Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Pollock]

7 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Why?  Are people unaware that she is half black?

I was before this year when I saw her in the Late Show and Colbert said she is Quincy Jones's daughter. To my defense: she wears the same first name as my mother who is 100% moroccan, so I just assumed she was from arab descent. 

[After7Only]

On 6/14/2016 at 1:28 PM, Rick Kitchen said:

I could see somebody complaining if Rashida Jones was trying to play a black character.  Am I out of line there?

Unless the character expressly said otherwise, I'd assume Rashida Jones is always playing a black character.  There have always been "Black" people who look like Rashida.  So while she shouldn't play Michelle Obama in her biopic, she could a fictional member of any Black/biraical family.  

11 hours ago, Pollock said:

I was before this year when I saw her in the Late Show and Colbert said she is Quincy Jones's daughter. To my defense: she wears the same first name as my mother who is 100% moroccan, so I just assumed she was from arab descent. 

In the 70s/80s Arabic names were pretty common in the Black community.  Rashida, Fatima, Malikah, Raheem, Malik...

[DearEvette]

There is this great interview in Glamour magazine several years ago with Peggy Lipton, Rashida Jones and Kidada Jones.  And it talks about the different experiences Rashida and Kidada had growing up because Kidada was darker skinned that Rashida.  When they were kids they went to an all white school, where Rashida blended better and Kidada felt alienated.  When they got older, Kidada had really embraced her blackness and felt more accepted by black people.  Rashida, otoh, had the more betwixt & between experience as they got older.  Interestingly after Quincy and Peggy got divorced Kidada lived with Quincy but Rashida stayed with Peggy.  You get the sense that even though Rashida never, ever denies being biracial she does feel a bit more connected to her Jewish side.

Anyway, it is a fascinating interview and delves into the issues of identity as experienced by these two women in a much more complex and nuanced way than I could begin to summarize.

[LydiaMoon1]

Quote

So you're only "really black" if you're darker than a paper bag, I get it now.

Quote

Not what I said.  I'm not saying that Maya isn't black.  I'm saying that there is a dearth of black actresses across the board and SNL in particular has a history of not having any.  If they have one now, I'm happy for that, But in 40 years, how many have they had? 

And Maya looks as much like Oprah as Zoe Saldana looks like Nina Simone. 

The core argument here is larger than individual actresses like Maya or Rashida.  Black, brown, light, and biracial women who identify as black are all black, but dark-skinned black women overwhelmingly bear the negative impact of The Trifecta: racism, sexism, and colorism.  When you remove shows produced by Shonda Rhimes or Mara Brock Akil or a select few other black women, women with black and brown tones are very underrepresented in the media.  So while my light-skinned sisters are still my sisters, the media continues the reprehensible practice of presenting the face of black womanhood predominately as 50 shades of beige.

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

 So while my light-skinned sisters are still my sisters, the media continues the reprehensible practice of presenting the face of black womanhood predominately as 50 shades of beige.

Agreed. There need to be more examples of women on the darker end than on the lighter end. Because that's how we look outside of Hollywood. 

[zxy556575]

7 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

So while my light-skinned sisters are still my sisters, the media continues the reprehensible practice of presenting the face of black womanhood predominately as 50 shades of beige.

I'm not arguing your point, but some people sure seem to internalize that. I've seen three instances recently of black people on TV who mentioned their own skin tones in comparison to other blacks. One was Sinbad on @midnight who made a spontaneous joke (i.e., unrelated to anything that was being discussed on the show) that the panelists were lined up according to skin color -- a white person, him, then a darker-skinned black person. The other two comments were from people on talk shows.

I need to do some reading about colorism. I just finished a memoir set in India, which also has widespread discrimination wrt to skin tones. It's all quite disturbing to me.

I can't think of anything analogous in Caucasian culture. Is there? We put people down for looks, weight, speech patterns, behaviors, etc., but those prejudices also cross racial lines. I've certainly been told over the course of my life that I need to get some sun, but I don't think it works the other way.

