Season 6: Info, Casting and Spoilers

[Boudicea]

On 5/5/2016 at 5:44 PM, Minneapple said:

On revealing Jon's parentage, I've always thought there could be a diary in the crypt, beneath Lyanna's statue. Or a letter from Ned to Catelyn, "to be opened in the event of my death," even though that doesn't seem like something Ned would do. I know Howland Reed will also likely play a role, at least in the books, but at this point I think it's unlikely on the show.

Though I dream of a Harrenhal flashback episode that shows the tournanent, and teenage Starks, and Howland and the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and Rhaegar crowning Lyanna with the winter roses. Then I think, no, they'll just muck it up, which is why I am trying not to get too excited about the Tower of Joy this weekend.

 

I think Jon will go South in season 7. If he goes South he would have to travel through the Neck, when he travels through the Neck he could meet-up with Howland Reed. 

I think the missing piece of the puzzle, or the piece that will prove Jon's parentage is Rhaegar's will.

It is customary for someone to make a will before leaving for a big battle or a dangerous mission. Robb made a will before leaving for the Twins, and before he could implement his plans for taking back the North. It makes sense that Rhaegar would have left a will at the Tower of Joy, with either Lyanna or with the Kingsgaurd. 

This will could state that Rhaegar and Lyanna was married, and that Jon is a legitimate heir in the line of succession. 

This will could perhaps be in the possession of Howland Reed. In the books Howland Reed will also have some knowledge of Robb's will. Or this will is in Lyanna's tomb. 

 

On 5/5/2016 at 6:34 PM, Chris24601 said:

So, I just had a terrible thought about who's on the crosses later this season (with two recognizable figures).

Its the Night's Watch.

Ramsey voiced his intention to go up there and murder Jon Snow, but by the time he gets there Jon, Sansa, Davos and the Wildlings will have already departed and Ramsey will NOT be in a good mood.

So its going to be Edd and some other recognizable member of the Watch (perhaps even Thorne or Ollie if Jon decides to spare one or the other for some reason) on two of the crosses while the other crosses are other nameless members of the Watch (I can see Ramsey making some snarky remark as they're set aflame about "making them the light in the darkness.")

And with no Night's Watch on the Wall (along the same lines as "There must ALWAYS be a Stark in Winterfell") the magic behind the Oath fails and the Wall comes down at season's end.

It'd be just like Ramsey to end up screwing over the entire world like that.

 

If Ramsay receives Rickon as a gift he will have less of an incentive to attack the Nights Watch. He might also hear about the Wildlings, and perhaps that would make him think twice about attacking Castle Black. 

I honestly dont think there will really be anyone important on those crosses. The crosses are obviously just there to intimidate an approaching army. It tells the soldiers that if they caught or if they lose they will end up in a similar position. The crosses are there to instill fear. 

It seems like we will know the names of two of the people on the crosses, but I think it will be completely unimportant characters. Or barely known characters.

 

11 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Sansa actually has a LOT to do just from what we know about. Known events at this stage include, arriving at Castle Black, first Stark reunion (with Jon) ever in the show, taking Davos into her service (we know he goes to Bear Island with her), sending Brienne on her quest to the Riverlands, departing Castle Black, recruiting Northern lords at Bear Island, meeting up with Littlefinger/the Vale army, The Battle of the Bastards, the scene with Jon, Littlefinger and Ramsey at Winterfell and whatever is in the finale. That's at least ten scenes and while some might occur within the same episodes others basically require them to occur in different ones (ex. she won't arrive at and leave Castle Black in the same episode, she won't arrive at Bear Island the same episode she leaves Castle Black, etc.).

With that much to do, the only episode I could see Sansa not appearing in is Three, but with literally every other still living Stark (plus young Ned and possibly Lyanna) appearing in episode three, I suspect they'll have Sansa arrive at Castle Black at the very end of Three just to complete the set. I think there's a chance Sansa pulls off a perfect 10 this season, if not it'll be 9 (I don't think its an accident that Sophie will also be getting a lot of additional exposure this year due to the upcoming X-Men film which releases in three weeks).

Likewise, if EVER there was a year for Jon to score a perfect 10 on appearances I think this is the year. A bunch of diverse plots and characters are congealing around him this year (in addition to the usual NW/Wildings elements, he's got all the surviving Stannis characters, Sansa/Littlefinger, Brienne/Pod, Ramsey and even Rickon intersecting with his location while Bran will be learning of Jon's origins), giving him more than enough material to give him a scene in every remaining episode.

My guess is that, per his desires in "Home" Ramsey will head up to Castle Black to try and kill Jon/recapture Sansa. Only they'll have already cleared out and so Ramsey instead takes out his frustrations by taking the remaining Night's Watch prisoner and later lighting them up before the battle ("make them the light in the darkness they always claim to be") to demoralize Jon. I suspect one of the recognizable figures will be Edd and another will be Ollie (because Jon will have spared him) while the others seen in the promos will have generic NW members strung up on them).

