Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Minneapple]

21 hours ago, Trini said:

Not trying to excuse making the characters of color one-dimensional (again, I haven't watched) but I wasn't expecting much from Riverdale based on the source material and network.

 

20 hours ago, Trini said:

But speaking of CW; The Flash's last episode had a family meeting that had five black people with speaking roles (the most I've seen on any of the superhero shows) in one scene, and the lead was the only white person there. It was beautiful. Not sure how often that happens on CW. The decision to make the West family black has paid some dividends.

The source material of the Flash, just like the source material for Riverdale, is very white. The Flash creators made a conscious effort to create a more diverse cast. And it's been very much to the benefit of the show. The West family on The Flash is the best ever. I think Riverdale is trying, but it's going to take time.

3 hours ago, callie lee 29 said:

The Pussycats (Josie, Melody and Valerie, thank you Wikipedia) probably have had more screentime total than Jughead (definitely more than Reggie), which is a little surprising based on the comics. They didn't interact much with the Archie characters, unless it was a story where they were featured. I do have a suspesion they and/or the Mayor, aka Josie's mom, will be more heavily featured later. Robin Givens is playing her and I would think they'll play up that name recognition. Right now she's only had a couple of brief cameos. 

I know this has been mentioned before, but one of the best shows for diversity (IMO) on a major network is The Good Place. I'm going to be supre pissed if they cancel it. 

The Pussycats may have had more sheer screentime but they haven't had any character development during that screentime. It's mostly been singing. I do hope you're right about Josie's mom, because yeah, Robin Givens.

As for The Good Place, it's already been renewed and I'm so glad. It's such a great show. The comedy is fun and quirky and the casting is brilliant. Definitely not a cookie-cutter network comedy.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, JustaPerson said:

I watched The Flash series not long ago on Netflix and made a really weird discovery that there were pretty much no asians on the show. Other than one temporary love interest who was played by a half asian actress who looked fairly western. Not even as one-line characters or extras. I didn't really realize it until I saw an asian lab technician with a couple lines in one of the season 1 Grodd episodes. It really soured me on a show I was becoming a bit disillusioned with anyway. 

Captain Singh, the police captain, is Indian* and is a recurring character. And there have been other Asians as extras; but I agree, it's been sparse at best.

*(not sure about the actor)

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, Trini said:

Captain Singh, the police captain, is Indian* and is a recurring character. And there have been other Asians as extras; but I agree, it's been sparse at best.

*(not sure about the actor)

He's Canadian and of Middle Eastern descent.

[topanga]

19 hours ago, allyw said:

I see many go to shows for Latino's diversity are the White ones. Are there any shows that features Black Latinos and explicitly states that that's what they are?

Among the shows I watch, there's Being Mary Jane, This is Us (with a large ensemble cast), Pitch, and Shades of Blue.  On This is Us and Shades of Blue, I don't recall anyone stating that Jon Huertas and Jennifer Lopez are Latino, but both of their characters have traditional Spanish names. 

ETA: I forgot about Superstore. America Ferrera explicitly states that she is Honduran. And one of the main characters in the ensemble cast is a black man. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by topanga

[evenstevensranked]

Has anyone mentioned The Walking Dead yet? The new "power couple" of the show as of exactly a year ago is Rick & Michonne. The white male lead and the black female lead. The response has been mostly positive, but it definitely has been a little polarizing. I know people on Facebook tend to be very opinionated, and sometimes downright stupid and wrong... but a lot of the comments on there are very transparent. People claim the two characters "Have no chemistry," "don't work together" or they "like them individually, but not as a couple" or "were better as friends." And of course, the ever popular "Michonne is a strong independent woman who don't need no man!" - These are all predictable responses from people who aren't conditioned to seeing interracial couples on TV or aren't fond of interracial couples in general. Some of them are straight up open racists. Yet, others are blind to their internalized racism. They're adamant that Rick and Michonne are wrong for each other, even though they probably make the most sense out of every couple ever on the show. Rick, his son Carl, daughter Judith, and Michonne have been functioning as a family for years. But, as soon as the show decided to rightfully add the romantic element between Rick & Michonne -- suddenly people aren't okay with it and are EXTREMELY vocal about their dislike. Using words like "gross" "disgusting" "wrong" and "disturbing" to describe the relationship. Very transparent, indeed. 

Has anyone mentioned the fact that it's more socially acceptable to have a White Man/Black Woman TV relationship as opposed to Black Man/White Woman? I think it's very clear that it's more acceptable because it's still very much a White Man's world. People respect the White Man. So, if he decides to be with a Black Woman.. then it's okay! But, people don't exactly respect the Black Man yet. Sadly. So, if a Black Man wants to be with a precious White Woman??? Oh, hell no! Pretty sad. 

Also, can we talk about how the Bachelorette has cast their first ever lead of color in a combined 33 SEASONS between The Bachelorette and The Bachelor?! 33 seasons of nothing but white leads. Wow. Now, a Black woman has been selected to be the desirable person.. which is awesome. But, of course Facebook people who don't get it are like "Why does she have to be the first Black bachelorette? Why can't she just be a bachelorette?! Don't bring race into this!" - Oh, sorry we can't acknowledge that it's taken THIRTY THREE COMBINED SEASONS to have a person of color be the desirable lead?!?! 