Interesting conversation, thanks.

Edited June 16, 2016 by lordonia

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

I'm not arguing your point, but some people sure seem to internalize that. I've seen three instances recently of black people on TV who mentioned their own skin tones in comparison to other blacks.

It's always interesting to see where people place themselves on the spectrum of skin colors too. It's a touchy subject for sure. Even as a black girl, I get called out when I am wrong. My cousin asked what celebrity wore pretty makeup that she could be inspired by, and I told her Viola Davis looked great at a recent red carpet event. She didn't reply for over a week because I had compared her to someone "so much" darker than her. I found this out from her sister. I just really liked her makeup. I wasn't suggesting they had identical tones, or even similar ones. 

To add some context, I am the lightest member of my family and would be CRAZY offended if they suggested I wear the same makeup as Keri Russel. Even if I am very close to her skin tone, I'll sit firmly in denial-ville all the days of my life. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by BoogieBurns

[Bastet]

The Fosters quickly became unwatchable to me for all the teens' stories, but back when I was still watching (first season), there was a really interesting discussion/argument between Lena (bi-racial, with a black mom and white dad) and her mom about colorism.  I'd never seen it addressed so openly on TV before.

[Rick Kitchen]

There is a light-skinned, dark-haired actress on Days of Our Lives which has never mentioned anything about her heritage, but her father, who appeared in one episode, was played by African-American actor Real Andrews, and her aunt is played by a light-skinned African American actress.  We haven't seen her mother, so we don't know if she's supposed to be mixed race.  I saw an interview with the actress, who said she was surprised when they brought in the actor to play her father, but not upset.  She said she's Mexican.

[Rick Kitchen]

Hm.  Don't know why that posted twice.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Rick Kitchen

[atomationage]

Quote

I can't think of anything analogous in Caucasian culture. Is there?

GIngers?  The red-headed step-child?  I lived in Florida for many years, and many people were grossed out by the pale white legs of tourists who rarely go out in the sun back home in Canada or the UK. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by atomationage

[zxy556575]

7 minutes ago, atomationage said:

GIngers?  The red-headed step-child? 

Ha! Perhaps. Too pale, too freckled.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

To add some context, I am the lightest member of my family and would be CRAZY offended if they suggested I wear the same makeup as Keri Russel. Even if I am very close to her skin tone, I'll sit firmly in denial-ville all the days of my life. 

Heh! You and my mom; she is bi-racial and just about light enough to "pass", but she never buys the pantyhose that actually matches her skin tone.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Heh! You and my mom; she is bi-racial and just about light enough to "pass", but she never buys the pantyhose that actually matches her skin tone.

I'm old enough to remember that, once upon a time, there were only two shades of pantyhose for black women.  There was a shade called Red Fox (an ugly reddish-brown shade), and then there was off-black.  Then I think it was Hanes that started making different shades of brown.     

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

The Fosters quickly became unwatchable to me for all the teens' stories, but back when I was still watching (first season), there was a really interesting discussion/argument between Lena (bi-racial, with a black mom and white dad) and her mom about colorism.  I'd never seen it addressed so openly on TV before.

I remember watching Frank's Place, like a million years ago and Frank wanted to join a men's club but he had to pass the paper bag test.  I recall that because I was mentally looking around wondering if we should be airing our dirty laundry for all to see.  Of course I was in my living room alone, but you get the drift.

And I want to say that maybe A Different World  but I might have imagined that.  I do remember an episode where they talked about Whitley's family owning slaves.

[BoogieBurns]

I remember being prepared for the paper bag test before I went off to college. My parents weren't sure if it still happened, but they said if it did, it means I do not want to be associated with that group. I was in college in 2005, as far as I know it hadn't happened in 30 or so years. It seems like A Different World had a special episode about this because I vaguely remember it too.

[selkie]

Quote

Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series

I know the books got optioned a while back, so would someone in UK television go ahead and make the tv series already? Surely there's got to be a young black British actor who could do action-snark-comedy well enough to make Peter on screen his own. And Aaronovich has done enough tv scriptwriting he'd be an asset to bringing what so many people loved about the books to the screen.

