The NBA

[topanga]

21 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

It was about 15% below market value vs what the bulls offered, which is not outrageous. 

Wade's best chance to get more money from the Heat was right after Lebron left.  he was younger, they still needed him desperately and yes they needed to resign Bosh, but the whole team was going to basically be retooled at the time, I think they could have found a way at the time to pay him and Bosh. And they weren't going to be in the title hunt anymore, so he wasn't making sacrifices at the time to continue to win rings.  It was just to keep the team competitive.  Yes they have been good even without Lebron and without Bosh, but even with a healthy Bosh, they weren't winning titles. He just has less leverage now that he is older. 

I understand why he did it.  I just think he will regret it after he retires.  If it was all about being paid like Whiteside, even with the Bulls he is not making that much.  Still comes up short. 

I think Wade wasn't just seeking money. He wants to be part of a team that values who he is as a player and a teammate. Yes, his best years are behind him, but as other players pointed out, he took less money for years when he was younger and healthier. 

He said in a press conference that he still loves and respects Pat Riley but that this was a business decision. On both sides. The Heat told him point blank that they're not going to continue paying him what he's "worth." --  I put "worth" in quotes because professional athletes' salaries are ridiculously high, in my opinion. 

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

I think Wade wasn't just seeking money. He wants to be part of a team that values who he is as a player and a teammate. Yes, his best years are behind him, but as other players pointed out, he took less money for years when he was younger and healthier. 

He said in a press conference that he still loves and respects Pat Riley but that this was a business decision. On both sides. The Heat told him point blank that they're not going to continue paying him what he's "worth." --  I put "worth" in quotes because professional athletes' salaries are ridiculously high, in my opinion. 

Those two paragraphs seem to contradict each other. 

The first paragraph indicates it wasn't about money, it was about being valued for his services.

But then in the second paragraph, its just a business decision on Wade's part. 

I guess thats where I am confused and what doesn't make since.  In my view he didn't really get enough extra money to justify it much as a business decision or as a personal decision about being paid his value as a player.  And its not really clear which it was and why I think looking back he may regret it.

[topanga]

20 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Those two paragraphs seem to contradict each other. 

The first paragraph indicates it wasn't about money, it was about being valued for his services.

But then in the second paragraph, its just a business decision on Wade's part. 

I guess thats where I am confused and what doesn't make since.  In my view he didn't really get enough extra money to justify it much as a business decision or as a personal decision about being paid his value as a player.  And its not really clear which it was and why I think looking back he may regret it.

I guess I wasn't clear. Yes, basketball teams show how much they value a player by the salary they offer. In addition, if you have played with a team for 13 years, and that team doesn't pay you the salary that's commiserate with your experience, it's an even stronger declaration that you aren't valuable to that team. The Heat basically told Dwyane Wade that they don't value him enough as a member of the team to keep him from going to another team. 

It's not as if an equal offer was made, and Wade simply chose to go to another team anyway. 

[Jx223]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Those two paragraphs seem to contradict each other. 

The first paragraph indicates it wasn't about money, it was about being valued for his services.

But then in the second paragraph, its just a business decision on Wade's part. 

I guess thats where I am confused and what doesn't make since.  In my view he didn't really get enough extra money to justify it much as a business decision or as a personal decision about being paid his value as a player.  And its not really clear which it was and why I think looking back he may regret it.

I think he will end up being okay with his decision. Neither the Bulls or the Heat are probably going to the finals anytime soon, so it’s not like this decision cost him a strong shot at going back to the finals. He really didn’t anything to lose by making the switch. He has three rings already and he’s on the back end of his career.  I think he may not have felt that appreciated by the Heat, this last time around and that factored into his decision.  I had heard that Pat didn’t even contact him when he was trying to decide whether to leave or stay in Miami. Plus, I think he is happy to be getting an increase in money, no matter how much it is.

