S05.E07: The Gift

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

 

Jon prepares for conflict. Sansa tries to talk to Theon. Brienne waits for a sign. Stannis remains stubborn. Jaime attempts to reconnect with family.

 

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into a potential spoiler you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

 

 

[loki567]

So that's about the second bad episode in a row.

 

Anybody what to keep up with the, "rape is good character development for Sansa," stuff? That all went down exactly as I was expecting, even with the nasty little quip from Ramsey.

 

Really beyond all the rape, I think my major issue with GoT's portrayal of women has always been more about cutting most of their characterization. They're either a victim, badass, mother, vamp, and almost virtually nothing else.

 

I hate Olenna. Very similar character to Littlefinger in the sense that all of her scenes feel like really bad fanfic.

 

Thank God for Jonathan Pryce. He is nailing this role. The character could easily slip into parody, he gives it the appropriate gravitas. 

[WatchrTina]

I thought that episode was stellar.  What a roller-coaster ride.  I was shocked by Sansa  calling Ramsey a bastard and shocked again when it was revealed that Reek betrayed her, the loyal old lady had been flayed and Brianne was waiting in vain for her signal.

 

Tyrion met Danerys.  Hooray for forward momentum.  

 

Cersie was imprisoned.  Hooray for what goes around comes around.

 

Sam the Slayer lost his virginity.  Hooray because the dude deserved a break.

 

Also hooray for Ghost riding to the rescue.

 

I thought the episode was made of win.

Edited May 25, 2015 by WatchrTina

[MarquisDeCarabas]

About fucking time.  I have to feel like the reason why it took so long is they were waiting for Cersei to leave the Red Keep and be separated from her guard.

[nksarmi]

My excitement that Cersei has finally been arrested and that Tyrion and Dany have finally come face to face it outweighing any horror I could bring myself to feel for Sansa.  Sorry if that makes me a bad person.

[Mya Stone]

DANY MET TYRION.

DANY. MET. TYRION.

I actually LIKE that Sansa wasn't reduced to the whimpering girl in bed. When they first showed her, I was terrified that that was all they were going to do.

The simple fact that she did not back down from Ramsey - she looked him square in the eyes and unflinchingly said her piece - I really appreciate that. She isn't merely a tool for Theon to remember his name. She's a freaking STARK.

[Avaleigh]

Loved Sam the Slayer in action.

 

Loved that Olenna wasn't able to pull off making a deal with the High Sparrow. Also liked the way they talked about their physical maladies. 

 

Love that Tyrion and Dany are finally in contact. 

 

Stannis is nearing the end. He's ignoring good advice from Davos and it will be to his peril. 

[magdalene]

Cersei, Cersei, Cersei. How does the saying go? Those who sit in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  I guess Cersei getting pawned was the gift Littlefinger was talking about.

 

Used to as I am to the glacial pace of the books I was pleasantly surprised that Tyrion met Dany this episode.

Edited May 25, 2015 by magdalene

[Spartan Girl]

My excitement that Cersei has finally been arrested and that Tyrion and Dany have finally come face to face it outweighing any horror I could bring myself to feel for Sansa.  Sorry if that makes me a bad person.

Save me a seat in hell next to you, because I feel the same way.

TYRION MET KHALEESI, BITCHES!! YAY!!!

[WatchrTina]

So when Ser Jorah came striding out with that helmet on to kick ass and take names did anyone else have a "Gladiator" flash-back?

 

When Sansa called Ramsey a bastard did anyone else gasp and think "Oh no you didn't!"

Edited May 25, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Pete Martell]

The simple fact that she did not back down from Ramsey - she looked him square in the eyes and unflinchingly said her piece - I really appreciate that. She isn't merely a tool for Theon to remember his name. She's a freaking STARK.

 

Given how irrelevant and poorly written the Starks have become, I'm not sure what that means anymore.

