Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Miss Dee]

I know you watch Legends of Tomorrow, @jhlipton - didn't you learn last Tuesday that puns were the lowest form of humor? :)

[Oracle42]

Not gonna lie, I haz schadenfreude over the crappy reviews for Iron Fist

Edited March 20, 2017 by Oracle42

[jhlipton]

On 3/19/2017 at 1:03 PM, Miss Dee said:

I know you watch Legends of Tomorrow, @jhlipton - didn't you learn last Tuesday that puns were the lowest form of humor? :)

Someone in the Legends of Tomorrow forum said that Mick should have made a fart joke... And I know an hour-long "shaggy dog" joke.  Good puns take mental flexibility and knowledge of language.  Whoever said they were the lowest form of humor probably couldn't make them!

ETA:
On Into the Badlands, we have a young white boy training in martial arts under a female Asian teacher.    I'm sure that at some point, he's going to beat he, because, yes, please, another white man who out-Asians the Asian -- can't get enough of that!  It makes NO sense that a kid with virtually no training would be able to beat someone who has trained for so long, unless his white boy genes overpower her pathetic Asian ones.  At best, he should show that he progressed enough -- if he beats the "Master", I'm done. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by jhlipton

[DearEvette]

10 hours ago, jhlipton said:

On Into the Badlands, we have a young white boy training in martial arts under a female Asian teacher.    I'm sure that at some point, he's going to beat he, because, yes, please, another white man who out-Asians the Asian -- can't get enough of that!  It makes NO sense that a kid with virtually no training would be able to beat someone who has trained for so long, unless his white boy genes overpower her pathetic Asian ones.  At best, he should show that he progressed enough -- if he beats the "Master", I'm done. 

Oh, it's not just me then?  I really, really want to like this show because it has that rare unicorn, an Asian male is the lead and he has a great character arc.  But somehow even with all the imagery and ideas that invoke non-western cultures it still somehow manages to center whiteness.  It is a fantasy show why does the ruling class have to be white?   But I like Sunny and I am interested in his journey. But I dunno sometimes....

Anyway, I watched Deidra and Laney Rob A Train   on Netflix and it was cute.  It stars Ashleigh Murray (who plays Josie on Riverdale) as Diedra and Rachel Crow who plays her sister Laney who are left a bit destitute when their mother had a mother of all breakdowns and ends in jail.  It is a comedy and it is very cute, I get the impression the creators like the Coen brothers because it has a bit of a whiff of them to it.  

Also started Season 2 of Hap & Leonard.  Season one was great and it looks like Season 2 will play with racial themes a bit more. 

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Anyway, I watched Deidra and Laney Rob A Train   on Netflix and it was cute.

That was fun -- thanks!

[Oracle42]

I swear this is my last Iron Fist post.

But seriously, Marvel auditioned a talented, charismatic, stupid-hot biracial Asian actor with a background in martial arts for the part of Danny Rand. Instead they cast a bland white dude with sloppy form who is wholly unconvincing as a martial arts practicioner, let alone as one of the best martial arts practicioners in the MCU. It's such an obnoxious triumph of white mediocrity that it makes me want to throw things. 

Also?   Mike Colter and Lewis Tan onscreen together would have provided a stunning amount of man pretty. [/shallow]

Edited March 21, 2017 by Oracle42

[Dee]

26 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Also?   Mike Colter and Lewis Tan onscreen together would have provided a stunning amount of man pretty. [/shallow]

Seriously. I'd watch a show where they just stood around doing nothing. Shirtless. Of course.

[xaxat]

On 3/15/2017 at 11:38 PM, xaxat said:

I read a quote from a CBS exec claiming that they want to become more diverse. But he's either terrible at his job in accomplishing his goal or lying.

I think it's the latter.

Based on more information on the upcoming CBS show Mission Control, I now know it's the latter. 

Quote

CBS has cast two white actors — Poppy Montgomery and David Giuntoli — as the leads of its sci-fi pilot “Mission Control” even though both roles were originally written for people of color in Andy Weir’s spec pilot script, TheWrap has learned.

