely beat everyone but Vanessa, so him going makes the winner more unpredictable. Plus, it makes the F2 more unpredictable because there's no true allegiances between John/Steve/Liz/Vanessa so it's hard to predict who any of them would take. Although I kinda suspect they'd all take Liz, which works for me since she's my fave of those left.

 

This season is SO good. We deserve it after last season.

But honestly there's still a part of me that fears Vanessa will put Liz up and then she'll be voted out just because nothing I want ever happens on this show lol.

[mooses]

I'm catching up on stuff from last night and there was a lot of talk about the comp being rigged/cheating. Liz/Austin/Vanessa talked about Liz being 'cheated' out of the win, something about Production screwing Liz over, some talk of John copying off Liz's puzzle, Steve/John said that they were given a second chance at it while no one else was, etc.

Huh. The fact that the HGs are talking about it - and we're allowed to hear - is weird. I'm sure nothing will come of it though.

Of course John wins when I talk about how much I dislike him! But if Austin goes, all is forgiven. Although it sounds like John is in cahoots with him, so that doesn't fare well for me. John really doesn't change his mind too often.

I promise to never trash talk John again if he makes Austin feel safe just to blindside him. Do you hear that BB God's?!

Edited September 13, 2015 by mooses

[peachmangosteen]

Huh. The fact that the HGs are talking about it - and we're allowed to hear - is weird. I'm sure nothing will come of it though.

 

Yea, them never once going to fish during all that talk was really weird. I'd say we'll have to wait to see the comp, but they'll edit anything fishy out anyway.

 

But speaking of this, can I just say another great thing about this season has been the apparent lack of rigging. Normally every week there's talk of DR influencing votes and this season I only remember that like once. And there was no Pandora's Box or resets. They even got rid of the two overt sources they had for rigging by eliminating BOB/Takeover early. Good job, Production! See how good the show can be when they don't try to fuck with it.

Although it sounds like John is in cahoots with him, so that doesn't fare well for me. John really doesn't change his mind too often.

 

John told Vanessa he'll vote how she wants, told Steve he was safe/had his vote, and told Liz/Austin he would vote with them, so who the fuck knows what this flop will do!

[blixie]

I just keep thinking of all that work Vanessa did with her Skittles math to craft a good argument to John about keeping Steve/voting out Austin (aka we have a 92% chance of making it to final 3 if we keep him) and John being great! I'm voting out Steve! CURSE YOU SKITTLES.

[Vicky]

I just keep thinking of all that work Vanessa did with her Skittles math to craft a good argument to John about keeping Steve/voting out Austin (aka we have a 92% chance of making it to final 3 if we keep him) and John being great! I'm voting out Steve! CURSE YOU SKITTLES.

Exactly...:)

 

I'm currently working on the theory that John is really playing the Chaos/Anarchy strategy, which says that if someone tells you a plan they have - do the exact opposite.  That's why he gravitates toward people like Clay and Austin - neither of them come up with plans.  Austin's strategy is to agree with everything anyone says and stick to them like glue (especially if the person is Liz)

I promise to never trash talk John again if he makes Austin feel safe just to blindside him. Do you hear that BB God's?!

This is my hope.  Wouldn't it be fun? :)

Edited September 13, 2015 by Vicky

[Lady Calypso]

I think, ultimately if John knows that Vanessa is willing to vote out Austin over Steve, then he'll vote out Austin. I think he should do it anyway just to mess with Vanessa, but I do think it's a smart move to not anger her. She may not have HOH power next week, but she's been able to convince anyone of anything. But all he really has to pitch is that Austin/Liz are a pair and they'll always choose themselves over John/Vanessa/Steve. Whereas John/Steve are not as loyal to one another and they'd actually turn on each other to go with Vanessa. It may not be entirely true, but it is true that they're not as loyal as Austin/Liz. And if John brings up the fact that Austin and Liz have both sold out Vanessa several times (I actually do believe they've done this, lies to other people or not), then Vanessa might actually consider switching.

 

I think Vanessa is trying to secure jury votes, but she can't exactly do that if she's voted out next week due to John winning HOH, putting up Austin/Liz and having one of them win veto. It's too risky to play safe at this point. Now is the only time to really do something risky, and if she takes one of Austin/Liz to F2, she loses two votes automatically. So, at this point, Vanessa better realize that she has to say 'carpe diem' and put up Austin, then tell John that she has his back if he votes out Austin. He has the best chances, besides Vanessa, to win and I think John would even lose against Austin.

[Vicky]

Hmmmm, I could easily see Austin going for this. But then again I think Austin probably believes he can beat Vanessa anyway (which he might be right about), so I don't know if he's that worried about being at the end with her. Austin, I'm sure, believes he can beat anyone, so in trying to figure out what his real end goal is we have to decide what he thinks will be the best tv. And I'm not really sure what that is. But it could be Judas evicting Vanessa.

 

Agree...which, since I don't like Austin really drives me batty because it's not about the game, it's about his future career after Big Brother.

If I liked Austin though - I'd probably think that's as good as John blindsiding Austin

[Former Nun]

it's about his future career after Big Brother.

 

 

Hahahahahahahahahaha...good one!   He'd better use his degree and get a job teaching impressionable young woman at a junior college.

[Ceeg]

I honestly think if they don't vote out Austin this week, he's a lock to win. I can't envision any situation where he's not in F3 and then F2. And he will beat everyone handily, except Vanessa, which will be close.

[Wings]

I watched BBAD last night.  Vanessa can talk for chapters saying the same thing over and over and over.  Thank you live feed watchers/posters.  I am at your feet in gratitude.  

 

So do we really, teally think Austin will be the boot?  We know he will go up, he is resigned to that and feeling confident he is safe.  Will we really get a good blindside?  Someone please say this is true.  Vanessa will break the tie and drip with blood, right?  

Edited September 13, 2015 by wings707

[Eolivet]

If John does indeed vote with Austin/Liz, then he's the ultimate floater who just became the ultimate patsy. Steve kept him safe in a week when he could've stuck with the Scamper Squad, and the reward for his loyalty might be "I don't even care enough about you to give you a fighting chance?" Show Steve some respect at least, and if Vanessa votes him out, then at least you tried. Plus, Austin or Liz will very possibly still keep you over Vanessa in a final 4 veto situation, given your goat status. But it seems like Steve was willing to be ride or die with you, and if he walks out the door based on your vote? Screw that (and I don't even like Steve).

 

If John does vote out Steve, then I agree he's no Victoria. Then he's Andy Herren and his scumbag game, except there's no Gina Marie waiting there at the end to make him look better.

 

(So don't do that, John. Please.)

[mooses]

So do we really, teally think Austin will be the boot? We know he will go up, he is resigned to that and feeling confident he is safe. Will we really get a good blindside? Someone please say this is true. Vanessa will break the tie and drip with blood, right?

Just from reading a quick recap, I think John really will vote out Steve so Austin and Liz will take him to Final 3. It really fits what he's done so far in the game, and it's a good move if he just wants to win his way to F2.

On the other hand, if he votes out Austin, he's probably in trouble if Liz has to choose between him and Vanessa on the block. Or if Vanessa has to choose between him and Liz. So his worst chance of staying next week is if Steve wins HOH.

Vanessa is probably like, geez, what do I have to do to get these guys to want Austin out?!

Edited September 13, 2015 by mooses

[Wings]

Aww, shit, mooses.  That is not what I wanted to hear.  Makes sense though.