Okay, wow. I went on a rant here. Sorry! I'm new, lol. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by evenstevensranked

[Ohwell]

My issue with Rick and Michhonne on The Walking Dead is that Michonne was his confidant, his ride or die chick--until he met White Jessie, at which point he lost his shit and it was all about her.  Michonne had been right there by his side all along.  It wasn't until White Jessie became zombie chow that Michonne became a romantic interest.  In short, if Jessie hadn't died, he'd still be with her.   

[allyw]

17 hours ago, Dee said:

Gina Rodriguez is an afrolatina, despite the fact that Jane isn't.

 

3 hours ago, topanga said:

Among the shows I watch, there's Being Mary Jane, This is Us (with a large ensemble cast), Pitch, and Shades of Blue.  On This is Us and Shades of Blue, I don't recall anyone stating that Jon Huertas and Jennifer Lopez are Latino, but both of their characters have traditional Spanish names. 

ETA: I forgot about Superstore. America Ferrera explicitly states that she is Honduran. And one of the main characters in the ensemble cast is a black man. 

I think I was a bit unclear but what I meant was were there any characters that were Black Latino/a who specifically who look more like Gina Torres/ Christina Milian and Tatiyana Ali than the Jennifer Lopez/ Gina Rodriguez/ Sophia Vergara types who are usally the go to types when hollywood thinks "diversity" ?

48 minutes ago, evenstevensranked said:

Has anyone mentioned The Walking Dead yet? The new "power couple" of the show as of exactly a year ago is Rick & Michonne. The white male lead and the black female lead. The response has been mostly positive, but it definitely has been a little polarizing. I know people on Facebook tend to be very opinionated, and sometimes downright stupid and wrong... but a lot of the comments on there are very transparent. People claim the two characters "Have no chemistry," "don't work together" or they "like them individually, but not as a couple" or "were better as friends." And of course, the ever popular "Michonne is a strong independent woman who don't need no man!" - These are all predictable responses from people who aren't conditioned to seeing interracial couples on TV or aren't fond of interracial couples in general. Some of them are straight up open racists. Yet, others are blind to their internalized racism. They're adamant that Rick and Michonne are wrong for each other, even though they probably make the most sense out of every couple ever on the show. Rick, his son Carl, daughter Judith, and Michonne have been functioning as a family for years. But, as soon as the show decided to rightfully add the romantic element between Rick & Michonne -- suddenly people aren't okay with it and are EXTREMELY vocal about their dislike. Using words like "gross" "disgusting" "wrong" and "disturbing" to describe the relationship. Very transparent, indeed. 

Has anyone mentioned the fact that it's more socially acceptable to have a White Man/Black Women TV relationship as opposed to Black Man/White Women? I think it's very clear that it's more acceptable because it's still very much a White Man's world. People respect the White Man. So, if he decides to be with a Black Woman.. then it's okay! But, people don't exactly respect the Black Man yet. Sadly. So, if a Black Man wants to be with a precious White Woman??? Oh, hell no! Pretty sad. 

Also, can we talk about how the Bachelorette has cast their first ever lead of color in a combined 33 SEASONS between The Bachelorette and The Bachelor?! 33 seasons of nothing but white leads. Wow. Now, a Black woman has been selected to be the desirable person.. which is awesome. But, of course Facebook people who don't get it are like "Why does she have to be the first Black bachelorette? Why can't she just be a bachelorette?! Don't bring race into this!" - Oh, sorry we can't acknowledge that it's taken THIRTY THREE COMBINED SEASONS to have a person of color be the desirable lead?!?! 

Okay, wow. I went on a rant here. Sorry! I'm new, lol. 

I'm sure there are some people who dislike Rick and Michonne for legitimate reasons but I've seen some of what you're talking about. Many people like Michonne as the badass warrior but don't/won't see her as anything else. For them she's supposed to be just a killing machine and "friend" to White characters but should have no life of her own. There's also been some colorism with her as well because a dark skin woman can't possibly be attractive to anyone.

As for Black & White interracial couples I kinda thinks it's a cycle. My memories maybe off but for some reason I remember noticing more BM/WW than BW/WM couples as a kid in the 90s. However what I would like to see more of are BW/BM pairings as they do exist despite what the media tries to feed us.

And I have to be honest but the first time I saw the news for the Bachelorette, my first thought was "why is this show still on?" But after digesting the fact that it really took them 33 seasons to have a Black lead in this franchise and no other POC throughout its run, I was reminded that a lot of "diversity" talk are just talk. And some of those very liberal people who loves to scream that they have Black friends and voted for Obama just don't get it nor do they try to.

[evenstevensranked]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

My issue with Rick and Michhonne on The Walking Dead is that Michonne was his confidant, his ride or die chick--until he met White Jessie, at which point he lost his shit and it was all about her.  Michonne had been right there by his side all along.  It wasn't until White Jessie became zombie chow that Michonne became a romantic interest.  In short, if Jessie hadn't died, he'd still be with her.   