[jhlipton]

22 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

Black, brown, light, and biracial women who identify as black are all black, but dark-skinned black women overwhelmingly bear the negative impact of The Trifecta: racism, sexism, and colorism.  When you remove shows produced by Shonda Rhimes or Mara Brock Akil or a select few other black women, women with black and brown tones are very underrepresented in the media.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.  And it continues -- most of the new shows have light-skinned female lead and the networks call it "diversity".  TPTB on Sleepy Hollow killed the last black female lead in a Science Fiction or Fantasy show, but steadfastly refuse to see the racism involved.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

I agree wholeheartedly with this.  And it continues -- most of the new shows have light-skinned female lead and the networks call it "diversity".  TPTB on Sleepy Hollow killed the last black female lead in a Science Fiction or Fantasy show, but steadfastly refuse to see the racism involved.

Well most genre shows are being produced by Canadians and Britons so that one is not on us.

[jhlipton]

45 minutes ago, Raja said:

Well most genre shows are being produced by Canadians and Britons so that one is not on us.

 

Supernatural, all of the DC shows, Agents of SHIELD (and Agent Carter) -- all are American shows, wherever they may be shot, and there is, at most, one or two dark women among them.  Furthermore, all of the big 5 are American-owned, so they are the ones responsible.  Finally, we're talking about shows that air in America, so I, for one, don't give a crap about where they're produced. 

So, no, we are in no way off the hook.

[Neurochick]

On 6/16/2016 at 11:29 AM, LydiaMoon1 said:

Black, brown, light, and biracial women who identify as black are all black, but dark-skinned black women overwhelmingly bear the negative impact of The Trifecta: racism, sexism, and colorism.  When you remove shows produced by Shonda Rhimes or Mara Brock Akil or a select few other black women, women with black and brown tones are very underrepresented in the media.  So while my light-skinned sisters are still my sisters, the media continues the reprehensible practice of presenting the face of black womanhood predominately as 50 shades of beige.

This is true, but I still find it interesting.  I remember in the 1970's, if you were light skinned you could NOT get a job in Hollywood because they wanted black women who looked black, playing black women; I guess that was done so no one would get confused as to who was black and who wasn't.

I think what changed was that there are more mixed and biracial people in the US than in the 1970's, there are also different POC in the US than there were in the 1970's.  Also, people kind of realize that you don't have to be brown skinned in order to be black. 

But the downside of that is, actresses (and I see this more with women than with men) will be cast who have more "white" or Caucasian features than "black features, so basically the standard of beauty remains the same. 

I read on a blog how upset some black women were when Viola Davis took her make up in that scene from "How To Get Away With Murder" because they felt a white actress wouldn't be asked to appear on TV 'all natural.'  I thought that was an interesting observation.

[jhlipton]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

I think what changed was that there are more mixed and biracial people in the US than in the 1970's, there are also different POC in the US than there were in the 1970's.  Also, people kind of realize that you don't have to be brown skinned in order to be black. 

But the downside of that is, actresses (and I see this more with women than with men) will be cast who have more "white" or Caucasian features than "black features, so basically the standard of beauty remains the same.

Good points.  I hadn't really thought about there being more mixed (and naturally lighter-skinned like people from South America, India and the Middle East) so it's somewhat fitting that they get more representation.  What's not fitting is that they get at the expense of darker women, never lighter ones.

[Neurochick]

3 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Good points.  I hadn't really thought about there being more mixed (and naturally lighter-skinned like people from South America, India and the Middle East) so it's somewhat fitting that they get more representation.  What's not fitting is that they get at the expense of darker women, never lighter ones.

Correct, but I think that is the reason you see more lighter skinned women now, because of more POC from other parts of the world who are lighter skinned.  Maybe a casting director feels that if he chooses a lighter skinned black woman, she'll appeal to more races of people. 