 

I found the Sansa scenes deeply insulting. Ramsay is a butcher with no control. He rapes and tortures women. The show downplaying this because they need to give Sansa some moment of truth in between more raping and brutalizing feels dishonest to me. He would likely kill her. He's not a brooding dark prince. He's a monster.

 

The show wants to have it both ways - victimize Sansa, yet occasionally give her some "bad-ass" dialogue to pay lip service to the idea that she's anything but a victim.

 

The other thing that I can't help wondering is if all the fans who said the story was only bad because it was about Theon's "manpain" will now be happy with the storyline because it's not about Sansa or Theon at all, and she isn't being raped for "manpain," but rather because she's a woman and she's there to be assaulted until someone comes to rescue her.

[jeansheridan]

Oh, I loved it!  Tyrion meeting Dany ...without all that other crap from the books--no starving, no other dwarf woman, no dead dog and pig.  That was everything.

 

I'm okay with Sansa's plotline thus far.  Of course she trusted the wrong person.  She was desperate and took a risk.  But at least she took a risk.  I am a bit frustrated that the old lady didn't light the damn candle herself however.  When the lady of the house is being locked up, seems time for the Bat Signal.

 

Also, I don't think of Winterfell being all that large.   Wouldn't a woman of Brienne's size and her excellent armor attract some attention?  Her sword alone is noteworthy.

 

Cersei was that slow in the book too. 

 

I did think Oleanna would have been more effective.  But the High Sparrow gave them an out.  Margerary can confess to lying to protect her brother most sincerely and hopefully get off with a flogging of some sort.  I don't know what would happen to Loras however.  I shudder a bit to think what they would do to him.  But unfortunately Oleanna pretty much confirmed that yeah, he sleeps with men. 

 

So glad Bronn survived.  I''m okay with that fakeout.  Plus, Bronn signing is always a pleasure.

[MarquisDeCarabas]

Cersei, Cersei, Cersei. How does the saying go? Those who sit in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  I guess Cersei getting pawned was the gift Littlefinger was talking about.

 

Used to as I am to the glacial pace of the book I was pleasantly surprised that Tyrion met Dany this episode.

I hope that's not the case because then it means that the High Sparrow and Littlefinger are working together, which really undermines what the High Sparrow is doing.

 

I suppose i can allow that Littlefinger sent Lancel to the High Sparrow thinking it might cause chaos, but to have the High Sparrow himself be part of Littlefinger's plans would be disapointing

Edited May 25, 2015 by MarquisDeCarabas

[jeansheridan]

DANY MET TYRION.

DANY. MET. TYRION.

I actually LIKE that Sansa wasn't reduced to the whimpering girl in bed. When they first showed her, I was terrified that that was all they were going to do.

The simple fact that she did not back down from Ramsey - she looked him square in the eyes and unflinchingly said her piece - I really appreciate that. She isn't merely a tool for Theon to remember his name. She's a freaking STARK.

Totally agree.  She showed a  lot of spine there.  And honestly, does Ramsey Snow think the woman who saw her father beheaded and her nurse's head on a spike is going to cave at seeing a near stranger's corpse?  I mean, yeah, she flinched as any human would, but that isn't going to destroy her. 

[WatchrTina]

 

So glad Bronn survived.  I''m okay with that fakeout.  Plus, Bronn signing is always a pleasure.

I'm more that okay with that fake-out, I'm wildly relieved.  Nobody is safe on this show so when he got cut by a Sand Snake, given their love for poison, I thought another shocking death of a beloved character was headed our way.  Glad that wasn't the case.  Could have done without all the tit-gazing however.

Edited May 25, 2015 by WatchrTina

[benteen]

"Your Grace, I'm Tryion Lannister."

 

Give the show credit for one thing...it took them less than five years to do something that's GRRM hasn't done in nearly 20 years.  Have Tyrion finally meet Dany.  Tyrion and Jorah's slavery is kinda being played for laughs but Peter Dinklage has been fun and I'm kinda digging them ripping off Gladiator for Jorah.