This is sort of true. I really hate that they even had to include the Jessie fling to begin with.. because those people with internalized racism are CLINGING to her! Saying "she never should've died!" "She could've been the love of Rick's life" "She's so much prettier than Michonne" "Michonne is nothing more than a rebound/booty call!" (which hurts my soul tbh) "Rick belonged with Jessie" etc, etc. When in reality, I think Jessie was Rick's belated rebound from Lori. Which is why after Jessie died, he was able to open up for real again. He never fully got Lori out of his system. Which is why they made a point to show Rick not put on his wedding ring in 6x10. Lori and Jessie were similar with the whole damsel in distress, housewife, safe/familiar image. Rick and Lori weren't equals and didn't exactly have the best marriage. In comparison.. Just look at what Rick/Jessie's "relationship" was like! He killed her husband, her son wanted to murder Carl and Rick, etc. Not very healthy. Yet people don't care. They still think Jessie would've been the better option. Which again, is very transparent to me. Because it makes no sense in comparison to what he and Michonne have built over the years. There are also so many people who insist Rick/Michonne came out of nowhere and they never saw it coming. I always say, that if it were White Jessie who dramatically showed up at the prison fence holding the basket of baby formula... people would've been shipping that immediately. Instead, people didn't even bat an eye. Pretty sad. I mean, all Jessie did was show up at Rick's house holding basket of toiletries, welcomed him to Alexandria, and proceeded to give him a haircut. That's all it took for people to be like "~OOOOHHH!~ They're gonna get together!! omg!" It sucks. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by evenstevensranked

[evenstevensranked]

34 minutes ago, allyw said:

 

I think I was a bit unclear but what I meant was were there any characters that were Black Latino/a who specifically who look more like Gina Torres/ Christina Milian and Tatiyana Ali than the Jennifer Lopez/ Gina Rodriguez/ Sophia Vergara types who are usally the go to types when hollywood thinks "diversity" ?

I'm sure there are some people who dislike Rick and Michonne for legitimate reasons but I've seen some of what you're talking about. Many people like Michonne as the badass warrior but don't/won't see her as anything else. For them she's supposed to be just a killing machine and "friend" to White characters but should have no life of her own. There's also been some colorism with her as well because a dark skin woman can't possibly be attractive to anyone.

As for Black & White interracial couples I kinda thinks it's a cycle. My memories maybe off but for some reason I remember noticing more BM/WW than BW/WM couples as a kid in the 90s. However what I would like to see more of are BW/BM pairings as they do exist despite what the media tries to feed us.

And I have to be honest but the first time I saw the news for the Bachelorette, my first thought was "why is this show still on?" But after digesting the fact that it really took them 33 seasons to have a Black lead in this franchise and no other POC throughout its run, I was reminded that a lot of "diversity" talk are just talk. And some of those very liberal people who loves to scream that they have Black friends and voted for Obama just don't get it nor do they try to.

Nah, definitely! I'm sure people have valid reasons for not liking Rick/Michonne and might personally prefer them with someone else. But, for the most part.. I don't really see how you couldn't be okay with it objectively. There are really no other romantic interests for Rick or Michonne that make as much sense. Yep! People treat Michonne as if she's just there to be badass and is unworthy of love. BUT! If she has to be with someone... people suggested Tyreese at one point -- and now everyone suggests Morgan or Ezekiel. All Black guys. Again... transparent. That's why I actually like the changes made from the Comic to the TV show. In the comic, Michonne did stick to only Black guys. I like they way they switched it up. And you're right about colorism. People who try to act like they're not racist in any way say "I wouldn't mind if Rick was with Sasha or something! It's just Michonne that's weird." - WHY?! When has Rick ever interacted with Sasha in a romantic way or built a relationship like Rick/Michonne have? It's because Sasha is lighter, and more "traditionally pretty" than Michonne, who is dark skinned and has African features. 

I'm actually biracial myself and the product of a White Woman/Black Man. I was also born in 1993. Haha. So, yeah. I think in actual life that pairing might have been popular at the time. But was it shown on TV a lot? Idk. Obviously, being biracial is a huge reason why I like seeing Black/White couples represented, especially when they actually cast a biracial actor to play their child, too. We exist!! Which is why I'm a little confused by what you said there.. You want to see more Black Woman/Black Man? I feel like that's all you ever see! In movies, TV, commercials, etc. They frequently divide races in media. 

I'm not exactly a fan of the premise of shows like the Bachelorette, but it's still kind of a big deal imo. Although, I unfortunately feel like they probably did it just to seem "progressive" given the current state of the country. Especially by announcing it while Rachel is STILL ON the Bachelor. It's like... Seriously? You want a pat on the back for being "progressive" about 30 seasons too late? lol. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by evenstevensranked

[allyw]

48 minutes ago, evenstevensranked said:

Nah, definitely! I'm sure people have valid reasons for not liking Rick/Michonne and might personally prefer them with someone else. But, for the most part.. I don't really see how you couldn't be okay with it objectively. There are really no other romantic interests for Rick or Michonne that make as much sense. Yep! People treat Michonne as if she's just there to be badass and is unworthy of love. BUT! If she has to be with someone... people suggested Tyreese at one point -- and now everyone suggests Morgan or Ezekiel. All Black guys. Again... transparent. That's why I actually like the changes made from the Comic to the TV show. In the comic, Michonne did stick to only Black guys. I like they way they switched it up. And you're right about colorism. People who try to act like they're not racist in any way say "I wouldn't mind if Rick was with Sasha or something! It's just Michonne that's weird." - WHY?! When has Rick ever interacted with Sasha in a romantic way or built a relationship like Rick/Michonne have? It's because Sasha is lighter, and more "traditionally pretty" than Michonne, who is dark skinned and has African features. 

