S02.E20: Scars

[ae2]

Wait. Their plan was to send Skye back to let her mother know they wanted to talk peacefully, which presumably means communicating to arrange a meeting. Instead they figure out how to track the teleporter and send three jets in unexpectedly, but Skye and the Inhumans didn't seem surprised that they showed up on their doorstep.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Instead they figure out how to track the teleporter and send three jets in unexpectedly, but Skye and the Inhumans didn't seem surprised that they showed up on their doorstep.

 

I just figured that Fitz put a tracker in the Hula dancer he gave to Skye.

 

I was also underwhelmed by the Inhumans response to three Quinjets landing nearby -- they acted like that was something that happened every day.

[Julie23]

Thanks for the spoiler, I guess The Avengers save the world? ha! 

I thought Skye was incredibly smug in this episode. Her attitude towards May was just awful.I guess her transformation to inhuman is complete since she now seems to feel that she is "better" than plain old humans.

I did not see Jiaying's evil side. Damn, she's cold. Not that I miss Gonzalez. She did Shield a favor there.

Also did not see Ward/Kara coming. But should have known Ward would not just walk away.

May and Coulson need to make up now!

I can't believe Mack just walked out!

Koening is awesome, as always. 

[Humbugged]

Thanks for the spoiler, I guess The Avengers save the world? ha! 

I thought Skye was incredibly smug in this episode. Her attitude towards May was just awful.I guess her transformation to inhuman is complete since she now seems to feel that she is "better" than plain old humans.

I did not see Jiaying's evil side. Damn, she's cold. Not that I miss Gonzalez. She did Shield a favor there.

Also did not see Ward/Kara coming. But should have known Ward would not just walk away.

May and Coulson need to make up now!

I can't believe Mack just walked out!

Koening is awesome, as always. 

 

She had just had her status as a person brought up by Phil ' who cares as long as I get to it in the big seat' Coulson .But hey SHIELD togetherness is obviously more important than doing the right thing.

And then May got in her face about how dangerous the teleporting guy was by a woman who happily took 20 armed men to threaten and possibly kill someone if she refused SHIELD's wishes .She questioned who is a danger to whom - personally I don't see that as smug but calling these two so called mentors of hers for their BS

 

Which May then reinforced later on in the episode when OKing the kill order because Robert is nice to bunnies.

[Sakura12]

I don't think Jiaying's wrong in her thinking, She was alive during World War II and knows that categorizing people as different is more then just putting them on a list. She knows that her people just have to make one mistake, no matter how small and SHIELD will call that a threat and come round them up and put them in cells. SHIELD wants any excuse to wipe them out. I don't agree with how she went about it, but I do agree with her fear. 

 

However I think Jiaying's gone rogue and the other Inhumans mostly likely sent by the Royal Family will show up to stop her. But that will show SHIELD that they are dealing with a lot more then a group of Inhumans, setting up the Civil War with Captain America. 

[Julie23]

 

And then May got in her face about how dangerous the teleporting guy was by a woman who happily took 20 armed men to threaten and possibly kill someone if she refused SHIELD's wishes .

As it turned out, that little girl WAS dangerous, and so is teleporting guy, Like she said, he can just show up anywhere and drop a bomb and leave. That's bad. Right?

And Coulson  has treated Skye like a daughter, sometimes annoyingly so, but still, he is genuinely concerned about how she is dealing with her change. Skye's been brainwashed to not trust any humans. Even humans who took her in an treated he like family. Now we know why. Jiaying had a master plan. She has been manipulating her own daughter to go against her friends.

[Raja]

Thanks for the spoiler, I guess The Avengers save the world? ha! 

I thought Skye was incredibly smug in this episode. Her attitude towards May was just awful.I guess her transformation to inhuman is complete since she now seems to feel that she is "better" than plain old humans.

I did not see Jiaying's evil side. Damn, she's cold. Not that I miss Gonzalez. She did Shield a favor there.

Also did not see Ward/Kara coming. But should have known Ward would not just walk away.

May and Coulson need to make up now!

I can't believe Mack just walked out!

Koening is awesome, as always. 

No transformation is complete. Skye/Daisy? or Quake origin as a stand in for the others will probably be the big story for the franchise going into phase 3. How newly powered Inhumans, many raised without years of conditioning choose sides between a people they never knew but are slotted a part of because of their known heritage like a single drop rule sort of way on one side and normative humanity as a whole. Some will turn out to be Xavier, others Magneto or worse. I won't say buckle in because this story has a long run to go before a full civil war and Inhuman movies come out.