 

This episode had issues once again but the performance of Jonathan Pryce, leading up to Cersei's arrest really finished on a strong note.  He was great in this episode tonight, both with Diana Rigg and with Lena Heady.

 

RIP, Maester Aemon.  I'll miss Peter Vaughn in the role, he was fantastic.  Was glad to finally get an Aegon reference and the funeral pyre was really well done, though I wish they had included the information about him turning down his kingship.

 

Still not comfortable about the whole Sansa (and Theon) storyline although at least they have her being proactive.  Both actors did their usual stellar work though.  REALLY don't like where the Stannis storyline is headed and annoyed at D&D for pushing this final bit of character assassination on the character.

 

Sophie Turner REALLY looked like Karen Gillen in the bedroom scene.  Tommen really channeled Joffrey's voice too.

 

Jon is REALLY insane to leave Sam and Gilly there alone.

Edited May 25, 2015 by benteen

[Avaleigh]

I found the Sansa scenes deeply insulting. Ramsay is a butcher with no control. He rapes and tortures women. The show downplaying this because they need to give Sansa some moment of truth in between more raping and brutalizing feels dishonest to me. He would likely kill her. He's not a brooding dark prince. He's a monster.

I agree that he would likely kill her eventually but he wouldn't do it until he got and heir and possibly even a spare IMO. 

 

When Sansa called Ramsey a bastard did anyone else gasp and think "Oh no you didn't!"

Yeah, my mouth fell open for a moment. 

[Advance35]

So Tyrion met Dany.  The Showrunners will always be ahead of the game for me because they aren't making us wait forever and a day for that to happen.   GRRM has given the impression that the two won't meet anytime soon.    

 

What did Sansa pocket, was it a set of keys or a daggerish looking thing?  Whatever one says about the subject matter I am absolutely riveted during her scenes with Ramsay.  He is SCARY.   I couldn't believe Sansa was taunting him with his future step-sibling and his bastard status.    She did it REPEATEDLY.    And he's been visiting Sansa EVERY night, what happened to Myranda?   I'm always on the edge of my seat when Sansa's on these days.

 

LF was right in a sense, I get the impression Ramsay enjoys having a Northern Highborn Girl at his beck and call.   Highborn and Pretty and he get's to treat her like a chew-toy whenever he likes.   Though it'll backfire at some point since Sansa while shaken and traumatized want's out.  She's not finished, she may lose, but she's not finished yet.

 

Olenna and the High Sparrow.  Yikes Olenna, he's not impressed with quips or money.  He's a zealot.  You can tell she's at a loss as to how to deal with someone who isn't corrupt in the traditional sense.   Smart of Olenna to take her meeting with LF only after ensuring she has insurance should anything happen to her.

 

Cersei and Margaery.   Yikes.   Bad luck ladies and the scene with the High Sparrow and Cersei was dripping with menace.   I was on the edge of my seat during their scene as well.

 

Looking forward to the Battle of Winterfell.

 

Really good episode.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Advance35

[Pete Martell]

 And honestly, does Ramsey Snow think the woman who saw her father beheaded and her nurse's head on a spike is going to cave at seeing a near stranger's corpse?

 

No, which is another reason this story falls so flat for me. They're still recycling Joffrey scenes. Ramsay isn't Joffrey. He wouldn't care about intimidating her to keep her in line. He'd just gut her.

[HeySandyStrange]

The High Sparrow was the stand out for me this episode. I'm loving him, even despite his fanaticism, because he gives no fucks who you think you are or what your last name is. Take that, Queen Bitch Cersei!

 

Could've done with Sam/Gilly and Tyene's nudity quota, which both felt pointless and took away from the real action. Nice hearing Bronn's lovely voice, though.

 

Sansa had me on the edge of my seat with her backhanded smack down of Ramsey. I'm really worried for her, I hope Stannis can swoop in and kick Bolton ass before Ramsey tires of her and does something stupid.

[Pete Martell]

I agree that he would likely kill her eventually but he wouldn't do it until he got and heir and possibly even a spare IMO. 

