One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[andromeda331]

59 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Man, they LURRRVVVED Christopher.  It was ridiculous. 

But then they loved the whole Poor Widdle Rich Boy trope (Christopher, Logan) vs. the dumb ass local yokels trope (Luke, Dean).

Yes, they loved Christopher. It really was ridiculous given how Christopher or they had Christopher treat Lorelai and Rory, but especially Rory! Zero child support. Zero being a dad and trying to raise his daughter. He didn't keep in touch with her, he didn't come to her home where she lived for sixteen years. And almost all of his reasons for being around Rory was to use her either to get Lorelai or Sherry. Even in his first episode he shows up because he's all sad because Rory maybe his only kid, he claims to want to use the door Lorelai left open for her but then he doesn't. He leaves town and doesn't tell them when he moves or gives him his new number. He's not interested in being a dad again until he meets Sherry and she really wants to be a part. Suddenly he's showing up, he's calling his daughter all so Sherry can see. Also in his first episode he says nothing when his father insults his child. Not one word. Then after having sex with Lorelai thinks it was great. As stupid as that was at least Lorelai realizes how stupid it was (it would have been nice if she realized that before they slept together).  I'm not even sure he's even really in love with Lorelai. All he ever wants to talk about is the old days. Plus if he really was in love with her it probably wouldn't be to hard to end up with her. Grow up, get a job nearby, keep working, staying Rory's life, be a dad to her, Lorelai probably would be interested. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but.....Just watched the episode where Chris's dad died. I know a lot of people agree that Lorelai should have told Luke that she went over there that night. Told him right away. I'm of the opinion that she shouldn't have gone at all. It's unfortunate that Chris was hurting, but let someone else comfort him. I get that they had a past and a connection, and she understood his relationship with his father probably better than anyone else. But I think he lost the right to her comfort when he continued to bail on her over the years. She was in a serious relationship and I don't think it's cool to go spend the night drinking with your ex. Maybe if she had gone WITH Rory it would have been okay. But I don't think it was right that she went over there late at night like that. 

I do agree Lorelai shouldn't have gone over given how crappy he's treated her and Rory over the years. That whole scene with Richard and Emily at Friday Night Dinner is so weird. They tell them Straub died and their reaction. Straub was an asshole. Why are they asking if they need to send something and wondering if Christopher wants them to go? I really don't understand why that's their reaction? Why would they go? Straub hated them, Francine wasn't any better and Christopher really hasn't done anything to deserve to both dropping everything to show up at the funeral.  If anything Rory should have showed up an continued that conversation of early that episode of Christopher showing up talking about their crappy relationship and how its because of him. But I'm still not sure. He bailed on both of them for years. He's had chance after chance and he didn't care or blew it. So why now should Rory stop everything to comfort him? It would have made more sense if that was Rory's reaction. Of course in the end nothing comes from that. Christopher doesn't decide to be more involved in Rory's life. Instead his next move is to listen to Emily and try and get Lorelai back with the brilliant plan of showing up at the renewal drunk and acting like an ass. Swoon.

[junienmomo]

While fully supporting the right of Lorelai and any other individual to go where she wants, when she wants, and to tell or not tell anyone about it, those decisions have consequences. 

I thought she was in a relationship with a person who deserved the courtesy of being told, “I’m heading over to Christopher’s because his dad died. Rory’s probably there right now.”

Evidently she didn’t take that relationship as seriously as I did, LOL. Nota bene, I frequently felt that Lorelai wasn’t committed to the relationship in season five. 

And andromeda, I don’t think any Gilmore went to the funeral. But you’re right, it could have been excellent storytelling to see Straub’s relatives, like Rory’s great-grandfather, see her standing next to her father to support him.

[andromeda331]

41 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

While fully supporting the right of Lorelai and any other individual to go where she wants, when she wants, and to tell or not tell anyone about it, those decisions have consequences. 

I thought she was in a relationship with a person who deserved the courtesy of being told, “I’m heading over to Christopher’s because his dad died. Rory’s probably there right now.”

Evidently she didn’t take that relationship as seriously as I did, LOL. Nota bene, I frequently felt that Lorelai wasn’t committed to the relationship in season five. 

And andromeda, I don’t think any Gilmore went to the funeral. But you’re right, it could have been excellent storytelling to see Straub’s relatives, like Rory’s great-grandfather, see her standing next to her father to support him.

I agree Lorelai should have called Luke and said exactly that "I'm heading over to Christopher's because his dad died." She arrived after Rory so she had plenty of time to call and let him know. Its common courtesy but also nice to let your boyfriend or girlfriend know where your going to be so they don't wonder or more importantly worry.  Lorelai usually comes home after Friday Night Dinner, if she didn't and didn't call he's might start to worry. I really don't see why Luke would object to it either. He lost both of his parents. I think he'd understand Lorelai going over to comfort Christopher.

A miss opportunity in not meeting Straub's relatives. I wonder what their like.  What would it be like for Rory to meet them? What do they think about her? Anyone curious about a second cousin or cousin they never met (did they ever say that Christopher was an only child? I assumed he was but now I don't remember if they ever said so). Just because Straub and Francine were jerks to Rory didn't mean everyone was. What was Straub's father like? Why did he like Christopher enough to leave everything too? Was he the best out of the grandkids? Was he the only grandchild?  Did Straub have a crappy relationship with his father (my guess would be yes)? 

[stan4]

Why did Emily and Richard act so sad/concerned about Straub's death?

 

Well, I think they did like Chris and Francine.  And they were probably friends from long ago.

 

But more importantly, I think it is bc Emily and Richard are super about keeping up appearances.  Their behavior and treatment of other people is beyond deplorable, but I am sure they soothe themselves with the thought that they must be good people bc they murmur and tsk with concern at all the right times.