Montgomery (“Without a Trace,” “Unforgettable”) is taking the role of Julie Towne, who is described in an earlier draft of the script obtained by TheWrap as the daughter of a Caucasian father and Latina mother who is fully bilingual in both English and Spanish. The character also spoke frequently in Spanish in the script.

Giuntoli, a veteran of NBC’s supernatural drama “Grimm,” has been cast as Malik Stevenson, a NASA commander who is explicitly described as African American in Weir’s script.

Oh, and then there's this bit of bullshit.

Quote

According to an individual familiar with the project, producers initially did reach out to and offer the roles to non-white actors, but they passed. 

Fuck CBS.

[Oracle42]

Quote

Fuck CBS.

This.  I'm guessing this show won't be behind a paywall?.

But, it actually makes my TV viewing easier. Between all the other prime-time networks, Netflix, Amazon and cable, the options were becoming a little overwhelming. It's nice being able to eliminate an entire network from consideration. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Oracle42

[vibeology]

Quote

According to an individual familiar with the project, producers initially did reach out to and offer the roles to non-white actors, but they passed. 

The way that one part reads it sounds like they had two leads in mind (probably serious A-listers who were used as examples to pitch the show and probably never would have been able to sign on) and as soon as those two turned it down, they moved to cast white actors.

As I have already said, I'll stick with Elementary to support Lucy Liu until it is likely cancelled at the end of the season but otherwise I am done with CBS and I plan to stay that way until I see a major change in their network.

[DearEvette]

5 hours ago, xaxat said:

According to an individual familiar with the project, producers initially did reach out to and offer the roles to non-white actors, but they passed. 

But...but... but... what does this even mean?  It sounds so passive like "we kinda sorta said maybe 'hey do you wanna, like, maybe do this?' to a that one black actor." 

They are so trifling.

[jhlipton]

Quote

According to an individual familiar with the project, producers initially did reach out to and offer the roles to non-white actors, but they passed. 

Seriously?  I can pass on Hawaii 5-0, but if Elementary is renewed, I'm going to watch it, I think.  This piece of s#!t, not a chance!

[JustaPerson]

They couldn't find anyone? I guess casting directors don't exist anymore. But I guess they wanted names or whatever.

[possibilities]

The Daily Show had John Singleton on as their guest interviewee tonight. He's the showrunner for BET's new show "Rebel". He said that, since so many Black people are getting their asses kicked by the police, he wanted to produce something that showed a Black woman kicking ass.

He said it's about a cop who shoots her partner to prevent him from shooting her brother, and that the show explores the conflicting position of a cop of color who finds herself no longer embraced by her community once she becomes police, but at the same time is also alienated from the police even as she is one, because of all the problems there.

This plot summary comes from IMDB's show page:

'Rebel' is an extraordinary take on the seminal police drama that examines the unique and conflicted relationship officers of color have with their jobs - at a time when police forces are rife with brutality and misconduct. Oakland police officer, Rebecca "Rebel" Cole, has always excelled by playing by the rules. She has always known that she must be better and smarter on the job because she is both black and female. After her brother is slain by police, Rebel soon becomes disillusioned with the system and is forced to take matters into her own hands and become a private investigator and a champion for her community. Caught between family loyalty and the fraternity in blue, Rebel's actions set in motion a cause-and-effect crisis that can't be undone.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5651776/

Here's the interview from The Daily Show : Creating the Female Shaft in "Rebel"

[proserpina65]

16 hours ago, DearEvette said:

But...but... but... what does this even mean?  It sounds so passive like "we kinda sorta said maybe 'hey do you wanna, like, maybe do this?' to a that one black actor." 

They are so trifling.

It sounds to me like they offered the lead roles to specific actors and were turned down.  Then, rather than move on to other actors of color, they had the roles rewritten.  Which is pretty shitty.  I mean, I get that maybe they really wanted Idris Elba and Zoe Saldana, for example, but it's not like there aren't dozens of equally good actors with lower profiles who would've jumped at the opportunity.  Seems like they made one half-hearted effort just so they could say "hey, we tried".

[xaxat]

Or. . .  they could be lying to cover their asses.