 

I don't even know if he'd care about that. Roose would, but I think Ramsay is full of enough delusions and rage to where I think he'd just snap.

 

This whole idea that Sansa can say whatever she wants and get "awesome" speeches about his wicked ways in-between his torment of her reads like bad fanfic to me. And it makes her plot feel even more like filler, because nothing is going to happen until she's out.

[SeanC]

Winterfell Story Assessment

 

PRO:  Sansa isn't "full Jeyne", though I was never expecting that.

PRO:  This episode should at least shut up the "it wasn't rape!" people up, given that she's physically traumatized and locked in her room.

 

CON:  At this point it's pretty clear that the only thing Sansa is going to accomplish at Winterfell is to escape from it, which is basically total failure at her original objective.

CON:  While, again, maybe this could be revisited, there's no sign here that Sansa being raped is going to be addressed on any level beyond "Ramsay raped her, and she acts a bit teary, but she's a tough chick so whatever".

[benteen]

 

Whatever one says about the subject matter I am absolutely riveted during her scenes with Ramsay.  He is SCARY.

 

Yeah, I thought this too last week.  Show Ramsay is much less over-the-top with is villainy, often keeping you guessing how he'll react to a situation.  Leaves you on pins and needles waiting for his response.  Whatever the subject matter, Ramsay was scary in that scene with Sansa last week because of low-key he came across with his threats.  He didn't yell or snarl but leaves little doubt how F'd up he is.

 

Speaking of scary without being over-the-top, that's the High Sparrow.

[jeansheridan]

 

but rather because she's a woman and she's there to be assaulted until someone comes to rescue her.

Well, she did grab a weapon, but honestly Sansa doesn't have a lot of physical options here short of suicide (which was mentioned as an option for slaves--slavery or death).  She and Gilly are trapped right now.  Gilly probably ought to get her ass out of Castle Black and down South, but winter has arrived and traveling with an infant in the snow seems risky too. 

 

Sansa has always been in the position of needing to use her mind to get out of situations.  She is exceptional at enduring.  I actually don't see this whole Ramsey bit as repetitious for her, but as an extension of her survival skills learned at Kings Landing.  She isn't flattened by the abuse because she survived Joffrey (in the book she is hit a lot more than she was on the show). 

 

I doubt Brienne will save the day however.  I think she'll help in some manner, but not entirely.  And may most likely die for her efforts (just my guess given the actor's other role commitments for Star Wars).

[WatchrTina]

 

I suppose i can allow that Littlefinger sent Lancel to the High Sparrow thinking it might cause chaos, but to have the High Sparrow himself be part of Littlefinger's plans would be disapointing

Okay, I will admit to being a bit confused here.  I assume the High Sparrow has known about Lancel and what he did with Cersie for a very long time.  He simply sat on the info until Cersie, with her stupid need to gloat, delivered herself into his hands with no guards.   If that is so, then who is the "young man" that Littlefinger was speaking of? 

 

Perhaps Cerise's arrest is independent of what Littlefinger and Lady Oleanna were talking about.  Can there be another useful young man?  Or did Littlefinger mean to use the Lancel-Cersie info as a bargaining chip but Lancel and the High Sparrow just pulled the rug out from under that plan?  Color me confused.

 

ETA:  I stayed out of the whole "rape culture" discussion but so help me if that red bitch talks Stannis the Mannis into burning his daughter I will be FURIOUS.  

Edited May 25, 2015 by WatchrTina

[MarquisDeCarabas]

 

Jon is REALLY insane to leave Sam and Gilly there alone.

 

To be fair he left Ghost with them.

 

No, which is another reason this story falls so flat for me. They're still recycling Joffrey scenes. Ramsay isn't Joffrey. He wouldn't care about intimidating her to keep her in line. He'd just gut her.

He's crazy, but I'm sure Roose has made it clear that he has to produce a son with Sansa to secure the north.

