Season 6: Speculation

[Danny Franks]

 I was in it for the mystery of who Jon really was.  I was in it for these special warging Stark children who might be the key to saving the North, but now I get few warging moments and even less Dire Wolves. Oh yea and no real North Remembers and no Rickon.  And now I just don't care.  I don't care to see Bran be a tree, Aya become no one, and Sansa and Theon be hunted down by Ramsey.  I also don't care about her learning to play the game and flirt with LF.

 

That's pretty much how I've felt about the books for a long time now. Back when Book 6 was due to be called A Time For Wolves, I was desperately looking forward to it. It promised the resurgence of the Starks, this ancient family of the North, with an unbroken line and huge importance placed on their role in the world. Even when things were at their darkest, with Robb being murdered, and all but Sansa lost to the world, I held on to that.

 

Then GRRM changed the title, and it gave me pause. With the paucity of Starks left, and those still alive losing their identities, while other families flourish and seem to have a never ending pool of adjunct members to draw on (seriously, how many fucking Lannisters are there?), I've already been struggling to hold on to the idea that anything remains except extinction. But at least in the books, there were also the Martells, who seemed like they might be plotting the downfall of the family that destroyed the Starks. In the show? Seems like that's pretty much ruined.

 

Perhaps it's not 'sophisticated enough' for some that I want a set of characters to actually root for, but I couldn't give a toss. I don't read fantasy novels for the sort of hopeless nihilism that some readers of these books seem to yearn for. The genre is bounded in hope and heroism, and it always will be. Now I may not believe for one second that Jon is actually dead, but that doesn't mean I feel like the rest of his journey will be worthwhile.

[Black Knight]

Maybe I'm just hoping Jaime will be the one to break away from Cersei.  I don't see that happening.

Cersei had to confess to sleeping with Lancel in the finale. I'm thinking that might fulfill the same function as Tyrion's "she's been fucking Lancel and Oswell and who knows who else" bit to Jaime at the end of ASoS, which in the books is a large part of what alienates Jaime from Cersei. But it will also likely be somewhat mutual since I'm sure Cersei is going to be super-upset with Jaime for being a terrible bodyguard.

 

As for the question of the books passing the show - let me say upfront that I've long accepted that the show will eventually pass the books. However, using the release date of the book is the wrong way to go. GRRM has allowed D&D to read his unpublished WoW material before and I expect he'll continue to allow them to read his unpublished material. We also know that GRRM's writing process is not chapter-by-chapter - that is, he doesn't just stay on one chapter and refuse to move on until he's gotten that chapter to where he wants it to be. He writes drafts for a lot of chapters and bounces around between polishing those and writing drafts of other chapters. He also has to spend time deciding on the best order in which to put the chapters. Which is all to say, he probably has pretty much most of WoW knocked out in rough draft form. So D&D basically have the next book to work with. It's S7 where they'll really be completely on their own with just a basic outline.

[Umbelina]

I'm beginning to think Kit really is NOT coming back.  If so, I think Jon will be resurrected, or warg, but will no longer be played by Kit.  He could become anything or anyone really, from a White Walker, to a wolf, to a human body of any type, whether warging into it, or somehow being resurrected as AA. 

[cambridgeguy]

 

With the paucity of Starks left, and those still alive losing their identities, while other families flourish and seem to have a never ending pool of adjunct members to draw on (seriously, how many fucking Lannisters are there?), I've already been struggling to hold on to the idea that anything remains except extinction. But at least in the books, there were also the Martells, who seemed like they might be plotting the downfall of the family that destroyed the Starks. In the show? Seems like that's pretty much ruined.

In the show the Baratheons are wiped out, the only Arryn is a wimpy child, the royal line is down to Tommen, there's still only one Targaryen, and the Tyrells are apparently in a very bad place.  By those standards the Starks are actually OK since 80% of the non-bastard Stark kids are still alive.  I suspect that all of the ruling families are in for a major downgrade by the time the series is over.

[nksarmi]

I'm beginning to think Kit really is NOT coming back. If so, I think Jon will be resurrected, or warg, but will no longer be played by Kit. He could become anything or anyone really, from a White Walker, to a wolf, to a human body of any type, whether warging into it, or somehow being resurrected as AA.

 

Maybe Jon will be AA reborn physically as well. Thats the only way I see them not needing Kit. I guess I could buy it even if I wouldnt like it much.

[Avaleigh]

I didn't realize that the show gave Kit a wrap party...fuck, really?

[SeanC]

I have no idea whether we're going to see Dorne again next season, but if we do, the opening scene had better be Doran having Ellaria, Tyene, Obara and Nym's heads mounted on spikes, considering they just murdered a girl who was under Doran's protection and in the process deliberately allowed Doran's own son and heir to become a Lannister captive. There is literally zero reason for any of those women to still be alive.

