S07.E07: Family Matters

[LotusFlower]

Sonja has many, many businesses. I'm sure she's at the corporate headquarters of one of them and working thru the weekend. You don't amass her wealth and extraordinary business success by taking the weekend off.

Guys - it's Memorial Day weekend. She's overseeing a Sonja in the City event. Or two or three. Duh.

[sasha206]

Missing a deadline is not that big a deal.  A good editor knows the writer he or she is working with and will usually build in cushion time when they issue deadlines.  I'm a rank nobody and I missed the deadline on my second book.  My editor's reaction at the time was about the same as Carole's: he made stern and displeased noises, but gave an ultimate okay.  With someone of Carole's stature -- a moneymaker -- even more slack is given.

 

Kennedy had more than one rocking chair.  Three of them were sold I that auction.  One, Anthony's, sold for $442,500; one sold for $453,500; one sold for $23,000.  Before I embarked on my own home renovation, I would've said that $442,000 is more than enough to renovate a home.  But, while I've been sadly relieved of that happy delusion, I can still say it's plenty to be getting on with.

 

Yeah, if I were holding onto a chair that could net me that in an auction, it would be gone.  I don't fault them for selling at all.  I personally would get rid of the couch too...just not my style.  I will say, I LOVE Carole's apartment.  It is incredible.  

[ScoobieDoobs]

Missing a deadline is not that big a deal.

 

No kidding.  Except that wasn't the point of that scene (a few eps back) at all.  NOT.  AT.  ALL.  Her editor looked like a sensible woman -- not the type to waste her time getting angry over trivial crap.  She looked pissed that Carole put her in a position she has to be a task-master with her.  By her own admission, Carole said her work ethic now really stinks.  So she likely has missed a helluva lot more than just one deadline.  She's surely missed several deadlines & also by her own admission she ONLY returns her editor's calls when she feels like it -- which sounds like never.  Interesting way to treat your supervisor/manager -- which her editor essentially is.  Given that she's not allowed to write her Bravo blogs until she meets the deadlines she's obligated to finish, we can assume her publisher is not letting her get away with this bullshit.

 

Hmmm, but what about Bethenny & what Bravo & Satan Andy are her letting her get away with?  I was extremely annoyed when I saw Bethenny say to the camera, there is no choice between her daughter & work obligations.  Well, that is, if she's obligated to go those meetings, parties, lunches, dinners, events for the show for that freakin' million bucks.  Maybe she's not.  Lucky her, if that's her deal.  I've been working in the corporate world for nearly 20 years & I've seen soooo many women struggle with child care concerns.  None of them could casually blow off work obligations the way Satan Andy & Bravo seem be just fine & dandy to let Bethenny do, all while paying her a million bucks to do it.  Yeah, Bethenny, you're really relatable to viewers.

 

Lu's daughter getting in at Art Basel is pretty huge. Luann should be proud.

 

I think someone mentioned somewhere that her painting was exhibited in a tent sorta off from the main part of the fair.  Don't know if this true or not, but I'm impressed she had any part of Art Basel -- whatever it was, cuz this is considered extremely prestigious in the art world -- particularly in NYC.  Even tho it's in Miami, for an artist to say they've exhibited in Art Basel is a great selling point for the galleries in NYC.

 

Anyone take a good look at Victoria's self-portrait?  I thought it was really quite good.  We've only seen Victoria for a few moments at a time, but when we have, she always seemed so sad.  I never ever saw that girl smile.  She had the exact same sad expression in her self-portrait.  She is clearly a talented artist.

[Petunia13]

I think Victoria is extremely talented and has some compelling elements and a daring eye. I really liked her piece last year that was on the show it has a bit of Dali and touch of David Lynch to it. A mix of beautiful, grotesque, and absurd.

I'm terrible but I don't like Carole's apartment's decor and hate the floating stairs. The home looks very decorated and staged to me. The hallway is fantastic though. The bedroom looks like a high end boutique hotel room.

