S05.E11: Check-Up With Dr. Drew, Part 1

[NikSac]

I am trying to understand how it is Farrah is somehow ruining the integrity of the show while Maci is not. Then, there is Jenelle, Nathan, Amber, Matt, and Kail who have all committed domestic violence,  and Jenelle has been abusive to her own child on this show. On Teen Mom 2 we will soon see Leah being a drug addict and being abusive to her child while in the SUV.

 

MTV needs to get off their high horse with their claim that their show is promoting using protection during sex and safe sex in general. It never has been, never will.

 

Don't forget, depending on your definition, Maci has also been abusive to her child on the show.

 

I completely agree about MTV and their whole high horse and claiming to be the ones to reduce teen pregnancy by 30% or whatever it was they claimed. Please. I will say that maybe, possibly, the original 16&P episodes were educational and possibly even the first year of the various Teen Mom shows, but after that, no way. At least those early shows made it look like yes, it might in fact be difficult to have and raise a child.

[Cosmocrush]

 

I completely agree about MTV and their whole high horse and claiming to be the ones to reduce teen pregnancy by 30% or whatever it was they claimed. Please. I will say that maybe, possibly, the original 16&P episodes were educational and possibly even the first year of the various Teen Mom shows, but after that, no way. At least those early shows made it look like yes, it might in fact be difficult to have and raise a child.

Agreed.  I really do think the the original 16 & Pregnant and S1 Teen Mom were cautionary tales - especially Macy's story [ she watched her friends go away to school, she was in love with a guy who didn't love her, etc.]   I watched those shows with my niece just for that reason.   When I was in high school I had the benefit of watching a popular girl in my circle deal with a teen pregnancy and it really made an impact with me about always always using birth control no matter what.  I felt like this show might serve the same purpose for other high school girls.  

 

Then it morphed into some sort of soap opera/reality show drama - sometimes interesting, sometimes fascinating but by the time Teen Mom2 arrived I thought the franchise was getting out of control.   The show was more snark material than cautionary and the money/celebrity  these girls were getting from the show cancelled any benefit other than entertainment.   

 

I think the MTV money is a tricky issue since it obviously distorts any message of hardships facing almost all other teen moms.  Still, this show was never supposed to be public service announcement (no matter how much MTV likes to think of it that way) and if they were going to be making tons of money off these girls year after year,  then they better damn well pay them well - something they hadn't done before filming S1.  After that though,  it's just another show about reality show celebrities and the drama surrounding their lives and MTV should stop trying to sell it as some sort of deterrent to unprotected sex.  

[poeticlicensed]

Agreed.  I really do think the the original 16 & Pregnant and S1 Teen Mom were cautionary tales - especially Macy's story [ she watched her friends go away to school, she was in love with a guy who didn't love her, etc.]   I watched those shows with my niece just for that reason.   When I was in high school I had the benefit of watching a popular girl in my circle deal with a teen pregnancy and it really made an impact with me about always always using birth control no matter what.  I felt like this show might serve the same purpose for other high school girls.  

 

Then it morphed into some sort of soap opera/reality show drama - sometimes interesting, sometimes fascinating but by the time Teen Mom2 arrived I thought the franchise was getting out of control.   The show was more snark material than cautionary and the money/celebrity  these girls were getting from the show cancelled any benefit other than entertainment.   

 

I think the MTV money is a tricky issue since it obviously distorts any message of hardships facing almost all other teen moms.  Still, this show was never supposed to be public service announcement (no matter how much MTV likes to think of it that way) and if they were going to be making tons of money off these girls year after year,  then they better damn well pay them well - something they hadn't done before filming S1.  After that though,  it's just another show about reality show celebrities and the drama surrounding their lives and MTV should stop trying to sell it as some sort of deterrent to unprotected sex.  

I'm sure the research will bear out that teen pregnancy has been on the decline for years, and that trend started way before TM. I would love to challenge Sad Panda, the authority on all things medical to cite me one study that links TM with the decline in teen pregnancy in the US. 

 

This show is no more about teens having  and raising babies than a cat video on the Internet. It's not about raising kids, it's about the baby mama and baby daddy drama. Its about failed relationships and hurt feelings and drugs and rehab and bullshit. Just listen to a TM reunion, season whatever, series whatever. The discussion is all about Gary and Amber's relationship, now Matt and Amber and Gary and Kristen. For Maci, it's only been about Rhine. For Farrah it's been about her dysfunctional family and looking for a bf, not about Sophia. The kids are just a novelty.

 

As far as Farrah tarnishing the TM brand and being bad for  the kids to be associated with, well, Bintlee has witnessed his parents shit talking and fighting his whole damn life. Does Maci not think that has an effect on him? And Leah just last week got to hear Gary shit talk Amber. I love how all these people scream into their damn phones to each other with their kids in earshot, or Maci's favorite thing to do, which is pick a fight when they do a kid exchange. Believe me, I'm not defending anyone here. And it doesn't help that they all seem to move constantly. Good god, talk about zero stability for the kids. Maci, Amber and Farrah with their revolving door of boyfriends.  They have all done their level best to undermine the TM name, with their BS on display on TV and on social media. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by poeticlicensed

[Elizabeth9]

I did agree with Panda on one point: sometimes young moms turn to the sex industry to support themselves. This is a possible storyline when dealing with very young moms, who often have limited education and are responsible for supporting a household before they are even 20 years old. It's not a crime and it's not (IMO) a big deal. It's just another story to tell.

Like Ryan has never watched a porn. IMO, he's the last person who needs to be judging anyone on any show.