Edited June 26, 2018 by stan4

[ghoulina]

Yes, I'm sure they were more upset for Francine and Chris's sake than because of actually losing Straub. 

It's awful to lose a loved one, even if you don't get along. In fact, that can make it harder sometimes because there's now no chance of reconciliation. 

[marineg]

11 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

A miss opportunity in not meeting Straub's relatives. I wonder what their like.  What would it be like for Rory to meet them? What do they think about her? Anyone curious about a second cousin or cousin they never met (did they ever say that Christopher was an only child? I assumed he was but now I don't remember if they ever said so). Just because Straub and Francine were jerks to Rory didn't mean everyone was. What was Straub's father like? Why did he like Christopher enough to leave everything too? Was he the best out of the grandkids? Was he the only grandchild?  Did Straub have a crappy relationship with his father (my guess would be yes)? 

Again, that would imply ASP cared.

[readster]

16 minutes ago, marineg said:

Again, that would imply ASP cared.

Would have been really cool if we meet their family and find out they are super nice and supportive. Making you go: "So, what were Straube and Francine's excuses?

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not even sure he's even really in love with Lorelai. All he ever wants to talk about is the old days.

This reminds me of Rory and Dean 2.0.  Rory just loved how she used to love Dean.  Maybe Rory takes after Christopher a bit, also.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

This reminds me of Rory and Dean 2.0.  Rory just loved how she used to love Dean.  Maybe Rory takes after Christopher a bit, also.

I've always thought Rory was more Christopher than Lorelai. 

And I agree that Dean 2.0 was purely out of nostalgia. She was in her first year of college; everything was new and scary. Being with Dean again was comforting. And people often look at past relationships through rose colored glasses, especially when they just got out of a bad one. Jess broke her heart and suddenly Dean was that perfect boyfriend who treated her like gold (never mind the jealousy, paranoia, controlling behavior, yelling, etc.). 

[peacheslatour]

I just watched the one where they have the Lord of the Rings party. Green mac and cheese reminded me of the terrible mistake I made when my son was in pre school. It was Easter and it was his turn to bring treats. I made cup cakes and in the spirit of the holiday I put dyed green coconut "grass" with egg shaped jelly beans on top. Big mistake. And tell me they did not expect those children to sit through nine hours plus of movie. The clip they showed was from the third movie. I'm a huge LOTR geek and even I couldn't sit quietly through nearly ten hours of movie.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

This reminds me of Rory and Dean 2.0.  Rory just loved how she used to love Dean.  Maybe Rory takes after Christopher a bit, also.

 

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I've always thought Rory was more Christopher than Lorelai. 

And I agree that Dean 2.0 was purely out of nostalgia. She was in her first year of college; everything was new and scary. Being with Dean again was comforting. And people often look at past relationships through rose colored glasses, especially when they just got out of a bad one. Jess broke her heart and suddenly Dean was that perfect boyfriend who treated her like gold (never mind the jealousy, paranoia, controlling behavior, yelling, etc.). 

She really is when you think about it. Her going back to Dean the second time had nothing to do with her still being in love with him. It had all to do with her lackluster year of no boy chasing her.  She doesn't tell Logan she's dating anyone until the end of the Party's Over.  Christopher didn't bother to tell Lorelai about Sherry until after Rory's Debutante even though there was some flirting going on there. Her lack of drive and work ethic matches more closer to Christopher's as well as her career in the revival. He didn't get a steady job until season two. The only difference is Rory at least was good at school work and I assume had her trust fund to pay her expenses.  Despite having seen her mother work her way up and put herself through college none of that rubs off on Rory. His making Lorelai tell Rory that Sherry's pregnant and going back to her isn't that different from Rory decided to quit school and move in with her grandparents but having them tell her mother instead. If you think of how much  everyone coddles and treats Christopher it really isn't that different from how everyone treats and coddles Rory. She constantly gets let off the hook for mistakes she makes as does Christopher.    

[scarynikki12]

So Lorelai always let Chris off the hook because, on some level, a part of her recognized the similarities with Rory and didn’t want to hold her accountable either? I buy that 100% and am grateful that I now have an in character reason for that infuriating choice. It doesn’t work pre-series but does during the seven seasons. 

[stan4]

12 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

So Lorelai always let Chris off the hook because, on some level, a part of her recognized the similarities with Rory and didn’t want to hold her accountable either? I buy that 100% and am grateful that I now have an in character reason for that infuriating choice. It doesn’t work pre-series but does during the seven seasons. 

 I always likened it to this one ex  and a couple of friends I have had who were always ridiculously still attached to guys from the past who were pretty worthless overall,  but they brought back some memories of particularly significant milestone times of life.

 

 Or just kind of felt sorry for them and felt like they had to take care of them because of some weird nuturing underdog thing even though nobody else in the world liked these guys (usually bc they were pricks).

 

Chris was such an incompetent, doofy man-child, I can't imagine any woman taking him seriously or even sustaining sexual attraction to him long term.

[Anela]

On 6/24/2018 at 11:04 AM, marineg said:

The problem is that no one thought that what Rory did (ie steal a freaking boat) was that wrong. Yes, Lorelai was mad when she learned, but she was more worried about what caused it. Emily and Richard are the stereotypical rich parents who sweep everything under the rug so their kids won't have any problems when they become titans of industries at 23 (I'm looking at you Logan). Any person without the "power" and money of the Huntzbergers or Gilmores would never have gotten into Yale after being kicked out of several private school and pulling all the pranks they pulled, after stealing and/or sinking boats, going on trips whenever they wanted etc. There are never any consequences to their actions, which for sure happens in our world, but still, ASP seems to be a the kind of person who would hate that in real life, and instead of condemning that kind of behaviour, she rewards it. That's just weird and inconsistent with the whole independent-women-who-struggle-to-get-what-they-want-and-never-ask-for-a-handout thing she is TRYING to do.