[shrewd.buddha]

I was disappointed that Jiaying turned out to be villainous. It could have been just as tense if she was a good person trying to do the right thing by her people - and refused to cooperate with the cataloging of her people.

But then again, in past episodes she has already shown herself to be an anti-human racist who doesn't care when non-Inhumans die...

... And yet, she herself cannot tell if a human is a potential Inhuman or not until they are transformed - or killed - by the t-mist stuff. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[Primetimer]

SHIELD seems bent on picking a fight with the Inhumans. And vice versa. So why's everyone in such a bad mood?

Read the story

[Sakura12]

Considering Jiaying was torn apart, her organs harvested and child stolen by humans, I think think her hatred of them is valid. Gonzales has also showed himself to be an anti-enhanced human racist and doesn't care when non-humans die. How she went about is wrong, but like I said I think she will get in trouble by her races higher ups.

[Chaos Theory]

When it comes down to it the only real difference between SHIELD and HYDRA is motive. Shield wants to protect people (and I doubt they view Inhumans as people) and Hydra is in it for personal gain. They both use similar methods to get what they want though which is why Inhumans wouldn't want anything to do with either a bad outcome with both.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[DeLurker]

They could have straight up refused to meet and fled Afterlife. She could have refused Gonzalez terms and run. Or she could have consulted her people (you know, the ones she's going to be sending to war) if they even agree with a war. She said that she's not sure that they will even follow her (hence faking the attack to sway sympathy), but Afterlife doesn't seem to have a military or anyone who is expected to fight and die to protect the others. So she's basically asking civilians to go to war against a heavily armed opponent. I'm not saying that SHIELD was right in what they did, but I think that as leader, when you're going to be sending people to war, you should at least consult them first. Maybe the others in Afterlife would not have wanted to fight?

Why should they have to flee Afterlife because SHIELD decides they need to meet?  As far as I know, they've been minding their own business in Afterlife and not causing havoc for humans.  You had the rogue Mom and kid, which they should have addressed prior to SHIELD becoming involved, but have there been other interferences (other than Gordo popping in and out to retrieve an Inhuman)?

 

Neither group has the clear moral high ground here.

 

Wait. Their plan was to send Skye back to let her mother know they wanted to talk peacefully, which presumably means communicating to arrange a meeting. Instead they figure out how to track the teleporter and send three jets in unexpectedly, but Skye and the Inhumans didn't seem surprised that they showed up on their doorstep.

 

It was unclear to me  - it seemed to be phrased as a request to meet and also notice that they were coming the next day to meet.  And since this would be an opening dialogue / negotiation of sorts, that seems to be bad form.  I would imagine meeting on neutral ground would be a better tactic.  But the Inhumans clearly knew it was coming since Gordon was there to meet them.

 

Opening with the Koenigs filled me with joy.

 

I was wary about the gift Gonzales offered up.  I was thinking it was something more ominous and was wondering if they put a tracker or bug on it of some sort.

[Humbugged]

I was disappointed that Jiaying turned out to be villainous. It could have been just as tense if she was a good person trying to do the right thing by her people - and refused to cooperate with the cataloging of her people.

But then again, in past episodes she has already shown herself to be an anti-human racist who doesn't care when non-Inhumans die...

... And yet, she herself cannot tell if a human is a potential Inhuman or not until they are transformed - or killed - by the t-mist stuff. 

 

Yeah she should just have agreed to the anal probes and vivisection that comes with the Index .   Absolutely .

[paigow]

So the consensus is that next week's "war" between SHIELD and the Inhumans will be a draw. If the body count is really high, next season's show title may change to: "Marvel's Koenigs of SHIELD".

[DeLurker]

I would so watch that!

[kennyab]

Yeah she should just have agreed to the anal probes and vivisection that comes with the Index .   Absolutely .

 

Yep. Gonzales was fine until he "insisted" that the Inhumans be indexed. He has no right or jurisdiction to do that. Had he said that he'd like to keep the door of communication open and cooperate with Jaiying if they came across a powered individual who is possibly an Inhuman who is causing problems, I think things would have worked out just fine, and it could have been considered a fairly successful first contact. But requiring them to be indexed, with an implied threat that they'd do it by force if necessary, was a step too far.

 

Not that I agree with how Jaiying responded, but Gonzales was very much in the wrong.