[Umbelina]

Honestly, Kit was pretty, but his acting was extremely limited.  Basically his best stuff was "look pained" or perhaps "look confused."  IF there is great stuff coming for him as AA, it would probably be better to give it to a better actor anyway.

 

ETA

 

I would really LOVE to see a poll, well, TWO polls really, about how people feel about certain characters and their arcs on the show.  The thing is, what I'd really like is a poll for MEN ONLY, and the same poll for WOMEN ONLY.  I just want to compare the responses.

 

I've noticed, for example, that the Greyjoy (pirate) scenes are usually very welcomed by one side, but not so much by the other.  That one side feels Sansa has be learning the Game quite well, and the other side just sees her victim-hood.  Not even to mention the opinions on the whores and violence as being either gratuitous or just part of that world and interesting to see.  Some love the big battle episodes, and some are bored silly with them.  I even think favorite characters may show a gender divide.  If not, I'd still like to know how it breaks down.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Umbelina

[nksarmi]

Honestly, Kit was pretty, but his acting was extremely limited.  Basically his best stuff was "look pained" or perhaps "look confused."  IF there is great stuff coming for him as AA, it would probably be better to give it to a better actor anyway.

I'm torn on this.  Visually, I want to connect Jon to the actor I've seen play him for five years.  But I guess what I really care about is that Jon's story matters.  I thought he would die in book 7 for some time.  I mean,  wasn't one of those fans who expected Jon and Dany to meet, defeat the Walkers, marry, and rule together happily ever after.  But I did think he was an end game character so if that means he is physically altered in the process, I will live with that. But Ghost better be at his side, no matter who plays him damn it!

[ParadoxLost]

Its difficult to even speculate what season 6 will bring because everything is such a shambles.  It feels like there are no longer any real contenders to hold or take the Iron Throne.  All of the factions have been weakened to the point that its ridiculous. At this point, Dany just needs to stroll into town and point at her dragon and its over.  Even that wouldn't be satisfying because she hasn't earned it; its just everyone else is so weak because they've murdered their way through the most formidable members of each faction.  This is why killing Tywin was dumb but killing Jon Snow was the height of idiocy.

 

Jon was the best chance to get everything back on track because he was in the best position to become a viable contender for the Throne. The reason they could kill off Robb was that Jon could eventually pick up the fractured allies from the North that followed Ned and Robb.  Jon had the ability to build a power base with Night Watch and then the Wildings.  Then they had the ability to use 'Winter is Coming' to build an alliance with the South led by Jon to fight the White Walkers to solidify his position.  Then they could reveal R + L = J and give him a claim on the Throne.  Reunite Jon with his four living siblings and there are some opportunities to build alliances through marriage.

 

Of those left I can't see anyone else who has the ability to hold the Throne.  I was expecting the fight with the White Walkers to happen first so Dany could get to a point where she was a legitimate contender to take the Throne.  I do admit, that I'm among those that expected Jon and Dany to end the war via an alliance/marriage.  I don't know what about this show has me thinking something so conventional instead of some petty weakly dictator winning and all the potential good leaders slaughtered, but I did.

 

With Jon dead this isn't viable.  And for the life of me, I can't figure out what they'll do next season if Jon is dead and gone.  He's been gone for most of a season before but there was always a bigger story going on in the South or with Dany and those stories can't carry the weight of the show alone anymore (because of prior lamented weakness of contenders for the throne).  They almost have to do a repeat of 'hey Zombies in the season finale, lets ignore the North next season.'  So I think season 6 will be transitional.  They'll be moving Arya, Sansa, Dany, and Tyrion around to set up season 7 and maybe check in with Bran the tree while Bolton rapes his way across the country side.

 

And despite not being able to picture what they'll do with no Jon next season, I think he's at least mostly dead and won't be around in season 6.

[AshleyN]

I don't believe for a second that Jon is actually dead and gone, but I do think it's entirely possible that he could be missing for a good chunk of next season (possibly the whole season, but I'd be surprised). Even in the books I've never been with the people who seem to expect him to come back right away. Mostly because Jon is pretty much the only person thinking about the big picture and putting the fight against the Others as his first priority, as well as the only person keeping a very delicate situation between three different factions at the Wall stable. Taking him out for awhile should cause the whole situation to deteriorate even further, which I've always assumed was one of the main reasons (in terms of the narrative at least) for his assassination to happen in the first place.

 

 

Honestly, Kit was pretty, but his acting was extremely limited.  Basically his best stuff was "look pained" or perhaps "look confused."  IF there is great stuff coming for him as AA, it would probably be better to give it to a better actor anyway.

Before the last season and a half or so I would have agreed with you about Kit, but I think he's done fairly well with his material since they've had Jon stepping up into more of a leadership role. I don't know if it's because he's grown into the role, or because you'd basically need a young Daniel Day-Lewis to find something compelling in a character who spent 90% of his time brooding, but I've definitely seen an improvement in him. I wouldn't say he's Peter Dinklage yet, but I can't say that I've had any real issues with his performance this season at least.