[lunastartron]

Carole is a proven seller in the context of her memoir, but not for Holt, with whom she signed the deal that encompasses WG and the non-fiction title on which she's currently working. Scribner published What Remains. WG hasn't yet approached recouping its advance in domestic sales, has it (earnest question; the last tally I looked at for books sold was about a year ago, and it was still in four figures)? . . . I'm a huge fan of Carole's living room and adore the sofa that Lee gifted her as well as the peridot tones of the redecoration. But, yeah, I've never dug the floating staircase or the bedroom suite presentation, and I don't think I'd personally enjoy living in a space that was dominated disproportionately by the parlor . . . I've thought that Victoria is talented ever since her garage show where she displayed the tribalesque ink compositions of skulls and such. There's an undertone of the grotesque and sinister to her work but it manages to remain aesthetically pleasing and the tension therein is compelling.

[MatildaMoody]

Can someone clarify the floating stair case for me? The last time I payed attention it looked like Carole had a railing alongside the wall of her stair case. Has that been removed? I know there isn't a railing on the outside of her stairs, but has she also removed the other hand rail? Because that would seem ultra dangerous to me.

Edited May 25, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[aradia22]

If there was any question of Bethenny being my favorite she sealed it this episode calling out Heather on her "Hi, Mama" crap.

 

What are you talking about Kristen? Bethenny is going through a divorce. It's important for her to spend the time with Brynn that she can. I'm sure she can afford some child care option but why would she want to prioritize spending time with you weirdos? As for the show, they basically let her film all the solo stuff she wants so that's not an issue.

 

I get not wanting to ruin your idea but mint tea and steamed vegetables are weird things to order when you're hanging out that late. 

 

At this point I think Luanne is justified in her feelings. She's not making a thing out of it but she's not lying when the other women ask her how she feels. And the Sonja young thing is true. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it's not true, Carole. It's snark but it's valid snark.

 

We live on a small island? Carole, this isn't Iceland. There are millions of other guys in the city. 

 

I can definitely see why Bethenny would rather hang out with Terry than the cast who keeps hitting the reset button after fights and airing out their issues and then resetting again. It's nice to have a genuine friend you can talk to who knows your baggage. And that's on the table and you don't pretend it never happened but it also doesn't have to inform every interaction.

 

I appreciate Bethenny knowing she looks like a skeleton vs. Carole going on and on about her amazing body.

 

Victoria's art is good not great. I don't think it's saying enough or technically proficient enough to separate it from most student work. It was better than the stupid clown performance art though.

 

Carole talking to Adam on the phone is as mindnumbingly boring as solo Carole scenes always are.

[motorcitymom65]

If there was any question of Bethenny being my favorite she sealed it this episode calling out Heather on her "Hi, Mama" crap.

 

What are you talking about Kristen? Bethenny is going through a divorce. It's important for her to spend the time with Brynn that she can. I'm sure she can afford some child care option but why would she want to prioritize spending time with you weirdos? As for the show, they basically let her film all the solo stuff she wants so that's not an issue.

 

At this point I think Luanne is justified in her feelings. She's not making a thing out of it but she's not lying when the other women ask her how she feels. And the Sonja young thing is true. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it's not true, Carole. It's snark but it's valid snark.

 

Wait. What? Beth is going through a divorce? I guess I had almost fortgotten since she filed over 2 years ago. FFS, how long are folks supposed to cut her slack because she is "going through a divorce"? I am completely on her side in all of the divorce stuff thus far. I get the emotion and pain of wanting to protect the things that she worked so hard for, and for the most part I think that Jason is an ass. The fact of the matter is, however, Beth could make a lot of her problems go away with the writing of a check, which would still leave her more than enough money to live the rest of her life with. She doesn't want to do that, which I understand, but enough with the bitching and moaning about being homeless or how hard it all is. Just shut up because as the daughter of a divorced mom who struggled every single day, you are pissing my ass off.

Just for the record, I would also like to be able to prioritize my time and spend it with my children and husband instead of all the weirdo's I work with. Anyone out there that wouldn't? Working with some weirdo's is what many people call having a job. We find a way to play well with others. If we said we would rather stay in our office or work alone and not work with others, in general people would think we are the weirdo.

[BlackMamba]

What are you talking about Kristen? Bethenny is going through a divorce. It's important for her to spend the time with Brynn that she can. I'm sure she can afford some child care option but why would she want to prioritize spending time with you weirdos? As for the show, they basically let her film all the solo stuff she wants so that's not an issue.

