S07.E08: The Cavi-Art Of War

[ryebread]

And it definitely puts the lie to her not wanting to work, because that is the most thankless, tedious volunteer work you will ever do.

 

I thought it was funny when the Countess said she was surprised that a woman like Carole would run for a board seat.  Because Carole doesn't get up before noon, can't water her plants and doesn't have a kitchen.

For someone who claims never to cook and never to use her kitchen, Carole sure seems entirely uninformed about food delivery and catering.  She does realize that whatever deli/diner she is buying her sandwiches would be more than happy to prepare a platter of sandwiches and deliver them to her for her guests, right? 

 

Oh yeah.  I forgot about the part when Beth shows up at the door and Carole says something like 'thank god, you brought food.'  I mean, she invites 8 women over for a (hopefully) celebratory occasion and all she has is expired cheese puffs?  At least we know she's not schtupping the chef for free catering. ;-)

[WireWrap]

Yes, different situations but my point was more about telling someone to "FIX" something that they've already been desperately trying to do for their child. It can sound to a hypersensitive parent (Holla Bethenny!) like they haven't done enough.  And here comes someone commanding you gotta just fix that.

 

Also, Heather spoke honestly about Jax's problems.  But don't think that Beth wouldn't be giving us an earful about custody if she were able.

But Heather did not tell Bethenny to fix anything! She repeated what Bethenny told her but in her own words adding in words of support/sympathy in an attempt to bond/get to know her. Bethenny said nothing to Heather about not wanting to talk about the custody issue with her at the time because it was Bethenny that started that whole conversation on camera, just like she did with every HW that entered Carole's apartment that day. Bethenny only objected to that conversation with Heather months later in a TH, not to her face at the time, talk about milking sympathy from the viewers over milk she, Bethenny, spilled! LOL

[Celia Rubenstein]

Yes, different situations but my point was more about telling someone to "FIX" something that they've already been desperately trying to do for their child. It can sound to a hypersensitive parent (Holla Bethenny!) like they haven't done enough.  And here comes someone commanding you gotta just fix that.

 

I agree.  After a draining custody fight and while still neck deep in an ugly divorce, and probably feeling a lot of guilt about how it is effecting her child, all a woman needs is be told she's "gotta fix" something.  Like she didn't try hard enough at the time.  Or like she doesn't know the result is unsatisfactory and wishes she could change it. 

 

What Heather said did come across as commanding, I agree Ryebread.  I can't think of a much better way to totally shut someone down.  It felt far from supportive to me.

 

I mean, she invites 8 women over for a (hopefully) celebratory occasion and all she has is expired cheese puffs?  At least we know she's not schtupping the chef for free catering. ;-)

 

I think Carole said Chef Baby Greens was in Nicaragua.  If he had been around, I am sure he would have whipped up salad on bagels for everyone.  

Edited June 2, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Grneyedldy]

For someone who claims never to cook and never to use her kitchen, Carole sure seems entirely uninformed about food delivery and catering.  She does realize that whatever deli/diner she is buying her sandwiches would be more than happy to prepare a platter of sandwiches and deliver them to her for her guests, right?

That's just one more of Carole's hippy dippy ditzy acts. For gawd sakes the woman is 50 +, she's old enough to know that one provides food and drinks to their guest. You don't have to actually eat food to know how it gets from restaurants to homes. C'mon Carole pick up a phone and order something besides pizza.

[hottesthw]

But Heather did not tell Bethenny to fix anything! She repeated what Bethenny told her but in her own words adding in words of support/sympathy in an attempt to bond/get to know her. Bethenny said nothing to Heather about not wanting to talk about the custody issue with her at the time because it was Bethenny that started that whole conversation on camera, just like she did with every HW that entered Carole's apartment that day. Bethenny only objected to that conversation with Heather months later in a TH, not to her face at the time, talk about milking sympathy from the viewers over milk she, Bethenny, spilled! LOL

That's how I took the "fix it" comment. Like Heather was agreeing with Bethenny continuing her custody fight and saying "oh you gotta fix that sista" and high fiving her for doing so. I did not see Heather speaking in a way that Bethenny was slacking off and not fighting hard enough so she needed advice from Heather on what to do next.

I agree. After a draining custody fight and while still neck deep in an ugly divorce, and probably feeling a lot of guilt about how it is effecting her child, all a woman needs is be told she's "gotta fix" something. Like she didn't try hard enough at the time. Or like she doesn't know the result is unsatisfactory and wishes she could change it.