Edited June 16, 2015 by AshleyN

[HighQueenEB]

I'm with those who don't believe Jon is dead for one simple reason.  Recall back before the show aired season 1, D&D stated that when they met with GRRM to discuss bringing the series to television, he asked them one question - "who are Jon Snow's parents?" or something along those lines.  They answered correctly and the rest, as they say, is history.  If that was the one question GRRM thought these two needed to have enough insight and appreciation for the books to know the answer, then that tells us just how central Jon Snow is to the entire saga.  No way is he dead.

[jjjmoss]

 

He's been gone for most of a season before

When was this? Wiki implies the most he's ever missed of a season is 2 eps. That's...far from most of a season. 

[bunnyblue]

I'm still feeling down after the events of the season finale, so my speculation for S6 is doom and gloom.

 

Dany will probably spend all season as a captive of the Dothraki tribe. She'll be threatened with rape and Drogon will be incapacitated or will fly away leaving Mom by herself. With only 1 damn season left, she'll still be no closer to Westeros.

 

Theon will die from his fall and Sansa will be recaptured by Ramsay so he can continue to rape her and finally kill her. Brienne and Pod will be flayed when they try to save Sansa. The Boltons will continue to hold the North & Winterfell, as none of the Northern lords will challenge them outright.

 

Jon is dead. The Night's Watch will kill Ghost, if he's still at Castle Black. Davos will be imprisoned or killed. Melisandre, whatever.

 

Arya will continue her assassin's training after regaining her sight but Arya Stark will be gone forever. She's never returning to Westeros.

 

Tyrion, Varys, Grey Worm, and Missandei will not be able to stabilize Meereen and I expect at least 2 of them to be killed by season's end while the other 2 will run for their lives. 

 

Jorah and Daario will travel far but will not find Dany. Jorah suffer greatly as he turns into a Stoneman.

 

Cersei's Walk of Shame taught her nothing and she will be out for blood, with FrankenMountain reigning terror on King's Landing. 

 

Bran will still be underground talking to a tree. Maybe he'll solve the mystery of Jon's parentage but it won't matter one bit. Rickon and Osha: still MIA.

 

If even half of this happens, I will wash my hands of this show. I don't enjoy being emotionally beaten.

[InsertWordHere]

At least we have those lovable Greyjoy uncles and number one Dad (until Stannis burned Shireen) Randyll Tarly to look forward to /sarcasm

 

I mean, maybe Septon Meribold/ Elder Brother will be interesting?

 

Ah, screw it, I'm continuing my Manderly Watch 2015. Yay, cannibalism! 

[ulkis]

When was this? Wiki implies the most he's ever missed of a season is 2 eps. That's...far from most of a season.

He was in most of the episodes in season 2, but barely garnered any screen time.

[Hecate7]

So, apart from the obvious questions of where is Ghost, is Melisandre gonna resurrect Jon Snow, (Was she already putting the spell in place? Had she already discovered in the flames that she had the wrong man, before the fires started?) and where do Theon and Sansa actually plan to go, I actually am curious about a few things.

 

1) If Stannis is dead, and I think he is, who is next in line for the Iron Throne after Tommen, now that all of his siblings, paternal uncles, and cousins are dead?

2) What is Jaime gonna do now that Myrcella is dead? He's not going to just sail on to King's Landing and hand over her body to Cersei, say, "I'm sorry, I failed--here's the body. Oh, by the way, Trystane wants to live in King's Landing and be on the Small Council now."  Is he??? for that matter....

3) Will Trystane still even WANT to go to King's Landing? If he goes there, will he be arrested immediately and torn to pieces? Or will he get murdered on the boat and thrown overboard by a confused Bronn and Jaime? So many things for me to wonder....

 

There are going to be an awful lot of wights running around by the end.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Hecate7

[benteen]

Jaime being around for two of his children being poisoned...yet another example of D&D making him look bad.  Though I agree, going back to Cersei would be really awkward after that.

 

 

Dany will probably spend all season as a captive of the Dothraki tribe. She'll be threatened with rape and Drogon will be incapacitated or will fly away leaving Mom by herself. With only 1 damn season left, she'll still be no closer to Westeros.

 

Dany is in the same predicament in the books.  If there's no rape in the book, I guarentee they'll be one on the show because that's the only thing that gets D&D excited when it comes to storylines (ie The North Remembers).

[penelope79]

This post is going to be quite long, so I apologize with you all in advance.

 

I didn't read the books but I was spoiled on Jon's fate, as well as all the speculations about his resurrection. So, even though watching him getting stabbed hurt, I was still very much calm because just a couple of minutes before I saw Melisandre arriving to the Wall, a scene that assured me that all the speculations I read were probably true.