Gary being the "other man" still astounds me. I can't imagine sneaking around and destroying a marriage (with a child involved)...for Gare Bear. I wish Drew would have laid into both of them a bit for that one. I just want to know WHY KRISTINA?!?

Maci just needs to admit that she wants to be a stay at home mom and wife and be done with it. She should also find a guy who wants this type of arrangement...Instead of an "oops now you have to marry me" situation.

Is Farrah on next week? Dr Drew said he is talking to TC but never mentioned Farrah in the limited previews that are on iTunes. I hope so! This show is so boring without Farrah!!! I want her and Simon Saran Wrap to be on stage together with Dr Drew.

[Tatum]

 

Like Ryan has never watched a porn. IMO, he's the last person who needs to be judging anyone on any show.

 

I know. If you want to try and claim that your stance against Farrah is due to her involvement in an industry that exploits and undermines women and that the porn industry promotes degradation against women and your stance is merely political, then you need to recognize that Farrah (and all other "on screen talent") is one small cog in the wheel of the industry, and that the real harm is being done by those who produce, distribute, sell and -most importantly -BUY or WATCH porn. There would be no porn industry if there was no demand for it. You can't just pick and choose who to blame for the presence of porn based on who is involved that you don't happen to like.

 

If MTV is going to try and claim that they are anti-porn and that they are only singling out Farrah because she's the only one involved that they know of, that's a bunch of bullshit as I'm sure every one of their reality participants has watched it, or bought it, not to mention their viewers. And it's a slippery slope from there if all the sudden MTV is going to play the morality police on a network that has been accused of promoting women as sex objects for over THREE DECADES.

 

I'm just beyond disgusted that Farrah's porn past was even brought up as an issue. I don't blame Maci and the others so much- they're immature and not known to be critical thinkers capable of looking at the big picture. But a big network like MTV should know better, and Dr. Drew should as well.

[gunderda]

oh ryan... too bad he isn't a little more outgoing.  Sometimes what he says is the best part. 

Kudos to him for saying that he signed a contract and he was going to stick with it.  He might be an ass to all involve but gosh darn it - he will abide by his contract! lol

 

 

I seriously do not get all the Maci hate for her having another baby.  She's an adult, in a stable relationship and currently has an income (and a pretty good one at that).  She did not trick taylor into marrying her.  The dude MOVED to be with her.  They bought a house together.  Maybe they won't last.... they won't be the only ones in the world with a failed relationship and kids to show for it.  She can still do gigs on what it was like to be a teen mom.  Just because she's having another baby as an adult does not erase her history of what it was like to be a teen mom. 

 

I do think she needs to be a little more "real" and not make up a bunch of excuses for things (school/work), but it's whatever. 

 

I think sometimes they're told to talk about school and going back to school just for the appearance of younger minds watching the show. 

 

 

And I'm not defending Amber... but I really dislike how Gary uses custody of Leah against Amber.  She needs to get to the courts and get a visitation schedule setup ASAP. 

[ghoulina]

Someone in the audience was staring at her! OMG it's hard being famous, can't they leave her alone!

 

Has Amber ever considered that maybe people don't stare because she's "famous", but because of her tarantula eyelashes, Frito nails, and leopard print clothing? Just saying. 

 

I was doing housework and laundry while I was watching the show - did Dr. Drew call Amber out for missed child support payments & I missed it?

'Cause y'all know any guy who is behind on child support would have seen it brought up by Dr. Drew on the reunion show. What's good for the gander and all.....

 

Good call! I don't think he did. And yea, he is forever giving Cory and Jo crap, even though I'm pretty sure those dudes provide more than their fair share, and Leah and Kait just get manipulative and gamey about shit.

[poeticlicensed]

Has Amber ever considered that maybe people don't stare because she's "famous", but because of her tarantula eyelashes, Frito nails, and leopard print clothing? Just saying. 

 

 

 

 

Good call! I don't think he did. And yea, he is forever giving Cory and Jo crap, even though I'm pretty sure those dudes provide more than their fair share, and Leah and Kait just get manipulative and gamey about shit.

Probably in Panda's mind, only boys pay child support. Not moms!!

 

I really wish that MTV would require, as part of their contracts, that a percentage of the money that these fools make must be deposited into a trust for the children's future use, kind of like they do with child actors. I mean after all the kids are filmed and are "stars" just like their pathetic parents. That way when Leah or Bintlee or Sophia want to go to college or get a start in life, there might actually be something left for them. I would be surprised to hear that any of them have put away a significant amount for their kid's futures. It's better to buy a new car every year and move 5 times in 5 years and  get your nails done weekly. It seems like that is their priority. 

 

ETA: I just read an interesting study about professional football players and rates of bankruptcy after they leave the NFL. A stunning 20% declare bankruptcy, some right after they retire from playing. Part of the problem is that they don't think long term and realize that that big check is time limited, since most players only play for a handful of years. An economist recommended that folks like NFLPlayers and other who make a lot of money in a short period save and invest up 80% of what they make for the future. My guess is that none of theTM cast are saving anything close to that. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by poeticlicensed

[truelovekiss]

I don't know how this would work legally, but I have thought from the beginning that instead of just writing checks, MTV should have put the majority of the Teen Mom girl's payments towards modest housing (in good, safe areas, of course but not McMansions), safe, reliable childcare, college or trade school tuition, and grocery store and gas gift cards with the rest in trust funds for the kids. If they want spending money, they would have to get jobs. The girls and their kids would have everything they needed, and probably a lot of what they wanted. It would also give a much more accurate depiction of being a teen mom, because there would be less nail appointments and designer bags and clothes.