[shrewd.buddha]

Yeah she should just have agreed to the anal probes and vivisection that comes with the Index .   Absolutely .

The text that was quoted was : "refused to cooperate"  not  "agreed to cooperate". 

Edited May 6, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[Sakura12]

Jiaying is definitely the Magneto of the Inhumans, Where they are not wrong with their fear, but go about it the wrong way making them not any better then the people that want to destroy them. 

 

Jiaying should've responded with if you put us on a list, how about we put all of you on list and if any of you do anything to harm the world we can go after you as well. 

[Gregg247]

This was the worst episode they've ever done. :(

 

"Crisis Averted in Skovania".  Really?  I think the people of Skovania, who saw their city utterly destroyed, would beg to differ.  What if Ultron had followed Loki's lead and attacked NYC?  Can anyone imagine the headline "Crisis Averted in New York" when Manhattan was just a giant hole in the ground?

 

Isn't SHIELD supposed to handle big disasters like this?  Why was everyone just watching TV before returning to their boring Inhumans plot?  Shouldn't SHIELD at least send a representative to the site?  I'm glad that EJO and Coulson have patched up their differences and decided on a new reporting structure.  Maybe someone outside of SHIELD, like the President, the military, Captain America, should be clued in to their "decision".

 

I'm not convinced, as a taxpayer, that SHIELD is a good use of my tax dollars.

 

Did EJO really fly in to a top secret Inhuman compound that's existed for centuries, meet with the leader of this group who have managed to stay hidden from the human race and try to mind their own business for all this time, and actually tell them, "I know you were experimented on, tortured, and killed by Nazis in WW2, but we're the good guys, so we want to bag and tag everyone here in case any of you decide to cause trouble for us later.  Only THEN would we experiment on you, torture you, and kill you"!?!?!?!  I realize Skye's mom is now the villain, but I kind of agree with her actions here.

[SnoGirl]

Did anyone catch what the post-it on the mirror said in the opening with Koenig? Did it say "Don't forgot to call your sister?" I tried reading it, but it was so small and fast, I wasn't sure. I would love the idea of a female set of Koenigs out there, Triplett's mind would have been blown!

[kennyab]

This was the worst episode they've ever done. :(

 

"Crisis Averted in Skovania".  Really?  I think the people of Skovania, who saw their city utterly destroyed, would beg to differ.  What if Ultron had followed Loki's lead and attacked NYC?  Can anyone imagine the headline "Crisis Averted in New York" when Manhattan was just a giant hole in the ground?

Sounds like a reasonable US-centric headline to me. Ultron's plan was to cause an extinction event, which didn't happen. Our media would focus more on how the events relate to us than the destruction in Sokovia. Not saying that's good, but it's reasonable.

 

Isn't SHIELD supposed to handle big disasters like this?  Why was everyone just watching TV before returning to their boring Inhumans plot?  Shouldn't SHIELD at least send a representative to the site?  I'm glad that EJO and Coulson have patched up their differences and decided on a new reporting structure.  Maybe someone outside of SHIELD, like the President, the military, Captain America, should be clued in to their "decision".

SHIELD knew that Fury and the expanded Avengers Initiative (the one put together by Coulson) were on it. If Fury needed a hand, he'd call them.

 

I'm not convinced, as a taxpayer, that SHIELD is a good use of my tax dollars.

It's no longer taxpayer funded, so not an issue.

 

Did EJO really fly in to a top secret Inhuman compound that's existed for centuries, meet with the leader of this group who have managed to stay hidden from the human race and try to mind their own business for all this time, and actually tell them, "I know you were experimented on, tortured, and killed by Nazis in WW2, but we're the good guys, so we want to bag and tag everyone here in case any of you decide to cause trouble for us later.  Only THEN would we experiment on you, torture you, and kill you"!?!?!?!  I realize Skye's mom is now the villain, but I kind of agree with her actions here.

I think Jaiying's distrust is supposed to be understandable, but her reaction is not. As others have stated, she's being set up as a Magneto type character whose cause is sympathetic, but whose extremism is a problem.

Edited May 6, 2015 by kennyab

[ae2]

Did anyone catch what the post-it on the mirror said in the opening with Koenig? Did it say "Don't forgot to call your sister?" I tried reading it, but it was so small and fast, I wasn't sure. I would love the idea of a female set of Koenigs out there, Triplett's mind would have been blown!

 

You're correct.

 

Isn't SHIELD supposed to handle big disasters like this?  Why was everyone just watching TV before returning to their boring Inhumans plot?  Shouldn't SHIELD at least send a representative to the site? 