 

My mood changed as soon as I read Kit Harington's interview on EW. Rationally, I'm aware that spilling the beans right after the season finale would've made the final cliffhanger pointless. That's why I completely understand if Kit's been told to officially say he's dead dead or if the authors actually made him believe that he's gone -in order to avoid any leaks. Besides, this is probably one of the biggest question mark in the books and GRRM next installment has yet to be released.

 

That said, those statements really scared me. Because as far as I am concerned, I will never accept Jon Snow's death, if it turns out to be final. Not because I'm a KH's fangirl (he's pretty, as we all know, but I'm not) but because, narratively speaking, his death does not make sense AT ALL. As much as I was sad and speechless when Ned died or when the Red Wedding occured, I could still see the big picture: Ned Stark's death was the catalyst for most of the book/show's events, and the same goes for the Red Wedding, even though to a lesser extent. Heck, even though I saw many people disappointed by Twyin's death too -because he was an asshole but a brilliant one, it was clearly necessary and preparatory for the beginning of the Lannisters' decline.

 

But storywise, what would Jon Snow's death accomplish? Maybe I'm limited, but I'd say nothing. We reached a point where the story should start to be wrapped up hence his death, if anything, should allow or speed up the procedure, not creating new plots like Ned/Robb's deaths did. However, I think only Jon being revived would help wrapping up GoT, while his death would do nothing at all considering, again, that it would be too late to introduce brand new plots -and I mean plots affecting directly or even indirectly the big picture- or worst, plots that do nothing but leave loose ends around.

 

GRRM first and, subsequently, D&D taught us that nobody is 100% safe and we are now used to it. That said -no matter what people say about them ;) - I don't think they are THAT stupid. Arguably, they made some stupid choices but the overall story has always been compelling and logical, at least to me. In order to keep it compelling and logical, Jon Snow MUST still be around. He could die in the series finale, maybe, but not before. And I believe this is the route they are taking.

 

There are several reasons why I can't see Jon Snow being dead forever, even though most of them have already been mentioned:

 

- In a story where the characters cover all shades of grey and not only black and white, someone has to be "the white" = Jon SNOW. GoT is not the typical heros and villains tale, but it needs at least one hero who has to be pretty much pure at heart, and that's him. He's the only trope GRRM did not subvert, imho. He's been marked as the hero from the beginning, with him being the bastard son of a great man beloning to one of the greatest Houses, no mother, barely tolerated by his stepmother, with no real chances to shine in his life other than being sent to the Wall. Eventually, he even gets a couple of old, wise mentors (Mormont and Maester Aemon) and a sidekick, a brilliant one, the bookworm who brings the information: Sam. Like most of the heros we are used to.

 

- He did shine though, to the point he became Lord Commander. Now, he's basically the only one who knows how to defeat the biggest threat the world has ever met, the White Walkers. He's also one of the few people who have a Valyrian steel sword and the WW king, or whatever that was, seemed to recognize him as his equal. Basically, I can't see how Westeros can defeat the White Walkers without him.

 

- More and more, his character seems to coincide to the "ice" of the original title -whereas of course, Danearys is the "fire".

 

- Don't know in the books, but in the show they highlighted -twice- that Melisandre left Stannis and came back to the Wall. First, one of Stannis' men informs him she left and then we saw her arrive at the Wall. Again, I haven't read the books, but I don't see any other reason for her character to be placed AGAIN at the Wall other than being the one to bring Jon back to life. What would be her purpose, otherwise? Searching for protection? Well, the Wall doesn't seem to be the safest place in the world as far as a woman, even a powerful witch like her, is concerned. If she just wanted to leave Stannis, she would've left, period. Coming back to the Wall must have some other reason, included that she clearly saw something special in Jon at the beginning of the season. Shireen's death didn't help her father but it doesn't mean it won't come into play: her sacrifice has yet to repay and maybe will be fundamental to revive Jon.

 

- I completely agree that Jon needed to die to be free from his NW life. This season we've been suggested ad nauseam and more or less directly that Jon is essential to win the North back because he's a Stark, but he can't be a Stark if he's the Lord Commander of the NW. And of course, the Watch ends only with death.

 

- I'm not particularly fond to the idea of R + L = J, I still think Jon's character is one of the most important even though it doesn't turn out to be related to the Targaryens. It could still be true, but I'm not including this theory on purpose, because I believe there are already many reasons why Jon should not die, at least at the moment. Still, we have yet to learn more about his origins.

 

- I also agree that the audience needs characters they can root for or there won't be any reason to keep watching. Tyrion, Dany, Sansa or Arya are amazing but not enough. You can subvert all the tropes you want, but I still believe a fantasy needs a hero who wins over Evil, that the audience recognized and can identify with since the beginning.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting something, but it's ok. Hence, I don't believe that Jon will be dead "dead", I'm just afraid he will be. I had no doubts before, now I'm only doubting because of:

 

- KH's interview with EW, specifically when he said that he won't come back next year, that he's looking for movie roles and the little mentioning of a farewell party or something.