[jhlipton]

Just now, Neurochick said:

Correct, but I think that is the reason you see more lighter skinned women now, because of more POC from other parts of the world who are lighter skinned.  Maybe a casting director feels that if he chooses a lighter skinned black woman, she'll appeal to more races of people. 

In my opinion, it's because, that way they can have someone who fits their idea of "beauty" and still claim "diversity".  Either way, the very idea that a light-skinned woman would appeal to a wider audience is either accepting the subconscious racism of the viewers, or being subconsciously racist themselves.

[Neurochick]

31 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

In my opinion, it's because, that way they can have someone who fits their idea of "beauty" and still claim "diversity".  Either way, the very idea that a light-skinned woman would appeal to a wider audience is either accepting the subconscious racism of the viewers, or being subconsciously racist themselves.

Probably both.  I say that because I seem to have read an article about a model (maybe Claudia Mason?) who was told that because she didn't look like one race, she'd appeal to more races. 

[BoogieBurns]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I say that because I seem to have read an article about a model (maybe Claudia Mason?) who was told that because she didn't look like one race, she'd appeal to more races. 

It's a bit of a cop out though. Seeing any character of color makes it easier for me to relate to them. Mindy Kaling as Kelly Kapoor on The Office looks like an Indian girl. Not some melting pot of races meant to please all palettes. But, she was the one I related to, because she was the WOC. We don't have to look alike to see ourselves in each other. 

[Fable]

9 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I agree wholeheartedly with this.  And it continues -- most of the new shows have light-skinned female lead and the networks call it "diversity".  TPTB on Sleepy Hollow killed the last black female lead in a Science Fiction or Fantasy show, but steadfastly refuse to see the racism involved.

I don’t really see Sleepy Hollow as being racist.  Yes the show did get rid of some POC, but also replaced them with POC.  I think part of the problem was that the show runners had a vision that didn’t acknowledge what the audience enjoyed, which was Crane’s and Abbie’s relationship.  In the original story, Crane was determined to win over Katrina from Headless and I think the show runners may have thought they could pull that off, not realizing that Abbie and Crane were the real draw.  Whatever happened behind the scenes, I have no idea, but it is obvious that a lot of miscommunication was going on and wires were crossed, and the show unfortunately lost a great actor in Nicole Beharie and another in Orlando Jones.  

[DeLurker]

32 minutes ago, Fable said:

I don’t really see Sleepy Hollow as being racist.  Yes the show did get rid of some POC, but also replaced them with POC.  I think part of the problem was that the show runners had a vision that didn’t acknowledge what the audience enjoyed, which was Crane’s and Abbie’s relationship.  In the original story, Crane was determined to win over Katrina from Headless and I think the show runners may have thought they could pull that off, not realizing that Abbie and Crane were the real draw.  Whatever happened behind the scenes, I have no idea, but it is obvious that a lot of miscommunication was going on and wires were crossed, and the show unfortunately lost a great actor in Nicole Beharie and another in Orlando Jones.  

I believe Katrina was only supposed to be in the first ep or two and be dead-dead.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Fable said:

I don’t really see Sleepy Hollow as being racist.  Yes the show did get rid of some POC, but also replaced them with POC. 

The got rid of a dark woman (and a dark man) and are replacing her with a light woman (see all the above!).  Moreover, Abie was reduced from equal co-Witness to "helper" on the white man's journey.  In other words, they took a strong smart, sexy black woman (who could rings around the white women they brought on [Katrina, Zoe and Boobsy Ross] with just her eyes) and turned her into a Magical Negro.  That's not racist?

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The got rid of a dark woman (and a dark man) and are replacing her with a light woman (see all the above!).  Moreover, Abie was reduced from equal co-Witness to "helper" on the white man's journey.  In other words, they took a strong smart, sexy black woman (who could rings around the white women they brought on [Katrina, Zoe and Boobsy Ross] with just her eyes) and turned her into a Magical Negro.  That's not racist?

Yes to this post.  I believe the show was all kinds of racist.