[twoods]

It was clear that the Heat's top priority in the offseason was to sign Whiteside, then try for Durant, THEN resign Wade. It's their franchise player for goodness sake, and he was never their top priority. With the Lakers, Kobe was never as good as he used to be. However, their first priority was always Kobe and everything else second. With the Heat, I never sensed that and it must have sucked for Wade to realize it when he saw how other organizations treated their franchise players. I hope he does well in Chicago because he has always been a classy guy- even after all this he didn't throw the team under the bus like others would have.

Edited July 11, 2016 by twoods

[mojoween]

I've been a San Antonio appreciater for awhile, not really a fan, and I'm certainly not a Wake Forest fan, but I'm still sad that Duncan is hanging them up.

I don't care if the Spurs are boring.  I like watching good teams play good, efficient basketball.  

Duncan has been called the best post-Jordan player this morning and I buy that, even if no one realized it until after the fact.

I was really hoping he would get another ring before retiring.

[xaxat]

I'm going to miss The Big Fundamental. I've been wrong about a lot (most?) of guys coming out of college, but watching him at Wake I had a feeling he was going to be great.

Personally, I think there was only one hole in his game, his incessant whining! But even that became kind of endearing over time.

4 hours ago, mojoween said:

I was really hoping he would get another ring before retiring.

While it doesn't reach the height of soon to be HOFers playing QB for the Broncos, Tim's last title was a great story. I don't think many people gave the Spurs a chance to win another O'Brien trophy after that heartbreaking loss to the Heat the season prior. But, contrary to conventional wisdom, the Spurs didn't fall apart and just kept on with their no drama approach to another ring.

[ganesh]

I read that Duncan is the only player to win 1000 games with the same team. It's going to be a long time before that one comes around again.

[AimingforYoko]

12 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I read that Duncan is the only player to win 1000 games with the same team. It's going to be a long time before that one comes around again.

You have to have a player both as good as Duncan and as undiva-like as Duncan. Not a common pairing there.

I was annoyed with the way the Spurs got Duncan, but when they got him they sure didn't waste him. So kudos for that.

[mojoween]

I heard this morning that he has 157 playoff victories, which is more than 24 franchises.

[topanga]

36 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Personally, I think there was only one hole in his game, his incessant whining! But even that became kind of endearing over time.

While it doesn't reach the height of soon to be HOFers playing QB for the Broncos, Tim's last title was a great story. I don't think many people gave the Spurs a chance to win another O'Brien trophy after that heartbreaking loss to the Heat the season prior. But, contrary to conventional wisdom, the Spurs didn't fall apart and just kept on with their no drama approach to another ring.

I love that Tim Duncan honestly believes he's never committed a foul. Every official who blows a whistle against him gets that bug-eyed, "What did I do?" look. As you said, it's become endearing. 

I liked the team's fortitude in coming back the year after a finals loss to win the Championship. However, and this goes back to the aforementioned LeBron hate, when the Spurs lost, no one said that the Spurs sucked. Parker had a few bad games, maybe Duncan wasn't as dominant as usual, etc. But the next year, when the Spurs beat the Heat, all I heard was, "The Heat sucks! LeBron sucks! No one can play team ball like the Spurs."

[FuriousStyles]

I think the Heat did Wade dirty.  How has that man never been the highest paid player on the team? I think Wade felt disrespected and for an organization who preaches "family" and how well they take care of their players they sure treated their franchise guy like shit. I actually hope there is a dominoe effect and no star wants to go there (I know, its South Beach, no income tax but whatever) just so all this maneuvering but Pat to avoid paying Wade will backfire.

Thank God Tim Duncan finally retired. And I say that affectionately as a life long Spurs hater.  I've loathed the Spurs and Tim Duncan for about 16 of his 19 years in the league, but it was mostly out of jealousy.  The way that organization from top to bottom ran like a well oiled machine which resulted in them being legit championship contenders practically every single year. As a Knicks fan, it just made me sooo freaking jealous.  Anyway, congrats to Timmy on a Hall of Fame career.