Also, can we talk about the fact that, following her arrest, Rory has a record? She's on probation for a few years if I remember correctly. When you apply for a job, they ask if you have a record, or check it you do. Why was that never mentioned at the end of Season 7? Why did no one think that would be an issue? Why wasn't it an issue at any point?

Lorelai blamed Logan for the yacht, because her perfect daughter couldn't possibly make such a choice herself. 

I thought she had community service. I'm coming up on those episodes soon (another re-watch). 

14 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Not sure how unpopular this opinion is, but it seems to be a part of the GG canon that no other woman was ever good enough for the guys Lorelai or Rory rejected. Or maybe they were just incapable of a healthy relationship after they’d had a GG. 

Dean may have sort of been an exception, because he finally left Rory and in the revival was happily married. But she raked him over the coals more than once. LOL, there’s a guy who should write a self-help book: How to Survive a Gilmore 

Girl.

Well he had his issues, too. You could say that she survived Dean. He was obsessive, as was Max with Lorelai. Dean treated what's her name like crap. Lindsay. 

[Anela]

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, they loved Christopher. It really was ridiculous given how Christopher or they had Christopher treat Lorelai and Rory, but especially Rory! Zero child support. Zero being a dad and trying to raise his daughter. He didn't keep in touch with her, he didn't come to her home where she lived for sixteen years. And almost all of his reasons for being around Rory was to use her either to get Lorelai or Sherry. Even in his first episode he shows up because he's all sad because Rory maybe his only kid, he claims to want to use the door Lorelai left open for her but then he doesn't. He leaves town and doesn't tell them when he moves or gives him his new number. He's not interested in being a dad again until he meets Sherry and she really wants to be a part. Suddenly he's showing up, he's calling his daughter all so Sherry can see. Also in his first episode he says nothing when his father insults his child. Not one word. Then after having sex with Lorelai thinks it was great. As stupid as that was at least Lorelai realizes how stupid it was (it would have been nice if she realized that before they slept together).  I'm not even sure he's even really in love with Lorelai. All he ever wants to talk about is the old days. Plus if he really was in love with her it probably wouldn't be to hard to end up with her. Grow up, get a job nearby, keep working, staying Rory's life, be a dad to her, Lorelai probably would be interested. 

I hate it when people don't stand up for those they claim to love. 

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

This reminds me of Rory and Dean 2.0.  Rory just loved how she used to love Dean.  Maybe Rory takes after Christopher a bit, also.

I think they made that connection through scenes when Christopher comes to the house when Friday night dinner is happening, knowing that Lorelai will be there. He's yelling at her, accusing her of keeping Rory away from him, then Rory tells him to go and be someone else's dad. (yes! You tell him! but that was also so sad.) Rory then argues with Jess over his having a girlfriend, and Jess asks if she wrote to him at all, over the Summer, if she's still with Dean. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Anela

[readster]

12 hours ago, stan4 said:

 I always likened it to this one ex  and a couple of friends I have had who were always ridiculously still attached to guys from the past who were pretty worthless overall,  but they brought back some memories of particularly significant milestone times of life.

 

 Or just kind of felt sorry for them and felt like they had to take care of them because of some weird nuturing underdog thing even though nobody else in the world liked these guys (usually bc they were pricks).

 

Chris was such an incompetent, doofy man-child, I can't imagine any woman taking him seriously or even sustaining sexual attraction to him long term.

Same here, I even was romantically involved with a woman who just would not let her ex go. Her parents loved me, and even told her to get over the ex and I finally got tired of it. What happened a year later? He was dating someone and liked having all the attention of his ex, he ended up getting engaged and she felt like a moron. I also worked with someone who had a baby with her ex and he kept coming around, sweeping off her feet and barely staying involved with their kid. Got another woman pregnant 2 years later and did the same with her, but she wouldn't have it and kicked him to the curb and my former coworker got a clue and did the same. I remember even thinking these guys were like Chris and sure enough they were. There are so many people like that and for some strange reason they are giving so many excuses of "poor them" instead of: "Get the hell away, you are worthless". Even in the revival, Rory never told Chris officially off, she just heard his lame stupid excuses and that was it. It was closure it just was AS-P still going: "Yeah he's a prick, but we still love Chris." 

[steff13]

On 6/19/2018 at 2:00 PM, marineg said:

She was SO privileged and never did anything with it. Not even recognising it. She complained and pushed back whenever someone showed privilege but never thought one second about her own. 

I'm currently rewatching the time off from Yale episodes.  When Jess shows up and challenges Rory about why she dropped out it prompts her to consider her actions and she subsequently has a fight with Logan.  Logan was an ass to Jess, because he was upset about being made to start taking on his family responsibilities.  Rory yells at him about how she would love to have the opportunities he's had, but she can't see that she actually has more.  Yes, Logan's family has more money than Rory's, but he's right, he has one choice in life, or all his family support goes away. That's not the case for Rory; there's no indication that the Gilmores won't support her no matter what she does.  It's the same when she writes the online article criticizing all his rich friends.  Logan always acknowledges his privilege, but Rory is always the poor little rich girl.  

[readster]

Quote

Yes, Logan's family has more money than Rory's, but he's right, he has one choice in life, or all his family support goes away. That's not the case for Rory; there's no indication that the Gilmores won't support her no matter what she does.  It's the same when she writes the online article criticizing all his rich friends.  Logan always acknowledges his privilege, but Rory is always the poor little rich girl.  