[DeLurker]

12 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The got rid of a dark woman (and a dark man) and are replacing her with a light woman (see all the above!).  Moreover, Abie was reduced from equal co-Witness to "helper" on the white man's journey.  In other words, they took a strong smart, sexy black woman (who could rings around the white women they brought on [Katrina, Zoe and Boobsy Ross] with just her eyes) and turned her into a Magical Negro.  That's not racist?

Not to mention that Abbie and Frank Irving were awesome at making the audience willingly suspend belief to go along with a completely unbelievable world.  If the show had started out with the cast and story that they end up S3 with, I would never have watched.  As it was, I watched the pilot just to see how very bad this nutjob story was - I was expecting a train wreck and I watched for that very purpose.  Instead I got something that was taut, well acted, good doses of humor and completely bonkers (in a good way).

They could have replaced Katrina or Betsy Ross with a cardboard cutout of a Victoria Secret model and the acting would have been an improvement. 

And yes, I am still a bitter, bitter person over this.

[cynic]

How Syfy is Leading The Charge With Imagining Diverse Futures

“It’s my worldview. I’m an intensely non-political person, its when I tell a story, It has to come from my heart and it has to be something I believe there’s a kindness to it. There’s a lot of science fiction and there’s a lot of horror that comes from a place of darkness and it comes from a place of nihilism, and I’m just really frickin’ chipper. So, I can’t do that. I don’t want to watch that; I don’t want to make that, so often the people in my world have liberties, because I want to live in a world that grants those, and I don’t know why we wouldn’t. I don’t find that scary, I don’t find the idea of granting rights to the people around me as long as they don’t *** on me in the process, a scary thing, and so the worlds that I create are people who remind me of people that I work with, the people I grew up with and I went to school with, and it would feel fake to me to not have them around. So I don’t put them there for a purpose: I put them there because they’ve always been there, and it would feel like I was editing if I didn’t have them.” - Killjoys’ creator Michelle Lovretta

[Fable]

I love Abbie and Frank, and I think the show made a huge mistake in getting rid of them.  I thought the show runners thought they were being clever in bringing in Crane's family because of the source material, but they obviously didn't realize that Abbie and Crane were the real draw to the show.  

I apologize, I wasn't trying to be insensitive.  I just thought there might be another point of view rather than a racist agenda.  However, now that Betsy and Zoe are brought up, it is a hard point to argue against.  .    

Edited June 19, 2016 by Fable

[jhlipton]

cynic, Z Nation is returning to SyFy in the fall and with it the smart, strong and sexy Lt. Roberta Warren.  SyFy knows she's the lead and I sincerely doubt they will reduce her in any way.

Say what you will about Asylum (the folks behind the Sharknado films) but they make the best zombie show around!

[DearEvette]

I really enjoyed that article on SyFy.  I know female representation in Science Fiction is relatively low compared to male representation, but I just can't get excited about white women in lead roles because I have never seen a dearth of them anywhere else so their lack of leadership representation in SF just doesn't translate well for me.

So I will gravitate toward shows that skew toward WOC representation.  I admit I started watching Killjoys solely for Dutch -- because dude, I check out at least one episode of anything that features a WOC especially a black woman in a prominent role -- and have come to really enjoy the sheer fun/crazy space opera aspect of it and am looking forward to S2 so much. 

I didn't even know about Dominique Tipper as Naomi Nagata in The Expanse.  I checked it out because I am a fan of Shohreh Aghdashloo but was extremely pleasantly surprised by how awesome the Naomi character is.  Also i just completely jones over the sheer diversity of the show -- all sorts of brown folk and WOC in every area of the narrative. 

I wasn't able to get into Dark Matter because that one character (youngish girl with the purple hair) in every promo just annoyed the ever loving heck out of me, but I caught a couple episodes late in the season and got sucked into it and have seen the S2 promos they've added Melanie Liburd as a main character.  So I plan to go back and watch the early eps and get caught up and add it to my rotation.