 

- Weiss repeating that they didn't want the audience to have any doubt about the ending and officially confirmed that Jon Snow is dead.

 

- When season 5 started, GRRM mentioned that the show would diverge from the books, and that -paraphrasing- "there are characters who are alive in the books who die in the show" and/or the other way around.

 

Yet, I think that all the above could have an explanation. I already said my opinion about the interview, KH not coming back next year could be a lie he's been asked to say, a lie he thinks it's true or a partial truth, like his character will only be brought back in the final episodes of next season.

 

As for the other two points, maybe it's a bit of a stretch, but I think that the official confirmation of Jon's death from Weiss could be easily seen as the death of Jon SNOW. Where Jon Snow dies, Jon Stark is born. "Kill the boy and let the man be born": that's probably what Maester Aemon meant. And this is not even a new idea, there are lot of similar scenarios in literature: even Harry Potter techincally "dies" in the final book and comes back to life free and able, once and for all, to kill Voldemort.

 

And on GRRM quote, I always thought he was talking about secondary characters. I really don't see how Jon Snow can somehow survive/resurrect in the books but not in the show. If he's dead for good on the show, than it means he was not that important in the books too (remember, GRRM said there will be differences, but they're both heading to the same place) which again, as I mentioned before, it's simply impossible, considering how his character has been depicted as the hero since the beginning.

 

So, all in all, I still believe we will see him again. Oh and yes, with Kit Harington's face.

Edited June 19, 2015 by penelope79

[Avaleigh]

Maybe they'll give Kit a different look when the new Jon is born. Maybe he'll get white hair like Bloodraven and Lady Stoneheart since contacts are a lot to ask of an actor on a series. 

 

The Shireen thing is really throwing me because in the books I'm assuming that she's going to be key to resurrecting Jon. I always thought that fire would be apart of bringing Jon back and that it would be similar to when Dany hatched the eggs but what if it's just like how Thoros brought back Beric only with Mel and Jon? 

 

Or what if Bran and Bloodraven help somehow if Jon is brought to the godswood of Castle Black?

 

If this happens I wonder if this is something that would be witnessed by other men of the NW? Either way I can't help but think that Jon and Mel would be viewed by the men as incredibly powerful and disturbing figures. Talk about a way to convert people though. I can see the men of the watch and the wildlings being totally on board with the Lord of Light after witnessing a genuine resurrection. (I can also totally see Olly having a scary crush on Mel only to end up getting his ass burned cause she likes to do that.)

 

Could there end up being parallels to the 13th Commander? What sort of person will Jon be when he's brought back? 

[magdalene]

There is one way of knowing whether Kit Harrington is really gone from the show. If he was gone now would be the time for his agent to aggressively pursue other work for him, another regular TV role, movies, etc. 

[benteen]

I hope Jon is ressurrected in the presence of the Night's Watch traitors.  They need to know there's going to be a terrible reckoning for what they've done.  Although they are likely to face death by White Walkers, death by Wildlings or perhaps death by the QUeen's forces in the book.

[nksarmi]

I am not at all concerned with Jon Snow being deader than dead. We all thought he was going to be resurrected anyway.  I'm concerned with them doing everything to convince us Kit is done.  

 

But I just don't get it.  If Jon Snow is deader than dead never to return,  that would a) be a huge book spoiler and b) make all this foreshadowing with Mel learning about the resurrections a couple of seasons ago and the Night King eyeing up Jon so freaking pointless.  Trolling in show is stupid and bad story telling.  And then there are the hints of L + R and that it might have been different than all have been led to believe and we know she made Ned promise her something - what was it? And everyone says Ned wasn't the type to break a vow to his wife, etc.. All of these notes have not just been hit in the show but hammered just this season alone.  It has to all means something or it's really bad story telling.

 

So why would they leave us all with the biggest WTF? of this series with this whole Kit is gone, gonzo, goneola crap?  Do they really think this is going to help sell books or get people to watch season six?  Do they want to sink their own show?  I really am baffled.

[jjjmoss]

He was in most of the episodes in season 2, but barely garnered any screen time.

Well that's not the same. Since the reference was "what if Jon misses a bunch of eps in S6 on account of being 'dead'?"