If this happens I think we can all blame Ramsey for what happens next... with no NW left at the Wall, the old magic behind the Oath will be broken and the Walkers will march right through. Ramsey will have doomed the world to a new Long Night.

I also think that Sansa will appear in 9 episodes this year, she was also in 9 episodes last year. Jon could potentially be in 10 episodes this season. It also depends on what happens in episode 8. Episode 8 will have the siege of Riverrun, it depends on if they will focus solely on that siege for one episode. I am not sure it will happen, I think it is more likely that the Battle of the Bastards will receive an episode where they only focus on the battle. 

I think the show could do better by leaving out Tyrion and Arya for an episode or two. Those two story lines have less happening then some of the others at this stage. But of course they will not leave Tyrion out.  

I am struggling to figure out what exactly Jon and Sansa will be doing. It has been stated more then once by Sophie Turner and Liam Cunningham that Sansa will have a big season this year and that she will have more authority. But now Kit Harington has also stated that Jon will have a big season this year, and that this season will be bigger then his season 5 arc.

Having Sansa and Jon together creates somewhat of a clash with what has been said. Which of those those two will really be in command, for example? How will the their duties be allocated?

 

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

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Is this all leading up to ArSan or something?  Why do the Faceless Men keep asking her what she thought about the Hound?

That final line sounds cool, but it's really weird to have Jon leaving the Watch having nothing whatsoever to do with the Boltons or his family.

 

Spoiler

- The mention of the Hound sounds just like a way to remind people of the existence of the Hound. In preparation for bringing him back. 

- I dont like the idea of Jon just leaving the watch without any plan or word from his family. I mean what is he planning on doing? And what will happen with his fight against the White Walkers? 

They have to be really careful with what they are going to be doing with Jon after the resurrection.  

- I would rather have like to see the ToJ in one episode. People focus too much on the fight, the fight at the ToJ is not the most important part of what happened there. I ve always thought that the important part was to establish Jon existence and that he was legitimate, therefore the dialog is really important. And obviously finding Lyanna in her pool of blood with Ned promising to raise her child. It is a fantastic fight and scene, but without any real context the fight alone might seem a bit out of place.  

[Boudicea]

1 hour ago, bunnyblue said:

Weird thing: Hours ago I watched part of Frikidoctor's video on my tablet and hit pause because I had to go do things. I came back to it a little while ago and the video is still on my tablet, even though HBO removed his video. So, I watched it again and took notes. I'll elaborate on a few things from the earlier translation:

 

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Castle Black: Mel tells Jon that the Lord of Light brought him back and mentions 'The Prince that was Promised' not 'Azor Ahai'. Jon is still disoriented and doesn't know what to think. Davos asks him if he remembers anything that happened and Jon says no, only that he died and can't explain why he's alive now. Down in the courtyard, the Wildlings are gathered and Tormund says they think he's some kind of God. Jon says he's not and Tormund jokes with him, saying of course he's not because he's seen him naked and no God would have such a small cock. Edd goes up to Jon and comments that his eyes are still brown. Jon says of course "it's me, do you want to burn me to prove it"?

TOJ: When Ned approaches the TOJ, Arthur is sharpening a long sword. Some detail on their conversation before the fight: Ned tells Arthur he looked for him at the Trident. Arthur tells Ned he looked for Robert at the Trident (this part makes no sense to me). Ned tells him Aerys is dead and asks Arthur why he isn't protecting his prince. Arthur says his prince sent him to the TOJ. Everything else is like what was already transcribed.

Vaes Dothrak: After Dany is brought before the Dosh Khaleen and stripped naked, she appears resigned to her fate and realizes she has much to learn.

Meereen: The 3 cities conspiring against Meereen are said to be Yunkai, Volantis, and Pentos. 

King's Landing: After their meeting with Qyburn, Cersei, Jaime, and FrankenMountain crash the Small Counsel meeting. After being questioned why he's there, Jaime says that as the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard he has a right to be there. (I'm really not liking Jaime's regression this season.)

Braavos: When No One admits that she was once Arya Stark, the Waif asks her who did she want to kill. No One says she wanted to kill Cersei, Walder Frey, and Gregor Clegane (Is this the same list she recited in 5x01?). Why don't you want to kill the Hound? I left him to die, is the reply.

Winterfell: Umber says that Lord Commander Snow has allowed Wildlings south of the Wall and that they will march south to Winterfell (how would he know that, if Jon doesn't even know that himself, yet?) and through his lands. He wants Ramsay's help. Umber will not kneel before Ramsay because look what happened to Roose after he bent the knee to King Robb (huh?). But he will give him Osha and a now older Rickon instead. Asshole.

 

 

Thanks for the better detail!

Spoiler

- That first conversation between Jon, Davos, Mel, Edd and Tormund actually sounds very cool. Is there anything more about the end scene?