Yep exactly. Even when Rory brought up that his parents were in the LADB and he says: "Yeah, but they still left it behind to be in the family business." Logan was either keep doing with what the family had done for years or go to the streets. With Rory, hell she could have ran her own home business with her trust fund in hand and still done things with high society and no one would have cared. Yet, she was: "poor me, my life sucks." 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, steff13 said:

I'm currently rewatching the time off from Yale episodes.  When Jess shows up and challenges Rory about why she dropped out it prompts her to consider her actions and she subsequently has a fight with Logan.  Logan was an ass to Jess, because he was upset about being made to start taking on his family responsibilities.  Rory yells at him about how she would love to have the opportunities he's had, but she can't see that she actually has more.  Yes, Logan's family has more money than Rory's, but he's right, he has one choice in life, or all his family support goes away. That's not the case for Rory; there's no indication that the Gilmores won't support her no matter what she does.  It's the same when she writes the online article criticizing all his rich friends.  Logan always acknowledges his privilege, but Rory is always the poor little rich girl.  

I always wished Rory would have explored that either then or later when Logan points it out to her in that article she wrote in season seven she is so far from the girl who grew up in a potting shed. She was ended up being very privilege. A trust fund, her grandparents paying for Yale, then her dad, two trips to Europe. When was the last time she had to stop and worry about money? She helped out at Andrew's bookstore helping out with inventory which ended up with her mother buying the huge stack of books she wanted. She got the editor of the newspaper handed to her and same with VP of Chilton. Her grandparents got her a lawyer and Emily  got her a job at the DAR. Is that who she wanted to be? There's nothing wrong with any of that but Rory acts like she's never had anything handed to her or been helped by her rich grandparents. 

[alonenotlonely]

I love this thread! I love this fandom. And I still love this exasperating but special show that has become way too huge a part of my life. :)

I'm extremely late to the UO party, but here's my meager contribution:

1. I think Rory and Jess are meant to be together. Jess said he felt that way the first time he saw her and SAME, Jess...same :) They have more than their share of issues, but I never stopped feeling their palpable chemistry and connection even when I wished I could have. And AYITL actually underscored for me that they're each other's "one." I know they had just a couple of scenes and that those scenes weren't even romantic in nature, but something about their rapport and how each still sees the potential best in the other even when they're at their worst just gets to me. Sometimes writers try to tell us that two people instinctively get each other and I'll fail to see it, but with Rory and Jess, I never DON'T see it. Like others have said, maybe part of what I'm seeing is Alexis and Milo's real life feelings seeping onto the screen, but I'm hopelessly devoted to these two no matter how much some of the writing makes me cringe.

 

2. I love Luke and Lorelai too, still and always. I have to confess that I'm a little confused about their arc in AYITL. While we're on the topic, I'm confused by a lot of the writing choices Amy made for then in seasons 5 and 6 as well, but that's a whole different rant! In AYITL, were we supposed to conclude that their rocky past had made them reluctant to honestly communicate for fear that their relationship would once again fall apart? If so, that explains why Luke reminding her that he's never going anywhere no matter what had resonance. Or was the point supposed to be that restless souls like Lorelai sometimes don't know that they've already found happiness and contentment right where they are until they open their eyes and let themselves see it? I feel like I know what they were trying to show with Emily and even Rory, but Lorelai's AYITL arc still leaves me a little muddled.

 

3. I despise Logan and that asinine Life and Death Brigade even when they were college kids and don't have the words to express how pitiful and irritating I find them as adults. As someone else said, I don't find them whimsical, charming and charismatic. I seriously think they're ridiculous to the point where I feel secondhand embarrassment whenever they're on screen. And even though it's not Logan's fault that he and his lifestyle bring out the most unlikable facets of Rory's character, the point remains that I can't stand her when she's around him, and this is coming from one of the dwindling few who still cares deeply about Rory overall. 

4.  It's true that Lorelai is often awful towards her parents and should be blamed for a lot of the problems in their relationships. But to me it's also true that some of us underestimate just how difficult it would be to have Emily as a mother. There were times when Lorelai was a lot more forgiving towards Emily than I would have been, though let's not delve into what that reveals about me!

5. I still love these characters despite my dislike for how they were often written later on. Rory, Lorelai, Luke, Emily, Jess, Richard - I love all the main ones except Logan. I'm just not that discerning when it comes to this show! Like someone else said, I will objectively acknowledge all that's flawed about these characters and the way their relationships are depicted while still loving them anyway. I am, like many of these characters, stubborn as hell. :)

 

Thank you to all of you who keep this show alive in our minds and hearts!

Edited June 27, 2018 by alonenotlonely

[marineg]

1 hour ago, steff13 said:

I'm currently rewatching the time off from Yale episodes.  When Jess shows up and challenges Rory about why she dropped out it prompts her to consider her actions and she subsequently has a fight with Logan.  Logan was an ass to Jess, because he was upset about being made to start taking on his family responsibilities.  Rory yells at him about how she would love to have the opportunities he's had, but she can't see that she actually has more.  Yes, Logan's family has more money than Rory's, but he's right, he has one choice in life, or all his family support goes away. That's not the case for Rory; there's no indication that the Gilmores won't support her no matter what she does.  It's the same when she writes the online article criticizing all his rich friends.  Logan always acknowledges his privilege, but Rory is always the poor little rich girl.  

27 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I always wished Rory would have explored that either then or later when Logan points it out to her in that article she wrote in season seven she is so far from the girl who grew up in a potting shed. She was ended up being very privilege. A trust fund, her grandparents paying for Yale, then her dad, two trips to Europe. When was the last time she had to stop and worry about money? She helped out at Andrew's bookstore helping out with inventory which ended up with her mother buying the huge stack of books she wanted. She got the editor of the newspaper handed to her and same with VP of Chilton. Her grandparents got her a lawyer and Emily  got her a job at the DAR. Is that who she wanted to be? There's nothing wrong with any of that but Rory acts like she's never had anything handed to her or been helped by her rich grandparents. 