[Funzlerks]

I don't see how they could delay his return unless Melisandre takes his body away at the start. They should let Kit Harrington cut his hair just to mess with us. If Jon Snow is resurrected, where would he go? Winterfell or maybe Braavos, which is not too far. Would he just head straight east to meet with his aunt? Stop at Bear Island and recuperate? So many options to hide him away for awhile. I hope press is watching all the shooting locales for sightings. I need to know. It has been years or me.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Funzlerks

[Avaleigh]

I'm curious about that too. Even if Jon is resurrected, where does he go from there? It seems like the story requires him to stay in the North but then I wonder how he'll connect with Rhaegal? There's also Winterfell to consider. I have to think that he's going to go back there one day if for no other reason than to visit the tombs of Lyanna and maybe Ned. (I can't recall if Ned's bones make it back on the show or not.) Right now his best chance of a Stark reunion is likely to be with Sansa and it seems that the best chance they have of seeing each other would be at the Wall if Brienne thinks they can all make it there. If Jon stays at the Wall though then it'll almost be like nothing has changed and that his killing might as well have not happened. I feel like he has to move on I'm just not sure where. 

[Haleth]

I don't think this will happen but what if he is resurrected as something like Coldhands and becomes the king north of the Wall while Dany becomes queen to the south? Just a thought.

[Umbelina]

Yeah, and when they talked to GRRM about adapting the book and making the HBO show, GRRM asked them one question, "Who are Jon Snow's parents?"

 

Duh, he's important to the ending.

 

Also the "kill the boy, let the man be born" was a pretty laden giveaway. 

 

So, the show character list will no longer have "Jon Snow" because Jon is dead.  It will have ___ ___ instead, released from his Wall vows.

 

The biggest giveaway to me is the Vanity Fair Q&A, and the "That's not our concern." answer.

[Constantinople]

Not so much as speculation about will happen, but what I hope will happen.

 

I hope we get a scene where Cersei finds out that Tyrion is de facto Hand of the Queen of Meereen.

[bunnyblue]

If Jon Snow is resurrected, where would he go? Winterfell or maybe Braavos, which is not too far. Would he just head straight east to meet with his aunt? Stop at Bear Island and recuperate? So many options to hide him away for awhile. 

 

I'm trying not to get my hopes up of regarding Jon, but when I allow myself to hope a little, I go back to what Melisandre said to Stannis. She saw a great battle in the snow (that happened; he lost), and she also saw herself on the battlements of WF and the Bolton banners lowered to the ground. She didn't say she saw Stannis in Winterfell. Maybe it's a resurrected Jon Snow (with Mel by his side) that will march on Winterfell and he will be the one to defeat the Boltons? Maybe Mel isn't a fraud but is mixing up what she sees. So, if Jon comes back to life, maybe his first stop will be Winterfell. Unless the show wants to completely demoralize viewers and have the Night King resurrect Jon and have him fight for the WhiteWalkers. At this point that wouldn't surprise me.

[anyanka323]

I don't think that Jon is dead.  If he were actually dead, Kit Harrington would have some projects lined up.  Mel will have some role in his resurrection.  My guess is that we'll get some flashback relating to 'R+L=J' and then show Melisandre resurrecting Jon in the first episode.  He may not reappear until the end of the season, though. 

 

I am really looking forward to how the show handles Cersei next year.  Cersei is not a bit sorry for what she has done.  She'll want some revenge for what the High Sparrow forced her to endure.  If I were that Septa, I'd be thinking about a change in locale because she's also on Cersei's list.  She still has Qyburn as her loyal ally and he's not noted for his moral scrupples.  I wouldn't put it past her to crack down on King's Landing hard if no one stops her.  The other scenario is that Kevan and the others made a deal with the High Sparrow in exchange for her release.  In return for Cersei's release to the Red Keep, she has to be kept under house arrest there under the supervision of individuals who are not likely to let her meddle in politics or carry out revenge schemes.  Her and that Septa could be reunited in the Red Keep with the Septa as Cersei's jailer/babysitter. 

 

I do want some scenes where each Lannister sibling finds out what has happened to each other.  Tyrion learns about Cersei unleashing the Faith and the Walk of Shame from Varys telling him and Dany with plenty of wine. Tyrion knows his sister too well and that an angry, pissed off Cersei is not a good idea.  Cersei finds out that Tyrion is working to restore the Targeryans and has a wine fueled rant to Jaime or Qyburn about how he's a traitor to his family.  Jaime finally has it with her and decides to head to Mereen to join Tyrion and get a fresh start. 

 

I do think that Dany will be back in Mereen by mid season and on her way to Westeros with Tyrion, Varys, Daario, et al at the end of the season.  The shot of them on a boat heading towards Braavos or another of the free cities could be the final shot in the season finale.

[benteen]

I'm trying not to get my hopes up of regarding Jon, but when I allow myself to hope a little, I go back to what Melisandre said to Stannis. She saw a great battle in the snow (that happened; he lost), and she also saw herself on the battlements of WF and the Bolton banners lowered to the ground. She didn't say she saw Stannis in Winterfell. Maybe it's a resurrected Jon Snow (with Mel by his side) that will march on Winterfell and he will be the one to defeat the Boltons? Maybe Mel isn't a fraud but is mixing up what she sees. So, if Jon comes back to life, maybe his first stop will be Winterfell. Unless the show wants to completely demoralize viewers and have the Night King resurrect Jon and have him fight for the WhiteWalkers. At this point that wouldn't surprise me.