[DearEvette]

The idea of them swinging for the fences to land Big Name actors of color but then when they don't get them, turning around and giving it to ..... Poppy Montgomery and David Giuntoli?  Makes me giggle-cry.

If that is the case ... not saying it is because who knows.... but really the old adage of "have to be twice as good to get half as much" strikes again.

[jhlipton]

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The idea of them swinging for the fences to land Big Name actors of color but then when they don't get them, turning around and giving it to ..... Poppy Montgomery and David Giuntoli?  Makes me giggle-cry.

If that is the case ... not saying it is because who knows.... but really the old adage of "have to be twice as good to get half as much" strikes again.

REALLY!  These two are about Katia Winter level of acting.  It's not like Shannyn Sossamon is busy right now.
Speaking of Shannyn Sossamon, did anyone notice the colorism in the original casting -- a black man and a light WoC.  How original!!!!

[Silver Raven]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

It's not like Shannyn Sossamon is busy right now.

So I'm not the only one who thinks she's a terrible actress.  Good.

[jhlipton]

I really don't understand what's going on at CBS.  According to the shows Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/mission_contrl), a Nigerian-born British actress named Wunmi Mosaku is also one of the regulars.  So is Ricardo Chavira (Carlos Solis on Desperate Housewives , and a much bigger name than Montgomery or Giuntoli). So the show will have a black regular and a Hispanic regular, just "gender-bent" from the original!

Why didn't they announce this first and show the diversity is real? Montgomery and Giuntoli aren't as news-worthy as CBS putting its money where its mouth is?

[vibeology]

There is a difference between being a series Regular and a Lead. Casting supporting characters with Latinx and Black actors isn't the same thing as casting your Leads that way. Every other network has at several shows clearly lead by a poc. CBS, if I'm not mistaken, only has Elementary and Lucy Liu. (I'd be happy to be corrected on this since I actually have no idea who is still around on shows like NCIS, CSI, Criminal Minds etc )

[jhlipton]

Hawaii 5-0 has Daniel Dae Kim (Chin), Grace Park (Kono) and Chi McBride (Grover) as leads, and Jorge Garcia (Jerry) as a regular.  Until this season, Masi Oka (Max) was a regular.

[vibeology]

37 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Hawaii 5-0 has Daniel Dae Kim (Chin), Grace Park (Kono) and Chi McBride (Grover) as leads, and Jorge Garcia (Jerry) as a regular.  Until this season, Masi Oka (Max) was a regular.

My understanding is the leads of Hawaii Five-0 are Scott Caan and Alex O'Loughlin. They're Steve and Danno, right? Like I said, CBS has poc as regulars on their various shows, though I would still guess not at the level of other networks. The issue comes down to leads. CBS has mostly stayed away from shows led by poc while the other networks are embracing it more and more. There isn't another network like this. CBS will set up diverse ensembles, but the person leading the show and acting as the face of the show is white almost every single time. Who is in the center in the promo shots? Who gets the Entertainment Weekly magazine covers? Who would be nominated for a Lead Emmy? Who gets paid the most? Normally those things will tell you who the lead is. Every other network has multiple shows were you can point to the Lead actor or actress and it's someone Black or Asian or Latinx. And the thing is, those shows are successes. (To various degrees but nothing there is an outright flop) There is no business reason to not copy this because these shows make money and that's what network executives should want to do.

But CBS is content to be the "older" network and gears their programming towards older, more conservative viewers who aren't looking for diversity. That's not to say they'd object to it or boycott a show if it was there, but it's just the type of viewer who doesn't notice that they can go a whole episode of a TV show set in New York and only white people have dialogue. It isn't representative of the world anymore.