- The scenario at Winterfell does not sound good. Even if you do not like the Wildlings, why would you give someone like Rickon away to Ramsay? Rickon is a potential boy heir, he is worth a lot to whoever hold him.  You can rule as regent through him. Also why go to Ramsay first, why not talk with Jon? It will be silly to mention the Wildlings marching to Winterfell before anyone at Castle Black has even mentioned it. 

These spoilers come in written form, so I really, really hope this is a fake Rickon. But that will properly not be the case. 

 

[CofCinci]

Wow.  Another Frikidoctor motherlode of spoilers.

Spoiler

Vaes Dothrak: After Dany is brought before the Dosh Khaleen and stripped naked, she appears resigned to her fate and realizes she has much to learn.

Of course.

[Chris24601]

4 hours ago, Boudicea said:

I am struggling to figure out what exactly Jon and Sansa will be doing. It has been stated more then once by Sophie Turner and Liam Cunningham that Sansa will have a big season this year and that she will have more authority. But now Kit Harington has also stated that Jon will have a big season this year, and that this season will be bigger then his season 5 arc.

Having Sansa and Jon together creates somewhat of a clash with what has been said. Which of those those two will really be in command, for example? How will the their duties be allocated?

I don't think it creates much a clash really... think of it more like a team-up with each using their respective strengths for common purpose.

Neither Sansa nor Jon is the ideal candidate to lead the North. Sansa is the trueborn daughter, but has no military experience. Jon is the military commander, but is a bastard. Together though they have BOTH the trueborn bloodline (and some experience in courtly politics) and military experience.

For that matter, while Bran is the trueborn son of Ned Stark and his eventual return will bring with it some much needing mystical insight (and possibly power), he can't completely fill the role either. Because of his injuries, he can't be the traditional military leader people look for their Lords to be (something Jon can do) nor is able to travel easily and he lacks any real skill in politics (both things Sansa can do) and very likely cannot produce an heir to Ned's line (also something Sansa can do), so even his return would not render their roles irrelevant.

In other words, NONE of the Starks by themselves can be everything the people need their ruler to be. Only together can Jon and Sansa and Bran actually accomplish the restoration of House Stark (Jon and Sansa could probably do it without Bran if they had to, but Bran's status as eldest still-living trueborn son of Ned makes things a LOT easier).

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Chris24601 said:

I don't think it creates much a clash really... think of it more like a team-up with each using their respective strengths for common purpose.

Neither Sansa nor Jon is the ideal candidate to lead the North. Sansa is the trueborn daughter, but has no military experience. Jon is the military commander, but is a bastard. Together though they have BOTH the trueborn bloodline (and some experience in courtly politics) and military experience.

For that matter, while Bran is the trueborn son of Ned Stark and his eventual return will bring with it some much needing mystical insight (and possibly power), he can't completely fill the role either. Because of his injuries, he can't be the traditional military leader people look for their Lords to be (something Jon can do) nor is able to travel easily and he lacks any real skill in politics (both things Sansa can do) and very likely cannot produce an heir to Ned's line (also something Sansa can do), so even his return would not render their roles irrelevant.

In other words, NONE of the Starks by themselves can be everything the people need their ruler to be. Only together can Jon and Sansa and Bran actually accomplish the restoration of House Stark (Jon and Sansa could probably do it without Bran if they had to, but Bran's status as eldest still-living trueborn son of Ned makes things a LOT easier).

This is mimicking the sort of crisis back in the days when the she-wolves of Winterfell had to decide who became the Lord of Winterfell, if they are going to win it, it will be a team effort.

So Arya will some how get involved also, since Rickon is a captive.

Also from the hints any mention of Shaggydog?

Edited May 7, 2016 by GrailKing
spelling

[Chris24601]

4 hours ago, GrailKing said:

This is mimicking the sort of crisis back in the days when the she-wolves of Winterfell had to decide who became the Lord of Winterfell, if they are going to win it, it will be a team effort.

So Arya will some how get involved also, since Rickon is a captive.

Also from the hints any mention of Shaggydog?

In order of inheritance currently its Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Arya. If Jon can be proven a trueborn son of Lyanna and Rhaegar, he'd be next in line after that (as the son of Ned's sister) until one of the others has a child (also any child of Sansa's would always be ahead of any child of Arya's).

I'd put a non-trivial chance that even if he returns, Bran will ultimately abdicate to one of his siblings due to a combination of his injuries (preventing him from fighting or producing an heir), his lack of political or military experience and his duties as a Greenseer consuming too much of his time for him to be an effective temporal ruler (he doesn't even have to go back to the tree for this to be the case). If he does rule and can't produce heirs the next sibling in line would be his heir and the Stark line would continue through their children.

Rickon is going to die by Ramsey's hands... he is the living embodiment of the Shaggy Dog story (no word on Shaggydog himself, but I'm betting he is NOT in captivity). This means that House Stark almost certainly continues through Sansa's line.