I'm actually biracial myself and the product of a White Woman/Black Man. I was also born in 1993. Haha. So, yeah. I think in actual life that pairing might have been popular at the time. But was it shown on TV a lot? Idk. Obviously, being biracial is a huge reason why I like seeing Black/White couples represented, especially when they actually cast a biracial actor to play their child, too. We exist!! Which is why I'm a little confused by what you said there.. You want to see more Black Woman/Black Man? I feel like that's all you ever see! In movies, TV, commercials, etc. They frequently divide races in media. 

I'm not exactly a fan of the premise of shows like the Bachelorette, but it's still kind of a big deal imo. Although, I unfortunately feel like they probably did it just to seem "progressive" given the current state of the country. Especially by announcing it while Rachel is STILL ON the Bachelor. It's like... Seriously? You want a pat on the back for being "progressive" about 30 seasons too late? lol. 

Well maybe we're watching different things but yeah I don't see that many BW/BM relationships especially healthy ones represented on tv and I would like to see more of that. As for Rick and Michonne, while I'm a fan of them and can't really see either one of them with anyone else at this point, I do believe some people could objectively not like them. I've seen some people who dislike Rick and thinks that Michonne is too good for him and while I disagree, that's their prerogative.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, evenstevensranked said:

Has anyone mentioned the fact that it's more socially acceptable to have a White Man/Black Women TV relationship as opposed to Black Man/White Women?

LOL -- yes.  There was several weeks of chat over whether WM/BW or BM/WW was more common in the media, with WM/LW and BM/LW (where LW is a lighter Person of Color).  From my perspective, I see a lot more BM/WW and even more _M/LW (for both Black and White men) than BM/BW and that completely dwarfs WM/BF -- and that doesn't even begin to cover Asians!

In trying to find the discussion and in light of the Michonne talk above, it was noted that two of the most bad-ass black women were zombie hunters (Lt Roberta Warren on Z Nation was the other).

[xaxat]

Study confirms that TV shows with black leads aren’t just for black people

Quote

According to a new Nielsen study of what American television viewers are watching, a number of TV shows led by black actors, or those featuring plot lines explicitly focused on black people, have significantly large non-black audiences. . . . 

While this information might not initially sound all that surprising given the popularity of the shows, Nielsen’s numbers disprove one of the more pernicious and problematic stigmas attached to “black productions”—that they only appeal to black audiences and can’t be financially successful for studios.

[jhlipton]

12 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Nielsen’s numbers disprove one of the more pernicious and problematic stigmas attached to “black productions”—that they only appeal to black audiences and can’t be financially successful for studios.

This is GREAT news!

[gator12]

5 hours ago, allyw said:

And I have to be honest but the first time I saw the news for the Bachelorette, my first thought was "why is this show still on?" But after digesting the fact that it really took them 33 seasons to have a Black lead in this franchise and no other POC throughout its run, I was reminded that a lot of "diversity" talk are just talk. And some of those very liberal people who loves to scream that they have Black friends and voted for Obama just don't get it nor do they try to.

They did have Venezuelan Juan Pablo as the lead on the Bachelor, ABC claim to diversity. ABC now like to forget that he was ever on the show

Edited February 17, 2017 by gator12

[xaxat]

Apparently Trump's son in law went to Time Warner to whine about CNN's coverage of the president.

Quote

Mr. Kushner has taken issue with specific CNN contributors including Van Jones, a Democrat who served in the Obama administration, and Ana Navarro, a Republican strategist, who have each criticized Mr. Trump in harsh terms, the people familiar with the matter said.

I'm sure it's a total coincidence that the two people singled out by Kushner are POC.

[evenstevensranked]

3 hours ago, xaxat said:

Study confirms that TV shows with black leads aren’t just for black people

This is great news! People are already calling The Bachelorette "The Blackelorette" now. As if it will suddenly only appeal to Black people... 

[Trini]

6 hours ago, xaxat said:

Study confirms that TV shows with black leads aren’t just for black people

I guess this is good for people who need that hard data; but my first reaction was ... Well, duh?

I mean, if only black people watched shows with black leads, would The Cosby Show, The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, or even Empire have lasted so long?

[Joe]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

I guess this is good for people who need that hard data; but my first reaction was ... Well, duh?

I mean, if only black people watched shows with black leads, would The Cosby Show, The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, or even Empire have lasted so long?

For that matter, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine lasted seven years and is usually considered one of the top three Trek series. Admittedly it was Star Trek back in the 90s, it had both a dedicated audience and less competition. Say, what was the next space opera with a POC outright lead? BSG with Edward James Olmos, I suppose. From one of the same showrunners, which I don't think is coincidental.

[callie lee 29]

17 hours ago, xaxat said:

Study confirms that TV shows with black leads aren’t just for black people

Wait, I want supposed to be watching Fresh Price, It's a Different World,  the Cosny Show, New York Undercover, etc??? Does this hold for movies too, cause I'll need to change dinner movies I plan on seeing...

Seriously though, It's sad that people needed a study for this.

[xaxat]

I wonder when it became "conventional wisdom" that shows featuring black people primarily appeal to black people.

Norman Lear is (correctly) praised as one of the titans of television. And while he's remembered for All in the Family, he also had great success with Sanford and Son, Good Times and The Jeffersons. 

I know black people didn't drive the ratings for those shows. (Back when there were only three and a half channels.)