What Heather said did come across as commanding, I agree Ryebread. I can't think of a much better way to totally shut someone down. It felt far from supportive to me.

Based on Bethenny's endless whining about it on camera and the fact that her legal fight is constantly in the tabloids, I don't know why anyone would assume that Heather didn't know how hard Bethenny was fighting for her daughter. And be naive enough to think oh gee, let me advise her on what to do.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Based on Bethenny's endless whining about it on camera and the fact that her legal fight is constantly in the tabloids, I don't know why anyone would assume that Heather didn't know how hard Bethenny was fighting for her daughter. And be naive enough to think oh gee, let me advise her on what to do.

 

See, that's the thing ... I assume Heather did know all about Bethenny's court battles.  That is what makes her comments so completely obnoxious.  Heather was telling Bethenny she needed to fix to something which Bethenny was obviously already doing her best to deal with.  Comments like that put a person on the defensive because it sounds like you are being told you haven't done all you can.  When you know you damn well have done all you can, and you are already worn out and stressed from dealing with the problem, that's the last thing a person wants to hear. 

[breezy424]

See, that's the thing ... I assume Heather did know all about Bethenny's court battles.  That is what makes her comments so completely obnoxious.  Heather was telling Bethenny she needed to fix to something which Bethenny was obviously already doing her best to deal with.  Comments like that put a person on the defensive because it sounds like you are being told you haven't done all you can.  When you know you damn well have done all you can, and you are already worn out and stressed from dealing with the problem, that's the last thing a person wants to hear. 

It still doesn't change that Beth said nothing to Heather.  She only 'complained' after the fact in a TH.  Beth participated in the conversation.  She never made any 'defensive' reply to Heather.  She clarified that it wasn't six days and then continued the conversation about how she can't see Bryn whenever she wants.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Whether or not Bethenny said something at the time really makes no difference to me.  I have my own independent view of the exchange, and Beth's response (or lack of response) doesn't change my opinion of Heather's comments.  

 

That being said, I have to add that I don't agree with the notion that Bethenny's failure to protest what Heather was saying in the middle of a party necessarily means she wasn't bothered at the time, either.  She may well have wanted to avoid the risk of tangling with Heather face to face in the middle of Carole's gathering.  I personally give her credit for holding her tongue and not being confrontational as she is so often criticized for doing, rather than believing it negates her right to complain about it in a talking head later. 

[missy jo]

I mentioned this in the "First Looks" thread, but on the first look for this week, I saw something funny.  In the "Previously On" section, they showed a clip of Bethenny saying in a talking head "I don't have a good reason for not liking Heather, I just find her annoying."

That was not previously on!! We've never seen that clip before - it's the first time Bethenny has admitted any of those things - that she doesn't like Heather, that she finds her annoying, that there's no good reason. Looks like Bethenny did one also, and they ret-conned it in, I guess to "explain" what everyone else has noticed, that Bethenny is being nasty to Heather for no good reason.

 

 

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! As soon as that caller bashed Beth on WWHL at the beginning of the season, Andy panicked and set the editing monkeys to work on revamping her shitty attitude. I bet Heather's scenes and THs got cut in turn.

[breezy424]

Whether or not Bethenny said something at the time really makes no difference to me.  I have my own independent view of the exchange, and Beth's response (or lack of response) doesn't change my opinion of Heather's comments.  

 

That being said, I have to add that I don't agree with the notion that Bethenny's failure to protest what Heather was saying in the middle of a party necessarily means she wasn't bothered at the time, either.  She may well have wanted to avoid the risk of tangling with Heather face to face in the middle of Carole's gathering.  I personally give her credit for holding her tongue and not being confrontational as she is so often criticized for doing, rather than believing it negates her right to complain about it in a talking head later. 

I would agree with that but that is not Beth's personality.  Beth has no problem expressing herself or her feelings in any given situation.  Beth never holds her tongue.

 

That aside, why would there be any reason for Beth to 'fear' that there would be any sort of confrontation if Beth simply said, "I don't want to talk about it."  I give Beth credit for nothing except being a hypocrite for continuing a conversation that she later deemed offensive or too personal.  If that were the case, why didn't she just change the subject instead of continuing the conversation?

[Celia Rubenstein]

I would agree with that but that is not Beth's personality.  Beth has no problem expressing herself or her feelings in any given situation.  Beth never holds her tongue.