 

 

Okay, I will admit to being a bit confused here.  I assume the High Sparrow has known about Lancel and what he did with Cersie for a very long time.  He simply sat on the info until Cersie, with her stupid need to gloat delivered herself into his hands with no guards.   If that is so, then who is the "young man" that Littlefinger was speaking of?

 

Perhaps Cerise's arrest is independent of what Littlefinger and Lady Oleanna were talking about.  Can there be another useful young man?  Or did Littlefinger mean to use the Lancel-Cersie info as a bargaining chip but Lancel and the High Sparrow just pulled the rug out from under that plan?  Color me confused.

 

Me too especially in the inside the episode D&D make it pretty clear the High Septon is sincere in what he's saying.  I'll guess we'll find out next week.

[Mya Stone]

Okay, I will admit to being a bit confused here.  I assume the High Sparrow has known about Lancel and what he did with Cersie for a very long time.  He simply sat on the info until Cersie, with her stupid need to gloat delivered herself into his hands with no guards.   If that is so, then who is the "young man" that Littlefinger was speaking of? 

 

Perhaps Cerise's arrest is independent of what Littlefinger and Lady Oleanna were talking about.  Can there be another useful young man?  Or did Littlefinger mean to use the Lancel-Cersie info as a bargaining chip but Lancel and the High Sparrow just pulled the rug out from under that plan?  Color me confused.

 

I think LF just knew that the High Septon had Lancel's information. So he merely informed Olenna of Cersei's impending doom, all while painting himself in the best light (like he had something to do with it, when in fact, he didn't). 

I could be wrong, but I don't recall Cersei with any other man on the show, so it would be cheap for them to tramp out a Kettleblack or something. 

[MadMouse]

Nothing says consensual like arm bruises. And who didn't see her rape being used as a way to motivate Theon. Terrible writing in Winterfell. Speaking of rape again why the hell did they feel the need to create Gilly's almost rape? And then to transition that into her sex scene with Sam. Who doesn't like a little sexual assault to get them in the mood. 

 

Shallow pig man time. Hello Tyene, completely pointless but oh my.

[Jodithgrace]

Re: Sansa calling Ramsey a bastard..I think that Ramsey has to be a bit "restrained" in his treatment of Sansa because she is his wife and therefore potential mother of his heir. He can't really torture her physically or starve her or feed her to his dogs, especially with Dad looking on. Of course he is cruel to her because that is his nature, but he can't treat her like his other disposable women. If escape or rescue doesn't happen, perhaps she will get pregnant quickly. Pregnancy bores Ramsey, but he can't do anything to jeopardize an heir which would help cement his claim to Winterfell, so hopefully he would just leave her alone. Alas, given that he is a psychopath, he might not be able to help himself. Sansa picked something up off the ramparts, but I didn't see what it was. hopefully it will be something she can use to escape. 

 

Of course, one of the most horrifying things in the books, to me, was that story about the wife who starved (and tried to eat her own fingers) so perhaps I am being a bit too hopeful about Ramsey or Dad having any restraint whatsoever, heir or no heir. (shudders)

 

Good for Sam. I hope he gets Gilly out of there though..he can't go on having to defend her honor every five minutes.

 

So cool having Dany meet Tyrion..we are now officially in uncharted territory. 

[jeansheridan]

I've given up trying to understand Littlefinger's plots.  Partially because I suspect the writers keep him in reserve if they need a plot push or something adjusted.  It's probably useful to have a semi-powerful, overtly manipulative character with no solo storyline to drop into plot when needed.  Varys is a bit that way too.  Need someone to rescue Tyrion?  Varys to the rescue! 

 

Onto the shallow, I'm kind of digging the "new" Daario.  I know he's been around for two seasons now, but his swagger is quite lovely and I  think he gives Dany good and sincere advice.  He reminds me of a younger, brunette Jaime.  I hope he and Tyrion get on like gangbusters.