[phoenics]

On 2/16/2017 at 3:30 PM, evenstevensranked said:

Has anyone mentioned The Walking Dead yet? The new "power couple" of the show as of exactly a year ago is Rick & Michonne. The white male lead and the black female lead. The response has been mostly positive, but it definitely has been a little polarizing. I know people on Facebook tend to be very opinionated, and sometimes downright stupid and wrong... but a lot of the comments on there are very transparent. People claim the two characters "Have no chemistry," "don't work together" or they "like them individually, but not as a couple" or "were better as friends." And of course, the ever popular "Michonne is a strong independent woman who don't need no man!" - These are all predictable responses from people who aren't conditioned to seeing interracial couples on TV or aren't fond of interracial couples in general. Some of them are straight up open racists. Yet, others are blind to their internalized racism. They're adamant that Rick and Michonne are wrong for each other, even though they probably make the most sense out of every couple ever on the show. Rick, his son Carl, daughter Judith, and Michonne have been functioning as a family for years. But, as soon as the show decided to rightfully add the romantic element between Rick & Michonne -- suddenly people aren't okay with it and are EXTREMELY vocal about their dislike. Using words like "gross" "disgusting" "wrong" and "disturbing" to describe the relationship. Very transparent, indeed. 

Has anyone mentioned the fact that it's more socially acceptable to have a White Man/Black Woman TV relationship as opposed to Black Man/White Woman? I think it's very clear that it's more acceptable because it's still very much a White Man's world. People respect the White Man. So, if he decides to be with a Black Woman.. then it's okay! But, people don't exactly respect the Black Man yet. Sadly. So, if a Black Man wants to be with a precious White Woman??? Oh, hell no! Pretty sad. 

 

These "reasons" for not liking Rick and Michonne together are *nearly verbatim* the same as the reasons listed for:

1)  Spock and Uhura

2)  Barry and Iris

3)  Ichabod and Abbie

4)  Damon and Bonnie

Racists - both the overt ones and the ones who don't know their internalized racism is visible - are saying the same things for these couples - when that doesn't happen when the couples are both white.  Worse - the black women in the relationships - get a TON of hatred from fandom - a mix of racism and misogny (so misogynoir).  It's even worse when the black woman character is in a lead role - because a lot of fandoms simply expect white female characters to be centered - especially if there is ANOTHER white character on the show - many automatically start trying to get the writing teams to center the white woman character and erase the black woman character - even if the black woman character is the lead on the show.

And it may seem more acceptable for have a WM/BW pairing, but that doesn't protect the BW character from insane levels of hatred and misogynoir.

People are bringing up Iris West and the West Family on The Flash - but in S1 and S2, there was a huge danger of Iris simply being erased completely from the narrative.  Iris fans fought tooth and nail to have her centered as she should be and she's still not centered enough to be the lead actress for the show.

And there is always a chance that the producers/writers will revert to centering whiteness again - it's a compulsion that I'm sure they have to actively resist with every line of dialogue they write.  And honestly some of the fans desperate for the white female character to be centered (and paired with the lead) are banking on the producers/writers reverting to that status quo.

Edited February 18, 2017 by phoenics

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

These "reasons" for not liking Rick and Michonne together are *nearly verbatim* the same as the reasons listed for:

1)  Spock and Uhura

There's good reason to not like Spock and Uhura:  she and Sulu belong together!  "I assure you I am neither!"  LOL
(I haven't seen the new movies, so I didn't know about Spock and Uhura.)

[Pollock]

On 17/02/2017 at 1:18 AM, xaxat said:

Study confirms that TV shows with black leads aren’t just for black people

Well... duh? They needed a study to know that for sure? Is it to motivate announcers to advertise more on those shows maybe? 

[EDIT] part out of topic

For the Bachelorette, @lightbeam posted a really interesting article in its forum: http://www.npr.org/sections/monkeysee/2017/02/14/515168800/the-purely-accidental-lessons-of-the-first-black-bachelorette

Edited February 18, 2017 by Pollock

[phoenics]

7 hours ago, Pollock said:

Well... duh? They needed a study to know that for sure? Is it to motivate announcers to advertise more on those shows maybe? 

 

Yeah, so... I'm not thrilled with Barry and Iris but just because to me, having never read the comics and not being aware at first they were a mythic couple and all that, they are brother and sister first and foremost so, yikes. I know the rational, they're not blood and all but to me, the West-Allen family is a well... just that : a family, and one the most beautiful family ever, so I have a hard time with it. But hey, if their father doesn't see it like that, if they don't see it like that, I'm pretty sure I'll make peace with it one day! They're really cute together, that helps to erase the incestinmymind part of it, little by little!
 

I'm really struggling with how to respond to this because it feels like you didn't read what I posted or what I was responding to and instead reacted as though you had been hit personally by my comment.  The comment I quoted listed reasons why fans claimed to dislike Rick and Michonne - reasons that were simply internalized racism and racism.  I then added on to that with a list of BW/WM couples that have gotten the SAME kinds of "reasons to not like them together" that Rick and Michonne did, that collectively WM/WW couples don't get.

"Perceived" incest WAS NOT LISTED AT ALL.  AT ALL!

It feels like a derailment.

If your reasoning for not liking B/I weren't listed in the list I was responding to then you aren't implicated so you don't need to react as though you were.  

[xaxat]

WGN is producing a show featuring a Native American cast.