[Tatum]

I don't know how this would work legally, but I have thought from the beginning that instead of just writing checks, MTV should have put the majority of the Teen Mom girl's payments towards modest housing (in good, safe areas, of course but not McMansions), safe, reliable childcare, college or trade school tuition, and grocery store and gas gift cards with the rest in trust funds for the kids. If they want spending money, they would have to get jobs. The girls and their kids would have everything they needed, and probably a lot of what they wanted. It would also give a much more accurate depiction of being a teen mom, because there would be less nail appointments and designer bags and clothes.

 

Yeah, but even if they could somehow organize and enforce that (and you know no one in production is going to want to deal with the admin side of that) taking away that much financial autonomy from the girls greatly decreases their chances of signing on to do the show.

 

While in 10 years, they may wish the above plan had been in place, I don't think any of the girls would have considered subsidized college tuition and trust funds for their kids enough of an incentive for dealing with the hassle of being filmed.

 

The sad thing is, I think there are a few girls profiled on 16 and Pregnant who would have jumped at the chance for any kind of financial help and would have used it as a stepping stone, not as a long term income plan. TM really picked some lazy, unlikeable girls out of the lot they had from 16P.

[poeticlicensed]

The sad thing is, I think there are a few girls profiled on 16 and Pregnant who would have jumped at the chance for any kind of financial help and would have used it as a stepping stone, not as a long term income plan. TM really picked some lazy, unlikeable girls out of the lot they had from 16P.

 

I suspect they were chosen because at the time of 16&P, they had unique stories. C&T are the only parents who chose adoption, Farrah's baby daddy died, Maci was the good girl who had a chance for a happy ending with the baby daddy and appeared to be college bound. Not sure why they chose Amber. They probably wanted to cover the spectrum. It's pretty sad that for the most part, they have all ended up living the stereotype (no education, no job, more babies) . The exception is Farrah, but no one could have predicted what was going to happen with her. Just crazy

[TaxNerd]

I don't know how this would work legally, but I have thought from the beginning that instead of just writing checks, MTV should have put the majority of the Teen Mom girl's payments towards modest housing (in good, safe areas, of course but not McMansions), safe, reliable childcare, college or trade school tuition, and grocery store and gas gift cards with the rest in trust funds for the kids. If they want spending money, they would have to get jobs. The girls and their kids would have everything they needed, and probably a lot of what they wanted. It would also give a much more accurate depiction of being a teen mom, because there would be less nail appointments and designer bags and clothes.

I think legally it would work, but the girls would still need cash to pay income taxes on the above :)

[ava111]

But not inviting Farrah back was MTV's decision, not Maci's. Maci just went along with it, and obviously was the most angry when they decided to change course. Ironically, it was man-of-few-words Ryan who touched on the truth when he said he questioned MTV's decision to rehire Farrah and her body part molds when they pretend to be a show promoting sex responsibility. Exactly. And I can't believe I'm saying that about Ryan!

LOL Actually I think using Farrah's plastic molded body parts for sex is more responsible then having teenagers to have sex without protection resulting in oops babies and std.

[DoctorWhovian]

I have absolutely zero experience with custody and child support things, but I never understood why these people seem so hesitant to go through it the legal way, instead of trying to figure it out themselves. It protects everyone's interests. I can understand that they might feel like taking their ex to court would drive an even bigger wedge between them, but I think it solves more problems than it creates. Everything is documented and recorded, and it cuts out a lot of that he said she said crap. Plus, it gives the kids more stability to know that there are set times with both parents, instead of just getting to see mom/dad when the custodial parent hates them less.

 

Only thing I can think of is that it's expensive. If you go the court route, there's court fees and lawyers. And having worked on divorces, the ones with custody issues were the worst. They could easily take years, lots of back and forth, lots of bickering. And these are adults! Add in the fact that they're teens and argue about even dumber shit, I can't even imagine.

 

Now, if they wanted to be adults about it, and make it simpler (especially considering only Leah has to worry about divorce, unless I'm forgetting someone), they could do it all in mediation. I'd probably still retain counsel, but it is not required. A mediator in Florida where I'm certified can be a ~$200-300 an hour, but you can find someone for less (although that's not necessarily for the family court mediators, which I guess could be more, but I don't have the additional family court training so I don't know -- then again, for Florida, parties can agree to have anyone be a mediator if they want). Just sit down, hash it out, get it on paper, and file it with the court. Time sharing plan done. It would vary state to state what needs to happen, and this is assuming that all dad's are already on birth certificates, so there's no parentage issue. But my understanding of mediation nationwide is that parties can agree to a solution and have it be binding (different states probably have different rules, and I know Florida is more pro-mediation that other states, but, regardless, they could get this done in a few hours if they were adults about it).

[CaughtOnTape]

Call me crazy, but I think the show has a leg to stand on when it comes to the claims it makes about it's effect on teen pregnancy (sure they exaggerate, I'll give you that).  My roommate's kid is 15 and he routinely has other kids around all the time, any conversation I've ever heard about MTV includes how pathetic anyone is who is broadcast on it.  

I think the study stating that teen girls are finding teen pregnancy to be a glamorous life choice can be just as fixed as a study making the claim that pregnancies are 30% down because of the show.  

I could definitely find teen girls who watch the show and think Amber's life is glamorous or that Maci's life is enviable.  But then I'd have to look at the parents in that situation, not the show.  If someone is watching Ryan continually insult Maci, the way Amber and Gary constantly insult each other, and Farrah's ever present bitch face and thinking that's glamorous.....yeah, I'm lookin at the parents.  