You guys... Everything I believe. I love her, but I hate her too. She just needs to wake up and get a clue. The worse kind of privilege there is is not recognising you have it. And that's Rory. You can't choose in which family you will end up. Logan didn't choose the Huntzbergers and she didn't choose the Gilmores.

I'm not saying that Logan was right to go back to his Dad's company. I think he was smart in business, and could have built his own with his trust fund. Rory could have done the same. She was given a whole newspaper, and had a trust fund. She could have invested in new computers for the Stars Hollow Gazette. With a huge trust fun (or two since she had her great-grandmother's and her grandfather's) she could have spent $10,000-20,000 to bring that paper to the 21st century and make it a relevant one, at least in the neighbouring counties.

[steff13]

She had two trust funds, per the original series.  And, I would assume Richard left her a substantial inheritance when he passed away; he left however much for Luke to expand the diner, certainly he saw that his sweet baby angel granddaughter was taken care of.  Yet, in the revival, she claimed to be broke.   

[FictionLover]

4 hours ago, alonenotlonely said:

 

2. I love Luke and Lorelai too, still and always. I have to confess that I'm a little confused about their arc in AYITL. While we're on the topic, I'm confused by a lot of the writing choices Amy made for then in seasons 5 and 6 as well, but that's a whole different rant! In AYITL, were we supposed to conclude that their rocky past had made them reluctant to honestly communicate for fear that their relationship would once again fall apart? If so, that explains why Luke reminding her that he's never going anywhere no matter what had resonance. Or was the point supposed to be that restless souls like Lorelai sometimes don't know that they've already found happiness and contentment right where they are until they open their eyes and let themselves see it? I feel like I know what they were trying to show with Emily and even Rory, but Lorelai's AYITL arc still leaves me a little muddled.

I know, this was not clear at all. When Luke blamed Lorelai for making their lives seperate, it would have made more sense if she would have brought up how it started with April and her being afraid to try to blend as a family. Their story was very confusing and a huge disappointment for this fan.

[clack]

Christopher as a character had a lot of dramatic potential -- potential that went unrealized, alas.

Lorelai's great lost love who has spent the last dozen years or so traveling around the country on a motorcycle like a figure out of On the Road, now claiming to have matured and wanting to have an ongoing relationship with Rory and Lorelai.

Has he really matured enough? Will he and Dean bond over their shared love of motorcycles? How about Jess, another rebel without a cause? Jess would have dreamt of taking to the road with a cycle and a notebook, writing his grand opus as he did so. Would Jess romantize Chris? Would he and Chris ultimately clash?

And how about the contrast with Luke, who one might have left town to achieve athletic success but who now seems stuck living a safe, stable life. Would he envy Chris's life of adventure? Resent it? Both?

Would Luke feel inadequate in Lorelai's eyes, contrasting himself with Chris? Would Chris look at Luke and think, maybe I need to be more like him to regain Lorelai's love?

All these and many more dramatic possibilities went unexplored, but that was the case with so many GG relationships -- promising set ups disappointingly developed.

Edited June 30, 2018 by clack

[bracebridge]

100% agreed on Christopher’s unrealized potential, @clack. I really like his season 1-3 appearances because even though the backstory was muddled, he always brought great, cohesive drama into the episodes. The writers really dropped the ball on him on Season 5.

Quote

And how about the contrast with Luke, who one might have left town to achieve athletic success but who now seems stuck living a safe, stable life. Would he envy Chris's life of adventure? Resent it? Both?

^^^This. I would’ve killed to watch some Luke/Christopher interactions in the early seasons before Luke dated Lorelai. From what I gather, Luke doesn’t appear to like him even as early as season 1 - he knows he wasn’t around to help Lorelai raise Rory, and then deduces that he was the reason that Lorelai stood him up to paint to the diner (“Christopher Returns”). He throws what is... probably not a cinnamon stick in the chai latte that Christopher orders (“Presenting Lorelai Gilmore”). He seethes silently in the background while Christopher yells at Lorelai in the diner (“It Should’ve Been Lorelai”) and later comforts her when she herself tells him how Christopher broke her heart (“Lazy Hazy Crazy Days of Summer”) so I could understand Luke feeling protective of her, even from a platonic standpoint, because he doesn’t want to see her - or Rory - hurt again.  

Anyhow, I would’ve liked to see a scene between them - not quite as dramatic as the shouting match that took place at the vow renewal, but Luke always has an... underhanded way of showing he doesn’t like certain people - something as simple as telling him off for something minor, like using his cellphone at the diner, while the audience understands there is a double meaning to their conversation, for example. 

[andromeda331]

I hate Rory's attitude after she leaves the grandparents' house. It was airing today. Listening to her telling Lorelai how horrible it was there and she now knows what it was like for Lorelai. Ah, excuse me Rory? Tell me how it was so awful for you? Let's see they paid for your lawyer, all your expenses, let you live in the poolhouse and completely redecorate it for you, Emily got you a job because you claimed at the hearing you had to find a job (let's all laugh when Richard brings up the job later and says Rory would rather work for things. Good on Richard!), you came and went as you pleased. So how was that hard? Oh, wait towards the end your grandmother started laying down rules. Gee, its almost like it was her house. And again they were supporting you. The next episode the Friday Night's Alright for Fighting, her bitching Rory not caring about how her grandparents felt about learning Christopher was paying for Yale, not calling them and telling them herself, and not caring if she ever sees them again. "What's the worse that can happen we won't be speaking with them?" and her remark about "months on the calendar flying by". Again what did the grandparents do you to you Rory? Risk their relationship with their daughter to take your side and support you. I mean seriously she acts as if Richard and Emily did something horrible to her. I know Lorelai wouldn't but it would have been so nice if she pointed that out. I know instead she brings up the story about getting an invitation to the Christmas party after she left and points out that Rory loves her grandparents. But how can she not be sick of hearing her daughter go on like she was treated like crap or Richard and Emily did something to her when she knows they didn't. Does Lorelai even know the only reason Rory left was Emily started laying down rules?