It is true if Beth wants to spend a lot of time with Bryn thats her right. However if Beth's priorities was about her kid, why come back to reality tv? She has no interest thusfar really being around the group or as she puts it mildly "people she hardly knows." It is like Bethenny's sad world and everyone has to deal because shes "going through alot". It's already old.

[ScoobieDoobs]

It is true if Beth wants to spend a lot of time with Bryn thats her right. However if Beth's priorities was about her kid, why come back to reality tv? She has no interest thusfar really being around the group or as she puts it mildly "people she hardly knows." It is like Bethenny's sad world and everyone has to deal because shes "going through alot". It's already old.

 

Hmmm, I thought she's getting a million bucks from Bravo & Satan Andy to interact with these women.  Guess not.  And she's getting that million bucks -- to do what exactly?  Have therapy sessions on camera with Dr. Fakeass all the rest of the season?  Really?  Like Lu said, can't she put the kid to bed & then go meet the other women?  Yup, Satan Andy has lost control of this ship, that's for sure.

 

What's the difference if Bethenny finally does bother to show up for these events or whatever?  She's just gonna smirk & roll her eyes at everyone, cuz she (at this point) looks like she can barely stand to be in the same room with any of 'em.

[Mozelle]

Bethenny posted a picture on IG of her and Carole from this weekend. Her haircut really looks great! I like how carefree (not strictly European*) it is.

 

*Because the idea that short hair is more European and long hair is more American kind of flies in the face of the stereotype about French women with long, "just rolled out of bed after a romp in the hay with my older (or younger) lover" hair. (See: Delpy, Julie; Gainsbourg, Charlotte)

[TheFinalRose]

Bethenny posted a picture on IG of her and Carole from this weekend. Her haircut really looks great! I like how carefree (not strictly European*) it is.

 

 

 

Yes, tres chic. However, the bottom half of Carole's face is starting to scare me.

 

 

[Otherkate]

Love the haircut. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Bethenny posted a picture on IG of her and Carole from this weekend.

 

Is it just me, or does this friendship seem a bit -- er, convenient?  Given the timing, I think it's just for the show only.  Satan Andy's got himself a million dollar problem.  Bethenny is not relatable at all & she's on an island by herself & she's not mingling with the other women.  She clearly doesn't wanna hang much with Moaner & Lu.  And she hasn't the time, patience or interest in any of the others.  She seems to only be able to tolerate Carole.  

 

OK, so Carole's the only one on the show Bethenny is willing to hang with.  Does that mean they're great pals now?  No fuckin' way.   I don't believe that for a second.  Maybe Satan Andy went to Carole & begged her to be pals with Bethenny.  Man, she deserves a million bucks for having to do that shit.  Ugh, how awful for her.  Looks like from the previews Carole has to play Dr. Fakeass & listen to Bethenny's whining & crying about her past.  

 

Oh man, hangin' with Bethenny is just oodles of fun, eh?  Like a box of kittens, right?  Yeesh, who the fuck would wanna hang with Bethenny -- unless paid very, very, very well?

Edited May 26, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[pbutler111]

No kidding.  Except that wasn't the point of that scene (a few eps back) at all.  NOT.  AT.  ALL.  Her editor looked like a sensible woman -- not the type to waste her time getting angry over trivial crap.  She looked pissed that Carole put her in a position she has to be a task-master with her.  By her own admission, Carole said her work ethic now really stinks.  So she likely has missed a helluva lot more than just one deadline.  She's surely missed several deadlines & also by her own admission she ONLY returns her editor's calls when she feels like it -- which sounds like never.  Interesting way to treat your supervisor/manager -- which her editor essentially is.  Given that she's not allowed to write her Bravo blogs until she meets the deadlines she's obligated to finish, we can assume her publisher is not letting her get away with this bullshit.

 

I can only discuss what's actually known.  You've projected a personality onto the editor, who we don't really know, and assumed behavior by Carole ("she's surely missed several deadlines") that's never been stated or suggested. And editors can't prevent their authors from doing something like writing blog posts.  It's not like your dad saying you can't have your car keys back until you finish your term paper.  And, P.S., I used to duck my editor's calls when I was late on a deadline, too.  No one likes being scolded.