Quote

Looks like WGN America is moving quickly to turn DC/Vertigo comic Scalped into its next TV hit. The network has announced that actor Alex Meraz has been cast as the lead actor in the pilot.

Meraz will play Dashiell Bad Horse, who returns to the reservation after being estranged for many years. He quickly earns favor with Oglala Tribal Council president Lincoln Red Crow as a member of his Tribal Police Force, but Bad Horse has his own agenda that will inevitably pit him against Red Crow and his casino operation... as well as his own family. Meraz joins Lily Gladstone, who was recently cast as Red Crow’s daughter, Carol.

Is anyone familiar with the source material?

[phoenics]

8 hours ago, Pollock said:

For the Bachelorette, @lightbeam posted a really interesting article in its forum: http://www.npr.org/sections/monkeysee/2017/02/14/515168800/the-purely-accidental-lessons-of-the-first-black-bachelorette

This line right here got to the heart of the matter:  "So yes, it's interesting to see Rachel chosen as the Bachelorette. But watch for her list of suitors. Because that's where you'll get the hint about what the real rules are."

For as long as the show has aired they have claimed that the suitors were largely white because of "love preference", etc.. so if they cast mostly white guys for Rachel, we will know that's a crock of sh!t.  But we already know it is - Pretty sure it has NEVER crossed the show's mind to cast mostly black suitors for Rachel.  She might have more than usual, but they won't be more than 1/3 if that.

Edited February 18, 2017 by phoenics

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

 

WGN is producing a show featuring a Native American cast.

Quote

Looks like WGN America is moving quickly to turn DC/Vertigo comic Scalped into its next TV hit. The network has announced that actor Alex Meraz has been cast as the lead actor in the pilot.

Meraz will play Dashiell Bad Horse, who returns to the reservation after being estranged for many years. He quickly earns favor with Oglala Tribal Council president Lincoln Red Crow as a member of his Tribal Police Force, but Bad Horse has his own agenda that will inevitably pit him against Red Crow and his casino operation... as well as his own family. Meraz joins Lily Gladstone, who was recently cast as Red Crow’s daughter, Carol.

Is anyone familiar with the source material?

 

I'm not familiar with the source material, but the theme sounds somewhat like WGN's Outsider, which had a character who was estranged from his clan on the mountain for many years and then came back.  

[The Crazed Spruce]

2 hours ago, xaxat said:

WGN is producing a show featuring a Native American cast.

Is anyone familiar with the source material?

Haven't read Scalped myself, but I have seen some pretty favourable reviews of it.

[JustaPerson]

What about Shameless (US)? I think the couple who live next door are interracial (black woman/white man).

[DearEvette]

On 2/16/2017 at 3:45 PM, Ohwell said:

My issue with Rick and Michhonne on The Walking Dead is that Michonne was his confidant, his ride or die chick--until he met White Jessie, at which point he lost his shit and it was all about her.  Michonne had been right there by his side all along.  It wasn't until White Jessie became zombie chow that Michonne became a romantic interest.  In short, if Jessie hadn't died, he'd still be with her.   

Jessie still being alive is irrelevant to the Rick and Michonne romance, though because she was pre-planned to die.   There was no long term in the cards for them anyway.  Also, I always felt she was some stand in for Lorie.  He went crazy for her because she made his protective instincts kick in. Since Rick spent the start of the ZA in a coma and it was Shane who protected Lorie (and Carl) and got them out, he missed all that.  Seeing Jessie in an environment like Alexandria which they could pretend was pre-ZA and  in need of protection from her wife beating husband.  I  think he made her Lorie in his head somehow.  But she was ultimately weak when it mattered.  She just stood there and cried and let herself become Zombie chow.  Meanwhile Michonne was the one who was killing folk to protect Carl.  Opened his eyes to the fact that the world they live in now, women like Jessie can't thrive.  She was his transition chick who was used to open his eyes to see the woman in front of him who could stand with him.  Also he didn't even mourn her ass.

 

On 2/16/2017 at 6:28 PM, allyw said:

Well maybe we're watching different things but yeah I don't see that many BW/BM relationships especially healthy ones represented on tv and I would like to see more of that.

This is why I love This is Us.  Randal and Beth are fantastic as a couple.  Very healthy black marriage.  Also, the Murtaughs on Lethal Weapon and finally Blip and Evelyn on Pitch.  While it is the husbands who are the main characters on the shows, the wives get a LOT of agency.  I was so happily surprised about how much of a fully realized character  Evelyn is on Pitch that I could do cartwheels!  Ditto with Beth.  Trish on Lethal Weapon, I already expected her to have a larger role so she wasn;t as much of a surprise and Evelyn and Beth.  But I am just loving how strong the portrayals of these marriages are.

1 hour ago, JustaPerson said:

What about Shameless (US)? I think the couple who live next door are interracial (black woman/white man).

Man, I loved Kevin and Vi.  They were such a fun, raunchy, sexy couple.  But then the show made them a throuple with this Svetlana chick.  Ugh.  I don't have an issue with polyamory.  But I just loved Kevin and Vi's vibe as a couple.  I feel their chemistry was ruined for me by the addition of the her into their lives.

[Dee]

Shameless writers treat Veronica like trash (especially in comparison to Kevin).