 

I can think of times when she has.  This season she certainly has not told Sonja how clearly bonkers she thinks she is, or that she is afraid Sonja is in bed with a den of thieves.  She seems afraid to hurt her feelings, so she has held back.  I think the best , most apropos example of Beth not voicing her feelings about something shitty someone said to her was when Ramona put her on blast during their crossing the bridge conversation.  Bethenny didn't express how she felt to Ramona at the time at all, although she was very hurt.  

 

I agree that Bethenny has no problem expressing herself, but I don't think she is nearly as incapable of restraint or being bothered by something but choosing to say nothing as is being suggested. 

 

That aside, why would there be any reason for Beth to 'fear' that there would be any sort of confrontation if Beth simply said, "I don't want to talk about it."  I give Beth credit for nothing except being a hypocrite for continuing a conversation that she later deemed offensive or too personal.  If that were the case, why didn't she just change the subject instead of continuing the conversation?

 

 

My immediate read on the situation was that Bethenny seemed more concerned with trying to correct what Heather had said (on camera) that was inaccurate. I can understand that being a bigger concern for her than trying to immediately end the conversation and let what Heather had put out there go as fact.  I think that is why the conversation continued.  If Bethenny had just cut things off, she wouldn't have had the chance to correct what Heather had said.

 

But I could also understand choosing not to tell Heather she didn't want to talk about yet another subject for the umpteenth time (e.g. Ramona, Kristin) and risk coming off as harsh.  At some point, especially with someone like Heather, you just have to let stuff slide because otherwise it is just one confrontation after another. I can see a person just getting tired of being the bad guy telling Heather to can it over and over and instead just waiting until she was done yapping and let the conversation topic shift more naturally to avoid another layer of awkwardness, especially in the middle of someone else's party. That was pretty much how she handled Heather during the car conversation at Luann's party, so it's not like she's never dealt with Heather that way before.

 

At any rate, it can't be known for sure how the conversation ended because the scene ended very quickly as they were in mid conversation. For all we know, Bethenny did end up telling her she didn't want to talk about it, or she made an obvious attempt to change the topic. Or she excused herself to the bathroom.  Or maybe they sat there and talked about it all night.  We don't know.  Bravo editors made the choice to cut the conversation short and go with a talking head to wrap up the topic. I guess they think it makes for better TV.  Instead I think they just left a lot of viewers wondering how the conversation ended.  

 

Maybe they will address it on the reunion.  My guess is Heather will bring it up, wanting to know why Bethenny was so offended.  Maybe we will get our answers then.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Celia Rubenstein]

I'd much rather be talking about Ramona. I wanna know why she was bringing Mario fish and I wanna know NOW!

[ryebread]

I'd much rather be talking about Ramona. I wanna know why she was bringing Mario fish and I wanna know NOW!

 

I wanna know why Heather wants a Maleficent tattoo, of all things. She understands the very definition of the word, right?  LOL.  I get that she's obsessed with the film but after some thought, I realize she must really identify with the villainess to have her likeness permanently inked on her hip.

 

Queen of the Moors?  Moor like Queen of Everything.

 

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! As soon as that caller bashed Beth on WWHL at the beginning of the season, Andy panicked and set the editing monkeys to work on revamping her shitty attitude. I bet Heather's scenes and THs got cut in turn.

 

I agree that some re-editing was done to shed some more sympathetic light on Beth but I don't think we've seen those scenes yet.  If anything, I'd wager we're going to see MORE Heather and the others, less Beth in the coming weeks.

[ryebread]

Queen of the Moors?  Moor like Queen of Everything.

 

Perfect.

 

[ZoloftBlob]

I would agree with that but that is not Beth's personality.  Beth has no problem expressing herself or her feelings in any given situation.  Beth never holds her tongue

 

Along with Celia's examples of Bethenny holding her tongue, I can also recall several moments in the Scary Island debacle where Bethenny was almost biting her tongue in order to not say something to Kelly. Likewise there's been any number of conversations with Jill where Bethenny didn't rehash their every unpleasant moment despite it being warranted. I think this is where the Bethenny portion of the conversation gets bogged down - "Bethenny never does this, Bethenny is incapable of not doing that" because then people do provide examples

[quaintirene]

I do like Bethenny.  And I'd much much rather hang with her than any of the other bitches except (maybe) LuAnn.  But I'm pretty sure that her attempts to help Sonja out are a cold-blooded play to show that (a) she is a great businesswoman and (b) she can be a loyal friend and © she has a softer more attractive side to her.  I don't think she overlapped with Sonja before or if she did it wasn't much so she doesn't have any leftover beef with her.  Sonja is a harmless drunken mess but not as out-there as Kelly and so unlikely to really take off after Bethenny.  So basically Bethenny has an ideal way to show warmth and friendliness without any serious or lasting comeback.  In Real Life I don't think Bethenny goes within 50' of Sonja or anyone like her.