[stagmania]

Nothing says consensual like arm bruises. And who didn't see her rape being used as a way to motivate Theon. Terrible writing in Winterfell. Speaking of rape again why the hell did they feel the need to create Gilly's almost rape? And then to transition that into her sex scene with Sam. Who doesn't like a little sexual assault to get them in the mood. 

 

Thank you! That bothered me so much. I'm supposed to believe a woman who was just threatened with sexual violence is going to suddenly want sex a few minutes later?

[magdalene]

Stannis is going to burn his own daughter to death, isn't he? Any half-way decent father wouldn't even be conflicted about this.  

[Avaleigh]

Other thoughts:

 

I liked Olenna telling the HS that he's dull. He almost seemed amused like he knows it. She was so frustrated when she realized that she couldn't buy him off.

 

Myrcella is talking to Jaime like he was some neglectful father only she's not supposed to know he's her father so the scene felt weird to me. I also thought it was odd that she seems to blame Cersei for why she was sent to Dorne in the first place and that couldn't be further from the truth. 

 

I liked the scene with Cersei and Tommen and feel bad for Tommen because he's separated from everyone now. His wife and mother are in jail, father dead, other father/uncle imprisoned in Dorne, sister in Dorne, Kevan's at Casterly Rock, cousin aligned with the Faith, etc.  Olenna should really try to jump in and fill that vacuum IMO. 

 

I'd like to hear some reflection from Jorah on how it feels to be a slave and if he still feels the same way about what he did and why he did it.

Yeah, I thought this too last week.  Show Ramsay is much less over-the-top with is villainy, often keeping you guessing how he'll react to a situation.  Leaves you on pins and needles waiting for his response.  Whatever the subject matter, Ramsay was scary in that scene with Sansa last week because of low-key he came across with his threats.  He didn't yell or snarl but leaves little doubt how F'd up he is.

 

Speaking of scary without being over-the-top, that's the High Sparrow.

I got chills in the scene with the High Sparrow. He knows how to do that! I felt the same way when I first got the impression that he already knew about Cersei and Lancel I can't remember which episode it was now. Maybe the second one where he appears. 

[Tryangle]

Gonna miss Aemon, although I knew it was on the cards. Guess the sail to Oldtown via Braavos isn't going to happen?

 

Sam gets 'some', in an unconventional fashion. Gilly cleaned him up pretty well, looked like half his front teeth were dislodged in that brawl.

[thegriswolds]

I don't even know if he'd care about that. Roose would, but I think Ramsay is full of enough delusions and rage to where I think he'd just snap.

 

This whole idea that Sansa can say whatever she wants and get "awesome" speeches about his wicked ways in-between his torment of her reads like bad fanfic to me. And it makes her plot feel even more like filler, because nothing is going to happen until she's out.

I think Sansa felt safe in her speech to Ramsay because she assumed she would be getting rescued and was on her way out.  Of course she found out moments later she was sadly mistaken.  

[Pete Martell]

Sansa has always been in the position of needing to use her mind to get out of situations.  She is exceptional at enduring.  I actually don't see this whole Ramsey bit as repetitious for her, but as an extension of her survival skills learned at Kings Landing.  She isn't flattened by the abuse because she survived Joffrey (in the book she is hit a lot more than she was on the show). 

 

To me if the story were about her survival skills, she would do what she did most of her time at King's Landing - she would lie and hide her true emotions. That was painful to watch, but it made the struggles more believable for me. 

 

They don't want to have her do that here, because then they would be more honest about the situation she's in (a woman who has no allies, no path forward, whose only value is as a brood mare to true evil), so they have her in the same situations she was in with Joffrey (taunting her, killing an older woman who wants to help her), only with added "strong" speeches to break up the torture and rape.

 

I can't help comparing these scenes to the scene at the end of season 1 where she was so numbed and so full of rage that she insulted Joffrey and nearly pushed him off the parapet. 

 

That Sansa was someone I could truly believe and understand.

 

This Sansa feels like a hollow shell to me, a plaything of writers who only care about how many times they can victimize her and how cynically they can pass off rape and assault as some form of empowerment.