Maci doesn't live in a mansion, from every shot I saw of that house she lived in before she moved it looked like a hovel she was living in.  She's not dating someone I would think teen girls would consider remotely cute (not considering the massive popularity of bands like One Direction and Justin Bieber).  She never goes anywhere or does anything and even her trips to NYC for reunions look boring.  How the hell does a teen look at that and think it's glamorous?  She's not clubbing, she doesn't have celebrity friends......

 

So I'm not going to put much stock in some "study" where people found a bunch of teen girls to answer that they found these girls glamorous.  I think that's making teen girls out to be morons who can't look at what they're watching and think to themselves, "Soooooooo not the life I want for myself *closes legs*." And I'm sorry but I think teen girls are smarter than that.  At least the ones I've been around sure as hell are.

[lexiexx]

They think it's glamorous because she can just up and decide to buy a four bedroom house. Drive an expensive jeep. Travel to do mtv interviews. Have stories about her on entertainment websites. Also Maci does goes places. She loves to party. The only way this show would be a cautionary tale is if they got no money. Then the teen girls watching would see what it's like to work for minimum wage, be on a wait list for housing from the government, get food stamps etc. instead of watching them discuss whether Maci is willing to put up another 5 grand for the house and seeing Amber go to Vegas. Or a real reality check like Amber getting arrested for not paying her child support Which would totally happen if Gary wasn't also getting mtv money. The emotional drama is the focus here. Take that mtv money away and they'd all have some big problems instead of worrying about Ryan's tone and whether there's a mancave in the new house.

Edited June 3, 2015 by lexiexx

[Shelby]

Clearly bimbo Christina thought the lifestyle was glamorous. 

 

She left her husband, shacked up with Gary and got knocked up by him.  I'm guessing she thought she'd be the next Teen Mom star (if terribly over-aged).

 

Dumbass.

[GreatKazu]

Just read those stupid tweets that the girls on this show get and you will clearly see there are stupid, ignorant teens who are fans of these girls.

It is mind-boggling that Jenelle gets so much "love" from teens and older girls and guys! They really believe she is sane. They praise her about her car her tattoos, her hair. Ugh!!!

Amber has a trust fund for Leah, but only because she was court-ordered to do so. I think MTV had to put aside $10k from her check and that is how the trust fund was set up. This happened back when she had court appearances for her drug, domestic violence and child abuse charges.

[missy jo]

Ryan looks like a drug addict. His skin is pale and has huge dark circles under his eyes.

 

 

He looked emaciated, too!

[kira28]

 

They think it's glamorous because she can just up and decide to buy a four bedroom house. Drive an expensive jeep. Travel to do mtv interviews. Have stories about her on entertainment websites. Also Maci does goes places. She loves to party. The only way this show would be a cautionary tale is if they got no money. Then the teen girls watching would see what it's like to work for minimum wage, be on a wait list for housing from the government, get food stamps etc. instead of watching them discuss whether Maci is willing to put up another 5 grand for the house and seeing Amber go to Vegas. Or a real reality check like Amber getting arrested for not paying her child support Which would totally happen if Gary wasn't also getting mtv money. The emotional drama is the focus here. Take that mtv money away and they'd all have some big problems instead of worrying about Ryan's tone and whether there's a mancave in the new house.

Yes!!! Dr Drew's claim that teen pregnancy has decreased 30% as a direct result of this show is laughable. Over half of the girls on TM and TM2 have had 2nd children. Amber, Farrah and Chelsea are the only ones that have not yet all three have had pregnancy scares. Hello! it's not all that difficult not to get knocked up!  I have two kids and they were planned and I got pregnant which each one about a month after I stopped taking the pill so obviously I had no trouble conceiving but I have NEVER in 15 years I had sex before that had a pregnancy scare.  The only ones to finish any type of schooling are Farrah (Associate's degree) and Chelsea (cosmetology license) and they have had 6-7 years to do something. Young girls see this show and in most cases it glamorizes teen pregnancy. Normal teen moms are either relying on welfare or working shitty minimum wage jobs to try to afford basic necessities. They don't have a bunch of spending money, they don't have new vehicles and nice houses, they don't get to be on magazine covers. I've heard stories of girls getting pregnant on purpose just in the hopes of being selected for 16& Pregnant so you can't tell me these shows have decreased teen pregnancy.   Adults with good jobs don't even buy new cars every year, make decisions to buy a house like its nothing more than a pair of shoes and run to Vegas on a whim. This show depicts parenthood as having few responsibilities. Teens see these girls (and guys) buy all this stuff without even having a job (besides the show) or they see Leah "working" ten hours a week at a tanning place which in reality would give her enough money to buy groceries for a week and that's it yet she gets her hair and nails done, buys new houses and cars and a horse for the girls. Amber just got out of prison yet can afford a nice house, multiple cars, trips to Vegas etc. It's not reality and makes having a kid at a young age look easy. 

[Elizabeth9]

Amber had a pregnancy scare on Season 2

[CaughtOnTape]

So having a house and nice cars is glamorous to teenagers?  A car maybe.  But I don't think teenagers dream of owning a house and being saddled with a kid.  I also think that saying teenagers aspire to be on the covers of tabloids marginalizes them.  I don't know any teenagers who idolize Kendall or Kiley Jenner or any of the other young ladies that are currently gracing tabloid covers.  

 

My point was that this show isn't harming the well being and psyche of innocent non-suspecting teenagers any more than the music they listen to or the books they read.  It all comes back to the parents.  If your teenage girl watches this show and starts spouting off about how glamorous their lives are, I would sure as hell hope you nip that shit in the bud real quick.  It's not up to society to raise your kid, it's up to you.  Had my mother ever seen me idolize someone like Kendall Jenner SHE would have handled that....not left it up to a TV show to do so. 