The only reason the character remains remotely viable is because Shanola Hampton is amazingly talented.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Dee

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

This is why I love This is Us.  Randal and Beth are fantastic as a couple.  Very healthy black marriage.  {A}nd finally Blip and Evelyn on Pitch.  While it is the husbands who are the main characters on the shows, the wives get a LOT of agency.  I was so happily surprised about how much of a fully realized character  Evelyn is on Pitch that I could do cartwheels!  Ditto with Beth.  .... I am just loving how strong the portrayals of these marriages are.

Since I don't watch Lethal Weapon, I edited that part out, but I totally agree with you about the other couples.  I love Beth.  Early on, either she or Randall said she was uncensored and they've let her be, for good or ill.  She is the force that Randall needs, and I love her. 

I also like that Evelyn gets to make her own decisions, and that Pip isn't just "the boss".  She and the kids were looking forward to a vacation, and if Pip couldn't be there, that's what Skype was for.  They had given up so much for him -- now it was their turn.

[Miss Dee]

Did anyone catch Trevor Noah on The View Friday? He had some thoughts on racism in America that I found really thought provoking. One, that the covert and coded nature of racism in America in one sense makes it more difficult to deal with than the more blatant kind that he grew up with in South Africa. Two, that racism can (and maybe should) be treated as a disease, something people are injected with through constant reinforcement in their early development, and therefore it can theoretically be treated on an individual basis (my interpretation so forgive me if I've misunderstood). 

[jhlipton]

3 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

One, that the covert and coded nature of racism in America in one sense makes it more difficult to deal with than the more blatant kind that he grew up with in South Africa.

Systemic racism is so much harder to deal with since so many people just can't see it.  Case in point: Target had this cute Valentine's Day card for Dad that showed all the icky dads the kid may have gotten, then the great one that they did.  The problem:  all the icky dads are black or tan and the great dad is white.  (Target pulled the cards and "sent them to our buyers to handle.")  But... one people said "it's amazing to see how prejudiced and judgemental libs are. Closet racists".  Yeeeesh!

[selkie]

On 2/17/2017 at 10:05 PM, jhlipton said:

There's good reason to not like Spock and Uhura:  she and Sulu belong together!  "I assure you I am neither!"  LOL
(I haven't seen the new movies, so I didn't know about Spock and Uhura.)

Or alternately Uhura and Chekov.

And there are those of us who Have Issues about gender and how when the single Strong Female Character gets partnered up, the writing doesn't seem to really know how to finesse it and the relationship seems to diminish what a lot of people thought was interesting about her to begin with. Olivia Dunham never totally stopped being badass in Fringe, but over time and as she got partnered with Peter, she often seemed to stop being the series lead and was shoved into the background in favor of the Walter & Peter show. 

I'm one of those people who bailed on TWD because of the sadism at the start of last season, so can't comment on how they're handling Michonne/Rick, but from just hearing about it, my first reaction is to wonder how they're going to dumb Michonne down in the name of  twu wuv smack in the middle of a zombie apocalypse because the writers on that show never seemed to do well with subtle and complex. 

[Trini]

On 2/17/2017 at 8:26 PM, phoenics said:

People are bringing up Iris West and the West Family on The Flash - but in S1 and S2, there was a huge danger of Iris simply being erased completely from the narrative.  Iris fans fought tooth and nail to have her centered as she should be and she's still not centered enough to be the lead actress for the show.

True. Season 3 has been so refreshing, because in Season 2, Iris was barely there for 2/3s of it. (With literally less than 30 seconds of screentime for one episode!)

[Trini]

As for Spock/Uhura, while I had never really considered them together before, putting them together just made so much sense to me. ::shrug:: One of the very few things I liked about NuTrek.

[jhlipton]

18 hours ago, Trini said:

As for Spock/Uhura, while I had never really considered them together before, putting them together just made so much sense to me. ::shrug:: One of the very few things I liked about NuTrek.

There are lots of little "throwaways" in Original Recipe Trek to indicate that Spock and Uhura were friends (moreso than even Spock and Kirk), and according to some sources, Roddenberry planned for Spock to have That Kiss, but "my understanding is Bill Shatner took one look at the scene and said, ‘No you will not! If anyone's going to be part of the first interracial kiss in television history, it's going to be me!' So they rewrote it." according to Nichelle Nichols.

More... from an interview with Nichelle Nichols

Quote

{G}o back to my participation in Star Trek as Uhura and Leonard (Nimoy) as Spock. There was always a connection between Uhura and Spock. It was the early 60’s, so you couldn’t do what you can do now, but if you will remember, Uhura related to Spock. When she saw the captain lost in space out there in her mirror, it was Spock who consoled her when she went screaming out of her room. When Spock needed an expert to help save the ship, you remember that Uhura put something together and related back to him the famous words, “I don’t know if I can do this. I’m afraid.” And Uhura was the only one who could do a spoof on Spock. Remember the song (in “Charlie X”)? Those were the hints, as far as I’m concerned.

[phoenics]

On 2/18/2017 at 10:29 PM, Miss Dee said:

Did anyone catch Trevor Noah on The View Friday? He had some thoughts on racism in America that I found really thought provoking. One, that the covert and coded nature of racism in America in one sense makes it more difficult to deal with than the more blatant kind that he grew up with in South Africa. Two, that racism can (and maybe should) be treated as a disease, something people are injected with through constant reinforcement in their early development, and therefore it can theoretically be treated on an individual basis (my interpretation so forgive me if I've misunderstood). 