[Anela]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I hate Rory's attitude after she leaves the grandparents' house. It was airing today. Listening to her telling Lorelai how horrible it was there and she now knows what it was like for Lorelai. Ah, excuse me Rory? Tell me how it was so awful for you? Let's see they paid for your lawyer, all your expenses, let you live in the poolhouse and completely redecorate it for you, Emily got you a job because you claimed at the hearing you had to find a job (let's all laugh when Richard brings up the job later and says Rory would rather work for things. Good on Richard!), you came and went as you pleased. So how was that hard? Oh, wait towards the end your grandmother started laying down rules. Gee, its almost like it was her house. And again they were supporting you. The next episode the Friday Night's Alright for Fighting, her bitching Rory not caring about how her grandparents felt about learning Christopher was paying for Yale, not calling them and telling them herself, and not caring if she ever sees them again. "What's the worse that can happen we won't be speaking with them?" and her remark about "months on the calendar flying by". Again what did the grandparents do you to you Rory? Risk their relationship with their daughter to take your side and support you. I mean seriously she acts as if Richard and Emily did something horrible to her. I know Lorelai wouldn't but it would have been so nice if she pointed that out. I know instead she brings up the story about getting an invitation to the Christmas party after she left and points out that Rory loves her grandparents. But how can she not be sick of hearing her daughter go on like she was treated like crap or Richard and Emily did something to her when she knows they didn't. Does Lorelai even know the only reason Rory left was Emily started laying down rules?

They were awful towards the end, but other than that, I agree with you. I listened to that one today, on netflix. 

It also struck me how Lorelai bent over backwards to apologize to them, and actually pointed out to Rory that she was being rude/thoughtless. 

I still hate the "Chris suddenly comes into millions" story. It's too convenient, and it bugs me in every TV show or book. Suddenly, they don't have to worry about money, just like that. The whole world is open to them via social connections, boyfriends, and rich parents and grandparents. Even Lorelai's money for the inn, came partly from Richard, with the money he gave her on her birthday, saying it was hers, but it was something he set up when she was born. Before that, she couldn't get a loan to get rid of termites. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Anela

[ghoulina]

I agree that Rory didn't have it that bad at the grandparents. Emily got a lot more controlling toward the end. But, in no way, do I think it was as bad as what Lorelai grew up with. I actually thought they were making a concerted effort to give her space and let her have freedom. She's just ungrateful. 

[Katy M]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 3:54 PM, steff13 said:

She had two trust funds, per the original series.  And, I would assume Richard left her a substantial inheritance when he passed away; he left however much for Luke to expand the diner, certainly he saw that his sweet baby angel granddaughter was taken care of.  Yet, in the revival, she claimed to be broke.   

If lottery winners can go bankrupt within 5 years, I'm sure Rory could manage to be broke.  

[Kohola3]

Just now, Katy M said:

If lottery winners can go bankrupt within 5 years, I'm sure Rory could manage to be broke.  

Especially jetting back and forth to London for a weekend quickie.

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So how was that hard?

She wasn't allowed to have sex with Logan under their roof.  When she wasn't paying rent and was basically a guest.  Oh, the horror.

[Anela]

They were treating her like a kid, going through her things, making up excuses to move her under the roof of the main house, so they could have more control over her. It wasn't anything close to seventeen years of that kind of thing, but I can see how it would cause division for a while. 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Anela

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Anela said:

They were awful towards the end, but other than that, I agree with you. I listened to that one today, on netflix. 

It also struck me how Lorelai bent over backwards to apologize to them, and actually pointed out to Rory that she was being rude/thoughtless. 

I still hate the "Chris suddenly comes into millions" story. It's too convenient, and it bugs me in every TV show or book. Suddenly, they don't have to worry about money, just like that. The whole world is open to them via social connections, boyfriends, and rich parents and grandparents. Even Lorelai's money for the inn, came partly from Richard, with the money he gave her on her birthday, saying it was hers, but it was something he set up when she was born. Before that, she couldn't get a loan to get rid of termites. 

 

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I agree that Rory didn't have it that bad at the grandparents. Emily got a lot more controlling toward the end. But, in no way, do I think it was as bad as what Lorelai grew up with. I actually thought they were making a concerted effort to give her space and let her have freedom. She's just ungrateful. 

 

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

She wasn't allowed to have sex with Logan under their roof.  When she wasn't paying rent and was basically a guest.  Oh, the horror.

Yes, towards the end she was but that was only because they found out Rory and Logan were having sex. Emily didn't start laying down rules until that point. Which Rory knew about because she explained to Logan why Emily was cold to him. But its still hard for me to mustered up any sympathy for Rory. Until that moment she got treated very well. She had all the freedom while they paid for everything.  She also could have decided after her birthday party to move in with Logan or Paris or get a job and move out. She chose to stay and lie to her grandmother about spending the nights at Paris's. Even as controlling as Emily was towards then she and Richard didn't deserve the horrible way Rory talked about them after she left.   

[marineg]

Let's be honest here. Rory claims to be this very mature person who can live on her own and manage her life without help from anyone. In the show, that was never proven.