 

The idea in this country that a TV show or a band or a book influences the masses to abandon their common sense and decide that whatever they're watching, listening to or reading is reality and they should start shaping their lives as such is ridiculous and stupid.  The teenagers I know, while annoying little assholes sometimes, are some of the smartest most articulate well adjusted kids I've been around.  Just because a kid states they'd like to be famous when they're asked what they wanna be when they grow up doesn't mean there's no hope for society as a whole.  

[JAYJAY1979]

Ironic that such shows like this exist that discuss things that would have been considered taboo years and years ago. Sometimes I worry that we glorify and turn these women into celebrities.

http://www.chicagonow.com/confessions-coffeeholic/2015/06/the-group-teen-mom-golden-girls/

[Elizabeth9]

http://starcasm.net/archives/96735

Jennifer supposedly got pregnant to be on the show

[Lesia]

This is totally shallow, but I loved Amber's shoes. shhh....

[GreatKazu]

 

I don't know any teenagers...

Just because you don't know of any teenagers who don't idolize or don't look up to these girls or don't find their lifestyle appealing, doesn't mean they don't exist. Believe me, they exist. It doesn't take much to read their own words on social media. When a twitter page gets linked here, the comments are there.  I don't personally know any serial murders, rapists, or millionaires, but I know they are out there.

 

I mentioned before having a relative (by marriage) who was a teen mom and, just like the statistics show, she had a second baby two years later. She doesn't understand why Catelynn and Tyler gave up Carly. My jaw dropped. I heard her rattle off the fact that they received money from MTV and how they could have taken care of her with that. It was mind-boggling. Forget the fact Cate & Tyler had no job skills, had not finished school, and were living around people who were abusive and drug addicts. Her response to me? "My parents are alcoholics, but we still had a home and I am not an alcoholic." Oy vey.  She is now in her early 20s. She talked about how Cate and Tyler have a house now and they can take care of their baby with the money they make from MTV. Mind you, she says all this while living under the roof of her parents. Of course the "glamour" of having a house is going to look good to someone who doesn't have one for her own kids.

 

That is just one example. I am not at all a Tweeter, but I do know how to read, and from what I read of the people who post on Twitter, they really are demented. Some have posted how they wish they could be independent like (insert name of one of the cast members). They happen to mention they had a baby a few years before and they admire everything they do!!!  They happen to mention they have a kid and live with their parent or grandparent and wish they could get away and be like Amber, Maci or Jenelle and just live in their own home. WTF? So many of them talk crap about Barb and praise Jenelle for being a great mom!! What a bunch of numbskulls. It makes me wonder what they consider a bad mom.

 

They also don't realize the editing and how that plays a part in how things look. From TM2, many people will never knew that Kailyn hit Joe when she got that phony restraining order on him. Kailyn was praised by so many people for "doing the right thing". If MTV doesn't show it, it didn't happen.

 

I believe MTV needs to put a disclaimer or at be more forthright with what these girls are getting paid and at least be more informative with what has been said or shown on the show. When Gary mentioned Amber had not paid support, there should be a follow-up to that. How about putting something on screen: "Gary claims Amber has not paid support. Amber has only paid three times since being out of prison." Removing the fourth wall should mean removing all that is connected with this show. We have the benefit of having information from those who Google and find information to share with us. Not everyone takes the time or bothers to look more into the show than what is shown.

Edited June 4, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Elizabeth9]

Jenelle and Leah, in particular, seem to have a legion of young lookig defenders on social media. The way these girls talk, it's safe to say they look up to them and think they're great- basically believe all their BS stories.

[GreatKazu]

 

Maci doesn't live in a mansion, from every shot I saw of that house she lived in before she moved it looked like a hovel she was living in.

You are aware that this is the second house that Maci has purchased. And, if I recall correctly, didn't she also purchase one with Kyle #1? I seem to remember us discussing what was going to happen when they split up because we knew they wouldn't last.

 

 

She did not trick taylor into marrying her.  The dude MOVED to be with her.

LOL Taylor didn't marry her. Hell, he hasn't bothered to get engaged to her. Yes he moved to be with her, and then a month later she was pregnant. We shall see what happens with that relationship.

[Workslame]

I have absolutely zero experience with custody and child support things, but I never understood why these people seem so hesitant to go through it the legal way, instead of trying to figure it out themselves. It protects everyone's interests. I can understand that they might feel like taking their ex to court would drive an even bigger wedge between them, but I think it solves more problems than it creates. Everything is documented and recorded, and it cuts out a lot of that he said she said crap. Plus, it gives the kids more stability to know that there are set times with both parents, instead of just getting to see mom/dad when the custodial parent hates them less.

 

This bothers me to no end!  I have a friend trying to get a divorce through her sister's cousin's friend who is a paralegal to save money or whatever and I want to punch her in the face. I have tried to explain to her several times that they have too much involved and they are barely speaking to be able to google their way through a divorce. It's better to spend money now then to be fucked over for the next however many years (she's the legal breadwinner, he's doing some shady stuff under the table) because you wanted to be cheap now. I just don't get it! 

[GreatKazu]

 

I never understood why these people seem so hesitant to go through it the legal way, instead of trying to figure it out themselves. It protects everyone's interests.

Amber has to know that she won't get custody. She, like Gary, loves to push buttons and act like she is in control. They are both two peas in a pod. By saying it, she acts as if she has the upper hand. If she really watched herself on this show, she would know she has no leg to stand on. Gary has had his child in his care for five years. Regardless if it was Kristina for the last year or two, he was still there for Leah. Amber is the addict who is clearly not sober. That is documented.