 

Also, in the show's version of the House of Undying, Dany sees snow on the Iron Throne.  Of course, that could just be to show that winter is coming but still...

[Avaleigh]

Also, in the show's version of the House of Undying, Dany sees snow on the Iron Throne.  Of course, that could just be to show that winter is coming but still...

The show version of the House of the Undying scene makes it seem like Dany will find her heart's greatest desire on the Wall. I assume that means Jon. 

[benteen]

The show version of the House of the Undying scene makes it seem like Dany will find her heart's greatest desire on the Wall. I assume that means Jon. 

 

Yes, that's right.  The Wall was in her vision too.

[Danny Franks]

The show version of the House of the Undying scene makes it seem like Dany will find her heart's greatest desire on the Wall. I assume that means Jon. 

 

The book version also strongly suggests that Jon will be important to Dany in some way, with the blue flower growing out of a wall of ice. So Kit and the showrunners can talk it up as much as they like, Jon's not dead. Unless the boners these guys have for Ramsay have taken hold of them to the extent that he's going to take over the role of 'Hero Named Snow Who May Be Legitimised'.

[J----av]

Jaime being around for two of his children being poisoned...yet another example of D&D making him look bad.  Though I agree, going back to Cersei would be really awkward after that.

 

 

Dany is in the same predicament in the books.  If there's no rape in the book, I guarentee they'll be one on the show because that's the only thing that gets D&D excited when it comes to storylines (ie The North Remembers).

 GRRM seems to have a far bigger boner for rape then D&D have

[dbell1]

I'm convinced neither Jon nor Stannis are dead. Mel will secretly bring Jon back to life and Davos will get Ghost and join them leaving the Wall for good. They'll head for Winterfell, since Jon knows all the secret ways to get in. Maybe they'll run into Bri, Pod, and Stannis on the road, maybe not. Or they'll meet up with Theon and Sansa.

Eventually Davos will find out what Mel did to Shireen, and one of them will die when he goes ballistic. Hoping it's a red witch.

[Avaleigh]

I'm surprised that so many think Stannis is alive. His story seems so complete to me. I don't mind the idea of him joining the Night's Watch but it doesn't seem necessary. 

 

Even if Brienne doesn't kill him he seemed pretty wounded. I feel like he'd barely survive a journey back to the Wall. 

[ParadoxLost]

I'm convinced neither Jon nor Stannis are dead. Mel will secretly bring Jon back to life and Davos will get Ghost and join them leaving the Wall for good. They'll head for Winterfell, since Jon knows all the secret ways to get in. Maybe they'll run into Bri, Pod, and Stannis on the road, maybe not. Or they'll meet up with Theon and Sansa.

 

I think Jon's body is likely missing at the start of season 6 and the leave it ambiguous on whether he resurrected or if they burned him.  I've seen some articles suggest they just skip the Wall for the next season to avoid the is Jon dead/ is KH lying about not returning next season issue. 

 

I think they will have action at the Wall.

- Like Bran, Theon and Sansa may go to the Wall to find Jon on their escape.  If Jon isn't there or is dead, they'll make it to the Wall without violating 'the no Stark reunion rule'

- There is going to be conflict between the Wildings and the Watch with Jon gone/dead.

- Ramsey is too close to the Wall not to detour that way especially if Sansa heads that way

Edited June 17, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Sunsetlament]

QUESTION:  If we know Valyrian steel kills White Walkers, and we know part of what makes Valyrian steel special is that it's been forged with dragon fire (just like the dragon glass), and we know the Iron Throne was made out of swords of Targaryen enemies that were incinerated by dragons ... then wouldn't pretty much every piece of metal comprising the Iron Throne potentially have the same "White Walker killing" properties?

[Haleth]

I think Murry Durry Durry's (whatever the hell her name was) statement about the sun (son) rising in the west refers to Jon.  I know a lot of people think it refers to Quentyn, but he flamed out.  (Hand waving that the Dothraki words for sun and son may not sound similar.)

[Danny Franks]

 I've seen some articles suggest they just skip the Wall for the next season to avoid the is Jon dead/ is KH lying about not returning next season issue. 

 

That won't work. I don't think even these writers could believe they could end on a cliffhanger and then not resolve it at all in the following season. All viewers would be interested in would be finding out what happened, and wouldn't be able to invest in or pay attention to anything that's going on in the show. Also, with the way they've been culling characters, just how would they ever fill a whole season without using The Wall? Five episodes in Meereen and five in Kings Landing? Good luck with that.