She moved in with her grandparents when she could have easily gotten a job and an apartment, or moved in with Logan, or even stayed in her apartment with Paris*. She chose to move in the house where her mother became a teenage mother and ran away from when she was 17. She new what she was doing. She knew there would be rules. Simply because Richard and Emily made an effort in the first few months to let her have her life, independent from theirs, doesn't mean she just got a new set of grandparents.

Plus, if she was such a grown-up who could manage her life as she so often told everyone, she wouldn't have stolen a boat, she wouldn't have spoken to the pastor in that way, she would have had a conversation with her grandparents instead of trying to hid every time her grandmother was in the house with her, she wouldn't have run away while leaving two "strange men" in their house to pack up her stuff, and she would have been able to figure out that she needed to go back to Yale without the help of a guy she hadn't seen in almost 2 years.

 

 

* Change of subject: who was paying for her apartment with Paris? Her first two years, she lived on campus so her living expanses were a part of her college tuition. But then she moved off campus, in a non-dorm apartment. Were Richard and Emily footing the bill there too? Were they sending a check every month to her landlord? Did Lorelai pay for that apartment? Clearly she didn't pay for it herself because she didn't work, and if she was, she would have been able to stay in there after dropping out of Yale. So if she wasn't paying, Lorelai hated the place, would she pay for her to live there when she thought it wasn't safe? And if E & R were paying, the same thing applies. Wouldn't they pay for an apartment closer in safety and style to Logan's? And this brings up her conversation about food, and eating ramen when you're in college. Were her grandparents or her mother giving her an allowance every month? Again, apart from that cafeteria job in her first year, she didn't work. How did she get her money for all her expanses? First 2 years are covered with tuition fees but not the last 2.

[stan4]

She didn't live in the apartment before she quit Yale.

She moved into it second semester 3rd year.  Right around the time Chris offered to pay for Yale.

[marineg]

That's very true. But still, Chris doesn't pay for it. 

 

LORELAI: Let's call daddy. Make him pay for an apartment with one lock.
RORY: No. Look, this is the way it's supposed to be. I am in college. Don't you see? I'm supposed to live in a crappy apartment. I'm supposed to eat ramen noodles and mac and cheese for months. I've been living in a pool house with maids and fresh-cut flowers and mints on my pillow every night.

[Alice Mudgarden]

Rory talking about how it's "supposed" to be smacks of someone who doesn't know/has forgotten hardship. I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

[andromeda331]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:36 AM, marineg said:

Let's be honest here. Rory claims to be this very mature person who can live on her own and manage her life without help from anyone. In the show, that was never proven.

She moved in with her grandparents when she could have easily gotten a job and an apartment, or moved in with Logan, or even stayed in her apartment with Paris*. She chose to move in the house where her mother became a teenage mother and ran away from when she was 17. She new what she was doing. She knew there would be rules. Simply because Richard and Emily made an effort in the first few months to let her have her life, independent from theirs, doesn't mean she just got a new set of grandparents.

Plus, if she was such a grown-up who could manage her life as she so often told everyone, she wouldn't have stolen a boat, she wouldn't have spoken to the pastor in that way, she would have had a conversation with her grandparents instead of trying to hid every time her grandmother was in the house with her, she wouldn't have run away while leaving two "strange men" in their house to pack up her stuff, and she would have been able to figure out that she needed to go back to Yale without the help of a guy she hadn't seen in almost 2 years.

 

 

* Change of subject: who was paying for her apartment with Paris? Her first two years, she lived on campus so her living expanses were a part of her college tuition. But then she moved off campus, in a non-dorm apartment. Were Richard and Emily footing the bill there too? Were they sending a check every month to her landlord? Did Lorelai pay for that apartment? Clearly she didn't pay for it herself because she didn't work, and if she was, she would have been able to stay in there after dropping out of Yale. So if she wasn't paying, Lorelai hated the place, would she pay for her to live there when she thought it wasn't safe? And if E & R were paying, the same thing applies. Wouldn't they pay for an apartment closer in safety and style to Logan's? And this brings up her conversation about food, and eating ramen when you're in college. Were her grandparents or her mother giving her an allowance every month? Again, apart from that cafeteria job in her first year, she didn't work. How did she get her money for all her expanses? First 2 years are covered with tuition fees but not the last 2.

Very good points. If she really was mature she would have been able to live on her own which never happen. She never even had a job except for sometimes she helped out at the Inn for functions although they never clarified how often that happened. And the card swiping thing. Which she complained endlessly about even though it was really simple and the only episode she did that job she too busy studying to do that. Most of them ended up swiping themselves. At the end of the season she talks about getting a job because that one didn't pay a lot of money but it never happens. She runs off to Europe with Emily after sleeping with the married Dean and Mommy not being happy about it. Then never gets a job again. Its not like she's super busy with a bunch of different clubs or internships or something. Nope she spends the rest of the series never having a job. She is always being supported by her mother, her grandparents, Christopher and Logan. I assume Paris although she doesn't seem the type to accept that but they never said who was paying for the apartment. It wasn't Lorelai or Christopher since Lorelai suggested calling him to pay for an apartment and it couldn't be the grandparents. So where did the money come from? She's not independent and never has taken care of herself. She knew the rules when she moved into her grandparents that wasn't going to change and knew enough to sneak Logan into the poolhouse. Yet she acts so surprised when after they learn their have sex she's suddenly moved back into the house in the room next door to them. Why are you surprised? You know how your grandparents would react or you wouldn't have been sneaking Logan in. Again its really hard to feel sorry for her when they paid for everything and she only didn't like when the sex came up. And she doesn't do the mature thing by getting a job and finding her own place. She continues to live with them and lie about her whereabouts at night. Now that's mature. So is just up and moving out without telling her grandparents and sending two boys to get her stuff. It was also  very mature of Rory to make the decision to drop out of Yale, move in with her grandparents, and yet not be the one to tell her mother. No, she makes her grandparents be the one to tell her. That comes after she very maturely stole a boat because she got a bad review. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