 

They did. They sent a helicarrier to rescue the people from the city and presumably continue with ongoing support. Still, I would have liked a little more tie-in.

[DeLurker]

I think Jaiying's distrust is supposed to be understandable, but her reaction is not. As others have stated, she's being set up as a Magneto type character whose cause is sympathetic, but whose extremism is a problem.

So Cal's the calmer and more reasonable one in the marriage?

[Humbugged]

The text that was quoted was : "refused to cooperate"  not  "agreed to cooperate". 

Yeah I know what you posted and  the anal probes ,being cut up and permanently surveilled is what she WAS REFUSING to do .

 

And the opposite of what she was doing  ie REFUSING is AGREEING

Edited May 6, 2015 by Humbugged

[Humbugged]

S

I think Jaiying's distrust is supposed to be understandable, but her reaction is not. As others have stated, she's being set up as a Magneto type character whose cause is sympathetic, but whose extremism is a problem.

 

It is not extreme to tell SHIELD to shove their Index where the sun don't shine like a lot of The Pro-Reggers seem to be implying .

 

Would having Inhumans destroying the jets as they sat outside have been fine ? Or is it the fighting back at alll people have the problem with?

[Sakura12]

I think Jaiying's distrust is supposed to be understandable, but her reaction is not. As others have stated, she's being set up as a Magneto type character whose cause is sympathetic, but whose extremism is a problem.

 

That's how I see it. We also have to remember that Gonzales' first thought was to attack them when they haven't even done anything. Coulson was the one that suggest they talk first, before just attacking an entire race of people. Plus sending Gonzales wasn't the best choice either, Coulson is biased because of Skye, but Gonzales is biased for his hatred of all powered people. I think Bobbi would've been the best choice to be the one to speak to them. She's not biased at all. She trusts Shield and but also wants to give the powered people the benefit of the doubt. 

 

I love how SHIELD thinks that they are able to do whatever they want, including infiltrate other people's bases and leave bombs behind. But if anyone else does it, they are dangerous. Yes, powered people can do things quicker they can, but if they haven't done anything wrong, why automatically think they are bad? Gordon and Raina were just checking up on info that Raina received about a weapon of Mass Destruction to their kind. SHIELD would've done the same thing if it was weapon meant for them.

 

Then if we go with what happened in the movie, it was human man Tony that created a weapon that wanted to destroy the world, it was a human man that created Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, it was the human Hydra that destroyed their whole operation. Why shouldn't the Inhumans think they that those humans are dangerous and should be put on lists and monitored? 

 

Then finally it was a team made up of enhanced humans and humans that saved the day. So really they should be working together to go after anyone that's a threat to the world, enhanced human or regular human. 

[kennyab]

I'm not saying that it's extremism for her to no cooperate with indexing. I agree with her on that point. But going straight to faking an assassination attempt to start a conflict with SHIELD is extreme. The sane thing to do would be to let Gonzalez know in no uncertain terms that the Afterlife is sovereign and SHIELD has no authority for indexing, not to mention the fact that registration of people who have committed no crimes is just wrong. Find out if he's bluffing, try to get him to back off. She lied to her own people to start a war. If I were an Inhuman and found out what she did, I'd be pissed.

Edited May 6, 2015 by kennyab

[Boundary]

How do you say "no" to Gonzalez with a bunch of quinjets sat outside? The guy plainly was not about to fly off empty handed. Jiaying was also not alone in her decision. It seems they've evacuated valuable stuff, and presumably children and other vulnerable ones (we'll see next week). But I think faking being shot was just for Skye's benefit, she obviously has an interest in not pushing her towards SHIELD's side.

[kennyab]

How do you say "no" to Gonzalez with a bunch of quinjets sat outside? The guy plainly was not about to fly off empty handed. Jiaying was also not alone in her decision. It seems they've evacuated valuable stuff, and presumably children and other vulnerable ones (we'll see next week). But I think faking being shot was just for Skye's benefit, she obviously has an interest in not pushing her towards SHIELD's side.

 

You say "no, and we're prepared to defend ourselves if necessary." Then you wait for Gonzalez's response and let him make his own declaration of war. She prematurely escalated the situation. People make threats all the time but then back down in the fact of resistance. And shooting herself wasn't for Skye's benefit. She said herself that she didn't believe she had the support of the Inhumans to wage battle against SHIELD. So instead of being honest with her people about the situation, she lies and manipulates them to get their support. Her intentions are noble, but there was still a chance to get out of that situation without bloodshed. It's called a Cold War.