It helps that I am a total blerd, so this is so much win for me!

[cynic]

I love The Expanse. It's such a great show with a rich, diverse world. As a blerd myself, I was so excited to realize how important a character Naomi is. She's not filler or a sidekick. Plus,

Spoiler

it looks like she will be in an OTP with the "hero", which is still unusual for a black female, especially one who doesn't conform to eurocentric standards of beauty.

I'm also impressed that SyFy didn't have her straighten her hair or even have her make it look more like the loose coils that are more accepted in natural hair styles. I think Hannah John-Kamen, who plays Dutch (who I also love), probably has a bit easier of a time getting cast with her blue eyes and more ambiguous look. Killjoys is such a fun show too. With these and 12 Monkeys (which isn't racially diverse, but has wonderful, well-developed female characters), I've been loving SyFy lately.

I'm still on the fence with Dark Matter though. Space shows are normally my thing and I like the diversity it has, but the Asian male character persona and back story is full of stereotypes. Also, I just don't find it as good as The Expanse or as fun as Killjoys. It's just kinda there. Plus, I can't stand Zoie Palmer. I'm hoping season two gives me more of a reason to watch or I might give up on it.

13 hours ago, jhlipton said:

cynic, Z Nation is returning to SyFy in the fall and with it the smart, strong and sexy Lt. Roberta Warren.  SyFy knows she's the lead and I sincerely doubt they will reduce her in any way.

I'm not a big fan of zombies (I tolerate them on WD, because I love the characters), but so many people have recommended this show to me lately, I might have to give it a try.

Edited June 19, 2016 by cynic

[xaxat]

I'm still pissed at the way Syfy killed off the entire McCawley family (Native Americans) on Defiance. But I do like their new slate of shows.

I also like Game of Thrones, and think it is very good television. But the whole Meereen plot is bullshit. All of the brown people are just plot devices. The writers have given up an pretense of it being an emancipation story and they have all been reduced to cannon fodder for Dany's army.

[jhlipton]

cynic, Z Nation is such a great blend of action, suspense and totally off-the-wall humor.  They did an episode with Native Americans (which can go so very wrong in so many ways) but I felt it honored the traditions and the current state of NAs.

I know zombies are way overdone but try to make room for this one.

I agree with you all about The Expanse.   GREAT world-building and characterization.

I'll make you a deal -- I'll check out Killjoys if you check out Z Nation!

[jhlipton]

7 minutes ago, xaxat said:

I'm still pissed at the way Syfy killed off the entire McCawley family (Native Americans) on Defiance. But I do like their new slate of shows.

I loved Defiance (save for the protagonist, who I thought was a bullying prick) but it was not great for ANY POC.  The new slate of shows are much better.

sorry for the double post.

[LydiaMoon1]

Quote

I can't think of anything analogous in Caucasian culture. Is there?

“Blondes have more fun.”  “Gentlemen prefer blondes”.  There is a reason blonde is the perennial bestselling shade of women’s hair dyes.  

[cynic]

The preference for blondes is comparable in some ways, but I don't think brunettes suffer the stigma that darker-skinned black females do. Plus, you don't necessarily have to be a natural blonde to obtain the benefits and dye is an accepted and easy process. Trying to get lighter skin is a generally harmful and derided practice. Since hair color is so easily changed, I don't think it has the same psychological impact as skin color. 

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

cynic, Z Nation is such a great blend of action, suspense and totally off-the-wall humor.  They did an episode with Native Americans (which can go so very wrong in so many ways) but I felt it honored the traditions and the current state of NAs.

I know zombies are way overdone but try to make room for this one.

I agree with you all about The Expanse.   GREAT world-building and characterization.

I'll make you a deal -- I'll check out Killjoys if you check out Z Nation!

Heh, I'll check if the first season is available on OnDemand or any of my streaming services. I don't want to oversell Killjoys. It's not on par with something like The Expanse, but it's a fun popcorn show.

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I loved Defiance (save for the protagonist, who I thought was a bullying prick) but it was not great for ANY POC.  The new slate of shows are much better.

sorry for the double post.