[Mozelle]

Is it just me, or does this friendship seem a bit -- er, convenient?  Given the timing, I think it's just for the show only.  Satan Andy's got himself a million dollar problem.  Bethenny is not relatable at all & she's on an island by herself & she's not mingling with the other women.  She clearly doesn't wanna hang much with Moaner & Lu.  And she hasn't the time, patience or interest in any of the others.  She seems to only be able to tolerate Carole.  

 

OK, so Carole's the only one on the show Bethenny is willing to hang with.  Does that mean they're great pals now?  No fuckin' way.   I don't believe that for a second.  Maybe Satan Andy went to Carole & begged her to be pals with Bethenny.  Man, she deserves a million bucks for having to do that shit.  Ugh, how awful for her.  Looks like from the previews Carole has to play Dr. Fakeass & listen to Bethenny's whining & crying about her past.  

 

Oh man, hangin' with Bethenny is just oodles of fun, eh?  Like a box of kittens, right?  Yeesh, who the fuck would wanna hang with Bethenny -- unless paid very, very, very well?

 

I mean, maybe? I don't follow Bethenny on IG (I only know of the picture because Carole reposted it on her IG), so I don't know if she's got a couple pictures of her and Carole from earlier this year or late last fall. However, I do know that Carole's IG has a number of pictures with her and Heather as well as a couple with her and Kristen. Aside from this reposted picture, the only other Bethenny picture reference I remember is when filming started and Carole posted a picture of a SG product saying that filming had begun.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Mozelle

[ScoobieDoobs]

You've projected a personality onto the editor,

 

No, the editor was clearly unhappy Carole wasn't meeting her obligations & that's it.  No projections.  She's clearly exasperated dealing with someone with a shitty work ethic.  But it really doesn't matter what she thinks in the end.  The publisher will do what's necessary to legally force her hand.

 

It's not like your dad saying you can't have your car keys back until you finish your term paper.

 

Irrelevant analogy.  She has a contract she's expected to abide by.  And it is a fact, which has come from Carole herself, she can't write another Bravo blog until she meets her obligations with her publisher.

 

I see in her TH's she continues to laugh her ass off when she proudly says it takes her years to write.  I would bet this publisher regrets entering into a contract with her.

 

I mean, maybe?

 

Could Carole & Bethenny actually be close friends now?  Friendly maybe -- that I could believe.  But close pals?  Can Bethenny be that way with anyone?  Nah.  I wonder if every ep, from now on, she'll be screaming, "I'm not angry, I'm not angry, I'M NOT ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!"

Edited May 26, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Mozelle]

I see in her TH's she continues to laugh her ass off when she proudly says it takes her years to write.  I would bet this publisher regrets entering into a contract with her.

 

 

Could Carole & Bethenny actually be close friends now?  Friendly maybe -- that I could believe.  But close pals?  Can Bethenny be that way with anyone?  Nah.  I wonder if every ep, from now on, she'll be screaming, "I'm not angry, I'm not angry, I'M NOT ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!"

 

On the first point, I'll refer to Toni Morrison* again (mainly because I positively adore the woman and love her works). The idea that it can take some writers years to finish a work really isn't so farfetched. I mean, it really isn't, nor does it point to some larger meaning about work ethic. So, Carole is not an outlier. It doesn't prove that she's got shit work ethic, either. She's taken years to produce two book-length works. But guess what? Between writing her books, she's also done some freelance magazine and online work, which has a tighter turnaround. So, Carole knows how to get her work done and knows how to work on tighter deadlines.  

 

On the second, I'd guess that Bethenny and Carole are friendly now. They aren't close like Carole and Heather (nor like Carole and Kristen), but I can buy that maybe they enjoy each other's company a bit. 

 

*I listened to Toni Morrison speak about her latest novel, God Help the Child. She was at Sixth and I, which I missed when it happened, but I'm thankful for Politics & Prose recording many of their events. She said that she started this latest book in 2008 and stopped because she found things weren't working the way she wanted; she couldn't get a handle on some contemporary pieces and decided to set the book aside. Obviously she went back to it since it's now out in the world. 