[ZoloftBlob]

In Real Life I don't think Bethenny goes within 50' of Sonja or anyone like her.

 

I completely agree, but honestly I would apply that "fake" brush to any number of the housewives when it comes to Sonja. Heather would never have worked with her, she would have dropped such a hot mess of a client early on and Sonja is NOT Carol's kind of people.

 

Circling back to other housewives... I also kind of wonder what the general honest opinion is of Sonja's "vitamins" and booze regimen.

[Mozelle]

Bethenny won't hold her tongue for too long with Sonja if clips from the upcoming Turks & Caicos episodes are to be believed. She's actively and loudly yelling at Sonja to "Shut the fuck up!". All the "concern" she showed for Sonja at the beginning of the season seemed more about not aligning herself with the newer HWs who were like, "Good grief, Sonja is ridiculous!"

[shoegal]

Bethenny won't hold her tongue for too long with Sonja if clips from the upcoming Turks & Caicos episodes are to be believed. She's actively and loudly yelling at Sonja to "Shut the fuck up!". All the "concern" she showed for Sonja at the beginning of the season seemed more about not aligning herself with the newer HWs who were like, "Good grief, Sonja is ridiculous!"

I believe Bethenny was acting on left over affection for Sonja, from the Scary Island incident specifically. It wasn't long after that time that Bethenny left RHNY and cut off contact, and not only was Sonja not crazy back then (although she did still talk about her yachts) but I believe there was a bit of a bond created on that trip. I don't blame Bethenny for not taking the word of Heather et al that Sonja is crazy, until she sees it for herself!

[Mozelle]

I believe Bethenny was acting on left over affection for Sonja, from the Scary Island incident specifically. It wasn't long after that time that Bethenny left RHNY and cut off contact, and not only was Sonja not crazy back then (although she did still talk about her yachts) but I believe there was a bit of a bond created on that trip. I don't blame Bethenny for not taking the word of Heather et al that Sonja is crazy, until she sees it for herself!

 

Yeah, but do you really think that Bethenny hadn't been following along even after she left the show? I have my doubts that October 2014 (when this season started filming) was the first time Bethenny heard about Sonja and her grand delusions on a toaster oven or a perfume or a Nigerian football team or the yachts that she hosted Diddy on.  

[shoegal]

Yeah, but do you really think that Bethenny hadn't been following along even after she left the show? I have my doubts that October 2014 (when this season started filming) was the first time Bethenny heard about Sonja and her grand delusions on a toaster oven or a perfume or a Nigerian football team or the yachts that she hosted Diddy on.

I really do believe she has not been following along, I think she's had quite a bit going on in her personal/professional life and doesn't care to keep up with Sonja or the show.

Edited June 2, 2015 by shoegal

[breezy424]

Interesting that the scene of Bethenny and Ro on the bridge has been brought up.  Was it a case of Beth restraining herself or on of Beth hearing something that she knew was the truth.

 

From some of the recaps:

Ramona then says she thinks that Bethenny planted the article from the last episode. When Bethenny voices how offended she is by the comment, the argument escalates. I don't know what Ramona is thinking. Can she hear herself? After calling her a "press monger" and "self-serving," Bethenny called her "ingrateful." And then Ramona goes low when she tells Bethenny she has no friends and that she'll probably mess it up with Jason, too.

 

But then halfway across Ramona turned her neck too many degrees, like an owl, and peered at Bethenny strangely. Bethenny stopped and stared back, she felt a cold dread creeping toward her heart. Something was not right. Something was seriously not right. Ramona's face flickered and seemed to grow brighter, harsher, more urgent. "You know, you're kind of terrible," she said to Bethenny in an oddly breezy way. It was the Jill stuff that had set her off I guess, and Bethenny looked thunderstruck. This old, horrid conversation topic had struck a nerve with someone? Unbelievable! Ramona, not done with her meal, continued on. "You're a fame whore and you don't have any friends. Who are your friends? You have Jason, but he'll probably leave you, just like everyone else does."

[Giselle]

I think Heather needs to think about the Maleficient tattoo for 5 years. If she is still fond of the character I'd say go for it. That being said I hate 99.99999% of tattoos.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Giselle

[WireWrap]

I wondered if she identified with the Maleficient who was betrayed by someone she loved and rose again. Remember it was Mal's childhood friend that she became very fond of and grew to love who chopped off her wings one night to gain a throne. He kept her wings imprisoned and went to war against her to kill her and  in the end Mal won and got her wings back.