Arya I think will get involved by killing some of House Stark's enemies to the South and/or reuniting with Nymeria and Nymeria's pack. She is NOT a traditional lady and I think would suffocate in such a role. If she survives the series I think she'd more likely become some sort of sworn Kingsguard rather than marry some Lord and make babies.

Whether Bran abdicates or not, if Jon's true parentage is revealed I think a political cousin marriage will be in the cards to help secure the North. Due to Bran's injuries, whoever becomes Sansa's husband is will almost certainly be "Protector of the Realm" until Bran dies and/or her eldest son comes of age. As such it is in Bran, Sansa and the North's best interests that Sansa's husband be someone trustworthy and loyal to House Stark and not someone who might use the position to try and overthrow Bran so they can rule in their son's name (which is basically the goal of the Lannisters, Boltons and Littlefinger in using Sansa).

The best candidate for filling those criteria is Jon because he has familial love for both Bran and Sansa and has the military experience both lack and because his potential claim to the Iron Throne could be used as leverage with Dany to keep her from running roughshod over the North.

All of this presumes the ending isn't some sort of Ragnarok type event where the only criteria for becoming King afterwards is "he/she successfully led us through the apocalypse."

[WearyTraveler]

Spoiler

Well, since there's no mention of Shaggydog in the spoilers, that gives me a little hope that the boy the Umbers give Ramsay is not Rickon.  Probably not, but a girl can hope, right?

It would be a great way to fool Ramsay, the same way he fooled everyone else by suggesting to Theon that they kill the miller's boys and display their bodies.  Perhaps the show wants to sort of merge the Umbers and Manderly's plot by having both of them turn against the Boltons.

Or maybe we'll find out that Osha was extra careful by hiding Rickon and Shaggy somewhere else and showing up at the Umbers with some other boy, to see if they would, in fact, be loyal to the Starks and protect Rickon.

Probably too complicated... SIGH!

If Rickon dies, though, I want Shaggydog to go to Sansa and become her wolf.  She needs one.

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Spoiler

Well, since there's no mention of Shaggydog in the spoilers, that gives me a little hope that the boy the Umbers give Ramsay is not Rickon.  Probably not, but a girl can hope, right?

 

Spoiler

That would be as bad as Theon passing off two other children as Bran and Rickon.  Leaving any child to be tortured and killed by Ramsey would be horrible.  Unless they somehow get hold of Ollie and try to pass him off as Rickon. ;)  They kind of look alike, right?

Edited May 8, 2016 by Haleth

[WearyTraveler]

42 minutes ago, Haleth said:

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That would be as bad as Theon passing off two other children as Bran and Rickon.  Leaving any child to be tortured and killed by Ramsey would be horrible.  Unless they somehow get hold of Ollie and try to pass him off as Rickon. ;)  They kind of look alike, right?

Spoiler

Well, I'm not saying they are sending the child to certain death knowingly, only that they might be trying to fool Ramsay.  Or that Osha was fooling the Umbers all along, again, not expecting anyone to just flat out murder a child.

But, yeah, it's a slim hope.  I just don't want poor, sulky Rickon, who never did anything other than what he was told, to die.

Edited May 8, 2016 by WearyTraveler

[dargosmydaddy]

Spoiler

I'm wondering how the show might handle the possibility of FakeRickon... I thought Art Parkinson kind of hinted he'd be back on the show, and if it's him, then viewers know it's really Rickon. But if TPTB recast Rickon (which has certainly been done before with the younger actors), that could be interesting in terms of speculation of whether it's really him. So if it's a different actor, should we assume it's a fake? Are we left not knowing? (Of course if TPTB really wanted to mess with us, they could have Parkinson play FakeRickon...)

[GrailKing]

6 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

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Well, since there's no mention of Shaggydog in the spoilers, that gives me a little hope that the boy the Umbers give Ramsay is not Rickon.  Probably not, but a girl can hope, right?

It would be a great way to fool Ramsay, the same way he fooled everyone else by suggesting to Theon that they kill the miller's boys and display their bodies.  Perhaps the show wants to sort of merge the Umbers and Manderly's plot by having both of them turn against the Boltons.

Or maybe we'll find out that Osha was extra careful by hiding Rickon and Shaggy somewhere else and showing up at the Umbers with some other boy, to see if they would, in fact, be loyal to the Starks and protect Rickon.

Probably too complicated... SIGH!

If Rickon dies, though, I want Shaggydog to go to Sansa and become her wolf.  She needs one.

While nice Sansa's story revolves about navigating and succeeding through life

 

without magic, Lady's death not only could mean Sansa may no longer be a lady, or her ties to the North could be severed but also her ties to magic which the Direwolves represents

.

In the books Leaf a COTF tells us that there is

 

no room for magic in the realms of man, the giants will go, the mammoths, and the children themselves and so too the Direwolves though they will outlast them all for a while; I don't believe it's metaphorical to the Starks but literal to magic.

 

If this is somewhat correct then the Stark with the best chance of surviving is Sansa.