 

Had Gonzalez backed down under threat of resistance, she would have gotten what she wanted without anyone getting hurt. Had he not backed down, there was likely chance of violence, but it would have been all on him. Instead she ensured that blood would flow and lied to her people so that they'd be angry. The truth is going to come out, and she's not going to be vindicated.

[Lady Calypso]

I think it's definitely a complicated situation, one that isn't black and white and has many elements to it. Jiaying made a call to start the war based on what Gonzales was saying to her. We, the audience, know that Gonzales was never on board with the Inhumans and probably would have captured and killed on sight if they resisted. But Jiaying doesn't know that, so it makes her actions definitely seem unwarranted. But she's also been captured by Hydra and knows what they're capable of. She's tried to protect the people around her and when Skye was surprised to see Gonzales instead of Coulson, a man she has talked highly upon, that probably sent warning bells to Jiaying and she reacted. She's not wrong in wanting to stay off the radar. She's heard a little bit about what happens when people are indexed and she even sent Cal to Shield as a 'peace offering'. Now, does that mean she always planned to start the war and knew Cal would eventually be back to fight with them? I'm not sure, but it's possible. But I think once Gordon explained what Raina was doing with the manipulation, she seemed to form a plan of her own. I don't know why she'd start the war with Raina literally saying that Jiaying would be the cause of her vision coming true, but whatever.

 

I think the Inhumans will have the right to get angry at her for lying and starting a war on their own people. But I do think that she thinks that it's helping their people be protected. Also, why couldn't Shield and the Inhumans decide to meet in a more neutral place? Ok, I guess it's because they already knew where their base was, but a more neutral place might have been a better option. Meeting in Afterlife gave Jiaying the advantage. I do think she was afraid that Shield was lying and they would experiment on her people and she just reacted accordingly to that, which is understandable. But yeah, I'm pretty sure her leadership days are over for Afterlife.

 

Poor Bobbi; she gets shot and captured by Bonnie and Clyde. I know she'll be alright, but she could have been useful in the meeting at Afterlife. Mac leaving was very surprising and it seemed....I don't know, very sudden? Why leave right before the finale? But I've stopped really liking Mac anyway (I really only started liking him more when he was interacting with Fitz, and now he doesn't seem to do that anymore) so good riddance, I guess. It's a shame, but I guess they don't have any more story to tell with him. Or something.

 

The flashback to Theta Protocol wasn't awful, but I don't understand why he couldn't tell May. I don't think Fury would have had a problem with that secret getting out to May, seeing as he has used her to do shady things in the past anyway. But whatever, plot contrivances, I guess.

 

Fitz and Simmons teasing Skye was so much fun. Man, though, Simmons is getting a really good storyline while Fitz is just loitering in the background once more. I like Fitz and I would love for him to get back into the story, but they seem to forget about him nowadays. His scenes with Coulson and Hunter are good, though.

 

I can see why Skye is choosing the Inhumans over Shield. They have helped her and May wasn't really acknowledging that fact. But damn, Skye vs May could be fun to see. May would have absolutely won over Skye before she got her powers, but now at least it will be more evenly matched. I think May would still win, but at least it wouldn't be by a landslide.

[Humbugged]

You say "no, and we're prepared to defend ourselves if necessary." Then you wait for Gonzalez's response and let him make his own declaration of war. She prematurely escalated the situation. People make threats all the time but then back down in the fact of resistance. And shooting herself wasn't for Skye's benefit. She said herself that she didn't believe she had the support of the Inhumans to wage battle against SHIELD. So instead of being honest with her people about the situation, she lies and manipulates them to get their support. Her intentions are noble, but there was still a chance to get out of that situation without bloodshed. It's called a Cold War.

 

Had Gonzalez backed down under threat of resistance, she would have gotten what she wanted without anyone getting hurt. Had he not backed down, there was likely chance of violence, but it would have been all on him. Instead she ensured that blood would flow and lied to her people so that they'd be angry. The truth is going to come out, and she's not going to be vindicated.

Did you miss the WMD then ?

 

And we know what the response was going to be . Hot Seat Phil made it clear that it was Indexing minimum. So the Inhumans were not going to be able to get what they wanted which was to be left in peace ,

 

And SHIELD escalated what was supposed to be a fireside sit down between Phil and Jiaying into a case of 4 armed jets,medical staff to Index people ,armed SHEILD agents on the ground and Gonzalez armed in her office .But of course she escalated it not them   BS

[crystalwearer]

I think May would still win, but at least it wouldn't be by a landslide.