[Raja]

6 minutes ago, vibeology said:

My understanding is the leads of Hawaii Five-0 are Scott Caan and Alex O'Loughlin. They're Steve and Danno, right? Like I said, CBS has poc as regulars on their various shows, though I would still guess not at the level of other networks. The issue comes down to leads. CBS has mostly stayed away from shows led by poc while the other networks are embracing it more and more. There isn't another network like this. CBS will set up diverse ensembles, but the person leading the show and acting as the face of the show is white almost every single time. Who is in the center in the promo shots? Who gets the Entertainment Weekly magazine covers? Who would be nominated for a Lead Emmy? Who gets paid the most? Normally those things will tell you who the lead is. Every other network has multiple shows were you can point to the Lead actor or actress and it's someone Black or Asian or Latinx. And the thing is, those shows are successes. (To various degrees but nothing there is an outright flop) There is no business reason to not copy this because these shows make money and that's what network executives should want to do.

But CBS is content to be the "older" network and gears their programming towards older, more conservative viewers who aren't looking for diversity. That's not to say they'd object to it or boycott a show if it was there, but it's just the type of viewer who doesn't notice that they can go a whole episode of a TV show set in New York and only white people have dialogue. It isn't representative of the world anymore.

Any 5-0 watcher can testify that while Danno carries the legacy name the show is McGarret and how the rest of the leads mix and match. It seems as if Scott Caan either skips or is in some unrelated B plot in half of the episodes 

[callie lee 29]

For Criminal Minds the poc are Adam Rodriguez, Damon Gupton (both new this season), and Aisha Tyler (New last season). All are regulars but not really leads, though that might be due to their newness, Tyler seems to be a not every episode regular. Shemar Moore left last season. He was definitely a lead.I haven't watched CM Beyond Birders that much, but I know there is at least one poc, but at least for now that is Gary Sinise's show.

NCIS LA has LL Cool J. Only person of color as a regular, but certainly a lead along with fellow original cast member Chris O"Donnell.

[Silver Raven]

14 minutes ago, callie lee 29 said:

NCIS LA has LL Cool J. Only person of color as a regular, but certainly a lead along with fellow original cast member Chris O"Donnell.

Miguel Ferrer was half Puerto Rican.

[callie lee 29]

Sniff. No Granger still make me sad...

[DearEvette]

CBS definitely has a formula.  Mostly procedural shows with an ensemble where cast turnover can be absorbed if necessary.  There'll be POC but the lead is always white (Elementary excepted).  The CSI/NCSI's are a template for the shows. 

They put their POC leads behind a paywall.  The Good Fight has Cush Jumbo as a named lead and is set in a black law firm.  And of course the new Star Trek will have Sonequa  Martin Green --  both on the CBS All Access only.

[Raja]

45 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

CBS definitely has a formula.  Mostly procedural shows with an ensemble where cast turnover can be absorbed if necessary.  There'll be POC but the lead is always white (Elementary excepted).  The CSI/NCSI's are a template for the shows. 

They put their POC leads behind a paywall.  The Good Fight has Cush Jumbo as a named lead and is set in a black law firm.  And of course the new Star Trek will have Sonequa  Martin Green --  both on the CBS All Access only.

Does that mean we were duty bound to support Rush Hour ;)

[jhlipton]

I watch Hawaii 5-0 and I'd say that Daniel and Grace are definitely leads (Grace carried the A plot on one of the last episodes, and both have had a number of "centric" stories (last season was all about Chin's brother and Kono's husband, so they both got a lot of screen-time).

Superior Donuts (which seems to be a remake of Chico and the Man) has a black kid as the lead.

I do agree that CBS is well behind the other nets (and far behind SyFy) in casting diversity.

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

the new Star Trek will have Sonequa  Martin Green

There are apparently a lot of problems with "Into Darkness" -- it may not even get made.

The difference between a lead and a regular is often a fine line -- many characters have bounced from one side to the other.  It would be deliciously amusing if Wunmi Mosaku and Ricardo Chavira had greater audience appeal than Montgomery and Giuntoli.

[Dee]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

CBS definitely has a formula.  Mostly procedural shows with an ensemble where cast turnover can be absorbed if necessary.  There'll be POC but the lead is always white (Elementary excepted).  The CSI/NCSI's are a template for the shows. 

Pretty much. That was a big part of the drama surrounding Person Of Interest. The show was supposedly centered around three leads, one being a woman of color, yet when it came time to promote the show the only characters featured in the ads were the two white male actors.