[ganesh]

I think his win % was 71 too. And I heard he alphabetizes his bookcase.

[AimingforYoko]

40 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I think his win % was 71 too. And I heard he alphabetizes his bookcase.

Is that weird? I alphabetize by author.

[Crs97]

I am surprised no one has yet mentioned this kerfuffle:

http://www.businessinsider.com/stephen-curry-responds-to-basketball-camp-criticism-2016-7?yptr=yahoo?r=UK&IR=T

[ganesh]

I was contrasting his stellar career with his low key personality off the court. 

He's won a championship in 3 different decades. And I heard he always washes whites separately.

[topanga]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I am surprised no one has yet mentioned this kerfuffle:

http://www.businessinsider.com/stephen-curry-responds-to-basketball-camp-criticism-2016-7?yptr=yahoo?r=UK&IR=T

Over $2000 for a five day camp in Hawaii? This camp is clearly designed for children of the rich. But Even if I were super-rich, I don't know if I'd send my kids there. Sure, Steph can charge whatever he wants for a camp that bears his name, but I agree with Michael Bennett 100%: Steph doesn't need the money, So why so expensive? 

[twoods]

I can't go on ESPN because I try to read an article about Tim Duncan and start to cry. He was my favorite player outside of the Lakers- loved him at Wake Forest and rooted for him when he wasn't playing against my team. Classy guy and as unselfish of a teammate as they come. I can't recall an opposing player saying anything negative about him. He will be missed.

On to other news, seems like Green got arrested for a fight at a restaurant. Him and his temper. Hope he stays out of jail.

Steph comparing his camp to his brother's is laughable- the free camp is for a day vs 5. I'm sure other players charge for camp, but make it affordable for others. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by twoods

[DrSpaceman73]

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 11:41 PM, Jx223 said:

I think he will end up being okay with his decision. Neither the Bulls or the Heat are probably going to the finals anytime soon, so it’s not like this decision cost him a strong shot at going back to the finals. He really didn’t anything to lose by making the switch. He has three rings already and he’s on the back end of his career.  I think he may not have felt that appreciated by the Heat, this last time around and that factored into his decision.  I had heard that Pat didn’t even contact him when he was trying to decide whether to leave or stay in Miami. Plus, I think he is happy to be getting an increase in money, no matter how much it is.

 What he is missing by going to the Bulls is a chance at retiring as a lifetime member of the Heat, which I do think makes a difference in terms of a person's legacy with a team.  Its rare to see a player stay with one team an entire career and they are viewed differently in a city where that happens. 

To be clear though, I don't blame him for the decision to go to another team and take more money.  I just think he did it at the wrong time.  I think he should have done it after Lebron left two years ago.  I think its too close to the end of his career to be doing it now.  Two years ago he was still a key to the future of the team's success.  Now he is a part of the Heat's future, but a much smaller part and Whiteside is much more important.

[Crs97]

Quote

Steph comparing his camp to his brother's is laughable- the free camp is for a day vs 5. I'm sure other players charge for camp, but make it affordable for others. 

Nope, his brother charged for his camp, too - I think @$250.

[FuriousStyles]

Ok i agree $2000 to do anything for week that doesnt involve getting your passport stamped in a foreign country is too much, but does Steph set the price? Ive never been to a basketball camp and have no idea what goes into it, but arent there other people at the camp who work (and presumably need to get paid)? Then there's all the equipment and gear and then possibly paying to rent out a gym or something. I dont know, these are just some things Im throwing out to justify the price.  

What I find kind of interesting is that I read one of the reasons Steph ended up with UA, is because Nike didnt want to sponsor a basketball camp for him. And now he's got one, and he holds it in Hawaii for $2000.   Smh.