Rory talking about how it's "supposed" to be smacks of someone who doesn't know/has forgotten hardship. I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

She really does. Obviously, she doesn't remember much of those days living in a potting shed. Talking about living a crappy apartment and eating Ramen noodles that sounds like something she read books or watch on TV and thinks that looks so fun. She might want to "experience" it but has no idea what its really like and would never last a day or two living like that. Struggling, being poor, only having enough money for Ramen noodles? The girl who couldn't find a place to study until she found her study tree? Its also hilarious when you remember this girl thinks she wants to cover wars and foxholes. Like the episode where Rory is shocked to find her mother clipping coupons and shocked that her mother ever clipped coupons. Rory, you lived in a freaking potting shed you really think your mother never clipped coupons?    

[stan4]

6 hours ago, marineg said:

That's very true. But still, Chris doesn't pay for it. 

 

LORELAI: Let's call daddy. Make him pay for an apartment with one lock.
RORY: No. Look, this is the way it's supposed to be. I am in college. Don't you see? I'm supposed to live in a crappy apartment. I'm supposed to eat ramen noodles and mac and cheese for months. I've been living in a pool house with maids and fresh-cut flowers and mints on my pillow every night.

 But that could also mean that  she asked for a certain budget for housing and it would only cover that kind of apartment.

 

 It's all very vague, but I have a hard time believing that she didn't include living expenses in "paying for Yale."

 

 I always saw it as either ASP basically forgetting about the whole financial thing like she normally does, or Lorelai telling Rory to ask Chris for more money for a better apartment.

[Anela]

10 hours ago, marineg said:

That's very true. But still, Chris doesn't pay for it. 

 

LORELAI: Let's call daddy. Make him pay for an apartment with one lock.
RORY: No. Look, this is the way it's supposed to be. I am in college. Don't you see? I'm supposed to live in a crappy apartment. I'm supposed to eat ramen noodles and mac and cheese for months. I've been living in a pool house with maids and fresh-cut flowers and mints on my pillow every night.

She didn't live there for long, though. She was with her grandparents until just before Thanksgiving, I think. With her mum over the holidays. She was with Paris briefly, until the kerfuffle at the paper, when they went on strike, and then voted for Rory to take over as their boss. That's when she moved in with Logan. As he pointed out when they were arguing, she didn't pay rent at his place. Was she supposed to being sharing the rent with Paris, when she lived with Logan? Or did Doyle pay the rest? 

[Alice Mudgarden]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Like the episode where Rory is shocked to find her mother clipping coupons and shocked that her mother ever clipped coupons. Rory, you lived in a freaking potting shed you really think your mother never clipped coupons?

Just the sheer horror at the act of cutting coupons. I was floored by everything having to do with that. What's wrong with using coupons?

[readster]

8 minutes ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

Just the sheer horror at the act of cutting coupons. I was floored by everything having to do with that. What's wrong with using coupons?

I completely agree or when she brought up how Lorelai no longer got magazines. Even saying how they got almost every magazine monthly. Really? Lorelai wasted money on magazine subscriptions on books she probably could have cared less about? Then Rory gets upset she stopped doing that? Saving money on not buying crap you usually throw in the recycling bin or can read for free at the diner? The horror!

[marineg]

7 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

Just the sheer horror at the act of cutting coupons. I was floored by everything having to do with that. What's wrong with using coupons?

What? Saving money? Not giving away your hard-earned money to corporations that don't need it so you can make ends meet? I don't think we can be friends anymore...

Edited July 13, 2018 by marineg

[Guest]

Remember the job she had for a week at the bookstore where she spent more than she made? Ugh. I know Lorelai ended up paying for those, but come on. Libraries exist. Self control is a thing. Just because a book sounds interesting, you do not need to own it!

[shron17]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Then never gets a job again.

Not to defend Rory, or even imply she's not as bad as y'all are saying, but we saw her get two jobs after that.  The one at the DAR with Emily and the one at the Stanford Gazette that she begged for after she moved out of the Gilmore house.  Just because we didn't see  working all the time doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't bringing in some money, probably enough to pay for at least some of her expenses.

[ghoulina]

I didn't think Rory's reaction to the coupons, magazines, movie channels, etc was because she thought it was so bad that Lorelai was budgeting. I thought it was more about Lorelai hiding a potential problem from Rory. She was worried about the changes and why Lorelai hadn't said anything. I'm generally loathe to defend Rory, but that was the impression I got. 

[stan4]

3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I didn't think Rory's reaction to the coupons, magazines, movie channels, etc was because she thought it was so bad that Lorelai was budgeting. I thought it was more about Lorelai hiding a potential problem from Rory. She was worried about the changes and why Lorelai hadn't said anything. I'm generally loathe to defend Rory, but that was the impression I got. 

Exactly.

I thought she was concerned.  Kind of lightly joking about it.

[Anela]

14 hours ago, deaja said:

Remember the job she had for a week at the bookstore where she spent more than she made? Ugh. I know Lorelai ended up paying for those, but come on. Libraries exist. Self control is a thing. Just because a book sounds interesting, you do not need to own it!

I wondered how Lorelai paid for them, when she was clipping coupons not long before.

13 hours ago, shron17 said:

Not to defend Rory, or even imply she's not as bad as y'all are saying, but we saw her get two jobs after that.  The one at the DAR with Emily and the one at the Stanford Gazette that she begged for after she moved out of the Gilmore house.  Just because we didn't see  working all the time doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't bringing in some money, probably enough to pay for at least some of her expenses.

It's okay to defend Rory. :)