 

Heather was abused and almost beaten to death by her ex-husband who was her childhood love. She survived and thrived, now she has a has a family and an empire. I think that is the side of Maleficent's story she identifies with.

 

http://abc11.com/archive/6843600/

 

Still, I'd tell her to wait another 5 years, if she still has the Maleficient love then go for it. I for one hate 99.9999999% of  tattoos.

I don't think that is the same Heather. NY's Heather was born and raised in NY State, not NC, and has 2 children, son Jax and daughter Ella, both who are elementary age, not 2 grown daughters.

[breezy424]

That's not Heather in that article.  Heather's last name is spelled 'Thomson', not 'Thompson'.

[Mya Stone]

I didn't want to do this, but I beg you all - 

If it wasn't in the episode, and was off camera, take it to the thread of the HW you're discussing. If it involves multiple HW AND something that happened in a previous season, take it to the Memory Lane thread. If it happened in a previous episode of this season, take it to that episode thread, or the HW's thread. You pick! 

Thanks! 

[FozzyBear]

Sooooo the dinner party? I'm confused about a great number of things. I honestly have no idea what the fight was about or why anyone in the Ramona/Heather/Luanne melee was upset. I don't understand what Ramona was trying to argue, but I also don't understand why Luanne and Heather were so offended. Crazy all around. But before we even get started what on earth was Heather's TH about Ramona and her date all about? Did I miss something? Why did Heather think Ramona brought a date to impress her? She mentioned she was seeing someone and then brought him as a date, right? Was it a different guy? Was Heather's attitude because Ramona brought Mario fish (which, whaaaaaaaat? Gotta know more about that!)? Why was this a thing? I got lost there.

[WireWrap]

Sooooo the dinner party? I'm confused about a great number of things. I honestly have no idea what the fight was about or why anyone in the Ramona/Heather/Luanne melee was upset. I don't understand what Ramona was trying to argue, but I also don't understand why Luanne and Heather were so offended. Crazy all around. But before we even get started what on earth was Heather's TH about Ramona and her date all about? Did I miss something? Why did Heather think Ramona brought a date to impress her? She mentioned she was seeing someone and then brought him as a date, right? Was it a different guy? Was Heather's attitude because Ramona brought Mario fish (which, whaaaaaaaat? Gotta know more about that!)? Why was this a thing? I got lost there.

 

Heather was trying to give a compliment to Ramona who then used that compliment to slap Heather and then LuAnn. It is Ramona's contention that Heather was standoffish and  cold to her when she joined the cast, not the other way around. I loved how the editors added in the clip from Ramona's party where Heather is trying, awkwardly, to connect with Ramona and Ramona insults her. Ramona was the same way to Alex, Cindy and Kelly when they each joined the show, she does not do well with newbies unless she knew them prior to the show.

 

I think Heathers comment about Ramona's date was meant to say/convey that was impressed that Ramona brought her date to the party around other HWs, not that she did it to impress Heather specifically. So far in this season, she, Ramona, has been "coy" about dating any guy or doing it in front of the others/cameras.

[ryebread]

Heather was trying to give a compliment to Ramona who then used that compliment to slap Heather and then LuAnn.

 

So is Heather just being misunderstood?  She was trying to give a compliment to Ramona and Ramona took it as an insult.  She was trying to be supportive to Bethenny and Bethenny took it badly, too. 

 

Do the women who spend a lot of time with her know something that we don't know?  Maybe they've seen her in action enough to know that most compliments or supportive gestures are backhanded. Is she not expressing herself well? Or are Bethenny and Ramona and anyone else who is offended/annoyed by Heather just looking for something to be annoyed about?  And if so, why?  Do people just start slapping at people for no good reason?  I don't think so.  I think there's good reason.

[Trooper York]

You have to realize that in the "Game of Housewives" it is just a replay of "Lord of the Flies"(to mash up two cultural references).

 

Nobody wants to be elected to play the role of Piggy!

[Mozelle]

But it's Ramona. Her first instinct is to always lash out.

[WireWrap]

So is Heather just being misunderstood?  She was trying to give a compliment to Ramona and Ramona took it as an insult.  She was trying to be supportive to Bethenny and Bethenny took it badly, too. 