I wish I had caught this because my mom and I kinda debate this a lot.  She tends to downplay any racial things I have to deal with because to her, since the person cannot get away with it by law, it shouldn't affect me.  She, obviously, had to deal with fighting for her own rights, so to her, racial micro-aggressions mean very little.  I tried to explain to her that I didn't grow up needing to fight for my rights, but I did grow up with micro-aggressions being tossed at me and they got worse as I got older.  I said that micro-aggressions do have an impact on people and that they get into your head and also can be indicative of discrimination against you - it's like a fog you know is there but you can't get your hands around it.  It's exhausting.  

I actually am relieved so many have done research in this area to even identify things like "micro-aggressions", "covert racism", "intersectionality", "centering whiteness" - because I've felt these things or the impact of them my whole life but never had words to specifically describe or talk about them.  It's almost a relief to simply be able to NAME something that previously was just "a fog".

[Miss Dee]

@phoenics, I caught it as a video on Facebook. Let me search around my news feed - I'm sure I shared it - and I'll either post the link here or I'll PM you with it.

[phoenics]

39 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

@phoenics, I caught it as a video on Facebook. Let me search around my news feed - I'm sure I shared it - and I'll either post the link here or I'll PM you with it.

Thanks Miss Dee!

[Miss Dee]

Hopefully this works....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDQFTb1CWqM

[jhlipton]

On 2/20/2017 at 8:25 AM, phoenics said:

I actually am relieved so many have done research in this area to even identify things like "micro-aggressions", "covert racism", "intersectionality", "centering whiteness".

It took me a long time to get "woke" -- my parents raised me to be what idiots on the right deride as an "SJW" (as if there's something wrong with fighting for social justice!), but even they weren't fully tuned to how deep systemic racism and misogyny goes.

Second, micro-aggregations are still aggregations.  It's right there in the word!

[phoenics]

On 2/20/2017 at 0:12 PM, Miss Dee said:

Hopefully this works....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDQFTb1CWqM

It did!  Thank you!  I just love Trevor Noah.  Such a great perspective - when he was talking about how covert racism can be so tough to deal with, did you see Whoopi get all excited, lol!!

[possibilities]

On 2/16/2017 at 0:50 PM, topanga said:

I forgot about Superstore. America Ferrera explicitly states that she is Honduran. And one of the main characters in the ensemble cast is a black man.

The ensemble also has Mateo, a gay undocumented Filipino man played by Nico Santos, and Sandra, played by Kaliko Kauahi-- Sandra was recurring in the beginning but has been getting more and more integrated into the ensemble and has been featured in all of the recent episodes.

None of this does anything for the problem of colorism, and the representation of dark-skinned Black women, however, which is I think a major, on-going problem on TV.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

None of this does anything for the problem of colorism, and the representation of dark-skinned Black women, however, which is I think a major, on-going problem on TV.

Gee, ya think????  

#SorryNotSorry

[DearEvette]

Watched a new show on NBC called Taken,  which is the prequel-but-not-really-but-origin-story of the Liam Neeson character of the movies.  To my surprise it is actually quite good.  Also a nice multicultural cast, (there is also an Asian actor not pictured on the cast page who is on the CIA team)  I especially liked Jennifer Beals's character who  plays the cool-as-frost leader of the shady CIA team that recruits him and Gaius Charles who I had only seen in Friday Night Lights and Grey's Anatomy.  His character is more menacing and forceful in this. 

The action and fight sequences are great and I read that Luc Besson is an exec producer so he is involved in the show.

Edited March 4, 2017 by DearEvette

[topanga]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Watched a new show on NBC called Taken,  which is the prequel-but-not-really-but-origin-story of the Liam Neeson character of the movies.  To my surprise it is actually quite good.  Also a nice multicultural cast, (there is also an Asian actor not pictured on the cast page who is on the CIA team)  I especially liked Jennifer Beals's character who  plays the cool-as-frost leader of the shady CIA team that recruits him and Gaius Charles who I had only seen in Friday Night Lights and Grey's Anatomy.  His character is more menacing and forceful in this. 

The action and fight sequences are great and I read that Luc Besson is an exec producer so he is involved in the show.

Wow. I'd never even heard of it. I'll certainly have to look it up. I've always loved Jennifer Beals

[paulvdb]

There was some discussion a couple of weeks ago about the lack of screentime for Josie and the Pussycats on Riverdale. Last week Valerie started to get more to do and this week Josie also got a storyline of her own. I think it was the first time Josie had scenes with her mother the mayor and we were also introduced to Josie's father. I don't know if this is the beginning of a more prominent role for Josie and Valerie or if they'll go back to joining the third Pussycat as basically nameless background characters.

[jhlipton]

10 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Watched a new show on NBC called Taken,  which is the prequel-but-not-really-but-origin-story of the Liam Neeson character of the movies.  To my surprise it is actually quite good.  Also a nice multicultural cast, (there is also an Asian actor not pictured on the cast page who is on the CIA team)  I especially liked Jennifer Beals's character who  plays the cool-as-frost leader of the shady CIA team that recruits him and Gaius Charles who I had only seen in Friday Night Lights and Grey's Anatomy.  His character is more menacing and forceful in this. 

The action and fight sequences are great and I read that Luc Besson is an exec producer so he is involved in the show.

And a bi-racial woman (Brooklyn Sudano, Donna Summers's daughter), too, because the skies will part and the earth will crack if they cast a black woman.  Hard pass.