 

I work in the courts. I work only part-time now in the criminal department (getting older), but I spent time in family court. From what I saw happen in the courts and going by similar cases like Amber and Gary, a judge would likely require Amber prove that she is following in a post-rehab program. It is not enough for her file for custody. She has to prove that she is fit to have visitation since this is all because she signed over her rights because of her addiction problems. Amber thinks because she is out of prison, her addiction is a thing of the past. Sorry. The courts don't see it that way.

[GreatKazu]

Ok, just found an article that mentions Kyle and Maci purchased a home and it cost $79k. It was a foreclosed, fixer-upper. I remember the scene now. They were out and about looking at homes. Maci kept telling Kyle they were wasting money on rent and besides, Bentley needed more room for his toys. Remember that line? It is almost identical to what she told Taylor this season. LOL: Oh, and another thing, the home was under Kyle's name because Maci had no credit:

 

http://www.wetpaint.com/2012-08-01-maci-and-kyle-buy-a-house-teen-mom-recap-of-season-5-episode-8-the-next-step/

 

So, this makes three houses now that Maci has acquired. Maybe Kyle bought her out?

Edited June 4, 2015 by GreatKazu

[CaughtOnTape]

Twitter never has and never will be where I look for any kind of evidence of how I should gauge society or an entire group of people (like teenagers) and I find it sad when people do use it as such.

It's like using Wikipedia as source material.

 

That being said, I'll end this here before a mod tells me to end it.

[GreatKazu]

I don't judge an entire group of young people by Twitter, so don't judge me for using it as a reference. It is not sad. I used that as an example because those are the posts that were posted on these forums many times when someone would link to them when referencing a particular subject. I was stunned to read many of the comments posted to the Twitter pages of some of these people. If anything, it highlighted the fact that many people (whatever their age groups is since we know Matt is also a Teen Mom fanatic and he is surely not a young person) are delusional when watching this show. I can't put the entire blame on MTV, but I do blame them for passing off this farce as some educational tool. They need to stop referencing it as such and just call it a reality show filled with people who earn six figures. 

 

Many viewers should be aware of many aspects of the filming of the show and how many things are left out for time-constraint reasons. In the end, these people, for whatever reason, really connect with these cast members in one way or another and a lot of the times, it is for the wrong reasons.

 

Having seen many kids enter the court system, it is also an eye-opener. Too many young girls who thought having a baby with some guy will get them that fairy-tale they believe in from the books they read and the movies they watched. A lot of those kids come from broken homes. There isn't always a parent to "nip it in the bud" sometimes. These young girls are in the courts because of child support/visitation/domestic violence issues. The reality is, most girls feel a baby is the answer to a lasting relationship.

Edited June 4, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Elizabeth9]

I'm not judging all teenagers by what those people wrote on FB or Twitter. All I'm saying is that clearly there are people who like them enough to defend them on social media.

[NikSac]

It is not enough for her file for custody. She has to prove that she is fit to have visitation since this is all because she signed over her rights because of her addiction problems. Amber thinks because she is out of prison, her addiction is a thing of the past. Sorry. The courts don't see it that way.

 

But, but, but... Dr. Drew said of COURSE she'll get custody back, she's the Mom!  </sarcasm>

[Elizabeth9]

Agree on Maci: as I've said before, just admit you want to be a stay at home mom and wife, and be done with it!

[GreatKazu]

Agree on Maci: as I've said before, just admit you want to be a stay at home mom and wife, and be done with it!

If she had been honest before, she would have lost those speaking engagement gigs. Maci is the lying liar who lies for a paycheck.

 

I also really resent that anyone here who has their say about Maci being dishonest and told various stories about her "unplanned" pregnancy, is being labeled as a "hater" of Maci. Since when is commenting on  someone who is obviously being dishonest, being hateful? My dad taught me that is speaking the truth. Hating Maci is not what it's about.

Edited June 4, 2015 by GreatKazu

[missy jo]

Dr Drew's claim that teen pregnancy has decreased 30% as a direct result of this show is laughable. Over half of the girls on TM and TM2 have had 2nd children.

 

 

I literally laughed out loud when he claimed that was due to the show; meanwhile half those girls are on their second kid already.

Edited June 5, 2015 by missy jo

[kira28]

I never understood why these people seem so hesitant to go through it the legal way, instead of trying to figure it out themselves. It protects everyone's interests.

 

 

In theory , having everything done legally should protect everyone's interests, it doesn't always work that way. I know many people who have gotten screwed over by trying to have things settled through the courts.  Gary has full custody of Leah (I believe this was done legally) so it is in his (and IMO Leah's) best interest to just keep things the way they are. IF Gary were to initiate a new custody agreement, a judge may very well just hand Leah over to Amber for half of the time instead of Gary having full custody.  My BIL is going thru a case where he had weekend visitation with his daughter but now has full custody because the mom left their 3 year old daughter with her boyfriend who did drugs and passed out and the girl wandered outside and ended up twenty minutes away from home where someone found her and reported it to the police who contacted child services. Turned out mom's boyfriend wasn't even allowed around children because he's a sex offender! The mother refused to break up with the boyfriend (who is now in prison) and my BIL has temporary full custody of his daughter. YET, the mother refused to take any court ordered drug tests and threw a fit about having to do so.. so the judge dismissed that requirement.  Looks like mom is going to get the girl back even though she refuses to work, she's still dating the druggie sex offender who is in prison and she has no where to live unless welfare pays for her housing. My BIL and sister both work, have their own home, no criminal records and love the little girl dearly. Yet a judge (male judge) is somehow impressed with the "mother of the year" and will probably award custody back to her.