 

Do the women who spend a lot of time with her know something that we don't know?  Maybe they've seen her in action enough to know that most compliments or supportive gestures are backhanded. Is she not expressing herself well? Or are Bethenny and Ramona and anyone else who is offended/annoyed by Heather just looking for something to be annoyed about?  And if so, why?  Do people just start slapping at people for no good reason?  I don't think so.  I think there's good reason.

IMO, the producers, Andy and Bethenny are using Heather to redeem Bethenny to the viewers in hopes for a Bethenny ever after spin off. And I do not believe that Bethenny has spent any time getting to know Heather at all. As for Ramona, she did not know Heather at all when she claims Heather was "fake" towards her. In fact, the clip they showed between them from Heather's first season, supports that it was Ramona that was "fake". Ramona has done this to every single NY HW that she did not know prior to joining the show, including Bethenny! LOL

[Giselle]

I don't think that is the same Heather. NY's Heather was born and raised in NY State, not NC, and has 2 children, son Jax and daughter Ella, both who are elementary age, not 2 grown daughters.

 

You 100% totally right. I had read an article a great while back and thought it was her so I posted. When I went to find a link to add to the post  "HOLY CRAP!"

I was just going to delete the post but you caught it. So as not to put out false info I deleted the majority of it but kept the last part about the tattoo.

 

Everyone,I am sorry for posting the wrong information. God I'm embarrassed! I'm so sorry.

[imjagain]

So is Heather just being misunderstood? She was trying to give a compliment to Ramona and Ramona took it as an insult. She was trying to be supportive to Bethenny and Bethenny took it badly, too.

Do the women who spend a lot of time with her know something that we don't know? Maybe they've seen her in action enough to know that most compliments or supportive gestures are backhanded. Is she not expressing herself well? Or are Bethenny and Ramona and anyone else who is offended/annoyed by Heather just looking for something to be annoyed about? And if so, why? Do people just start slapping at people for no good reason? I don't think so. I think there's good reason.

Ramona has never been kind to Heather. She has always taken every opportunity to be rude and nasty to Heather.

Imo Ramona never needs a reason to be rude and nasty. She just is. Same goes for Beth.

Ramona imo wants to be on Beth's side. And if she can slap Heather for no good reason, Ramona will jump at it, I'm not shocked by that. I'd be more shocked to see Ramona be nice to Heather.

So, I guess idk what good reason you mean.

Edited June 2, 2015 by imjagain

[Celia Rubenstein]

IMO, the producers, Andy and Bethenny are using Heather to redeem Bethenny to the viewers in hopes for a Bethenny ever after spin off.

 

I don't know if it is about making Bethenny look good.  I think Heather is just the one designated to get the bad edit this season.  They pick one every go-round, and it's just her turn. I think that is why we are hearing all those comments about Sonja from her.    Heather would be so much more likable without those little barely-camouflaged digs, but Bravo is emphasizing every one.  I don't think it's an accident.  But I don't think it has anything to do with enhancing Bethenny's image.   Heather's comments about Sonja have nothing to do with her.  They just make Heather look like a jerk.  I think that is Bravo's goal.

 

That being said, as we all know, Bravo can't show what the housewives don't give them.  And Heather is serving up some pretty petty stuff where Sonja is concerned.  I don't like what it says about her.  She is no well-wisher, that's for sure. 

[breezy424]

You 100% totally right. I had read an article a great while back and thought it was her so I posted. When I went to find a link to add to the post  "HOLY CRAP!"

I was just going to delete the post but you caught it. So as not to put out false info I deleted the majority of it but kept the last part about the tattoo.

 

Everyone,I am sorry for posting the wrong information. God I'm embarrassed! I'm so sorry.

No worries....

[Trooper York]

So the bad edit of Heather can be construed as the "Revenge of Aviva!" It's your turn in the barrel and Carole is nowhere to be seen.

 

You have to be pulling my leg. Oh crap it came off!

[WireWrap]

I don't know if it is about making Bethenny look good.  I think Heather is just the one designated to get the bad edit this season.  They pick one every go-round, and it's just her turn. I think that is why we are hearing all those comments about Sonja from her.    Heather would be so much more likable without those little barely-camouflaged digs, but Bravo is emphasizing every one.  I don't think it's an accident.  But I don't think it has anything to do with enhancing Bethenny's image.   Heather's comments about Sonja have nothing to do with her.  They just make Heather look like a jerk.  I think that is Bravo's goal.

 

That being said, as we all know, Bravo can't show what the housewives don't give them.  And Heather is serving up some pretty petty stuff where Sonja is concerned.  I don't like what it says about her.  She is no well-wisher, that's for sure. 