"By a landslide" has new meaning regarding battles with Skye these days. :)

Jiaying's method of starting a war bothers me. Why waste a Terrigen crystal, which they need and presumably have a limited supply of? She could have had almost anything ready to go if she just wanted to off Gonzalez (or wanted an insurance policy). Maybe it was just Lachman's delivery, but I felt like she really *was* experimenting on Gonzalez, in a "let's see what happens when I pull the wings off of *this* butterfly" kind of way. That makes her just like Whitehall.

[Boundary]

I think the deception, when it come out, will cost Jiaying Skye's affection/loyalty and she'll probably be reprimanded by the Inhuman higher ups. But she should be able to argue her case effectively. Another thing is we don't know if Skye told her about the SHIELD infighting. The reason why Skye came to them in the first place is that they attacked her and tried to kill her at worst, at best they wanted to lock her up. Coulson himself basically told her to hide herself. May warned her about SHIELD before she turned around and joined the company. Coulson not showing up at Afterlife would be a troubling development for Skye but a complete red flag for Jiaying.

[kennyab]

Starting a war is a questionable tactic but so was SHIELD's first act. They could've used Skye as an envoy, to and fro a few times, until the dialogue had built enough trust to meet at a neutral venue or something. Offering "peace" to the Inhumans with big guns parked in their lawn was really asking for it. And it was stupid, these are powered people, no way could they know SHIELD can survive an attack. 

 

This all started because Gordon transported Raina, a known SHIELD enemy and untrustworthy character from before they knew she was an Inhuman, into SHIELD HQ. That doesn't exactly scream, "We just want to be left alone and live in peace." It was inadvertent, as Gordon didn't know they were going, but how could SHIELD not read that as an act of provocation. It was up to the Inhumans at that point to do damage control. They trespassed first, and it's justifiable for SHIELD to want to know why they were there.

 

I don't agree with all of SHIELD's actions in this episode, but they were reacting to a known threat.

Edited May 6, 2015 by kennyab

[Boundary]

This all started because Gordon transported Raina, a known SHIELD enemy and untrustworthy character from before they knew she was an Inhuman, into SHIELD HQ. That doesn't exactly scream, "We just want to be left alone and live in peace." It was inadvertent, as Gordon didn't know they were going, but how could SHIELD not read that as an act of provocation. It was up to the Inhumans at that point to do damage control. They trespassed first, and it's justifiable for SHIELD to want to know why they were there.

 

I don't agree with all of SHIELD's actions in this episode, but they were reacting to a known threat.

 

They chose the wrong option. When SHIELD wanted to attack, its own people including the director and an agent with possibly trustworthy inside info, advised caution. But the Gonzalez faction was incredibly gung ho. It's one thing to want to lock up rogue scientists and powered people resulting from experimental science, it's another to threaten a civilization of powered people you know nothing about, who have alien DNA and for all you know are controlled by the Kree from afar. Is it a possible threat? Absolutely yes, from their POV. But caution is more advisable. Look at who was left behind: Coulson, Fitz, maybe even Hunter are all the possible sympathisers. I actually love Mack's reaction to all this, stay away instead of attacking something you don't understand or even want to understand or trust.

 

Anyway, this whole debate shows how interesting the Civil War arc is going to be. Even on either side, there're varying degrees of agreement. I don't agree with the concept of the Index anyway, like Jiaying said, it just sets us off on a path to unspeakable destruction. Captain America would agree with Jiaying too, besides they've both seen the consequences. But on a more overtly political stance, SHIELD has just discovered HYDRA was a cancer within itself for decades, so they definitely don't yet have the mandate to index and lock up people for their powers. But then again, Hulk's rampage in Africa could've changed the political climate against the enhanced people.

[kitlee625]

Jiaying is definitely the Magneto of the Inhumans, Where they are not wrong with their fear, but go about it the wrong way making them not any better then the people that want to destroy them.

 

 

I'm not saying that it's extremism for her to no cooperate with indexing. I agree with her on that point. But going straight to faking an assassination attempt to start a conflict with SHIELD is extreme. The sane thing to do would be to let Gonzalez know in no uncertain terms that the Afterlife is sovereign and SHIELD has no authority for indexing, not to mention the fact that registration of people who have committed no crimes is just wrong. Find out if he's bluffing, try to get him to back off. She lied to her own people to start a war. If I were an Inhuman and found out what she did, I'd be pissed.