[jeansheridan]

Stannis is going to burn his own daughter to death, isn't he? Any half-way decent father wouldn't even be conflicted about this.  

I don't think so.  I think he sends her way with Davos.  And Davos and Shireen end up where Rickon is because they need to get to a large castle quickly and safely.  Some place where Shireen can be hidden if her father loses.  I think burning his daughter is a bridge too far for Stannis.  I really do. 

[Pete Martell]

He's crazy, but I'm sure Roose has made it clear that he has to produce a son with Sansa to secure the north.

 

I'm sure Roose has, but I don't even see Ramsay as crazy as much as I see him as pure malevolence. He also has huge daddy issues and needs to prove he's stronger than his father. I don't think the restraints are in place for him that were there for Joffrey. So seeing these recycled Joffrey scenes really dishearten me.

[CherryMalotte]

Ohhhhhh yeah!  Now that was fun!

 

Okay, so Sansa being bruised up and raped by Ramsay every night, that's not fun.  I do like that even despite what humiliations and abuses Ramsay is going to put her way that she will still keep a sliver of hope alive.  That did look like keys there that she scooped up.  Sansa if nothing else after putting up with Joffrey and the terrors at King's Landing and nearly being thrown out the Mood Door by her aunt has learned strength.  She'll need it.  

 

I'm very happy that Tyrion and Dani are face to face as well.  I love the books, but there's some dithering, and these two meeting now feels right.  I can't wait to hear what Tyrion has to say to her.  Iain just killed it again with his acting.  

 

Rigg and Pryce are a joy to behold.  Oh yeah, I'm feeling the frost from the High Sparrow as well.  I'm beyond happy to see Cersei get her freedom clipped - she's got nobody to blame but herself for her bad decisions in child rearing and government.  

 

I have to wonder if Baelish is going to be returning to the Vale soon.  I would sure get out of King's Landing if I were him, and wait out what's happening in the snow of the North. Sansa is another pawn of his but it's a pawn he has a strong attraction to, and I can't think he'd be happy if he knew how Ramsay is treating her.      

Edited May 25, 2015 by CherryMalotte

[benteen]

When Melisandre talked about how her prophecies have been right, I kept expecting Stannis to yell "Balon Greyjoy is still alive, you twit!"

 

So, with Cersei locked up, the Small Council is down to Pycelle and Qyburn.  I'm curious if we'll get a scene between those two.  Not exactly Littlefinger and Varys.  Wonder if Kevan is going to be called back into town now.

[Winnief]

My initial reaction here is that despite disliking Dorne, (though Bronn does have a great voice,) and still being ambivalent at best about Sansa's storyline, I'm dancing with glee because.

 

a. Cersei getting hoisted on her own petard.  Frankly it feels even more satisfying than it did in the books because Headey and Price were so dynamite together.

 

b.  Tyrion meeting Dany.  My jaw literally dropped when I realized they were letting it happen so early this season-I thought for sure we couldn't expect it until episode 9, and this is something we've all been waiting for since Season 1...or really Book One.

[Pogojoco]

Sansa's got bruises on her arms and told Theon Ramsey visits every night to "hurt" her. It was never going to go full Jeyne, but it looks rough. Though I'm against her being in Winterfell and being married to this asshole, I did love the scene between her and Theon in the beginning. Her insisting that he is Theon Greyjoy. I hope the show plays up their connection and hooks it back to the Starks who have died (Robb and Ned and Catelyn). Theon's admission in ADWD that he should've died with Robb was a big thing for him. And yeah, Sansa looked gorgeous (minus the bruising.) 

 

Aemon dying at Castle Black is another change. I don't know if Sam is going to get sent away, but I hope he is. Jon Snow shipping all his friends off is a precursor to him getting stabbed. And Sam isn't doing that much at Castle Black. 

 

But yay, Tyrion meets Dany (in a fabulous dress). And Cersei getting arrested is pretty awesome, if only to wipe that smug looks off her face. Yay, Bronn singing- but not dying!!!!  