[topanga]

13 hours ago, FuriousStyles said:

Ok i agree $2000 to do anything for week that doesnt involve getting your passport stamped in a foreign country is too much, but does Steph set the price? Ive never been to a basketball camp and have no idea what goes into it, but arent there other people at the camp who work (and presumably need to get paid)? Then there's all the equipment and gear and then possibly paying to rent out a gym or something. I dont know, these are just some things Im throwing out to justify the price.  

What I find kind of interesting is that I read one of the reasons Steph ended up with UA, is because Nike didnt want to sponsor a basketball camp for him. And now he's got one, and he holds it in Hawaii for $2000.   Smh.

There's no way that the overhead costs for a camp require over $2000 for each kid. Does the fee include air fare, transportation, room and board also? Still expensive, but slightly more justifiable. 

What do you mean that Nike didn't want to sponsor a basketball camp for him? Steph wanted to hold a basketball camp for kids and wanted Nike to sponsor it? Meaning it would be free? Or low cost? Or he wanted a camp for himself?

[xaxat]

On a per day basis, two thousand dollars for a week of instruction might be on the high side, but it isn't that much out of line with the many sports camps (boys and girls, all sports) that players, coaches Nike etc. run during the summer. 

For example, Bennet's team mate Russel Wilson is charging $225 . . . for four hours. 

[doodlebug]

30 minutes ago, xaxat said:

On a per day basis, two thousand dollars for a week of instruction might be on the high side, but it isn't that much out of line with the many sports camps (boys and girls, all sports) that players, coaches Nike etc. run during the summer. 

For example, Bennet's team mate Russel Wilson is charging $225 . . . for four hours. 

It's not comparable, though, unless kids attending Steph's camp are able to sign up for a half day or a day or some fraction of the 2 grand so that kids whose parents aren't wealthy can afford some part of the experience.  If not, then the fact that it lasts 5 days and costs that much is most likely part of the profit planning for the thing.  And, no matter who set up or runs the camp, Steph's name is on it, he is undoubtedly providing some of the instruction and will be getting a hefty cut of the proceeds.

Russell Wilson's camp is also taking place in the city where he plays, making it far more accessible to kids.  The fact that many, if not most, kids attending Steph's camp will have a 5 hour flight from the city where he plays makes it prohibitively expensive for most folks.  I presume the idea is to allow Steph, his family and the other coaches and their families to have an all expense paid vacation at a luxury resort in Hawaii as part of the deal, another reason why the camp is so ridiculously expensive.  It's also why it needs to be a 5 day event; no point in hauling all those folks all the way to Hawaii for any less time.

It's a money grab, pure and simple, and it reflects poorly on a guy who is already a multimillionaire that he endorses it.

Edited July 14, 2016 by doodlebug

[FuriousStyles]

19 hours ago, topanga said:

There's no way that the overhead costs for a camp require over $2000 for each kid. Does the fee include air fare, transportation, room and board also? Still expensive, but slightly more justifiable. 

What do you mean that Nike didn't want to sponsor a basketball camp for him? Steph wanted to hold a basketball camp for kids and wanted Nike to sponsor it? Meaning it would be free? Or low cost? Or he wanted a camp for himself?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15047018/how-nike-lost-stephen-curry-armour

When Curry was still with Nike, they werent interested him having him be the "face/name" of a basketball camp which according to this espn article I linked above was a big deal to Curry and supposedly is big deal to players in general. I dont know what the specifics are in terms of whether Curry wanted Nike to foot the bill or what.  This article: http://theundefeated.com/allday/stephen-currys-basketball-camps/?ex_cid=tutwitter  notes that the $2000 camp in question is the Warriors "featuring" Steph Curry...so perhaps its the Warriors who set the price?  I dont know.

[Rick Kitchen]

Nate Thurmond has died.  He was always my favorite player, growing up as a Warriors fan.

[Ohwell]

I just heard about Nate.  May he rest in peace.

[roamyn]

It's official.