Except for Ned, Robb,Cat and Jon all died their wolves were near them or close proximity, Bran and Rickon still have their wolves while Arya has been separated from hers, if

 

shaggy dies it will not bode well for Rickon

and Ramsey and the North, hell most lords of the South know the Direwolves are Stark pets, and unlike Dragons where you don't necessarily need Targ blood to get close to them or ride them, you better be of Ned's blood if you are in proximity of one or be with a Stark to be safe.

Edited May 8, 2016 by GrailKing
spelling

[SeanC]

So, next week's promo (I'm sure I'm forgetting something):

1. Sansa and co. arrive at Castle Black (finally that debate can be put to rest).
2. Littlefinger, Lord Arryn and Lord Royce in the Vale.
3. More KL stuff.
4. Jorah and Daario head to Vaes Dothrak.

[Eyes High]

36 minutes ago, SeanC said:

So, next week's promo (I'm sure I'm forgetting something):

1. Sansa and co. arrive at Castle Black (finally that debate can be put to rest).
2. Littlefinger, Lord Arryn and Lord Royce in the Vale.
3. More KL stuff.
4. Jorah and Daario head to Vaes Dothrak.

1. Looks like she'll definitely meet Jon.

2. Oh my God, Robin's all grown up! Lord Royce looks pretty pissed.

3. Seems as if Cersei wants Margaery to do a walk of shame just as she did, getting some pushback from Olenna.

4. The Spain production featurette had shots of Jorah and Daario's actors sneaking around Vaes Dothrak. The big temple burning sequence is supposed to be from 6x04.

You missed Theon and Yara from the promo (5)--Theon is apologizing and Yara is chastising him--and Tyrion with the Masters (6) assuring them that Dany is coming back "Soon."

That's six plotlines right there.

Bits from the season 6 trailers we can expect in 6x04: Tyrion walking down from the throne to the Masters, Margaery comforting Loras, the High Sparrow reaching out to Margaery.

Very spoilery speculation about Rickon:

Spoiler

We didn't get the "Do you like games, little man?" line this episode, which reinforces my suspicion that the alleged leak that Ramsay kills Rickon with an arrow after releasing him to run to Jon is in fact correct.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Eyes High

[Audreythe2nd]

Quote

1. Looks like she'll definitely meet Jon.

Except he was leaving Castle Black at the end of the episode (not that he won't return... but it seemed a bit deliberate, that).

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, Audreythe2nd said:

Except he was leaving Castle Black at the end of the episode (not that he won't return... but it seemed a bit deliberate, that).

No, he was going inside one of the buildings, I believe.  He didn't even have a cloak on, he's not going anywhere.

Mel and Davos are still at Castle Black in 604-605, the latter being the same episode where Brienne gets a new mission, which means Sansa is going with other people.  After multiple episodes of the show building up Davos' newfound (and somewhat out-of-nowhere) status as the head of Team Jon, it wouldn't make much sense for him to just throw up his hands in the air and ride off with Jon's sister; and obviously not Mel, who now believes Jon may be Jesus.

[jjjmoss]

So do we think that Sansa and Jon are teaming up in the books then?

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, jjjmoss said:

So do we think that Sansa and Jon are teaming up in the books then?

Eventually, probably, but it obviously won't be anything like this.  Unless Littlefinger's plans kick into turbo drive I don't see how she could get to the North in time to be involved with whatever happens with the Boltons.

[Eyes High]

24 minutes ago, jjjmoss said:

So do we think that Sansa and Jon are teaming up in the books then?

Nah, at least not right away and not for an anti-Bolton coalition. I'm guessing that this was done in the show so that Ramsay is taken down by the Starks as opposed to Ramsay and Stannis taking each other out as I'm guessing they will in the books.

[FemmyV]

11 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

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Well, since there's no mention of Shaggydog in the spoilers, that gives me a little hope that the boy the Umbers give Ramsay is not Rickon.  Probably not, but a girl can hope, right?

So much for Shaggy Dog.

It seems senseless to bring Rickon back,

Spoiler

only to have him get killed off at the end of the season.

I hope he does something worthwhile this season.

[Bill1978]

They brought back and recast Myrcella just to kill her. And she didn't do anything worthwhile in her time (from memory). As much as I don't want it to happen, I can see Rickon being killed. Which would suck ,cause the death wouldn't really be for any other reason than for shock. We already know Ramsey is a psychopath, it's not like we need Rickon killed to show us that. Even though I considered Myrcella's death unnecessary I guess I can at least see it was done to show the craziness of the Sand Snake's plans.

[Eyes High]

Eh, if TV Rickon is killed, that means that Jon, Arya, Sansa, and Bran are more likely to make it out of the series alive. I'm not too fussed about Rickon dying so that the others don't have to, personally.

[Ambrosefolly]

5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Eh, if TV Rickon is killed, that means that Jon, Arya, Sansa, and Bran are more likely to make it out of the series alive. I'm not too fussed about Rickon dying so that the others don't have to, personally.