 

Agree completely. She is totally the Magento. I feel her pain, and I understand her pain, but that doesn't mean that I think that her killing Gonzalez and starting a war was right. Also, based on what she told Cal, she does not think that her people trust her and would follow her into a batle, so she's lying to them to get her way. Probably not someone I would trust to be my dictator.

 

This all started because Gordon transported Raina, a known SHIELD enemy and untrustworthy character from before they knew she was an Inhuman, into SHIELD HQ. That doesn't exactly scream, "We just want to be left alone and live in peace." It was inadvertent, as Gordon didn't know they were going, but how could SHIELD not read that as an act of provocation. It was up to the Inhumans at that point to do damage control. They trespassed first, and it's justifiable for SHIELD to want to know why they were there.

 

I don't agree with all of SHIELD's actions in this episode, but they were reacting to a known threat.

 

Yes, SHIELD is wrong, but they just like the Inhumans are reacting to an understandable threat. The show begins with the Inhumans trying to steal an unknown object (some type of weapon) from a military base. Yeah, I'd be worried too if I had an enemy that I couldn't stop from planting bombs or stealing things.

 

Ultimately, I do feel sympathy and understanding and great frustration at both sides. It really seems to highlight that these two sides are going to have problems ever working together going forward. If Jiaying is the Magento side of the Inhumans then there must be a Professor X to be a more moderate view of their side, willing to work with humans on some level. Similarly, I think we can agree that Gonzalez was a super paranoid, prejudiced SHIELD agent, and now that he's dead, there is the chance for someone more moderate to take over. I think they've been setting up Coulson potentially as person who could represent SHIELD's sketchiness and build some bridges with someone less war-happy than Jiaying. I can't imagine them continuing on with a full out war into season 3, and so I assume that there will be some sort of tentative peace. I just wonder who is going to be willing to make that step from the Inhumans side because I really don't see Jiaying stepping back from war for anything.

[xqueenfrostine]

 

Would having Inhumans destroying the jets as they sat outside have been fine ?

 

Actually, yeah that would have been better, because at least that's not something she could have pulled off without participation from her people.  I don't actually have an issue with Jiaying killing Gonzales if everyone had agreed to go on the offense against SHIELD to try to prevent their people from being indexed.  It's the shooting herself and making it look like it was all about her own self defense that I take issue with.   That's cowardly, manipulative and just plain shady. She's started a war with SHIELD that might end up being more disastrous for her people than anything SHIELD would have done to them as part of their normal indexing process, and she did it without their consent and plans to lie to them about how and why the war began.  There is no world in which that's not wrong.

Edited May 6, 2015 by xqueenfrostine

[paigow]

Is it accepted that Gonzales : Inhumans ::  Stryker : Mutants? Characters so repugnant that audience sympathy flows towards Inhumans / Mutants.

Edited May 6, 2015 by paigow

[paigow]

I would love the idea of a female set of Koenigs out there, Triplett's mind would have been blown!

Would they be nerdy like Amy / Bernadette or hot like Penny?

[Boundary]

Hot nerdy, Pennadette?

 

 

 I can't imagine them continuing on with a full out war into season 3, and so I assume that there will be some sort of tentative peace. I just wonder who is going to be willing to make that step from the Inhumans side because I really don't see Jiaying stepping back from war for anything.

 

 

I don't think full war will break out either. If Jiaying is set on this war, Skye, Raina and Lincoln can broker a peace deal but they're not senior enough. Gordon becomes the next natural choice but I think he's way too loyal to Jiaying. Maybe the royals will send in someone new but I'd think that's a season 3 thingy. Since this story is kinda like Skye's turf, I'd think she has to convince her mother to back down and for Coulson to do likewise with May & co. and delay pulling the trigger.

[Sakura12]

I still think the Inhuman Royal Family will send some people to stop Jiaying and prevent the war. Setting them up as the good guys for their eventual movie. 

[Chaos Theory]

The show works better with the possibility of a war breaking out then a full out one. whatever stops a full out war doesn't matter. Maybe it is even a common foe (like the Kree). The tension and the fact that neither side trust each other at all makes for interesting drama.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[xqueenfrostine]

I would actually be surprised if TPTB at Marvel Studios would allow the Royal Family to have a presence in the show even if it's just off screen and through an emissary after all the commentary about how the Marvel TV shows "complicate" things for the movies. I would expect them to tell the show runners to stay away from anything related to what is likely to pop up in the movie, at least until the script for the Inhumans movie is finalized. I mean, what if the screenwriters decide they want their movie to begin with the Royal Family and their Inhuman subjects ensconced on the moon, isolated from what's happening on Earth? They wouldn't want to work around anything the show might have established as MCU canon about the Royal Family's activity here.