[ElizaD]

interview: Royce films in July and December. That made me think of winter at Winterfell, and a scene in the Vale with Littlefinger or maybe in the Riverlands if the Freys are part of the Vale/Sansa storyline.

 

I don't know the original source, but someone mentioned an interview where the showrunners supposedly say that Stannis and Myrcella are dead, Trystane is going to KL, Cersei might blame Tyrion more than Jaime because he's the one who sent Myrcella to Dorne, and Sansa/Theon survived the jump.

[benteen]

I'd just love to know how the hell Littlefinger is going to sell marrying Sansa to Ramsay over to Lord Royce.  Just how was that keeping her safe?  Royce has Robin Arryn in his care so he can afford to play hardball with LF.

 

Book Cersei would definitely blame Tyrion more than Jaime.  Although I have a hard time believing she wouldn't have Trystane cut up and sent back to Dorne in pieces in retaliation. 

 

Like I've been saying, they could set up something fun with King's Landing vs Meereen with all the Lannisters involved.  Like the last big feud between great Houses.

[Avaleigh]

QUESTION:  If we know Valyrian steel kills White Walkers, and we know part of what makes Valyrian steel special is that it's been forged with dragon fire (just like the dragon glass), and we know the Iron Throne was made out of swords of Targaryen enemies that were incinerated by dragons ... then wouldn't pretty much every piece of metal comprising the Iron Throne potentially have the same "White Walker killing" properties?

So the Iron Throne has to be dismantled in order to save the realm? I guess I could be down with that. 

[Umbelina]

QUESTION:  If we know Valyrian steel kills White Walkers, and we know part of what makes Valyrian steel special is that it's been forged with dragon fire (just like the dragon glass), and we know the Iron Throne was made out of swords of Targaryen enemies that were incinerated by dragons ... then wouldn't pretty much every piece of metal comprising the Iron Throne potentially have the same "White Walker killing" properties?

I thought dragon glass was just volcanic glass?  Looked it up.  I guess the small folk could be right though.

 

Dragonglass is volcanic glass, or obsidian. children of the forest make weapons out of dragonglass, including daggers, blades and arrowheads.[1] During the Age of Heroes it was also recorded by the Night's Watch that the children of the forest gave the black brothers a hundred obsidian daggers every year.[2]

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dragonglass

Dragonglass weapons are one of the few weaknesses of the Others. An Other that is pierced by an obsidian blade dies almost instantaneously. Obsidian blades are sharper than steel but far more brittle.[3] The Valyrians called obsidian frozen fire and made use of obsidian to make their glass candles.[4]

 

The smallfolk like to say that dragonglass is made by dragons while Maesters say it comes from the fires of the earth. [5] There are large deposits of dragonglass on Dragonstone and it is an important export from Asshai. Mors Umber wears a chunk of dragonglass in place of a lost eye.

 

According to GRRM, in the A Song of Ice and Fire series he has given obsidian,

“  “Magical characteristics that of course real obsidian doesn't necessarily have. After all, we live in a world that has no magic. My world does have magic, so it's a little bit different.[6]

 

As for the Iron Throne, I don't think it's made from Valerian Steel.  If it was, the stuff is so valuable, I think it would have been melted down by now by one king or another.

 

On the show, the Iron Throne was constructed by Aegon I Targaryen, the first king of the Seven Kingdoms. He made it from the swords surrendered by his enemies. Legend has it, it's made of a thousand swords that took 59 days to hammer out into a throne.

[Dev F]

interview: Royce films in July and December. That made me think of winter at Winterfell, and a scene in the Vale with Littlefinger or maybe in the Riverlands if the Freys are part of the Vale/Sansa storyline.

 

My new theory is that Littlefinger is going to take Winterfell by subterfuge and pretend that the Boltons are still running things, taking over for what I suspect would've been Mance Rayder's storyline in the next book. (After all, a lot of people suspect that Mance is the real author of the Pink Letter.) Maybe that's why they needed to kill off Mance for reals -- to make room for Littlefinger, the same way they killed off Ser Barristan to give his storyline to Tyrion.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Dev F

[Skeeter22]

I suspect they are just going back to Sansa and Littlefinger's original storyline. The whole point of Sansa in the Vale was to use Vale resources to take the North. I won't be surprised if they put Sansa and Littlefinger back together with little fallout from the Bolton marriage. The writers have gone out of their way to absolve Littlefinger of any wrongdoing with regard to leaving her with the Boltons.

[Lady S.]

I'm surprised that so many think Stannis is alive. His story seems so complete to me. I don't mind the idea of him joining the Night's Watch but it doesn't seem necessary.

Denial is always the first stage of grief. It's the Syrio Forel effect all over again.

[Avaleigh]

Denial is always the first stage of grief. It's the Syrio Forel effect all over again.

I've noticed many people have skipped straight to the anger stage.