Killing Rickon wouldn't add anything to the story (like Robb's death did). Sansa, Arya and Jon are already is mourning a dead brother, killing him won't do much. All three of them are pretty fucking pissed.   They should have kept him off screen.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[Chris24601]

24 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Killing Rickon wouldn't add anything to the story (like Robb's death did). Sansa, Arya and Jon are already is mourning a dead brother, killing him won't do much. All three of them are pretty fucking pissed.   They should have kept him off screen.

The purpose to killing Rickon would be what it's always been... the heroes never go into the third act with a backup plan.

Rickon has always been the backup Stark and the easy choice for Lord of Winterfell. The Uncrippled (NotBran) Trueborn (NotJon) Son (NotSansa or Arya). The popular assumption for years has been that Bran will be a tree, Jon will end up either King of all Westeros or dying to save the world and Rickon can just slide right in to rule Winterfell all nice and neat and tidy... and completely undramatic.

Remove Rickon and the top candidates are a Bastard (Jon), a Cripple (Bran) and two Broken Things (Sansa and Arya). None of them is the ideal candidate to rule Winterfell that Rickon could have been, at least not on their own. So they'll have to work together to save their home.

[Ambrosefolly]

The Three Eyed Raven said Bran wouldn't be stuck in that tree forever, and being there "discovering his destiny" left a bad taste in his mouth. Neither Sansa nor Arya aren't particularly bad choices to rule the North and the show has said without the brothers, the sisters are incredibly tantalizing options, especially for any unmarried Lord looking to become the new rulers of the North (see: Ramsey, Tyrells, Littlefinger). They are as much of a backup plan as Rickon. If Jon and Sansa need to leave the North, leaving Rickon behind while they travel (possibly meeting up with Tryion and Dany or looking for Arya), would be a solution. Plus right now, Rickon is still a kid, if Sansa sticks around, she could possibly be the de facto Head of house Stark. Rickon being the Lord of Winterfell isn't the story.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Eventually, probably, but it obviously won't be anything like this.  Unless Littlefinger's plans kick into turbo drive I don't see how she could get to the North in time to be involved with whatever happens with the Boltons.

I think she'll get there not to fight the Boltons, but food and soldiers and aid.

[bunnyblue]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

No, he was going inside one of the buildings, I believe.  He didn't even have a cloak on, he's not going anywhere.

Mel and Davos are still at Castle Black in 604-605, the latter being the same episode where Brienne gets a new mission, which means Sansa is going with other people.  After multiple episodes of the show building up Davos' newfound (and somewhat out-of-nowhere) status as the head of Team Jon, it wouldn't make much sense for him to just throw up his hands in the air and ride off with Jon's sister; and obviously not Mel, who now believes Jon may be Jesus.

You're right, he wasn't going out the Castle gate in the final scene. But I wouldn't put it past D&D to have a mini time jump next week that shows Jon already departed CB. Gods help me if we get yet another Stark reunion near miss. There are not enough curse words in English or Spanish if this entire 'Sansa's heading to Castle Black to seek refuge with Jon' arc was just one big tease. I know what spoilers indicate but we've never gotten that definitive piece of evidence that proves the reunion happens before BastardBowl. We'll see...

[MarySNJ]

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Eh, if TV Rickon is killed, that means that Jon, Arya, Sansa, and Bran are more likely to make it out of the series alive. I'm not too fussed about Rickon dying so that the others don't have to, personally.

I don't know what to expect of Rickon's role beyond this point, although if he's got some important role to play in the fan-theorized Northern Conspiracy that may be developing in the book canon, I doubt he will be killed. That being said, I don't expect Rickon to be the end game Lord Stark. It seems like Bran will be the last Stark standing. 

I just don't want to see the kid (or Osha) being terrorized or tortured. If they're going to kill him on the show, do it quickly and relatively painlessly. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by MarySNJ

[Eyes High]

28 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

That being said, I don't expect Rickon to be the end game Lord Stark. It seems like Bran will be the last Stark standing. 

Judging from Bran's episodes this season, D&D want us to be absolutely clear that he's leaving the cave...which we suspected in any event, thanks to the promotional picture released a while ago of Bran trussed up in furs (as opposed to his "vision" outfit) atop a horse in the woods.

Going back to the books, Bran had the first POV chapter, so a popular fan theory is that he'll have the last one. I always thought Bran would survive the series, but I'm a little surprised that Tree!Bran is going by the wayside, myself; that was one theory I had believed.

I agree with Chris24601 that Rickon being around to assume the mantle of leadership for Winterfell is a little too tidy and neat, even given how young Rickon is in the books (he's five years old at most in the books). GRRM doesn't like things too neat and tidy in ASOIAF.

[Umbelina]

I'm kind of bummed about Rickon, if the arrow in the back story is true.  At least that would be better than yet another full season of torture by Ramsey, or a continuation/nauseous repeat of yet another Ramsey is sickening dominated season.