[motorcitymom65]

Is it just me, or does this friendship seem a bit -- er, convenient?  Given the timing, I think it's just for the show only.  Satan Andy's got himself a million dollar problem.  Bethenny is not relatable at all & she's on an island by herself & she's not mingling with the other women.  She clearly doesn't wanna hang much with Moaner & Lu.  And she hasn't the time, patience or interest in any of the others.  She seems to only be able to tolerate Carole.  

 

OK, so Carole's the only one on the show Bethenny is willing to hang with.  Does that mean they're great pals now?  No fuckin' way.   I don't believe that for a second.  Maybe Satan Andy went to Carole & begged her to be pals with Bethenny.  Man, she deserves a million bucks for having to do that shit.  Ugh, how awful for her.  Looks like from the previews Carole has to play Dr. Fakeass & listen to Bethenny's whining & crying about her past.  

 

Oh man, hangin' with Bethenny is just oodles of fun, eh?  Like a box of kittens, right?  Yeesh, who the fuck would wanna hang with Bethenny -- unless paid very, very, very well?

I think they are friends. There have been entirely too many sightings of them together for it to be fake, IMO. Not to mention them vacationing together in Miami when filming wrapped. The season is still so new, so there is a lot of time for Carole and Beth to start to show us how they become close.  From the looks of things, I think we will see the beginning of it tonight. 

 

http://www.fashionnstyle.com/articles/60061/20150507/bethenny-frankel-carole-radziwill-new-besties-rhony-star-dishes-friendship-cast-mate-heather-thomson-jealous.htm

[Baltimore Betty]

Well I for one AM waiting to hear about Sonja's townhouse and her open windows and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for reporting the details to us ScoobieDoobs.  If I lived near a housewife I would be walking my dogs past her home twice a day and taking photos too. Perhaps Sonja is in Gstaad or St Tropez with her smokey eye and updo for Memorial Day weekend?  

I hope she packed her St. Tropez undies too.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Baltimore Betty

[lunastartron]

Carole herself stated that she missed a major deadline in one of her talking heads ("I was supposed to turn in X amount of words X amount of time ago") and, again, has asserted that her publisher won't let her write blogs ("My contract prohibits me for writing for anyone else and, sadly, that includes Bravo . . . I won't be able to write each week until my book is handed in.") What is ambiguous about any of that? . . . And wait, Carole is now comparable to Toni Morrison? If Carole ever wants to discuss "apples and spaceships" again, WG and Beloved would be a good place for her to start. And that's fine, not every novel can or has to redefine the parameters of the American canon or effect new innovations vis-a-vis artistry and/or technique. WG is well written for what it is and what I believe Carole intended it to be - a humor-heavy work of popular fiction. But, from my perspective, the comparison is inaccurate not only in an artistic capacity but in a logistical one as well. So Morrison worked on God Bless the Child elliptically . . . She also produced, at the very least, Home during said ellipses . . . I would also contend that Carole's present manifesto, being comprised of essays, is more consistent with those tight turnarounds of magazine writing and news journalism that she frequently cites. Ultimately, I might regard Carole's approach to her career differently had she not spent an entire season trumpeting her professionalism and how it defines her identity. Okay, well, deadlines are part of that profession when she signs a contract that yields you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[iwasish]

I got the impression that he had been that abusive guy back then when he was a drug addict, but has subsequently cleaned up his act. 

 

I also kinda understood why he told Bethenny that her mother never wanted to have a child.  Bethenny had started talking about how her mother was out there somewhere and maybe trying to contact her which even her therapist told her was a bad idea.  He gave her the unvarnished truth about her mother so she didn't need to waste time looking for her.  I don't know if he's right or not, but I think that's what he was trying to do for her, to help her put that behind her so she could move forward.