The NBA is moving the 2017 All Star game from Charlotte over HB2.

[Kip Hackman]

It's ironic that the city of Charlotte is getting punished, when they were the ones who created a city ordinance allowing transgender individuals the right to choose which bathroom they want to use. The state govt responds with HB2, and Charlotte loses the All Star Game. Even though the city govt is basically on the same side as the NBA.

[DrSpaceman73]

HB2 was an overreaction to the local Charlotte bill and went far beyond just the bathroom issue, that was big part of the problem. 

But Charlotte politicians were warned if they passed this bill the state would react like this. 

But it is true Charlotte is being punished for the state bill.  Many in Charlotte resent the state government anyway, feeling like Raleigh where the capitol/state government is located gets much more favorable treatment than Charlotte at the state level, especially with funding.  On top of the fact Charlotte is highly liberal/democratic run and the state is more traditionally Republican.  This won't help the state/city relations any, that is for sure. 

But then the current governor, Pat Mccory, used to be the mayor of Charlotte for 14 years up until 2009, as well, so go figure.  And then the mayor that succeed him went took a job in Washington with Obama (I think sec. of transportation) and the mayor after him was indicted for taking bribes and lost the job, is now in jail. 

[Kip Hackman]

8 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

HB2 was an overreaction to the local Charlotte bill and went far beyond just the bathroom issue, that was big part of the problem. 

But Charlotte politicians were warned if they passed this bill the state would react like this. 

But it is true Charlotte is being punished for the state bill.  Many in Charlotte resent the state government anyway, feeling like Raleigh where the capitol/state government is located gets much more favorable treatment than Charlotte at the state level, especially with funding.  On top of the fact Charlotte is highly liberal/democratic run and the state is more traditionally Republican.  This won't help the state/city relations any, that is for sure. 

But then the current governor, Pat Mccory, used to be the mayor of Charlotte for 14 years up until 2009, as well, so go figure.  And then the mayor that succeed him went took a job in Washington with Obama (I think sec. of transportation) and the mayor after him was indicted for taking bribes and lost the job, is now in jail. 

Yeah, Charlotte could've passed the bill without including the bathroom provision, and nobody would've batted an eye. They wanted to make a statement. Mission accomplished, I guess.

The Charlotte vs Raleigh thing is very real, and has been going on as long as I can remember. I guarantee that nobody in the capitol is losing any sleep over Charlotte losing the All Star Game.

[roamyn]

6 hours ago, Kip Hackman said:

Yeah, Charlotte could've passed the bill without including the bathroom provision, and nobody would've batted an eye. They wanted to make a statement. Mission accomplished, I guess.

By the same token, the State could've passed a Unisex bathroom provision and not hidden all the anti-anti discrimination behind the sow's ears, and companies & events would not have blinked both eyes.

Interesting that McCrory used to be the mayor of Charlotte.  I didn't know that.  Guess he won't be retiring there in the fall.  I flip off his huge honking mansion that takes up an entire city block, each time I pass it, just because in the year I've lived here, he's not made a good impression AT ALL.

[mojoween]

I hope McCrory went into a big snit about Adam Silver like he did about my governor preventing the Great Danes from traveling to Duke.

[Kip Hackman]

41 minutes ago, roamyn said:

By the same token, the State could've passed a Unisex bathroom provision and not hidden all the anti-anti discrimination behind the sow's ears, and companies & events would not have blinked both eyes.

Yup.

[Rick Kitchen]

Derrick Rose says that the Knicks are in the same super team class as the Warriors.

[roamyn]

3 hours ago, Rick Kitchen said:

Derrick Rose says that the Knicks are in the same super team class as the Warriors.

<snort>

As someone who's a Cleveland native, and lived in Schaumburg  (Chicagos suburb) until last year, I say Good Luck with those Bulls.  You're gonna need it.

[AimingforYoko]

14 hours ago, Rick Kitchen said:

Derrick Rose says that the Knicks are in the same super team class as the Warriors.