It isn't because I wanted a last minute Stark save by the dark horse kid, which I agree, isn't GRRM's style.  I just liked him from the beginning, and I was really interested in his travels, I wanted to know more of Skagos, and the First Men.  Between his temper and their history I expected the littlest Stark to become an interesting player, not the Lord of Winterfell, let alone the winner of the throne, but a bridge of sorts.  The connections he had as a Stark, along with the connections he made on Skagos (that are vast and rich in history) seemed to be leading to more than a quick death before Winter even comes.  We've seen and read a ton about the Sansa, Arya, and Bran training as preparation, but in the back of my mind, Rickon's was always going to be equally, if not more important.

We'll probably get it in the books, along with healthy doses of cannibalism, but (again, if his quick death is true) I have a feeling that GRRM just told D&D "Rickon doesn't make it" and they decided on this ending rather than include his story.

So?

Pooh.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Umbelina

[Oscirus]

To be fair, Rickon was never really important. We never followed him after he separated from Bran and now that we know that Bran is leaving the tree, he's not needed for the endgame. I doubt he's going to be tortured too much, because Ramsey's going to be too busy preparing to go attack the wall.

[Eyes High]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We'll probably get it in the books, along with healthy doses of cannibalism, but (again, if his quick death is true) I have a feeling that GRRM just told D&D "Rickon doesn't make it" and they decided on this ending rather than include his story.

Book Rickon doesn't need to die to be irrelevant to whatever happens with Winterfell. If Book Davos reaches Skagos and Rickon is all "Nah, I'm good," then he will be equally irrelevant to Winterfell's fate. I can easily believe that D&D would cut that in favour of TV Rickon dying dramatically at Ramsay's hands.

One thing I'm curious about is that TV Tyrion seems to be awfully chipper, especially given how unstable he is as of his TWOW chapter in the books (comes thisclose to killing Penny during a freakout, e.g.). We know he hallucinates Shae at some point during the season, which seems to suggest some sort of breakdown, and TV Varys ditches out on him at some point during Season 6 (possibly out of some sort of rift or disapproval?), but overall from the spoiler information available he seems to be pretty lucid and functional otherwise throughout the season. If Book Tyrion is on this big downward spiral, I'm kind of surprised that TV Tyrion is doing so well...unless Book Tyrion does snap out of it eventually and the whole Tyrion downward spiral goes nowhere.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Eyes High

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

I doubt he's going to be tortured too much, because Ramsey's going to be too busy preparing to go attack the wall.

If prepping for an attack on the wall is priority 1 for Ramsey then torturing Osha and Rickon will be 1a based on everything we've seen.  We may not see much of Rickon's suffering since on screen child torture is probably a no go for the network.  Unfortunately, that means Osha is in for a living hell that we may have to watch.

Also, Robb didn't deserve what he got but he DID break his sacred vow and made some strategic blunders that screwed the North.  Rickon is an innocent (just like Shireen and Myrcella, actually) so I can see them executing yet another person to show how horrible the world is.

[bunnyblue]

Speculation on Rickon's fate based on the Reddit spoiler:

The extra only said that Rickon gets hit by an arrow but he wasn't sure if Rickon dies. Until I see it on screen or we get a spoiler confirming Rickon's death, I'm hoping that Jon puts a wounded Rickon on his horse and sends him back behind the lines. The EW article said that Jon takes on a dozen men at once and gets pushed into the ground. Meaning he's no longer on his horse. Sure his horse could have been killed but I will fanwank it that he gives his horse to his brother. After Shaggydog's death, my mind won't allow me to think about Rickon dying. Sigh.

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

Speculation on Rickon's fate based on the Reddit spoiler:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The extra only said that Rickon gets hit by an arrow but he wasn't sure if Rickon dies. Until I see it on screen or we get a spoiler confirming Rickon's death, I'm hoping that Jon puts a wounded Rickon on his horse and sends him back behind the lines. The EW article said that Jon takes on a dozen men at once and gets pushed into the ground. Meaning he's no longer on his horse. Sure his horse could have been killed but I will fanwank it that he gives his horse to his brother. After Shaggydog's death, my mind won't allow me to think about Rickon dying. Sigh.

I also read a Stark dies

So the Karstark pulls a betrayal on the Starks, this has Ramsey rethinks his plan, causes jon to goto Winterfell, with the HBO spoiler ( my avatar)sees Rickon in a dangerous situation

could Sansa be the one to die? also a reddit spoiler

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

 

  Hide contents

I also read a Stark dies

 

So the Karstark pulls a betrayal on the Starks, this has Ramsey rethinks his plan, causes jon to goto Winterfell, with the HBO spoiler ( my avatar)sees Rickon in a dangerous situation

  Hide contents

could Sansa be the one to die? also a reddit spoiler

Spoiler

I don't think the rumour that a Stark dies was from one of the seemingly reputable sources, but in any event, Sansa shows up with the Valemen at the end according to multiple accounts and is present at Winterfell afterward.  I don't see how she could die.