If he was a creep way back when and cleaned himself up, maybe her mom has made changes in her life also. The woman stayed with an abusive man, maybe she had no choice, or was battling her own demons of drugs/alcohol. Who is worse, the abuser or the victim? Maybe her mom sent her to boarding school to get her away from a situation that she herself couldn't/wouldn't  escape. I take nothing that Bethenny says as gospel, and her stepfather I'm sure got a nice big old check, if not from BRAVO, from Bethenny herself. I think if she wants a family for Bryn or some kind of closure  for herself (which I doubt, cause then she can't beat that horse no more) she owes it to herself and Bryn to have a conversation OFF CAMERA (that ain't gonna happen) with her mother. I don't care either way, but I'm sick of her crying the same sad tune. I can only imagine what Bryn will have to tolerate as she grows up.

[motorcitymom65]

Carole herself stated that she missed a major deadline in one of her talking heads ("I was supposed to turn in X amount of words X amount of time ago") and, again, has asserted that her publisher won't let her write blogs ("My contract prohibits me for writing for anyone else and, sadly, that includes Bravo . . . I won't be able to write each week until my book is handed in.") What is ambiguous about any of that? . . . And wait, Carole is now comparable to Toni Morrison? If Carole ever wants to discuss "apples and spaceships" again, WG and Beloved would be a good place for her to start. And that's fine, not every novel can or has to redefine the parameters of the American canon or effect new innovations vis-a-vis artistry and/or technique. WG is well written for what it is and what I believe Carole intended it to be - a humor-heavy work of popular fiction. But, from my perspective, the comparison is inaccurate not only in an artistic capacity but in a logistical one as well. So Morrison worked on God Bless the Child elliptically . . . She also produced, at the very least, Home during said ellipses . . . I would also contend that Carole's present manifesto, being comprised of essays, is more consistent with those tight turnarounds of magazine writing and news journalism that she frequently cites. Ultimately, I might regard Carole's approach to her career differently had she not spent an entire season trumpeting her professionalism and how it defines her identity. Okay, well, deadlines are part of that profession when she signs a contract that yields you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

No question that Carole missed a deadline. I didn't get the impression that this was that huge of a deal, however. It looked all ramped up for drama to me. I have zero experience in the literary world, but I had heard the term "writer's block" way before I knew who Carole Radziwill was. I will assume that it is not incredibly unusual for a writer to struggle with a deadline. When Brian Moylan wrote his first recap of the season for Vulture he joked about what a tough group of people writers can be to try and motivate into getting the assigned work in on time. He is a writer and he acted like this is not particularly unusual. Not that it isn't bad or doesn't tick off an Editor, but that it can be par for the course in this world. Carole was very open about the fact that she had to basically isolate herself in Oregon when she wrote her first book. She had to get away from everything that was comforting to her in order to find the words. As she said this season, she doesn't want to isolate right now because she is enjoying her life. To me, that doesn't necessarily make her lazy. It just means she is going to have to find a new way to work if this is indeed how she intends to continue to make a living. 

[sasha206]

So I'm re-watching the episode on right now where Carole and Adam are playing ping pong and now suddenly I'm thinking they are cute together.  Don't hate!

Edited May 26, 2015 by sasha206

[lunastartron]

A post above seems to suggest that the discussion of missed deadlines is presumption and that Carole's editor can't prohibit her from penning her weekly blogs. I referred to the quotes in my previous post because I don't understand why there's confusion about any of those points - Carole herself made those statements. There's no extrapolation on the part of those alluding to assertions Carole herself has made . . . I don't necessarily feel that Carole's productivity is entirely attributable to laziness, but if she were writing for a magazine (even as a contributing writer)- her familiarity with deadlines therein has been invoked above, and I personally feel that experience is relevant since this is a non-fiction on which Carole is working - and she said that she didn't really feel like taking the steps that have heretofore been necessary to fulfill her obligations (and said it after not turning in work for which she was contracted), then I have trouble imagining that her cavalier regard toward this profession that she purports herself to take so seriously (and which is so sacrosanct that an off-hand remark by Aviva Drescher can threaten its integrity) would be interpreted as anything other than entitlement and, yes, questionable work ethic. It's a little odd to me that there seems to be this overwhelming consensus that Bethenny should attend all group rendez-vous for filming because that's in her job description (even though no one know what latitude production contractually extended her) but Carole's explicitly stated breach of her agreements with her editor/publishing house are at the same time not noteworthy.