It could be that it is just Heathers turn but IMO, just mine, Bravo is desperate to redeem Bethenny and because Heather is smart, strong, has a solid private life and was/is successful in her own right before ever joining the show, she has become the #1 target. Bethenny's also makes comments like Heather does yet, IMO, they are giving her a much, much softer edit so far this season. Of course, that could all change later on in the season but I really don't think it will change all that much. Andy wants, needs, Bethenny to come out looking/smelling like a winner this season. JMO

[FozzyBear]

So is Heather just being misunderstood? She was trying to give a compliment to Ramona and Ramona took it as an insult. She was trying to be supportive to Bethenny and Bethenny took it badly, too.

Do the women who spend a lot of time with her know something that we don't know? Maybe they've seen her in action enough to know that most compliments or supportive gestures are backhanded. Is she not expressing herself well? Or are Bethenny and Ramona and anyone else who is offended/annoyed by Heather just looking for something to be annoyed about? And if so, why? Do people just start slapping at people for no good reason? I don't think so. I think there's good reason.

I don't know. My personal take is Heather is condescending and irritating as hell...but I think she doesn't mean to be? Maybe it's a situational thing? Like some days you appreciate her good intentions and some days you are just not in the mood to get a gold star from Teacher Heather? So maybe Ramona wasn't in a great mood and took whatever Heather said about her growing (I'll admit I missed it) as sort of patronizing?

[Giselle]

It could be that it is just Heathers turn but IMO, just mine, Bravo is desperate to redeem Bethenny and because Heather is smart, strong, has a solid private life and was/is successful in her own right before ever joining the show, she has become the #1 target. Bethenny's also makes comments like Heather does yet, IMO, they are giving her a much, much softer edit so far this season. Of course, that could all change later on in the season but I really don't think it will change all that much. Andy wants, needs, Bethenny to come out looking/smelling like a winner this season. JMO

 

With all her bitching and crying she doesn't impress me as a winner but more as just a successful  mess. I'm already tired of Bethany going on and on or crying about her daughter or Beth's bad childhood every episode. "Get off the Frickin TV since time with your daughter is so precious, I'm tired of hearing about it every other scene you have. Talk about Sonja being a broken record. Geez, pot meet kettle!"

 

......And I liked her pre skinny girl. She has turned into Jill.

[motorcitymom65]

Ramona has never been kind to Heather. She has always taken every opportunity to be rude and nasty to Heather.

Imo Ramona never needs a reason to be rude and nasty. She just is. Same goes for Beth.

Ramona imo wants to be on Beth's side. And if she can slap Heather for no good reason, Ramona will jump at it, I'm not shocked by that. I'd be more shocked to see Ramona be nice to Heather.

So, I guess idk what good reason you mean.

She was horrid to Heather in their first interaction. Telling her - on camera - that she was talking over her and not listening was beyond rude. Both she and Mario seemed to want to put her in her place immediately. Both Lu and Sonja said at the reunion that Heather was extremely nervous about being on camera in the beginning and Ramona took that opportunity to try and make her look foolish. Then she made the statement that Heather should not have mentioned the fact that her father had just passed days before at a social event. Didn't she call it a "downer"?

Ramona slightly redeemed herself to me in her blog this week. She acknowledged that Heather was trying to pay her a compliment and said she should have accepted it with grace. She no doubt realized that she has been talking on the show about how much she has changed, which makes her lashing out and becoming insulting to Heather and Lu seem silly. The strange thing was that I had been struck by the fact that Heather and Ramona had become much closer this season. Heather talked about keeping in contact with her during the hiatus, something Sonja had not done. At breakfast when they were in AC, Ramona greeted Heather so warmly, pretty much sitting in her lap and hugging her. She asked Heather if she had made a fool out of herself the night before when she was partying, and Heather rubbed her back and told her she had been lovely. They seemed to be really enjoying being with each other.

[tulip555]

Do we believe Beth is a narcissist? Also, do we think she is capable of empathy? Just curious what you all think.

She is definitely something....I would love to hear what a mental health professional had to say about her.....and not someone they found for the show. I think she would make quite a textbook study.

[bravofan27]

I feel that if Heather was really concerned and truly wanted to be friends with Bethenny, she wouldn't have been so upset when Bethenny told her to back off. If you care about someone or are concerned about someone, you feel bad when you overstep, not defensive and angry.

[WireWrap]

I feel that if Heather was really concerned and truly wanted to be friends with Bethenny, she wouldn't have been so upset when Bethenny told her to back off. If you care about someone or are concerned about someone, you feel bad when you overstep, not defensive and angry.