[GrailKing]

23 minutes ago, SeanC said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't think the rumour that a Stark dies was from one of the seemingly reputable sources, but in any event, Sansa shows up with the Valemen at the end according to multiple accounts and is present at Winterfell afterward.  I don't see how she could die.

Yes she does, but she is

overlooking the battle, seems her flanked by 2 Knights match the three people seen in the upper right in the distant during the battle scene, so she sees what's happening with Rickon and tries to save him and is killed in doing so, but Rickon lives.

Ramsey and LF get screwed in one shot,just another twist for thought.

[Eyes High]

Spoiler

The alleged BOTB leaks both state that the Winterfell scene with LF, Jon and Sansa occurs after the Vale army destroys the Team Bolton forces. Sansa will survive the battle and make it to Winterfell. The only casualty of Ramsay's last stand at Winterfell after his defeat on the battlefield is Wun Wun.

[GrailKing]

I thought

 

that meeting was left up in the air as to before or after.

Edited May 9, 2016 by GrailKing
spelling,I'm a big I

[Chris24601]

Yeah, Sansa's not going to die, at least not this season (I think she's almost certain to survive the entire series myself). From a narrative perspective there's nothing to indicate she'll be dying soon and the notion that "Anyone Can Die" is a complete myth when you look at the actual statistics (if you're a minor character you're likely a goner, but the main characters of the series, particularly the younger generation PoV's from the first book; i.e. Jon, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Dany and Tyrion) have as good a set of plot armor as anyone else in a fictional story (Jon even came back from the dead).

Rickon isn't a PoV character and that's for a reason. He was only marginally relevant while he was traveling with Bran and if he'd never shown up again in the narrative, no one would have missed him except for the dangling thread that he comes before Sansa, Arya and Jon in terms of inheriting Winterfell, so him alive out there somewhere creates ambiguity for the eventual ruler.

In other words, Rickon turning up and being killed off is more about tying up loose ends in the narrative than anything else.

[Eyes High]

4 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I thought

  Hide contents

that meeting was left up in the air as to before or after.

Nope.

Spoiler

The alleged leaks say after. Only point of disagreement between the leaks for the WF scene was the manner in which Jon disposes of Ramsay, and whether or not Jon was smiling at Wun Wun before Wun Wun gets shot.

[GrailKing]

Just now, Eyes High said:

Nope.

  Hide contents

The alleged leaks say after. Only point of disagreement between the leaks for the WF scene was the manner in which Jon disposes of Ramsay, and whether or not Jon was smiling at Wun Wun before Wun Wun gets shot.

OKay

[Umbelina]

Question, since this is the spoiler thread, why is everything being spoiler tagged?

 

Thanks.

[GrailKing]

Just now, Umbelina said:

Question, since this is the spoiler thread, why is everything being spoiler tagged?

 

Thanks.

an abundance of caution.

lol, esp. since I accidentally put a book spoiler in a non book thread.

[Oscirus]

Sansa's not dying until she meets up with Arya since that's been the narrative since season 1.

[GrailKing]

28 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Sansa's not dying until she meets up with Arya since that's been the narrative since season 1.

This would make the story totally bitter with no sweet.

but it is hinted at .

[SeanC]

57 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

This would make the story totally bitter with no sweet.

but it is hinted at .

Where, exactly?

[GrailKing]

Just now, SeanC said:

Where, exactly?

In show, it's hinted with Arya hating Sansa and Ned giving her the Lone Wolf speech, and don't skewer your sister with it when he lets her keep Needle, in book it's also alluded to as GRRM said that the girls have issues to solve, also in book

Sansa is mentioned to run to Cersei, which the show bypassed

, though I have my version as to why she did,and others have theirs.

If Sansa mentions to Arya that info it could set her off.

I took the fights as sibling banter of two children who grow up and miss each other.

[SeanC]

I'm really not clear what you mean.  All of those things point to the siblings meeting again, not Sansa dying beforehand; as to the idea of Arya killing Sansa, the mere fact that Sansa's going to Cersei wasn't in the show would indicate that's not the case.  If it was that crucial to the outcome of the story, they wouldn't have omitted it.

[Haleth]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

We'll probably get it in the books, along with healthy doses of cannibalism, but (again, if his quick death is true) I have a feeling that GRRM just told D&D "Rickon doesn't make it" and they decided on this ending rather than include his story.

Yeah, I think it's a matter of the show writers wanting to tie up a loose end and get him out of the way so they can concentrate on other things like Tyrion's drinking games, regardless of what Martin has in store for him.

 

2 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

In other words, Rickon turning up and being killed off is more about tying up loose ends in the narrative than anything else.

Or what Chris said.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, I think it's a matter of the show writers wanting to tie up a loose end and get him out of the way so they can concentrate on other things like Tyrion's drinking games, regardless of what Martin has in store for him.

This doesn't bode overly well for his overall survival in the books, but it does seem like the writers are aggressively culling the cast this season to narrow the focus.