[Trini]

10 hours ago, callie lee 29 said:

NCIS LA has LL Cool J. Only person of color as a regular, but certainly a lead along with fellow original cast member Chris O"Donnell.

People always forget my man LL! I know it's NCIS, but still.
 

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Pretty much. That was a big part of the drama surrounding Person Of Interest. The show was supposedly centered around three leads, one being a woman of color, yet when it came time to promote the show the only characters featured in the ads were the two white male actors.

I like to use the "dvd test" when figuring out who the leads/important characters are. Which characters got put on the DVD cover? More than one? Which is/are most prominent?

[proserpina65]

On ‎03‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 0:09 AM, jhlipton said:

I really don't understand what's going on at CBS.  According to the shows Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/mission_contrl), a Nigerian-born British actress named Wunmi Mosaku is also one of the regulars.  So is Ricardo Chavira (Carlos Solis on Desperate Housewives , and a much bigger name than Montgomery or Giuntoli). So the show will have a black regular and a Hispanic regular, just "gender-bent" from the original!

Why didn't they announce this first and show the diversity is real? Montgomery and Giuntoli aren't as news-worthy as CBS putting its money where its mouth is?

Wunmi Mosaku was in Vera, and was really good, so I might make an effort to at least see the first few episodes.

14 hours ago, DearEvette said:

There'll be POC but the lead is always white (Elementary excepted).  The CSI/NCSI's are a template for the shows. 

One of the two leads on NCIS: LA is black.  But that's the only other exception I can think of.

[xaxat]

On 3/31/2017 at 3:06 AM, Trini said:

I like to use the "dvd test" when figuring out who the leads/important characters are. Which characters got put on the DVD cover? More than one? Which is/are most prominent?

On CBS' promo page for their prime time shows, with one exception (Halle Berry in the now canceled Extant), all of the POC are featured as part of a pair or an ensemble. (ETA Oops, I missed Julie Chen.)

On 3/30/2017 at 10:09 PM, DearEvette said:

They put their POC leads behind a paywall.  The Good Fight has Cush Jumbo as a named lead and is set in a black law firm.  And of course the new Star Trek will have Sonequa  Martin Green --  both on the CBS All Access only.

This actually might be a cynical bet on CBS's part on the future of diversity in media. Leave broadcast TV to the older, white watchers while targeting a younger, more diverse population that is drifting away from cable, for their next major business venture.

Kind of like how Fox built their network on the ratings of shows like  In Living Color, Martin, 21 Jump Street etc.

Edited April 1, 2017 by xaxat

[jhlipton]

I am so pissed at Legends of Tomorrow.  Throughout this season, they've made the black female lead strong, fearless and an essential part of the team.  In the second to last episode of the season, they literally "fridged" her for DRAMA.  No. Just no.  I'm out.

=====================================================

Why is the oh-so-white (except for Peter Mensah) Midnight Texas (it's like True Blood but duller apparently) on NBC and the awesome diverse cast of Hap and Leonard languishing on Sundance?

Edited April 1, 2017 by jhlipton

[possibilities]

This might be a stupid question, but I'm asking anyway.

I'm seeing "Rebel" referred to as a "blaxploitation" show.

Yes, it has Black people in it, including the lead. Is that really all it takes to get the label?

[Joimiaroxeu]

12 minutes ago, possibilities said:

This might be a stupid question, but I'm asking anyway.

I'm seeing "Rebel" referred to as a "blaxploitation" show.

Yes, it has Black people in it, including the lead. Is that really all it takes to get the label?

When I watched it I immediately thought they were doing an homage to Pam Grier back in her Coffy and Foxy Brown days. That was in the 70s which was the height of the blaxploitation era. The term doesn't really apply anymore except perhaps to the Madea movies. ?