 

Shut up, Myrcella. 

Edited May 25, 2015 by Pogojoco

[jeansheridan]

 

This Sansa feels like a hollow shell to me, a plaything of writers who only care about how many times they can victimize her and how cynically they can pass off rape and assault as some form of empowerment.

If the writers had not brought Sansa to Winterfell, what would have done with her this season?  Or would you have just kept her engaged to Ramsey indefinitely?  I'm wondering how you would rewrite it?  Sincerely curious since you do make good points.  I don't agree with them clearly, but you've thought them out.

[Tryangle]

Nothing says consensual like arm bruises. And who didn't see her rape being used as a way to motivate Theon. Terrible writing in Winterfell. Speaking of rape again why the hell did they feel the need to create Gilly's almost rape? And then to transition that into her sex scene with Sam. Who doesn't like a little sexual assault to get them in the mood. 

 

 

Thank you! That bothered me so much. I'm supposed to believe a woman who was just threatened with sexual violence is going to suddenly want sex a few minutes later?

 

Reminds me of the scene where Shae tells Tyrion something similar about Tysha.

[LisaBLingLing]

Okay, I will admit to being a bit confused here.  I assume the High Sparrow has known about Lancel and what he did with Cersie for a very long time.  He simply sat on the info until Cersie, with her stupid need to gloat, delivered herself into his hands with no guards.   If that is so, then who is the "young man" that Littlefinger was speaking of? 

 

 

Are we allowed to speculate in this thread?  If so - Gendry?  Surely he's had time to row himself back to King's Landing by now.  

 

Tommen - Dude, you have soldiers at your command, you want your wife back?  Send them in.  

[Skeeter22]

Aren't Roose and Ramsay under the impression that Littlefinger is coming back with an army from the Vale? Why is Roose allowing Ramsay to keep her prisoner? It didn't make sense when it happened to Jeyne and it makes even less sense when it's Sansa. Does Roose think this won't jeopardize his relationship with the Vale?

How can D&D say they love this Winterfell story when they've taken all the intrigue and tension out, and only kept the abused girl?

[SeanC]

 I don't know if Sam is going to get sent away, but I hope he is. 

Sam and Gilly's leaving the Wall could hardly be more heavily foreshadowed at this point.

[Pete Martell]

If the writers had not brought Sansa to Winterfell, what would have done with her this season?  Or would you have just kept her engaged to Ramsey indefinitely?  I'm wondering how you would rewrite it?  Sincerely curious since you do make good points.  I don't agree with them clearly, but you've thought them out.

 

I would have had her slowly usurp Littlefinger's power and then kill him, as beyond plot device status he serves no purpose and I cringe every time he opens his mouth this season. 

 

I'd rather have seen her offcamera like Bran than see her reduced to a role of a woman who is raped and beaten every night but gets a pat on the head from D&D because she gets in a few digs before the latest violation.

[trif]

I think LF just knew that the High Septon had Lancel's information. So he merely informed Olenna of Cersei's impending doom, all while painting himself in the best light (like he had something to do with it, when in fact, he didn't). 

I could be wrong, but I don't recall Cersei with any other man on the show, so it would be cheap for them to tramp out a Kettleblack or something. 

 

I thought maybe he was talking about bringing Olyvar to Olenna. If so, Olyvar might somehow know that the High Sparrow was going to move on Cersei.  I don't really think the Sparrows would lose track of Olyvar like that, though.

[Winnief]

Sam and Gilly's leaving the Wall could hardly be more heavily foreshadowed at this point.

 

I'm praying they take Shireen with them.  DO NOT LET MEL BURN SHIREEN!!!  But yeah, Sam and Gilly are headed to Oldtown...hopefully that will work out better than Jaime and Bronn in Dorne. 

 

On another note, I must say that Johnathon Pryce has been another casting coup.  The High Sparrow *could* have been a 2-D caricature but he gives the role its proper gravitas and his scenes with Diana and Lena were magnetic.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Winnief