 

In my own child support case for my two children, I brought everything my attorney asked me to bring (paystubs, receipts, medical bills etc) and I pay $1100 a month for full time child care (daycare center). The judge said she had never heard of daycare costing so much for two children (and this is full price for one, discount for the 2nd) and even though I had TWO years worth of receipts and bills showing how much I've paid and what the cost of daycare is, the judge laughed and said it was MY CHOICE to pay that much and it was ridiculous so she was only going to give me credit for paying $400 a month (to be figured into the child support formula) My attorney challenged this and the judge shot him down. So even though in order for me to work I have to come up with $1100 a month, my ex husband's child support was calculated as though daycare only costs $400 a month. And if anyone can find child care that is 50 hours a week at $400 a month please let me know.

 

So while it may be better to have something in writing, I can understand why Gary would not want to mess with what he already has in place. Now, Amber may want to go to court for more time with Leah but if she's not even paying child support I doubt she wants to waste her money to fight for her daughter.

 

My problem with Maci and her pregnancy story isn't that she's having another child. She seems to love Bentley and kids in general so good for her if she can afford it. But she's just so shady. From Taylor's reaction this was NOT a planned pregnancy. It was an oops but not to Maci. She knew exactly what she was doing. No way in hell did her doctor tell her she was unable to get pregnant and didn't need birth control. She totally planned this man-trap baby and Taylor is starting to act like Ryan did. He does NOT seem into Maci at all.

[GreatKazu]

Kira, I am really sorry for what you had to go through, most of all, sorry that you got a judge who did that to you. See now, this is the reality of some situations out there. This is real life. While these heiffers and jerks on these TM shows get to lay around and do nothing, all the while bitching about petty shit such as Amber being looked at in public or being upset because people are all up in her business even though she is on a tv show and in the public eye, people like you are being screwed over by the system and having to deal with an ex and attorneys fees without the benefit of a six figure income and a huge couch to just sit on all day long.

 

You also make a great point. The judge in your case used childcare costs as part of the formula to calculate child support. Instead, it benefited your ex, not you because the judge cut your costs in half. Too bad your income can't be increased at the same time. The courts are likely to give in to a parent's wants and needs. Even though I think Gary has a solid case, there might be that one judge who will want to give Amber that opportunity to show she is capable of having Leah for the weekends. Still, she hasn't paid child support and I hope that would figure into any sound-minded judge that if this person cannot pay child support, how will they support this child for every weekend that she is in their care? For every month Amber hasn't paid, arrears should be adding up.

 

I could see Amber fighting for visitation simply to reduce her child support.

 

One more thing, without the benefit of MTV earnings, not one of these people on this particular show would have the money to even hire an attorney.

Edited June 5, 2015 by GreatKazu

[LotusFlower]

I don't know how this would work legally, but I have thought from the beginning that instead of just writing checks, MTV should have put the majority of the Teen Mom girl's payments towards modest housing (in good, safe areas, of course but not McMansions), safe, reliable childcare, college or trade school tuition, and grocery store and gas gift cards with the rest in trust funds for the kids. If they want spending money, they would have to get jobs. The girls and their kids would have everything they needed, and probably a lot of what they wanted. It would also give a much more accurate depiction of being a teen mom, because there would be less nail appointments and designer bags and clothes.

 

I totally agree with you about the money/salaries giving a skewed depiction of being a teen mom, and I'm sure MTV does, too.  Case in point, when Dr. Drew asked Tyler if he was planning on proposing to Maci and when, and he replied: "when I get my next MTV check."  I wrote this earlier on the thread and I'll say it again - that one comment sums up everything that is wrong with this show.  But legally, there's no way they can pay the girls in the form of trust funds or tuition or any of the ways you mentioned.  I'm sure they'd be doing this if they could.  And I wonder if the the moms and/or other participants would even do the show without the paycheck.

[truelovekiss]

I totally agree with you about the money/salaries giving a skewed depiction of being a teen mom, and I'm sure MTV does, too. Case in point, when Dr. Drew asked Tyler if he was planning on proposing to Maci and when, and he replied: "when I get my next MTV check." I wrote this earlier on the thread and I'll say it again - that one comment sums up everything that is wrong with this show. But legally, there's no way they can pay the girls in the form of trust funds or tuition or any of the ways you mentioned. I'm sure they'd be doing this if they could. And I wonder if the the moms and/or other participants would even do the show without the paycheck.

I feel like some of them would have done the show with the hypothetical tuition/trust fund payment method. I definitely think Kailyn would have. She had nothing of her own, she was living in Eddie and Janet's basement and working like 3 jobs while trying to go to school. I'm not a huge fan of Kail (mostly because she's a raging bitch who can't make it through the day without belittling someone) but she was a hard worker who just needed a leg up. I also think Maci would have done it, because I do believe that she did want to go to school and grow up. I think her "fame" and money made her lazy, but I do think she had potential. I think that were on 16 and pregnant that would have done it, (or would have been on Teen Mom if asked) but I don't know who turned MTV down. One girl that comes to mind is Taylor Lumas, who had her baby at 14-15, and graduated high school on time with little help from her daughter's father. She has stayed out of the spotlight so I wouldn't be surprised if she wanted no part of MTV.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

I feel like some of them would have done the show with the hypothetical tuition/trust fund payment method. I definitely think Kailyn would have. She had nothing of her own, she was living in Eddie and Janet's basement and working like 3 jobs while trying to go to school. I'm not a huge fan of Kail (mostly because she's a raging bitch who can't make it through the day without belittling someone) but she was a hard worker who just needed a leg up. I also think Maci would have done it, because I do believe that she did want to go to school and grow up. I think her "fame" and money made her lazy, but I do think she had potential. I think that were on 16 and pregnant that would have done it, (or would have been on Teen Mom if asked) but I don't know who turned MTV down. One girl that comes to mind is Taylor Lumas, who had her baby at 14-15, and graduated high school on time with little help from her daughter's father. She has stayed out of the spotlight so I wouldn't be surprised if she wanted no part of MTV.