<Pats Rose on the head> That's right, you're all super. Three teams have a shot at the title next season: Warriors, Cavaliers and Spurs.

[xaxat]

Maybe he thinks it's still 2010?

At least we won't see any more of this ad.

I think it's a very good ad, but as it became clear Rose wasn't going to return to his pre-injury play watching it become more and more depressing.

[AimingforYoko]

10 hours ago, xaxat said:

Maybe he thinks it's still 2010?

Bomani Jones had a great line, "Now the Knicks have a team good enough to lose the Eastern Conference finals....in 2011.

[Boris]

MVP are only awarded to the right one who really deserve honor as a VP. Anybody here knows about the legend NBA legend  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the one and only player who owns most MVP award in the history of basketball. His defense and blocks were marvelous, In the 1970s he is the real hero and totally unbeatable. He is the real nightmare to the opponents. He left the play at the age of 42(1989)..!!
I know it sound weird and totally unbelievable.
 Now authorities believe that Lebron James can beat the records of Jabbar if he can maintain the is from in the play.As James is too young and he can beat Kareem's records.Read more about the History of NBA MVP awards .

I also like Stephen Curry and really like the players who are really mad at the BB, may be that is because of my team #Heat

[topanga]

Last night I watched a replay of the USA men/China exhibition game. The game itself was a blowout, but it was nice to see the camaraderie developing among the players. Yes, it was weird to see Kyrie Irving and Draymond Green joking with one another, but there was also a hilarious moment when DeAndre Jordan air-balled a free throw, and the entire USA bench starting laughing and clowning him, as real teammates would do. DeAndre himself even had to turn to the bench and laugh. 

I also saw a great game last night (in person) between the USA women and France. The US women were amazing, but the team feels incomplete without Candace Parker there. I still think not inviting her was a deliberate slap in the face.  

[DrSpaceman73]

I think the unforeseen consequence of opening up the Olympics to the pros is there is less tension between the traditional "enemies" on different teams in the league.  If only for a short term they all get to know each other personally and work together.  That never happened back in the 1980s or before.  Yes as college players they could do it but never as pros.  In the book about Bird and Magic that came out sometime in the last decade, there was a chapter on how they didn't really know each other well, personally, until they did a shoe commercial together in the mid 80s and met out at Bird's house in Indiana.  When they met and had time alone, they formed a different relationship and a closer bond beyond just the Bird-Magic rivalry that was present before. 

I think the Olympic and international competitions give the players that opportunity now, along with coming up in AAU leagues that are year around and so prevelant.  Its not the only reason, but I think one of the reasons you see a closer bond between the NBA players on different teams, which has helped create a stronger union and more oppurtunities to join rival teams in free agency.  I think the players as a whole are just closer in general now than they were a generation ago.  There is also the fact that there are far fewer players in the NBA than NFL and MLB and less turnover in the NBA than the NFL, makes a big difference in how the leagues function as a whole

[AimingforYoko]

Somebody made a LinkedIn profile for Tim Duncan and it's too good.

[xaxat]

Forget the actual questions, after seeing the photo of him at Old Navy, the concept of a retired Tim Duncan joining LinkedIn rings so true.

[topanga]

It was only a matter of time. Draymond Green posts dick pic on Snapchat

[Fukui San]

Did he then kick it?

[MVFrostsMyPie]

No, because it wasn't all up in his face and stepping over him.

Edited August 1, 2016 by MattDuffysCat

[Crs97]

Or, you know, attached to someone who was guarding him.

[Magog]

The 2016-2017 NBA Schedule will be out in a week & ESPN is telling us that the Cavaliers & Warriors will meet again on Christmas Day. Also that Kevin Durant & those Warriors will return to OKC on February 11th and that Dwayne Wade & the Bulls will be in Miami on November 10th.

[Boris]

Yes...  just waiting to rock and smash...  :)