[Mozelle]

Carole herself stated that she missed a major deadline in one of her talking heads ("I was supposed to turn in X amount of words X amount of time ago") and, again, has asserted that her publisher won't let her write blogs ("My contract prohibits me for writing for anyone else and, sadly, that includes Bravo . . . I won't be able to write each week until my book is handed in.") What is ambiguous about any of that? . . . And wait, Carole is now comparable to Toni Morrison? If Carole ever wants to discuss "apples and spaceships" again, WG and Beloved would be a good place for her to start. And that's fine, not every novel can or has to redefine the parameters of the American canon or effect new innovations vis-a-vis artistry and/or technique. WG is well written for what it is and what I believe Carole intended it to be - a humor-heavy work of popular fiction. But, from my perspective, the comparison is inaccurate not only in an artistic capacity but in a logistical one as well. So Morrison worked on God Bless the Child elliptically . . . She also produced, at the very least, Home during said ellipses . . . I would also contend that Carole's present manifesto, being comprised of essays, is more consistent with those tight turnarounds of magazine writing and news journalism that she frequently cites. Ultimately, I might regard Carole's approach to her career differently had she not spent an entire season trumpeting her professionalism and how it defines her identity. Okay, well, deadlines are part of that profession when she signs a contract that yields you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Good freaking grief. Yes, Carole's comparable to Toni Morrison when I explicitly talk about the length of time it can take some writers to complete a work. That was very clear in what I wrote. Quite, in fact.

I'm not talking about the subject matter of Beloved versus What Remains or Sula versus A Widow's Guide. I'm talking about a writer's process (and I've never equivocated on or been unclear about what I'm talking about there), which so many folks seem intent on shoehorning into some narrow There's Only One Way to Complete a Book (and that's like this *snaps fingers*) definition. I'm talking about what Toni Morrison said about her latest book, which clocks in at 178 pages. I'm talking about the length of time she took to write that. I'll say it again:

I am talking about the length of time it took her to write a book. I am talking about how it doesn't mean that a writer has shit work ethic because she's taking months or years to complete a book. Again: I am talking about the length of time it took her to write a book.

[DelicateDee]

I wish there could be a separate area somewhere devoted to the incessant Carole bashing. It's truly tiresome and gets in the way of actually discussing the show.

I wish there could be a separate area somewhere devoted to the incessant Carole bashing. It's truly tiresome and gets in the way of actually discussing the show.

Sorry, don't know how to quote yet. Please disregard comment above. It got disconnected from my comment on it.

Edited June 1, 2015 by DelicateDee

[Mozelle]

So I'm re-watching the episode on right now where Carole and Adam are playing ping pong and now suddenly I'm thinking they are cute together.  Don't hate!

Come back to the dark side, sasha. You know you want to. ;) (Shit! I omitted the numbers from your handle. Is that kosher?)

[DelicateDee]

I don't see any more bashing of Carole, than I do of Bethenny. I actually think that Bethenny gets more, with more vitriol at that! But they all get it, just depends what happened in the last particular episode that draws our ire.

Hi all, I'm a long time lurker of the forums, 1st time posting in PTV. Maybe will post more in future, but feel a bit under qualified with the snark and funny, sarcastic wit most of you exhibit. You give me major chuckles. NY is my fav, though. Carry on.

[Almost 3000]

No question that Carole missed a deadline. I didn't get the impression that this was that huge of a deal, however. It looked all ramped up for drama to me. I have zero experience in the literary world, but I had heard the term "writer's block" way before I knew who Carole Radziwill was. I will assume that it is not incredibly unusual for a writer to struggle with a deadline. When Brian Moylan wrote his first recap of the season for Vulture he joked about what a tough group of people writers can be to try and motivate into getting the assigned work in on time. He is a writer and he acted like this is not particularly unusual. Not that it isn't bad or doesn't tick off an Editor, but that it can be par for the course in this world. Carole was very open about the fact that she had to basically isolate herself in Oregon when she wrote her first book. She had to get away from everything that was comforting to her in order to find the words. As she said this season, she doesn't want to isolate right now because she is enjoying her life. To me, that doesn't necessarily make her lazy. It just means she is going to have to find a new way to work if this is indeed how she intends to continue to make a living.