 

One that comes to mind from 16&P was Brooke. She was a tomboy that got pregnant and then married. She and her husband were trying to build an inexpensive barn to build and live in. She seemed pretty down to earth.

 

ETA: Changed to *inexpensive*

Edited June 6, 2015 by AmyFarrahFowler

[Elizabeth9]

http://theashleysrealityroundup.com/2014/04/07/16-and-pregnant-season-4-star-myranda-trevino-about-to-give-birth-to-second-child/

She is certainly not the first girl from ’16 and Pregnant’ to get pregnant again. There have been at least 18 (out of the 47 girls that have been featured on the show) that have either had second children or are currently pregnant again. This list includes Ebony Jackson, Jenelle Evans, Lori Wickelhaus, Leah Messer, Kail Lowry, Brooke Tarrant, Felicia Cooke, Jordan Ward, Jennifer Del Rio, Danielle Cunningham, Mackenzie Douthit, Sarah Roberts , Kristina Robinson, Jordan Howard , Whitney Purvis, Aubrey Wolters and Ashley Salazar. There have been other pregnancy rumors, but these are the only ones that resulted in an actual child and/or are confirmed to be pregnant right now.

[Mischievious]

All this talk about what the girls are paid and how it has impacted the show has me wondering -- what were they paid for being on 16 & Pregnant? I've never watched that show but am just curious to the difference between that and season one of Teen Mom.

[truelovekiss]

All this talk about what the girls are paid and how it has impacted the show has me wondering -- what were they paid for being on 16 & Pregnant? I've never watched that show but am just curious to the difference between that and season one of Teen Mom.

I have nothing to back this up, but I remember hearing from different sources it was between $2500 and $5000 for their one episode.

[Tatum]

The Ashley Reality reported that the girls get paid a one time fee of $5000 and nothing for doing any updates or reunion shows. After taxes it prob wasn't much.

[shady lane]

I hate to defend Maci, but I don't think her getting pregnant at 23 means she's unfit to talk to teens about avoiding pregnancy. A lot of women have planned pregnancies at that age. She's in a committed relationship and can afford the child. She basically admitted this kid was planned and the fact she's not married is really her own personal issue. That's why she initially made it seem like a "miracle baby" because she's self-conscious about having two baby daddies and no husband, even though she decided to do it this way.

Amber is really getting my last nerve. I can't believe Dr. drew actually went after Matt and her for their failures in recovery - good job for once. "We're HAPPY" is not a reasonable response when asked why you have this guy you barely know living with you, drinking together when you're recovering addicts, not having a relationship with his kids (which is surely worse no what he's moved away), and not letting you spend any time alone! Even worse was her line "we're not beating on each other" like that's the mark of a good relationship! We also saw the true Matt - Amber storms off in a huff, Bubba goes to comfort her, and Matt slides down the couch for solo camera and Dr. D time. Superman indeed.

BTW isn't it interesting that he spent so much time harassing Jenelle on Twitter and ended up with the girl from TM1 most similar to her?

[NikSac]

I hate to defend Maci, but I don't think her getting pregnant at 23 means she's unfit to talk to teens about avoiding pregnancy. A lot of women have planned pregnancies at that age. She's in a committed relationship and can afford the child. She basically admitted this kid was planned and the fact she's not married is really her own personal issue.

 

<snip>

Amber is really getting my last nerve. I can't believe Dr. drew actually went after Matt and her for their failures in recovery - good job for once. "We're HAPPY" is not a reasonable response when asked why you have this guy you barely know living with you, drinking together when you're recovering addicts, not having a relationship with his kids (which is surely worse no what he's moved away), and not letting you spend any time alone! Even worse was her line "we're not beating on each other" like that's the mark of a good relationship!

 

I'd probably agree with you on Maci if she was being honest about it.  As far as I can tell she wasn't admitting she was pregnant when she was doing those speaking engagements, and she stopped doing them when she started showing and couldn't hide it anymore. I also think she planned it but he didn't, which bothers me. I'd way rather see her talk about what it was like being a teen mom vs. what it's like now with a planned pregnancy and a more stable life.

 

Amber and Matt yeah, they just seem like a train wreck waiting to happen. I'd love to be wrong, but I sure don't see too many good signs.

[Tatum]

I hate to defend Maci, but I don't think her getting pregnant at 23 means she's unfit to talk to teens about avoiding pregnancy. A lot of women have planned pregnancies at that age. She's in a committed relationship and can afford the child. She basically admitted this kid was planned and the fact she's not married is really her own personal issue. That's why she initially made it seem like a "miracle baby" because she's self-conscious about having two baby daddies and no husband, even though she decided to do it this way.

?

I wouldn't have a problem with it if Maci didn't try to claim that Farrah's porn endeavors were harming her "message". Yes, Maci can say that her pregnancy was planned, even if the majority considers it ill advised, and therefore it isn't hypocritical of her to speak about unplanned pregnancies. That said, what's more incongruous to safe sex talks- a woman who's been involved in professional porn (where I assume the actors have certain testing and safety standards) and sex toy modeling, or a woman who has not finished her education, does not have stable income, and is unmarried and currently pregnant? Maci's argument against Farrah would be pretty thin even if she weren't pregnant in her situation- but the fact that she is makes it downright laughable.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Tatum