[Dee]

Marvel VP of Sales Says Fans Seem Uninterested in Diversity or Female Characters

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Marvel VP of Sales Says Fans Seem Uninterested in Diversity or Female Characters

The big deal is that the movies have made their catalogs suddenly among the hottest properties on Earth. So they thought let's take a 55 year old character and gender swap him and thus a new generation will come running to buy comics. But it  didn't work, how can that be? stunt casting, or the comics equivalent only worked for and because of Samuel L. Jackson. Just having a big enough name isn't enough, the actor had to fit the specific role. So a Ryan Reynolds fails as the more famous character and has a career comeback on a relatively minor player

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:09 PM, DearEvette said:

They put their POC leads behind a paywall.  The Good Fight has Cush Jumbo as a named lead and is set in a black law firm.  And of course the new Star Trek will have Sonequa  Martin Green --  both on the CBS All Access only.

The Good Fight has so many black actors in the main cast - 5 (2 women, 3 men including the great Delroy Lindo) - and it's literally about a black law firm and more black actors keep guesting and revolving - and I love that - but it's an expensive show to watch.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

The Good Fight has just been renewed for Season 2, wow!

[DearEvette]

On 3/31/2017 at 9:21 PM, jhlipton said:

I am so pissed at Legends of Tomorrow.  Throughout this season, they've made the black female lead strong, fearless and an essential part of the team.  In the second to last episode of the season, they literally "fridged" her for DRAMA.  No. Just no.  I'm out.

I was so bummed about Amaya, but I had hope when they restored reality she would be fine in the finale. And yay! she is.  As a matter of fact all of the Legends died in that timeline.  She was just the first.  But she is coming back next season. So whew!!

[possibilities]

On 4/2/2017 at 5:42 PM, Dee said:

Marvel VP of Sales Says Fans Seem Uninterested in Diversity or Female Characters

Code Switch did an episode this week, where they talked about this very issue, and guess what? It's BS, of course. You can, indeed, sell stories that aren't whitewashed, male dominated, and stupid: http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch

Scroll to the April 5th installment: Changing Colors In Comics.

[jhlipton]

Here's Twitter post about the "white narratives" in POC-focused shows:

I'll be back with my thoughts tomorrow...

[DearEvette]

Decided to pop back in to check out Riverdale to see if the show had gotten any better with representation.  Nope.  Seems to have gotten worse.  Here are two interesting articles here is one from Bustle   and  here is one from nerds of color.

[phoenics]

Has anyone heard about the controversy of that mini series by John Ridley and Idris Elba about the black power movement in the UK?  Where they cast a black male lead and then Freda freakin PINTO as the female lead?  And the ONLY black woman basically is a "traitor"?  In a video with the producers and the cast, they asked Ridley why and he said because he's in an interracial relationship and that the black power movement only meant he needed to cast a strong woman of color.

What. the. FUCK.

And several news outlets claimed that the journalist who asked the question - and then redirected the question when Ridley tried to sidestep the erasure of black women from THEIR OWN MOVEMENT - attacked Freda and Ridley.

When you see the video, you know that's NOT what happened.

I'm so angry I could spit.  So Ridley (fuck him) erased black women from their own place in history so he could see a reflection of his interracial relationship onscreen?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/12-years-a-slave-writer-defends-erasure-of-black-women-on-new-show-about-racism_us_58e7e585e4b05413bfe2df9a

I literally am so angry right now.

[Dee]

Ridley has a LONG history of being HORRIBLE when it comes to race so I'm not surprised.

[Oracle42]

He's a screenwriter. He could've written a fictional story about an interracial couple if he desperately needed to see that play out onscreen. Freda could have been a supporting character, but lead? Seriously? I'm so tired of this thing where black women are expected to give constant, unstinting support to feminist movements and black movements when those movements never prioritize black women 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Oracle42

[Irlandesa]

I also couldn't believe the other main actor asking the questioner in the audience if they had "been there" when they brought up the erasure.  I mean...really?  Does he really think all the main people were men?

Edited April 10, 2017 by Irlandesa

[phoenics]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I also couldn't believe the other main actor asking the questioner in the audience if they had "been there" when they brought up the erasure.  I mean...really?  Does he really think all the main people were men?

What makes it even more egregious is that the journalist (yeah, she was actually press) who asked the question?  Her BLACK MOTHER had been a big part of the black power movement... so when that other actor (rude) asked her that horrid question, he was literally talking to a daughter of an actual black (woman) power activist.

They were SO dismissive.