[Sakura12]

I just think that because they are kind of making them look bad right now and will want the Inhumans to be the good guys. 

[MDKNIGHT]

"Jiaying being so old she knows that humans like to categorize people and after Whitehall I get her not trusting them not to experiment on them if given the chance. Maybe not Gonzales but others will and SHIELD has shown over and over again they can't control their own people."

Yes. Actually the Nazis in particular were into making lists of people and Skye Mommy has first hand experience with the Nazis. (As did Magneto.) So I don't blame her for her fear and mistrust I just question her method of dealing with it. BTW as a historical fact a doctor in Germany suggested that people would fear homosexuals less (as in people would be less likely to be violent to homosexuals fearing they were all child molestors and otherwise evil) if they were registered so the heterosexuals knew that the authorities knew who they were and were on top of things if there was trouble. By all accounts the guy really thought he was a force for good. Thing is that then the fascists under Hitler came to power and all the lists were used to round up the homosexuals and put them into concentration camps. I could definitely see someone who dealt with the Nazis NEVER wanting to be on anybody's list.

[redfish]

For an organization that's supposedly the best and brightest agents around, they were really dumb or overconfident that they had the advantage. That was a set-up from the start. Not sending in Coulson first already gave them the wrong impression no matter what. They should have realized something was weird when Cal seemed way too agreeable to go with them without a fight or indignation of being taken and those vials don't scream suspicious (hint hint  because it probably is).

[ChelseaNH]

Since a peace offering doesn't really qualify as an "insurance policy," I'm thinking Gonzales had an ace up his sleeve.  (Yes, yes, the left one.)

[JayKay]

It was nice to be surprised about how things ended. I was sure that Skye's mom was going to die again.

[APSimpson]

I thought Skye was incredibly smug in this episode. Her attitude towards May was just awful.I guess her transformation to inhuman is complete since she now seems to feel that she is "better" than plain old humans.

I did not see Jiaying's evil side. Damn, she's cold. Not that I miss Gonzalez. She did Shield a favor there.

May and Coulson need to make up now!

Koening is awesome, as always. 

 

I've never liked how Skye treats May. She's always seemed disrespectful to her for some reason, and I always end up sympathizing with May having to put up with her. And trying to guilt-trip May about Bahrain? Skye should be ashamed of herself. That "child" was a monster who was killing people left and right with a thought. She had to be put down.

 

As for Jiaying, when she earlier said to Cal "we shouldn't lament the past" or something along those lines, I knew she was a cold person. She was willing to just forget about Cal, the man who put her back together (literally) until she realized she could use his protection (against Raina?). I think Jiaying will make for a chilling villain in the finale.

 

Koening calling out his brother for rage-quitting in CoD! Too funny!

 

I think my favorite scene in this episode was the talk that May and Coulson had. Very good acting there. I hope they make up soon because I need my Philinda!

 

I'm not saying that it's extremism for her to no cooperate with indexing. I agree with her on that point. But going straight to faking an assassination attempt to start a conflict with SHIELD is extreme. The sane thing to do would be to let Gonzalez know in no uncertain terms that the Afterlife is sovereign and SHIELD has no authority for indexing, not to mention the fact that registration of people who have committed no crimes is just wrong. Find out if he's bluffing, try to get him to back off. She lied to her own people to start a war. If I were an Inhuman and found out what she did, I'd be pissed.

 

And Jiaying's action is only going to reinforce to Shield that Inhumans are a threat (little girl in Bahrain, Raina). How will they figure out what she did, though? I thought it was odd that they would just let Gonzalez go in alone with no contingency plan. I've been reading some theories that the gift Robert gave to Jiaying could have had a tracking device on it, or the Hula toy Fitz gave to Skye.

 

As far as the Index thing goes, it didn't seem like a big deal in this past episode when they Indexed Lincoln. Coulson asked him about it and Lincoln said it was just a lot of questions. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Shield is just being responsible, and quite frankly, I'm on their side in this mess.

[Suit and Tie]

I wonder how it would have played out if Gonzalez went to meeting unarmed.