I really wanted to like Defiance, but the racial stuff was a little much for me.  The highest and most refined social class were the super pale people. They were intelligent and beautiful. The bronzey looking ones were tribal and in tune with nature. Then, when I realized they were going to introduce other races that were generally used for servants or hard labor and they were more animalistic, that was a big nope for me. Hard no. Granted, they might have swerved and done something unexpected with it, but no.

[LydiaMoon1]

Quote

The preference for blondes is comparable in some ways, but I don't think brunettes suffer the stigma that darker-skinned black females do.

I didn't mean to suggest that brunettes suffer from colorism in the same way that darker-skinned black women do.  The question was, do caucasians have anything analogous to colorism? As you said, the preference for blondes is comparable is some ways.  It is, therefore, analogous.

Edited June 20, 2016 by LydiaMoon1

[Rick Kitchen]

There's also the (apparently) real discrimination against "gingers" (who used to be called redheads).

[LydiaMoon1]

Quote

There's also the (apparently) real discrimination against "gingers" (who used to be called redheads).There's also the (apparently) real discrimination against "gingers" (who used to be called redheads).

I've only noticed ginger jokes on tv and in movies in recent years.  I just figured comedy writers were running out of people to make fun of.  Is ginger discrimination really a thing?

[Bastet]

Quote

Is ginger discrimination really a thing?

It's much more prevalent in the UK.  But I vaguely remember stories of harassment of "gingers" in the US, and I also remember reading that What Would You Do? did a segment on it in response to a kid's letter (I just did a quick search to confirm that).

[FormerMod-a1]

Then there's the whole "red headed stepchild" slam, and apparently trope.

[atomationage]

You can read forums here complaining about an actor being "orange" when that's mostly his natural appearance, although some turn orange from spray tans.   One actress was nicknamed Orangena for many years.   I think on the whole gingers are very "in" right now.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by atomationage

[callie lee 29]

While certainly not comparable to the stigma that darker skinned women deal with, there is a tendency to comment on when one is too pale. I'm thinking of the name calling/comments along the lines of "Casper" "so pale I can see though you", "you're blinding me" (the idea being that o0ne is so white the sun bounces off), "see-through", "pasty", "so white your like milk".  And then there' is the suggestions of getting a "healthy tan" because one looks sick because they're too pale or they'd look so much better with a little color.

Again, not necessarily comparable, but the idea is the same, that somehow if you are too dark or too light, it's somehow bad, instead of just realizing and embracing that beauty isn't dependent on a "right" skin color.

[jhlipton]

On 6/20/2016 at 10:39 AM, cynic said:

I really wanted to like Defiance, but the racial stuff was a little much for me.  The highest and most refined social class were the super pale people. They were intelligent and beautiful. The bronzey looking ones were tribal and in tune with nature. Then, when I realized they were going to introduce other races that were generally used for servants or hard labor and they were more animalistic, that was a big nope for me. Hard no. Granted, they might have swerved and done something unexpected with it, but no.

One of the disadvantages of white privilege is that I often miss things like that.  While it significantly lessens mu enjoyment of the show, I think it's important to know.  Sincerely, thank you.

[kili]

Quote

I've only noticed ginger jokes on tv and in movies in recent years.  I just figured comedy writers were running out of people to make fun of.  Is ginger discrimination really a thing?

A big plot point of "Anne of Green Gables" (set in the 1800s) is that she is a red head which is generally considered a bad thing. I was confused about that when I was a kid because I've never heard that, but apparently it is a more prevalent idea in the UK (where kids have actually taken "Kick a Ginger Day" seriously and hurt red-headed children).  I also remember when the Harry Potter movies ended and experts were speculating on the futures of the various actors. An article I read said that Rupert Grint would have the hardest time of it partly because, apparently, red heads generally only get cast when the role calls for a red head (especially, the darker the red). Of course, there are exceptions like Robert Redford.

IDK. I like red hair.