When did Bethenny tell Heather to "back off"? Was it face to face or was it in a TH?

[Celia Rubenstein]

I feel that if Heather was really concerned and truly wanted to be friends with Bethenny, she wouldn't have been so upset when Bethenny told her to back off. If you care about someone or are concerned about someone, you feel bad when you overstep, not defensive and angry.

 

Heather was pretty snide about Bethenny in her blog.  She was clearly bothered.  Very defensive. She put all the blame for their ... issues ... on Bethenny.  She had a chance to walk it back a little bit, but that's not our Heather.  She continued right down the path to toward total alienation, lol.  

 

I guess she figures since there is not going to be a friendship, they might as well be complete enemies.  Maybe she thinks that will save her apple.

[DebbieM4]

First of all, I would not be comfortable with someone just up and asking me about my custody situation (I'm going through something similar right now), but if they did, I would give a brief answer and then want to move on. The problem with what happened with Heather, in my eyes, was not even so much that she initially asked, it was her buttinsky reaction to everything. "Oh, that has to change." "Oh, I don't like that." Etc. Heather, shut up. These things are legal matters and you have to strive to find some ground to agree on and no it is NOT perfect and no you do NOT like the fact that you can't go get your kid at school when it is the Dad's day, but that is what you have agreed to. Someone coming in and placing judgement on it with their "Oh, that has to change" only succeeds at making the woman feel like a bad mother for not pushing to...what? Have 100% access to the child and in the process taking it away from the father? And, please, it's not like Bethenny WANTS to give Jason anything, I think we all know that. Keep your trap shut about it, Heather. SHUT. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's how I saw it too.  "Oh, that has to change" is what caught my attention.  I think that's a ballsy thing to say to someone you hardly know, and I doubt I would even say that to a close girlfriend.   She may think she's being helpful and coming across as caring, but it's insensitive to act like such a know-it-all when she doesn't have the slightest idea what it's like to be in Bethenny's situation.  I understand that Heather is a successful woman who seems pretty on the ball in several areas, but she really needs to tone down her whole "I'm an expert on everything" attitude.  There are kinder ways to be supportive and sympathetic. 

[StevieRocks]

Completely agree about Ramona and her statement about lots of people not wanting to sit by John. Talk about entitled.

 

And delusional. I'm going to need someone to finally explain to Moaner that she is a substandard, dirty, white-trash ape and nothing more. She comes across as an uneducated, desperate menopausal hag, and she has the audacity to behave as a snob?? I noticed that this year she's perfectly okay with the Berkshires after berating Heather last year and going off on an illiterate diatribe about where the well-to-do vacation. She sounded like a silly 1940s housewife with her list of 'swanky' places then, and she sounds like a desperate poseur with her put-downs of John now. You are not to the manor born, Moaner, and your white-trash roots show every time you bark up with your nitwittery.

[SFoster21]

Sing it, Stevie. We know you can.

[FamilyVan]

Nothing wrong about getting a deal with K Mart.  Just ask Martha Stewart.  Adam Levine and Nicki Menaj also have lines at K Mart as well as Selena Gomez.

 

 

And Sonja is nowhere even close to being as known as these people.  Joke around all you want about K-Mart and how suggesting this is a put-down, but the truth is Sonja is not popular enough to even get K-mart. She's not good enough.  LuAnn figured out where she could get into, knowing she is not  J-Lo or Daisy Fuentas, and is actually collecting paychecks from her line, while Sonja keeps sinking money into her International High End Lifestyle whatever that is.  

[motorcitymom65]

And delusional. I'm going to need someone to finally explain to Moaner that she is a substandard, dirty, white-trash ape and nothing more. She comes across as an uneducated, desperate menopausal hag, and she has the audacity to behave as a snob?? I noticed that this year she's perfectly okay with the Berkshires after berating Heather last year and going off on an illiterate diatribe about where the well-to-do vacation. She sounded like a silly 1940s housewife with her list of 'swanky' places then, and she sounds like a desperate poseur with her put-downs of John now. You are not to the manor born, Moaner, and your white-trash roots show every time you bark up with your nitwittery.

The best part about the whole Berkshires deal is that that Ramona didn't want to go there last season before she ever got a glimpse of Heather's house. She was screaming "who goes to the Berkshires" like a crazy loon. Now of course she has seen Dorinda's home and it is lovely. Apparently now the Berkishire's is A-OK with her because the house is big.