I've always felt that book author may not be Carole's life calling. An extraordinary set of events helped to pull together a tale for her memoir. She likes the cache calling herself a book author but her skill set seems more in line with pithy blogs, magazine articles and tales in which to dine out. Edited May 26, 2015 by Almost 3000

[sasha206]

Come back to the dark side, sasha. You know you want to. ;) (Shit! I omitted the numbers from your handle. Is that kosher?)

 

Hee hee!

 

I actually do like Carole.  I think she'd be fun to hang out with!  I just wouldn't partake in any gummy bear exchanges.  :)  And you can omit the numbers anytime!

[lunastartron]

But the quality and nature of any literary product is germane to the amount of time said product requires. Should the person who actually authored Leggy Blonde have declined to turn in a manuscript on time just because Toni Morrison's "process" takes longer? Should Nora Roberts require 10 years to turn out one of her romantic suspense yarns - quotas from her publisher be damned- just because Donna Tartt needs that long to create The Secret Friend or The Goldfinch? I don't see anyone critiquing Carole for "months or years to write a book." I see backlash against Carole for missing a contractually stipulated deadline on which she has been afforded years to work and also for her related projection of a scatterbrained persona/tittering over said breach of contract and telling her editor that she would prefer not to work right now (since isolation and work are synonymous for Carole per her own words).

[Grneyedldy]

Hmmm, I thought she's getting a million bucks from Bravo & Satan Andy to interact with these women.  Guess not.  And she's getting that million bucks -- to do what exactly?  Have therapy sessions on camera with Dr. Fakeass all the rest of the season?  Really?  Like Lu said, can't she put the kid to bed & then go meet the other women?  Yup, Satan Andy has lost control of this ship, that's for sure.

 

What's the difference if Bethenny finally does bother to show up for these events or whatever?  She's just gonna smirk & roll her eyes at everyone, cuz she (at this point) looks like she can barely stand to be in the same room with any of 'em.

I don't blame Bethenny one bit for not leaving Bryn after she is asleep to "fulfill" her work obligations. I also can't imagine that her number one contract demand wasnt that she wouldn't work when she had her child. I would think that would be a deal breaker for her.

I also don't see Bethenny missing all these supposed events and not wanting to film with them. Yes, she has mentioned that she's guarded and not as comfortable with "new" people, but that doesn't mean she's not showing up to events. I think it's way too soon to see if B earned her keep.

[LotusFlower]

I see backlash against Carole for missing a contractually stipulated deadline on which she has been afforded years to work.

I'm sure Toni Morrison missed a deadline. I think that was Mozelle's point.

[ihartcoffee]

I turned it off, too much Bethenny lately for my taste.

Did I miss much?

[AnnaMayWong]

I am assuming that one of the major reasons we see SO MUCH of Carol and Bethenny is because Andy is BESOTTED with them.

[AnnaMayWong]

Carol does indeed feel this way--often. I believe this affectation/ persona...of Carol is in part due to her belief in her great intellectual prowess. I mean just look at her past employment, past social connections, and Andy's current adoration. In her mind, although somewhat amiable to coworkers, she is superior but humble.

[AnnaMayWong]

Sorry Nanny pants. I am new to posting and this occurred in error.

Edited May 27, 2015 by BookElitist

[FozzyBear]

I hate the whole "hipster" look thing. It bugs me when people put that much effort into looking like they don't care what they look like. They are not fooling anyone but themselves.

Carole looked especially silly in that stocking cap. What's next, a little pork pie hat? Swilling a PBR? gah!

With you. I'm a child of the 1990s and I hated the carefully curated homeless look then and I hate it now.

I think Victoria is very talented. I've always been impressed with her art and I liked seeing how she's progressed.

Carole: "I know the whole story!" Says everyone woman being lied to everywhere.

As to Bethanny's stepfather. Ehh, she's in her early 40s and is a new mother and going through a divorce. I'm not surprised she's got the urge to take stock and try to get closure on her childhood. As for what John said I think he was trying to tell B there wasn't anything she could have done to make her mom happy. She didn't want to be a mom so no kid was going to be good enough. John is just a sad old man. I didn't think B was implying John could come babysit, just that she might bring Bryn to meet him for lunch once or twice before he dies.